this hurt the soul
#outlaw
quaint wharf
glass mortar
me when it doesnt even matter when i manage to align the astral signs to make my spec work on a fight designed to fuck it
sullen wyvern
I honeslty dont have any issues on any other fight (although only heroic so far im a filhy 2 day/week raider kind of player)
late swallow
me when it doesnt even matter when i manage to align the astral signs to make my...
was it under a waning gibbous moon?
if so, that's your problem right there
glass mortar
i think its because my moon birth sign is a libra
sullen wyvern
For what I've seen on these bosses on mythic, going outlaw for nexus king and dimmy must feel so bad
late swallow
i think its because my moon birth sign is a libra
holy shit, real? i'm a libra too unironically
glass mortar
i have no fucking idea what moon signs are brother is libra even a real one
gaunt phoenix
@vivid vessel you're right 😨 https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7LTbge22ASqCf5V3DUUyyu
belt is the same
but stamina !
brave fossil
For reference with the belt btw (Non-socketed powderbelt @ 707 and 723)
frail veldt
For reference with the belt btw (Non-socketed powderbelt @ 707 and 723)
brother
royal ermine
bruh
glass mortar
ok why the helly is a 704 ilvl belt outsimming that belt for me
gaunt phoenix
your belt stinky
glass mortar
no!
gaunt phoenix
or you need hadste
glass mortar
i wash
brave fossil
20%
sullen wyvern
I might have to resimm my belt tbh
frail veldt
oh yeah when do we expect to replace the charged bolts belt?
sullen wyvern
I am sitting at 37% vers unbuffed and I have the vers proc from belt, I might be overkilling it
late swallow
mf be like "can you review my log" and post phone camera image
frail veldt
I kinda like it
sullen wyvern
you guys doing charged bolts?
frail veldt
lol
sullen wyvern
I am doing stats like a chad
glass mortar
OH i figured it out
fluid meadow
oh yeah when do we expect to replace the charged bolts belt?
i think next week im gonna craft belt
brave fossil
Crit chain pulls ahead rn I believe
glass mortar
sullen wyvern
thought dmg procs were giganerfed
frail veldt
Crit chain pulls ahead rn I believe
then dont run it lol
late swallow
solo really be enjoying that upside down thinking emoji lately
glass mortar
the only damage proc nerfed was the only good st one
frail veldt
oh I thought you meant the lightning rod thing PULLS mobs
late swallow
gaunt phoenix
frail veldt
lol
glass mortar
the aoe split one is still fine and generally the contender vs crit
crit should win as u gear up tho
frail veldt
learned that one the hard way
glass mortar
since secondaries scale better with u then procs
sullen wyvern
aighti mma try that now ty
frail veldt
I left the lightning rod on from raid
glass mortar
or with ur ilvl i should say anyway
gaunt phoenix
upsidedown thinkies seems like the perfect representation of confusion you agree
frail veldt
and it def fucked me for a whole key
glass mortar
priest discord has some super banger thinky emotes
frail veldt
I prefer a nice "wat"
sudden fulcrum
royal ermine
glass mortar
late swallow
glass mortar
not as good as foxloom tho
glass mortar
frail veldt
idgi
late swallow
gaunt phoenix
late swallow
glass mortar
🤔
gaunt phoenix
vivid vessel
@glass mortar
quaint wharf
late swallow
quaint wharf
sim changer detected
jolly geyser
gaunt phoenix
:thinkSpace1::thinkSpace2::thinkSpace3::thinkSpace4::thinkSpace5::thinkSpace6::thinkSpace7:
vivid vessel
:thinkSpace1::thinkSpace2::thinkSpace3::thinkSpace4::thinkSpace5::thinkSpace6::thinkSpace7:
royal ermine
:thinkSpace1::thinkSpace2::thinkSpace3::thinkSpace4::thinkSpace5::thinkSpace6::thinkSpace7:
gaunt phoenix
proven ocean
royal ermine
jolly geyser
nvm cant post lower half
late swallow
vivid vessel
frail veldt
jolly geyser
late swallow
hehehe
late swallow
frail veldt
late swallow
you didn't see nuthin
late swallow
som pushing the mantle until one day solos just gunna
this is gonna be solo finally banning me
jolly geyser
flat needle
!gear
ornate heathBOT
late swallow
been muted like 15 times
you or me?
jolly geyser
me
late swallow
yeah I've done my time as well
jolly geyser
1 week timeout "recently"
late swallow
yeah I had one a few weeks ago as well
jolly geyser
oh ye
late swallow
took the time to work on my relationship with my father
craggy quiver
Tomorrow
jolly geyser
sullen wyvern
so criticla chain simms just 0.3% in dslice and 0.6% in patchwerk higher than vers one
craggy kelp
indigo token
gaunt phoenix
jolly geyser
vivid vessel
sudden fulcrum
pallid wraith
late swallow
glass mortar
daring oxide
RP
glass mortar
yes that would be the biggest buff for it
and its still not that impactful
20% crit is fine
4 of the 6 do nothing tho
daring oxide
it is very impact
broadsides also increase its damage by 15% too
its a builder m8
hehe
daring oxide
hehe
elder phoenix
im curious
/cancelaura Stealth
/cast Adrenaline Rush
/cast Ghostly Strike
glass mortar
yea
elder phoenix
does this macro only works on openers
jade finch
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
glass mortar
it works anytime u wanna adr and ghostly at the same time as first gcd
but the cancelaura only works in the opener because vanish is not stealth
elder phoenix
cuz i noticed that i think depends on your luck you can align it every other rush
glass mortar
it becomes stealth if u sit in it for like 3s
spring harbor
Still learning Outlaw, getting conflicting info from the most common sources. Wowhead says not to use Ambush, Icyveins says do use it. Presumably, that is determinate on weather you take Hidden Opportunity. But, if you don't...how are we building points in Subterfuge?
glass mortar
SS
PS
deft BF
ur other builders
kir builds never press ambush. remove from ur bars
HO presses it more then any other builder
glass mortar
now this is repmaxing
no reason not to its not like any of them have time stuff tied to them and its a few days away
cinder relic
its 2 weeks away
glass mortar
oh right 31 days in august unlucky
glass mortar
not if you are playing kir
cinder relic
It doesnt
glass mortar
if u have audacity talented you are in an HO build
meaning you should either not have this talented (kir build), or you should be ambushing because u are playing HO
or you have ambush on your stealth bar as kir
take it off and put SS there
spring harbor
glass mortar
you have ambush on ur stealth bar or an ambush in stealth macro then
SS does not turn into ambush unless audacity is procced
spare dome
!ambush
ornate heathBOT
It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.
spring harbor
I removed it from my bar entirely, but it is possible that I had it added that was previously. I will investigate. Thanks for the input!
spring harbor
you have ambush on ur stealth bar or an ambush in stealth macro then
This was it, thank you. Gamechanger!
random stirrup
I'm only 13 on the new rep
You can get like 3 levels a week by just doing all the activities
Would be less work to hold for dmf but not by much
elder phoenix
whats the advantage for leveling up the new rep?
glass mortar
perma augment rune
u also get another enchanted crest at like 18 or something as always
elder phoenix
perma augment rune
perma augment rune?
glass mortar
yes
the augment rune u can use as many times as u want that every expac has
costs 100k
elder phoenix
what level ?
gaunt phoenix
karesh
elder phoenix
ooh word
Ive been super casual with it and im at level 5
lol
no clue how i got level 5 LOL
jolly geyser
got 18yday
silk slate
How big of a difference is there between Trickster and Fatebound for Outlaw?
frail veldt
the augment rune u can use as many times as u want that every expac has
kind of a scam this xpac cuz we dont have a s4
so like
...
rip
heavy shadow
I did it lads
heavy shadow
weakaura reset 😄 actually more like 100 attempts
quaint mauve
would yall wanna see my cheesecake and coffee
frail veldt
lol
glass mortar
ive used that think 1000 times by now
frail veldt
im still using last expansions augment rune to this day
same haha
quaint mauve
it was so amazing
frail veldt
its macrod into tricks for me
fallow fractal
trickster 4 piece do we slam coup 2 times or need new cp ?
frail veldt
it was so amazing
I need this
glass mortar
if u would press SS to build you slam it
if you have a different builder, you build
fallow fractal
makes sense since u can use bte in vanish time XD
stuck sparrow
this is the first expac they havent disabled the prior expacs infinite rune
glass timber
!log
If theres a kind soul that would look at this and help me out abit?:)
quaint mauve
I need this
it was really good coffee too, in a cute little cafe
got all my work done so i can play wow all day once im home
stuck sparrow
They never do tho
bfa one got disabled on sl release
gaunt phoenix
!rtb
ornate heathBOT
How to use 
RTB
(Assuming season 3 tier and 
Supercharger)
- Roll if you have 0 or 1 buffs.
- Roll if you have 2 buffs and
Loaded Dice is active. - Roll once asap after pressing
KIR, as your buffs don't get rolled away. Use this weakaura to see when your buffs don't get rolled away (yellow border). - After the KIR roll, continue to watch the weakaura as buffs tick down. As your buffs expire you may hit a point where your remaining buffs are yellow and you can roll again.
gusty cipher
do we still want 20% haste on KIR?
gusty cipher
i assume 19% isnt enough?
oh right
i thought maybe that 5% difference was key
!prekey
ornate heathBOT
Pre-key fuckery
- RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
- Just before key placement use
AR into 
KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs. - KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
- During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
- After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
- Before entering the first pack
BF into 
Stealth. - Open onto the pack with AR into
BtE.
gaunt phoenix
but most people have somewhere between 19-20
glass mortar
19% absolutely isnt enough, if you cant get that last 0.05% its all over
im at 19.10% right now and im in shambles
😿
overpaying my haste tax
drowsy ridge
I'm dust at like 24%
gaunt phoenix
19.05% is the exact cap
gaunt phoenix
but 19% is the same shit
drowsy ridge
I'm in the same boat, just need the gear to drop to swap things around though
cinder haven
Stupid haste cap
ornate heathBOT
ancient cobalt
omg vanish resets between the eyes now..otl got easier guys.l.
jolly geyser
it was so amazing
I love cheesecake
silk slate
RTB is still a mess of RNG.
jolly geyser
keen belfry
i moved my WA pack down a little bit, +10% dps
solo can you pin this?
i think its important to know
elder phoenix
whjat weakaura
keen belfry
you should move your WA pack down a little bit
jolly geyser
awank be right
keen belfry
ty
elder phoenix
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
silk slate
Willing to pay Blizz to make RTB a group buff and not it being something that makes or break Outlaw damage
keen belfry
i moved my WA pack down a little bit, +10% dps
@gaunt phoenix
as well as binding grapple to non mouse button
huge dps increase
civic void
Willing to pay Blizz to make RTB a group buff and not it being something that ma...
Willing to pay more so it never happens
jolly geyser
I moved my UB tracker upper right corner and my dps increased 50%
jolly geyser
idk, UIs are personal
jolly geyser
ye I got 64
keen belfry
whatre you a ram rancher
jolly geyser
ye van darkholme sitting next to me
kind otter
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
dusk bridge
Is KS a higher prio than 2 charge Vanish as Fatebound?
gaunt phoenix
Yeah
silk slate
Willing to pay more so it never happens
Why? It would allow Rogues to bring something beneficial to the group.
glass mortar
we do bring something its just not strong enough
but RtB is pretty core to outlaw and how it functions and an RNG raid buff sounds turbo cringe
cinder relic
Restless crew 
silk slate
What's the something we bring to the group?
glass mortar
atro or mind numbing poison
reducing the damage ur group takes by 3.6% or ur tank takes by a fair amount
civic void
Why? It would allow Rogues to bring something beneficial to the group.
I'm good about raid buffs and shit, the less there are the better I am
silk slate
Most don't know that and don't take Rogues. They will take others with buffs
jolly geyser
glass mortar
atro 5% ez
inland acorn
silk slate
If I don't run my own keys, then I never get taken in keys. No one wants an Outlaw. They want Sub if they want a Rogue.
glass mortar
sure they want the strongest spec of the pure class
thats usually the case no
mage and lock also suffers from this
its not like sub or sin are bringing more party buffs then u are
just better tuned atm
im sure fire mages arent particularly happy about the m+ status rn
silk slate
Mage has Lust and Lock has a brez plus cookies. People want that over a Rogue that people don't know what we bring.
jolly geyser
midnight we are gonna like every stat,heard it here
glass mortar
ok but thats not related to them taking sub over u as outlaw
mage and warlock are wanted (warlocks only ever get invites when they are turbo overtuned tho lets be honest here in m+) also are more wanted then hunters or paladins or dks etc
some classes have op raid buffs and i think thats a bit silly but most dont and are brought because they are overtuned
thats how the m+ meta usually is
quaint mauve
I love cheesecake
me too it’s so good
the UK lwk coming out with some good music lately
glass mortar
idd that rogue could use more group utility or another reason to bring it to the group, i think a raidbuff when we already have a raid debuff isnt necessarily the answer tho
improve our debuff, or give us some new fun m+ tools
we should be able to pick a utility poison thats either monk or dh debuff so we can fill for them if they arent available
jolly geyser
BL rogue
late swallow
goated key spread
civic void
or stop giving every single mob true sight in m+
stuck sparrow
Willing to pay Blizz to make RTB a group buff and not it being something that ma...
Its not as big as you think
jolly geyser
maybe vial selection at start of dungeon, 1 use
stuck sparrow
I swear ss doublehitting has been a bigger outlaw rng factor
than rtb for awhile now
quaint mauve
give everyone in your group poisons
glass mortar
ive said rogues should have healthstones in the form of crimson vial stache or something for awhile
our self heal is literally a flavored hp pot we drink
cant share it apparently tho
glass mortar
i think warlocks unique utility is one of the most cringe things theyve refused to spread around
late swallow
group cdr would be so crazy
glass mortar
but also warlocks are almost never meta for keys unless they are super overtuned so i dont think it would even matter that much
glass mortar
their utility is not something people find necessary for keys apparently cause u only really see them when destro is doing 40m dps on uncapped aoe pulls
theyve suffered a lot in dungeons since m+ was made tbh
stuck sparrow
late swallow
outlaw support spec when?
shy pecan
pls no
stiff vector
I mean rogue is really only meta when its doing big damage now too, our utility is a shell of what it used to be m+ wiuse
stuck sparrow
utility is literally a cope
lyric crest
I mean rogue is really only meta when its doing big damage now too, our utility ...
like most of the others tbh
jolly geyser
or after you kidney a target it gets a weak spot than you can stun it for a small duration with a regular interr
stuck sparrow
every spec mentions utility when they’re tuned well
then it suddenly doesnt exist when tuning is bad
lyric crest
people pretending arcane was only good last season because of the utility
or the funnel damage
like they weren't competing with balance & unholy on the overalls too
late swallow
blade flurry also flurries kidney shot
stuck sparrow
Idk my average arcane pug was competingn with the tank on overall
late swallow
stuck sparrow
mage pugs are banned
lyric crest
mage pugs are banned
stiff vector
like most of the others tbh
I wouldnt really say most, theres plenty of specs that bring at least some/decent utility value
jolly geyser
or some talents that reduces stealth seeing range with shroud
lyric crest
I wouldnt really say most, theres plenty of specs that bring at least some/decen...
yeah but most of the time when something is meta, the damage is a large factor
never see a spec do doo-doo damage and be meta
digital linden
how much does hunter mark do for outlaws?
glass mortar
damage is the largest factor to stuff being meta
and the profile of the op damage specs/the people who buff them best also has influence
theres a lot of factors, its silly to pretend its any single factor
but damage i would say is more then half of it
a majority for sure
lyric crest
there is a very good reason that mage & dh are often meta
glass mortar
raw dps
lyric crest
the buffs they give are really good, but they're also always really good by themselves as well
glass mortar
i mean veng dh is an abomination idk
stiff vector
the problem is, we have no real valuable utility (even shroud is very situationally useful these days), terrible ST, terrible prio, capped, terrible dmg profile. Really only thing we have going for us is perma tricks and being tanky af
glass mortar
nothing with that many aoe stops should exist
stuck sparrow
never see a spec do doo-doo damage and be meta
unless its aug
then people insist on aug in their 10 keys
glass mortar
strong raid buff anytime casters are the meta + decently designed tanking kit + the most aoe stops of basically anyone in the game
strong halo
Eco 14, outlaw supremacy
lyric crest
magic damage buff didn't make DH op in s1 despite Frost DK and enhance being the best DPS specs
stiff vector
strong raid buff anytime casters are the meta + decently designed tanking kit + ...
which is ofc every season because mage exists
lyric crest
(i mean VDH sucked in s1)
buoyant cosmos
Eco 14, outlaw supremacy
Replace destro with BM or feral
jolly geyser
tbh no rogue spec is gonna be giga popular unless dreaded word more simple
lyric crest
or another outlaw rogue
buoyant cosmos
the problem is, we have no real valuable utility (even shroud is very situationa...
Do you think bringing back bomb as a defensive would be enough?
Or is a DH w/ darkness still just better
glass mortar
i did like bomb as a defensive i dont think it would have almost any impact on m+ tho
lyric crest
make feint passive 
glass mortar
it was an aoe 10% dr for a short duration
strong halo
Replace destro with BM or feral
true, but he should have rekt me with uncapped aoe
glass mortar
that would be like the worst raid aoe defensive on a dps in the game
i still want it tho
buoyant cosmos
true, but he should have rekt me with uncapped aoe
True
glass mortar
buoyant cosmos
that would be like the worst raid aoe defensive on a dps in the game
It should be updated to be in-line with other aoe defensives
glass mortar
bring back shivving atrophic poison
buoyant cosmos
But it's nice to have something other than invisible atrophic
glass mortar
buoyant cosmos
bring back shivving atrophic poison
He's cooking
glass mortar
i mean ur just reducing rogues skill ceiling there ur not making it more viable
u can already feint for every damage event u could possibly need it for if u want to
stuck sparrow
I mean ngl
lyric crest
i mean ur just reducing rogues skill ceiling there ur not making it more viable
ok, give it some sort of raid cooldown to bump up whatever poison effect you have on nearby targets by like 10x
stuck sparrow
enh wouldnt have been so oppressive s1
if aug wasnt worth using
since enh would have just fallen over
lyric crest
so the mob will either be mega slowed, attack very slowly, or do like 23% less damage
glass mortar
thats called shiv
stuck sparrow
without aug
glass mortar
but yes
shiv is too weak
because unfortunatly its a rotational button for sin so it cant be really made into a strong utility button without hurting sin
shiv atrophic to triple the effect for 5s
glass mortar
i dont think that really changes anything they initially gave sin 2 charges of shiv to make up for shiv possibly being a strong utility button and even then it was still dumb
lyric crest
kidneyshot reduces damage output of target by 30% for a couple seconds
then give it a cooldown
stuck sparrow
We already have dr
buoyant cosmos
How can you be immune to dirt in your eyes blizzard
stuck sparrow
tied to blackjack
buoyant cosmos
Make it make sense
stuck sparrow
but it competes with tricks
lyric crest
How can you be immune to dirt in your eyes blizzard
Demon Hunter
frail veldt
make the blind DR talent work even on targets immune to blind
what do we have to drop for the blind dr talent?
glass mortar
tricks
buoyant cosmos
what do we have to drop for the blind dr talent?
Tricks
glass mortar
frail veldt
HA
glass mortar
suffer mewo
glass mortar
SUFFER
glass mortar
yea nah pvp talent for sure
buoyant cosmos
It's awesome in pvp
glass mortar
ok but even if u were blind could u imagine how itchy and uncomfortable sand in ur eyes would be
frail veldt
How can you be immune to dirt in your eyes blizzard
its more like which mobs are weak enough to stumble around like a moron due to some dirt in their eyes
frail veldt
bro
lyric crest
ok but even if u were blind could u imagine how itchy and uncomfortable sand in ...
they are wearing BLINDFOLDS
buoyant cosmos
id just start swinging
Enrage buff instead of daze goes crazy
frail veldt
no way I just stammer back and forth
lyric crest
id just start swinging
granted, mobs now do 50% more dps after blind ends
all mobs can be blinded, including bosses
stuck sparrow
I feel anytime sub can kill somebody in a kidney
the playerbase cries for days
or months
lyric crest
playerbase always crying
glass mortar
well
lyric crest
every time i go on one of the class discord 80% of them are dooming
glass mortar
pvp is a bit dif
buoyant cosmos
I feel anytime sub can kill somebody in a kidney
If you play sub well I think you should be able to solo anyone, maybe not in one kidney though.
glass mortar
sub has the most control of basically any melee in the game in pvp and always has so if it can solo players in a stun its slightly problematic because it can solo stun the entire enemy team in a go
usually u gotta coordinate that kinda cc coverage
or have them stacked
now that duel is gone they should give sub some damage back tho, I figured they had this season but i havent really checked tbh
its funny i think back to pre legion days and sub was decently often one of the highest sustain damage pvp specs in addition to having ultra scary dances and big cc
glass mortar
sub rogues been recovering from the shadowstrike fiasco of legion ever since
stuck sparrow
Like idk why people act like you can just
step twice to triple cheap the entire team
without teammate coverage
drowsy ridge
Because its easier to Strawman the optimal scenario
glass mortar
no because generally how much dps u do is balanced against how much cc u can do which is why subs damage has usually been among the lowest since legion
stuck sparrow
like sub if anything
glass mortar
its just how they decide to do it
glass mortar
yes
i blame shadowstrike
someone thought it would be ok for this ability to work as a teleport every cast even in pvp for 2 months in legion and sub rogue has never recovered from it
stuck sparrow
also mage still has the highest control
while being able
to 100-0 people in seasons with combust
glass mortar
sure
and sub rogue has occasionaly for periods of time been able to 100% to zero someone in a kidney shot duel with their cds up solo as well
not often but it has happened several seasons
stuck sparrow
Idk people complain way faster
about sub than any mage spec
or warlock having like 20 micro ccs
glass mortar
yea because ur usually not in the mages cc when ur getting 100 to zerod by the fire mage
stuck sparrow
to land bolts with
glass mortar
you are in the rogues cc the entire time they are killing u
and being killed in cc is 10000X more annoying to ur average pvper then dying to someones cds while ur playing the game
stuck sparrow
No you just get stuck in a poly
glass mortar
so of course they complain faster
buoyant cosmos
You remember the rogue because you can't do anything lol
drowsy ridge
Its the perception of the thing, in the end
glass mortar
a mage does a setup to u while ur on a poly but the moment it breaks u can press buttons. a rogue killing u 100 to zero in 3 stun drs even if u fucked up by using a bad trinket
is infinitly more frustrating to ur average pvp andy
idk its not surprising at all that people complain anytime sub is op
not saying its valid
stuck sparrow
I feel its just as bad with fire
buoyant cosmos
not saying its valid
Just that they're soft
stuck sparrow
when it has slow moving casts
that all land the same time
by the moment you can move
glass mortar
ok im gunna be honest, i pvped every season in df, i havent pvped much since early s2 this expac
is gpy back or, i remember that playstyle being a thing in shadowlands
i cant remember the last time i saw a fire mage in shuffle or arena cast a gpyro and solo anyone tho
glass mortar
historically i think fire mage had about 2 seasons of that gameplay in the history of this game and never again
stuck sparrow
only from players at a higher level
glass mortar
and i remember plenty of people complaining about it
including fire mages
who tf wants to play gpyro
stuck sparrow
it was basically most of bfa
stuck sparrow
and uh, i guess that caster trinket in sl s3
stuck sparrow
the one that made you cc proof
frail veldt
if they address cheap shot
they will fix rogues balance issues
it just needs a 6 second cooldown
it would go a LONG way
stuck sparrow
One thing i found weird about bfa
was eu mages played less gpy
more kindling+reaping flames
frail veldt
well I think the issue with fire
is it had no setup
for its burst
nothing to kick
no way to stop it
stuck sparrow
Idk hot take
frail veldt
for both frost and aracne
they telegraph their burst
super hard
for the most part
frail veldt
thats fair
but still
fire doesnt care
both sub and fire
have the same fundamental balance issue in pvp
stuck sparrow
tbf is any mage spec fun to play against
frail veldt
which is 0 setup burst
stuck sparrow
frost you are perma 70% slowed
frail veldt
0 setup burst specs are always going to plague pvp
stuck sparrow
or some shit
frail veldt
in the worst way possible
stuck sparrow
or mini rooted
frail veldt
frost is toxic I agree but thats easily balanceable
they can just trim that
for both sub and fire
either they can kill you in one setup
or they cant
stuck sparrow
I think the like 0.5s roots
stuck sparrow
repeatedly are the worst
Yeah its definitely tough to balance
especially since bad mage is
really useless
frail veldt
yeup
stuck sparrow
i.e someone that cant setup
keen belfry
frail veldt
sub and fire are similar in that vein
though I wouldnt say frost is hard
theres bad frost mages af
and they just play MLD
and win
frail veldt
tbh
stuck sparrow
its basically a meleecleave
frail veldt
mage isnt the same class
in different comps
same as rogue
even RMP isnt the same comp
stuck sparrow
really isnt
frail veldt
if youre playing outla
vs sub
like you cant tell me RMP with arcane and outlaw
is even remotely the same comp
glass mortar
The problem with frost is rng roots off autoing a guy are cancer and the snare is like 15% too strong
lyric crest
by the way, does anyone know why pug tanks have begun going center then right on HOA?
stuck sparrow
though godcomp is less braindead than mlx
sudden fulcrum
by the way, does anyone know why pug tanks have begun going center then right on...
Why not ask them
frail veldt
only knows the game in one way
and they suck in all other comps
its kinda sad
how gimped you are as a player
if youre a sub fire rmp main
stuck sparrow
Yeah if you’re talking general playerbase
frail veldt
like you have no perspective on how the game is actually played
stuck sparrow
I knew a guy who played that at like duelist
frail veldt
the most flexible players usually play the more standard melee + caster + healer comps
lyric crest
Why not ask them
They always get angry and dont explain anything
stuck sparrow
could not get high as a meleecleave even
stuck sparrow
rps is fun
sudden fulcrum
They always get angry and dont explain anything
Lmao sounds like the average pug experience
frail veldt
RPS is like bis pvp imo
stuck sparrow
You know how funny it is to kill warlocks in opener
who forget they cant wall during silence
frail veldt
lolol
I think the meta of the game would just be more enjoyable if double melee and double ranged comps didnt exist in pvp
straight up
stuck sparrow
bomb on gate kill in kidney silence
gg
Well yeah thats the thing
no one complains about warrior mage
frail veldt
melee cleave and caster cleave makes pvp bad
frail veldt
no one complains about warrior mage
yeah cuz its an honest comp
I mean theres some degen melee + ranged comps
like dev fdk
but thast a whole separate discussion haha
elder phoenix
i find fire rotation prob one of the easiest rotation in the game
stuck sparrow
into ungabunga
jolly geyser
wonder what reckful would say about these comps
stuck sparrow
Yeah i feel every comp of theirs relies on grip blinding sleet into pillar of frost stun
frail veldt
its pretty unfun
its like 8 different micro ccs
super toxic to play against
but I will say another thing that would objectively improve pvp in every way(IMO) is removing the 3rd dr
it should fully DR after 2
10000000%
jolly geyser
pvp high end is so far above the high rating idk,you gotta know every ability
frail veldt
I mean you gotta know every ability even at like 2600
thats how most pvp games work though
leagues the same way
if you dotn know every champion
youre gona suck
stuck sparrow
The most interesting thing to me was
jolly geyser
aye,unless you wanna get insta gibbed
frail veldt
ma venthyr sub+keefers ww
sub ww has always been slept on
jolly geyser
but really high end is like,press 1 button wrong and you die
frail veldt
sub rogue players are just so one dimensional though so they rarely branch out
from rmp
frail veldt
sub enh in DF
craggy barn
super comfy comp
frail veldt
nah
it was a while
no one played it though
they played other more standard enh comps
stuck sparrow
I think kalvish and hots did
frail veldt
yeah kalvish did
stuck sparrow
but thats it
frail veldt
I think enhance and sub players jsut dont cross paths that often
stuck sparrow
theres that one european enh who played it prior to df
loveless or whatever
I mean historically most enh mains played turbo
or beast
frail veldt
yeah always some melee cleave
fair oak
jolly geyser
lil baby
shy pecan
baby turtle
buoyant cosmos
Stealth on the portal?
sullen wyvern
inv?
zinc briar
pfff
sullen wyvern
what you can do is BF> stealth > take portal
you get like 3 seconds of stealth window once you land in
sullen wyvern
You'd still have like 2-3 seconds of subterfuge window after taking the portal
also after opener you should use KS then vanish afterwards if you want
fluid crown
how hard is to learn outlaw for soul hunters
i got 45 min left of raid, can i master it?
worldly shale
how hard is to learn outlaw for soul hunters
hit stuff
vivid vessel
i think
soul hunter
is one of the hardest outlaw boss in a while
if you arent a one tirck outlaw
craggy barn
outlaw with 0 practice is deadge
vivid vessel
you dont go outlaw
sullen wyvern
I guess you mean in mythic
vivid vessel
there is a lot of mechanics going out at all time perma
and its a hard boss to keep uptime on
and since there is so much going on
its not easy to play perfect all the time
and outlaw well
drowsy ridge
And Outlaw lives and dies on uptime
vivid vessel
you know
random stirrup
It’s a bit hard boss to focus on rotation stuff with all that’s going on
kinda insane brain overload
fluid crown
this is not the kinda energy I would like at this cookout
knotty scaffold
blood said no to radiant power ?
fluid crown
but thanks for the honesty
sullen wyvern
how hard is to learn sub from 0 as an OTP outlaw?
sullen wyvern
in this boss too?
random stirrup
decent skill floor to get the basics and then is easy
sullen wyvern
I find ass so boring
buoyant cosmos
blood said no to radiant power ?
I'd sim your own stuff
white marten
I find ass so boring
Take it back
vivid vessel
I find ass so boring
ass is too hard on that boss anyway
you need to be very careful about mark swapping
its annoying
quartz magnet
also @ focus bte is important on this boss
why is it so important? for uptime?
sullen wyvern
what do yo u even play in that boss tehn zac
youre basically saying to nmot play rogue there 
vivid vessel
why is it so important? for uptime?
because there is almost always a boss out of melee
and in transition you can hit one aswell
in the end you get 200k-300k or so doing it
random stirrup
what do yo u even play in that boss tehn zac
tbh I think you can play whatever you’re the most comfortable with
vivid vessel
what do yo u even play in that boss tehn zac
what
im an outlaw one trick
i played outlaw
but i do think its a boss where you play a spec you are good at
random stirrup
probably most important to not have to think much about rotation since they’re all pretty similar output
vivid vessel
cause its hard mechanically to keep uptime and shit
outlaw is much better tho
lol
no question
random stirrup
ya outlaw is the best
vivid vessel
but even world first raiders didnt play outalw on it
cause it was too hard
since they never lpay outalw
buoyant cosmos
They needed the celebrity zac appearance to show them how it's done
hybrid crown
I think swapping to assa for me is a loss because of the morale loss of using little weenie daggers
random stirrup
outlaw is much better tho
if we ignore you tho outlaw isn’t far ahead
keen belfry
wait for awangawngaw to get there zac
random stirrup
is close
keen belfry
ill be thre in like 4 months
random stirrup
6:56
latent belfry
cause its hard mechanically to keep uptime and shit
This is an understatement. it almost feels like you HAVE TO PLAY perfectly or do tank dmg all raid.😔
vivid vessel
better longer or shorter
random stirrup
6:34 kill timer for us
keen belfry
heroic parses matter
random stirrup
is gain
i do think outlaw is better but sub is close
assa seems a bit shit after the bugfixes idk
plus its too hard to play
or too annoying
vivid vessel
6:34 kill timer for us
so
waht will happen next week
is that
we kill before last intermission
latent belfry
Outlaw would be good if we could play HO again without it being 10% behind the most annoying build in the game 🙏🏽😭
compact narwhal
Outlaw would be good if we could play HO again without it being 10% behind the m...
feels kinda good tbh
i might be fried tho
been playing it since yday and enjoying it
latent belfry
i might be fried tho
U probly right. I’m just absolute GARBAGE
compact narwhal
me too buddy its okay
latent belfry
Finally got into a CE guild but I’m getting benched on the mythic prog fights cause I can’t keep up 😔 to make things worse there’s a sub player in the group and he fucks me in the meters
I’m doomed
red zinc
lock in twin
buoyant cosmos
Finally got into a CE guild but I’m getting benched on the mythic prog fights ca...
use the bench time on the dummys
compact narwhal
also bright side maybe slot for reclear?
red zinc
i mean
depends on the situation i guess
dungeon bosses some people can fit their entire cds in the hp area
so i guess it benefits certain classes more then
nothing inherent though
glass mortar
I mean if u do more damage in the opener/high hp u benifit more but it gives everyone the same 5% if that's what ur asking
fast bloom
Did y'alls guilds make you park and wait 40yds away from far leap/fel dev on mythic soul hunters intermission? Is that a prevalent thing or is my guild doing dumpster strats?
vivid vessel
dude wtf
proven ocean
it always lines up together
proven ocean
fuck you zac
proven ocean
glass mortar
They buffed outlaw every single patch of ptr and it still wasn't enough for zac
Smh no wonder we ended up worse off
south scaffold
guys, our tierset sucks hard, right?
frail veldt
Outlaw would be good if we could play HO again without it being 10% behind the m...
well I ahve good news
its not!
daring oxide
@vivid vessel i played like absolute trash on mythic frac
i had 50% uptime on BS and TB
🙂
i love rtb
FML
this feels dreadful
fallow sonnet
kir builds never press ambush. remove from ur bars
So, I can't show it, bc it was the other day and I never took a SS, but my friend (not a rogue player, just trying to help me) compared my logs to another outlaw on the same boss parsing way better than me, and aside from more casts of all the abilities overall, the only difference was that he used ambush way more and it did like most of his dmg behind the spenders, way more than SS. even tho i swear he was KIR build, maybe he was HO and I'm just misremembering so thats what im assuming is the case looking back on it. I was trying to figure out how that's possible bc when I'm playing right and popping off, my entire subterfurge windows are mostly used spamming BtE and idk how I'm supposed to hit ambush often enough to make it do more than my SS.
Instead of asking right away I started searching ambush in this channel - Now you're telling me I'm supposed to avoid using it altogether? Like even in subterfuge just always use SS?
frail veldt
dont press ambush as KiR build
fallow sonnet
i guess it makes sense the more i think about it
frail veldt
it doesnt do anything as KiR
you dont get PS procs or double hits from it
so it isnt worth the energy cost
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> i played like absolute trash on mythic frac
oof
nice damage cuh
fallow sonnet
you dont get PS procs or double hits from it
yeah with KIR build ur normally hitting all the notches for SS but nothing for ambush makes sense
civic zephyr
oof
zac im wondering if i should stick to old tier set
cause this new one seems so shit
like i cant
gaunt phoenix
There are top logs using ambush on kir, but it's not correct
they didnt parse like that cuz of raw ambush casts
civic zephyr
they didnt parse like that cuz of raw ambush casts
do we need to switch talents?
from what we had?
gaunt phoenix
im confused
gaunt phoenix
You use loaded dice with new tier
civic zephyr
can share the talent here please?
quaint sable
its in #outlaw-faq
gaunt phoenix
gaunt phoenix
thats the st build
glass mortar
i tried to link aoe
quaint sable
u also did st instead of M+
gaunt phoenix
noob !
gaunt phoenix
oh i think blizzard broke all the import strings
glass mortar
the pics still work at least
quaint sable
On my hc clear, it was the first one with tier and I totally forgot to swap to swap all my different cleave builds to loaded and I was wondering why I was never hitting 4 buffs to KiR
vivid vessel
@gaunt phoenix
gaunt phoenix
?!@#
vivid vessel
i forgot about the mythic mechanic on dimmy
for outlaw
you know
how you get stunned
for like
10s
in po1
gaunt phoenix
vivid vessel
if you get the mechanic
gaunt phoenix
idk mythic
glass mortar
gravity yea
i mean even on hc if ur soakers r shit u spend 10s afk so
🙂
everything about this boss is cancer for law what do u want me to say zac
digital linden
its simply a sub angle
glass mortar
it was only ever gunna get worse on mythic