outlaw

[glass mortar]

and outlaw is so rarely that

this season is a nightmare

i havent lost an overall yet this season in my pugs but i know its coming and never before have i won overalls vs players by 1-2m dps but still lost on every boss fight xd

its wild to me how trashed our st is

[olive bramble]

idk, I am out dpsing on almost every boss almost every time in my keys pushing

[craggy quiver]

yea its bad

[olive bramble]

I guess I am just playing with terrible players lol

[covert kestrel]

Well 1fth without last season tier

[craggy quiver]

overall is not bad holy shit ourr st is ass

[tight kernel]

idk my st is fine

skill issue

[craggy quiver]

dunno man 3.5m when everyone is over 4m

[olive bramble]

lol I am doing over 4m on bosses?

[tight kernel]

yeah idk let me find my logs

I do well over that as well

[craggy quiver]

i have to high roll

dunno i do like 10m overall just st on boss is just not there lol

[glass mortar]

i mean my dungeon build sims for like 3.7m with full raidbuffs so

maybe im being gear diffed

if u guys r doing over 4m on st on the reg in dungeons

[tight kernel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4GZZDFQpBeyhJLP1v2tFhx

[craggy quiver]

im 706

im def not

unless there is adds

[tight kernel]

might be gear nerf tbh

[long barn]

Trinket tuning

[olive bramble]

I am 704 ilvl

[long barn]

Hmmm

[glass mortar]

4m would be like perma 5 buffs the whole fight with chaining kir for me

[craggy quiver]

yes

[glass mortar]

but my gear is pretty mid

[craggy quiver]

purre st

thats me

if i high roll

[late swallow]

Weran is a god

[tight kernel]

i must've forgot to upload my 15s

[glass mortar]

i might only be 701 i havent checked my ilvl tbh

[tight kernel]

but like this a 14 dawn, baby key but yeah https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Q8kc2XNBP9AzWamT?fight=16&type=summary

[strong halo]

Bruv I did a key with a lock that had 12M overall

How yall winning overalls lol

My tanks pulled 4 packs in priory

[tight kernel]

tbh overall is very dependent on rest of dps

and tank pulls

[strong halo]

2 uncapped mofos vs me the dweeb

• lust

Lock had 40m sustained

[olive bramble]

because the rest of the dung we do more dps

[tight kernel]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LDp7ZMJBCNXVa96W?fight=6&type=summary

here is one 15

I mean we are ass for sure but I feel fine for what outlaw can do

[valid wasp]

!gear

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406175771495759952/outlaw.webp

[strong halo]

Yeah I just feel like if tank pulls triple packs only I’m cooked

One time a tank pull for me I rekt everyone

[tight kernel]

Yeah I mean, affinity is pretty goated

so he pulls very well for the comp he runs

[strong halo]

I had a tank pull 2 extra packs on floodgate first pull with fury warr outlaw and lock

[tight kernel]

thats ST

prob on the lower end too

2nd boss

idk

thats with a pack into pull tho so bloated

[glass mortar]

i mean

i dont think bm or sub have good boss damage either

i havent really played with either of those two specs tho

sub probably just depends on the boss kill timer

bm i have no clue arent they ass in raid also

[tight kernel]

nah

they slam

its like ranged outlaw

[glass mortar]

bm is like bottom 5 specs st it looks like

on the st bosses anyway

[wintry solar]

Bm didn't have aura anyway

Nothing of value is lost

[glass mortar]

i think they do do most of their potential st in aoe build tho

[tight kernel]

NA LFG is just rip

[random obsidian]

isnt that your dps on the last boss tho? who gives you a damage buff each time you get your soul

[olive bramble]

its always rip

[elder phoenix]

is there any advantages in doing a key higher than 10?

like do you get more loot /higher ilvl?

[glass mortar]

12s give more crests

[fathom bramble]

not really

just more crests

[glass mortar]

and no annoying weekly affix

i prefer 12s

[olive bramble]

affix sucks ass

[elder phoenix]

Lol im max'd out on crests

[late swallow]

Sub has goated boss dmg wdym

You can prestack so much

[tight kernel]

yeah i guess but I mean I can pull up more logs. outlaw is dog this tier but our st isnt the worst

[elder phoenix]

sub is according to archon the best rogue spec atm in m+

[glass mortar]

i dont think its the worst i just dont think its good lol

which is unusual outlaw usually does pretty good st in keys

they really butchered our profile

[late swallow]

Outlaw is down bad rn

I legit called this

[random obsidian]

yeah i was just curious about the 4m ST, Id say its pretty hard to average above 3m5 honestly

[late swallow]

Goated week one

And then we sleep

[random obsidian]

who has worse ST dps in your opinion?

[late swallow]

Sin rogue

Very bad

[elder phoenix]

https://i.imgur.com/cfYy57P.jpeg archoin rn

for m+ 7 to 17

in high keys https://i.imgur.com/42OjMX1.jpeg

[random obsidian]

I feel like anytime I play a boss with lust + other good ST specs I just get wrecked

[elder phoenix]

Go sub then

[random obsidian]

im already somewhat bad at outlaw, would have to learn sub and be shit for a while as well

[elder phoenix]

sub isnt that hard

tbh

[late swallow]

Sub is easier than outlaw bro

[elder phoenix]

Just macro some abilities together

[late swallow]

Just gotta learn the script

[elder phoenix]

Yeah

^

basically

[tight kernel]

yeah for sure but they fall off, our damage profile is pretty flat

so we maintain the dps

[random obsidian]

Well ive always played outlaw only so it feels very weird to learn a CD dps

[late swallow]

Sub guide is very good

And it’s super fun

[elder phoenix]

Sub has prob the most streamline rotation

out of all the rogue specs tbh

[late swallow]

You drop nukes every 1.5 mins

[elder phoenix]

and spamming shurriken

and blackpowder or w/e

[late swallow]

Legit the omae wa mo shindeiru spec

[elder phoenix]

is actually fun

LOL

like you turn into a somewhat range spec

I find it easier in Floodgates to go sub

than the other spec

cuz of that

[random stirrup]

18 stack prism nuke

[elder phoenix]

but the issue with sub is that if you fucked up once you have to align your cds again

[random stirrup]

[random obsidian]

for sure but does it really matter? if the boss doesnt stay alive long enough for you to catch up that is, ive done a few 14-15s and bosses still die fast imo

[tender wedge]

yooo i just logged in and got

did they fix that thing from the delve 11 quest

[limpid vortex]

Isn't that from doing any key level?

[tender wedge]

I think that too

But if you did it too early in the week it counted towards cap

[tender wedge]

oh shit well

im capped and i don't have extra so thanks i guess

still no extra crests

[tight kernel]

idol not bad

[stiff vector]

ye my idol at 720 does upwards of like 300m overall in a key, usually like 2.5%-3% its big dam

[fierce sinew]

when do you find is the best time to use it?

[cedar kernel]

Hall is pretty tough

[gaunt phoenix]

just generally on cd outside of stealth, maybe hold a bit for aoe

[late swallow]

[cedar kernel]

hall is pretty tough before 1st boss

but after that everything is easy

[worldly pawn]

guys does the AutoTankMisdirect WA works?

[cedar kernel]

brothers whats the best time line after firstboss? under 14mins or 13.5

@tight kernelkev may i ask how does the time cast in ur timed 14+ hall after 1st boss slained?

[elder phoenix]

when should you coup de grace

i mean

you dont coup de grace while in stealth right?

or subterfuge

[tight kernel]

uh not sure i'd have to check

[pure folio]

You do not

same with KS

[random terrace]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[keen belfry]

playing sub no sham buff gg

[cedar kernel]

i failed a 14

cringe

we finish the first boss at 13:45

but we fail it in the first pull after that boss

DH make it too huge

very hard here if he dont do chain pull

he just pull everything together

[fossil lintel]

that pull can be tough because the big guys do a mortal strike on the tank

[cedar kernel]

yea i think chain pull is much better

[tight kernel]

I refuse to go left stairs

more ethical to go right

[cedar kernel]

but he pull all things at the same time

[tight kernel]

imo

[cedar kernel]

agree

[tight kernel]

anklebiters 1 shot bad tanks

esp if you 2 pack anklebiters

they hurt'

[cedar kernel]

but its tank route so

pug tanks

[tight kernel]

[cedar kernel]

wait brothers

may i ask for a focus interrupt marco

[tight kernel]

yeah

sec

[fossil lintel]

do you want one that marks or not?

[cedar kernel]

i load it once but i forget to make it in marco

[tight kernel]

I use two macros

[cedar kernel]

everything could be fine

[tight kernel]

and focus kicks/ks

kidney*

[fossil lintel]

#showtooltip
/cast [@focus,exists,nodead] [] Kick

This will kick your focus if it exists, otherwise current target

[tight kernel]

/focus [@mouseover,exists,nodead] []

#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus,harm,exists] []Kick

pretty much same thing as marvin ye

[cedar kernel]

i want something like press ctrl+mid mouse can do focus inter otherwise kick mouseover or current target

[fossil lintel]

/focus [@mouseover,harm,nodead] [harm]

I use this as focus

[cedar kernel]

i saw someone have it before but i cant found it

[tight kernel]

ah like a modifier?\

[cedar kernel]

yea maybe

appreciate brothers

#showtooltip
/Cast [target=mouseover, harm, exists] Kick; Kick
/cast [mod:Ctrl, exists, @focus, nodead]Kick

i might get it?

is this right?

[crimson arch]

is there a pullsize where we want to let killing spree finish on its own or does it not matter in any scenario?

[gaunt phoenix]

number of targets is not related, and while canceling is ks not a big deal, it does seem most related to energy

if you are low/mid on energy i would try not to cancel ks

so it refills you

[cedar kernel]

i might found the reason why i dont have energy sometime

[gaunt phoenix]

nah

[crimson arch]

ah ye

[cedar kernel]

solo rn i would found myself lacking of energy sometime and it cant be recover if i dont stop casting, should i not cancel KS in such moment like u said

[tender wedge]

bad diet?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah let it finish

[tight kernel]

u spamming feint?

[cedar kernel]

yea

always to keep me from dying

my warrior said i died too much

[tight kernel]

yeah maybe dont spam it for everything

might help you

hows your adr uptime

[cedar kernel]

90% if i dont die

[willow portal]

Antenna dead?

[cinder haven]

I tried to sim this a way back but couldn’t really find anything better than never cancelling for some reason

Like only cancelling at full cp and close to full energy

Better than never cancelling but worse than always cancelling

[wintry solar]

Hi Tob

[stiff vector]

I swear to god man I want to put my head thru the monitor playing 1fth sometimes in keys

[cinder haven]

Hello

[stiff vector]

love it when you just randomly hit a streak of 5+ minutes of being giga trolled by rng and im just getting no ace procs, spamming SS 75% of my globals and wanting to

[cinder haven]

I’m working on making soh + ld viable

It will help a little with consistency I think

But you can still get giga unlucky with rolls

You’d drop the versa talent for soh

But it needs other rtb rules

[stiff vector]

they could also just ya know...fix the specs energy economy and buff CTO

like why the hell am I getting energy starved even with adr up because im being forced to press SS 8 globals in a row

[wintry solar]

Any come to mind?

[willow portal]

Hell on earth

[cinder haven]

Yeah i have some in the works

[willow portal]

They should really just fix rollling rng imo

[cinder haven]

It’s a bit similar to last season but less aggressive

[cinder haven]

There’s rumours of a midnight outlaw rework so there’s that i guess

[wintry solar]

Mentioned twice by name would be a wild coincidence

[tender wedge]

did you start these rumours

[stiff vector]

as much as Id like to see them actually put time into iterating on the specs problems, im scared for them doing anything because most of the recent changes and things theyve put into the spec have been blatantly horrible design/choices

[wintry solar]

Tob has been in blizz hq whispering in their ears like a ghost

[cinder haven]

Of course not, why would you say such a thing

[random obsidian]

they still have to work on it tho, otherwise the already small playerbase is going to get even smaller

[cinder haven]

But nah, I have zero influence over anything really

[cinder haven]

Yeah me too, terrified really

The spec probably does need a rework and it will maybe make it more played but that doesn’t mean the veterans will like it

[random obsidian]

You could argue a lot of the veterans also don't enjoy what it has become

[cinder haven]

Can’t please everyone I guess

They can’t just leave it like this forever though

[random obsidian]

Tbf just fixing the hero trees and making them not awful would go a long way and shouldnt change much about the essence of outlaw

[harsh forge]

reminds me of killing spree in like dragon flight s1

[cinder haven]

I want to do a lot of damage when I feel like I’m blasting

[dreamy wing]

When I am comparing my logs to high rogue keys of the same dungeon im at like 250~ BTE and the good logs are at like 500+ any advice on where i might be missing them I feel like im cramming into every vanish window but idk, do you spam it even if less than 5 combo points?

[cinder haven]

No no, not below 5

[true cedar]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[wintry solar]

The little of the unholy tree we've seen teases the removal of wounds so there's no telling how far they'd go if wounds are in fact gone.

[cedar kernel]

solo lord does the antenna fallen after the nerf or still bis?

[cinder haven]

Do you build to 6+ before vanish?

Only vanish with adr up?

!commonmistakes

[ornate heath]

Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.

[wintry solar]

Damn my dyslexia

[dreamy wing]

tbh this is something I could fix, oh the common mistakes didnt know that ill look there thank you

[cinder haven]

[random obsidian]

Issue with "doing damage" is that it's reliant on good tuning, which we might have one patch, and lose the next patch

I just want to be useful even when damage isnt tuned high

So if we were to get a rework, other than good gameplay, it would be better to get tools that will always have value imo

[cinder haven]

For mid pug keys our damage profile is okish

[random obsidian]

It is, but thats also why we're kinda ass since we bring nothing valuable other than damage

[cinder haven]

Providing damage when everyone else is holding cds is a shit niche though

It’s kinda fun to not have to hold cds though

[dawn talon]

the thing is like

nobody likes holding damage

so it's not something they're keen to design around

for the sake of what... frost, fire, outlaw, and sv?

[cinder haven]

I want to be able to benefit from bl at least

[wintry solar]

Alpha is soon so there's time to mentally prep

[random obsidian]

Im pretty confident they can cook if they actually try

[cinder haven]

Maybe nda on alpha though?

[wintry solar]

Have they done that?

[cinder haven]

Not sure, just can’t remember ever getting a lot of info from alpha testers

[wintry solar]

I'm not really worried in the slightest that they'll make it worse in terms of functionality, I'm moreso worried if I'm gonna like it or not.

[cinder haven]

It’ll probably become more popular yeah

[wintry solar]

I have confidence they'll fix it for sure

I just got that feeling

[random obsidian]

Popular for a bit, even when outlaw had great design it wasnt played that much iirc

[wintry solar]

Fdk got me wishfully thinking

[random obsidian]

Doubt they have any chance of turning a rogue spec into ret in terms of popularity

[wintry solar]

Nah

That's a very tall order

[cinder haven]

Class fantasy isn’t appealing enough for that i think

[random obsidian]

Well, just looking at enhance, who got tons of good changes since DF, and still isnt that popular, it's pretty safe to assume outlaw will remain more or less the same as well

[wintry solar]

I'm really curious if crackshot is gonna make it

Or that whole gameplay loop rather

Not specifically crackshot

[random obsidian]

Wouldnt make sense to remove it

[wintry solar]

Amazing post

[random obsidian]

The only issue crackshot has is that its the only playstyle available rn isnt it?

[wintry solar]

Yeah

[quaint mauve]

yeah

[random obsidian]

Like, if you enjoyed pre-crackshot Outlaw, it's totally dead

[cinder haven]

We have a lot mandatory talents in general

Uhuh as well

Forcing a playstyle of keeping adr up

[random obsidian]

I feel like it should be the hero trees job to change the gameplay loop, instead of adding another spinning plate (like trickster)

[wintry solar]

Esp when they make bosses like dimmy

[dawn talon]

what hero talents do this

[cinder haven]

I hope they can solve the adr stuff

[dawn talon]

like out of all the specs i play none of them, even the ones everyone likes, do this

[willow portal]

What did outlaw do pre crackshot

[random obsidian]

Not a big enh expert, but their hero trees do this i think? Between totemic and tempest

[dawn talon]

build and spend

[wintry solar]

Have energy

[dawn talon]

nah, totemic is just phys enhance with an annoying maintenance buff and stormkeeper is just storm enhance with uncapped damage

[willow portal]

Sanlayn for bdk

[random obsidian]

Doesnt it change the gameplay loop tho

[dawn talon]

both builds were viable on and off for the entirety of df

no, not really

[random obsidian]

Not accounting for tuning

[wintry solar]

A fellow sanlayn bdk enjoyer?

[dawn talon]

storm enhance played very similarly to current stormbringer at several points in the past

[fair charm]

I’ve decided to abandon crackshot and go all ranged with my gun, so I took Greenskin Wicker’s. I keep full range and just wait for opportunity procs. I rocked this heroic dungeon too!!

[willow portal]

I was main bdk for a long time until i got kicked from my last guild

[dawn talon]

and totemic is 100% JUST phys enhance with a maintenance buff and a proc to spend

[willow portal]

Expectations on tanks is just too high imo

[random obsidian]

Ah i see, mb then, I played tank most of TWW so Idk about most dps specs hero trees

[cinder haven]

I played some bdk last season

But I prefer the other hero tree

[willow portal]

You could have brought guardian as example then

[willow portal]

Less damage tho

[dawn talon]

i think that (if they worked correctly) arcane's hero talents are exactly what the system should be

[willow portal]

Funny pink number go brrrr

[random obsidian]

Hate the bear sadly, but I can think of VDH with Felscarred and AR

[cinder haven]

It wasn’t far behind at all

[random obsidian]

Ppal felt the same between hero trees tho

[dawn talon]

sunfury gives you a strong util node and you hit a bunch of barrage, spellsligner gives you a strong defensive node and there's a bunch of orbs

[willow portal]

Going to grey and green outlaw parses after this last season feels really bad

[wintry solar]

DB blood makes me feel like I'm playing it wrong because of all the boneshield charges

[cinder haven]

I felt sl kept trying to trick me into compromising defense for offense

[random obsidian]

Playing tank taught me that most tank players are insanely bad

[willow portal]

Thats the trick, you go offense as tank

Defense as tank is bait

Just do dam

[wintry solar]

Esp as blood

[cinder haven]

Until you die

[random obsidian]

But you learn from your death

Best way to get better at tanking

[wintry solar]

I liked that tier that made VP a dps CD back in df

[cinder haven]

It was much easier to parse 99 on bdk

[willow portal]

Always preventable with baseline kit

[random obsidian]

Living on the edge is fun

[cinder haven]

Even with db

[wintry solar]

Just take the Death Pact talents

[ripe ibex]

just wait til you play healer

[willow portal]

Do we know if antenna loses to warpclaw after nerfs?

[cinder haven]

Idk, the nerf was pretty big?

[random obsidian]

Feels placebo

[cinder haven]

I don’t have it anyway

[ripe ibex]

only the robot will tell me how it feels

[cinder haven]

And now I don’t have to raid

Yay

[buoyant cosmos]

oh hell yeah

[random obsidian]

is that all 15s timed?

[stiff vector]

ye im never playing floodgate with a ranged group ever again holy shit that was miserable

[buoyant cosmos]

I wish lol

3022, outlaw only

moving the goal posts for myself

[random obsidian]

damn

well, gratz still

15s easily doable ngl

[buoyant cosmos]

working on it

[buoyant cosmos]

physcomp with BM is great

[stiff vector]

ye not when youre playing with a arcane mage and dev evoker

[random obsidian]

do they pull giga big all the time and make it horrible to play for you?

[stiff vector]

and im just getting perma grifed by shit in melee

[buoyant cosmos]

eff that

[stiff vector]

and getting like every mechanic on last boss too

[buoyant cosmos]

Giggaaa ZAP

[cinder haven]

Let’s pull all these anti melee mobs

[random obsidian]

yeh im playing with a lock and shp i feel you

there's like 0 synergy going on there

[stiff vector]

like that dungeon playing with casters that just afk in the brain because 90% of the shit doesnt effect them (and these level players dont use their stops 90% of the time) while im getting perma griefed in melee while tank pulls big is just actual melee hell

that key is only tolerable when CC is good

[jolly geyser]

this explains alot,I did a flood yday

felt like I was in a ww1 trench

[stiff vector]

otherwise its insane just how bad they grief melee with quite literally almost every single mechanic in that key

[random obsidian]

whats the name of these guy that tp behind someone and cleave a purple thing?

[simple tide]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[cinder haven]

Inspector

[stiff vector]

inspectors or w/e I think

[random obsidian]

man every time the caster stand 40439 yards from the pack

and you have to breakdance to get through

[stiff vector]

after swampface is just miserable no matter what

[cinder haven]

I don’t like last boss

[stiff vector]

multiple inspectors in every pull, and then electricians who are also just spamming blue circles on the ground as well

[cinder haven]

It’s the big guys that do the circles I think?

[stiff vector]

ye

[random obsidian]

jumpstarters?

i think

[cinder haven]

Electricians just spam bolts

Inspectors plus jumpstarters is big no no

[stiff vector]

ye idk I never pay attention to their name because im too busy getting griefed by blizzard dungeon design on those pulls

[cinder haven]

Imo

Anything else is mostly fine

But dodge circles and purple frontals at the same time is a bit much for me

[random obsidian]

The purple frontals would be fine if the ranged players had any clue what it feels like playing melee tbf

[cinder haven]

And you can’t really swap targets

[random obsidian]

Theyd actually stand in melee

[cinder haven]

Because of gs and fazed

[fluid meadow]

nah the jumping mobs in eco are more bad, flood mobs in the last area just stack with melee on tank there are no tank frontals specifically, so just bait circles there to one place

[cinder haven]

I wonder how many times I’ve sent double coup into a mob without fazed this season

[torpid fiber]

i should make my plater profile make fazed giga obvious

fazed is so dumb

why is it a mechanic

no one has ever gained increased enjoyment from fazed

[cinder haven]

Why is getting ff stacks tied to fazed?

[random obsidian]

whatever i do as trickster i feel like im doing something wrong

[torpid fiber]

trickster also already adds way more things to track

[cinder haven]

Toxic design decision imo

[torpid fiber]

it doesn't need fazed

[cinder haven]

You gotta track the untrackable

[lucid sandal]

Trinket tuning Sims when

[random obsidian]

id bet all my money on the fact that rogues hero trees were done as fast as possible before shipping tww

[cinder haven]

I won’t be against that

[stiff vector]

I just have fazed highlighted on my plater with a glow

could also just color the mobs hp bar

[lucid sandal]

Yeah it's like they had Templar, Dark Ranger and Mountain Thane in mind before the system and then just drafted something half assed for rogues

[cinder haven]

I cba to dig up the spell ids to do an override sim on antenna while on a train

[cinder haven]

Even if you do this, what if coup is up and you have to hit a pulsar or something

[stiff vector]

get fucked

or send it on a mob that is fazed

[cinder haven]

We can’t do shit about except really trolly things

[stiff vector]

Idk what purpose fazed really serves

but then again the hero trees are so designed like such dogshit its better to just not question it

[cinder haven]

Having a debuff that increases damage taken by 5% is fine

But let it end there

[random obsidian]

I wouldnt say its fine tbf

Since its just numbers

if its not fun might as well not have it

[cinder haven]

It’s boring yeah

[stiff vector]

I mean its only a problem nowbecause KS is longer CD

[cinder haven]

But now it’s just toxic

[vivid vessel]

Hero talents are designed to have as many interactions between talents

To hide they fact they were rushed

Even if that comes at the cost of gameplay

They did it

[cinder haven]

Maybe in rework we can get rid of gs and fazed

[stiff vector]

aint no hiding it anymore at the end of the xpac

[cinder haven]

So we can target swap freely

Dps cost of target swap should be max 5% imo

[random obsidian]

get rid of greenskin wickers as well

that shit has never been alive

[stiff vector]

somehow it feels like the hero trees are arguably in a worse state than before(if we ignore the fact that trickster was basically unplayable s1)

[fossil lintel]

It saw some play in shadowlands when it was a legendary

[light kernel]

Is antenna still bis?

[random obsidian]

yeah i mean, since it has become a talent

[stiff vector]

actual dogshit cinema

[fathom bramble]

eh but in sl it saw play but didn't change how you played

capstones should do SOMETHING when you talent into them

[cinder haven]

Trickster is for sure improved, still very sus though

[vivid vessel]

I'm so excited for midnight to fix all the issues but create an infinite number of new ones cause they rework half the things from the ground up

[fathom bramble]

something that you can actually tell is there

[cinder haven]

In sl it was a legendary though?

[wintry solar]

Ye

[vivid vessel]

Only fb is better

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

Or is it

[fossil lintel]

I wonder what the outlaw apex talent will be. Probably something like "AR reduces your GCD based on your haste" and they drop it from AR baseline

[fathom bramble]

it's not fit to be a capstone talent when it has no impact on the rotation

[vivid vessel]

We have to use random macros everywhere cause it's bugged to shit

[dawn talon]

don't speak evil into the world

[vivid vessel]

!container

[cinder haven]

This… is too close for comfort

[fossil lintel]

S3 DF tier bonus would be the best apex talent but they will never do it

[random obsidian]

The issue is that its pretty obvious the guys designing current outlaw don't play it, so how are they going to cook something interesting and fun for it

[fathom bramble]

I mean we got a lot of fun stuff from the current dev to be fair

whether you think he plays law or not he can cook something at least

[cinder haven]

Idk I was pretty happy with the talent tree when it came out tbh

It just hasn’t been iterated on enough

[fossil lintel]

Do you mean df S1 or the reworked one?

[cinder haven]

Df one

Tww changes were only nerfs basically

[random obsidian]

Not taking a shot at the current dev(s) ofc, but what are you thinking about exactly

I loved KiR when it got added

[fossil lintel]

Yeah, we got a good tree but then the changes we got since were basically half cooked hero talents and removing baseline functionality to force us to grab haste

[random obsidian]

But it was in DF

[cinder haven]

And removing acro

Never forget

[fossil lintel]

Oh yeah, acro

[fathom bramble]

KIR, HO, and supercharger are certainly wins

[random obsidian]

My point was more about TWW outlaw

HO and KiR are great additions yeah

[fathom bramble]

right

[fossil lintel]

"We've increased baseline melee range" -> have to stand on dimensius ball sack to hit him on p1

[fathom bramble]

TWW has had nothing good and new other than the passable KS rework

[wintry solar]

Double vanish

[random obsidian]

and Supercharger can become even better if they work on rtb

[fathom bramble]

forgot double vanish was TWW

[cinder haven]

Double vanish and supercharger are ok

[wintry solar]

They even messed up TEA

[magic shuttle]

Midnight will be the gsw expansion

It's over for other capstones

[fluid meadow]

yesterday someone popped every egg at ara minibosses, there where no place for melee eta gg

[chilly atlas]

that's the optimal way to play it

[vivid vessel]

I wouldn't call that passable

Ngl

[fathom bramble]

yeah meanwhile base melee range has been 5 yards for 20 years and there doesn't seem to be any indication that hitboxes are getting larger

[cinder haven]

They didn’t increase baseline melee range at all tho?

[wintry solar]

No they just lied about that

[cinder haven]

Last boss eda is another fun example

[random obsidian]

Imagine if we could like "lock in" buffs and reroll other buffs way more than what we currently do

[chilly atlas]

passable is generous, just doesnt randomly kill you

[random obsidian]

would make supercharger more fun maybe

[vivid vessel]

If ks rework wasn't a rework and just a new ability

[cinder haven]

You have to basically stand in the visual on the boss

[fathom bramble]

if it was a brand new spell in a ks-less world it would be a fail

but as a rework to the worst skill in existence

[vivid vessel]

I'm sorry but that's probably the worse ability ever created in years

[fathom bramble]

it is passable

[cinder haven]

Luckily you don’t get hit

[fossil lintel]

They had a few bosses that had a larger hitbox than the older days, but this seems to be going backwards

[stiff vector]

I love how they removed all melees extra range, said theyd make hitboxes better, and then also proceeded to make sure they put even more mechanics into m+(and raid to a lesser extent) that just overwhelmingly grief melee uptime

[vivid vessel]

Going from the well skill in existence to the second worse skill in existence definitely was an improvement

[wintry solar]

I'm actually disappointed modern blizzard let KS launch with that jank of an animation

[fossil lintel]

Old KS doesn't exist anymore, what other skill currently exists and is worse than new KS?

[random obsidian]

Some AoEs being unecessarily big for no other reason than making you hate being melee

[cinder haven]

A kir rework that only locks current buffs? No range extendion?

Shorter cd maybe

I don’t hate it

[random obsidian]

No clue man, just a button that would, for example, lock your 2 last buffs, no way to reroll them, and in the meantime you can just roll other buffs

Im not the cook

[vivid vessel]

Well then you can't fish cto it's just rng what you roll

So that's kinda bad

[random obsidian]

just throwing an idea at the cook

[vivid vessel]

Well what I proposed for kir was that it actually lock the buffs tho

[cinder haven]

I only cook sims

[vivid vessel]

Lock them till they expire

[wintry solar]

Alpha needs to hurry up. The anticipation is killing me.

[vivid vessel]

No container weird thing

[random obsidian]

Yeah that would be cool

[cinder haven]

Regardless of rolls yeah

[vivid vessel]

I mean CTO should also work like that

[random obsidian]

Just a lock in or lock in + extend?

[cinder haven]

Then you can spam rtb

Would be cool

But extremely strong

[random obsidian]

I don't think it's wrong to give you more agency over your buffs

[cinder haven]

Maybe if they get rid of the extend

It’s bugged anyway

[random obsidian]

Numbers can always be adjusted

[vivid vessel]

Without the extend you can't kir Cto so that's boring

[fossil lintel]

Do you think rtb survives whatever rework they'll do to outlaw? They keep using the spec as the poster child of too much complexity

[cinder haven]

Then it’ll either have a huge cd or be giga mandatory

[stiff vector]

also buff CTO

[random obsidian]

The poster child of "requiring weak auras" id say

iirc

[vivid vessel]

I'm unsure it would be much different

[random obsidian]

its not about the complexity

[vivid vessel]

Wouldn't feel like you were playing around a bug tho

[fluid meadow]

i mean from blizz perspective they want to make the specs easier, so they delete every roll mechanic and making kir to just give the roll buffs , i don't want to see that

[cinder haven]

You could rtb on cd for 60s?

[royal ermine]

in the midnight thing where they were showing off the "prey" feature the person playing rogue used RTB so as of now it still exists

[cinder haven]

But still have all buffs basically

[random obsidian]

Very unlikely they plan to delete the complexity of the spec tho

[vivid vessel]

I mean you wouldn't tho

Like you don't rn either

[fathom bramble]

it's more likely that they just fix their buff manager to handle RTB more accurately imo

[fossil lintel]

It exists yes, but will it be anything like current with the rng and require you to track which buffs you got?

[fathom bramble]

they haven't actually made a spec simpler yet in all their talking

[vivid vessel]

First you still have the chance to roll over buffs

[fathom bramble]

just made massive jumps in the base ui

[cinder haven]

Why? Each rtb is 6cp finisher

[vivid vessel]

And like we do rn we don't roll on cd

[random obsidian]

They'd just rework the badly designed complexity instead

[vivid vessel]

Why aren't we rolling on cd rn

[cinder haven]

I thought you said they would be completely locked?

[fossil lintel]

Frost DK is a lot simpler tbh

[vivid vessel]

i guess they could be completly locked

[random obsidian]

But fdk's deal was being simple

[vivid vessel]

doesnt change anything tho

we wouldnt roll on cd

we dont do that rn already

[fossil lintel]

And they made it even simpler

[vivid vessel]

do you roll on cd rn without kir ?

[random obsidian]

Yeah but you can argue the identity of the spec remains unchanged

[vivid vessel]

you roll once with ld

[cinder haven]

Then I’m 99% sure we basically roll on CD for that duration

[random obsidian]

and so the playerbase is still happy with it

[cinder haven]

Now yes because if you roll more you lose buffs on average

[fathom bramble]

the only real WA requiring complexity we have is the buff container jank which they could fix by allowing the base ui to see the container buff

[fossil lintel]

New KS is a kick in the balls of spec identity anyway, I don't think they care about that

[fathom bramble]

or by fixing all container bugs

[cinder haven]

But if 4 are locked I’m pretty sure we just spam roll

[fathom bramble]

it just seems like not a real problem

the hidden trickster buffs as well

[vivid vessel]

idk honestly

idc either way

[cinder haven]

5 locked and only BT missing? You spam for sure

[vivid vessel]

its fine for kir to be stronger

[cinder haven]

Would be fun though

[vivid vessel]

just unerf ho or whatever

[random obsidian]

Honestly I don't think they're so short sighted they'd make outlaw "not outlaw" by removing what makes it fun

[vivid vessel]

if you remove the jank gameplay of kir

without removing the fun part of it

[random obsidian]

Even if they did a terrible job in TWW, other xpacs they did more than fine

[vivid vessel]

thats not really true tbh

i think you guys dont remember what df was

in df we had the worse taelnt trees easely from all clases

[lime lake]

return to shadowlands outlaw

[cinder haven]

Yeah it’s a good idea even if it’s strong

Much more intuitive

[vivid vessel]

they just dropped the first iteration

and never iterated on it

during alpha beta

[cinder haven]

Yes

[royal ermine]

hell yeah kyrian shadowdust and m4d sbs

[random obsidian]

Yeeeah

[royal ermine]

bring it back

[lime lake]

dragonflight made me stop playing outlaw

[cinder haven]

That’s my feeling too

[fathom bramble]

the launch of SL where all 4 of our cov skills were so bad that you basically picked for the soulbinds

[random obsidian]

I take that back

[lime lake]

bring back shadowlands

[fossil lintel]

It was a bad talent tree but df season 1 outlaw was pretty fun. Of course they then nerfed fth for zero reason.

[cinder haven]

Where is haste cap iteration?

[random obsidian]

haste cap became a thing with tww?

i think

[cinder haven]

Just throw in a half assed solution and never touch it again

[royal ermine]

it did yes

[vivid vessel]

then the "rework" in df s3 saved it slightly but created even more issues (uptime issues, all the bte bugs/stealth bugs)

like

idk

[fathom bramble]

haste cap needed iteration immediately

[vivid vessel]

ok the df s3 rework was majoritary fun

but like

[fossil lintel]

Oh yes please give us dust back

[vivid vessel]

it only been finalized in tww

[random obsidian]

haste cap doesnt even make sense design wise, the laziest way to make the spec want haste lol

[vivid vessel]

after they fixed the stealth bugs

and bte reset

which should have been done during ptr

[fathom bramble]

it doesn't and never even made you want haste since the cap is so low

[vivid vessel]

in df s3

[cinder haven]

Did you just say majoritary?

[royal ermine]

df s3 tier set was also goated tho

[fathom bramble]

and as we reach the end of the expac you need barely any haste items to reach it

[vivid vessel]

ye

majorly

idk

bro

english hard

[random obsidian]

yeah its more that you're punished for not having haste

[cinder haven]

No it’s a nice word

[vivid vessel]

ye its a french word that i made english

[cinder haven]

Wrong but nice sounding

[random obsidian]

was a bit annoying gearing outlaw for s3 tbh

[tender wedge]

majoram

[fathom bramble]

I'm worried they'll just make it require twice as much haste to reach 0.8 or something

and pretend that somehow fixes it

[fossil lintel]

Don't worry guys I'm sure the haste thing will become the apex talent so we have the choice of playing AR without it

[fathom bramble]

AR without the gcd reduc is barely a skill

[random obsidian]

Create an issue
Sell the fix

Nice marketing

[fathom bramble]

you could probably just drop uhuh if AR didn't have gcd reduc tbh

[cinder haven]

A little energy and attack speed

[royal ermine]

it shouldn't even exist in the first place

[fossil lintel]

"look how much faster the apex talent makes the spec go"

[royal ermine]

there's nothing in the game that even mentions the adr haste interaction either if you're a new player lol

[fathom bramble]

true

not that it had the 0.2 second GCD reduction on the tooltip either though

since for some reason they took that out in legion

I remember the brief panic of AR getting massively nerfed for legion

until people realized it was only a tooltip change

[cinder haven]

The 0.2 gcd reduction was a band aid in the first place it feels like

[fathom bramble]

well it was added 1000 years ago

iirc it was because AR gave so much energy you couldn't spend it all

which made it feel bad as a CD

or something

[random obsidian]

funny to think about

[cinder haven]

Which is because of the fundamental problem of energy specs having fixed gcd

But now we don’t

But we are still an energy spec

[fossil lintel]

We still have it in theory

[wintry solar]

What would it take to bring you back

[fossil lintel]

Just adr makes it scales a bit with haste

[fathom bramble]

well you just hit the cap and get our old 0.8 fixed GCD back

but yeah it's the same gcd scaling that caster have for haste until you hit that cap

[lime lake]

havent really thought about it, the spec evolved in a way i dont like but others do

so i said farewell and retired

[cinder haven]

But they will do what you said earlier lok

[lime lake]

ive never really been a big crackshot gamer

[wintry solar]

So you're just gonna wait and see?

[cinder haven]

Double or triple the amount of haste needed to reach cap

[cedar kernel]

13s left to time 14 hall

[fathom bramble]

yeah it wouldn't surprise me

[cedar kernel]

[lime lake]

maybe midnight ruins the spec for everyone else but makes it fun for me again

[fluid meadow]

in modern wow not pressing buttons cause of smthing resource is just so dumb at all

[cinder haven]

But if they tone it so we avoid haste it will work

[random obsidian]

Make adr convert any excess haste to %vers

[lime lake]

[random obsidian]

[wintry solar]

That'd be funny

[fossil lintel]

Or uncap out gcd

[fathom bramble]

During adrenaline rush haste grants increased damage at x% of its value.

[fossil lintel]

Let us go to .5

[cinder haven]

Maybe if the make mastery worth something

[fathom bramble]

pretty sure our mastery is the last one left that just doesn't scale anything

[fossil lintel]

Imagine they make mastery good and now we no longer stack Vers, what a tragedy

[fathom bramble]

granted some of the generic scaling masteries are still bad

[cinder haven]

Mastery increases damage in stealth by x%

[fathom bramble]

but ours is uniquely bad

[tender wedge]

i feel like redoing mastery would be such an easy way to breath life into the spec

[wintry solar]

Stop that

[cinder haven]

Then nerf haste for us so we don’t take it

[lime lake]

your range increases based on your mastery

[fossil lintel]

Actually, new mastery: extra versatile. It's just another Vers.

[lime lake]

[fathom bramble]

Hidden shot: Damage increased by x%, this bonus is tripled while stealthed.

[royal ermine]

if they changed our mastery they'd just monkey paw us anyways

[cinder haven]

Or damage increase on gun abilities

[random obsidian]

Can they really

make it worse

[fossil lintel]

Yes

[wintry solar]

Yeah

[lime lake]

yes

[royal ermine]

like if they changed it to some dumb shit like mastery increases SS proc chance they'd say okay your base chance is now 20%

[random obsidian]

at this point id like to see them try

[fossil lintel]

They can make it good and we no longer stack vers

[cinder haven]

If they remove current mastery we’ll have even worse energy i think

[fathom bramble]

Hidden shot: Between the eyes, killing spree, and pistol shot deal x% more damage. During stealth or for 6 seconds after leaving it this applies to all other abilites as well.

[fossil lintel]

That would be horrible

[dawn talon]

main gauche is thematically cool as fuck too, sneaking in offhand strikes is a very underhanded, dishonorable thing to do and fits the spec well

but it just doesn't do anything

and has no animation

[cinder haven]

At least if they remove mg completely

[fathom bramble]

MG has an animation

[dawn talon]

it's not a unique one though, is it?

[random obsidian]

and we have dead talents designed for it lol

[fluid meadow]

mastery multishot on every ability

[royal ermine]

its like a golden cross slash or some shit when it procs

[fathom bramble]

Your single target melee attacks have a 30% chance to strike again with your off-hand for x% of the original damage dealt. All other ability damage is increased by y%.

[dawn talon]

this might be me being blind then

[lime lake]

i thought mg was just a normal melee

[cinder haven]

Yeah whatever something something % damage

[lime lake]

animation wise

[fathom bramble]

it has a yellow trail and a diff animation from an ordinary oh auto attack

[fossil lintel]

Mastery: increase subterfuge duration by x%

[random obsidian]

I remember a few years ago, when someone asked for outlaw to be uncapped, we used to say it didnt need to be uncapped, what do we think about that now btw?

[fathom bramble]

or maybe it's a normal one and just way quicker

[lime lake]

mg is op wtf

[fathom bramble]

it def feels different at least

[cinder haven]

We yap about that all the time

[fathom bramble]

I think I still say basically the same thing I did then

in the situations where it matters it would be a significant buff

but doesn't actually change the overall damage for most players on most fights

[random obsidian]

I think the point in favor of capped made sense back then

but in current wow it doesnt make much sense, feels more of a handicap than anything

[fathom bramble]

it would be a small buff to our dungeon overall and help us not feel completely useless on what tends to be the most important packs in a dungeon

[vague cape]

Tbh if they held true to their promise about capped specs it would have been fine

Too bad they fuckin lied

[fathom bramble]

yeah if they actually used the cap to reign in burst aoe in dungeons

[random obsidian]

For most players it wouldnt change anything

and sometimes you'd be allowed to not feel useless

[fathom bramble]

instead we got a whole new class that just has burst uncapped aoe

[vague cape]

They said you should be good at your cap if you are capped

[royal ermine]

I mean going into shadowlands they capped a ton of stuff because they didn't want people mass pulling dungeons yet they decided to play favorites and leave shit like mage uncapped still

[fathom bramble]

and random reworks that gave people uncapped burst aoe

[royal ermine]

it was doomed from the getgo

[vague cape]

Meanwhile fury warriors bottom on 4-5t xd

Council in vault exposed this system as the sham it is

Boomkin, totally uncapped gapping everyone

[fathom bramble]

logging into the Shadowlands beta and watching a WL drop an infernal and do twice the other 2 dps combined revealed it to me pretty quick

[vague cape]

I missed s3-4 sl, I hear it was a wild time

[random obsidian]

Wonder when they'll finally totally give up on it and remove the last few hardcapped specs

i mean

the caps

not the specs

[vague cape]

It ain’t happening, I have no faith anymore

[random obsidian]

Feels like they just need to acknowledge it was a failure

[royal ermine]

I'm bouta login to midnight alpha and see bf uncapped in 2 weeks

[random obsidian]

since it was

[royal ermine]

totally gonna happen

[random obsidian]

but don't want to

[royal ermine]

[vague cape]

This is exactly the kind of thing they’re really bullheaded about and won’t admit they’re hurting enjoyment for the players due to some principle they hold

[cinder haven]

Give acro back

[random obsidian]

that too

[vague cape]

I tried begging realz, aura nerf and keep acro

Didn’t work

[fathom bramble]

probably wasn't up to realz

[vague cape]

Yeah v likely

[fathom bramble]

a gamewide move back to 5yrd melee isn't something 1 class designer gets to decide

[dawn talon]

but how do you design keys that are challenging, engaging, and fair that scale reasonably in difficulty with key level when what you can pull is capped arbitrarily

[random obsidian]

Idk who made that decision

but he certainly didnt play melee

and hated melee players

most likely a boomie or mage

[dawn talon]

streaming is an important part of community perception of videogames these days, like it or not, and big pulls that most people can't pull off make for really good content

[fathom bramble]

I like to say that there are some specs with a class passive that is 1060% stronger than acro

[dawn talon]

the hard cap was never going to be long for this world imo

[vague cape]

Well if the promise held true you would be able to clear a 5 mob pack faster than a 6 or 7 mob pack assuming you were comparing 5t capped specs that is the best at that target count vs uncapped which can hit more targets but less efficiently and pulling more is risky

[royal ermine]

rework paladins and give them a 20y range passive "man this sure does look dumb melee attacking from this far away", better remove 3y range from rogue / feral and let ret keep that shit

[vague cape]

They just missed the tuning mark massively

[royal ermine]

I'm pretty sure they quite literally used animations as an excuse to get rid of it unless I'm misremembering

[fathom bramble]

we also still attack things from further away than it appears that we should be able to physically hit them...

[dawn talon]

but who wants to watch you pull 3 nothing mobs and 2 casters

[fathom bramble]

because that is and always will be required for an mmo to not suck

[random obsidian]

Tbf it seems like a lot of games have that issue where the dev(s) try to be "too controlling" of how the players enjoy their game

and want them to play it one way instead of another

[vague cape]

It’s an example, I don’t mean litterally 5 mob pulls

Nothing but fury is capped to 5 anyway

And even they have uncapped aoe now

[fathom bramble]

I would rather have a forced route that is packs of 3/5/8 mobs and no possible flexibility from the players to do weird shit

to be honest

all my favorite dungeons have been linear ones where you don't really do anything except pull through the key

[fluid meadow]

cc chaining for 30 min in a dungeon with a comp whos not using single interrupt or cc is really not enjoyable

[dawn talon]

i feel like that just kills most of the interest in mythic+ for a looot of people though

[fluid meadow]

meanwhile others just can't do that

[dawn talon]

definitely not a popular opinion from people ive talked to

[random obsidian]

I enjoy big open dungeons

[fathom bramble]

I mean he asked who wants to pull 3 nothing mobs and 2 casters

that's me

idc

[random obsidian]

both playing them and watching better players play them

[stiff glade]

Yeah, and imagine how a fight like Dimensius would work if we didn't

[dawn talon]

i asked who wants to watch that

[random obsidian]

linear dungeons are fine too tbf

[dawn talon]

i don't mind hitting 3 nothing mobs and 2 casters bc my spec is fun

but nobody wants to watch that

[royal ermine]

real talk dimensius melee hitbox is already pretty dogshit as it is

[fathom bramble]

oh

I mean designing around watchability is how you kill your video game

in my opinion

[random obsidian]

maybe unpopular opinion but Grim Batol was fun

[royal ermine]

[fathom bramble]

but I'm sure it is more fun to watch a lot of bars and numbers

[dawn talon]

designing without considering it at all is also how yuo kill your videogame

[fathom bramble]

entertainers will make the game fun to watch no matter what it is

the game should be fun to play first

[dawn talon]

i mean

[random obsidian]

i think the point is more that big open dungeons allow for more creativity hence its fun to watch

[fathom bramble]

if it's fun to play then it will be fun to watch for those that know how to play it

[dawn talon]

paragon was fun as fuck to play and the monetisation system was not particularly predatory, the stars practically aligned for it

[random obsidian]

how they cook their pulls etc...

[dawn talon]

but it was also completely unwatchable

and then it died

and got revived n+1 times and died every single time because it is completely unwatchable and that does not bode well for the success of a game

[random obsidian]

do you guys remember that tech in Rise of galakrond in DF, where you could put the last portal somewhere far away and gain lots of time? I think they did in in the MDI or TGP i dont remember

[vague cape]

Low-key, idk who even wants to watch keys in general

[random obsidian]

Never doing that in our keys but it was indeed fun to watch

[vague cape]

Or wow really outside of race and pvp

[dawn talon]

plenty of people only care about wow to watch the race, the mdi, and maybe the awc if they care about pvp

[random obsidian]

Very helpful when you're tanking tbf

You learn a lot just watching other better tanks play

[dawn talon]

so, getting those people to watch live keys if they already watch the mdi

was the ostensible goal of tgp

and many, many changes to mythic+

[fluid meadow]

do u remember every other bug/thing what they removed next week after mdi/tgp? was soo fun too

[dawn talon]

to make it easier to understand from a viewer's perspective and have more 'oh, these guys are fucking owning' moments

[fluid meadow]

winning money with a tech and they remove it from the game next week, happened so many times

[random obsidian]

Nah but my point was just that tech/creativity in m+ is fun, and big open dungeons usually allow these more than the linear ones

and yeah sadly blizzard doesnt really like that kind of stuff

[dawn talon]

a lot of it is really degenerate tbf

the thing w the portals in fall was actually really cool

but a lot of it is degenerate as fuck

one of my fav keys ever tho was dht

and the bosses in there were meh

the routing was just really fucking cool

[random obsidian]

I've forgotten most of them tbf

Its fine as long as the routi g is fun

Yeah same dht was very cool

[dawn talon]

routing should be more fun than it is stressful

the easiest way to do that imo is having it be possible to (without the risk of someone bodypulling them) skip problematic/annoying/super time consuming mobs

also, can we get some kind of official ingame mdt while they're addressing addons?

[random obsidian]

Kinda crazy we still dont have that

[dawn talon]

i feel like tanking would be 1000x more fun if i didn't have to just hope that people in low keys can follow me

[cedar kernel]

finally

fuck it!

6 hrs

finally made it

[stiff glade]

Gz Bac!

[cedar kernel]

i need to have some rest rn

too tired

its been a long time that i havent do such high apm there

[remote pecan]

outlaw needs buffs
Mythic forgeweaver, 1.1% wipe, 100% parsing, last on boss dmg
this is cooked

[stiff hawk]

??

Thats some nit picky statement

[lime lake]

wipe parses are wildly inaccurate anyway

like genuinely useless to look at

[stiff hawk]

Yeah and looking at boss dmg in an Add Cleave fight

and comparing Boss DMG to your parse

is far fetched af

Like Sentinel, Loomithar, Fractillus are fights where you can compare it

[remote pecan]

ok i change my statement then, trickster ST needs buffing

2.5m ST is pretty whack uptime isnt even that much of an issue

[stiff hawk]

Like yeah Outlaw needs a ST Buff

But there are better Bosses to show that

thats all im saying

[remote pecan]

not rly because the ST bosses we dont play trickster. FB's st is fine but only becuase it's propped up by coins

[daring oxide]

Forgeweaver is a very annoying boss imo

One pull i had where we got to 0.4%

[stiff hawk]

But thats the point isnt it, you can change stuff

And Forgeweaver is an Add Controll fight

[daring oxide]

I had this:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VrWDvZxmdapwT6CX?type=damage-done&fight=36

then

on the kill

its how RNG the fight can be

based on RTB luck

and ofc unseen blades 2p luck as well (getting more coup procs at the right timing means u have Flawless form stacks for your vanish when adds spawn)

makes a huge difference in the fight

plus uptime on good buffs

at the right time...

[vivid vessel]

nice boss damage cuh

actual last

[daring oxide]

ya

[vivid vessel]

what a spec

[daring oxide]

trickster 1fth

is so bad at ST

[tropic zephyr]

[daring oxide]

on a good pull

i was around middle of the pack on boss daamge

[vivid vessel]

this is sub vurai

[daring oxide]

damage*

[vivid vessel]

boss damage

[daring oxide]

ye

sub is just so much better atm

Im trying to get dagger and netherprism asap

are you using araz trinket as well?

[vivid vessel]

dotn have it

[daring oxide]

netherprism+araz

ah ok

[vivid vessel]

i have everything else tho

[daring oxide]

you want it right?

[vivid vessel]

eh

doesnt amtter

It sim the same

Do think it's better in practice tho

But probably not that insane

[daring oxide]

i think its better in practice aye

like for when you line up cds with stuff, and wanna stack netherprism up more to max

was watching exile/perfecto play dimmy

[vivid vessel]

on nexus king i think

it got big value

[daring oxide]

its pretty good for dimmy too

[vivid vessel]

ye

[daring oxide]

like an on use is always ready for every phase

[vivid vessel]

well with prism aswell ^^

[daring oxide]

ye

outlaw needs buff

its just annoying though

like how one pull i can be good at everything

then next pull (kill) i get the worst RTB luck ever, no CTO procs, dry as a fucking desert

CTO bugged imo

doesnt proc

[spare dome]

skill issue

[daring oxide]

yup

just washed

[spare dome]

its assa time grandpa

[daring oxide]

never

rather sub

[vivid vessel]

dude

i thought i would blast fractilus vurai

turns out

i didnt

[daring oxide]

you played outlaw fb on fract?

[vivid vessel]

ye

[royal crane]

that fucking hurts

[vivid vessel]

i had a 2% pull at 5 mil

but like

[daring oxide]

you also playing with double jeopardy bug in mind too right? (like saving vanish for gs/ar, etc)

[vivid vessel]

it was an exception

[vivid vessel]

ye

[daring oxide]

hmm

[vivid vessel]

and another low one