Are you approaching guilds? Being proactive does a lot.
#outlaw
buoyant cosmos
quaint mauve
Are you approaching guilds? Being proactive does a lot.
applying and dming on discord
there’s such a little amount of weekend guilds though
buoyant cosmos
Yeah true
buoyant cosmos
Lots more two night guilds but I never see sat/sun
quaint mauve
idk it kinda sucks though i really enjoy 4 day raiding if progress is being made
but fluid mechanics and thermodynamics in same semester has made that impossible
calm gorge
I got to 80, got my pirate transmog vibe and the pirate dragon time walking mount and went right back to pally for S3 lol Mostly push M+ so I think outlaw will be good, at least for funsies
quaint mauve
I got to 80, got my pirate transmog vibe and the pirate dragon time walking moun...
outlaw revived me and has made this game 10x more fun for me
nothing feels better
it’s like doing coke for the first time
calm gorge
outlaw revived me and has made this game 10x more fun for me
I was having fun but got to 3100 and 710 ilvl kinda quick so this season feels over already.
What's your favorite part of outlaw? The fast pace or something else?
quaint mauve
I was having fun but got to 3100 and 710 ilvl kinda quick so this season feels o...
apm
i love apm
and i like how the rotation is like complex but not too complex
and i like how incentivized playing really well is or u kinda do nothing
:p
buoyant cosmos
I was having fun but got to 3100 and 710 ilvl kinda quick so this season feels o...
You can try wailing on the aoe dummies for a bit and see if you like it
I think outlaw has the highest apm in the game
quaint mauve
I think outlaw has the highest apm in the game
do we know exactly how much on average?
torpid fiber
It doesn't have highest rn
A fire build has higher per simc
There's an apm ranking on the simulationcraft site
calm gorge
Actions per minute? Just making sure. Seems fun! Speedy and strong. Rewards great players too with more dmg. I like that a lot
Thanks guys, I'll dig into wowhead and icy for opener and rotations and see how it feels tonight
obtuse hollow
Did I miss something in the stealth window.. I often have to do multiple SS in a row during stealth window but I see sims rarely have to do that
I often end up doing bte > SS SS SS SS SS > bte then the stealth window ends
buoyant cosmos
Thanks guys, I'll dig into wowhead and icy for opener and rotations and see how ...
The guides here are often more up to date
gaunt phoenix
if you dont have a good set of KIR buffs going then you do you SS a lot
buoyant cosmos
In the faq section, you can check this channels pins as well
calm gorge
The guides here are often more up to date
Oh, that's nice, I'll dig her then 😎
calm gorge
In the faq section, you can check this channels pins as well
Thanks
obtuse hollow
if you dont have a good set of KIR buffs going then you do you SS a lot
Thanks I always played HO this is new to me 🐢
gaunt phoenix
There's an apm ranking on the simulationcraft site
tanks 
The DH one is inflated cause it counts soul fragment shit
torpid fiber
ah
gaunt phoenix
The fire one is real though
torpid fiber
What about the mage one
quaint mauve
Did I miss something in the stealth window.. I often have to do multiple SS in a...
rng
gaunt phoenix
it's halfway rng but halfway making mistakes leads you to this point
gaunt phoenix
but especially if it's the opener sometimes you just get turbo fucked
gaunt phoenix
nice
quaint mauve
this is such a dopamine rush
i don’t think any think comes close
scarlet drum
Does wound poison work on the guy who heals in halls of atonement?
gaunt phoenix
ya
alpine stag
Does anyone know other bosses that wound poison works well?
cinder relic
Literally the only one
frail veldt
A fire build has higher per simc
oh dang relaly?
destroyed
thats it pack it up
outlaw is boomer spec confirmed
cinder relic
Fire has really high comboost uptime this tier
So they just sit spamming instant casts
open bane
anyone beat mage tower with outlaw this season
old gull
Remember when ret shut their discord down
cinder relic
It got buffed 
torpid fiber
tbf ret is insanely popular
late swallow
lots of people like to eat their own boogers
torpid fiber
Imo not meaningful to use group popularity data when talking about buffs
haughty wigeon
tho granted prot paladin is real high apm
bear debateable cause you scrollwheel ironfur
dawn talon
sunfury fire is crazy this tier
rly fun
i will not be pressing flamestrike however so im ia frostfire andy in keys
haughty wigeon
tbf ret is insanely popular
even when ret was at its least popular (shadowlands) its population was still double that most classes
late swallow
i will not be pressing flamestrike however so im ia frostfire andy in keys
Hey So basically I'm just not gonna cast flamestrike in keys I Know..... UGH I know... It's just that I'm not cast it is all HAHAHAHAHRHAHAHA HARAHARHARH.
spring harbor
So, this list shows 3 Crafted Embellished items. As that's impossible, I am looking for clarification. Anyone have any suggestions??
dawn talon
Hey So basically I'm just not gonna cast flamestrike in keys I Know..... UGH I k...
dude i just hate feeling like all my damage is pad
i can't play pad specs
gaunt phoenix
So, this list shows 3 Crafted Embellished items. As that's impossible, I am look...
the writhing armor banding is just a mistake
late swallow
holy based
gaunt phoenix
we use lens
spring harbor
the writhing armor banding is just a mistake
So craft, don't embellish?
gaunt phoenix
you dont necessarily need to craft wrists
it's a low budget slot
basically any random hero track wrists will do atm
spring harbor
Cool, thank you!
gaunt phoenix
Cool, thank you!
right now most people have crafted mainhand and ring
when we get a 3rd spark, you kinda have to decide/sim what might be the next best upgrade
could be another ring, or belt, or wrists
maybe neck but there are some good necks out there
spring harbor
Thanks for clarifying!
elder phoenix
So, this list shows 3 Crafted Embellished items. As that's impossible, I am look...
i highlighted this 2 weeks ago or so
And no one fix'd it LOL
quaint mauve
elder phoenix
both rotation guides are missing the vanish >GS tech
torpid fiber
unless you mean wowhead/icyveins, in which case that's to be expected for newer stuff
vital zealot
ass sub only main for 11 years, I have very simple question, why ol uses dagger as offhand? is that always?
gaunt phoenix
you're going to vanish soon
hollow bloom
Also not using ambush during subterfuge isn’t on there. Learned that reading conversations on here.
gaunt phoenix
it's in the builder prio
random stirrup
ass sub only main for 11 years, I have very simple question, why ol uses dagger ...
!oh
ornate heathBOT
A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more 
Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, 
Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.
vital zealot
cheers 👍
frail veldt
so I stopped using cudgel and I swear im cranking WAY harder
gaunt phoenix
those sweet offhand item levels
frail veldt
I guess so
I only have hero offhand
but like this is insane
Ive been doing like 15 mil every pack since
maybe just rng
but like 2 keys no cudgel have been ridiculous
Ive never broke 16mil with cudgel before
granted I 5 rolled but still
and I like made tons of mistakes in this pull too
im deleting cudgel fr fr
torpid fiber
I wonder if it's oversimming somehow...
frail veldt
yeah maybe that or like I dont play as perfect as sim so I vanish less or somethig? idk
torpid fiber
I wonder if there's shit keeping us in combat sometimes
gaunt phoenix
i dont think removing cudgel gives you 25% pack dmg
wintry solar
@fathom bramble are you trying to do 10s as a DH?
fathom bramble
no
wintry solar
okay good
fathom bramble
I don't have a DH
frail veldt
i dont think removing cudgel gives you 25% pack dmg
yeah nah youre prob right lol
what should cudgel be overall though cuz for me its usually like <3%
which feels like less than the dps increase of offhand from adventurer to hero
spring harbor
Wait, we should use a dagger offhand?
magic shuttle
!oh
ornate heathBOT
A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.
frail veldt
@proven ocean
torpid fiber
if it was ww it'd be meww
quaint mauve
more like brewmaster
oh lame
willow portal
or Mewonk
willow portal
strong halo
Do you guys really do the double roll before keys
twilit marlin
!macro
ornate heathBOT
Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.
peak holly
!prekey
ornate heathBOT
Pre-key fuckery
RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.- Just before key placement use
AR into 
KS to get 
Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs. - KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
- During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
- After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
- Before entering the first pack
BF into 
Stealth. - Open onto the pack with AR into
BtE.
snow crescent
!macros
frail veldt
Do you guys really do the double roll before keys
ofc
I just do it in town
while im waiting
willow portal
what kind of dagger is that
frail veldt
what kind of dagger is that
chop kind
willow portal
so how would shiv look with that
violet fable
what content creator would everyone recommend when looking up indepth guides to outlaw? I've been at outlaw since season lauch and I'm not doing terribly but I'm really trying to hit the top of my guild and in keys
timid portal
what content creator would everyone recommend when looking up indepth guides to ...
FAQ+ zac vods
violet fable
!logs
fathom whale
what content creator would everyone recommend when looking up indepth guides to ...
Sometimes I feel like I’m blasting and then I’m really not fr fr
violet fable
It's for someone in my guild. Just trying to help everyone improve 😅
random void
Having 4pc set is increasing dmg significantly rather then 2pc?
willow portal
is there anything i should hold or do for dps phases like on araz mythic? damage amp looking very sad
stiff hawk
Cant really do something than
frail veldt
yeah you can try to delay vanish if it wont fuck stuff up
or coup
but gotta be very careful with that so you dont end up like dropping adr or something
vivid vessel
@fathom bramble do you not think araz should be played as fatebound pc
i lose this much on 4 target as fatebound
but i gain this much st
i guess i forgot there are also 4 adds sets
hmge
vivid vessel
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
cinder haven
but gotta be very careful with that so you dont end up like dropping adr or some...
Idk, you can let adr drop probably if you have adr CD ready
FB can get a nice big burst by aligning GS vanish and adr
And maybe for a big damage amp you can afford to hold with all those ready for a little while
proven ocean
<@1172550924519080006>
Thats ur name wtf wemo!
remote pecan
<@101843879791177728> do you not think araz should be played as fatebound pc
i'm still the only FB kill on this boss 
vivid vessel
@gaunt phoenix @fathom bramble did you guys know trickster and fb actually loses a similar amount of prio from added targets now
its mostly from 1 to 2 that there is a big diff
but after that
its mostly -100k per target for fb, adn -50k for trickster
vivid vessel
no mathing
i was just wondering if it was still kinda true that trickster was the same prio in aoe than fb
turns out trickster just lose almost as much prio now
so
both is bad
gg
grim spear
gg
tacit willow
i need to ask this, do ppl know that coldblood makes every hit of KS crit? and if yes why do we not use this combo?
inland acorn
What would you even drop, to pick coldblood
vivid vessel
i need to ask this, do ppl know that coldblood makes every hit of KS crit? and i...
because outlaw has very high crit baseline with bte
and cb is a static cd of 45s
torpid fiber
i need to ask this, do ppl know that coldblood makes every hit of KS crit? and i...
that is a minor at best DPS increase every 45s that is either 3 talent points or 1 talent point for a build that's behind multiple %
and yeah, high crit already
vivid vessel
while ks is like 20s
lucid sandal
when we get a 3rd spark, you kinda have to decide/sim what might be the next bes...
What if I got a bunch of myth track stuff from raid and tazavesh deathless
Surely I dont send my gilded in a craft
prime glade
!Wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
vivid vessel
Surely I dont send my gilded in a craft
as long as you have your 2 embel (one can be a hc one doesnt matter) its generally better to send gildeds ye
on items i mean
lucid sandal
I crafted 2 rings so I'm probably not going to bother with crafts yeah
golden epoch
Random curiosity, i see Zac is the number ranked Outlaw Rogue in M+ ... do any of the other say "top 20" players use this discord (post comments etc)?
torpid fiber
Awang is a regular, nessa shows up sometimes, possibly more that I don't know the name of the toon of
vivid vessel
Random curiosity, i see Zac is the number ranked Outlaw Rogue in M+ ... do any o...
zeross
casuall adict but not as regular
speed never types
idk who else
wox types sometimes
i htink im forgetting people
shinding types in assa from time to time
grim spear
in terms of typing, zac and zero are also top-tier.
spare dome
zeross spams garbage tho
golden epoch
shinding types in assa from time to time
He is a top ranked player!!!???
grim spear
who doesnt
vivid vessel
me
spare dome
zac is informative
grim spear
.
willow portal
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bfpAZXGTYJNx13vR?fight=42&type=damage-done
looking at this log, would it benefit my guild if i go sub or assa instead of outlaw? never played either but i feel like i dont do enough when its important
vivid vessel
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bfpAZXGTYJNx13vR?fight=42&type=damage-done
...
@fathom bramble see, boss damage is important
vivid vessel
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bfpAZXGTYJNx13vR?fight=42&type=damage-done
...
sub is way more boss damage, less pylon damage hto, similar add damage, ask yourslef whats holding your guild back rn
daring oxide
sub is way more boss damage, less pylon damage hto, similar add damage, ask your...
i feel like my guild had plenty of boss damage, but pylon+add damage was poor
willow portal
whats holding is back is player deaths ^^
daring oxide
so i felt like outlaw helped there
daring oxide
whats holding is back is player deaths ^^
ya thats just mechanical skill
vivid vessel
i feel like my guild had plenty of boss damage, but pylon+add damage was poor
what does plenty of boss damage menas tho
for example
on his 2% pull
i think boss is dead if he is sub ?
red zinc
Random curiosity, i see Zac is the number ranked Outlaw Rogue in M+ ... do any o...
I would be top 20, I just need to work on my positioning, interrupts, damage, cc, coordination, uptime, communication,
daring oxide
maybe that too
daring oxide
Random curiosity, i see Zac is the number ranked Outlaw Rogue in M+ ... do any o...
only zac is the lord outlaw
red zinc
did you kill saldahaar yet
vivid vessel
ye we did
daring oxide
like there is never enough boss daamage imo
i guess, but outlaw 😭
daring oxide
we on dimencock
could i play nexusking with Lily and Araz trinket? or am I scuffed?
vivid vessel
p1 is hard af tho
split grove
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bfpAZXGTYJNx13vR?fight=42&type=damage-done
...
I personally love the ret paladin suiciding with Araz trinket
grim spear
outlaws do feel weak in this boss fight
red zinc
no prism 
vivid vessel
look
if you were sub (so top boss damage) you would have killed the boss 
all im saying
+600 million as sub
magic shuttle
I wonder if fb could be the play on soul hunters instead of trickster
red zinc
its so crazy
Ive never seen saldahaar intermission mechanic
That shit got outgeared from week 1 on normal
vivid vessel
y
willow portal
i might have to practise some more sub then, later bosses also want sub right?
vivid vessel
ye
red zinc
might lowkey move lust to i2 on normal just so my social goons can see the adds
red zinc
sadly i am too dumb for sub currently
No such thing
red zinc
You just need reps in raid
vivid vessel
on the scale of piss
red zinc
i mean every class is like that that you need to play it in practice
some more than others
magic shuttle
Fb sin is easier but sub is very chill
willow portal
sub just has so many buttons to time together
fathom holly
for you its easy zacary
willow portal
i like the flow that outlaw has instead
fathom holly
for us plebs its mathmatics
daring oxide
I wonder if fb could be the play on soul hunters instead of trickster
i tried FB on soul hunters, its very good, but trickster edges out a bit more imo
red zinc
I genuinely think every single spec is perfectly learnable by anyone as long as you want to put the effort in
nothing “too hard”
daring oxide
because on Soulhunters, if you are prio/focusing darksorrow, you still want to do similar damage to the other two, if you play FB you run away too much with prio damage on your focus target, and it makes it more imbalanced
fathom holly
sure thats how they are designed timmy
magic shuttle
Fair enough
daring oxide
also I recommend focusing darksorrow
daring oxide
also tell your melee to do it too
red zinc
sure thats how they are designed timmy
yet you still see way too many people in here / other channels saying outlaw is “too hard” for them
daring oxide
because darksorrow has more HP
vivid vessel
its the same 2 target btu less 3 target
daring oxide
and also the last intermission
vivid vessel
daring oxide
its the same 2 target btu less 3 target
ya trickster is just straight up better
magic shuttle
I'm seeing the tc optimizations so was thinking maybe fb can gain an edge
vivid vessel
daring oxide
play swift slasher instead of deft
vivid vessel
honestly im unsure
vivid vessel
with the new apl
daring oxide
they were quite neck and neck on damage @vivid vessel
vivid vessel
i think fb is just better maybe
magic shuttle
Oh right, deft doesn't do much on soul hunters
fathom holly
i read all your messages in a french accent zac
willow portal
yet you still see way too many people in here / other channels saying outlaw is ...
the learning might not be the problem but the 80cpm gameplay is a challenge when other specs cruise on 50
daring oxide
Oh right, deft doesn't do much on soul hunters
you can play deft as FB on soul hunters
daring oxide
but SS is good for trickster, as it gives you more unseen blade procs, for more coups
red zinc
the learning might not be the problem but the 80cpm gameplay is a challenge when...
I mean as long as you play for a while and you got motivation anyone’ll manage (unless theres like serious underlying injuries/conditions)
daring oxide
ye true, its just losing that 20% extra blade flurry imo hurts
daring oxide
the prio isnt that much diff
only good thing about FB i guess is that its easier to have 99% adr uptime i suppose
vivid vessel
idk
im wondering if fb isnt hsyut better
in intermission you are doing theorical 2 target cleave
without losing coin damage
willow portal
idk, some of these people are old so 40cpm might be the better level
red zinc
in intermission you are doing theorical 2 target cleave
wait can you reach those
as law
vivid vessel
cause bte is cleaving
vivid vessel
not coins
vivid vessel
red zinc
glad to know coins work even more inconsistently
daring oxide
my tails damage was much higher than BTE xd
red zinc
vivid vessel
my tails damage was much higher than BTE xd
ye make sense
daring oxide
but
vivid vessel
glad to know coins work even more inconsistently
what
no i mean you claeve with bte cuh
not coins
red zinc
Ye
daring oxide
for some reason it feels a bit bad? i felt like its obviously less ace procs
red zinc
but coins dont work
daring oxide
but more cp efficient?
red zinc
Is what you said
daring oxide
coins do cleave with flurry
red zinc
Huh
daring oxide
100%
vivid vessel
ok but if i bte something else
vivid vessel
so
daring oxide
lol actually
red zinc
Oh focus macro bte
daring oxide
i dont know
vivid vessel
ye you dont know
daring oxide
xd
daring oxide
maybe ye
red zinc
Yeah you’re like the only person to do ts
daring oxide
what are you mouseover bteing?
vivid vessel
coins cleave on main target while bteing smth else
red zinc
my fault for not knowing
vivid vessel
what are you mouseover bteing?
one of the dhs
daring oxide
ehhh
vivid vessel
daring oxide
how come?
red zinc
coins cleave on main target while bteing smth else
is this you having tested it
daring oxide
like some tech?
vivid vessel
is this you having tested it
no
vivid vessel
like some tech?
waht
vivid vessel
red zinc
Just focus macro ye
vivid vessel
red zinc
Doubt he mouseovers
vivid vessel
nah i dont
red zinc
That would be stupid as hell
daring oxide
ah ok so u use focus macro for this
ok ty
im gonna do this
thats why you beat me on Soul hunters...
hmmmmmmmmm
vivid vessel
thats why you beat me on Soul hunters...
i checked its not as much as i tought
daring oxide
vivid vessel
its like 150k i think overall
or smth
but also i do it when the otehr boss does the hunt
red zinc
vivid vessel
i actually try to hold vnaish for these aswell
so im in vanish wehn the otehr boss is away
daring oxide
oh right
red zinc
man i really hope outlaw gets some cool shit
red zinc
Love doing ghetto tc for this spec but this iteration aint it for me personally
red zinc
and in 11.2.5
Zero class updates till midnight
vivid vessel
u beat me by 150k overall
some chinese got r1
red zinc
I can tell you that much
worldly shale
we get tuning tonight right?
right....
worldly shale
daring oxide
some chinese got r1
daring oxide
and he has moerr bf damage than me
tanks pulled the other dh to duskblaze better then :0
red zinc
LEBROOOON
daring oxide
or
vivid vessel
tanks pulled the other dh to duskblaze better then :0
no idea
daring oxide
or
vivid vessel
i will get it back next reset idc
daring oxide
felrush guy didnt go too far
vivid vessel
im gonna skyrocket in damage next reset
daring oxide
how come/
daring oxide
ahh
indeed
ok i cant wait until our guild's dps is capable of that
maybe when we get 6%...
daring oxide
im gonna skyrocket in damage next reset
don't get too far ahead please ok, chill a little
cold falcon
bros is there a macro to vanish and with adre rush and ghsotly strike up trigger all 6 coins on each side mid combat
spare dome
its pinned
cold falcon
cheers
daring oxide
@vivid vessel could I play full ST Trickster on nexus king
or is that absolute troll?
vivid vessel
why
daring oxide
reason why i ask is because parries are fucking annoying me
vivid vessel
just play fb no?
daring oxide
xd
daring oxide
sometimes we just have no choice to hit from the front
vivid vessel
the boss is in front of you btw
daring oxide
wait can dimmy parry?
vivid vessel
daring oxide
no way
daring oxide
what
how can this be
hes just so fat
you can always hit him
how can he parry?!
vivid vessel
no idea
to annoy players
clearly i dont see a point in current day and age
its wild to me how many of these type of things there is in this game
like actively making the game less fun
but they dont get removed
limpid onyx
Just punishing melee for «immersion» i guess
magic shuttle
Gotta play trickster on dimensius to never parry
tropic zephyr
Fr I feel like 80% of mechanics are just to miss off melee players
red zinc
Trickster should make no parrying for the entire raid
magic shuttle
It did last patch xd
red zinc
(or just rogue in general)
magic shuttle
Unintended effect
ornate heathBOT
Outlaw Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/outlaw-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/outlaw-rogue
fathom holly
do you good m+ players delay your vanishes when coup is coming close?
cedar kernel
yea why not
worldly shale
tbh i dont wait only when vanish is capped or ar would run out before i double coup
vivid vessel
@red zinc
this week i only have a 61% chance of getting an item i watn this time
nexus king loot pool has cooked my vault
deep cedar
hey zac quick question what do u press on beginning of the dungeons to spend the one cp without wasting a sc?
vivid vessel
snd
deep cedar
you have a macro for it to cancle aura right?
vivid vessel
ye
deep cedar
but im missing smth cause when u press it like that u sometimes or always get that one cp back or am i tripping?
red zinc
nexus king loot pool has cooked my vault
I know that trinket is ass due to no main stat but
Its so fun
especially on undergeared alts
vivid vessel
Well I'm never taking it lol
rotund zodiac
worldly shale
!outlove
royal stump
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
hasty warren
vivid vessel
Ye
grim spear
fair oak
winter cave
Little question I'm trying to play outlaw again in keys now that my sub gear is mostly good and I managed to snag enough haste stuff on the side to make outlaw work:
I have a very hard time reaching the 4-buff mark to trigger KiR in a timely manner in keys, now I still lack practice with trickster and the s3 tier playstyle, but is it normal and what could be the reason I'm really struggling to get those buffs ?
sacred fog
How big dps increas is 4-set compared to 2-set in keys, generally speaking?
tulip quarry
!Fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tulip quarry
There you have it
cinder haven
btw I tried one of tobfons cooks where we just finish at 5cp+ always
this was a skenga cook actually
lucid sandal
Little question I'm trying to play outlaw again in keys now that my sub gear is ...
Would need logs to see but the faster you press your buttons the more CTO gets to proc
Could be that you have low AR uptime or you're not filling your GCds properly due to lack of practice
We all feel the loss of s2 tier which basically gave us perma 6 buffs though so if you have played outlaw last season it's going to feel rough playing this season at first
real flax
Hey Zac why in council mythic you are using Swift Slasher , not deftmaneuvers
torpid fiber
DM isn't worth it on 3t
you generally don't press BF as a builder on 3t even in M+ where you've already taken it (only if it would exactly build you to 7cp)
fathom holly
How big dps increas is 4-set compared to 2-set in keys, generally speaking?
very big for the CDR it provides
torpid fiber
DM is unfortunately a talent that is not as good in the dps department as it is good in the feels department
winter cave
We all feel the loss of s2 tier which basically gave us perma 6 buffs though so ...
That makes sense
winter cave
ANd yeah I certainly need more practice
torpid fiber
even with broadside
if it builds you to full you press it is the rule on 3t
torpid fiber
yeah
and it's a small gain for the 3t rule over just never pressing it on 3t iirc
vs SS is probably 1%+ dps (I don't know the actual numbers rn)
real flax
Ok so i dont press BF during the all fight execpt for refresh
viral ruin
!meld
ornate heathBOT
Night Elf does sim as the best race for m+, however there is a few quirks you need to be aware of:
- you need to restealth after pressing meld to trigger subterfuge (there is a slight delay)
- you cannot restealth against any boss (raid or m+) and some special global combat mobs
- meld can break quite easily if you move or take damage
- it seems that you need to break your stealth with something else than BtE to benefit from crackshot
cedar kernel
wait still no tuning yet?
toxic laurel
tbf this is one of the most diverse season
agile orchid
buffing outlaw would make it more diverse you know 
toxic laurel
as long as Zac keep drilling the high m+ keys the spec is fine in the eyes of blizzard ( maybe )
grim spear
can I just macro gs into vanish for fb?
torpid fiber
iirc there's order inconsistency issues with doing that but don't quote me on this
grim spear
torpid fiber
Macros are really jank
grim spear
vanish issue again
why cant just remove subterfuge and vanish stuff and give us shadow dance
so buggy
and disturbing in any solo content
torpid fiber
I'm like 50% it's not a vanish issue and rather that macros just don't consistently execute simultaneous actions in order
grim spear
There’s not much you can do about network latency
the real issue is that Blizzard should avoid this kind of design
having two abilities with no GCD pressed at the same time but still requiring a strict order of execution.
hybrid mesa
outlaw has shadow dance: "holy shit blizz this sucks please remove it i hate it"
outlaw doesnt have shadow dance: "bro please give us shadow dance back"
torpid fiber
I also don't think it's latency my understanding is that it's basically a result of a similar reason to why we have the extra coin bug
grim spear
outlaw has shadow dance: "holy shit blizz this sucks please remove it i hate it"...
Using an out-of-combat ability as a burst tool is really annoying
SD is just a bit weird in flavor
just renaming it would be fine
hybrid mesa
tbh just remove gs
such a pointless ability
no thought no nothing just press it on cd and -40 energy
torpid fiber
GS is cool I like getting +1cp sometimes
hybrid mesa
no animation no flavor no particles
it contributes nothing beyond en extra off gcd press
grim spear
for fb with 4pc this tier, GS does do something
hybrid mesa
for fb with 4pc this tier, GS does do something
extra duration and more dmg isnt something
that's just boring passive reductions
it doesn't change your rotation or the way you use it, you still just press it on cd
pure folio
No it does change how you use it
Not drastically, but there is still optimizations on how you use GS
which is how outlaw is rn, a lot of micro optimizations that amass together to be big dam
hybrid mesa
idk i dont find vanish into GS to be a very interesting optimization
or a reason to keep GS
pure folio
its not interesting by anymeans
but it changes how you use gs
which you said it didnt
they couldve made it more intuitive for sure
stark viper
So what's the consensus on trickster KS? Is it better to fully channel, or just until you get the CP back?
wicked obsidian
better not demanding any ability change, it's like in politics election. it will not get better and the risk is high it's getting worse. see KS (ok it's not worse, but rarely better). why they need to make it a channeling ability... a big canon with doing high uncapped ae would have been to much fun i guess
indigo token
why cant just remove subterfuge and vanish stuff and give us shadow dance
wait
why cant they just replace vanish with shadow dance
grim spear
bc we still want vanish for utility right?
craggy quiver
cinder haven
tuning when?
proven ocean
assa buffs plz..
magic shuttle
as long as sub dodges nerfs it's all good for rogue
proven ocean
sub isn't op
lol
its already falling off
people still think sub is broken when its always inflated first 2 weeks because of trinkets
magic shuttle
I think for prog it has some great phases to blast
magic shuttle
like you can buff outlaw but I don't think that would make it better on sub on fights like king or dimensius
proven ocean
ur totally missing how classes get buffed
and nerfed
sub is no where close to getting any nerf
heavy shadow
Is there some bug with BF on low level mobs? Like it doesn't work at all...
vivid vessel
without war buff, without dh buff, without monk buff
0️⃣
@proven ocean thoughts
cinder haven
maybe he's just better
lone spear
random 1am thought: is the smoke bomb talent actually usable now that killing spree has longer cd?
vivid vessel
@proven ocean
iirc tho i did like one or 2 gcds wrong on first pull so i did monksea dps was unfortunate
gaunt phoenix
Is there some bug with BF on low level mobs? Like it doesn't work at all...
if you kill the mob it doesnt cleave
gaunt phoenix
random 1am thought: is the smoke bomb talent actually usable now that killing sp...
nah i doubt it would compete with 10% crits on finishers
Distract is not on restless
mighty pivot
are we ready for the gigatuning coming tonight?
heavy shadow
if you kill the mob it doesnt cleave
Surely that is a bug though? is it the same for level 80 mobs if we get killing blow also no cleave?
mighty pivot
it is the same yes
river escarp
It was the lesser of 2 evils when it comes to bugs
mighty pivot
this is due to the fix they did so that BF doesn't cleave dead targets
river escarp
^
vivid vessel
mighty pivot
if they cba to fix it properly then it's much better for it to misbehave this way
mighty pivot
hello zief
I am enjoying a blueberry muffin how about you
it was supposed to be for breakfast but I forgor to take it with me
willow portal
should i try and hold a vanish charge at the end of pillar phase on araz?
or like anything
daring oxide
where is class tuning
willow portal
raidlead is asking me why i am below tanks in daamge phase
vivid vessel
where is class tuning
soon cuh soon
you know what the annoying thing is vurai
tuning is prolly this week
and this is the strongest outlaw is gonna look this tier
cause people are killing dh boss
and not killing last 2
craggy quiver
Holiday today
cinder haven
yeah, we really shouldn't complain if tuning is delayed a bit
willow portal
surely they buff the spec with only 10 players
craggy quiver
cinder haven
a few more resets would be good for us probably
vivid vessel
we need tuning to come in like 3/4 weeks i think
mighty pivot
lock.it.down.
vivid vessel
haha
spare dome
remove energy
late swallow
HO buffs would go dummy
mighty pivot
replace energy with ammo and introduce active reload
magic shuttle
Another 10% buff to assa
willow portal
sub stonks down please so i dont ahve to swap
pure folio
double it and give it to the next person 😔
willow portal
replace energy with ammo and introduce active reload
outlaws should carry around sacks of ammunition
mighty pivot
sub stonks won't go down the way dimmy is designed
late swallow
replace energy with ammo and introduce active reload
magic shuttle
It ain't a full pirate fantasy spec
mighty pivot
i have a big cannon for you right here
willow portal
It ain't a full pirate fantasy spec
*yet
magic shuttle
It was in legion
willow portal
craggy quiver
I played otl on tswift nothing can make me swap
magic shuttle
But I prefer a more open ended fantasy tbh
craggy quiver
Dimmy is coming close tho
proven ocean
@vivid vessel did they forget a bout last season 0.1 title or they cancelled that
they prob dont want to make the same mistake as last season
ppl got the title in 2 days of work only
prepatch push 
idk if they're even aware of ppl getting it without pushing
keen belfry
I played otl on tswift nothing can make me swap
I love outlaw but bosses like that outlaw simply wasn’t even fun for me
I will 100% play sub on dimmy
Probs saladbar too
keen belfry
Sub is very chill in raid
mighty pivot
you are dead 0% so 100% alive
jolly geyser
avoid dying to do dps
mighty pivot
or only die when you are out of CDs
keen belfry
Having fun on arcane guys
willow portal
i am practising, this was a 12 flood
if only sub didnt have black powder, that would help me alot with the rotation
just give sub blade flurry and not just that trickster version
timid idol
crit is 2nd best after haste tax yes?
burnt dragon
anyone got sub action bar setup that will make sense to my outlaw-poisoned brain?
trying to learn this for dimensius and it does not make sense to me
frail veldt
anyone got sub action bar setup that will make sense to my outlaw-poisoned brain...
I think it would only work if a person had the same outlaw bar as you
pure folio
^
burnt dragon
probably true
fathom bramble
Probably better off having things be different enough to unpoison your brain
Or you’ll start randomly hitting otl keybinds when you shouldn’t
timid idol
dude im scared to try sub
you have to actually use ur cooldowns carefully
i don't play specs that require smart cooldown usage 
only low cooldown shit like outlaw ret or bm
timid idol
bro i saw some sorta chart
late swallow
Big daddy lok with the words of reassurance
mighty pivot
just practise 
burnt dragon
theres so many sub buttons that seem to do nothing
vivid vessel
nah sub is easy
late swallow
bro i saw some sorta chart
That was probably df s3
late swallow
You had spreadsheets for cds
timid idol
i think i was trying to learn sub for ghuun raid
vivid vessel
Sub was even easier in sl
frail veldt
Sub was even easier in sl
eh I think dust was confusing personally
late swallow
i think i was trying to learn sub for ghuun raid
I’m gonna ghuun 
frail veldt
made it harder
gaunt phoenix
timid idol
also i NEVER EVER remember to switch loot spec
vivid vessel
eh I think dust was confusing personally
Sub didn't have dust in SL cuh
timid idol
so every season i think about practicing dagger specs
vivid vessel
That was df
mighty pivot
sub CDs are mostly the same sequence with some differences based on shadowcraft procs
timid idol
i never have daggers
frail veldt
Sub didn't have dust in SL cuh
it was a legendary
late swallow
also i NEVER EVER remember to switch loot spec
Lmao ambatubuh insane emoji
frail veldt
I thought they used it
vivid vessel
You didn't use it
frail veldt
outlaw used it
vivid vessel
Nah
frail veldt
ah
timid idol
ts good enough?
frail veldt
they used it in pvp I figured it was pve too
timid idol
i think i got this from raid
it dropped 2 of these, people only rolled for 1 and i got the other with an offspec roll
help
it killed my bar 
I HAVE DOOR OF SHADOWS ON THIS
jolly geyser
wonder if mine has blackhand stuff
jolly geyser
I trust you bac
lone spear
dude if we get 10% aura and are suddenly best spec
willow portal
crit is 2nd best after haste tax yes?
what a weird way to ask that, do you mean its second best after vers after haste tax?
lone spear
after i spent all week gearing sub for dimmy and saladbar
imma be so mad and happy at same time
willow portal
after i spent all week gearing sub for dimmy and saladbar
design wise outlaw has no burst tho
lone spear
true, but what is burst compared to doing giga dam for most of the fight
all the damage on saladbar matters
timid idol
what a weird way to ask that, do you mean its second best after vers after haste...
ye sorry
lone spear
dimmy probs could argue that the burst is still more import
timid idol
its vers first and crit 2nd after you go over 19% haste right?
gaunt phoenix
Yes
willow portal
@fathom bramble you killed araz as outlaw right? did you prepare the burn phase in any way?
gaunt phoenix
But eventually if you have like 9000 crit and 27000 vers, then vers and crit are basically the same stat weight at that point
Not exact numbers but you get me
lone spear
solo why is vers better than agi? is this just an every class thing
like surely thats not normally
willow portal
solo why is vers better than agi? is this just an every class thing
did you do a stat weight sim?
lone spear
yea
willow portal
willow portal
indigo token
help
its always funny seeing other peoples hot bars
becuase its so alien to how I play
fathom carbon
Old rogue comming back for s3
KiR is the higher dps option if i understand the info correctly.
But how much dps loss are we thinking if someone goes HO? 5%?
timid idol
aite i guess i go get some sub talent builds...
and i go hit dummies...
and then we get buffs so i dont have to do this anymore
maybe i try sin instead since that's easier? 
gaunt phoenix
solo why is vers better than agi? is this just an every class thing
I have no idea
lone spear
Old rogue comming back for s3
KiR is the higher dps option if i understand the i...
less with some new finds
gaunt phoenix
Old rogue comming back for s3
KiR is the higher dps option if i understand the i...
it's 4-5% in dslice, though like 10% in raw 8 target
so depends how you pull a bit
fathom carbon
But i would not be greifing if i run HO while gearing up my alt? I'll adapt and learn KiR if it's 10% though 😮
mighty pivot
secondaries being better than agi is a thing for sub as well fwiw
gaunt phoenix
you can be ho, some players push with it even
fathom carbon
Lovely
willow portal
secondaries being better than agi is a thing for sub as well fwiw
its for many specs at this point in the expansion
afaik
lone spear
brooooo ts plays with thistle tea
it does?
willow portal
teamspeak?
timid idol
this shit
lone spear
oh you're playing sub for keys
willow portal
sub macros thistle tho
timid idol
oh rly
indigo token
Hey guys Ion here. Here at blizzard, we hear you. After combing the wowhead comments, we've decided to hit you all with a blast from the past for rogue. We've gotten rid of crackshot, and re-introduced deep insight. We also reduced the uptime of adrenaline rush to be around 20%. We've also reverted Killing Spree, and made it a choice node with death from above, either of which can be used for the Trickster Hero Tree. We've also reverted blade flurry to it's classic version, where it just hits 1 extra enemy. Don't worry though, we've changed it into a buff that hits 1 extra enemy for each time you activate it, lasting 15 seconds. The buff doesn't refresh itself though.
timid idol
SUB STILL HAS FLAGGELATION?
BRUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
willow portal
ye
timid idol
no fun
willow portal
sub has like 7cds you wanna combo
timid idol
i want flagellation back as well
lone spear
flag > finisher > cds
dude i swear my yearning for s1 dragonflight outlaw
is hitting peak
willow portal
not having grappling hook sucks
quaint mauve
not having grappling hook sucks
true that
that’s why i lwk hated playing sin
shadow step is so much worse
burnt dragon
i think im just gonna stay outlaw for dimensius
my guild wont bench me anyway
we have shitters
hardy thicket
I miss shadowstep on Outlaw tbh
burnt dragon
i'll give them a chance to do more damage than me
hardy thicket
I miss it like every key every done
lone spear
guys quick question
the bugged opener for outlaw is macro > rtb > bte right?
im not crazy
surely thats it
timid idol
i have like
5.6 mil dps on 3 target dummies with these bad weapons with no enchants and probably bad stat prio
frank finch
so FB win st
wins 2t cleave
wins 3t cleave
wins 4 target cleave
i gues im going fb on mythic soul hunters
willow portal
seriously tho what can i do to improve burn phase damage
shy pecan
press buttons harder
willow portal
the heal nearly caught me
shy pecan
if you press bte with full force you will get a proc guaranteed
frank finch
lone spear
guys
is the opener bug fixed
im only getting 3 of each coin now
i swear i didnt touch the macro
timid idol
im gonna faint
willow portal
im gonna faint
guide go brrrr
lone spear
i dont enjoy sub
me neither
timid idol
there is no way ts is easier than our vanish rules
lone spear
it is tho
willow portal
the real struggle is when to keep cds for me on sub
willow portal
like there was something about keeping on 30s remaining or sth
timid idol
bro but
willow portal
really weird
timid idol
on dummy i dont need to save cooldowns
thats my biggest skill issue in this game
i play low big cd specs
cinder relic
Sub is very easy
timid idol
i dont know how to keep cooldowns
lone spear
if u learn where to use ur cooldowns
quaint mauve
im gonna faint
it’s not as bad as it looks
indigo token
enh
cinder relic
wdym stacking cooldowns
indigo token
wdym stacking cooldowns
like isnt sub the most cd dependent spec
quaint mauve
weird i coulda sworn it was the exact same
missing /cancel aura stealth or whatever
lone spear
missing /cancel aura stealth or whatever
nah had, all i did was add #showtooltip
could that alone legit break it?
cinder relic
like isnt sub the most cd dependent spec
Most of its damage is in cooldown windows, yes
indigo token
idk its not like crack to me