outlaw

[granite merlin]

Should I just SS

[proven ocean]

my balls or

[torpid fiber]

Don't SS with coup proc

You send coup even below finisher cp if you'd ever SS

[vivid vessel]

a random neck or wrist idk

[granite merlin]

It what do I do if I dont have combos pistol shot it up or just send it

[light dune]

send ita low CP

thats fine

[granite merlin]

Ok that makes me feel better

Getting 4pc is effing wild on the rotation

[proven ocean]

idk what i can craft long term

like

the x marks

are guaranteed avoidance pieces for me

[red zinc]

then just craft a ring i guess

[proven ocean]

i mean

embell

like

where would i drop it

idk

shoulder maybe idk

how big of a loss is that

[red zinc]

shoulder aint that major

[proven ocean]

actually maybe i craft gloves long term

[red zinc]

same as hands/belt/feet

[proven ocean]

oh

nvm

i cant craft gloves

i'll be giga low on mastery

hmm

wil lsee

[vivid vessel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kay3gV94TteJBxdiRs1Jq5

711 hm

Not even 712

Cringe af

[proven ocean]

cheater

[red zinc]

711 got some good snacks

[vivid vessel]

I'm missing 60 crests rn ross

Cause I upgraded outlaw weapon

But still didn't drop a second dagger

Which is super unlucky

[proven ocean]

zac

do i uipgrade my head

or

[vivid vessel]

So for now these crests were wasted

[vivid vessel]

Ye

Myth head

[proven ocean]

u think so?

i dont wait for 714

or

[vivid vessel]

I mean I wouldn't

[compact narwhal]

how troll is it for HO?

[vivid vessel]

But I know last time you held forever aswell

I just send for prog

[proven ocean]

ye i do hold alot

to be highest ilvl possible

at that time

but idk

might be wrong

[vivid vessel]

Ye but it's a bit troll for prog doing that

But like you can not care

[red zinc]

i got 4 myth tier pieces (2 in bag uncatalyzed) rn

[proven ocean]

ye

true

[red zinc]

kinda nutty

[vivid vessel]

Your way of doing is better for the mid late I guess

[proven ocean]

idk ig

[vivid vessel]

But ye I wouldn't do that

But troll for prog

Head is a good slot to upgrade

[proven ocean]

i sent it fk it

will do last upgr when i get more crests

still got alot to spend

[red zinc]

yeah ur cooked now

[glass mortar]

m+ streamers r a poison to this game

i just wanted to do a key and the only thing i got an inv to was an 11 ara ara

tank "we are pulling all the way to the miniboss dont stop"

we get to the miniboss

[proven ocean]

it prob wont matter tho zac like its low rng i get a 714 helm anyway

[glass mortar]

tank dies insta

[lime lake]

[glass mortar]

everyone gives up

key joever

many such cases

[lime lake]

/ff 15

[glass mortar]

brother r we in mdi

what u pushin bro

pushin ur key down into the ground ig

[thorny reef]

what add on is this it looks really nice

[nocturne talon]

Mads lads, what are your key binds for outlaw rogue ? I have a feeling my key bind alt+mouse button 4 (BTE) is causing me a dps loss.

[glass mortar]

i would not recommend using mods for abilities u spam all the time, quite often many times in a row

but thats just personal pref

i mean all keybinding is

i have my spammy shit on my normal keys then shortish cds and stuff on shift mods then longer cds/consumables/items on alt mods

then targeting stuff on ctr mods

[nocturne talon]

Nice. Thank you.

Which abilities would you consider short cds ??

[glass mortar]

vanish/adr/kir etc

stuff u use like evvery 20-30s

[torpid fiber]

i have bte on shift+dispatch but that's just kinda something i've gotten used to + tartarus means it's not that bad

[compact mountain]

Is there a way to reset cds, to test stuff when trying to learn a new build?

[glass mortar]

hit dummies to churn cdr or queue an arena skirmish and dont use any cds during it

[wintry solar]

You just named everything we got >.>

[covert kestrel]

Almost all failed pugs I've had were due to people trying to get to fancy with shit either pulling way too big or tight skips that are completely unnecessary at the key levels we were doing

Did a priory 12 and the Brewmaster pulled 2 knight packs into the first mini biss

Got everyone yeetus deletus

For no reason

[glass mortar]

WHAT U PUSHIN BROOOO

i gave up for the night

an hour of lfg simulator to get 1 11 invite that lost on first pull

some things never change

[junior coral]

OK SO WE CAN AR BEFORE A RAID BOSS?

or am i doing some thing wrong lol, its taking my combo points away

cant* lol ^^

[wintry solar]

Press it on pull

[glass mortar]

i mean u can

but u will drop to 2 cp on pull

[junior coral]

whats better?>

[glass mortar]

doing it after;/on pull

[junior coral]

did it always do this lol?

[glass mortar]

for awhile anyway

[junior coral]

in DF?

i just dont remember but its been awhile

i swear i was using it before

[glass mortar]

idk

[thorny reef]

when do we replace this belt?

[glass mortar]

when sims tell u to

a belt of similar ilvl can beat it

so u should start simming around there

[thorny reef]

ok cool

ty

[compact mountain]

I think S1 of TWW you could pre-AR and not lose CP, I might be wrong

[granite merlin]

The meta web sites are a cancer to this game

Like everyone 2100 is MDI

[frail veldt]

its the player

not the tool

[glass mortar]

its all of the above

ban the mall

BAN

[frail veldt]

cant ban the player

no matter what you do

the meta will be communicated via discords

or in game chat

or whatever

streamers

[glass mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/paimon-genshin-impact-gif-3908335895994298600

[frail veldt]

competitions

you could maybe mitigate it by having title awards for m+ score be spec specific

[peak dock]

You will instead try to hold :vanish: Vanish for :gs: Ghostly Strike every time, and then send Vanish into GS so you break stealth with GS.
This is because sending GS from stealth gives you 3 of each coin (not a bug).
You still Vanish normally to preserve AR if needed.

excuse me do i have to break stealth with GS? or GS during subterfuge window is ok?

[frail veldt]

break stealth with GS

[torpid fiber]

you have to break stealth with it

[glass mortar]

it needs to be the first button ^

[peak dock]

ty

[daring oxide]

my wife loves it when i call food i eat at nice restaurants giga bis

or meta

[glass mortar]

brother

friend

cuh

you are COOKED

ive managed to keep the discord lingo out of my irl so far

[frail veldt]

I say "good comms" to my gf a lot

[daring oxide]

at a tasting menu where you get like 10 course meals

[frail veldt]

she doesnt find it as funny as I do

"were turning at this next light"

"good comms good comms"

[daring oxide]

i will say when a course is bis

out loud

and waiter is like

eh

[compact mountain]

or 2nd if AR is first, right?

[daring oxide]

'this is absolute bis'

[glass mortar]

if ar and ghostly are off cd then you need to use them both at the same instant

if its not the first button press u dont get the benifits ur trying to get

otherwise if ur not using the macro im not sure maybe u wanna use ghostly first tbh

[daring oxide]

i just have my AR button a macro with /cast ADR /cast GS

to keep it simple

for when they line up

otherwise GS on its own

its a fucking ballache though ngl

tracking and lining these shits up

fml

already got enough t think about

[frail veldt]

yeah tbh you could just replace your adr button with
/cancelaura stealth
/cast adr
/cast gs

[daring oxide]

yeah its that

[torpid fiber]

you should replace it with just /cancelaura stealth

[daring oxide]

just one adr button

doing exactly that

I think as well

[frail veldt]

I did the hard thing and left my GS and Adr binds alone and made two new macros, one is GS + BtE, the other is cancel stealth, adr, gs

LOL

[daring oxide]

in the event where ADR does drop off

[torpid fiber]

i think i'm going to have to make two new binds but i have 0 clue where the fuck they will go

[daring oxide]

we should vanish first when ADR is back up and we aren't at finisher

so

[honest yarrow]

possibly silly question but sometimes i will see people grappling around packs in m+ while fighting despite barely moving and there being no mechanic to move out of, does that proc something or is it just aurafarming

[torpid fiber]

aurafarming

or maybe they got stuck on something

[daring oxide]

ADR is down, not at finisher, then Vanish > ADR

[frail veldt]

yall think adventurer cudgel is still better than full upgraded hero dagger?

[torpid fiber]

idk sometimes you just want to grapple

[glass mortar]

prob

[daring oxide]

they miss old killing spree

so they replicating it

i do it when i get a beam mechanic

i'll grapple and sprint around the target really fast

[daring oxide]

ye

and if u get lucky enough to get veteran

its on par with mythic offhand i think?

[next shuttle]

Is it normal for fatebound to be ahead of trickster in dungeonslice?

[daring oxide]

yes

but in reality

trickster is ahead

[fathom bramble]

trickster is ahead with how most dungeons this season are pulled

[junior coral]

i dont like fatebound for raid lol

[daring oxide]

^

exactly what lokky said

[fathom bramble]

especially with some of the rampant pulling trash into boss behavior

[daring oxide]

ngl i love that

allows me to use deft for extra finishers

nothing worse than pressing SS back to back 5 times

[fathom bramble]

hides our shitty ST behind aoe pad

[daring oxide]

to build

yeah

[fathom bramble]

at least until your in a key with a funnel spec

[daring oxide]

what are funnel specs

aside from assa

[next shuttle]

Trickster is just so annoying sometimes

[fathom bramble]

arcane, sin

[daring oxide]

ah ok

[fathom bramble]

I feel like there is another but I don't recall

[next shuttle]

Specially with target switching

[light dune]

HAVOC

[daring oxide]

honestly how can they actually fix our ST

[fathom bramble]

dh has some funnel I don't remember how good it is

only seen 1 havoc all tier it feels like

[light dune]

i think its like competitive

[compact narwhal]

so HO youre trying for perma 3 buff correct?

[light dune]

with the other funnels

[daring oxide]

just keep rolling until you get 3+ buffs

with SOH

[compact narwhal]

kk ty

[daring oxide]

but

remember

you can only get 3 buffs

due to CTO

normally you either roll 1 2 or 5 buffs

so if u get a natty 5 buff

good enjoy yourself

if u get 2

and fish some CTOs

[compact narwhal]

so dont roll w cto buff, wait til runs out to reroll?

[daring oxide]

well tbh

its a feely thing

sometimes i dont wanna roll away broadsides + TB

especially if i wanna get some CDR in

[compact narwhal]

ye ofc

broad bis

[daring oxide]

it really depends on the situation

yeah

like if im desperate for the CDR to get vanish/adr off cd faster

ill hold those two buffs

or if its a bigger pull and I have GM + RP

i'll enjoy GM+RP for a bit longer

[compact narwhal]

fs ty good sir !

[daring oxide]

that might not be the best practice but to me it feels good...

but tbh

[compact narwhal]

makes sense kinda use whatever u want for situation

[daring oxide]

i haven't touched HO since S2

so i might be wrong too, we were kinda blessed in S2 with peak RTB gameplay

just perma 5 natty +

was a fun ride

[compact mountain]

Yeah, S2 tier was awesome

[compact narwhal]

rip sadge

[daring oxide]

it really was

[compact mountain]

Now I have to learn KIR

and it makes me sad

[daring oxide]

I hope they make S2 tier an apex talent

[compact narwhal]

i like kir its just legit aids no broad

and having to fish for it makes my brain bleed sometimes

[daring oxide]

They should do something like

for our Apex talents

[compact mountain]

Speaking of, can someone summarize the 3 most important points of Kir? I think we don't use ambush at all, right?

[compact narwhal]

im sure HO needs to do it tho but havent played it in a bit, so will be enjoyable to test

[vague cape]

Use blade flurry to generate on aoe, try to use pistol shot inside vanish windows and remember you can wait to kir until lowest rtb is like 0.1s

[compact narwhal]

ye never ambush as kir

[compact mountain]

I got out of the habit of using BF for cp 🙁 by pistol shot do you mean just spamming it, or just using opp procs in vanish?

[vague cape]

Opp procs

[compact narwhal]

only use w opp

[vague cape]

More efficient generator compared to SS

[compact mountain]

So if no procs, bf on CD, just ss

[compact narwhal]

ye

[vague cape]

Bf is higher prio

Assuming it gives you max cp

But ye otherwise that’s all good

Read about new vanish rules

In pins

[compact mountain]

Yeah, that's going to stress me out

I already had GS + BTE macrod, but breaking from stealth with AR+GS feels weird

[junior coral]

some one has to geek out and just talk about outlaw on youtube lol.... rogue youtube midddd

[compact mountain]

ST opener is, from stealth: AR+GS macro > RTB > KIR if at 4+ buffs otherwise BTE spam, right?

[torpid fiber]

we all have the kind of adhd where we don't like watching video guides

[compact mountain]

I hate watching videos for things, unless it's like home repair where I need to actually see the thing I'm supposed to find, I want it written out.

[junior coral]

i just dont have the time to read discord really any time of the day, besides the small window i get for WoW... so video guides are the best atm

it more so listening then watching tbh

[torpid fiber]

imo the best case video guide would be like a script written by a couple people here and then we get someone who isn't a nobody outside of the discord to actually be the one recording/uploading the video

[junior coral]

there are just so many little things, when i was playing hard in DF i learned so much more on discord then the guide pages, but i dont have that time to get the info in here

and yall are crazy good, the info gets lost so quick...

[torpid fiber]

yeah it's hard bc there's like a billion tiny things

and also outlaw has a ton of feelycraft stuff that doesn't change sim results at all but feels better lol

[junior coral]

yea some one just needs to geek out on youtube lmao

[fathom bramble]

video guides also have the issue of easily becoming outdated

[junior coral]

lacking

[daring oxide]

Outlaw Apex Talents:

First point: Your RTB now rolls 2 buffs or more minimum and is always guaranteed to roll at least Broadsides
2nd: Your RTB has a further 20% increased chance of granting additonal matches
3rd: Sinister Strike has an additional 15% chance to hit an additional time
Final point: BTE will always critically hit, and BTE critical strike damage is further increased by your crit chance

[fathom bramble]

and you can't just spam out video guides every 2 weeks when the optimizations change

[junior coral]

yea your right

[torpid fiber]

sounds like what blizzard would do

[fathom bramble]

they could work nicley for like a quickstart or easymode guide, but when you get into the nuance it just changes too often

[junior coral]

Wow just takes so much time to juice the most out of your class

[fathom bramble]

and can't be easily edited like a text guide

[torpid fiber]

I think part of it is also that outlaw is kinda a reps spec

there's not really major conceptual things to it outside of the basics, beyond the rotation i feel like most of what would be in a guide would be "position well for BF" and "greed for uptime"

[junior coral]

im just sad i dont have the time to really get into it... outlaw is so fun when your vibing

[daring oxide]

@fathom bramble have you started thinking about potential outlaw apex talents yet? or you expecting us to get a fairly big rework based on Jade Martin's interview recently?

[stuck magnet]

So I can use that prepull macro for the new vanish rules for Fatebound right?

[fathom bramble]

I kind of came up with 4 that are just all vanish focused the other night lol

[daring oxide]

oh shit I'll search for it

i wanna see

I had hoping they would do it around vanish

[fathom bramble]

Sneaky Opportunity: Casting Vanish or exiting stealth causes your next X sinister strikes to be guaranteed to strike twice
Quiet adrenaline: Casting vanish grants 3/6(2 pointer) seconds of adrenaline rush
Preparation: Vanish and Adrenaline rush both have an additional charge, and grant x% damage for 10 seconds when activated. Multiple applications may overlap.

[daring oxide]

but i have a feeling apex talents would only work with baseline skills right?

I like Quiet Adrenaline tbh

it makes it a lot simpler too

[fathom bramble]

I think the apex talents they teased were on baseline skills

or ones that you are forced to take by the tree design

[daring oxide]

yeah when looking at the

devourer one

seems like its based on abilities you are guaranteed to have

i guess if they went down the vanish route, you'd 100% have to take the vanish stuff in class tree no matter what

[torpid fiber]

apex talent that's just acro
edit: also to make it splashier it also means you can hit enemies you're not facing

[daring oxide]

so i thought ours would be around sinister strike and RTB and BTE

[compact mountain]

acro, for 3>6>9>12 yards

[fathom bramble]

if they had the +1 charge in our apex you wouldn't necessarily need to take the class stuff for it

[daring oxide]

lmao

[fathom bramble]

it would just be about whether subterfuge is strong enough to take anyway

at least with how I wrote those 3 you don't technically need or even significantly benefit from subterfuge directly

[daring oxide]

ah

i see that now

preparation would be nice tbh

[fathom bramble]

so we could get something that keys off of vanish but does not require a full subterfuge build

[random void]

Is it outlaw actually easier to play than assa?

[daring oxide]

so preparation would actualyl give us 3 charges

with the class tree stuff

there would be no way ADR would ever fall off then!

200% uptime!

[fathom bramble]

all the uptime

[torpid fiber]

depends how hard you find sin and how hard you find law

[daring oxide]

i honestly think

[fathom bramble]

you have so long to ponder what spell to press next on sin I swear it can't possibly be harder than law

[daring oxide]

ADR needs to be something else

like

not tied to energy regen

we need that energy baseline

[fathom bramble]

ADR should be reduced cost at the exact rate required to offset the increased spending we do with the lower GCD

[random void]

Is it required to change targets to maintain good dmg?

[fathom bramble]

we cast 25% more stuff during AR so a 20% reduction in ability cost would cover it

[torpid fiber]

not really

[hasty warren]

u mean ard reduce all energy costs ?

[fathom bramble]

then you just move some more energy into our baseline stuff

[trail cove]

No imo

[hasty warren]

sounds better ye

[random void]

I feel like in assa you need to do this a lot to keep big dmg

[fathom bramble]

only small potential issue is that it might mess with people who are use to a spell costing a specific amount of energy somehow idk

it could be 25% increased energy from all sources instead of 20% reduced cost

[hasty warren]

can be good SS proc main gauche too

for energy and damage

[light dune]

with the new change to FB rotation can you macro GS into AR? Or does that sometimes screw up GS timings with vanish? Also, if you vanish and AR / GS come up during subterfuge do you delay AR / GS for next vanish? (assuming AR good duration)

[fathom bramble]

I also wouldn't mind fatal flourish just getting removed from the game

randomized energy regen is doing us no favors

[torpid fiber]

you hold vanish for gs

[light dune]

what about like if you had to vanish earlier to preserve AR uptime, then during the vanish AR or GS come up (lets say you get back to 1 vanish charge just for the question as well)

[hasty warren]

btw I don't get the bte+gs macro

why is it for ?

[torpid fiber]

bug happens sometimes

[hasty warren]

for more coins ?

[torpid fiber]

yeah

[frail veldt]

yeah I didnt get it again this week lol

[glass mortar]

Removed or made 100% chance

No reason for this thing to be rng

[tight kernel]

Any oathsworn gang in here

[fathom bramble]

true

just needs to be a diff number for dagger/slow instead of different % chance like it is now

[drowsy ridge]

Give Outlaw the Weighted Blades passive from the Fangs of the Father to make Daggers viable

[hasty warren]

it's 20 rn ?

[fathom bramble]

5 energy slow, 3.461 energy dagger

or something

[torpid fiber]

daggers are already good ohs

[fathom bramble]

because of the attackpower/weapon damage changes they made a few expacs ago there is no requirement for the weighted blades passive anymore

[wintry solar]

They better not make dagger mh.

[fathom bramble]

they would just need to normalize MG chance

[wintry solar]

Daggers would always be bis

[fathom bramble]

or double dagger would just be better than double slow

[wintry solar]

And would fuck up the loot table

And I couldn't mog dreadblades

[hasty warren]

mog>dmg

[fathom bramble]

the artifact transmog is spec bound and always lets you do it

[olive beacon]

are we supposed to be able to swap weapons in keys? I don't understand the point of the cudgel macro

[drowsy ridge]

Then lets not do that. I didn't know about the weapon damage changes

[fathom bramble]

regardless of what weps are on

[craggy barn]

u can swap weps during keys

[pure folio]

The weapon does not reproc on bosses. So you weapon swap before bosses

[olive beacon]

I've tried and it didn't seem to work

[pure folio]

Your macro is probably wrong then, it works

[craggy barn]

it costs a gcd mid combat

[wintry solar]

Yeah you're locked to THAT artifact for both mh and oh

[torpid fiber]

you can't swap some weapons iirc

[wintry solar]

It's SMF 2.0

[craggy barn]

specific boss weapons

like iron hand form gally

normal stat weapons are typically swappable

[pure folio]

#showtooltip 17
/equipslot 17 Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel
/equipslot 17 (ST Weapon name)

[olive beacon]

OH

my OH is the heroic dim mace

maybe thats why

[pure folio]

ah

maybe

the mace?

[compact mountain]

Is KIR off the gcd?

[pure folio]

Ergospheric Cudgel?

[pure folio]

yes

try this exactly @olive beacon

#showtooltip 17
/equipslot 17 Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel
/equipslot 17 Ergospheric Cudgel

[light dune]

what scenario are you doing Bte GS macro? whats the difference from just vanish -> GS -> BTE?

i thought the macro had to be for AR and GS together

is this 2nd macro optimal?

[pure folio]

"Furthermore... it is possible to try and send GS+BtE at the same time after Vanish, which can also produce some bugged behavior with coins, such as ending up with a 5/3 or 5/2 split of coins."

[olive beacon]

Will do sir, thank you for the cudgel weaving macro

[pure folio]

When you have them lined up, yes AR GS macro > GS BTE macro

such as the opener

[light dune]

ok interesting, ty

[compact narwhal]

ho kinda fun tbh

i hope it can catch up to kir

[covert kestrel]

missed the peak of HO last season

[hasty warren]

kir suprematie

[compact narwhal]

ye was dumb and played feral

xd

[covert kestrel]

im playing feral as an alt this season!

was supposed to be resto but my buddy just loves healing too much

[hasty warren]

feral in key goes crazy dps

[compact narwhal]

idk i really liked it but was difficult bc boomy was really good too

[covert kestrel]

i like their easy cd. setup a couple dots, then just press convoke. so comfy lol

[covert kestrel]

boomy is just so snoozefest

[hasty warren]

seems like cheap assa to me

[light dune]

the outside of vanish fatebound BTE or dispatch logic is the exact same right? nothing changes rotationally there BTE if RP dispatch if not?

[hasty warren]

idk if we still prio dispach over bte

[pure folio]

Fatebound only BTE's out of stealth with RP up or if the BTE crit buff is going to drop

[covert kestrel]

yeah but its not assa so its better

[pure folio]

Other than that, you dispatch because of mean streak

@light dune ^

[light dune]

ok cool thats the same

surely its still vanish at 2 charges right? like after opener? or is there a timeline you wait for GS to come back

[covert kestrel]

some bozo in my heroic pug today whispered me to sell the sigil trinket for 150k

[compact narwhal]

frfr couldnt bring myself to play it

[pure folio]

I'm not entirely sure but I would assume yes, you want to start getting CDR on it so it makes the most sense. I don't believe solo said anything about it not being applied anymore

[compact narwhal]

umm

[torpid fiber]

Solo mentioned that you don't vanish at cap iirc

You'd have to find it but he did answer this question

[compact narwhal]

710 warpclaw simming better than 723 pacemaker? is it bait? simming ds

for HO

[pure folio]

Idk, my warpclaw has been simming higher too

[compact narwhal]

kinda wild ngl

but ig trust sim

[gaunt phoenix]

The opener you vanish with gs

[pure folio]

@gaunt phoenix you mean after your natural steal right

stealth*

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah

[pure folio]

ok though so

Solo i was meaning to ask you

Is there a certain preference on how we open on dimensius? Its so awkward because of the portal breaking us out of stealth

[light dune]

so opeener is GS AR stealth macro thing natural subterfuge -> KS / cdr until GS and then GS vanish?

[gaunt phoenix]

i think everything should still work, you just lose some subterfuge

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[torpid fiber]

the tech is press N and click on a different spec

[sturdy crow]

Burning the vanish cdr feels so wrong

[gaunt phoenix]

the first charge is fairly inconsequential

[light dune]

is it fine to have the AR macro just be AR button and then have 2 seperate BTE keybinds

[pure folio]

the ADR GS will work still even if its not at the start of my stealth?

[light dune]

does being able to press AR without GS macroed into it matter

[sturdy crow]

I found it better to macro gs with vanish

And then sometimes you need to gs separately

[torpid fiber]

I feel like macroing stuff into vanish is troll bc then you can't use it for downtime phases

[pure folio]

You wont get the loaded dice buff with that when your ADR gs lines up @sturdy crow

[torpid fiber]

(Also I want to say that my memory is that macroing into vanish gets you order-of-execution variance?)

[sturdy crow]

Sorry can you explain a bit

[pure folio]

Adrenaline rush guarantees two matches on your next RTB

Sorry wait LMAO

[sturdy crow]

Yeah what does that have to do with macro gs to vanish

I thought I was missing something 🙁

[pure folio]

im an idiot

[sturdy crow]

Haha nws

Wouldn’t be the first time I learned I was doing something completely wrong from this disc. I was so ready.

[light dune]

if you just replace AR button with the AR opener macro would that be completely fine rotationally?

when would we press AR by itself

and not want to pair it with GS

take it a step further and pair the cancel stealth part of the macro into a known fatebound macro

so trickster doesnt break stealth

[sturdy crow]

It’s bad because it’s delaying you sending ga with vanish

Sometimes

[light dune]

the delays incurred by that basically wouldnt matter right? cause if GS got sent with AR then you have 20 seconds to easily farm another GS yeah?

[sturdy crow]

You might ar in a low dps window just cause it’s free and then you but then you are holding a vanish until ga comeback

[light dune]

I guess sometimes you'd overcap?

[sturdy crow]

I don’t think the overcap matters that much compared to getting less gs vanish windows in a fight

Is there an issue with using the cancel stealth ar macro at all times?

Might be another whoopsies moment

[light dune]

I'm just asking cause I don't wanna find another AR keybind I'll keep the 2 bte keybinds haha

so like if its similar im just gonna use the macro for AR but if its worse than I'll figure it out

btw is there any consideration to cast sequence BTE / GS with vanish?

[sturdy crow]

Ignoring the new rules entirely is worth 1.5% on sim so could just pretend you never saw it lol

[sturdy crow]

Idk about sequence but all 3 spells are on 1 button for me and it’s probably wrong but feeeeels good.

[frail veldt]

no

adr gs for more coins only works if its your first press from stealth after vanish or first cast after cancelaura stealth on your opener

[pure folio]

thats what i thought

solo was telling me to still adr gs macro on dimensius i think even tho theres like 1 sec of sub left

im not sure i understand why

[frail veldt]

why not

you should open with adr gs regardless

[pure folio]

i figured

just didnt know if there was a better way

[light dune]

yo mewo saw you talking about this earlier, what would be the downside even to just fully replacing AR with the AR macro for fatebound?

is there a substantial one?

[frail veldt]

technically nothing

as far as I can tell

[pearl topaz]

what % are you missing if you just opener like normal

without trying to trigger bugs

[sturdy crow]

Yeah sometimes you don’t want to gs and ar out of stealth

[torpid fiber]

Mostly the downside is that you're not guaranteed to get lucky coin

[pearl topaz]

its insane that each patch we discover bugs to try and boost damage

[sturdy crow]

So put the macro on your stealth bar and normal ar on normal bar

[hasty warren]

not buggs, feathures

[torpid fiber]

Yep

[daring oxide]

So you get lucky coin instantly

[torpid fiber]

but also sometimes the bugs solve issues with the spec design (here, this means we can guarantee lucky coin in our opener, something that Sin has been able to do since S1 afaik)

[covert kestrel]

is the hallowfall event on the half hour?

And how much do you actually have to participate to get the quest done, is it like the undermine weekly where you have to hit the first reward tier?

[restive obsidian]

alright call me crazy but I think the 4 piece is laggy

for the cd redux

[drowsy jacinth]

how on earth would it be laggy compared to something like hpal dawnlight or uhdk ghouls that spew damage events everywhere?

[frail veldt]

for trickster?

wdym

[restive obsidian]

on fatebound. the cooldown reduction doesn't happen right away

[frail veldt]

ah maybe

Ive heard there were some bugs with it

oh I know

the coin is a projectile

so how lucky coin works

is it spawns somewhere around you

then flies up and flies towards you

so it only applies the cdr once it hits you

[restive obsidian]

that's the dumbest thing lmao

[frail veldt]

its a funky bug that actually causes some serious problems with assa

[restive obsidian]

you're right

and it doesn't appear to reduce when you already have it

ya definitely doesn't reduce when you already have lucky coin

very easy to test with cold blood

[random obsidian]

wish we could trade this season's tierset bonus with previous season's

[late swallow]

And then trade previous season’s with the df s3 set

[random obsidian]

[frail veldt]

Man I hate getting coup at the end of a pack such a waste

I wish FF lasted longer

[light dune]

in this scenario if you have AR up and Vanish, would you hold both for GS (assuming AR is active)?

or do you just AR off CD basically and then would wait for vanish for GS

[frail veldt]

you can but it doesnt affect overall

it doesnt happen often enough

I would say feelscraft

if gs is coming up in like 15 seconds then sure

but if its a full gs then def dont sit on adr

[light dune]

ok that makes sense

so following that that REALLY does not happen often does it

[frail veldt]

it happens surprisingly often actually haha

[light dune]

i guess actually GS AR basically sync up every other cast

[frail veldt]

for me it was almost like every other adr

[gaunt phoenix]

you vanish with gs, you dont vanish with AR without gs

[keen belfry]

Not sure if on topic but just had some ice cream and it ran straight thru me

[light dune]

yeeeee

that makes sense kinda

[frail veldt]

but you would ar on cd if you dont have gs right?

with some margin(like hold ar for 10-15 seconds if gs is soon)

[gaunt phoenix]

you AR on cd if you dont have a vanish charge

[frail veldt]

oh so if you have vanish charge, gs is like over a min cd remaining, you would sit on ar?

[gaunt phoenix]

yep

[light dune]

dope

[gaunt phoenix]

unless AR runs out

[frail veldt]

not if adr is falling off though right

kk

[light dune]

ye

[frail veldt]

wow

thats super wild

did not expect that haha

[light dune]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[light dune]

is macroing gs to everything w/ trickster still relatively "ok"

[glass mortar]

u can LoS it btw

apparently

[light dune]

honestly I dont have the greatest muscle memory to keep track of the trickster conditionals w/ manually pressing GS

[glass mortar]

LoS ur own lucky coin projectile

i think vai was testing it the day they discovered it was a projectile

[eternal ore]

do you guys use max cp KS during ST?

[torpid fiber]

yes

we don't need to use low cp ks anymore ever, it no longer kills us

[eternal ore]

kk thanks!

[sullen wyvern]

Dimensius is such a dogshit dogwater fight for outlaw

Like I might Actually learn sub just to not do that fight as outlaw

it's so dogshit

whoever designed this fight hates outlaw

[torpid fiber]

Yeah

only fight I've ever played on normal and gone "wow this actually might be unplayable for my spec"

[sullen wyvern]

This shit is even worse than tindral

honestly if blizzard is adding these skyriding mechanics into bossfights

mightaswell make AR not lose duration while skyriding

maybe that will be an apex talent

[gaunt phoenix]

this tier is kinda miserable in general

Too many amps

[cedar kernel]

gm brothers

lets see

what could happens in vault

[sullen wyvern]

I honestly dont have any issues with anyfights other than saladbar and dimensius

maybe plexus intermission kinda annoying but outlaw 4 hooks lelelelelle

[low gazelle]

Got the nightfall cleaver instead of the cudgel. RIP. Was so happy for a brief moment

[cedar kernel]

oh no

[gaunt phoenix]

[cedar kernel]

sack?

or wep?

[sullen wyvern]

id sayweapon

since youll be able to buy any trinkets with dinars

[fathom bramble]

where are your delve choices

[sullen wyvern]

delves

[cedar kernel]

i didnt do delves i have been pushing keys for whole weeks

like 75 runs this week iirc

[teal garnet]

If you raid I'd prob take sack, weapons are pretty plentiful

The st trinkets are pretty contested

Worst case you can craft a dagger oh later

[sullen wyvern]

hope we get to buy wepaons from duingeons with dinars

and not only trinkets

[cedar kernel]

i might need to take the wep

i think

the only choice we could have there

[sullen wyvern]

did you simm?

just to make sure

[cedar kernel]

yea i simed

1.0% upgrade for taking wep

in Dslice

[teal garnet]

If you're only worried about keys the wep will easily be better

I think some of the hero track trinkets beat tick sack in DS

But full st I think tick sack is more char power in the long term If you are pushing mythic with early weapons in raid

The fist wep has good haste to

[cedar kernel]

yea

i am not doing raid this season so

[teal garnet]

Wep then for sure

[cedar kernel]

but its hard to decide still, my group want me to do more ST in keys rn

[teal garnet]

I mean if the tick sack sims. Close in dslice then even if it's a Lil worse could be decent

[cedar kernel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4xBiHBm8Kvp9v43f7ixRR8

here

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7A2GhvznPZHR9pBDYvSRoQ

[teal garnet]

Pretty sure it's mostly prio tho

Looks like a gut call tbh, maybe look into the Dagger on hero track from floodgate

That'd probably be your bis if you took tick

Til u could craft

100k for 160k dslice I'd mayhe favor tick if you wanna max it out with crests

If yall consistently run the same group could be good for sure

[tiny bloom]

I dont raid so i wont be getting any of the raid gear. I mainly just M+. What should be the first thing i should craft?

[teal garnet]

Wep

[cedar kernel]

yea fair brothers

i just take tick

giga st

[peak dock]

Can anyone help me with what FTH stands for?

[gaunt phoenix]

fan the hammer

[sullen wyvern]

For the Horde

[hollow coyote]

what am I missing to get coup de grace to show as a weak aura? I coped the audacity wa:

[gaunt phoenix]

you probably need to track if you have 4 stacks of escalating blade, that determines if coup de grace is ready to be casted

[hollow coyote]

yep

just tried that

thanks

[grim spear]

looking at other specs, each point of stat gives them 50+ or 60+

while for us 20+ or 30+

getting weaker every week

[grim spear]

A complete Coup WA needs to track two things: the EB buff and the Coup cooldown.

At the same time, you can also track the remaining duration of the EB buff (for the second Coup from 4pc).

[cinder relic]

EB tracker should just do everything

Mine changes color based on how many stacks

!WA:2!1z1ZVTvsD86(yLfgwP0aButPGcj0iApKK6MKUlsBd5540KvPXMNDAAfl438EVX(nnp)MPZmVe7YpwQriLBv4tiT38jKaXbl(daLLFCGlJS4gReswOkoWPCKlHVZ4NtiSB9b)(oZ3VZN57V)oz2CYMtgmzWXl2J4tJRqt4(4BEfVJqnOBVrx)L3EVkVRhFN(OGNLiK4GhrIVkVDP61fyzM(Oy)qkVmLel9kuC3QfDg4tPrb0JIRCeHHDZNWJy3mukzIVZIlQrDbcDXZHDX8lXr(scnwSQJqI4YCE1jXeryoB4JmxhjN0ObMl2DEEk5XFnUGHJI2oWz53l)sR2fLWrXOMyXnytuu4JIqssCJzSJqb4bjcCnjvIBUliH7Gg4ymN4xjKEuP4HcZNcPASDcCJESiuBmNDn9bVK0UDnyb67bUD0KAXDhQPqEck37r0aSBNaqB0g0S3BLEbyVK61R2MH5BvCNYBU3o8Ky8H4yPnkrsTLahhT6NVVgMuZYDOiXZivf40KwdQvy9kvRvzVcfkwPsxJuARjdhoKXSCmsZMESLmtzoTbhleZ8TROL(2Dp3f4K)(VB(3BahJIQCoqdo)2nW1jvre5mwNWKuSNXAhRzL5yqZCQuU4o7WHBSuCuB3ExiPAAhtijx3K404wU(beXZsIHW9H48O42SRHm0vhXx7((Tx5uivcZJrrpgc6GB83mKLAlJYnVZnVYv7IIjnno5vvF5hRMZoMgJ7GrcS2vREWjAYksooUHmm7GXrKAA3nxGH88aHhdWelTRdjj2nrK4nvF3SQ5upqTUYwTg89TFSzPMe4O3TGAdiKkqsnG4q(HJuXB3d8ko4g6S4NnLAUbWspilPbNMehC8nyFtjULSM5V6uoO51y1KKM4AGo4t0qyXM(ZiJiLq9GUNZB2Bj(CKKLs4ObnyOHLahv3ux2PAPYoB)WTQY(kgg6epTZZFFsGm0EDy5PJaJ0chy28Ldgvx)00Y8tm811)K6Tvz7XPsW(RcBAVBPDlYMC0ngIGCVNKEg1CCWnOzKYEeKPSZ2ZSNpnIY)aRTw7F)H6F7U1A)RFL(3VWQBQ9fl7vSLoujoc1EWLWiZLaovxZEjLzSbmWS3ruEW(CeRZ(PeJSRdHiGxe2LnX)Zjly0SmzYyn4CnXuhxAVQ7S9Ufpz0TwJPDXQYxiufYlW3ID73uepOnuwq8RjdbBkeQwBZ(gVjzhTkt9bEG(I51OgJXsnxxDcMzVtsz5FU6omDNXwv)014Ggy21Q88eehpZMjrrZSFirIhZwaQT1XtR(al1oZElMkWaMQK967vTK67PCuvEj7B9M00iCdKF7A1JOuEOApvw1Jv7REKAxOc6PkIL67)5gKvFO6hOEwgLBg1tYOqkpLVRQAgfwvx1aaj8RR(HzyZ8MU1M0GA6cr3xpOre9On54NNGJ9Bx2APfYBR3k8e9)BKw)B1rVshfDkd56rMtvnK4FqmKFv26UlSsF9wJZA6Qxmkrau(p9tp7SZE9wR93)4p(pCLR8ulRrz4Azmcwbg8GT6Pj3X04PS19tbCCc7jq30hogtxZP2Ha39BBoLTjse(Avs5VayaROomuD0BPAzdnZ9vVWs9JYQ(XGM8pLYp6SZ(pBT2)OwnG43R1e1pr9tTuF07O(zzvV0v15AQFEOxiM0iuwWoIIcoEktpEgw6HKYiCOzyMEwepKnPM2pcjeqXuGEqG)i(M9Cpvtc5knb)lmtpiSt64cFxNiaHOBm7QlzRZGMYPzsKKKB4LbBEpbmqocVXeQxn)gt4wDcx27ObSMhnorqcQzqgG27ElF3vw9(8xan0H5px12CC1VmR6v3X11XalS0XP0d3RO6v58KGtpwcB9LuVAQR)wdlpAGCiw3JsZkC45Z2oiggufA8dhIHWEeEpsyVleDknez(RQrd6nwwypJBG2e8AUSPh7i(m6D4qJ41OqhcKKYVXSV)7ZMaeF90NnbpCc1k0B0aspstgLl7EEpAv2(K4rj3qE689bsFCr9CwHl76KgXuoUeZ8mjZUf5Ckx4ARFYM7))9qId7XntJmtd)1Nm(fzfHwaHoP9CHF5tib9Z)8clT(kSwpkXJ9vhlPU1(gebcAGe4E6OwDBYH55Ae9QuWPyXDHP3xSFzORc4RnzsJFecmp3rxDQM11(fuAtDz598e4MqoNZYlC3fwUNK6Nod96z(DTMLeyxGMW6xxdjm)gjrFrhuelez5CKEWuHbW0l4ot9f58a7VoProojwJdo8INPIADvER06UE6j(eZrUZ8o(Hy)d2unH1SugeMCoefLGN8EDoeXjAl2dEhQ)bcUFikUb8OY5vFIBh4riqOv2wpQFHvwqxVoV6Klqr9jtUS6pQ(tQ)SrE1FXi4Qgb7m2T6E6bymBDDoT0rhQDNu4TYc5HQ9jp8V9K)7

oop

[late swallow]

I was just about to say this

[grim spear]

Also tracking Coup’s cooldown allows your WA to display as the Coup icon when you’re at 4 stacks of EB.

like this

[cinder relic]

Mine just glows when its ready

[grim spear]

no I want the coup icon

[hollow coyote]

I just need a bigger aura to say that it's ready, I don't think it's necessary to track the tier set if I know I just pressed it

[torpid fiber]

I have my coup aura use a different colour glow to any of my other auras

[grim spear]

just make your own, it's simple

[torpid fiber]

I just use the luxthos one but with the glow colour changed bc I'm lazy

[tiny bloom]

what should i craft first if i dont plan to do raid this season?

[rare shoal]

!design

[fallow sonnet]

when simming with this trinket, what am i supposed to set this to? not sure what it means

[cinder relic]

20-30%

[fallow sonnet]

trying to decide whether or not to pick it from vault over other options
ig ill set it to 30% to be less favorable to it just to check what its lowest performance might be like?

[crude anchor]

Is there any known bug where I hit vanish and do not get granted subterfuge

[fallow sonnet]

also do yall normally modify the fight length option much? would setting it to 10 minutes help garner more accurate results or not rlly?

[fallow sonnet]

i swear a couple times recently i hit it and went to spam BtE and it just.. didnt let me even tho i had just used a vanish. checked my talents and it was fine, also never took a clip or checked it out more thoroughly but u mentioning that just made me think of this

[frail veldt]

fights are rarely 10 minutes

haha

so that would be less accurate

[fallow sonnet]

fair

[crude anchor]

its been happening to me from last season

but idk

[dense ruin]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[empty elbow]

Hey friendos I couldnt find it in the faq, but whats everyone's standard opener for raid bosses, like adrenaline rush 10 seconds into the pull timer and then just lose the starting combo points?

[torpid fiber]

!opener

fuck

[empty elbow]

lol thanks bro

[torpid fiber]

That's a fatebound one in the pins and there's one in one of the FAQ things

!prepull

[empty elbow]

err right

[torpid fiber]

Damn

[empty elbow]

sorry i'm meaning for trickster only

cuz I'm on outlaw for soulhunters

nvm im looking at tomelvis and it looks like he's doing it on pull

[torpid fiber]

#1276308344813916261 message

yeah, chomping the cp is really bad

[strong halo]

I started a using a bug consistently and my dps in keys went up like 5-10%

[empty elbow]

ah rthere it is thx superstar

[crude anchor]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/q9aPvMy7GDj4VnKL?fight=last&type=casts&source=1&view=events&start=16111377&end=16178843

Took a look into it, I am literally just not getting subterfuge

I hit vanish, and then no subterfuge

[vagrant saddle]

are u breaking vanish with a trinket?

[crude anchor]

Mmm I might be, I had it macro'd to an old season 1 trinket

[strong halo]

No way trinkets murder subterfuge

[vagrant saddle]

If u do, u dont get sub buff

[strong halo]

That’s insane

[crude anchor]

thats mental

there was that old surekian florish trinket iu sed to use, aso i just chucked the macro in there cuz i was too lazy to track it

[vagrant saddle]

btw the log is private

[strong halo]

Yeah log doesn’t show

[crude anchor]

made it public for u

subterfuge buff tracked

vanish pressed

gonna od another key after removing the trinket from my macro

[woven timber]

yo lads, i have a weird question as a total noob on outlaw: You have this ability "Coup de Grace" that replaces Dispatch, right? Is it an instant cast (e.g: i can insta cast something after it) or do i need for it to wait finish the animation to deal full dmg?

[crude anchor]

Idk how it works on outlaw fully (since i play it 4fun class for weekly keys) but coup is this 1.3s animation thats locked in sub and u have to wait for hte animation to finish

its weird

i imagine it works the same way on outlaw

[torpid fiber]

iirc it has a longer gcd but you don't have to wait until it finishes manually

[woven timber]

I'll go with vvevv's answer, just because it comforts my lazy brain more than actually having to think of doing a 1.3s mental tracker within my what feels like 130 apm rogue action. Thank you both though

[crude anchor]

nah trust him over me

outlaw is my 4fun weekly key spec

[torpid fiber]

It is still annoying bc you have to time the gcd differently

Iirc it's 1.2s without adr and 0.96s with

Which means at 400sqw you have a 200ms window to hit both it and normal adr timing, but then you have to adjust afterwards

(And if you're a masher the difference in gcd length doesn't really matter, so just ignore everything in that message bc it doesn't apply to you)

[small crescent]

11 floodgate

not too shabby

this is with season 2 4set

[lone spear]

floodgate always been a pretty good dungeon for us, just the first pull target cap sadness

[small crescent]

yea haha

[hollow temple]

@vivid vessel au revoir

[honest yarrow]

my pure ST damage on trickster on bosses always feels so stinky man. If i roll bad or dont get good resets on BtE right off the jump it just feels so over

[pearl topaz]

your pure ST damage will feel shitty on fb too

[long barn]

Guys

Quewastion about unseen blades

Its a debuff right?

Spell: 441224

When you get the debuff, thats a guaranteed proc or what?

[strong halo]

That’s really good ngl

I got absolutely dumpstered by a demo lock on a HoA 12, he had 11m overall I was at like 8.5

[honest yarrow]

how much of our damage is tied to our MH ilvl? will replacing a 707 with a 720 be a huge differnece?

[strong halo]

I feel the opposite like I fully pop off perfect rolls back to back BTE procs and I tie people in dps ☠️

[honest yarrow]

i feel good on like first boss ara kara bc i can pad with egg cleave lol but i got my fucking lunch eaten by an ele sham on 2nd boss

full AR uptime the entire fight and my damage was just, eh

[small crescent]

jeez

[cinder relic]

[small crescent]

8.5 is pretty good tho considering it's mostly an aoe dungeon

[strong halo]

I did a 4.2m on swamp face, and was 3rd

[small crescent]

thankfully i have a alt warlock backup lol

[crude anchor]

fixed my issue

turns out it was in fact the fuckass trinket

sorta cringe that that caneven happen but w/e

ty

[ancient cobalt]

u think if i farm a heroic 1 hander and uppie it to 720 it would be worth playin otl on soul hunters

i got 723/720 sub stuff

[fathom bramble]

yes

outlaw very good on soul hunters

[ancient cobalt]

alright ill farm it ty lokie

[fathom bramble]

even if you have a bad outlaw weapon it's like a 3% hit at most

[ancient cobalt]

gotta relearn the law rq shouldnt be too bad by tomorrow night

[vivid vessel]

Hc is 710 cuh

[ancient cobalt]

oh

...

chat there is now way 710 is worth then....

unless......

thoughts?

[vivid vessel]

It's worth if you are a one trick outlaw that plays outlaw very good imo

Cause the fight is also very intensive

And it's easy to play bad on it

Which won't be good for outlaw

[frank finch]

zac

i have an odd request

can you help me

[vivid vessel]

What

[frank finch]

how do i force kir to use ambush in simc when talented

im cooking some odd stuff

[vivid vessel]

You would need a specific apl

Ask lok I know he made one for this case recently

I can't rn

[frank finch]

ight thx

[fathom bramble]

I tried all the cooking and got nowhere

[frank finch]

can i get that apl tho?

[fathom bramble]

but what your looking to do is just add an ambush condition above all the other stealth generators

I didn't save it anywhere

it was just a super basic Ambush if not opportunity up

[frank finch]

dont i need the outlaw apl

where can i get that at

[fathom bramble]

you can run a quick sim and just peel it from the advanced details

[frank finch]

right ty

[fathom bramble]

I can't find the link to do it properly rn

[wintry solar]

6cp outlaw coming back confirmed

(the law requires that I put a disclaimer for the more uninitiated that says that this is, in fact, a joke)

[random void]

Which guide is more accurate right now for outlaw?

[tropic zephyr]

#outlaw-faq forever and always

[random void]

Okay thanks, I’ll look into that. Probably will switch from assa

[dreamy vortex]

im trying out KIR 1FTH and the current guide says not to use ambush? Only use SS? double checking thats correct?

[jolly geyser]

ye

[dreamy vortex]

so make a /cast sinister strike macro to prevent it from swapping to Ambush or?

[vivid vessel]

skipnoz?

[late swallow]

it won't swap to ambush, since you're not talented into it

[vivid vessel]

isnt that guy retired

[dreamy vortex]

ty

[late swallow]

the kir build doesn't run audacity

so just unbind ambush from your stealth bar

and you'll be good

no need for macros

[cinder relic]

@quaint loom is this true?

[late swallow]

bro has a tenet quote in his bio

[jolly geyser]

havent watched Tenet actually

heard it was meh

nolan wise

[late swallow]

definitely an experience

worth a watch at least once I'd say

pattinson steals the show for sure

[jolly geyser]

prolly late weekend night movie for me

[vivid vessel]

idk i loved the mousic

[late swallow]

yeah the score was goated

[vivid vessel]

And pattinson is goated

[late swallow]

gorranson was cooking

[quaint loom]

what is this bit

[quaint loom]

PEAK MOVIE

[vivid vessel]

you play oputlaw ?

[jolly geyser]

he doing the Odyssey score also

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-pattinson-tenet-whats-happeneds-happened-whats-happpeneds-gif-19466506

[late swallow]

yeah he did oppenheimer too

[jolly geyser]

aye

[late swallow]

i think nolan and zimmer parted ways

[quaint loom]

nah but i still play rogue

[vivid vessel]

[cinder relic]

Sub rogue the most fun rogue spec

[digital onyx]

guy with the wisdom

[tribal pagoda]

quick sanity check: I feel like with the current reroll rules I'm munching a lot of loaded dice buffs

using AR for combo points more often than for loaded dice

I guess the nature of KIR is that I'm holding buffs for 45+ seconds so this would necessarily be the case

[torpid fiber]

yeah

It doesn't really matter that you're munching them as long as you have one when you roll

[wintry solar]

only during blades though

[tropic zephyr]

It was caught that KIR 1FTH prefers to let KS finish channeling instead of canceling it (most previous tests were 2FTH). It's not a big deal but I assume it is most related to energy. So at a granular level you may want to let KS finish channeling if it can refill your energy, but perhaps still cancel KS if KIR is ready and you need CTO procs to use it.
Yeah i felt this

KiR 1 FtH can be so energy deprived

brother how am I not sending one button every GCD because of low energy when i'm 6 buffs + adr????

Also how are we on the press KS if it's ready between packs? I do that rn because i've seen some tobfon cooks but idk if it's actually worth

[vivid vessel]

its not

it would be worth if you can farm it back in one subterfuge coming into a back

but otherwise you dont have an opener ks, so you just lose damage and lose fazed uptime etc idk

i dont see how it could be good

[tropic zephyr]

yeah from afar it felt ok especially before packs where you can have 2 subt windows, so if things align you could do something like:
KS on nothing
Subt
farm/spend double coup
vanish
KS

but like

it gotta align

[thick valve]

Zac could you share your profile code for Bagnator?

[vapid sundial]

Ban.

Get him out

Admims

Admims!

[cinder relic]

[lime lake]

[vapid sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-laughing-gif-13031147940704744720

[cinder haven]

Yeah I agree, it’s not worth

Next question is if it’s worth holding ks at end of packs

I guess that is somewhat possible to sim in dslice

[deep sand]

am I being a moron for macroing gs with ss?

[stiff glade]

I've been sending it at end of packs a lot, and it kinda feels bad not being able to spread fazed on the next pack for a while

[vapid sundial]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[cinder haven]

On the other hand maybe you won’t have nimble flurry for the initial crackshot window if you hold

Depends on how long until next pack

[tropic zephyr]

the breakpoint gonna be close cause you lose so many CDR on KS and thus so many UB

[cinder haven]

Yeah there’s a lot of factors

[tropic zephyr]

but it's worth investigating it

[cinder haven]

Don’t think there’s a simple answer

[tropic zephyr]

yeah

[dapper fjord]

so i am aware of the aoe rotation explained in the FAQ but i wanna refine my rotation more. I find that a lot of the time ill have killing spree, coup de grace, vanish, rtb, unseen blade procs, and also be in stealth at the same time. basically what im asking is should i immediately use everything that gives me flawless form stacks and waste combo points or should i weave them in and not waste any cps at all and prioritize finishers

[torpid fiber]

You never use a finisher other than bte in stealth

[dapper fjord]

so if im vanishing i should be optimizing bte casts? even if i have killing spree, coup, and unseen blade procs?

[torpid fiber]

Yes

[wintry solar]

@fathom bramble I just tried to thread the needle to KIR 6 buffs but I was half a second too late and KIR Grand Melee my its lonesome

[torpid fiber]

you are trying to cast bte with 5+ cp as many times as possible in stealth

Iirc following the Unseen Blade SS prio rule is even dps in stealth to normal builder prio, but obviously ignore that rule if you already have coup available

[dapper fjord]

its still best to use all the ways to stack flawless form before doing your vanish bte pump windows right?

[torpid fiber]

Yes afaik, although if you have Unseen Blade procs you don't hold vanish until you've spent them all

[dapper fjord]

wait, dont hold it?

[torpid fiber]

Unseen Blade procs are the ones that mean you're guaranteed to get a coup stack on your next SS

In practice, it's very rare for this to come up if you're already holding vanish for after coup

[dapper fjord]

and you only hold vanish for after coup so you can get as many btes as you can?

[torpid fiber]

It's basically like exactly having a ub stack and going ks ss coup coup ss + gs where it would come up I think

[dapper fjord]

and i find myself geting tons of the ub stacks from killing spree too

should i try to never overcap combo points? like never ever no matter what?

[tropic zephyr]

yes

[torpid fiber]

You don't want to overcap on vanish cd, but as long as you don't do that you hold vanish for after coup if adr wouldn't run out sooner

[dapper fjord]

gotcha

[torpid fiber]

Kinda? You try to avoid it but you still press Sinister strike with 4/5cp (outside of stealth) even though that could overcap with broadsides

[dapper fjord]

but only if thats an ub proccing ss

[tropic zephyr]

Yeah, you always finish at 6+ outside of stealth

[rotund zodiac]

Me sending PS with BS active after doing the first coup 😭

[tropic zephyr]

also keep in mind that a minmax for KiR Trickster is to double coup into vanish. So you want to spend all your UB before vanishing especially when you have chance to get coup

[dapper fjord]

sweet, ive been doling that

[torpid fiber]

No, if you're outside of stealth and have 5 cp you're pressing SS always unless you have ghostly strike or coup available

[dapper fjord]

doing*

[tropic zephyr]

the only time you don't hold vanish for UB is if AR is going to run out and the CDR you'll get won't give you back AR even if you coup

[dapper fjord]

idk why but i dont understand that

[torpid fiber]

they meant FF not UB afaik

There's 3 different trickster buffs

[tropic zephyr]

I mean, if you have UB stack to spend, do it before vanish

But do'nt do it if you AR is going to run out, then just vanish

In the end it's just about maximizing AR uptime

[dapper fjord]

i got that

[torpid fiber]

If we have ub stacks after couping and building to finish do we still hold vanish? That seems wrong

[cobalt sail]

I'm wondering if i should use Incorporeal Warpclaw or cursed stone idol with sigil of the cosmic hunt...

[dapper fjord]

how about coup and killing spree? use those before vanish/bte spam windows

[torpid fiber]

you send ks on cd bc it's highest prio finisher

[dapper fjord]

and the subsequent ub procs all before

[wintry solar]

for those of you down on yalls luck, how much ilvl did it take for yall to replace S2 tier?

[dapper fjord]

690ish

[tropic zephyr]

yeah ofc if you've just double coup you vanish

[rotund zodiac]

Sometimes KS is on CD I use first coup then KS > coup> vanish

Idk if it’s the correct play

[tropic zephyr]

it is

KS is prio before vanish

so if you get KS back after first coup you KS

[tropic zephyr]

to better write this, it would be like:

• if coup is not ready
• if you have UB to spend
• if you don't have 10+ stacks of FF
• if AR is not going to run out
  then hold vanish and spend UB

anyways this should be implicit by following the prio list

[rustic lotus]

I didn’t replace tier at all til I got all new 4pc

It was pain

I pivoted to DH and now I play both 🙁

[rotund zodiac]

What about using RTB after KiR? If I have AR ready to use, is it better to KiR>AR for LD> RTB?

[tropic zephyr]

!container

!kir

[ornate heath]

KIR build compared to HO:

• doesn't use ambush, uses the same builder priority inside and outside of stealth
• is more cp efficient with pistol shot usage (see faq)
• has to use KIR itself as soon as you hit 4 buffs from RTB/CTO
• has an additional reroll logic after pressing KIR (see faq)
• is more punishing if you mess up builder priority at a given moment
• needs 19% haste from rating to reach 25% during adrenaline rush after alacrity
• KIR 1 FTH really likes trickster optimizations, like prioritizing SS when unseen blades are guaranteed (see faq)

[pure folio]

I Imagine that you would

Either way you don’t hold AR

Unless lining up ADR GS as FB

[tropic zephyr]

!rtb

[ornate heath]

How to use RTB
(Assuming season 3 tier and Supercharger)

• Roll if you have 0 or 1 buffs.
• Roll if you have 2 buffs and Loaded Dice is active.
• Roll once asap after pressing KIR, as your buffs don't get rolled away. Use this weakaura to see when your buffs don't get rolled away (yellow border).
• After the KIR roll, continue to watch the weakaura as buffs tick down. As your buffs expire you may hit a point where your remaining buffs are yellow and you can roll again.

[tropic zephyr]

I'd say yes, bot doesn't seem to care for buff duration

i was thinking what about rerolling when buffs are >39s

but i think we don't care about that this season? seems odd tho

[pure folio]

It was never something that was a must

It is still a slight optimization I believe

[tropic zephyr]

i mean it was mentioned still

rn it's not mentioned in the faq or the rtb

[pure folio]

Is that so? Weird. I don’t see why it would change

[tropic zephyr]

well last season there was container fuckery that we don't do anymore tho

you would roll once at 40+ then roll again at <39

[pure folio]

Strange you’re right

I don’t See it either

Must’ve changed

Well Ik what I’ve been doing wrong then :p

[rotund zodiac]

I miss rolling 5 buffs back to back

S2 set

[tropic zephyr]

true

S2 was banger

[pure folio]

Yea it really sucks that it’s gone

I was so used to it

[tropic zephyr]

ngl i kinda hate double coup