outlaw

[fathom bramble]

and fix FB aoe

[gaunt phoenix]

[cinder relic]

I think FB and Trickster tier sets can just be made baseline

(And also make FB make GS free)

[white marten]

Lmfao solo

[gaunt phoenix]

i don't love the bugged macro stuff

[cinder relic]

Yeah that stuff is obviously bad

[gaunt phoenix]

Surely they devote time to fix that

[fathom bramble]

I think it's fun gameplay

but obviously that gameplay should probably come in the form of an intended mechanic

[random stirrup]

its so weird to get used to playing with perma tricks, then play fb or some other dps spec and die to aggro

i always think why is aggro still a mechanic

feels so outdated and they just keep buffing tank threat whenever its an issue

idk

[gaunt phoenix]

ye idk

[stuck sparrow]

same reason parry still exist

[random stirrup]

yeah trickster not having to deal with parry or threat is just insane qol

[vivid vessel]

i mean vanish gs is enough

and thts not bugged

[fathom bramble]

I was actually just thinking that

that the gameplay would be mostly preserved with no bugs anyway

[vivid vessel]

y

like the vanish adr gs

idk

kinda yuck

and the vanish gs bte

kinda disgusting

so

[fathom bramble]

idk I kinda like lining up all 3

[gaunt phoenix]

it looks like there will be a little more effort to line up all 3

that i didnt really test correctly the first time

[fathom bramble]

I was forcing the line up a lot when it felt like it made sense

as long as you can GS on CD they line up close enough on every AR

in theeory

but I have made no apl for actually testing it

it just felt right

[cinder relic]

Trickster is literally infinite QOL its kinda funny

Fb 2 grapple is nice but rarely actually needed

[fathom bramble]

reading this as I quad grapple through a delve

smh

[cinder relic]

LOL literally though

[dawn tundra]

Hey, which Outlaw Talent builds are best for Heroic Raiding?

[gaunt phoenix]

it depends on boss a bit, but we are mostly pure single target Fatebound

soul hunters i would go trickster, maybe araz or soulbinder

maybe depends on your raid a bit

[random stirrup]

imagine outlaw had this talent (but also while mounted) for AR

[dawn tundra]

I do Heroic pugs, so...

[random stirrup]

and also make it 45s for dimensius

[vivid vessel]

its crazy to me they got that

[gaunt phoenix]

wtf

is that talent

[vivid vessel]

and not us

[stuck sparrow]

UUH is like half the reason i dont mount in dungeons

as outlaw

[gaunt phoenix]

The technology exists

[stuck sparrow]

[random stirrup]

fun fact it also works on slows

my spriest is walking into orbs and slows on fights

to extend his voidform

[gaunt phoenix]

lmao

[vivid vessel]

ok well

thats degenerate

[fathom bramble]

that's a bug

loss of control is not slows

[random stirrup]

ye that part shouldnt work probably, but the rest outlaw should have

[stuck sparrow]

i guess coding

[random stirrup]

and the technology does indeed exist

[stuck sparrow]

mixes up slows and roots

maybe because some slows can be upgraded into roots

like monk disable

[fathom bramble]

do roots count as a loss of control?

[stuck sparrow]

yes

generally

you can pvp trinket out of a root

even if thats demon behavior

[fathom bramble]

pretty sure pvp trinket says both

the automatic one just says loss of control

and idk if it triggers on roots or not

[stuck sparrow]

monk disable the root would remove cc protections

iirc

[random stirrup]

Very well could not be all slows

I know for sure it works on the soulbinder orb that slows you a small amount

[dawn tundra]

Which varient of a Single Target and Cleave for Outlaw would be best for Heroic raiding? Or does it really depend on personal preference? I want to be sure I do as much DPS as possible.

[cinder relic]

faq and wowhead have very generalist builds

and fight specific builds

[gaunt phoenix]

i told you, almost every boss is fatebound single target

but for soulbinder, araz, and soul hunters, the "parsing" build will be trickster 1FTH

Aka the standard M+ build

but for araz and soulbinder, precise cuts is perhaps kinda fake dps

it is legit just for parsing

[hollow coyote]

Alright guess ill give outlaw a go again

Im told outlaw is real hard to play but i still wanna play it lol

[gaunt phoenix]

You need to track coup stacks and when unseen blade is guaranteed

[hollow coyote]

So for outlaw whats the go to poisons in pve?

[daring oxide]

NA, is there no tuning from blizzard tonight?

[cinder relic]

labor day

[daring oxide]

ahhhhhhhhh

makes sense

then i guess friday?

[glass mortar]

instant

[cinder relic]

If theres any tuningt his week, it'll be legit right as it goes out probs

[daring oxide]

suppose so

[cinder relic]

But also I don't expect anything to actually get changed honestly lol

Ofc outlaw sucks but

[daring oxide]

I just assumed it'd be this week looking at the same trends in undermine (end of 3rd week) and same for first tier (end of 3rd week)

[cinder relic]

I dont think anything is actually overtuned

the raid needs no nerfs either

[daring oxide]

nah i dont think raid needs any tuning tbh

and not really expecting nerfs either, probably just bringing up other classes up

[hollow coyote]

Just instant?

[glass mortar]

whatever utility u need

numbing/atrophic/crip (rarely)

[daring oxide]

nexus king p1 is so fun

[glass mortar]

there isnt a "right" one u pick based on what u want it to do

[daring oxide]

just feels intense

[glass mortar]

atrophic is rarely a bad choice

[daring oxide]

i found crip with the extra talent really good

for forgeweaver

i used it and it makes the balls crawl

[past fossil]

So, I have a random question. If I have a bunch of combo points, is it better to use blade flurry and overcap by a ton, or send an ability then flurry then ability again? 🤔

[glass mortar]

if BF ever falls off u refresh it asap immediatly regardless of if its gen

if bf is already up tho the only reason ur pressing it is for cp

so u dont wanna massively overcap from it

dont press it at like finisher cp

[past fossil]

So if it's not up it's better to just waste all the CP

Got it, thanks

[ocean lodge]

I think friday.

[glass mortar]

yes

assuming ur in aoe of course

[ocean lodge]

They didn't this week because holiday or whatever, it's probably Friday though.

[past fossil]

Yeah

[glass mortar]

it increases the damage of every button u press like 4X so its always top prio to get it back up if its fallen off

[past fossil]

And then I have another question. Is it at all worth it to push blade flurry in single target? It does like 2.5x the damage of sinister, or are all the procs and stuff on sinister worth more?

[glass mortar]

no u dont press it ST

unless ur preparing for aoe ahead of time and cast it as a mega low prio thing to get up early, its never worth pressing in st

[past fossil]

Kk, ty

[hollow coyote]

i mean im just running delves rn

[long barn]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[indigo token]

of course not

i mean we're already doing so well this tier, this expansion

[cinder relic]

Well part of the issue is that the WCL stats page is really good at showing bad information

and Outlaw doesn't look terrible """On average"""

Even though it obviously is weak

[drowsy ridge]

Numbers don't lie, but they can be deceiving

[cinder relic]

Like lol

I do think this tier is fairly balanced, dps wise

[indigo token]

ask any of those outlaws how it feels to play

the thing with WoW's balance is that dps wise its fine

its just everything else thats sketchy

[cinder relic]

huh

[indigo token]

Defensives, Utility, Class and Spec feel on certain fights, movements

etc

[cinder relic]

I dont get what ur getting at

[indigo token]

What you just said, that WCL is really good at showing bad information

in my eyes, it's because it only shows dps

[cinder relic]

Well it shows bad DPS is more my point

[indigo token]

bad dps?

[cinder relic]

I don't think anybody who raids mythic would say outlaw is the best spec in riad

but WCL says it is

[fathom bramble]

bad dps as in damage that is useless or otherwise doesn't meaningfully improve the likelyhood of the boss dying

[indigo token]

i never got that

like i remember zac saying that "oh you pad on araz adds"

but doesnt that make the orbs die faster

making the fight easier

[cinder relic]

yeah but sub can do it in a more efficient way, generally speaking

[mild vigil]

It’s contextual based on what your raid needs

[fathom bramble]

in the case of araz it bloats how good you can look a lot more than it is helping the encounter

which is usually the case for adds on any fight

[indigo token]

SUB ROGUE!!!!
I shake my fist in rage at sub

[fathom bramble]

and then soulbinder it's just shear useless damage on the broken cannisters

[indigo token]

I will say

very satisfying on soulbinder when the adds charge you

and you just

[fathom bramble]

and then we are just actually good on soul hunters

[indigo token]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

yeah cause soul hunters is consistent cleave

I can't think of any other fight that has that

[fathom bramble]

last 2 aren't even on the warcraftlogs overall yet so we will fall tremendously when they start influencing outlaw on the stats

[indigo token]

wait

[fathom bramble]

last 2 on mythic*

[indigo token]

outlaw hasnt even beaten salad bar or dim?

[cinder relic]

Bro theres like 10 guidls who have killed either

[indigo token]

ok thats fiar

fair

[fathom bramble]

there's a lot of specs missing from public salad logs lol

[indigo token]

feels like its been ages since the race

[indigo token]

but just last night instant dollars cleared

[cinder relic]

Bro

the tier below WF is fairly large

just on time commitment, and comp flexability

[indigo token]

yeah

dude

i inted so hard on plexus

i had wound poison on

ill never live that down

[fathom bramble]

you'll never get that 0.7% dps back

[drowsy ridge]

We all have that WoW story we'll never live down

[gaunt phoenix]

what if wound poison affected shields

[lime lake]

then it would be shield poison

[indigo token]

imagine we get unat 2 next tier

unat having fun this tier

also we're getting old hillsbrad foothills next season

ion told me himself

[cinder relic]

Next raid balancing will be interesting

On how hard they will be with staggered releases

[indigo token]

i mean the last one was bfa right

how was that

[lime lake]

[cinder relic]

WEll it was different back then

Cuz that was like a .5 patch having a mini raid

[fathom bramble]

I hope they release somewhat close and it's not like an entire 2nd prog 8 weeks later

[cinder relic]

This is like "This will be a smaller raid tier, with staggered releases"

[cinder relic]

I hope its exactly what you don't want

[indigo token]

uh

[cinder relic]

I want uunat lol

[indigo token]

correct me if im wrong

[cinder relic]

Just without the spec requirements

[indigo token]

but wasnt it uldir, dazar and then unat

[fathom bramble]

uunat was very interesting for me

[late swallow]

i think there's a correlation between foreverguy's enjoyment of the patch and his activeness in here

[cinder relic]

Uldir and dazar were different patches

[late swallow]

glad you're enjoying the content, mr. guy

[indigo token]

god

i cant believe they got rid of tier sets

IMAGINE HOW FUCKING COOL DAZAR'ALOR TIER SETS WOULD LOOK

[fathom bramble]

I would like them to once again get rid of tier sets

[glass mortar]

we woulda been a dino

what dino would we have been

[indigo token]

I hope you get your ankles tied to the back of a horse and dragged through the desert

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

[fathom bramble]

okay

[late swallow]

[indigo token]

like this

[late swallow]

i like tier sets

bring back reforging though

[fathom bramble]

I don't like having 4 slots just locked...

[late swallow]

[glass mortar]

tier sets r for the better i think

[indigo token]

I think you only feel it so much this expansion cause of the catch up gear

[fathom bramble]

move tierset bonuses to something else

[glass mortar]

they let them experiment more freely with talent esque ideas

[late swallow]

tier sets + reforging, @fathom bramble thoughts?

[glass mortar]

to bake in at later dates

[indigo token]

like

[glass mortar]

it does make gearing suffer a bit yea

[fathom bramble]

I have felt this since before the first removal of tier

and have felt it since they brought it back

[glass mortar]

at least they made it piss easy to aquire tho

[cinder relic]

Sub is genuinely the most fun rogue has been in a long time, and its OP

and I love these last 2 bosses

Dimensius is a real treat

[indigo token]

dim is cool

[late swallow]

wish I could play this tier

[indigo token]

i just wish I could enjoy it more

i like most of salad bar

but I really dislike after you drop stars and you're just dragged

feels bad

[fathom bramble]

this version of sub is the least fun one I've needed to learn

maybe it's better than wod actually

[indigo token]

what was combat rogue like in wod

[late swallow]

sub wod was truly cursed

especially the HFC tier

[indigo token]

yeah cause everyone unsubbed

https://tenor.com/view/ome-om-flight-flightreacts-ome44-gif-13101437609979598143

[fathom bramble]

imagine current outlaw but you have no PS, AR uptime is like 20% and you have no real procs of any kind to interact with

also vanish does nothing

[late swallow]

BRF + HFC were goated raids

[fathom bramble]

so you don't press that either

[glass mortar]

u press SS until u can evis alot

[fathom bramble]

you also run out of energy

[glass mortar]

and sometimes SS procs and u get 2 cp

yea

[indigo token]

hellfire assault

imagine instancing into manaforge and the first boss is fract

no fract is just easy

uhhh

hmm

[glass mortar]

hfc was great

the first boss was a trash pull

freest shit

[indigo token]

ive said this so many times

the best cloth mog in the game is in HFC

[glass mortar]

i think that was the first tier i ever pugged mythic

i was still a lowly hc raider back then

[indigo token]

Felfume Raiment

LFR Warlock mog

shit goes bonkers

[late swallow]

i think BRF might be my fav raid in the game

[late swallow]

so many cool, unique fights

[indigo token]

LOOK AT THIS SHIT

anyways

as someone who started in DFS3

fave raid is LOU

[late swallow]

DFS3 was when I started playing outlaw

[indigo token]

i started in TWWS2

and it hit so hard

[late swallow]

perfect class

[indigo token]

i did it cause frost mage felt like dog ass in TWW S2

[late swallow]

i played rogue in cata, mop, and wod, but I skipped out on legion for uni

and then we were DK gaming in BFA

skipped SL too

insane how wow just comes back into your life once in a while

[cinder relic]

I've played perma since antorus

[indigo token]

damn you just plunged right into ass

[cinder relic]

rogue that is

started in legion

[indigo token]

i will say

i am NOT looking forward to grinding M+ in legion remix

like :omgbruh:

[late swallow]

like :omgbruh:

[fathom bramble]

don't get fomo'd into doing something you are going to hate lol

[late swallow]

yeah I think they'll tweak legion remix a bit

if it's going live in its current state, people will complain about it

[indigo token]

https://tenor.com/view/squid-game-oh-my-god-bruh-saleswoman-oh-my-god-bruh-gif-2398788864743270124

[late swallow]

and then they'll change it after a week or two

they legit had a perfect formula with mop remix after the first 3-4 weeks

they have the chance to just drop an ez banger transmog+mount fest legion remix by doing the same thing

but they're seething about retention numbers and making it a grindfest

[quaint mauve]

i need that cloak

[glass mortar]

theyll just timegate it

the later u start the grind the faster it will be

just do it if u find it fun but u dont need to grind like crazy

[late swallow]

i just want my shackled urzul so bad bruh

[glass mortar]

im just using it as a ez way to level my finaly slot to 80

gunna play a dracthyr warlock and racial mount around

[late swallow]

we should remix together when it comes out

[glass mortar]

[fathom bramble]

can't wait for the new midnight race to free us all from playing tauren/dwarf

[late swallow]

will it?

[glass mortar]

yea stoneform vs magical healy thorns

[late swallow]

is the racial good or something

[fathom bramble]

their damage racial is critical strike damage

[cinder relic]

I didnt do mop remix cuz I was on vacation at the time of its launch so it felt weird to join in late

[glass mortar]

healy thorns no difs

[cinder relic]

so excited to try remix

[glass mortar]

[cinder relic]

And its gonna have housing shit too

[fathom bramble]

assuming it is the same 2% offered by dwarf and tauren it will be good for us

and tied for most dps

[glass mortar]

unfortunate that dwarf doesnt only have dps

[late swallow]

it's basically a nelf model right?

[fathom bramble]

also extra damage to abberations will randomly make it really good on some boss I'm sure

[glass mortar]

delete stoneform

[late swallow]

it's like a nelf/nightborne?

[glass mortar]

give me stoneform potion

elf troll

[cinder relic]

They are trolls arent they

[late swallow]

ya but the in game character model

[cinder relic]

Ya they are troll esk

[late swallow]

like the skeleton they use for it is nelf I think?

[cinder relic]

arent they

Somebody post a pic

[late swallow]

kinda getting nelf vibes ngl

[fathom bramble]

isn't fire mage trapped in dwarf/tauren mode too

or something

[cinder relic]

They look cool

I love the nelf hair options with the leafs and shit in em

So, first global I'm rerolling

[glass mortar]

i mean if u care enough about racials to go for 2% crit just for max dps ur trolling abit if ur a tauren no

stoneform is

[fathom bramble]

of course this wowhead article just says racials unknown

[late swallow]

i feel like mogs will look good on these mfs

certainly better than dwarf/tauren

[fathom bramble]

and hunting down the interview where they said what the racials were planned to be sounds like a nightmare

[glass mortar]

it was 2% crit damage, damage to or reduced from abjurations idr, and a active that spawns roots that damage enemies and heal allies

which sounded like neat flavor but

if u have 2% crit already it probably does like 2 damage

[fathom bramble]

doubt it will be worth the gcd for us

like ever

[glass mortar]

yea

the heal allies is compelling but again if its a flavor racial its probably like 5% hp over 10 seconds type stuff

[fathom bramble]

I also don't think they said what the crit damage % was

[glass mortar]

no but like

[fathom bramble]

if they troll us it could be 1% critical strike damage

[glass mortar]

i mean they wouldnt just say "its 5%" or some random shit

[fathom bramble]

and the thorns are the other half

[glass mortar]

that would be hilarious

yea that would just be worse

since thorns is already worse then stoneform just by function even if it roots all targets and heals a bunch of allies and damages enemies

it would need to be tuned to be like ldf racial if they wanted it to be worth a gcd

even vulpera racial isnt

[cinder relic]

I doubt its 1%

Warstomp and stoneform are already inherently better

But the fact my character wont be ugly is a huge boon

AND i can be horde OR alliance

(our guild has alliance requirements for housing)

[sudden fulcrum]

looking good is an increase in dps

[cinder relic]

Literally

[random stirrup]

is it not cross faction

[cinder relic]

I hated being tauren for raz

[fathom bramble]

why raz specifically?

[glass mortar]

sparks i assume

[cinder relic]

Yeh

[fathom bramble]

right

I forgot we stomped those I was just already tauren for dps

[cinder relic]

and then dwarf for fyrak

Itll be nice to be the best DPS racial and then actually look good

[cinder relic]

How could neighbour hoods be cross faction?

did they say smthing about that

[fathom bramble]

if only there was some kind of spot maybe a panel uploaded to youtube that just had all the info in one place to watch

[cinder relic]

Literally though

I kinda liked the staggered releases of info

TO keep me hooked for the week rather than being blasted with all info right away

but the fact that it was on like, 10 differnt streams and shit was mega annoying

Or at least make 1, big post at the end thatis like

"this week in TWW gamescon" on the main channel going over literally everything

[fathom bramble]

1 big post with links and searchable transcripts

alpha opening is the real announcement

we can find out what everything actually is

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-laugh-rub-hands-patrick-star-evil-plan-gif-15072939

[indigo token]

the information rollout for midnight has been horribkle

[waxen acorn]

you can't be serious lol

[fathom bramble]

it's not a completely outlandish opinion

in theory it builds more hype and has time for fun speculation

[waxen acorn]

gamescom did one thing

confirm that blizzcon is actually good

[fathom bramble]

it just needed to have an actually good way to deliver the info

[waxen acorn]

a 5+ day information rollout was bad

caused a lot of confusion

[fathom bramble]

I don't think the bulk of the confusion came from the 5+ day rollout

[waxen acorn]

not to mention information being in places that you would never see them

[fathom bramble]

it came from delivering info via random interviews

and a handful of scattered panels

[waxen acorn]

(world of warcraft youtube shorts)

[cinder relic]

Yer

It also gives more, in theory, more time for each individual system to be like

"heres a full day to talk about housing"

[fathom bramble]

I've had fun with announcements that run much longer than this

[cinder relic]

rather than "heres a 2 hour event to talk about everything"

[fathom bramble]

and gave perhaps less info even

[waxen acorn]

except this is not what happened

[fathom bramble]

they just had the announcements in a place I could reasonably find them

[cinder relic]

So if you read what I typed

Lets try reading it together

Lets break it down

[waxen acorn]

and blizzcon has similar things

[cinder relic]

"I liked the staggered release of info"

Followed by the important part of the sentance

"BUT THE FACT THAT IT WAS ON LIKE, 10 DIFFERENT STREAMS AND SHIT WAS MEGA ANNOYING"

The execution this year was bad

I literally said this

[random stirrup]

Idk everything is cross faction nowadays

Including guilds

I would think guild neighborhood is but I don’t remember them saying anything for sure

[waxen acorn]

Maybe if they didn't try rolling out the information over 5+ days they would have been able to include that in a singular panel

[fathom bramble]

ty wowhead

[random stirrup]

So you just need a horde/ally character to build the house

Then send all your dudes to live in it

[cinder relic]

Oh Okay

thats sick then

[fathom bramble]

but we will all be haranir anyway so you can just be whatever

it'll be awesome

[ocean lodge]

Is there some way to game unforseen blade that I'm missing

I feel like I'm playing the actual rotation fairly well with crackshot, KS and such, but my numbers don't reflect it. But my trinkets are kinda ass. only in M+, too, so I assume I'm screwing something up for trickster.

[tranquil folio]

use the unseen blade tracker weak aura

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[gaunt phoenix]

We track when UB is guaranteed so you can prio SS

And then track EB so if you are at 2 stacks you wait a moment for a potential tier proc

For the coups, send them at low CPs if you otherwise have to press SS

[fair tapir]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[gaunt phoenix]

That's kind of it for trickster stuffs

You try to vanish within a few seconds after the coups but this is actually not a big deal

Ngl half my vanishes in keys are vibe vanishes

[tranquil folio]

someone earlier tonight posted a picture of what to look for with the weak aura to know when to start prioing coup unless adrenaline rush will fall off then go ahead and vanish

[gaunt phoenix]

I feel like i Vanish based on mob count or buff count more

[grim spear]

can we just macro vanish into gs as fatebound?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes but thats not the only time you press gs

[grim spear]

I know

[gaunt phoenix]

So you still have to be able to press it normally

I macro vanish AR GS

cuz you will only vanish with GS or both

[grim spear]

according to the APL, the only condition for pressing gs not after vanish is when vanish is at 0 charges?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah

[grim spear]

so I guess just use the macro to replace both vanish and gs is ok?

[torpid fiber]

There are rare practical situations where you want to vanish but not gs

If there's a downtime section you can maintain stealth for, for example

idr if there's actually any this season though

[grim spear]

then I could just turn around

and press vanish

[gaunt phoenix]

Just replace vanish and hit gs when you need to hit gs

[grim spear]

ok

ty

[ocean lodge]

Do I sit on it if I end up having it during a stealth window?

[glass mortar]

only if u have a vanish charge off cd

[gaunt phoenix]

The first coup yes

[ocean lodge]

I have it proc when adren is at 0s occasionally, and just vanished to preserve it.

[gaunt phoenix]

The second coup i have no idea

[glass mortar]

oh misread

[frail veldt]

is this a known bug? Like how is this hitting me so far away

happened twice lol its hitbox is just like 50% larger than the actual model file

[gaunt phoenix]

Just dawnbreaker things

[fathom bramble]

it appears that the boat is moving in this clip

I'm just going to assume that's what is causing it

[frail veldt]

cna they delete this dungeon already

genuinelly

its objectively bad

[torpid fiber]

dawnbreaker doesn't work u just have to grapple to other side there tbh

[frail veldt]

im a priest

[fathom bramble]

why

[frail veldt]

weekly 10s with some friends

[torpid fiber]

oh that's a class selection issue

[hardy thicket]

[frail veldt]

im like

SO far from it

[ocean lodge]

can I just say dawnbreaker first boss is the fucking worst

I hate tanking it, I hate dpsing it

[marble meteor]

me: gets aoe trinkets, thinks woo Ill do better in m+ etc.
<raidbots says nah your ST trinkets do better>
me: oh yeah! ill test on the cleave dummies!
<cleave dummies dps matches raidbots prediction>
me: ...

[gritty hamlet]

I hate this trinket so much why is it in the pool lol.

[lone spear]

im on 2hrs sleep and this almost broke my brain

i hope you're happy

[late swallow]

Get some rest king

[lone spear]

university beckons

https://tenor.com/view/coraline-dad-gif-typing-gif-18806780

[late swallow]

What’s your paper about

I remember the all nighter benders at the library

[lone spear]

not paper, coding

[late swallow]

Throwing together my research

[late swallow]

[lone spear]

networking specifically

configuring routers and switches and shit

[tender breach]

in mythics we switch the nightfall mace on bosses cause it doesnt proc on them. For mini bosses like the lutenants in priory or the mob beforelast boss in halls the nightfall mace works?

[marble meteor]

mini bosses dont keep you in combat

[pure folio]

Yes it works on minibosses

[somber plank]

When I take the gate to the final boss, my stealth is canceled. Is there a way to prevent that?

Is this something that only Outlaw experience?

[late swallow]

no way to avoid it unfort

[late swallow]

i think it's only outlaw atm, since we run subterfuge

some weird interaction with subt

[somber plank]

subt problem?

[keen belfry]

@cinder oxide your boy doesnt like me man

[somber plank]

So, do Assassination and Subtlety Rogues not get their stealth canceled

?

[quaint mauve]

i need to do one more 10

but i’m in bed

i have a huge io upgrade in my bags

but i’m in bed

i need answers

what do i do

[fathom bramble]

you must wake up

turn on your computer

and do a key

[quaint mauve]

good answer loktark

[jolly geyser]

[cinder haven]

Sleep is important though, so do the key while sleeping

[quaint mauve]

2 zyns and a white monster are what i really need

so i can perform on this key

[fathom bramble]

caffiene is integral to playing outlaw effectively

[cinder haven]

Especially for a weekly 10

[jolly geyser]

Got 2 left to do

[fathom bramble]

don't forget your 8 delves

[brisk meadow]

Transition to eu for 1 more day

[quaint mauve]

i rather get executed by a cartel

than do 8 delves

past week 1

[fathom bramble]

what if you get the good trinket though

[jolly geyser]

Think I did 8 cause I wanted brann to hit lvl 100

[cinder haven]

Is there even a good trinket?

[fathom bramble]

yeah

the shadow damage over 10 seconds proc one

[quaint mauve]

for ST yeah

[fathom bramble]

almost as good as a myth trinket on ST if you get a hero one

[jolly geyser]

Can get lucky and get it with a map

[fathom bramble]

true

you'll also be able to buy it from the vendor in the .5 patch turboboost stuff

[cinder haven]

Soul breaker?

[fathom bramble]

I think

it has sigil in the name

[cinder haven]

Soulbreaker's sigil ye

[fathom bramble]

just some random damage proc trinket being insane for outlaw nothing to see here

[cinder haven]

But it's about the same as warpclaw and pacemaker on hc I think?

Little bit better maybe

[fathom bramble]

it should beat warpclaw pretty easily

unless you mean for keys

[jolly geyser]

Isnt it a st trinket

[fathom bramble]

is the vers buff on soulbreaker's sigil even in simc 🤔

[jolly geyser]

Thats when I use it

[quaint mauve]

if this key goes well

ill go to sleep

if it doesnt

[cinder haven]

Requires on kill effect right? Almost certainly not in sims

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[quaint mauve]

im drowning my sorrows

this key matters

[cinder haven]

I tried that trinket a bit in keys

[fathom bramble]

the dot has pretty large uptime so I feel like the vers would be up somewhat often

often enough to matter at least

[ripe ibex]

why r u up so late

[cinder haven]

Had like 15-20% uptime on the buff iirc

[ripe ibex]

no class in the morning???!

[cinder haven]

Why sleep when you can do a thorium mining run in winterspring

[jolly geyser]

Hmm what to craft tomorrow

[willow portal]

It sims better for me so i wear it

I also have it on in my logs from yesterday

[fathom bramble]

I've been wearing my champion one the entire tier

very good trinket

[willow portal]

I tried getting it from the vendor but i got it from the chest when the vendor was scamming me again

[quaint mauve]

the key broke

my healer has no hands

gg

me when i die to a dispell with feint and evasion running

[stiff vector]

god blizzard nuking the specs prio dam feels so bad in halls

[fluid meadow]

when the random back dmg is 2mill above your main finisher ability dmg, soo fine

[stiff vector]

once I get prism think I might have to go full time sub for keys if im gonna be pugging

[cinder haven]

I wonder if we can align on use stat trinkets with vanish now as FB

Probably

Variable CD on use stat should be pretty good

If it's crit or vers or agi

Feels like FB is much more bursty then outlaw has otherwise been in a long time

[vivid vessel]

https://www.twitch.tv/zac__________________/clip/AgitatedTransparentPepperoniCoolStoryBob-tRusAvyX_WUt4S-V I ask myself why this dungeon came back everyday bro

[cinder haven]

Looks like netherprism already aligns with vanish

But something like priory signet doesn't

[quaint mauve]

yk ill take it for literally just getting outve bed to do the key

[cinder haven]

Hope it pays off in the vault

[vivid vessel]

I'm getting 717 prism in vault tob

[quaint mauve]

it better...

if it doesnt

[fathom bramble]

same

[quaint mauve]

@fathom bramble is getting incinerated

[vivid vessel]

Really??

That's insane bro

[cinder haven]

I wonder how much better prism is with the new apl

[vivid vessel]

Mine will be in the middle slot

[cinder haven]

It's surely better right?

[vivid vessel]

It's already better

[grim spear]

[fathom bramble]

well I got sat on 1 boss on the reclear so mine better not be in the last slot

[vivid vessel]

Idk why I'm not playing it

[cinder haven]

Yeah but even more with more cd aligning

[vivid vessel]

[cinder haven]

Idk if you should only send with the big align tho

Probably

[stiff vector]

prism in my vault too, then ill be set on both sub trinkets for sub prison

[vivid vessel]

This week vault is scary, with saladar loot pool added (litteraly piss items), I only have a 60% chance of getting an item I want

[stiff vector]

cuz this spec does nothing

[vivid vessel]

Maybe I should open as outlaw actually

[fathom bramble]

yeah

was about to say

2 dagger 1 slow wep

[cinder haven]

I need the damned boots

[fathom bramble]

the boots make the cape go crazy sometimes

[cinder haven]

Yeah fun item

Gimme

[fathom bramble]

I guess it can always go crazy because rng

but the boots def make it happen more

[cinder haven]

Lost roll yesterday

[fathom bramble]

unluck

[tight kernel]

fb in fract is ok right?

vs sub prog?

[stiff vector]

I need a neck, prism, cosmic hunt and idk maybe something else

[fathom bramble]

fatebound outlaw played well is probably better than sub on fract

[stiff vector]

ye but that aint saying much lol

[fathom bramble]

yeah...

[stiff vector]

basically just deciding which one of the two worst specs in the game you wanna play on that boss

[fathom bramble]

if you are trying to be most optimal it's sin

[stiff vector]

tbh if it wasnt for last 2 bosses being good for sub, this would kinda be a real cursed rogue tier

[fathom bramble]

true

all 3 specs aren't really that great on paper

[frail veldt]

LOL

[fathom bramble]

we just have demonhunter council for outlaw and last 2 for sub

[frail veldt]

youre tellin me man

[vivid vessel]

Sub on araz

[frail veldt]

I keep doing lfr, normal, and heroic

aint seen nothin

[cinder haven]

It dropped yesterday at least

[frail veldt]

honestly I hate gear like that

its not fun

[cinder haven]

Chase item

[frail veldt]

when bis is like 5% better than 2nd bis

Its kind of okay when its a chse item for only your spec

[trim hound]

!pre

[frail veldt]

but when its bis for EVERY single spec

like wtf

[trim hound]

!pull

[cinder haven]

Good for engagement !

[trim hound]

whats the command

xd

[frail veldt]

!prepull

bot ded

[cinder haven]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[frail veldt]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[frail veldt]

ah fuck

lololol

embarassing

[cinder haven]

What about prekey for FB tho?

[vivid vessel]

What about it

[frail veldt]

everything except KS ig

[cinder haven]

Can do ks anyway to trigger snd bug I guess

[frail veldt]

dont you lose all coin stuff?

[vivid vessel]

Y

[frail veldt]

true but you wouldnt have any cps to start using the bug before the first pull anyway

[cinder haven]

Huh

[frail veldt]

actually

[cinder haven]

I would

[frail veldt]

if you KS from a dummy

and save your adr cps

you can

[vivid vessel]

Ks fills your cps meow

Idk if you forgot that part

[cinder haven]

You come into bubble with full cp

One snd before bubble drops i guess

[frail veldt]

ah true

duh

I usually do the KS so much earlier than the key drop so they fade

[quaint mauve]

i feel like i’m no longer getting fucked rng wise with buffs

idk if i just got better

but i’m on a roll

[cinder haven]

You probably got better yeah

[quaint mauve]

feels good

i did 4.1m on swamp face on trickster

which is like

unheard of for me

[fathom bramble]

I'm enjoying fatebound keys actually

lots of damage on swampman

[cinder haven]

I like it too

[quaint mauve]

can’t play without 1 hour tricks in m+

[cinder haven]

Less ss spam

[limpid vortex]

If my between the eyes is hitting like a wet noodle, what does that mean? Low crit stat? Low combo points?

[fathom bramble]

there was a couple of times that I opened with the 6 coins on a pack without tricks and immediately almost died

[quaint mauve]

for me it’s not almost

i always die

and then a tear drops my face as i see my adr on 3 minute cd

[vivid vessel]

Idk

I think Perma tricks

[quaint mauve]

should be baseline

[vivid vessel]

Is litteraly impossible to sim

[quaint mauve]

yeah me too

[vivid vessel]

In some keys

It's way too good of a DPS increase

[quaint mauve]

yeah bc you can hit things b4 anyone else

it’s so nice

[fathom bramble]

even regular tricks was often enough to hit things way before anyone else though

maybe a bit less good with the 1st gcd of tricks still being bugged

[random void]

Is sim accurate (dps) for outlaw ?

[fathom bramble]

if you drop the coins you might instant rip and die anyway

[stiff vector]

man menagerie boss with triple melee is so disgustingly awful its crazy

[limpid vortex]

If my between the eyes is hitting like a wet noodle, what does that mean? Low crit stat? Low combo points?

[quaint mauve]

ru using it at 5+?

[uncut ginkgo]

does runing dagger OH make a major difference for outlaw this season?

[quaint mauve]

like a .2 %

[fathom bramble]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[uncut ginkgo]

nod, thanks

[cinder haven]

I put auto tricks in my adr macro

Should maybe have it on gs if not in combat too as you sometimes end up opening with that

[vivid vessel]

I can the of so many situations where I can't do what In doing with Perma tricks tho

Like anytime you do a longer setup

[fathom bramble]

yeah I could see it happening, but I just don't see long setups in the keys I do anymore

[cinder haven]

On long setups fb is kinda cringe anyway

[fathom bramble]

at this rate I might not be doing push keys ever again so

I always consider it and think "maybe this season" and then something happens that makes me just not want to

[cinder haven]

You want stuff to be gathered when doing the burst but you also want bf up

Kinda not possible to get both sometimes

[fathom bramble]

how long do you have after stealth breaks to actually flip a coin before losing the effect?

[cinder haven]

No clue

[viscid forge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cinder haven]

Double joepardy is not a trackable buff i think

[fathom bramble]

nothing useful in the spelldata

it just triggers a serverside script

[cinder haven]

Maybe you can just open with bf

[fathom bramble]

and shows us nothing

[cinder haven]

And then adr+gs

Even though you have full cp

Then you can actually do the bte thing as well

[fathom bramble]

I've been playing like you had an arbitrarily long time to flip before losing double jeopardy but never checked

[cinder haven]

I'll try some on dummies this afternoon

[fathom bramble]

idk if I was even flipping an appropriate number of coins when I opened without flipping for 2-4 seconds

[cinder haven]

Just don't finish obviously

[fathom bramble]

I wonder if finishing below 5 consumes double jeopardy

[cinder haven]

Doesn't flip a coin so it shouldn't i guess

But it will be hard on opener with sc

[fathom bramble]

truee

I doubt it's useful to even try anyway

[cinder haven]

But FB is fun in keys, nice to not be useless on st

[vivid vessel]

i mean tricks last 4s

so even things like

first pack flood

you know how you go to the left, take the shitters then the tank setup the rest of the pack

[limpid vortex]

85% of the time. Is that why?

[vivid vessel]

if you open directly on the shitters

you have no tricks for when you get to the rest

[limpid vortex]

Had to double check

[quaint mauve]

no that’s good on KiR

[cinder haven]

Isn't it 6s?

[quaint mauve]

idk id have to see a log

[quaint mauve]

that’s for HO no?

[cinder haven]

Still nothing compared to infinity obviously

[vivid vessel]

6 maybe idk

still the saem tho

[fathom bramble]

yeah it's 6

[cinder haven]

Ye

[fathom bramble]

but still the same idea

[quaint mauve]

oh nvm i misread

5+ in stealth window

[mighty pivot]

Zac only lasts 4s

[cinder haven]

You just have to sit in stealth a bit sometimes I think

[fathom bramble]

I think in this context zac lasts 1 hour

[mighty pivot]

Only with performance enhancing drugs

[vivid vessel]

which is quite bad

especially with a warrior

[cinder haven]

Lose padding?

Or wdym

Or do you mean war will pull aggro?

Probably will

[vivid vessel]

yes

but also its not apdding ?

starting to attack 4s earlier is huge

[quaint mauve]

they don’t understand zac…

they don’t get it…

[vivid vessel]

for example

this isnt even a long setup

pretty quick one

but i start on the shitters at 13s, and get to the actual pack at 19

and i need to generate as much agro as possible to help the warr aswell

[limpid vortex]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kYXMZybFftzdg2wV?fight=56&type=damage-done&source=1091 this is my most recent fight. My sim is 2.93m but I'm usually just over 2m in an actual fight. Still new to the spec

[cinder haven]

Yeah but the only real value you provide by doing that is helping on threat or? Shitters will die anyway?

[cinder haven]

Guess you clear them out faster so bf can hit real targets sooner too

[quaint mauve]

your adr is super super super low

[limpid vortex]

How do I fix that/what should it be?

[quaint mauve]

on my loomithar kill i had 94% but i made a few mistakes

i mean ideally it’s 100%

[limpid vortex]

It seems like I'm doing the wowhead rotation but not getting the right results

So I don't know what I'm doing wrong

[quaint mauve]

i would read over the faq

to make sure you’re following all the rules right

not wasting cdr

[fluid meadow]

replace ambush with SS

[quaint mauve]

using vanishes right

holy shit

yeah that too

you don’t press ambush as KiR

only SS

[limpid vortex]

Ok thanks I'll go back to the training dummy.

[vivid vessel]

the faster they die the faster you do real damage

its always worth

another example i have on my mind rn

wait

[cinder haven]

Ye that's what I said after also

Helps let bf do real damage faster

Grrr target cap things

[vivid vessel]

here before boss on momma

you hit the adds that tank pulls on boss

boss is pulled like 6+s after

here we chain bombs into the next pack

thats another thing i couldntr do without either tricksting the bombs

[quaint mauve]

isn’t that bad tho? if you’re playing with funnel specs

[vivid vessel]

no

there is more than enoguh funnel on momma

you want things to die there

important

[quaint mauve]

oh okok

good

bc i do the same thing :p

but that’s bc i like farming dps meters

not bc i think abt it

[vivid vessel]

ye its super important tho

if you could you would kill these before boss ^^

you dont take them for funnel

[limpid vortex]

Uhhhh my quick sim is only 86% adrenaline. I think having 2piece/2piece is also killing me, mistakes aside.

[cinder haven]

Sim is using netherprism after adr and gs btw

Idk if it works anyway since it is the same timestamp

[vivid vessel]

you know whats unfortunate tob

i dont think you can macro prism to your adr/gs macro

since it would fuck uip stealth

[cinder haven]

Oh

[vivid vessel]

so you have to press it before vanish i think

[cinder haven]

Manually yeah

Ffs

Because it does damage too

Bleh

Will be hard to make an apl that uses it just before vanish

Someone try this a bit with a macro?

[stiff vector]

my keys so cursed td doing 10m overall in flood and brick the key on last pull b4 last boss

pug ELO hell is terrible

[cinder haven]

Anyway, netherprism probably undersims

But it's complicated

No wait @vivid vessel

It doesn't do damage on use right?

Damage is when you proc and get stacks?

On use is just stats

So it should be fine to macro

[cedar kernel]

the only 15 i left is dawnbreaker flood and halls

💀

[vivid vessel]

no

it break vanish

i tried

[vivid vessel]

i dont think so

[cinder haven]

But why

[vivid vessel]

well for fb maybe

[cinder haven]

Yes fb only

[vivid vessel]

but for trickster i already went over the apl

well

idk

arent all trinkets like this ?

[marble meteor]

netherprism doesnt undersim, it just isnt that great

[vivid vessel]

even stats ones

[cinder haven]

Why would on use that only gives stats break stealth

[vivid vessel]

idk its all trinkets no?

[cinder haven]

Come on blizz

Fix the game

It's probably just a flag on the items

Are there items that don't break stealth? Pots?

[fathom bramble]

need that allow while stealthed flag

[vivid vessel]

pots runes etc

[fathom bramble]

pots do have it

[cinder haven]

So they just have to use their flags

[fathom bramble]

but yeah stat trinkets definitely need to have this flag too

[vivid vessel]

if at least they fixed the vansiih part

cause you coudl use it from stelath

you get subterufge now

its just from vanish you cant

which is unfortunate with a trinket you would wanna use after a vanihs

^^

[cinder haven]

Yeah

Annoying

[fathom bramble]

I guess you want to use it right before vanish

[vivid vessel]

y

[cinder haven]

Yeah but that's an extra press

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[cinder haven]

Does sim have this bug?

[vivid vessel]

no

[cinder haven]

Or can i cheat

[fathom bramble]

trinkets breaking vanish, no

[vivid vessel]

doesnt amtter much tho

[cinder haven]

Good

[vivid vessel]

you can cheat

[quaint mauve]

flood isn’t bad

[cinder haven]

So call to items need to happen before adr in cds list and we're all good I think

[vivid vessel]

i do wonder if i should be playing it

but idk

the trinket feels very rng

it increase your high

[fathom bramble]

raw stats are just so good in keys though

[vivid vessel]

but doesnt help your lows

when you have nothing for a bit it sukcs

[fathom bramble]

you could just press it on the start of literally every pack and it's still good

[vivid vessel]

you dont know when to use

[vivid vessel]

not entirely true

the apl delays it for after a kir use and coup vanish

[mighty pivot]

use it when you 5 roll

[vivid vessel]

and that was about 0.5+% gain

or so

[cinder haven]

I wonder if fb should use it only on the vanishes with both gs and adr

[vivid vessel]

it prollly undersim a lot tho

[cinder haven]

Probably

[fathom bramble]

it is still stats though

[vivid vessel]

since a key is 30min

[cinder haven]

Variable cd trinkets are so cool

Love this design

[fathom bramble]

I wish we had a trinket like the junk magnet this tier

would actually be good on half these bosses

[cinder haven]

Sim usage of netherprism for fb is kinda troll rn

[tender wedge]

What about the new boys

From salhadar

Isn’t that like 12m on use baseline

Locked to 2m I guess tho

[cinder haven]

I wanna boost the coin burst damage with a trinket mainly

So on use stats is ideal I think

For once in outlaw history

[fathom bramble]

variable cd trinkets are cool when they actually open up something interesting to do with them

I feel like the specs that just send with their cds are the least interesting thing about on use stat trinkets

variable or not

[quaint mauve]

bro i regret my actions i don’t wanna play wow all night

how do i fall asleep with white monster coursing through my veins

[fathom bramble]

I want to see more trinkets with weird on use timers

force players to make a decision with them isntead of defaulting to macroing a 2min cd trinket with their 2mins

[cinder haven]

Moving the call to items was like 0.8% increase

[marble meteor]

wait is that custom or default behaviour? ive been pressing it before vanish like it says on wowhead?

[cinder haven]

I think netherprism is really really good for fb if you do the cringe manual press before vanish

[fathom bramble]

comparable to other myth track trinkets?

right now it's a bit far behind and idk if 0.8% is enough

on st*