outlaw tuning bad
#outlaw
late swallow
jolly geyser
also why cant they just buff it and then revert it abit after if its overboard day after,thinking aura buff wise
late swallow
3 words bro
cinder relic
The spec literally got like 10 buffs in a row on PTR
frail veldt
can you just show them boss damage from the raid?
gaunt phoenix
all i know is i have to bust my ass to compete with people in shitter keys
never happens
drowsy ridge
The response I've been mostly getting is "Every spec will have bad fights and things that they aren't good at. Maybe Outlaw isn't good in Raid, but it may be good in keys/etc..."
vivid vessel
its the worse rogue spec in keys by far
like not even close
miles
and its unplayable in raid
hm hm
drowsy ridge
I pointed that out too
And I'm given examples like "What about Survival in Amirdrasil?"
wicked obsidian
outlaw is great in low keys because we blast before they even can cast. maybe thats our role
frail veldt
the only environment outlaw does well in is easy content haha
copper radish
When outlaw buffs
drowsy ridge
The other Rogue in the guild, who is a Sub main, gets it. Its the others who are mostly not fully getting how awful things are. It also doesn't help that a lot of my initial complaints before learning/understanding the real issues were about RtB and the gamba. Which I was wrong about
gaunt phoenix
tbf KIR 1FTH legit does have gamba issues
jolly geyser
also sub players shouldnt talk about tuning when they are mostly the best dmg spec,due to scaling(sometimes)
drowsy ridge
I also hit KiR, but that's a different issue
copper radish
1 FTH wouldn’t be so bad if they just reversed DF season 1 nerf to it
drowsy ridge
Oh, the Rogue is the one who knows how bad a state we're in
He isn't the one arguing that we should be fine
glass anvil
are there any twitch streamer I could watch whilst i'm gearing my rogue?
frail veldt
1 FTH wouldn’t be so bad if they just reversed DF season 1 nerf to it
what nerf was that
I had a streak of 12 SS without a proc the other day on a boss fight
jolly geyser
aye
copper radish
what nerf was that
Pretty sure FTH used to hit 1 or 2 more times
frail veldt
0.0000033
gaunt phoenix
its 0.65^12 for the chance of it not happening
gaunt phoenix
huge
drowsy ridge
Gamba
gaunt phoenix
frail veldt
LOL
jolly geyser
good spec
gaunt phoenix
of course that was a prog kill
frail veldt
Gamba
if outlaw was gamba we should be able to highroll dps
but we cant
we can only lowroll
jolly geyser
gamba should be gamba
gaunt phoenix
you can def highroll
frail veldt
I mean barely
did they fix frost dks highroll thing?
or are they still giga high roll randomly
craggy quiver
This hurts my soul
gaunt phoenix
they exchanged it with marksman
frail veldt
hahaha
I have some hunter friends complaining about that
everytime they lose in overall
theyre like "bad rng"
jolly geyser
theyre like "bad rng"
gaunt phoenix
Yes
frail veldt
over deft?
craggy quiver
Yes sorry that lol
frail veldt
its 0.8%
late swallow
love this
frail veldt
right?
stiff vector
frail veldt
soh could be more fun
late swallow
gaunt phoenix
this is the one section of the fight i didnt have SNC active
frail veldt
thats way better highroll chance
glass anvil
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
gaunt phoenix
its 0.8%
No it's better
with rule adjustments
but they are pending
so for now you dick around
and pretend it is better
and it's fun
so
frail veldt
ah i thought thats what tobfon posted yesterday with the rule adjustments
sick
so its def worth
anything >1% is worrrrth
frail veldt
the fb rule adjustments are big yeah
craggy quiver
Not try trickster yet
frail veldt
I thought they were specific to fb though
I personally dont like overcomplicated rtb rules but I'll take any amount of dps I can get this season hahaha
craggy quiver
There's logs in raid playing trick soh ld
gaunt phoenix
well these rules are about to be cursed
frail veldt
they seemed a lil cursed
is it worse than the quick snippet tobfon posted like a day ish ago?
gaunt phoenix
Not unless it depends on specific buffs or number of buffs
craggy quiver
Nice
frail veldt
pls no
jolly geyser
so the gs/bte macro works for that shit or?
cinder haven
ah i thought thats what tobfon posted yesterday with the rule adjustments
That's just proposals, you can try of course but the actual apl/faq will probably be different
frail veldt
fasho
but even at a minimum it seems like with simple(ish) rules soh is a gain
so might as well start messing with it
gaunt phoenix
maybe trickster it will just break even idk
cinder haven
I could never get it much better than that
gaunt phoenix
it feels kinda meme cause it is clearly the 7% five buff chance that is helping it
craggy quiver
Tob needs to hit 6m sim
cinder haven
20% more fun
gaunt phoenix
what if we did comprehensive roll testing to see if sleight does what they say it does
cinder haven
Soh with these rules trigger container bugs more than the other rules with only ld
gaunt phoenix
i mean it's true
cinder haven
So maybe it undersims a bit
frail veldt
LD + SoH is so scuffed
gaunt phoenix
if you roll more often
you are more likely to hit the CTO bug thing
I just wish LD+Sleight didnt cancel each other out
in half your rolls
frail veldt
that would be great
gaunt phoenix
more than half
gaunt phoenix
We could roll a 3rd buff that is lower in duration or something
if just 3 buffs is too strong
anyway im gonna send sleight on heroic tonight and get 100s
easy
tight kernel
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6CBFBFqBHp2Hg2RcbNySYj
wild socket week, prob stats. Wish I could quick sim and not wait 10 hours atm
frail veldt
I got myth chest piece or myth pacemaker
I feel like i want myth chest
fuck pacemaker
drowsy ridge
I'm between H Prism and H Antenna
gaunt phoenix
Yes
tight kernel
yeah
frail veldt
ez
gaunt phoenix
i've been cucked getting chests to drop
buoyant cosmos
I got myth tier gloves or hero pants to replace my champ ones.
Priory trinket or myth chest I don't need from M+
gaunt phoenix
and say fuck raidbots
you get another spark
frail veldt
I got myth tier gloves or hero pants to replace my champ ones.
def gloves
oh
wait
nvm our gloves suck
rip
gaunt phoenix
maybe some crafted combination will help neck
jolly geyser
Im gonna craft either wrists or gloves,yeye gloves cba
buoyant cosmos
I have 4/6 hero halls gloves atm, dumping a weeks worth of crests into our off piece might not be the move
Im almost tempted to go sub for raid though
law on King and Dim feels troll
tight kernel
ah true. Hopefully raidbot fixes its servers before cause I cant be waiting 1hr per sim lol
I was just hoping to slam gilded this week into trinket and myth tier
vernal pawn
Is gloves a good craft slot?
buoyant cosmos
prolly fixed for eu,all that matters
Once again, NA bleeds so EU may live
tight kernel
I wouldnt tbh, theres good gloves out there
double craft ring is prob the angle
but idk sim it
vernal pawn
Gotcha
buoyant cosmos
Is gloves a good craft slot?
Halls gloves are perfect for us, rings and belt are our theoretical bis crafts according to fuu's sims/sheet
jolly geyser
Once again, NA bleeds so EU may live
atleast you got bbq and 24/7 booze stores and uuh
buoyant cosmos
atleast you got bbq and 24/7 booze stores and uuh
national parks, idk
frail veldt
not all of the US has 24/7 alcohol
lots of states dont sell it past a certain hour
or dont sell it on sunday
buoyant cosmos
There are entire states where you can buy booze on sundays iirc
frail veldt
yep
jolly geyser
There are entire states where you can buy booze on sundays iirc
certain %?
buoyant cosmos
period
jolly geyser
oh
frail veldt
you can buy beer and stuff
frail veldt
you cant buy anything considered "liquor"
jolly geyser
I once ate a burger in a gas station at 6 in the morning,felt weird
frail veldt
lolol
theyre too proud to admit it
man if california seceded
it would be a wild thing to see
fathom carbon
Is rushing an offhand for outlaw wasted spark comared to going for example: Ring+wrist ?
frail veldt
Is rushing an offhand for outlaw wasted spark comared to going for example: Ring...
can be yeah
buoyant cosmos
Is rushing an offhand for outlaw wasted spark comared to going for example: Ring...
you can use the vendor cudgel
frail veldt
esp since a hero track offhand is pretty easy to farm
buoyant cosmos
if you play a lot of M+
fathom carbon
I only play m+ 🙂
buoyant cosmos
You still anti cudgel as of yesterday Mewo?
frail veldt
so you can actually get a dagger drop
jolly geyser
what they said, I switch to hero oh for bosses I got highest ilvl cudgel
fathom carbon
That s2 champion track cudgel still better than hero track offhands s3?
frail veldt
I think maybe the sims underrepresent how often packs dwindle down to like 2-3 mobs
jolly geyser
ye kinda cba some keys also mewo ngl
frail veldt
That s2 champion track cudgel still better than hero track offhands s3?
no
the adventurer cudgel from this season can in theory beat hero track offhand over 6 targets
buoyant cosmos
That s2 champion track cudgel still better than hero track offhands s3?
you can buy a S3 veteran one with the weekly quest gear token
frail veldt
and the veteran one beats myth over 6 targets as well
frail veldt
you can buy a S3 veteran one with the weekly quest gear token
nah
fathom carbon
you can buy a S3 veteran one with the weekly quest gear token
ooooh
frail veldt
other way around
you can only get veteran from rng drop once per week
I thought
and it was adventurer that you can buy
buoyant cosmos
you can only get veteran from rng drop once per week
Oh right
I forgot about adventurer ranked gear
jolly geyser
finish the event is the weekly quest
fathom carbon
That said, since i pug. Aint it legit ''bis'' to just get a higher ilvl offhand in order to get invite? Guess i could swap once i get into groups :p
gaunt phoenix
it uses your bag ilvl anyway
fathom carbon
But, farm offhand. Craft embelishment wrist+Ring is fair yh ?
buoyant cosmos
no one is inspecting you
fathom carbon
it uses your bag ilvl anyway
Neat, did not know that 😄
buoyant cosmos
Lowets damage on the first pull in Halls "common rogue things"
bro it's like 15 mobs?
fathom carbon
Aint it always like that. We look shit on the BL first pulls but normaly top the overall :p ?
jolly geyser
ye
frail veldt
outlaw rogue eww
I mean theres a good chacne they played with some very not pog outlaws
I dont know if outlaw has a similar rep to mage
vivid vessel
@fathom bramble crazy part is that sub is better at padding soulbdinder than us i just realized how crazy this spec is
normal forge
What can I do to stop being afraid to die on big pulls on flood?
Everytime my dps sucks there
buoyant cosmos
idk if it's even that deep
buoyant cosmos
What can I do to stop being afraid to die on big pulls on flood?
Everytime my ...
feint more
frail veldt
What can I do to stop being afraid to die on big pulls on flood?
Everytime my ...
camera top down
and yeah feint more
buoyant cosmos
Stack on the tank
frail veldt
dont panic
jolly geyser
I mean theres a good chacne they played with some very not pog outlaws
im not perfect like some zac (mail me 10k gold) but I do fine
buoyant cosmos
so the blades are in the same place
random obsidian
you can evade the robots that spin
frail veldt
yep that too
jolly geyser
and 10k gold irl I mean
random obsidian
they're usually annoying to deal with as melee
buoyant cosmos
thankfully the keys I've been doing people are hard stunning he wind-ups
idr if blind works on them because they're mechs
random obsidian
doesnt work
noticed that if i play with casters they never spend a gcd to stun them
melees usually do it cuz they want to be able to play
frail veldt
noticed that if i play with casters they never spend a gcd to stun them
why would they
also the spin has a smaller range than melee
buoyant cosmos
It's not a mechanic they ever deal with
frail veldt
so you can kite them
buoyant cosmos
they probably don't even know about it
buoyant cosmos
and hit them
just bring back acro
jolly geyser
do a key with a melee with ranged alt
buoyant cosmos
I had a DH tank that only played with his ret friend in melee and kept the mobs inside beam slicer
because his friend can just DPS outside of melee
random obsidian
so you can kite them
easier said than done tbf
not a big deal since we can just evade tho
stuck magnet
How does the damage on Killing Spree work?
Is it just hitting one target with every hit that is then working with BF? Or does it do AOE
buoyant cosmos
I think it hits your target and BF cleaves
stuck magnet
It is just one target and it works with BF right?
buoyant cosmos
I remember zac saying it looks like AOE but is a ST ability
fathom carbon
Says ''random enemies'' on the spell
stuck magnet
They should just make that uncapped AOE ez fix
fathom carbon
Nah, rogues cant have stuff
Not even smoke bomb in pve :p
DH's need that
´Just rename it darkness...
stuck magnet
You mean Outlaw rogues can't have that stuff lol
fathom carbon
😄
buoyant cosmos
I was playing FDK last night and getting annoyed
Oh I can help the party with utility, how novel
grim spear
Is there any addon that lets you switch gear sets, with cloak’s fiber?
fathom carbon
I lowkey feel like an MVP using crippling poison in HoA and/or Gambit 😄
fathom carbon
Is there any addon that lets you switch gear sets, with cloak’s fiber?
Exist in vanilla in game ui ?
timid idol
i play any other rogue spec
holy shit this class is so insanely boring without outlaw
grim spear
Exist in vanilla in game ui ?
nope
fathom carbon
I thought equipment manneger was in blizzards own ui 😮
Or wait, perhaps it does not swap fiber.
Guess it's an ElvUI thing then?
grim spear
got to swap the fiber manually, which is annoying
normal forge
got to swap the fiber manually, which is annoying
Fiber and belt thingy
hybrid crown
Maybe narcissus has a thing for swapping them around
I don't swap mine all that often so IDC that much about it
normal forge
Is there a way to see which class spec do best boss DMG on m+?
frail veldt
not really
since you can pull ads onto bosses
it would kinda corrupt any data you could try to parse
fathom bramble
<@101843879791177728> crazy part is that sub is better at padding soulbdinder th...
it wouldn't surprised me, outlaw just does it for free with PC without doing anything strange
I would imagine that sub can specifically plan to pad and do a ton
proven ocean
<@101843879791177728> crazy part is that sub is better at padding soulbdinder th...
Cd lines up very well ofcourse
random void
anyone have good plater profile for outlaw?
proven ocean
Its normal for sub to be op on adds that live for 20-30 sec
cinder haven
On the topic of funnel it seems that trickster loses about 300k st in 8t, and FB loses 500k
gaunt phoenix
percentages?
proven ocean
Seems good value if it does way more st
proven ocean
Ye trickster is troll then
gaunt phoenix
fatebound is somehow more annoying in keys than trickster now
proven ocean
We’ll probably see alot of more fb keys going on
cinder haven
Percentages is about 10% for FB and 6% for trickster
proven ocean
fatebound is somehow more annoying in keys than trickster now
I dont think its annoying personally
I still dislike ks
gaunt phoenix
feel like i have to devote constant brain power to saving ghostly strike for restealths
strong halo
fatebound is somehow more annoying in keys than trickster now
Did something change
keen belfry
On the topic of funnel it seems that trickster loses about 300k st in 8t, and FB...
how king
proven ocean
feel like i have to devote constant brain power to saving ghostly strike for res...
Maybe u can bind it to vanish and forget about it or
U just press it in opener
gaunt phoenix
vanish yeah but you still try to open with it
cinder haven
Partly due to KS
Ill dig into where the rest goes
For FB its the stupid anti funnel hero talent obviously
gaunt phoenix
trinkets?
cinder haven
Trickster is more surprising
keen belfry
does sigil lose funnel in aoe
cinder haven
Trinkets could be
gaunt phoenix
it can proc on a different target
gaunt phoenix
it procs on 1 target
in aoe, that is not guaranteed to be your main target every time
cinder haven
Hmm, there is no separate report for damage breakdown on prio target
Still, FB does about 8% more prio damage on 8t
drowsy ridge
Are sims still weird for Outlaw?
gaunt phoenix
how so?
cinder haven
I dont think so?
drowsy ridge
I'm checking my vault, and Antenna is simming lower then Soulbreaker's Sigil
gaunt phoenix
that's normal, soulbreaker is technically the best single target trinket
cinder haven
Miss chance config?
real gulch
there anything written up on how to gear for both ass and outlaw, kinda dont want to recraft/regem/reenchant everything
keen belfry
Still, FB does about 8% more prio damage on 8t
thats a fair amount, hm
cinder haven
Ah ye if both are hc then sigil wins
real gulch
or is it a sim everything and pick the middle
keen belfry
but 8% of low prio number at cost of how much aoe?
cinder haven
About the same %
keen belfry
hey luckily we do low aoe too!
cedar kernel
Once i memory about the pain and the tough things our team suffering these days i can't sleep
cinder haven
Or well, 7% or so now it seems
copper radish
I wonder if we will be flipping coins all of midnight too or if trickster will be good
cinder haven
Trickster will be higher overall for sure still in keys
Now i mean
No clue about midnight
cedar kernel
Yea Bc we don't know what will come like kir delete? Or which one is the changed apEX talent
Focus on the recent things i think trickster need a st buff
copper radish
Focus on the recent things i think trickster need a st buff
Since season 1 it’s needed some work 😭
chilly dagger
As fatebound i sim around 3-4% worse on aoe/dslice but I think like 13% better st. I find it a lot easier to not drop AR as fatebound in keys so usually end up overalling better and almost carrying boss dam
cedar kernel
I can tell like in most keys pure st, trickster outlaw can only beat Marksman or arm for phys team
glass mortar
U should sim it at 8t and see how it compares 
cedar kernel
Others are tough
drowsy ridge
So, in theory, I should take the H Soulbreakers over the H Prisim or Antenna?
fathom bramble
you might want to do your weekly delve map first just in case
but yes H soulbreaker is stronger than H prism or antenna
cedar kernel
Brothers idk i take off the idol and using egg and claw
drowsy ridge
I did do the map, didn't pay attention to what I got until you just said that. It was in fact a H Sigil
cinder haven
Haha
cedar kernel
Idol is too weird for me in overall dmg, idk if i didnt use it correctly
fathom bramble
easy free trinket
cedar kernel
when i use idol my overall is very low
late swallow
Once i memory about the pain and the tough things our team suffering these days ...
Gm bac
late swallow
cedar kernel
Super not sleeper
late swallow
I’m worried about your health brother bac
cinder haven
Bac sleep schedule would be interesting to see
cedar kernel
I sleep by medicine
Idk Bc i took it and it didn't work, i just feel cringe. Like seeing my score stopped to up
I just want to see a tuning
copper radish
Idk Bc i took it and it didn't work, i just feel cringe. Like seeing my score st...
Bro took sleep medicine and isn’t sleeping? You must be hallucinating something good lol
cedar kernel
There showing "we found outlaws performance has a little bit bad so we decide to give it a 20% buff"
cinder haven
I thought we decided that it was a good thing for us if tuning is delayed
copper radish
I just want to see a tuning
Inb4 tuning is a hallucination 😂
cinder haven
Although we are already bottom on boss damage
late swallow
@keen belfry the type of guy to say "age before beauty" with a smirk while holding the door open for his friend
copper radish
Calling it now they don’t do shit with outlaw until midnight pre patch
slate forge
Tuning requires they know outlaw exists
cedar kernel
Mate i have bipolar so if i don't took medicine to clam down that will be hallucination mate fr
cinder haven
The tuning is done by ai anyway im sure
late swallow
grok is this true
slate forge
Ai wouldn’t have fucked the ks rework this hard
copper radish
The tuning is done by ai anyway im sure
Just like their damn reporting bots. Someone mass reported “Vancleef” my character name and I had to rename cause it was “inappropriate”…. Damn AI blizz uses sucks
cinder haven
I have zero faith in ai to get anything right tbh
cedar kernel
I still don't know the reason why ks rework is bad, is it number or just the cd they nerfed?
Or not the target i want
slate forge
You have time to watch a movie and do various other activities during its 10 second duration on a high apm spec
copper radish
I still don't know the reason why ks rework is bad, is it number or just the cd ...
The fact that it AOEs is what’s shit about it
cinder haven
Half right, but wrong in the most cursed way possible
copper radish
Trickster should reduced KS cooldown by like 80%
cedar kernel
yea i get it
drowsy ridge
It should be AoE with BF up only, and it should swap to a different target if the main one dies during the duration
Like it used to
cedar kernel
The cooldown things
fathom bramble
doubling KS CD and bringing forth no compensation for trickster
cedar kernel
Broke the unseen blade and the cdr
slate forge
I want my wrists to bleed not this my little pony baby as shit ks is now
cedar kernel
Fair
fathom bramble
the trickster adjustments just never came when I think most people expected them after the KS CD change
latent belfry
the trickster adjustments just never came when I think most people expected them...
Outlaw Changes not coming on time ? Whhhhhhhhh color me surprised
copper radish
Either reduce KS cooldown more for trickster or have unseen blades gives X % chance to reset KS cooldown
glass mortar
It's just not iterated on at all
vivid vessel
its embarassing
glass mortar
The iteration they did was doubling its cd (realz himself suggested they were gunna try that night 1), then buffed 50 times
And its still shit xd
fathom bramble
also make KS count as a combo point generating ability
late swallow
haste cap increase when?
fathom bramble
since it generates combo points now
cinder haven
No
glass mortar
Was that not In the first iteration we got?
Thought that was in new kspree from night 1
gaunt phoenix
that would give it 50% crit damage
cinder haven
Then we have to take heavy hitter
copper radish
that would give it 50% crit damage
That would be incredible time to go cold blood
cinder haven
I dont wanna
cedar kernel
I tried the original ptr ks. I can sure if blizz didn't nerf the CD. It will be rly good, when i think about the nerf, i thought it just some kind of delaying our cd and not that much hurt, but zac remind me of the unseen blade made me realize the reason why trickster for outlaw is bad rn
cinder haven
How would we even take CB?
cinder haven
Drop SC i guess
gaunt phoenix
in midnight when we get an extra class point
cedar kernel
Less unseen blade less cdr just for a skill that isn't easy to die
fathom bramble
in midnight we get the 3 more points it would take to grab coldblood
vivid vessel
in midnight when we get an extra class point
i hope we finally can go vigor
since they wont ever fix outlaw energy
fathom bramble
or you could go Leeching vigor vigor
vivid vessel
maybe +3 talent fixes it
gaunt phoenix
i wonder if we will have the most underwhelming +3 class points
late swallow
vigor KiR would honestly go dummy
split grove
How much dps loss is it to take lethality / vigor over supercharger ?
cedar kernel
Wait we are not taking the 2 points on the top of CB and one crit posion?(or another talent i forgot
vivid vessel
im in adr
late swallow
it would
vivid vessel
5 buffs
fathom bramble
idk my guild was talking about it the other day and no one could name another class that just took more damage nodes
late swallow
instead of 11 SS in a row, we can have 20 SS in a row
vivid vessel
?
late swallow
latent belfry
instead of 11 SS in a row, we can have 20 SS in a row
Amazing
latent belfry
Think ima take a break from wow until midnight 💀
cinder haven
Maybe raise base opp chance back
late swallow
FTH one point node I beg
fathom bramble
I want them to set audacity % at something reasonable and disconnect it from FTH reliance
cinder haven
Don’t think it helps that much
late swallow
please bro
fathom bramble
for the cursed 0fth ho kir potential
cedar kernel
cinder haven
FB has higher chance tho!
cedar kernel
I love bb longtime ago now i hate it
If they buff fth back to the 10.0
Will it be better
cinder haven
They also nerfed fatal flourish
keen belfry
<@177964030474977281> the type of guy to say "age before beauty" with a smirk wh...
you know me
cedar kernel
they did it?
fathom bramble
I don't think they've ever touched like actual base energy regen
vivid vessel
they nerfed base energy regen, max energy, ff
vivid vessel
they did cause we had vigor as a baseline when df came out
cinder haven
And tight spender
cedar kernel
That was long time ago
cinder haven
Almost like they want energy to matter
cedar kernel
But will it be better if they buff ps again for 1 more cp
fathom bramble
pistol shot needs to be weaker than SS in order for an energy mattering outlaw to actually be fun to play
vivid vessel
i dont want ps to be weakrer than ss im ngl
fathom bramble
energy mattering just means starving in a FTH world
vivid vessel
in df it wasnt htat interesting
its much more fun to just use your procs
and i think fth made ps interesting enough
good talent
(should be 3 stacks baseline)
9
you get me
like 1 fth
cinder haven
Ye
cedar kernel
They just nerfed 1 cp for each shot iirc, i will be happy if they give us back to this
fathom bramble
its much more fun to just use your procs
I would also us rather stay in a world where energy doesn't matter too much and we just use PS procs to deal damage
cinder haven
Infinite duration too please
fathom bramble
but if they try to make energy matter without giving us something to actually do differently at different energy amounts
then it just becomes starving
cedar kernel
Duo mode outlaw
vivid vessel
im fine with energy not mattering
if there is a way to simplify outlaw
that no one will care about
its that
cinder haven
If energy has to matter then they have to completely rework adr i think
Idk, maybe they can invent a new resource
I understand the temptation to make energy matter
cinder haven
Idk
fathom holly
only thing i personally want is saber slash back
fathom bramble
AR felt fine for years when energy did matter
vivid vessel
idk
i like not having this weird
you do no damage outside of adr and adr can drop 40% of the times
cedar kernel
I mean just delete energy for outlaw and add something like rune energy? Making each finisher has more effect when casting some amount of the energy?
drowsy ridge
I'm still annoyed about Vanish being a DPS cooldown, at least for Solo content
vivid vessel
like old outlaw was so bad at doing damage on stuffs like
add swpas
and shit
cause you could just turn off
when you werent in adr
at least now you can hold vnaish
and have perma adr
drowsy ridge
Still better then when Combo Points were on the target, and swapping targets was impossible, or when we had Redirect. But that was in the dark ages of Combat
fathom bramble
if only we had 2 charges of AR
vivid vessel
cedar kernel
If we have 2 charges, i could accept the buff uptime reduce to 10-12s
Uh how does the original uptime of adr?
20 or 24
vivid vessel
dont think it changed
but we didnt have uuh etc
in df it was from 40 to 60%
deopending on builds
fathom bramble
it did change at one point right
vivid vessel
before my time maybe
fathom bramble
when they nerfed it to 50% energy regen
cedar kernel
Oh yea
fathom bramble
I think it was 12 seconds back then
cedar kernel
But we don't have adr atm we still could do good dmg i think
fathom bramble
that was when they started to move energy out of AR
and let us play the game at all times
cedar kernel
Not like the things we experience rn, losing adr = become a dummy
Very sad in dawnbreaker
Or died
fathom bramble
also I hate new alacrity
you die and then it takes potentially forever to stack it back up
and it can just fall off randomly in normal play
cedar kernel
The penalty for us is too hard but we can't get enough bounty we want when we did great:sigh
keen belfry
im doing soh loaded dice keys rn
cedar kernel
We keep adr in 100% uptime just to be a normal dmg maker compare to others
keen belfry
trickster
slate forge
You rolling if no bs?
glass anvil
so how much does your rotation actually change based on what you roll?
cinder haven
broadside changes it a fair bit
royal ermine
Maybe raise base opp chance back
Never forget that opp got nerfed because blizzard was too lazy to give us a real tier set in amir so they nerfed the baseline and never compensated for it
cinder haven
with the advanced rules at least
royal ermine
love that shit right there
glass anvil
with the advanced rules at least
what's that?
cinder haven
what's that?
if you haven't looked at the #outlaw-faq yet, that's a very good place to start
cinder haven
love that shit right there
yeah, was a sad day
I tested double jeopardy a little bit now
it seems that you can't wait forever
suspect it times out when the subterfuge times out
stuck sparrow
practice
royal ermine
opp back to 45% alone would fix so many fucking issues not even including potentially touching potency and flourish
urban sun
Trying to get better at rogue and like the guides here, have helped me a lot, but a question I have.
Is there any reason to not use AR when AR is up?
I notice I have started holding vanish when AR has a few seconds left and it is already of CD, to pop it as soon as the first one runs out. Should I still send vanish if it is close to 2 stacks or having the rolling bonus and use AR while AR is already up?
cinder haven
read faq, hit dummies, read faq, hit dummies etc
stuck sparrow
outlaw's one of those specs tbh
where you just need to put in time
as well as read obvs
cinder haven
Trying to get better at rogue and like the guides here, have helped me a lot, bu...
depends on what hero talents you are using currently
usually we send vanish if about to cap on stacks (say 15 sec away from capping), if and ONLY if ADR is up
we never really vanish without adr up
well technically I guess you can if fight will end before you get adr back
using ADR with ADR already up is also common
for fatebound you lose a lot of dps if you don't
trickster can hold it a bit more
quaint mauve
i do it on trickster for the points
if i know there’s no like
forced rp
usually in subterfuge when i want more btes
cinder haven
it's especially nice in subt yeah
quaint mauve
is there something on zacs wa group that tells you loaded dice is up?
i can’t seem to
see
urban sun
Ahh okay, thanks I usually use default m+ and raid specs
quaint mauve
Ahh okay, thanks I usually use default m+ and raid specs
it depends more on the hero talent
cinder haven
if you are using fatebound it's a bit more tricky
quaint mauve
fate bound wants to hold adr bc of the 6 coins thing
cinder haven
then you kinda need to read the rotation guide
quaint mauve
you wanna use it with gs using the macro
cinder haven
you want to send adr together with vanish and gs preferably
urban sun
Ahh okay *(netered a m+ just as I asked... dumb timing from me xD)
cinder haven
dw
quaint mauve
yk last time i raided
i wasn’t playing fb properly
and i parsed pretty alright
so today
we fix all my parses
glass anvil
only send vanish on ADR so we can blast bte?
quaint mauve
you send vanishes to extend adr
and your crackshot windows feel like shit without adr up
bc the gcd
actually no
i’m wrong
cinder haven
I mean the basics are that we want to maximize adrenaline rush uptime
and since underhanded upper hand makes subterfuge pause adrenaline rush we only vanish when adr is up
then there's a lot of shenanigans on top of that for when to actually use adrenaline rush if the buff is already up
but that's more advanced stuff
if you are learning, the most important thing is to keep adrenaline rush up
glass anvil
yeah i'm just trying to get more than 1m overall in dungeons atm
cinder haven
you can vanish on cd more or less as long as adr is up
quaint mauve
keen belfry
man i feel bad for tob
cinder haven
well unless you are already in subterfuge/stealth of course
quaint mauve
you can vanish on cd more or less as long as adr is up
keeping in mind your KS and coups
:p
keen belfry
he knows that lol
quaint mauve
i know tob knows
cinder haven
I don't think it was for my benefit 😄
keen belfry
dumbing down outlaw rogue is super challenging tbf
glass anvil
outside of vanish, how can we extend adrenaline rush?
keen belfry
thats it sir
glass anvil
ah gotcha
cinder haven
the #outlaw-faq simple rotation makes a great job imo
quaint mauve
dumbing down outlaw rogue is super challenging tbf
i mean yall managed to dumb it down for me :p
i still remember the day mewo called a fat slobbering donkey when i said i had 60% adr
keen belfry
yeah my advice is always just go thru faq and start building blocks you understand
cinder haven
read simple rotation in #outlaw-faq, practise on dummies, read it again, practise more
when you feel like you know that, move on to advanced section
quaint mauve
the rotation its self isn’t the worst thing ever
keen belfry
man what even would be your roadmap for outlaw, probs starting with just builder priority + vanish when AR up? holy this spec is actually cooked
quaint mauve
i feel like tracking everything else is what’s hard
cinder haven
idk, is it that hard?
slate forge
Get used to .8 second gcd and lower spell queue window
buoyant cosmos
man what even would be your roadmap for outlaw, probs starting with just builder...
for a lot of people it seems to be finishing at 6/7 not 5 lol
glass anvil
okay, i read it and it's a bit more clear now, one more thing tho, do we only use KiR on 4 buffs?
cinder haven
roll the bones rules are a bit hard
quaint mauve
yeah
buoyant cosmos
okay, i read it and it's a bit more clear now, one more thing tho, do we only us...
99% of the time yeah
quaint mauve
and coup fucks me up sometimes
glass anvil
aight
slate forge
okay, i read it and it's a bit more clear now, one more thing tho, do we only us...
For starting that is fine
buoyant cosmos
theres a 3 buff that you can use it on but it's not really worth thinking about right now
quaint mauve
bc there’s certain times where i coup and i get it back after one ss bc i like don’t track it for a second after i use it
and end up vanishing on coup
cinder haven
yup
quaint mauve
cinder haven
also on steroids sometimes, but oh well
quaint mauve
The rogue community is super chill lmao
we haven’t had our daily dose of stimulants yet
mandatory for outlaw btw
mighty pivot
proud ether
!gear
ornate heathBOT
quaint mauve
i can’t tell what’s considered aoe or not
like if it’s hitting everyone how is it not aoe
what is the reason i have raidbot premium if i dont have priority sims when it matters
stable pivot
Just a quick question to anyone that can answer - are sims screwed for outlaw, or are we really that bad in m+ at the moment? I'm doing 95% of my ST sim and getting stomped on bosses, and roughly 90-95% AoE sim and getting stomped in packs
eager rose
Guuys, we have Versa cap?
covert kestrel
Just a quick question to anyone that can answer - are sims screwed for outlaw, o...
sim isnt a "this is how much damage you should do", its for comparing gear and talents
lot more factors than just how much % of sim damage you do
stable pivot
I understand that, what I meant to say is I seem to be performing decently in regards to sims, but I consistently fall way behind on meters
lofty sand
if i crafted a ring with the free runed enchant its not worth to upgrade it to 720, its more dmg just to wait for a myth item next week and upgrade that item right
covert kestrel
I understand that, what I meant to say is I seem to be performing decently in re...
depends on what key youre doing, what comp you have, how your tank pulls etc, im just saying i wouldnt use the "im performing decently in regards to sim" as a metric of playing well, and even if you are there are more factors
stable pivot
Of course, was just wondering is all 🙂
gaunt phoenix
outlaw is well implemented in simc
in keys, our ST is fine but prone to rng
on packs, we dont burst, so we are kind of a marathon spec
will lose to softcapped specs bursting down certain packs
gaunt phoenix
Idk what they are doing
The community cares about tuning
this is how you appease your players
even if you give the baby specs 3% damage
the community thinks you are at least listening
vivid vessel
urban sun
dw
Out of the dungeon and managed to read and thanks for the tips and pointers!
I manage around just over 5 mil overall so should step into the advanced rotation but the simple sounds so... simple to use 😁
vivid vessel
you dawg
gaunt phoenix
wtf\
copper radish
Hit up some chat GPT it’ll clean that up
gaunt phoenix
chat gpt will invent APL rules soon
actions.st+=/starsurge,if=eclipse.in_any&(buff.oneths_clear_vision.up|buff.kindred_empowerment_energize.up|buff.ca_inc.up&(!covenant.kyrian|cooldown.empower_bond.remains>5|buff.ca_inc.remains<gcd.max*floor(astral_power%variable.ss_cost))&(!covenant.venthyr|buff.ravenous_frenzy.remains<gcd.max*ceil((astral_power+40*talent.fury_of_elune.enabled)%variable.ss_cost)+3*talent.new_moon.enabled&!runeforge.sinful_hysteria&buff.ravenous_frenzy.up|buff.ravenous_frenzy_sinful_hysteria.up|(buff.ravenous_frenzy.remains<action.starfire.execute_time&spell_haste<0.4|buff.ravenous_frenzy.remains<action.wrath.execute_time|buff.primordial_arcanic_pulsar.value>=210&(astral_power>variable.ss_cost*2-5|buff.ravenous_frenzy.remains>2)&buff.ravenous_frenzy.remains<6|variable.iqd_condition&cooldown.inscrutable_quantum_device.ready&equipped.inscrutable_quantum_device)&buff.ravenous_frenzy.up|!buff.ravenous_frenzy.up&!cooldown.ravenous_frenzy.ready)|variable.asp_dump|fight_remains<gcd.max*ceil(astral_power%variable.ss_cost))
like this
cast starsurge when true
random stirrup
indigo token
quaint sable
Cursed stone idol is good ye
ripe ibex
```actions.st+=/starsurge,if=eclipse.in_any&(buff.oneths_clear_vision.up|buff.ki...
pretty sure the whole boomkin apl is chatgpt
no joke
quaint sable
its either idol or hero chest to myth chest
red zinc
willow portal
its either idol or hero chest to myth chest
chest big
quaint sable
Chest sims better by 7k dps but I guess Im taking Idol
red zinc
That diffy is not that big and chests have way more chances to drop than a singular trinket
quaint sable
u right
red zinc
i think its one of the best trinkets for aoe so should be aight
quaint sable
Might not do sub tank dmg first pull gambit/halls/flood
frigid owl
!log
willow portal
Chest sims better by 7k dps but I guess Im taking Idol
i had idol option and didnt take it
idol annoying imo
took a socket here this/last week
quaint sable
Fair, but I atleast wanna try it
willow portal
hey if you want to play it then its fine
quaint sable
If I was myth raiding and thus had more chance to get myth trinkets from raid I would have probs taken chest
willow portal
for me i was considering it because its rare but its not sth i wanted to use
quaint sable
Cause in raid it is useless
quaint sable
It didnt for me
champ antena/sigl was better than fully upg myth idol
At least the channel isnt grieftorch lvls bad
willow portal
well look at mister big loot over here having antenna
vivid vessel
```actions.st+=/starsurge,if=eclipse.in_any&(buff.oneths_clear_vision.up|buff.ki...
maybe its the same thing as us
like we have 10 vanish lines
they decided to have one only
quaint sable
well look at mister big loot over here having antenna
Its champ track antena tho
willow portal
Its champ track antena tho
who upgrades above 704 anyway
quaint sable
fr
cloud plinth
When are people using tempered pots? Lust? Vanish? KIR?
slate forge
We ever sim nelf pots feel like I’d rather have the safety net for my ar then .1% tempered pot
willow portal
We ever sim nelf pots feel like I’d rather have the safety net for my ar then ....
werent they kinda bugged ?
sullen wyvern
@fathom bramble how did you get that parse in heroic loom?
you must've had the best RNG on earth
slate forge
werent they kinda bugged ?
Same bug as nelf no?
frail veldt
<:basegcat:1107701282577334292>
sounds like they would like darksouls
0 rotational complexity
all memorizing mechanics
like a platformer essentially
or a rythm game
fathom bramble
<@101843879791177728> how did you get that parse in heroic loom?
I honestly don’t remember
Idk what my loom parse even is
frail veldt
do loom parses log damage to tangles?
fathom bramble
Only the ones that actually die I think
Idk I don’t hit them anyway on heroic
Ranged job
frail veldt
tru
sullen wyvern
I honestly don’t remember
insane parse you got mate, that delve trinket you got, is it that good?
fathom bramble
It is
It performs way above its ilvl and a champ one is basically free
Just gotta unlock the vendor
sullen wyvern
Will do, thanks
does it simm good or does it undersimm?
is it only ST? tooltip looks like it good in dungeon
gaunt phoenix
Its st favored
The vers proc is okay i guess
It sims correctly more or less
In dslice
Or droute
sullen wyvern
I usually avoid delves but
imma work on it this week
ineed lvl 3 in the delve journal right?
Does the vendor appear inside the delve? As I read it looks like I need to do delve 9
jaunty notch
Do we send unyielding prism on CD with vanish or should I let it build up stacks before sending it with vanish?
fathom bramble
Does the vendor appear inside the delve? As I read it looks like I need to do de...
Yeah
sullen wyvern
aight thanks
drowsy ridge
You can also get lucky with your Delver's Bounty map and get it Heroic
fathom bramble
He won’t always have the trinket i stock
There’s a 5 day rotation with the trinket on 2 of the days
sullen wyvern
oh ok got it
formal echo
Should i go to icy-veins for pvp guides or is there any outlaw pvp guide here that i have missed?
formal echo
yeah i saw that one
inner sky
is it just me, or is the Guy Afenar edit not show Overchagred CP's
wintry solar
Should i go to icy-veins for pvp guides or is there any outlaw pvp guide here th...
There are no pvp guides for outlaw that are worth anything
formal echo
There are no pvp guides for outlaw that are worth anything
Guess its learn by doing then
wintry solar
The pvp channel has every you'll need to start
formal echo
Ahh, it has pins. Havent noticed that before
glass mortar
the trick to heroic loom is having several caries or idiots die off shortly before the damage amp phase so it gets extended
glass mortar
its doing half the damage of his transmitter
in his moth kill anyway
that fight does favor transmitter tho so
it did less damage then his embellishment
do u get the stat buff on patchwerk?
the trinket reads like you shouldnt
cinder haven
looks very strange
vivid vessel
if i was outlaw on dimensius
copper owl
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
fathom bramble
gg
vivid vessel
we barely have dps to pass the platform
and sub is omega topping
we sometimes dont have the dps
outlaw would do legit 1/3 of the damage i do as sub
fathom bramble
it doesnt look so good in patchwerk anyway
it's often near my mythic sigil so idk
just don't lowroll ig
cloud plinth
outlaw would do legit 1/3 of the damage i do as sub
Because AR is an anti-cooldown. They need to just....ah who am I kidding, they'll never get it. Too many damn fights with phases or mount mechanics that just stuff outlaw into the dirt.
drowsy ridge
I mostly fixed my haste! I'm down to 20.9%
vivid vessel
it would be harder
but not impossible
like on nexus king
you would do less damage on platform but it wouldnt be impossible
less boss damage cause damage amp
but it woud be alright
boss dies still
but this one bro idk
idk how you can make it work with current tuning
fathom bramble
maybe they buff trickster and nerf platforms before I get there
I'm still holding out cope while I gear and practice sub anyway
glass mortar
tindral
fathom bramble
that fight had absurd downtime and we needed damage for the barriers
for me it felt like I had to play sub
cloud plinth
The way AR is designed is just dumb when they add forced downtime.
fathom bramble
need 2 charges so bad
cloud plinth
Yeah, or bake it in and give us an actual cooldown.
vivid vessel
what about on the last dragonriding boss
well no
cause
you were jkust doing lower boss damage
boss would be longer
nothing that make it impossible
here the dps requirement is so high
fathom bramble
Yeah, or bake it in and give us an actual cooldown.
even though it brings infinite weaknesses a lot of players enjoy flat damage and actions always mattering though
vivid vessel
both on the big add and on cleave
fathom bramble
generic CD class tends to bring nothing mattering except the 12-20 seconds you are in your cds
vivid vessel
2 things sub prolly does 2/3 times more damage than outlaw, and we still wipe to damage with everyone alive
cloud plinth
even though it brings infinite weaknesses a lot of players enjoy flat damage and...
I don't have a problem with being throughput rather than having damage windows, aside from the fact that it suffers so horribly due to particularities of fight design that are completely avoidable (by developers).
frail veldt
is vers food better than main stat food for us now?
fathom bramble
yes
I think the best fixes will always be to give us tools to deal with downtime instead of taking away our profile
we already have 2 rogue specs that are generic boring cd specs
fathom bramble
I'm not sure the differential between adr and no adr is that much higher
other than the fact that you will never vanish if AR is not active
vivid vessel
as kir ?
you cant even press spells
out of adr
it for sure is way different than before
im almost certain in sl out of adr we were gcd capped
fathom bramble
I mean you are almost gcd capped without ADR at 19% haste with alacrity up as kir 2fth
cloud plinth
not being able to vanish means no resets, so you're relying exclusively on passive energy regen to build CP and it feels like you're doing 1/3 dps
fathom bramble
AR was probably a larger difference in SL when it gave 8% damage on top of the current effects
at the time that we ran that legendary at least
vivid vessel
I mean you are almost gcd capped without ADR at 19% haste with alacrity up as ki...
nah no way
for like 5s maybe
glass mortar
no shot u were tuned around like 50-60% adr uptime back then where ur tuned around 100% now
adr increases the actions u cast by 20%
the gap in damage between no adr and adr phase should be much larger now
but of course it wouldnt make sense if it wasnt ur designed to have it all the time
its hard to compare
glass mortar
do both coward
keen belfry
myth helm could use some ilvl
fathom bramble
putting a bunch of cancelauras in the apl only dropped ADR uptime to 11% since I didn't do it thoroughly but
keen belfry
but also, just craft wrists so i can have 2 emebllys no
stiff vector
ye im prob just gonna craft wrists, got a myth dagger so might as well just craft bracers this week
stiff vector
but I do have some avoidance wrists I could catalyze but...also have some avoidance pieces I wanna cata too
glass mortar
that weapon is high mastery
glass mortar
but the rest is a bit poop
silent flint
Super quick question, is there somewhere that shows when we replace delve belt for outlaw?
gaunt phoenix
hero track belt is about the same, so mythic track will beat it
fathom bramble
I found a better way to do it
3919k dps compared to the normal 5377k of this profile
silent flint
ty!
fathom bramble
90% of no AR feeling slow is losing the faster gcd
and/or losing our other energy sources at the same time
because doing this does actually make it significantly lower APM
but it's just losing the faster gcd, not actually being far below the energy demand you can have
glass mortar
if u throttle adr and energy like that does it fuck with the PS/SS rules abit
like if it constantly reaches the condition to SS but doesnt have the energy and can PS, will it just PS at bad times
i honestly dont know
it might be losing more damage then it should
vivid vessel
are u here man?
ye whats up cuh
vivid vessel
ye