outlaw

[vivid vessel]

shit

[buoyant cosmos]

last upgrade

[vivid vessel]

i have to do campaign?

or

[buoyant cosmos]

nah

just 3 more things

I did keys

[mighty pivot]

zac didn't do lfr with 730 cloak

[vivid vessel]

bro

i dont have time to do keys before raid

what else

[buoyant cosmos]

delves

[slate forge]

Tier 1 delves

[buoyant cosmos]

You probably got a thread from demi

[vivid vessel]

i did

do you get one per boss kill

[mighty pivot]

yes

[vivid vessel]

im doing lfr for renown rn anyway

okok

thats fine then

[buoyant cosmos]

easy

solved

no panik

Is the damage buff from the raid rep for each person or the whole raid if someone has it

[gaunt phoenix]

It's individual

[buoyant cosmos]

GOt it

[copper radish]

19.51% haste we made it boys KIR time

[trim hound]

so assuming i understood the pin correctly i can equip my pisslow cudgel in aoe?

and switch on bosses?

[tight kernel]

Bro Punbube was about to gap you

[copper radish]

feel like in raid im pressing everything i need to and we just dead last on boss damage lol

Ele over here doing like 6mil ST like its nothing

[drowsy ridge]

The spec needs help

[shy pecan]

if you press the buttons harder you will deal more dmg

[copper radish]

i think i pressed them so hard i broke my keyboard everything was popping off then i look at the dmg meter and was like uuuuuhhhhhhhhhhh

[waxen scarab]

!log

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[slate forge]

How about nelf pot?

[pure folio]

Is there a way to sim it

My offhand is embellished so idk if it’s worth, even though I’m nelf

[copper radish]

mages doing 75mil arcane barrages on raid bosses is broken

we cant even do a fraction of thatt lol

[jolly geyser]

its a mage,dw

[copper radish]

8mil ST dps

wild to see

[red zinc]

"class does what its good at" omg nerf

[vivid vessel]

@proven ocean before spending any crests this week

[red zinc]

OUTLAW DOES 12M AOE ON EVERY PACK IN SEASON 2, ARCANE MAGES CANT EVEN DO A FRACTION OF THAT WITHOUT CDS

[jolly geyser]

mages matter

[vivid vessel]

hm

but

they

hm

like

you

[red zinc]

good story

[copper radish]

brother did i say nerf them? i said its broken i wish we could do that shit. chill the fuck out

[vivid vessel]

they nerfed outlaw for doing what it was good at tho

[keen belfry]

guys

is havoc dh

[unborn basin]

uncap blade flurry and we'll really show em'

[keen belfry]

not balanced?

[normal forge]

Why outlaw today if u can havoc dh?

[keen belfry]

this was an arakara 16, 11MIL? AS A FUNNEL SPEC? HUH

[gaunt phoenix]

You can sim dungeonroute but remove the bosses

like this

[red zinc]

was he still playing aldrachi

[keen belfry]

yeah

[red zinc]

guh

they probably doubled some spells aura while changing assa on accident

[keen belfry]

look at first boss damage

820MIL?!?!

[red zinc]

maybe i just play havoc then kappa

[gaunt phoenix]

havoc kinda fucks rn

[red zinc]

can it do that to me?

[gaunt phoenix]

🧎‍♂️

[keen belfry]

solo

havoc is a funnel spec

and its doing 1mil overall

11

gg

[red zinc]

the return of tiemyeegoon

great character

[keen belfry]

maybe i need to play awangromp

[glass mortar]

Isn't sin also

And arcane

Me when funnel specs also do top overall

[keen belfry]

arcane is not doing 11mil overall

[glass mortar]

Is it not

Not yet ig

[keen belfry]

sin might be

i think havoc is just better than sin idk, you have to baby sit the sin rogue

[kindred mango]

hey, do we rebuild combo point for the 4 set's second coup de grace (trickster) or do we just send it and it remembers the first one dps wise ?

[copper radish]

arcane doing 8mil overall in my manaforge rn

[red zinc]

you instantly send it if sinister strike is the only builder you can press

[glass mortar]

Havoc can also be squishy tho

It's usually not

[gaunt phoenix]

You try to build cps but if you have to press SS then you rather just send it early

it doesnt copy

[glass mortar]

Takes a specific boss type

[cinder relic]

Sin high key worthless without funnel, havoc is fineish without funnel I feel

[keen belfry]

yeah

havoc can self pilot dmg

assa needs some coordination

[kindred mango]

been thinking about it as the second one eats combo point

[keen belfry]

if u can press AR, KS, pistol shot, blade flurry, do it then send 2nd coup

[kindred mango]

mostly a question regarding raid as i m+ you can just blade flurry in between

[kindred mango]

i thought so ty

[glass mortar]

Havoc trades off like zero stuff for aoe vs st

Very little anyway

So yea it could just be superior to sin

[buoyant cosmos]

Waa gimmie restealth mr tank

[glass mortar]

Our dh plays the same build on every boss in raid and apparently it's optimal

[gaunt phoenix]

i have to absolutely bust my ass to compete with our dh

[glass mortar]

Remember when law could play m+ build on bosses if u forgot to change and still compete st

[keen belfry]

tbf that dh i played with is probs a gamer cause ive never seen that overall from a dh

[glass mortar]

I member

That's dh rn

[buoyant cosmos]

get his btag, do big things

Does subs shadow damage benefit from the DH brand?

[keen belfry]

yeah

[glass mortar]

Any magic damage

Which means anything basically that's not purely physical

[buoyant cosmos]

I don't see why it wouldn't, but you never know

[cinder haven]

Just normal outlaw gameplay then?

[gaunt phoenix]

no !

season 2 i would afk and beat everyone

[keen belfry]

wounded quarry is insane cuhs

his FUNNEL was 12% ofhis dmg

[buoyant cosmos]

built different

[gaunt phoenix]

i do laugh when they funnel it into the priory reflect damage

[buoyant cosmos]

Did you pull the little dudes before the second boss down into the boss?

[cinder haven]

I would also like some prio damage

[buoyant cosmos]

Or just skip him

[keen belfry]

skipped

[copper radish]

those were the days

[buoyant cosmos]

We had a ret pal plank 3 times in a 14 priory to the shield

[cinder haven]

% of bf damage on main target would do nicely

[buoyant cosmos]

you would think they'd learn after months of the same dungeon

[copper radish]

damn bout to go get my DH ready to raid this season lmao

[buoyant cosmos]

We can do it w/ hook right?

[keen belfry]

yeah

[buoyant cosmos]

Cool

[copper radish]

LFG groups are funny. in a normal manaforge. we get to nexus king after one shotting all. someone goes "raid lead is 640 ilvl" and then every1 left lol

[fading hatch]

how is so'leah's trinket if we can get versa? its hard to sim because everything I have is awful. debating between that and hero tier

[stiff vector]

DH funnel=12% overall dmg, outlaw funnel=negative 12% dmg

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-raccoon-absolute-cinema-gif-17862327649353748812

[cinder haven]

Can you get versa in m+ though?

Maybe in raid

[fading hatch]

i've no idea i was just considering it from best case scenario

[cinder haven]

They readded the option to choose stat on raidbots

So you can sim it

[gaunt phoenix]

it is fine

also u dont need vers

especially if you have like 9000 crit 27000 vers

Crit is fine

[cinder haven]

Add it with the box at the top, at whatever ilvl you wanna sim and then near where you choose sim type you can choose what stat you want to sim for the trinket

[fading hatch]

this is enough for me to not take hero gear ty

[cinder haven]

You’ll be able to buy trinkets for dinars eventually as well

[glass timber]

ghostly only gives 3 coins from stealth and not subterfuge, right?

[gaunt phoenix]

yep

[glass timber]

aight thx

[gaunt phoenix]

stealth or vanish

[glass timber]

yea i just accidently sent it in subterfuge, but was unsure if it was correct or not, which it isnt.. xd

[keen belfry]

is this not insane amount of cloak dmg on a raid boss?

9%?

[pastel cedar]

In ST BTE with subterfuge is higher prio than killing spree right?

[buoyant cosmos]

highroll with boots?

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[keen belfry]

is that a highroll?

idk what cloak supposed to do

[gaunt phoenix]

well if you dont have a vanish charge then it is correct

[keen belfry]

my cloak out damaged my killing spree

[glass timber]

well i vanish, bte and then ghostly for some reason...

[gaunt phoenix]

ah

[buoyant cosmos]

Earlier this week someone was talking about a huge disparity in cloak damage between people

Seems like sometimes it'll just go nuts

[keen belfry]

cloak dmg

[delicate saffron]

fatebound on raid 3rd boss or trickster?

[keen belfry]

we build vers + ihave heroic boots

[gaunt phoenix]

we get like this every time there is an important proc

[delicate saffron]

more haste => more spells => more cloak damage i guess?

[keen belfry]

oh i fully know our dmg procs do more dmg than others

i just am shocked itwas 9% of my dmg

thats a lot of dmg

[vivid vessel]

I wonder why we cant freely swap stats on crafted items

[delicate saffron]

solo any ideas on the raid question?

[vivid vessel]

i have been recrafting my ring litteraly twice a day

for outlaw/sub

[keen belfry]

our cloak is our new haste faixer

[vivid vessel]

its getting annoying

[gaunt phoenix]

what is the raid question

[red zinc]

gold sink

[keen belfry]

fixer

[vivid vessel]

i guess idk

[worldly shale]

bro the worst part is

[vivid vessel]

the whole crafting system is already a gold sink

[worldly shale]

artisans

[delicate saffron]

fatebound on raid 3rd boss or trickster?

[worldly shale]

accuity

that shit

[vivid vessel]

ye lol

haha

im always out

[worldly shale]

SAME

[buoyant cosmos]

Whats your second prof?

[red zinc]

crafters have infinite

[vivid vessel]

im glad i leveled up engineer

[buoyant cosmos]

Enchanting can easily get 1000s

[red zinc]

they just supply it for me

[copper radish]

so we have one thing going for us awesome

[vivid vessel]

cause i was farmign the dummy

so i can just do any engineer patron

but i can barely do the alch ones

[worldly shale]

ye im doing patrons

[vivid vessel]

cause i never leveled up alch

[worldly shale]

alch ench

[vivid vessel]

just here for longer flasks

[gaunt phoenix]

Trickster will parse but it's probably "worse"

[worldly shale]

same

[vivid vessel]

[trim hound]

i just got soulhunters trinky ❤️ i just got soulhunters trinky ❤️ i just got soulhunters trinky ❤️ i just got soulhunters trinky ❤️

[gaunt phoenix]

yay

[vivid vessel]

[worldly shale]

YAY

ABOVE TANK DAMAGE INCOMING

WOOOOOOPA

[trim hound]

im feeling like gmail

[vivid vessel]

full of shit?

[fair oak]

[glass timber]

am i reading it right, in boss fight it's doesn't matter if it's stealth since it's not really "true" stealth?

[copper radish]

blood DK parsing 100 looks like outlaw damage RIP

[pure folio]

LOL

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel i got xalath 40% feets

[glass mortar]

one of our scalies played Aug on farm last night @vivid vessel

They checked logs

[willow portal]

lets gooo

nobody touch that pls

[glass mortar]

They taxed our destro lock 700k dps on soul hunters

[hasty warren]

which boss ?

[desert tendon]

Zac never leveled up any profession

But fishing in df

I remember these epic streams

[copper radish]

bro hid the rest to hide thats the bottom of the list lol

[buoyant cosmos]

Seeing augs in queue is wild

[sullen wyvern]

I'm all about parsing baby

adds need to die too

[lime lake]

the more add damage i do the less everyone else can be tempted to pad on adds

[keen belfry]

why is @tepid skiff playing dk

[quaint mauve]

how the might have fallen

[proven ocean]

not good enough on rogue confirmed??

[tepid skiff]

dude i was told

rogue isnt good enough this season

[tepid skiff]

converted to chinese warlock godcomp

sad times

[slate forge]

Got beat by a rogue last season :/

[buoyant cosmos]

squirrel squad has some cooked talent builds

[fathom bramble]

one day people will learn how BF works

[keen belfry]

yoda hates rogues

why

does he not have a clue

or what

[desert tendon]

Rogue s bad

[proven ocean]

once its fixed you'll be back its fine

[tepid skiff]

idk no deathgrip no amz no armor i guess

[random stirrup]

I remember when yoda played outlaw

[desert tendon]

As long as it s not 1st dps by like 10%

Its shiet

[slate forge]

Fotm James again Sadge

[brittle pelican]

Not sure if I'm reading this right, but the 678 cudgel is much better than we thought? Sims says my 720 crafted oh is better than 678 cudgel

[proven ocean]

rogue doesn't die with a rsham btw @tepid skiff

hpala sucks with assa

[tepid skiff]

ya elle not playin h pal past this week

not again not for another season

making us turbo tryhard for same results as an afk priest

[desert tendon]

Elle 😔

[keen belfry]

ill gear my rsham Billeeilish for you guys

[proven ocean]

depends on what class ur playing

if ur on dk sure

but assa needs rsham

so

[desert tendon]

Pooor dude cant onetrick anymore

[proven ocean]

unless u stack full vers and get giga healed off 24/7

for no reason

[tepid skiff]

what rsham do

[lusty sparrow]

Heals

[proven ocean]

increase ur hp

[fathom bramble]

10% max life

[proven ocean]

unless it got changed this tier

[tepid skiff]

oh ya ok

[proven ocean]

i didnt push hard

but

assa does need it at the highest keys

[fathom bramble]

they can easily have it on all 4 non-tanks for any large damage events

and they bring a good damage buff for the team

[gaunt phoenix]

the only way you can really sim it is by running a Dungeonroute but disabling the bosses

in which case the 678 cudgel seems to be worth it

[buoyant cosmos]

from SLT or something else

[gaunt phoenix]

in regular patchwerk sims the vanish reset doesnt work, and in dungeonslice there is no concept of weapon swapping so it looks skewed

[buoyant cosmos]

our Rshaman friend went Rdruid for some reason, it's not going great.

Starting the switch back psy op

[lusty sparrow]

Double coup is as beautiful as as when blizzard took it (hotfixed) from me

[brittle pelican]

Aaah okay thanks

[dawn talon]

no it's definitely a little uglier than it was

[brittle pelican]

I feel like the real vault now is getting the cudgel from nightfall event...

[vivid vessel]

@proven ocean

shoudlers + legs easy

[desert tendon]

5 golds

Gg

Show us tier stats

Noob

[buoyant cosmos]

big boy getting fed

[gaunt phoenix]

make sure your loot spec is outlaw when you do the nightfall lol

[covert kestrel]

lol

[tropic turret]

hey is it hard to learn outlaw ?

[mighty pivot]

3 "outlaw" belts from nightfall so far and something else

[gaunt phoenix]

probably yeah

[proven ocean]

Nice, i just got bis neck that also has avoidance lmao

its not that big in M+ but it'll be fine

[covert kestrel]

it can be, its a high apm spec that is pretty punishing for mistakes, so id say one of the specs with the highest skill floors

[buoyant cosmos]

Catching up to the fast pace can be difficult

[quaint sable]

It can also be overwhelming when having to do mechs as well as looking at ur rotation. Kinda a lot to keep track of.

[buoyant cosmos]

The flow state is peak though

[strong flicker]

pffff

[tropic turret]

okay, and can u recommend me someone who do good guides ?

[willow portal]

salami

[radiant vessel]

[willow portal]

thats not 100% true

[quaint sable]

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/856897810536071208

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble its legit impossible to check if coins are being fucked by the cages on naz right

im trying to look at the log i just did

but the damage of tails

idk

its too variable

[fathom bramble]

surely not impossible

but more data collection than I felt like doing

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel wts

[vivid vessel]

wtf !

thats my neck

[proven ocean]

nope

my neck

[worldly shale]

swapping to outlaw when?

[proven ocean]

wdym its an assa neck too

fixed my vers issue all together

[buoyant cosmos]

only for delves set

[vivid vessel]

i did less damage than a guy playing trickster

so idk

[worldly shale]

bro

[vivid vessel]

i played fb pc to see what would happen tho

[worldly shale]

outlaw chat is just desperation this tier

[vivid vessel]

so im only 12% ahead

not 20%

but ye

weirdge

[brittle pelican]

oh dear god, I don't think it was yesterday cause I was looking for dagger

[buoyant cosmos]

We're gonna be so back when we get our 10% aura buff

and 4% BF nerf

[fathom bramble]

well it's probably our worst raid tier since legion so

[trim hound]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fathom bramble]

it is what it is

[smoky whale]

Hey guys I've recently been raiding with the Outlaw spec in Manaforge, and seeing trams and rating of ppl and a question came to mind

In the 3rd boss of the raid Forgeweaver Araz I just can top like 4,5M dps on my top damage with the spec, and I just see that ppl are doing like 6M or more.

The same thing happens to me with other bosses, where I don't take advantage of all the damage my class offers and it comes out in my simulations. Can you give me some advice on how to deal more damage?

I know it's a bit of an ambiguous question, I know I'm doing my rotations right and I analyze it with the wowanalizer, I have good gear and good rotation, but I feel like I'm missing a good peak to reach the average DPS of the simulations

Thank you for taking the time to read the message and for the tips.

[quaint wharf]

for forgeweaver specifically the amount of ads that spawn depends on ur raid size so that could impact ur dps

[indigo token]

i dont think there's anything more unfun than low keys

its like daycare

[reef forge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[manic wave]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[rapid wave]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dMB5rj2tuu9T5AxqSATJXm - Anyone know why is my raidbots saying this is top gear with 13 haste on outlaw ?!?!

[covert kestrel]

why are you doing a 1 min 1 target patchwork

[ancient cobalt]

lmaooo

[rapid wave]

OMG

IM IDIOT

[gilded tinsel]

[rapid wave]

I switched yday and all day im wondering did raidbots broke and completely forgot about the 1 min...

phew

[worldly shale]

[worldly shale]

ye i swapped assa

might be a sissy move

but cba

[cinder relic]

Yeah this is the worst outlaw tier in a long time

[unborn basin]

pshhh until I'm last in dps meters in my raid team I'm gonna play it

[magic shuttle]

seems alrighton soul hunters and fraactillus at least

[ancient cobalt]

is it worse than fyrakk tier though.. and tindral

[vivid vessel]

ye it is

way worse lol

[ancient cobalt]

goddam

[vivid vessel]

outlaw was quite good in admi

it was just bad on tindral

dimensuis

is tindral but 10 times worse

and outlaw is just bad on every boss

so

is this cata charges

[magic shuttle]

spark charges

[vivid vessel]

ah

[tender breach]

the lutenants in priory are eligible for the nightfall gudgel?

[vivid vessel]

can you just not see cata charges

[lime lake]

[vivid vessel]

outisde of being at the thingy

[tender breach]

or are bosses

[vivid vessel]

yo bel

[lime lake]

yeah cant track cata

[vivid vessel]

fuck you noob

[lime lake]

or threads

[vivid vessel]

thats crazy

threads i have the macro to open the thing

[lime lake]

idk why they specifically added a currency to track sparks but not those two

despite those also being currencies

[vivid vessel]

i guess there is maybe a macro to open the catalyst from affar

[lime lake]

like ???

[mighty pivot]

developers

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/developers-gif-13292051

[worldly shale]

HOLY SCHMOOOLY

[viscid forge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[south scaffold]

guys, is a 678 nightfall cudgel really better then a 704 weapon in a offhand? in m+ off course

[craggy quiver]

in m+ ya

[south scaffold]

even the 678 one? okay

[craggy quiver]

but you swap to a better offhand on boss

the proc resets every vanish

but not on boss

[south scaffold]

so, im good to go with my adventurer track weapon in m+, allright

[craggy quiver]

ye

[sudden fulcrum]

You can get a better cudgel now I think

[craggy quiver]

just swap at boss

you have one chance a week

from bag

[heavy shadow]

Christ Dimenius fight is just awful for outlaw

In my raid I was doing fine on dmg meter all through compared to rest and it's tanked here

[tight kernel]

The 678 is still good over myth weps

So yeah you’re chill

[gusty cipher]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[hasty warren]

!def

[ornate heath]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[gritty hamlet]

Daggers being useable wouldn't break things these days since weapon speed doesn't matter like Cata right?

[slate forge]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[gritty hamlet]

I'm still wondering if the outlaw rogue using a dagger main hand is a hint for a rework like unholy is getting

[sturdy phoenix]

Hi guys, was wondering if it was possible to try to get the Nightfall Curseblades Cudgel 691 every week or it's a one shot chance ?

[glass mortar]

seems more likely its the rework of the mogging system

but u never know the game could always use more dagger equipers

[worldly shale]

dagger mainhand, rope offhand

[polar niche]

oneshot

[glass mortar]

u can do it every week

its the weekly quest

that has a chance to drop it

[cinder relic]

Considering the Devs have talked about outlaw being too complex without weakauras, I'm almost certain the spec is getting some sort of larger look at in midnight

[gritty hamlet]

Gods I'm excited for alpha to see if they make outlaw easier to track as an outsider

[glass mortar]

yea i dont think its gunna include us using a dagger mh tho

[worldly shale]

rtb gone feelsbadman

[cinder relic]

The video literally has rtb in it

[glass mortar]

i think not getting some pretty big changes in 12.0 would be surprising

[worldly shale]

XD

[gritty hamlet]

Rtb might be less random though

[lime lake]

rtb gone feelsbadman

[sturdy phoenix]

Thanks !

[cinder relic]

They might. Dagger MH would open up the spec a lot for crafting

[glass mortar]

it would yea but its just a bit

odd idk i like rogue having a non dagger spec

[lime lake]

i think it was likely just a transmog thing

[glass mortar]

of all the things that dont scream outlaw to me

its dagger mh

[lime lake]

but it would be very good for outlaw to be able to dagger mh

[glass mortar]

thats like the assassination core fantasy

[gritty hamlet]

They could let sub use a non dagger MH too

[glass mortar]

i do think there should be more dagger specs

they could let feral use daggers

like their artifact was

[lime lake]

[gritty hamlet]

Sub outlaw either, sin hard dagger

[lime lake]

sorry cats cant have claws anymore

gg

cats get sticks

[polar niche]

we are realy so bad this season?

[cinder relic]

Sub and sin are very good

Is part of the issue

It's not that bad Imo but it doesn't have any overwhelming strengths that the other two specs have atm

[covert kestrel]

so we only need the opener macro not the second one in the pin for fb right

[white marten]

Outlaw is getting reworked to bar fighter. Knuckes only.

[glass mortar]

the opener macro is all u need yea

[smoky whale]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[warped tide]

hey outlawers im wondering why this trinket sims sooo bad but performs very well in keys? it just seems so odd its like 150k loss in a dslice

[glass mortar]

it doesnt have any primary stat

its overall needs to be inflated to even be a real trinket

dont get baited by details

it also has ur worst stat on it

[warped tide]

yeah but still it does around 500m a key on average

[glass mortar]

sure

and all ur other abilities are doing ~3% less or w/e damage because it doesnt have any primary stat on it and way less secondary then a primary stat trinket would have

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble we almost killed before last intermission on soul hunter

next weeek you do

outlaw is going to skyrocket

[warped tide]

hmm yeah okay i see

[vivid vessel]

when you do that

[fathom bramble]

huge outlaw value on the 12 pull boss

[vivid vessel]

i just mean huge log value !

[normal aurora]

Hey folks, i'm currently using the macro to do the following in an HO build->
/cancelaura stealth
/cast Adrenaline Rush
/cast Ghostly Strike
What i'm finding is the cancelaura stealth is required for the 6 FB coins (only get 5 otherwise). However, if i cancelaura stealth twice (spam the button), i lose my stealth bar. Like its canceling my stealth bar while in subterfuge window. Is there a modification i can make to fix this?

or i may have misread and the cancel aura is only needed for opener

[glass mortar]

its only needed for the opener

you can also use it if AR and ghostly ever naturally align for a vanish but the cancelaura part shouldnt be changing your bar... that is pretty weird

[heavy shadow]

does cancel aura impact the subt window though?

[glass mortar]

are you sure u are actually in subterfuge with no stealth bar? if you use a trinket to break stealth before pressing this you wont gain subterfuge

[frail veldt]

oh whaaat thats weird

[glass mortar]

no subterfuge isnt stealth

[frail veldt]

Ive had this bug in the past but I thought they fixed it

[glass mortar]

cancelauras remove a buff from you, the buff you name

subterfuge =/= stealth

[frail veldt]

well I had a bug a while back where if I tried the cancelaura ->adr thing it would bug out my stealth bar as well

and I didnt have access to my stealth bar

[glass mortar]

thats very strange yea

[frail veldt]

specifically when I was playing HO

but as KiR it doesnt matter

cuz you dont have a steatlh bar as KiR

[normal aurora]

it appears to only take away your stealth bar, you keep the subterfuge window. Its noticable in HO because you use ambush in stealth bar

[frail veldt]

so maybe we just arent noticing this bug

[glass mortar]

yea not sure if theres any fix then

[frail veldt]

Cuz I def had this in the past

[glass mortar]

other then playing the better build

[red zinc]

why havent they made gold warbound transferable yet

like

[frail veldt]

the solution is to bind ambush to a non stealth bar hotkey

[red zinc]

warband bank extra step is so unnecessary

[frail veldt]

thats how I bypassed it last time

@cinder relic have you been playing enough HO with this macro to experience this?

@vivid vessel how delayed is the second UB? whenever im going from 2->3 EB stacks I feel like I should delay my gcd to see if the 2 set procs and it feels fucking awful but im wondering how long I should actually be waiting. It feels like sometimes it comes like a whole gcd late

[frail veldt]

code limitation probably

I had this same question when it first came out

[fathom bramble]

it definitely can be a whole GCD late

[frail veldt]

so dumb

[fathom bramble]

I've managed to sneak in a dispatch before the 4th stack of unseen hits

[frail veldt]

well the problem is when I want to vanish

after a 2->3

then it procs

and im in vanish

wiht coup

[fathom bramble]

yep

[frail veldt]

like an idiot

so Ive just been delaying my gcd

[vivid vessel]

up to 1s

[frail veldt]

....

[vivid vessel]

is hwat i have seen

[frail veldt]

lovely

so I just have to delay my gcds

or just dispatch or something instead of vanishing

and delay my vanish

I hate our 2pc haha

[cinder relic]

I have played zero outlaw this season

I usually wait until I have gear to setup to bother with how prog usually goes these days

Especially with haste cap

[glass mortar]

insert ret paladin joke here

😠

[frail veldt]

makes sense

[cinder relic]

Too much headache when trying to play a spec 4fhn

[glass mortar]

oh fuk thats right i need to figure out how to drop 0.05% haste from my profile now

[white marten]

You still havent done that yet?

[glass mortar]

i went to bed right after hitting 19.10%

my math was off

[white marten]

Oof. Youre better off rerolling buddy . Better luck next expac

[hasty warren]

https://fr.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HvZAkVLgcGf2BXWY?fight=41&type=resources&source=55&view=events&spell=103
Why I went to 11 energy at pull ???

[tropic zephyr]

Yeah this sucks, awful proc to play around

[eternal iron]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[elder phoenix]

how do you make it in warcraft logs where it only logs YOU when you're not in a group

?

[glass mortar]

u went to 11 energy after casting RtB > ghostly > BtE > SS X 2

maybe bellow average FF proc rate but im not sure whats super odd here?

[gaunt phoenix]

bad luck

but you should AR before RTB

for loaded dice

you are also a bit low on haste

this can still happen with proper haste but you know

[quaint mauve]

would u guys take stone idol for the mob cage guy in raid

[gaunt phoenix]

meh

[tender wedge]

I would take stone idol and drop it into the bottom of mount doom if I could

[buoyant cosmos]

when you type /combatlog it should start a text file inside of the main install folder under Logs

[elder phoenix]

Yeah i know that but when i uploaded it

It tracks other people with me

Im jsut trying to log and see my rotation with dummies

[buoyant cosmos]

Why not go to a empty city?

[hasty warren]

so opener is macro > crackshot windows > rtb ?

$

[glass mortar]

opener is macro > RtB > do the rest of the rotation

u certainly dont wanna do a full crackshot window with no Rtb buffs at all

[keen belfry]

@vivid vessel do u have vod of how to do 1st boss psf as melee comp

pugs = cooked uptime

[vivid vessel]

no

[keen belfry]

well get one

[vivid vessel]

ok

but we go left

so

[keen belfry]

interesting

do you think tahts the play

cuz MAN i legit cant hit boss in pugs

[vivid vessel]

no idea

[keen belfry]

its probs much slower

but maybe us ave the time on boss?

[daring oxide]

left is way better

right is annoying af

fire shit everywhere

[glass mortar]

oh u mean with fire lady

[daring oxide]

and the tanks dont move

so boss just has a spa day in fire

[glass mortar]

yea if the tank decides to have fire npc active thats a surrender vote angle from me fam

i came here to have fun

and u chose no fun

[daring oxide]

ye

[glass mortar]

😠

fuck that add

[daring oxide]

/abandon key

why do they even go that way

i feel like left is always easier

[glass mortar]

i guess the route is allegedly better now?

and every tank in lfg will follow whatever route their favorite m+ streamer did so

regardless of if its 0.0000015% more efficient it will become the only route by the end of the season

[rich sparrow]

So I’m only thinking about vanish in relation to GS now?

Or does pin mean forgot about the supercharger interaction and do that instead but still do the vanish at end of AR

[glass mortar]

u still vanish if AR would time out

[red zinc]

alt gearing pretty chill now

got to 684 in like an hour and a half

would be way faster if crafting orders werent so annoyin

[glass mortar]

thats y i just craft everything myself

all it takes is slow grinding out 10 professions s1

actually i lied i still dont have a JC to this day

cba with any more profession nonsense this expac

[keen belfry]

I now have 2 sub rings

Is it gg

[proven ocean]

what

sounds like skill issue

unless the pugs ur playing with are microwaved

its giga free to atk

[keen belfry]

King

In what world is a caster standing in fire and ground slam surrounded my fire circles free

Pugs are microwave a bit

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel u had issues with not atking boss on 1st boss priory?

feel like its usually ok

[glass steeple]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[vivid vessel]

no not really

[glass mortar]

i mean awang specified pugs

i aint done a priory this season where anyone tried to organize that boss

the moment fire starts every melee is schitzo strafe spaming around the boss

its a nightmare

not a difficult mechanic to have uptime for if u organize it for 5s tho

[proven ocean]

@keen belfry

see

idk what ur talking about awang

boss is free

especially on rogue

all 3 specs easily dps it

[keen belfry]

zac goes left

[sudden fulcrum]

in 2025?

[restive turtle]

Wait is Fatebound supposed to be simming better in dungeonslice with the new rules?

[frank finch]

yes

[haughty wigeon]

Then / abandon when someone dies

[proven ocean]

one of the chinese guys forgot to vantus @vivid vessel

vantus rune confirmed not needed no cappy

[vivid vessel]

it bugs out if you faction transfer i think

[proven ocean]

i see

[leaden hazel]

!gear

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406175771495759952/outlaw.webp

[buoyant cosmos]

right is a psy op

[prime cloud]

!tier

rip - when do we break the old tier?

or #just sim

[quaint mauve]

i feel like i go into a key

[buoyant cosmos]

2pc/2pc for fatebound 4pc for trickster

[quaint mauve]

and my tanks are all abusing substances

bc you can’t do things like this while in the right state of mind

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel yo check this out

2 gcds later the buff is gone

u have capped buff tracker or

nah something is 100% off

after 5 sec

[vivid vessel]

what

[proven ocean]

look at trinket buff zac

it disappeared

on ur vod

[vivid vessel]

its an orb you pick up

transform into another buff

[proven ocean]

thats the buff ?

it shows that theres an orb

ah

i see

[eternal iron]

!pre

[vivid vessel]

this one is the actual buff

[proven ocean]

ye

okok

was just making sure

man

i cant wait for legion remiax

its legit gonna be a banger

[finite apex]

praying they add outlaw magetower as a reward

like a recolor or something

[stuck patrol]

Y'all see those interviews where a blizzard dude mentioned big reworks for outlaw and unholy DK on midnight due to weakauras being gutted?

[finite apex]

link?

[stuck patrol]

Recolor maybe, otherwise they already said it isn't happening

[fathom bramble]

I don't think that's exactly what he said

[finite apex]

well thats tragic

[stuck patrol]

Well he implied it

[fathom bramble]

especially since WA won't even be gutted(yet)

they are just making improvements to the base ui with the cooldown tracker and damage meter

[stuck patrol]

The weakaura part was just me, the interview just said they wanted to make specs more "approachable" while leaving room for skill expression

And mentioned that unholy and outlaw really needed add ons to play

[stuck patrol]

https://youtu.be/VjYGetutbD0?si=3RYZKGzpRCyNI2_W

[daring oxide]

@vivid vessel nice neck

unlucky m8 🙁

[wintry solar]

I'd wager its just KiR deletion tbh. Everything will remain largely the same.

[vivid vessel]

dude

its so cringe

i got 3 useless items

[lime lake]

they used the words "does it need to exist"

outlaw is getting deleted

[vivid vessel]

i swear every other item is an upgrade

[lime lake]

not even a rework its just gone

gg

[vivid vessel]

i still have 0 mythic piece of tier

like idk

gg

[proven ocean]

ty bro

[wintry solar]

You're saying I'm finally free?

[daring oxide]

dam thats fucking hot gg

[proven ocean]

gg no cappy

[drowsy jacinth]

I don't think they want to delete KiR given that they're trying to push people into playing it. I think the whole buff stack tracking system needs to be made more legible in general, the reroll/kir rules for outlaw aren't that bad anymore

[worldly shale]

omg got another one!

duo!

double!

WOWSIES

[proven ocean]

Mekre
[BRUV]
— 3:11 AM
omg got another one!
duo!
double!
WOWSIES

[fathom bramble]

with the current buff tracker on the ptr I'm pretty sure kir is solved by just unhiding the container buff

[wintry solar]

Reroll rules aren't bad at all

Yeah

[fathom bramble]

as far as requiring addons goes

[stuck patrol]

Honestly I don't know why people complain about rtbs

It's so easy

[proven ocean]

no idea what the reroll rules are most of the time when i main outlaw cuz they dont matter cuh no cappy

[daring oxide]

@vivid vessel they probably made the hardmode myth loot untradable to avoid armor stack boosting?

[proven ocean]

maybe theyt do now idk

[stuck patrol]

Like people ask for an add on to tell them when to reroll

Like use your eyes and brain

I hate complicated specs and rtb isn't complicated

Like damn

[worldly shale]

just give me broadside all the time

[frail veldt]

you wouldnt know now would you

lol

[vivid vessel]

bro tf i care about boosting

it makes it so cringe

like

[daring oxide]

i know its cringe

[vivid vessel]

healer could have traded neck

[daring oxide]

i feels awful doing it

tbh

yeah

[vivid vessel]

monksea could have traded weapon

hafl the things we could trade

[daring oxide]

oh

monksea got the fist weapon?

[stuck patrol]

Monkey paw. You get broadsides all the time, but we now have 20 combo points

[vivid vessel]

y

[daring oxide]

ah ufck

that would be nuts for u

[proven ocean]

ah ufck
that would be nuts for u

[daring oxide]

xd

[worldly shale]

:ALERT: what the helly :ALERT:
[OSRS]
— 01:13
ah ufck
that would be nuts for u

[daring oxide]

@proven ocean outlaw buff soon right?

next week

[proven ocean]

yeye

no cappy

[daring oxide]

10% aura

[proven ocean]

big buffs

[lament idol]

Oh good don't have to panic about Outlaw yet

[worldly shale]

ss does 10% more damage

so no broadside

6ss

does

damage

!

[proven ocean]

why are u typing like me

?

[daring oxide]

?

[worldly shale]

who are u

?

[fathom bramble]

I miss when blizzard announced things with normal blog posts and blizzcon panels

[lament idol]

How come our ST so low though

[proven ocean]

dont who are u me

what the helly

[finite apex]

LOL

[fathom bramble]

finding literally anything in this demonic announcement plan around gamescom is hell

[worldly shale]

[daring oxide]

apparently, they are gonna release blog posts about the spec reworks (Jade Martin said so for Outlaw + unholy)

[finite apex]

get his ass @worldly shale

[fathom bramble]

just random interviews with 17 random topics covered

[proven ocean]

here

[fathom bramble]

and I can't find the right one

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/big-chungus-eating-watermelon-gif-15291020

[wintry solar]

They looked like they didn't want to be on the panel lol

[daring oxide]

its part of the game, they want you searching them up more in google for maximum activity

[wintry solar]

They were more happy during interviews

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/winnie-the-pooh-hungry-yummy-nom-nom-hangry-gif-6804937551847026409

[fathom bramble]

they could at least organize and transcribe the interviews for publication in 1 spot

[daring oxide]

yeah

[fathom bramble]

if interviews are more fun and personal

[daring oxide]

its really inaccessible tbh

the way everything been done

maybe its on purpose

[buoyant cosmos]

It took a day or two but I think mmo champ did a pretty good job of that

[daring oxide]

so no promises can be recorded

[buoyant cosmos]

I get that blizz should probably just do it from the start

[fathom bramble]

yeah I just found the mmo-champ recap

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/13607-World-of-Warcraft-Midnight-Gamescom-2025-Recap

[wintry solar]

Either kir is pushing up daisies and there's like 3 qol changes or there's a rework that'll cause whysper to lock the channel down

Idk what would cause that but that's what I'm betting

[fathom bramble]

I can think of a few things that would cause an insane uproar

and/or entirely ruin the spec in my eyes

[wintry solar]

Crackshot deleted is the only thing

I can think of

[vivid vessel]

i dont think they would delete crackshot

its one of the best thing that happened to outlaw in like 4 expac

both in term of gameplay

and in term of damage profile

[next wedge]

they make mastery a real stat

[vivid vessel]

i can understand nukling uuh

but the crackshot ace thing

nah

i think thats staying

[fathom bramble]

just random things that gut skill expression in the name of making the spec more approachable

[smoky lotus]

make haste affect ace proc chance so I can just press bte during lust

[vivid vessel]

maybe they uncouple it from vanish tho

i could see that

[wintry solar]

Yeah

Maybe rtb or something idk

[vivid vessel]

i have so many ideas to make the spec more approachable

[daring oxide]

@fathom bramble https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/?page=2#:~:text=Class Design,in the story.

[wintry solar]

Or give it it's own button

[next wedge]

give us shadow dance back!

[vivid vessel]

without nerfing the high end gameplay at all

just giving infintie energy is one

[worldly shale]

u turned a switch in my head

[daring oxide]

share pls

[worldly shale]

i imagined that

[fathom bramble]

I did actually find this eventually, but thank you

[vivid vessel]

litteraly the easiest change

to make the sped so easy for noob

[daring oxide]

ah sorry i didnt see your earlier message

[vivid vessel]

and change nothing for us

[daring oxide]

was looking for you 😄

[proven ocean]

ngl i dont think thats gonna change logs much other than improve bad rng lol

like

if outlaw gets infinite energy

[buoyant cosmos]

homie alert

[proven ocean]

it wont be op

imo

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[proven ocean]

maybe im wrong

idk

but

[vivid vessel]

i dont think if you give infinite energy to outlaw rn

[proven ocean]

it wont be op i think

[vivid vessel]

much changes

[proven ocean]

ye

[vivid vessel]

there is a reason we never pick vigor

[next wedge]

maybe they get rid of RTB because rn the only way to use that shit is weakauras

[vivid vessel]

but it does make outlaw wayyy less punishing

and wayyyy

[fathom bramble]

that's a kir problem

[vivid vessel]

easier to play

for noobs

[proven ocean]

ye

[fathom bramble]

RTB itself is already fixed with the buff/cooldown manager that they made

with no other changes

[vivid vessel]

nah i need one change

i didnt see them sayign you can make additional buffs bar

[proven ocean]

ngl zac

[vivid vessel]

like i want my rtb buffs to be isolated

[proven ocean]

i think it will make outlaw more fun to play

[fathom bramble]

half of your guys WAs look exactly like the buff/CD manager anyway

[proven ocean]

infinite energy

no bad feel downtime

it wont break the spec too

liek

at all

[vivid vessel]

ye of course i mean

[proven ocean]

like

zac

imagine

DF infinite energy

TWW infinite energy

legit both of thhem doesnt break outlaw

[wintry solar]

I started using blizzs ui ngl

Other than the container wa

And ub tracker

[buoyant cosmos]

It would be cool if I could make blizz unitframes like pitbull

Animated portraits are a really neat touch

[fathom bramble]

nameplates are also getting improvements

we will see how it plays out

[vivid vessel]

did you see the previews lok

it looks very promising

im ngl

[fathom bramble]

not of the nameplates

[vivid vessel]

like i could use them, i only need one thing

i need to be able to color plates per mob

[proven ocean]

ye

i like

[buoyant cosmos]

It's pretty much plater iirc

[vivid vessel]

@brittle siren

@fathom bramble

who tf is lokes

[proven ocean]

lokes

[vivid vessel]

and why is he always there when i wanna tag lok

this ping system is so trash

[frank finch]

100 % u wont be able to color code mobs

[fathom bramble]

nice improvement over the current base

[vivid vessel]

i mean if an addon can do it tho

you legit stop using plater

and have just a super lightweight addon

that can do that

idk

its kinda isnane

[torpid fiber]

my worry is that I won't be able to properly make them large the way I like nameplates to be

[buoyant cosmos]

A ton of wow players are old, I can't imagine them forgetting to let you change the scale

[vivid vessel]

you know what i wish wow did

[junior coral]

so as fate bound... if you roll the bones near the boss it pulls it and take you out of stealth huh

[vivid vessel]

rework the world markers

[molten flicker]

Those frames look a lot like the nameplates I made for my plater profile in shadowlands

[vivid vessel]

i wanna be able to see them

[junior coral]

and like gets ride of youe combo pooints from AR?

[torpid fiber]

I'm not old I'm just really bad at accurate mouseovering on small frames

[vivid vessel]

I want to see wow world markers like you can see ff14 ones

like these things

you cant miss

[buoyant cosmos]

I'm saying because they'll want bigger scale to make it easier to see it should be included

[vivid vessel]

wow world markers are legit invisible

[fathom bramble]

there is a size slider in the screenshot

I assume they can get large enough

[torpid fiber]

Yeah I'm hopeful

[next wedge]

damn wanna hop on my account and clear some mythic bosses

[torpid fiber]

ff14 world markers are cool but you can't place them during combat and they dont have pings

[torpid fiber]

sorry we're not close enough for that

[next wedge]

hopeful would do it for me

[torpid fiber]

Ff14 added chat message bubbles showing above character heads recently but they specifically made it not work in combat

[red zinc]

man ive seen some pug group leaders create disco bombs by placing all markers on one spot at once with a macro

i dont want to know what nuclear fission reactors they can create with these

[torpid fiber]

The way I've seen fractilus normal done is pugs is the raid leader uses all 8 markers to indicate the safe lane

[grizzled dome]

hey, on M+ we never use ambush ? we only use sinister strike ? is that correct ?

[torpid fiber]

If you're playing Keep It Rolling, you never press ambush in any situation or target count

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[torpid fiber]

Ugh what's the command

!ambush

[ornate heath]

It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[grizzled dome]

tysm

[light dune]

yo what do you guys do in this situation:

AR at like 1.5 second duration remaining but cooldown at like 1:10, at full CP, coup de grace active. Vanish charge active.

Do you coup Vanish ignore 2nd coup? coup in subterfuge?

coup vanish coup first global of vanish?

[torpid fiber]

I'm probably hitting Vanish there and going for bte spam -> coup when I get out

[strange kelp]

You can't, but the mod can.

[vivid vessel]

do we get another craft next week or

[fathom bramble]

yes

[vivid vessel]

hm

ok

[torpid fiber]

Although, bc of flawless form it's weird

My gut is that wasting the second coup and not having full combo points is worse than the gain from having flawless form going into vanish

[light dune]

In play I've been wasting the 2nd coup charge basically for the FF in vanish and ignoring but yeah that sounds good too

[torpid fiber]

I tend to play for adr uptime as my defining goal, and I think vanishing there is higher adr uptime

[granite merlin]

Oooo I came in here to ask these questions

I just got 4pc and I try not to SS so I have sometimes been sending French eviscerate at low combos

It feels…..bad

[proven ocean]

what u wanna craft