outlaw

[frail veldt]

thats pretty normal

[autumn dragon]

alos getting 6 buff feels like way harded rn

[frail veldt]

it is way harder

we lost 4 set

[hasty night]

Dont forget chain pulling when last mob has 5%hp

[frail veldt]

but again no matter how bad your tank is you can get over 90% adr uptime in a key

[autumn dragon]

yes XD

[frail veldt]

so if your adr uptime is really low then its likely rotational issues

causing low damage

[autumn dragon]

that is defo a thing on my last 3 keys

i was 70%

[frail veldt]

yeah thats very low

!commonmistakes

[ornate heath]

Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.

[frail veldt]

#outlaw-faq

[rich moon]

also if you die for any reason when you just recently used AR you'll be screwed the next 2ish minutes

so don't die

[vivid vessel]

ok calm down

2min

[frail veldt]

yeah its not that long

[autumn dragon]

ok we are getting somewhere now

[frail veldt]

double coup helps a lot

even with adr down I feel like its cd is like <1min

[vivid vessel]

ye

[autumn dragon]

dont have 4 set thats bad ?

[rich moon]

true, esp with true bearing

[frail veldt]

nah its fine

[vivid vessel]

we are able to get a lot of cdr in with coup + ks still

when adr down

[frail veldt]

old 4 set is similar to new 4 set as trickster

so the only real benefit is ilvl

[vivid vessel]

bvut also adr uptime is just easier this tier imo

[frail veldt]

its way easier yeah

[rich moon]

yeah, maybe I exaggerated because yesterday I had the horrible experience of 10 SS in a row with no proc

[frail veldt]

well yeah that sucks

cant argue with that one

I hate when on an opener in raid ST I get ZERO SS procs

and literally bte twice in my first vanish

[rich moon]

YES

[frail veldt]

its miserable

[rich moon]

it's the worst

[autumn dragon]

so basically fix my AR uptime and go from there

[rich moon]

and no ace either lol

[frail veldt]

yeah but you fix AR uptime by fixing everything

outlaw is a combination of 1000 tiny little things

theres usually not one big fix that solves your rotation

[drowsy ridge]

And it cascades if you get 999/1000, which is a major frustration

[autumn dragon]

nothing cahnged since 10 days ago on rotation wise

so i dont thing that big of a difference costed me that much dmg

[gaunt phoenix]

Only fatebound in raid

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/coin-toss-coin-toss-gif-5017733

[copper radish]

Bout to four set trickster some keys later. Excited for this

[frail veldt]

dont be haha

[sullen walrus]

boys 2pc set fatebound kir or trickster kir is better?

[copper radish]

Gonna be better than it is now with just 2 set

[frail veldt]

at least imo it plays way worse than last season 4 set

[gaunt phoenix]

in raid fatebound

[frail veldt]

fair

[copper radish]

Also gonna rip a key with four set fatebound too

[rich moon]

I just know we need a ST buff 🙁

[copper radish]

See how they compare in the real world

[old gull]

No bosses run trickster?

[strong halo]

@vivid vessel no stream?

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe soul hunters/araz

[rich moon]

Araz and Sould hunters I think are mainly ran on trickster

[sullen walrus]

but for m+?

[vivid vessel]

stream in 30 min for raid ye

[frail veldt]

ugh raid stream

😴

[vivid vessel]

ye well

its raid for a lil bit

but idk tier should be over in 2 weeks

if blizzard isnt hard trolling

[rich moon]

also you can pad a lot of damage on king with trickster but your raid may not appreciate that you're first on adds and lowest on the actualy priority targets lol

[copper radish]

When we the lowest on prio already they’ll have no idea

How long till tuning yall think lol

[quaint mauve]

u can socket fibers into rings and necks?

[rich moon]

no

[gaunt phoenix]

fiber is cloak

[quaint mauve]

why is archon being weird

[copper radish]

Them blocks don’t fit together one might be too big 🙃

[frail veldt]

the square block goes in the square hole

[quaint mauve]

im not tweaking right

[frail veldt]

bad website

[quaint mauve]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

yooooo

[frail veldt]

or secret bug abuse

haha

[vivid vessel]

good website

[dawn talon]

intuition for arcane has bad luck protection

why does opportunity not

lol

[frail veldt]

cUZ WeRe an RNg SpEc

[autumn dragon]

is ST bad on outalw ?

in keys ?

[gaunt phoenix]

it's fine

[vivid vessel]

solo

[frail veldt]

yeah its aite, though 1fth kir is a very hard spec to play ST

[vivid vessel]

no lie no lie

[frail veldt]

not very forgiving

[vivid vessel]

outlaw key st sim the same as sin key st

thoughts

[hasty night]

@frail veldt yes doggo

[frail veldt]

wat

[copper radish]

Has any1 tried putting fibers into sockets? Maybe it works LOL

[autumn dragon]

what is a reasonable number on ST

[frail veldt]

just sim yourself

[autumn dragon]

is am simmin 2.8 wtf

[gaunt phoenix]

zac why did you tell this man to ask me about his vault

[frail veldt]

then you should be doing around 2.8

[hasty night]

Diddt wanna tag ya sry

[vivid vessel]

[frail veldt]

LOOOOOL

[gaunt phoenix]

he doesn't even play outlaw !

[vivid vessel]

tell him to ask whyspir bro idk

zeross told him to dm me

[frail veldt]

send him to guy

[vivid vessel]

so I sent him ytour way

[frail veldt]

play a little telephone

[digital linden]

im so sad bro i got to so'leah hardmode and we die in last phase cuz we pushed too fast

i hate hardmode.

[gaunt phoenix]

well i shouldn't laugh

[frail veldt]

hahahha

[gaunt phoenix]

i'm actually toxic

[digital linden]

solo have u gotten any deathless runs

[frail veldt]

so toxic

[vivid vessel]

noob

[gaunt phoenix]

We died to first boss

[frail veldt]

you were so quick with it

[digital linden]

😭

[vivid vessel]

[frail veldt]

what a goober

[gaunt phoenix]

and then we just ran it to see the rest

[vivid vessel]

im 2 on 2 for now

[gaunt phoenix]

The dragon also was fun

[vivid vessel]

no loot yet tho

[frail veldt]

I thought you get a guaranteed piece no?

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe this week we can get it

[frail veldt]

or is it one myth piece for the whole group

[vivid vessel]

you do

but

i got soleah trinket

[gaunt phoenix]

or maybe its some shit mastery ring

[frail veldt]

ah rip

[vivid vessel]

and the crit haste ring

so

[frail veldt]

crit haste might not be awful

[digital linden]

this week, mark my words deathless run is happening

[vivid vessel]

i mean its already 30 crests

[digital linden]

if it doesnt i quit wow

[vivid vessel]

gained

tbf

[gaunt phoenix]

is it 2000 crit 7000 haste

[vivid vessel]

ye

[gaunt phoenix]

nice

[vivid vessel]

banger

[frail veldt]

go play HO sleight with it

lol

[rotund zodiac]

what u guys second craft?

[frail veldt]

I did bracers

[vivid vessel]

pussy craft

ngl

[rotund zodiac]

[frail veldt]

whatd you do

[vivid vessel]

i did a ring as first craft last week

prolly wont craft a second till a while

[frail veldt]

so whats your second

oh

coward

[vivid vessel]

idk

[frail veldt]

imagine

[vivid vessel]

why would i craft

imma have infinite things to upgrade

[frail veldt]

scared

[vivid vessel]

which is more value

[frail veldt]

just commit

[vivid vessel]

cause imma be uprgrading from higher level anywya

what for

[frail veldt]

all on black

[vivid vessel]

thats jsut crest loss

im not crafting till i need to spend crests and i cant upgrade any nmythic item

[frail veldt]

when youre sitting on veteran bracers theres only one real choice

[rotund zodiac]

guess I'll wait next week and see if I get a myth bracers to catalyst

[vivid vessel]

i have sockets on myu bracers

[worldly sinew]

Lets talkabout the Temu Flurry sub was given and Outlaw got overlooked yet again bc 'its rng' and we got new KS so we should be happy.

[frank finch]

can i marco vanish + gs for fb

[glass mortar]

yes

er

probably

[worldly sinew]

When is Blizz gonna tag Outlaw skills correctly instead of tying the tags as Blade Flurry so my damage isn't 60% Blade Flurry and doesnt look stupid af.
or when are they going to remove defensives giving such a huge offensive buff that Vanish is an offensive Rotation-er. 🙂

I Love my class/spec but sometimes I wonder what the water over at Blizz tastes like ya know.

[frail veldt]

vanish hasnt been a defensive for years bro

as long as subterfuge exists, vanish will be an offensive

[worldly sinew]

OH I KNOW. Im just saying can we go back to 1 charge cd as a combat removal/defensive instead of this hogwash stuff bc sub

[glass mortar]

i mean vanish has had a tangible dps benifit for law since legion. earlier? but it was so minor u could use it mostly for utility yea

[fervent garden]

hey so if i'm 2pc/2pc tier KIR, am I keeping GS or taking 2fth?

[glass mortar]

but also the way we use vanish is a super banger so

[frail veldt]

id take GS

[red zinc]

If those are your major complaints about the spec then you have not been playing

[frail veldt]

LOL

[glass mortar]

unless thye just gave us an ability that was 1:1 with how vanish functions for crackshot rn as its replacement i wouldnt want it to go away

[frail veldt]

was gona say

[frail veldt]

you mean like SHADOW DANCE

[glass mortar]

not exactly 1:1 but if u changed it up a bunch yea

[frail veldt]

they still 10000% should have just given us two charge dance, put it on restless blades, name it something piratey, and delete subterfuge for outlaw

[glass mortar]

yea that would work

[frail veldt]

I'd die on that hil

and just have our UHUH activate when out of combat

same as shadow priest has for archon

call it something like "endless brawler"

[red zinc]

Would that change that much

[worldly sinew]

I mean tbh my biggest complaint is requiring 300apm to be competative, but thats besides the point..

[frail veldt]

mechanically not much but little bugs and such and pain points yes

thats kinda the point

no more dealing with subt bugs

you can macro trinkets

dont have to care about mounting

etc etc

[glass mortar]

high apm is kinda why u pick outlaw tho

[worldly sinew]

nothing like hitting 8 gcds in a .3second window bc "Meters" yknow

[glass mortar]

ur opting into that gameplay

[worldly sinew]

I mean, not originally it wasn't.

[glass mortar]

hmm

[frail veldt]

outlaws been pretty high apm since BFA or earlier

[glass mortar]

i feel like even back in the days of combat that specs thing was being the fastest rogue spec no?

[frail veldt]

yeah it was

[glass mortar]

like sure u werent 80 apm back in wotlk

combat was like 50

sin was 35

sub wasnt played

it was still the high apm spec tho

[frail veldt]

outlaw/combat has been high apm for almost a decade haha

[worldly sinew]

Fastest- but we're getting into wild range of APM thats just becoming unmanagable in some scenarios

[glass mortar]

sure idd

[frail veldt]

apm isnt really whats not manageable

[worldly sinew]

why am I /needing/ to hit 10 skills in a .5s window

[frail veldt]

its apm with a dynamic rotation

you can mash a button

at 0.8 seconds

[glass mortar]

it would be nice for some opt ins for the tree that could u reduce you down to the completely reasonable 70-80 apm range

[frail veldt]

with no issues

but making a decision on the correct next button in 0.8 is whats hard

[worldly sinew]

Thats fair

[vivid vessel]

i would argue its basically the first time we can actually use it defensively without losing anything since we have charges

[frail veldt]

tru

you can actually hold vanish

[glass mortar]

well

[frail veldt]

its great

two charges was the correct decision

but I think it should have been for dance

[glass mortar]

without losing anything?

[frail veldt]

not vanish

[glass mortar]

not as fatebound right cuh

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[frail veldt]

well

[glass mortar]

fatebound has specific timings for dps gains of its vanishes

[vivid vessel]

not meaningful bro

[frail veldt]

its less bad than in DF

[glass mortar]

u probably losing as much dps as u did not vanishing in legion right

[frail veldt]

by like

a lot

[glass mortar]

oh sure but im not comparing it to df

[frail veldt]

its far more flexible

[glass mortar]

i doubt this person is either

[vivid vessel]

ye every outlaw version rn has that

[frail veldt]

I can hold vanish for damage amps

or for add spawns

[copper radish]

Can’t wait to track outlaw shit in midnight without weak auras

[vivid vessel]

but holding vanish on charge

[frail veldt]

its great

10/10

[vivid vessel]

is litteraly nothing

[frail veldt]

you wont have to

[worldly sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/calculating-puzzled-math-confused-confused-look-gif-2590361669628684452

[glass mortar]

right and i mean the dps gain from vanishing as outlaw in like legion was nothing

probably like 0.5%

i dont really remember what u got from it was super minor tho

[copper radish]

Telling me blizzards weak aura gonna be 10/10 amazing? lol

[frail veldt]

no

[spring bay]

I play HO and always get higher st dps from my trickster build than fb in raid 🙈

[frail veldt]

im telling you was wont be gone in midnight

[worldly sinew]

10/10 amazing, not customizable, and its gonna cpu hog so you're gonna need other addons anways too. kekw

[frail veldt]

yall need to watch the interviews

[copper radish]

Thought they were removing all that stuff

[frail veldt]

....

[late swallow]

WAs will be illegal for british players in midnight

[frail veldt]

theres some pretty stupid rumors going around about them deleting all addons

[vivid vessel]

not illegal

[frail veldt]

with literally no evidence

[copper radish]

All my news I read from these channels lol

[vivid vessel]

you just need to verify your age

[late swallow]

Oi you got a loicense for that weakaura?????

[copper radish]

Which I figured yall get off wowhead or whatever lol

[vivid vessel]

som are you 18+ to use these addons ?

[frail veldt]

they have explicitly said MANY times. "We are not going to war on addons"

[late swallow]

[vivid vessel]

take a picture with your phone our ai will let you know

[frail veldt]

they want to offer in house solutions so the player doesnt feel the need to download addons

[glass mortar]

nah its good to give pushback incase

[frail veldt]

not that they want to ban them outright

they want to make their value lower

so that people dont feel forced to use them

[glass mortar]

i wouldnt put it past some of the direction team people to try to actually cut out addons and WA has been a pain in their ass for a long time

but they have not said directly anywhere this is the case

[gaunt phoenix]

they've cracked down on what weakauras can do before, perhaps this one will be the most they've done

[vivid vessel]

?

i mean

[proven ocean]

zac zac

[vivid vessel]

last time you said this

[proven ocean]

plzplz

buff outlaw'

zac

ok?/

[vivid vessel]

i showed you specifically

what they said

[copper radish]

If blizzards weak aura doesn’t use as much CPU as the current one I might try it

[proven ocean]

no cappy

[vivid vessel]

and it greatly implied

that combat addons

will get very limited

[frail veldt]

yeah ion mentioned this in an interview saying "weve tried to fight was before and weve lost" cuz the RWF people jsut found ways around the private auras

[proven ocean]

masterbaiter

[vivid vessel]

gg man ..

[copper radish]

Rogue?!?!?

[red zinc]

What was that post about

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/капибара-gif-15656021286497190682

[frail veldt]

I saw this specifically for teammate cooldowns but that was it

[gaunt phoenix]

classic

[glass mortar]

yea you know what would fix this fight

[frail veldt]

if blizzard is going to allow you tot rack your own buffs

[glass mortar]

if WA was just gone and they had to work within blizzards WA

[pastel shore]

why is this trinket bad for us (i know it doesn't sim good), don't we usually want trinkets like that? (like Geargrinder's spare Keys, Grieftorch...)

[frail veldt]

your WAs will be able to do the same

[glass mortar]

[frail veldt]

blizzard isnt going to make it so ONLY their in house things can track something

[vivid vessel]

not in the same way

[proven ocean]

mop classic on literally 2 abilities changes that nobody asked for

[vivid vessel]

ye they could, like private auras

so

the thing is

[red zinc]

Nobody playing mop classic anyway

[vivid vessel]

you have 2 ways to do it

[frail veldt]

then your WA could just track a ui element from blizzards new UI

like what

[vivid vessel]

yes

[late swallow]

Imagine tuning classic

[glass mortar]

u cant accuratly sim it unless you change ur haste budget to fit it

[copper radish]

Don’t worry guys we got a 3% dmg increase for raid we will be S tier soon

[gaunt phoenix]

it's a haste trinket so you have to gear around it, but otherwise, idk the tuning is just kinda mid

[vivid vessel]

which is different

[glass mortar]

i dont think its particularly good tho

[vivid vessel]

you could skin the specific ui elements

[proven ocean]

watch them skip wod classic 💀

[vivid vessel]

without knoiwing what they are

which is vastly different

[gaunt phoenix]

it's maybe good on damage amp

[copper radish]

Garrisons 2.0 vs player housing

[tropic zephyr]

10.5m for 2mn is meh

[vivid vessel]

cause if you dont know what the elements are (thats how private aura skinning works btw)

you cant do shit about it

[late swallow]

Wod classic + an extra wod raid tier

[red zinc]

I wonder if they just give up

[vivid vessel]

you cant do code around it

or anything

[late swallow]

Wod would have been goated with an extra tier

[red zinc]

Mop classic already flopped no way wod classic will have anyone playing

[frail veldt]

but again I really dont think theyre going to just privatize all player buffs

[gaunt phoenix]

"mid" as in 0.8% worse than normal trinkets

[proven ocean]

u type without using ur brain sometimes

[frail veldt]

thats just not even remotely what theyve been saying they will do

[tropic zephyr]

Wdym best xpack!!!

[proven ocean]

cuz that makes me sure u never played wod

[vivid vessel]

i think they are very likely to nuke any combat event

thats what they implied very stronlgy

[frail veldt]

maybe combat log parsing yeah

[late swallow]

Raided BRF + HFC

[frail veldt]

but for 99% of players

[late swallow]

Goated raids

[proven ocean]

ye

but

[vivid vessel]

nope you dont get it

[frail veldt]

you will still be able to have your was the same as before

[proven ocean]

they took over a year

[vivid vessel]

combat events

[proven ocean]

or 2 years?

dont remember

too long

[tropic zephyr]

Same

[proven ocean]

had to move on so

[vivid vessel]

how weak aura works is just reading combat events

[tropic zephyr]

Brf banger

[vivid vessel]

like 99% of addons

[glass mortar]

combat events are what weak auras react to

[late swallow]

With an extra tier, they could have released them faster

[glass mortar]

and read

[proven ocean]

brf and hfc was omega goated tho

[glass mortar]

especially the boss ones

[proven ocean]

hfc

like

omega goated

[frail veldt]

I mean outside of trickster WA and RtB container logic how many of your WAs rely on combat events?

[vivid vessel]

all of them

[frail veldt]

??????????

[vivid vessel]

you dont get it i think

how do you trhink weak aura are coded

the addon

[strong halo]

If i plan on playing sub and outlaw, its a prism angle isnt it...

[vivid vessel]

that does the cool ui for you

it reads combat events

[frail veldt]

I think if a buff is visible on your player then you will be able to have a wa track it

[vivid vessel]

mayube, but you wont be able to tell what it is

[frail veldt]

I dont see any reality where a blizzard based WA can track a buff that a 3rd party WA cant

that doesnt seem remotely in line with what their goal is

[vivid vessel]

like the addon for example will have access to a list of buffs and skin it

[frail veldt]

it seems far more effort than its worth to try to "go to war" with that

[timid portal]

!defensive

[spring bay]

I use sound effects for opportunity procs and ambush procs as HO

[frail veldt]

have to think about the goal of all of this zac

[gaunt phoenix]

!def

[ornate heath]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[frail veldt]

its to get more players to play

[vivid vessel]

nah idk man

[frail veldt]

it is

1000%

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel oh ac

[frail veldt]

its money

[proven ocean]

zac

[vivid vessel]

its very sensical to me lol

[frail veldt]

game more popular

[proven ocean]

the badge is partner right?

not

affiliate

[frail veldt]

more money

[proven ocean]

cuz i just applied to affiliate and they accepted

[glass mortar]

sure and most players dont need the fancy WA or stuff WA can track, if the blizzard one is good enough

[vivid vessel]

if they remove all of that your UI is streamlined, and you can still have skin weak auras that skin the cooldonw manager and stuffs

[glass mortar]

and WA is also a known resource hog that slows peoples games down

[proven ocean]

oh

i did apply before

[vivid vessel]

but you wont be able to do more

[proven ocean]

what the helly

[frail veldt]

they wont nuke the current playerbases way of living just to make some philosophical stance on addons

[glass mortar]

and many people prob dont know how to optimize their WA to enjoy it

but i also dont think they will ever actually delete WA

[frail veldt]

theres just no reason to do that

[glass mortar]

i do think the pushback would be too much

[vivid vessel]

idk i wouldnt care if they do

legit

[copper radish]

Did this 3% raid dmg increase move us up the charts today

[glass mortar]

i mean theres a ton of reasons to do it

i just dont think they will

too much pushback

[vivid vessel]

i dont care about weak auras i dont use weak auras

my weak auras are jsut the cooldown manager

[frail veldt]

I think this is the end all be all reason not to

[vivid vessel]

i wont be impacted

[glass mortar]

sure

[vivid vessel]

like lil billy with his rotation helper weak aura will

[glass mortar]

but i think u shouldnt push back on people acting angry about the possibility of blizzard doing this like its completely unrealistic

i think its totally realistic

and i want those people to keep yelling at blizzard

[frail veldt]

What im expecting to get out of this is way better visual clarity of default nameplates/enemy spells/cast bars/etc

[late swallow]

You guys think raja jackson uses weakauras?

[glass mortar]

incase they get the idea in their heads

[frail veldt]

I would LOVE if I didnt have to get a WA package every season

and update my plater

so I can see which mobs are the ones with scary spells

[red zinc]

Get prism for fun angle honestly

[frail veldt]

and have fucking timers for everything

100000000/10

pls blizzard

[red zinc]

worthy investment to free clear hard mode also

[frail veldt]

make those changes

which I think is what they are acknowledging is the issue

its not rotation was

they literally gave us one button rotation and hekili

they dont give a fuck about rotation helpers

[copper radish]

Replaced my plater with betterblizzplates and I’ve been liking it a lot

[frail veldt]

yeah the screenshots of the new nameplates look great too

I cant wait

I hate nameplate addons and boss/mob mechanics WAs

[glass mortar]

i would love for nameplate addons to die yea and have them just be way more customizable baseline

but i dont think i want them to be killed

[red zinc]

Everything needs a lil more time in the oven after release probably

[glass mortar]

just die a natural death

[red zinc]

But thats fine

[glass mortar]

make blizzard frames so good nobody needs them anymore

[red zinc]

Can wait

[frail veldt]

They are not coming for your glowy pistol shot WA that tells you when you have stacks of opportunity

people need to calm down about that

[glass mortar]

nah

[copper radish]

Causese only weak aura I use for keys/raids pretty helpful with some stuff

[glass mortar]

it could happen

and it wouldnt surprise me

[frail veldt]

I would be very very surprised

[glass mortar]

people should stay vigilant and yell at blizzard everytime they r cringe

yea i was surprised when they gave us a wotlk era fucking stat tax too

[frail veldt]

they have yet to be that cringe in this process

[glass mortar]

but here we are a full expansion later

[vivid vessel]

except i dont htink you understand

[red zinc]

friction

[vivid vessel]

that if they remove combat event parsing for addons

which is how you make it so addons cant do all the things that you are describing

[glass mortar]

🥵

[vivid vessel]

you wont be able to do that eityher

[frail veldt]

Yes I get what youre saying but that would cause such an immediate NUKE to everything I dont think they would do it

[vivid vessel]

i dont think it will be immediate

but as far as i know

they did that in the past already

[glass mortar]

i mean i doubt theyd everj ust remove them in 1 patch

[frail veldt]

bro all WAs would break instantly

[vivid vessel]

and people jsut addapt

ye

[spring bay]

They better not

[vivid vessel]

lol ?

so ?

[frail veldt]

so yes it would be an immediate nuke

[glass mortar]

it would be like "ok we made it so WA can no longer read these types of events we dont like and we improved our aura"

then 2 patches later

[red zinc]

[frail veldt]

it would instantly make everyones UI explode on login lol

[copper radish]

PVP would be fun without all the bells and whistles warnings tbh 😂

[glass mortar]

"we think our WA has gotten so good that the unwanted functionality from old WA is just slowing peoples PC down"

[frail veldt]

I agree

[vivid vessel]

well they would tell players 5 months in advance that all of this will be gone

[copper radish]

Then these damn casters can’t anticipate my kicks lmao

[frail veldt]

I mean time will tell

[vivid vessel]

time will tell that i was right

as always

when was the last time i was wrong ?

idk

cant rmemeber

[copper radish]

💀

[frail veldt]

but the philosophy theyre conveying doesnt seem to indicate to me that their goal is to remove our rotational WAs. But I do agree theres a possibility that it is collaterally damaged

[covert folio]

Is Slice and Dice just not used? Seems wierd but I never see it on any guides. Is there a specific reason?

[frail veldt]

dispatch procs it

so you dont have to press it

[glass mortar]

u passivly apply it to urself

[proven ocean]

weran

ur cooked

idk why but

ye

[frail veldt]

chicken soup

[copper radish]

Dispatch gives u slice and dice now

[covert folio]

Oh, missed that. Thank you.

[quaint mauve]

why r these my best simmin raid trinkets

oh brother

[frail veldt]

youre low on haste?

[quaint mauve]

no

21%

[glass mortar]

nah ross

[quaint mauve]

even

[frail veldt]

link sim

[glass mortar]

i think ur the one thats cooked

[quaint mauve]

im too high

[copper radish]

Man I always see this one sin rogue in outlaw channel

[glass mortar]

im ratting u out to my wowhead contacts

its so over for u

[quaint mauve]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uA5QnHTwCfaCgcTnvvszwN

i have bad trinks tho

tbf

[glass mortar]

can u pick that trinkets stats in sims or

is there a slider

[quaint mauve]

i have soleahs set to vers

[frail veldt]

yeah was gona say

youre comparing ti signet

and pacemaker

[glass mortar]

u probably needed some haste if sacbrood is on top

[quaint mauve]

LOL

[glass mortar]

but also all ur trinket options are within like 0.7% dps so

ig u got some really shit ones in there

they manage to fall outside that

[frail veldt]

soleahs is also p decent

[frail veldt]

he doesnt

he has 24% haste with sac

but yeah I mean your options just arent very good

just take some haste gear off and run sac

sacbrood is very good in ST

pacemaker sucks

signet sucks

im surprised idol is so low for you though thats the weird one ot me

[quaint mauve]

ye me too

[glass mortar]

isnt it a st sim

[quaint mauve]

ima do uhhh eco domes

[glass mortar]

doesnt idols stats scale with aoe

[quaint mauve]

until i get a hero claw ig

[frail veldt]

but yeah id drop haste and run sac + soleahs

[quaint mauve]

my non haste gear is very bad ilvl drop

[frail veldt]

I mean ilvl drop on rings is whatever

and neck

but yeah your trinkets are meh lol funky sim though

[gaunt phoenix]

i feel like

idk

[frail veldt]

hahaha

[glass mortar]

same solo same

[frail veldt]

fr

[sterile tusk]

!macros

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not low precision

[glass mortar]

i feel like

[gaunt phoenix]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o8xys2Y3DaMqaJLvuHifHD

i changed ur cloak tho

[frail veldt]

oh bro

[split grove]

Probably been asked but should we perma macro Vanish with AR and GS or do we still need like one classic vanish + a macro with all 3 for FB ?

[frail veldt]

haste cloak

trollllin

but yeah honestly cloak is such a nice feature for outlaw this season

allows such good flexibility in statting

much needed for us

[gaunt phoenix]

1 vanish macro is good

but

you still have to press AR/GS manually a lot

[split grove]

i have GS on BTE / Dispatch macro

[olive bramble]

it's not worth the hassle of remembering to press macro vs manually imho

[split grove]

i know it's a bit cursed

[gaunt phoenix]

well that will mess with these rules

[split grove]

I also have the cancel stealth macro

[frail veldt]

I did GS + BtE on its own macro but still have GS and BtE bound separately

[worldly sinew]

I've yet to find a macro that feels good for me personally.. already got too many braincells fighting over next finisher, dunno if I wanna add macro finishers into that too 😭

[frail veldt]

so by vanish macro solo do you just mean your vanish has adr and GS macrod into it? And you just try to time the bte yourself?

or do you also macro bte into it

[cinder haven]

Kinda, but you want to max vers and have as little mastery as possible? So you really want verse on cloak and get the haste somewhere else

[frail veldt]

yeah ideally sure but trading vers for haste sometimes is a necessity

[glass mortar]

i think the bte macro is not ideal

[frail veldt]

and it comes at no cost

[cinder haven]

Trade mastery for haste, not vers for haste if at all possible

[glass mortar]

its not suggested in the pin right

we were discussing it earlier

[cinder haven]

Or crit for haste

[gaunt phoenix]

i cannot explain the bte thing correctly

[glass mortar]

just adr+GS is enough

[frail veldt]

I was hitting some breakpoints nearing 40% vers where crit was better

[digital linden]

40%?

[olive bramble]

I understood your explanation in the pinned message

[cinder haven]

Yeah you can run into that this season

[vivid vessel]

SKILL ISSUE

[gaunt phoenix]

[frail veldt]

I have two macros, one for AR + GS and one for GS + BtE

Whats the better way to do it?

[fathom whale]

Hey Zac you’re the goat big fan

[digital linden]

dunno i do the same

[glass mortar]

idk solo was saying with the bte thing you end up at 7/4 coins and with just adr ghostly u end up at 6/6

and 6/6 might be better

[gaunt phoenix]

this is true

[fathom whale]

Oi do trinket buff to the one off dimensius mean anything to us

[frail veldt]

yeah but you dont get the ar ghostly that often

gs bte is like every vanish

thats the one you actually use most of the time

[gaunt phoenix]

AR + GS + BtE produces really wacky coin results that might hurt you

but GS + BtE can only help you or do nothing

[glass mortar]

oh yea just bte + Gs doesnt really matter right

is it still bugging the GS coin

[frail veldt]

thats the big one I thought

vanish -> gs bte

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[frail veldt]

So if im only gona do one ill just keep doing that

and still do the opener ofc which is cancel->adr->gs->rtb

[gaunt phoenix]

you vanish gs for 3/3 coins. then you bte, the expected result is 4/0 coins

but GS + BtE at the same time sometimes gives you 5/3 or 5/2 coins

[frail veldt]

I essentially have an "opener" macro and a "gs->bte" macro

and I just ignore the adr + gs thing mid combat

cba

[split grove]

So
Cancelaura cringe macro
Vanish AR GS macro
BTE GS macro
And we gucci ?

[olive bramble]

I just play without macro's, because cba to remember to press the macro's lol

[glass mortar]

put the cancelaura in the ar gs macro

[frail veldt]

dont relaly need the 2nd one I think is what solos saying

[glass mortar]

should just be 2 macros

the opener and the bte gs

[copper radish]

I need an addon that does a casino sound every time a coin flips

[gaunt phoenix]

i really wanted to avoid people thinking they need 3 different macros to get the dps gain here

[split grove]

I mean 1.5% is a bit much to pass on

[copper radish]

I just use a GS adrenaline macro without the cancel aura Easier that way lol

[frail veldt]

Opener macro:
/cancelaura stealth
/cast Adrenaline rush
/cast Ghostly Strike
/cast Roll the Bones(optional)

Mid combat macro for vanishing:
/cast ghostly strike
/cast Between the Eyes

[gaunt phoenix]

1.5% is assuming the whole BtE thing doesnt work at all

[frail veldt]

this is what I did, two macros

[split grove]

So you can legit perma cancelaura when you press AR it's fine ?

[frail veldt]

no

[split grove]

You don't need the macro + classic AR

[frail veldt]

I dont override my other spells

with these macros

these macros are separate binds entirely

that I only press when the conditions arrise

[glass mortar]

i mean it would only hurt if for some reason this was ur only adr button and u pressed it while running between packs or something

[split grove]

But does it fuck up anything by having only the macro

[gaunt phoenix]

Imo you just use the first macro for opener and for vanish and ignore bte fuckery

[split grove]

At worst you restealth

[glass mortar]

the cancelaura doesnt do anything during vanish iirc, and even if it does it doesnt matter

[split grove]

yeah so you can just use the macro perma to press classic AR

[frail veldt]

oh so you just try to time the gs->bte after the vanish?

[glass mortar]

well no u cant time it

[frail veldt]

interesting

[glass mortar]

they need to go off at the same exact instant or it doesn bug

hes just saying play normally

[frail veldt]

gotcha

[copper radish]

Ight boys whose gonna make the WA so we can make all this align

[gaunt phoenix]

like remember that GS is not the gcd and BtE is

so you have to delay your gcd

[frail veldt]

yeah ive been vanishing at the end of my gcd

[gaunt phoenix]

if you want them both

[frail veldt]

and pressing my gs->bte macro

[glass mortar]

unless ur always waiting to ensure ur off the gcd before u use the ghostly bte macro it wont do anything 99% of the time anyway

[frail veldt]

so I get 5/3 coins every time

[frail veldt]

thats what ive been doing haha

[glass mortar]

yea

idk if its worth waiting but i doubt it costs too much

and most people probably wont wait properly

[frail veldt]

fair

[glass mortar]

or wait too long

if they dont understand what they r waiting for anyway

[frail veldt]

so real answer is just change your adr button to be
/cancelaura stealth
/cast adrenaline rush
/cast ghostly strike

and call it a day

[gaunt phoenix]

We decided to take the bte thing out of sims cause it's kinda inhuman gaming

[glass mortar]

i mean sims have an inherent reaction time dont they

[digital linden]

which bte thing

[glass mortar]

like 0.2s or something

are sims actually using BtE + ghostly perfectly aligned right off the gcd

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

[glass mortar]

because of so thats definitly cheating

LUL yea

[frail veldt]

It didnt feel that bad to just vanish and wait a lil longer for one gcd

but maybe im weird

[glass mortar]

i doubt it feels bad its just a question of if its a dps gain if you lose 100 ms off every gcd using the macro u know

[frail veldt]

very true

[glass mortar]

how much u miss will depend on ur ping and reaction time obviously

[glossy pewter]

all the ghostly strike enjoyers are in shambles rn

[glass mortar]

but if u use that macro 15 times a fight that could be two entire gcds of abilities lost

[frail veldt]

so main thing of value is the actual rule of holding vanish for gs

not teh bte part

[glass mortar]

would the extra coins be worth that

ye

[frail veldt]

wdym this whole thing is designed around gs

lol

[gaunt phoenix]

but also im not deciphering the wacky coin results to print them into simc logic

AR GS works every time 100% so that's the good part

[glossy pewter]

yea and its dogshit

[glass mortar]

we are actively playing around ghostly more then at any point since ER tbh

more then even then as fatebound

[cinder haven]

Only if you use the react thing iirc?

[glass mortar]

i like the holding vanishes for GS at least

its a cute rule compared to hold for RP

[gaunt phoenix]

with any luck you have rp active anyway

[glass mortar]

ya i just wasnt sure if that automatically kicks in for shit like this or u need to manually use it somehow

that makes more sense

[cinder haven]

If you wanna check some if some buff is up with reaction time u use buff.nameofbuff.react

We havent used that much in outlaw apl afaik, but some other specs use it a lot

Idk if we have something built in for cp maybe

[split grove]

So if i understand correctly i'd rather have GS macro with BTE and send it off the gcd right after vanish rather than having GS macroed with vanish

[frail veldt]

nah solo is saying the GS->BtE is sketchy and not worth necessarily

just use the adr + gs macro

then you dont need to actually even add any binds

you can just macro gs into your adr and call it a day if you want if I understand correctly

with cancelaura

[willow portal]

can we immune the soak on postmaster?

[craggy quiver]

No

[split grove]

Ok thx

[glass mortar]

the 1.5% in the pins is entirely from the opener macro and gameplay of holding vanishes for GS

[frail veldt]

this part of the pin is the main thing

[glass mortar]

the bte ghostly is another thing

[gaunt phoenix]

yep

GS + BtE can technically help you but then you have separate AR + GS + BTE vs just GS + BTE

[frail veldt]

yeah highlighted the important part here

[glass mortar]

maybe i'll make a cute lil bte ghostly macro and throw it somewhere to use if like, you are running to a new pack to open on in stealth and have ghostly up

because then ur never delaying to sync them or anything

[frail veldt]

yeah I have GS on shift + R so I put GS->BtE on alt+R

[keen belfry]

bte ghostly is hard to use cuz to use "optimally" it cant be your BTE bind right? if it is, you will often press GS during subterfuge when you could save it for your vanish if you have a charge. could it be your GS bind? would that be tech?

[glass mortar]

its hard to use because u cannot press the macro on the gcd

[frail veldt]

its gotta be its own button yeah

[keen belfry]

could it be GS bind?

[frail veldt]

nah

cuz you press GS normally a lot still

[glass mortar]

u dont always wanna GS when ur Bteing and vice versa

[frail veldt]

and you dont want to bte every time you gs

[glass mortar]

especially now that ur holding vanishes for GS

[frank finch]

solo can i macro gs into vanish

[gaunt phoenix]

you CAN but its not the only time you press gs

so you still have to able to press gs normally

[frank finch]

yea when u have no vanish charges

[willow portal]

is there anything i can do as outlaw on mailboss hardmode?

[frail veldt]

oh true lol

you only GS normally when you cant vanish anyway

so its more like

macro vanish INTO GS

and keep your gs bind

lolol

[split grove]

Might as well add the AR into this macro

[frank finch]

[split grove]

For when it all align

[frail veldt]

nah but really just do what the pin says

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah that's what I meant to convey

[frail veldt]

I seeee

I never imagined a world

where we could not have a vanish bind

that was not on my TWW bingo card

[glass mortar]

???

[frail veldt]

wut

[glass mortar]

i guess that works since if ghostly is on cd it just casts vanish anyway

[frail veldt]

exaaactly

[gaunt phoenix]

the devs are gonna see this and nuke it from orbit probably

[frail veldt]

LOL

[quaint mauve]

bro wtf is arcane ST

why is my friend literally doing DOUBLE

my ST dmg

[craggy quiver]

If that means some buffs then I'm down

[frail veldt]

they had cooldowns

if the fights long enough they shouldnt double your dps

[gaunt phoenix]

if they nuke the double jeopardy bug, you will still vanish gs at least

that would just be the end of it

no AR or possible bte

[glass mortar]

feels intended at least? a single rule shift thats simple but changes the playstyle for a season

the ghostly vanish thing

otherwise this tier set would be boring af

just like fatebound

[gaunt phoenix]

well yeah GS from stealth is not a bug

just when you combine it with other shit

it gets fucky wucky

[frail veldt]

and no lucky coin to start the fight

[glass mortar]

"wtf why does every outlaw log have 99% uptime on its lucky coin this isnt supposed to happen"

[frail veldt]

honestly that would suck a LOT

[glass mortar]

🙂

how dare they

[frail veldt]

like a LOT a lot

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont think that will be awful

[glass mortar]

i mean

[frail veldt]

I just hate playing so well on a fight

then I check my details

[glass mortar]

u wouldnt even really notice unless u looked at logs

[frail veldt]

and I have 50% lucky coin

[copper radish]

🤦‍♂️ can’t wait for our aura buff to be “fixed lucky coin bug”

[glass mortar]

ud just lose lucky coin

hehe

[frail veldt]

no point even uploading the log

[gaunt phoenix]

anyway vanish gs does feel good and fun

[glass mortar]

fatebound is so passive but just 10 different design flaws like little daggers tearing ur damage profile apart

[gaunt phoenix]

i think people will play it and "get it"

[glass mortar]

cant wait for 12.0 rework

[frail veldt]

agreed

better vanish rules than RP/SC

[glass mortar]

SC felt ok but i do like it more yea

all the vanish rules are better then the RP one

🤢

[frail veldt]

SC felt underwhelming

[gaunt phoenix]

vanish on SC might work its way into trickster soon

[jovial dock]

is this true in subterfuge windows as well ?

[frail veldt]

damn really

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah but it's not a big deal in stealth @jovial dock

[frail veldt]

I feel like I almost overcap vanish

even with no rules on it

[gaunt phoenix]

it may be vanish on SC if coup is projected to be far away

[frail veldt]

or on ST

[copper radish]

Watch them break flurry again and it hits dead targets 2.0

[frail veldt]

cuz you dont have BF

[long barn]

What’s the word on street in Antenna. I don’t see pin yet

[frail veldt]

I bet ST probably can manage that a lot better as 1pt fth

[frail veldt]

it gud

[long barn]

Ty

[gaunt phoenix]

antenna didnt really move it seems

its not omegabis

[glass mortar]

wasnt it like a 3% nerf on the stats it gives

3% nerf on a trinket when our trinkets r like 0.3% apart

[copper radish]

Cursed idol and sigil all I’m gonna rock the whole season

[long barn]

Is scream worth more now?

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont think so

[civic zephyr]

what miss percetage do i sim antenna at?

[gaunt phoenix]

idk

the orbs time out after like 20s

[jolly geyser]

arent you suppose to be able to upgrade one of your trinkets if you got highest ilvl trinket in bag?

[gaunt phoenix]

im not sure how much antenna really misses on outlaw

it's based on the lowest of your 2 highest trinkets

[jolly geyser]

meh that sucks

[split grove]

Oh and btw, do you still use AR in subt window to get to full CP or do you keep it if you have a charge of vanish so you can vanish / ar / gs just after your 1st subt window ?

[frail veldt]

I thought the orbs float to you

with antenna

[gaunt phoenix]

they do

but they time out after some time

so if you are seriously moving

[frail veldt]

yeah so if you like grapple away

[gaunt phoenix]

they can miss

[gaunt phoenix]

If you have a charge of vanish then you keep it

[drowsy ridge]

Oh, feeling a lot better overall after asking around here, at least in Raid. I know LFR doesn't matter, but my numbers feel good using Fatebound on more things

[sullen wyvern]

sub rogues are kinda pumping in keys now arent they

[uncut ginkgo]

what info is out there if any on the rework for midnight?

[glass mortar]

None

[gaunt phoenix]

nothing other than repeatedly saying outlaw has too many weakauras

[uncut ginkgo]

ah

[worthy elm]

Is it even guaranteed?

[glass mortar]

No

[worthy elm]

might just be a couple adjust ments..

or nothing

[glass mortar]

nothing in life is guarenteed friend

[frank finch]

NOT TRUE !!!!

[gaunt phoenix]

I 100% bet my ass they are removing or reworking kir

[glass mortar]

only taxes and zac crashing out about any bluepost

[frank finch]

they show us using double dagger !!!!

[jovial dock]

what i figured

[proven ocean]

if they dont we get to have ur ass?

or how does it work

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

[worthy elm]

could just be an xmog thing..

[proven ocean]

@late swallow pin this

[gaunt phoenix]

they showed an outlaw clip that had daggers, ambush and fth

[frank finch]

u cant xmog double dagger on law

[glass mortar]

yet

zac thinks the wording of the tmog changes implies u can'

[late swallow]

Pin this

[glass mortar]

because u mog the slot instead of the item now

[worthy elm]

and they are doing a big overhaul of xmog so..

[frank finch]

[worthy elm]

until i see the note or can do it myself i wont believe it

[ocean lodge]

Noob question, but I haven't really touched outlaw since df-s3. Is there a way to game faze stacks I'm not really understanding? I notice my killing spree occasionally hits for like 1.5mil a tick when it's usually 800ish (my rogue isn't super geared yet)

[glass mortar]

no

u dont pay any attention to it it just naturally lines up with vanish when it happens (because u want to get through kspree and coups to vanish asap most of the time)

[ocean lodge]

Ye, the 4set feels real nice.

But what's turbo buffing my ks then?

[glass mortar]

flawless form

[gaunt phoenix]

flawless form stacks

After double coup you have at least 10

[ocean lodge]

Oh, true.

[gaunt phoenix]

which is 30% finisher damage

[glass mortar]

quad coup is 60%

[ocean lodge]

dayum

[glass mortar]

altho the overlap of those stacks wont last super long

they dont refresh duration iirc?

its like ironfur or

[gaunt phoenix]

they roll like ironfur

[glass mortar]

ye i figured

[frail veldt]

its like fatal flourish right?

[ocean lodge]

What's the highest you've gotten it lol

[frail veldt]

oh wait I thought you were talking about antenna haha

[glass mortar]

no clue i dont track it anywhere since theres no reason to

[ocean lodge]

I forgot how much I love this spec tbh.

[gaunt phoenix]

ya you don't track it

[glass mortar]

it just happens

[ocean lodge]

alright cool, just wanted to make sure I wasn't super misplaying by not paying more attention to it.

[gaunt phoenix]

there are trickster optimizations that lead to more unseen blades which is more coups which is more flawless forms

Mainly with the weakaura when you have a guaranteed unseen blade, you prio ss as a builder

[cinder haven]

The fact that you dont get ff stacks if you coup a target without fazed really annoys me

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[frail veldt]

I hate when I SS then vanish and it turns out I had a HIDDEN UB that then PROCCED 2 set and I went from 2 stacks EB to sitting on coup for a whole damn vanish

[frail veldt]

FOR REALS

fazed uptime is kinda shit rn too due to KS cd nerf

[copper radish]

60% increased KS doing numbas

[frail veldt]

whenever I KS I see my dps on the meters go down

lol

[copper radish]

That makes me sad

[glass mortar]

me when i can add an arbitrary restriction to a an outlaw buff design that serves zero function except punishing me if the game forces me to swap targets at a bad time

[frail veldt]

sure does

[glass mortar]

yea i mean when i kspree my numbers are usually going down also lul

[frail veldt]

engineered frustration

[glass mortar]

but its just

less damage then crackshot windows ig

[copper radish]

Ight we need a cook so we 100% get fazed up and quad coups

[frail veldt]

cook is reduce KS cd

[copper radish]

What crazy cancel aura will work here 😂

[glass mortar]

cook is remove the entire interaction of flawless + fazed because why

just why

[frail veldt]

true

[glass mortar]

i mean half cd kspree also fixed the issue but i dont see that happening

[frail veldt]

no reason for it to exist

engineered frustration

[copper radish]

Trickster should reduced KS cooldown by 50% or more tbh

[misty bridge]

Cold blood with KS makes me smile

[quaint sable]

How good is warp claw cause its between that and upgrading vet tier to myth. A sim says to take pants but I also have that whole I can easily get any myth pants later might be only time I see the trinket.

[copper radish]

Could always buy the trinket at turbo boost

[glass mortar]

im hearing warpclaw might be bugged rn but you'd need to search in here because i dont have it so i havent kept up with the convo myself

[gaunt phoenix]

there was a bug where it stopped working but fixed with relog

[cinder haven]

Good bugged or bad bugged?

Ah badbugged

I prefer the other kind

[eternal isle]

@lean grove i heard you beat hardmode 2x times already
do you have any tips on how to play outlaw im usually bottom dps
thanks

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm if you go full raid fatebound you should be fine dps i think

[quaint sable]

This is true. Didn't think of that

[gaunt phoenix]

ofc you are kinda fucked on music boss or w.e

[cinder haven]

Fuck that boss in general

[quaint mauve]

@frail veldt somethings wrong bro

got a warpclaw equal ilvl

and it sims worse

too

wtf

wtf

[frail veldt]

weird

link it again lol

[quaint mauve]

one sec rerunning it

[quaint mauve]

its doing sac brood claw now

[frail veldt]

that seems right

[quaint mauve]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fy92EG7aitS8B2xosomemc

ima sim a lower ilvl no haste ring

to see

nah my best sim has me running same gear

ima just have a shit ton of haste

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel btw guess what

Max just said devoker is like 2nd tankiest spec on dimensius and fraggo in echo was dying 2-4 times each pull on rwf

💀