outlaw

[heady gale]

thanks

[gaunt phoenix]

it's very minimal for fatebound

[frail veldt]

As trickster you def want to though I thought

Maybe I should delay bte when I have UB stacks ready to be spent

Cuz setting myself back two globals from a bte then an ace proc then a dispatch is annoying haha

[gaunt phoenix]

holy cloak gaming

[slim hare]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[copper radish]

is that with the boosting boots? was a noticeable boost to the cloak when i got them

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[frail veldt]

Yeah how much overall is boots haha

Must be a decent chunk

[cinder harbor]

Hey!
New Outlaw Rogue here (played Assa and Sub for most my life), question about enchants, I see most Outlaws in M+ running 2x Authority of Radiant Power or 1x that + another, but 2x Oathsworn's Tenacity sims higher in dungeon sims 🤔

[gaunt phoenix]

they're pretty similar, you can go either one

it's kind of new that tenacity looks well

most people are probably unaware

[cinder harbor]

My gear is still kinda rough since I have so much Mastery from my gear :P my dps looks abit rough atm but hopefully gets better with more Versa ^^

[vivid vessel]

I have a Crit one on my dagger cause it simmed higher for assa and sub

But radiant still simmed higher for outlaw

Disappointly so

I wanted a silly enchant

Oh well

[cinder harbor]

Never thought Outlaw was as fun as it is tbh, never gave it an honest chance

[torpid fiber]

The spec is fun as hell, that's why we complain all the time 😛

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel ur my favorite rogue..

[wintry solar]

Hi Zeross

[proven ocean]

whats up opop

popo*

[wintry solar]

Twiddling my thumbs at work until Wednesday so I can play WoW again

[late swallow]

twiddle my thumbs just for a bit, I'm sick of all the same old shit

thoughts?

[tender wedge]

Might be showing your age there mate 😂

[proven ocean]

[late swallow]

tbh I got into greenday super young

[waxen anchor]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[late swallow]

my first cd when I was like 10 was dookie

[wintry solar]

I'm fuckin lazy

[tender wedge]

Dookie still goes hard

[proven ocean]

@late swallow

I feel yappy

No cappy

[late swallow]

[proven ocean]

Wtf

[late swallow]

are you gonna push as sub or sin now

[proven ocean]

How about none of the 2

[late swallow]

outlaw?!

[gaunt phoenix]

holy coin gaming

[proven ocean]

0 specs

Wont push soon

[wintry solar]

Different class??

[proven ocean]

Maybe later

[wintry solar]

Oh

My next guess was osrs

[proven ocean]

Not interested in this season anymore

Ye osrs

And raid in between

Thats it

[late swallow]

i'm not playing this season either ross

[wintry solar]

Trickz got me into OSRS

[proven ocean]

Ye osrs good

[late swallow]

i'm legit just biking, working out, reading, and watching shows

[proven ocean]

Assa nerfs just destroyed all my will to play

Wow

[late swallow]

yapping in here too ofc

[proven ocean]

Just osrs for now i guess

[proven ocean]

I had a big yapping night today

[wintry solar]

I'm getting elite pvp sets on my rogue and DK and bouncing until remix.

[proven ocean]

Like

10/10 yapping

All kinds of yappings

Cursed cooked fried

Overcooked

No cappy

[late swallow]

love a good yap sesh ngl

[proven ocean]

Stronger than weran yappings

Was fun tho

[late swallow]

bad yapping hours atm, all the NA r1 yap rio giga god gamers are having dinner and getting ready for monday rn

[proven ocean]

[fathom bramble]

need to wait for like 1 AM NA for the good yapping hours

[gaunt phoenix]

tails gaming

[shell fossil]

using the old killing spree icon

https://tenor.com/view/chefs-kiss-french-chef-perfect-dish-excellent-food-perfection-gif-20341505

[ripe ibex]

@proven ocean hey

[copper radish]

know ur about to be in a fun key when the tanks doing more healing than the healer after the first boss... RIP

[wintry solar]

What tank

[copper radish]

a prot war was healing like 2x more than a disc priest on the first pull of Ara

and thru the first boss....

[indigo token]

outlaw feels so weak man

[gaunt phoenix]

rly

[indigo token]

im at 705 and im at the bottom of the charts on dim

[cinder relic]

dimensius is the worst outlaw fight ever made

[fathom bramble]

yeah we are abysmal on dim

[cinder relic]

Like they couldnt have made it worse for the type of spec outlaw is

[fathom bramble]

and kind of weak in general outside of trickster PC padding

dim logs definitely tell exactly the story you would expect (95th heroic all damage)

[stiff vector]

not only is it the worst outlaw boss ever made, but for some reason my character specifically just dies basically 50% of the time mid air upon taking the portal to the platform, to add insult to injury

idk wtf the issue is, my character is legit just bugged I guess

[indigo token]

like

unstealthing on the way to arena

constant mounting and intermissions which fuck with AR uptime

[brisk crypt]

Is unyielding Netherprism any good for outlaw?

[gaunt phoenix]

it is technically in aoe but not nearly like other specs

[brisk crypt]

fairs

[late swallow]

literally just play sub

sub goated on that fight

[indigo token]

1. outlaw crafted wep

2. i dont know how to play sub

3. i like outlaw and sin ST is cancer

[torpid fiber]

you legit might get more dps by playing sub awfully without a crafted weapon

[fathom bramble]

you will

[indigo token]

i have zero (0) daggers

[fathom bramble]

well maybe not with literally no daggers I guess

[indigo token]

https://cdn.7tv.app/emote/01HCQEJKS00002DEFPPVJX99PY/2x.gif

[proper bear]

I like that they adjust BF/ST dmg, I’d like to see it done again to keep aoe ok but more ST. Additionally, idk why they have BF start low at 8 and add below cap, instead of just start high at 2 and reduce out - and go beyond 8

Seems like the simplest way to balance law more but maybe I’m missing something

[haughty wigeon]

oyi dumb question

but does meld

trigger stuff like subta?

and crackshot?

or anything stealth related ?

[sturdy crow]

I sank when this happened to me, very clear indicator that the rogue dev is still having a great time in Honolulu.

[torpid fiber]

It's an outlaw bug only

It only happens if you have subterfuge

Maybe sin also takes subt idk

[sturdy crow]

Oh that makes sense

[torpid fiber]

No it doesn't

[sturdy crow]

The other rogue in my guild was saying “wdym unstealth”

[torpid fiber]

Yeah it's really stupid

[indigo token]

like

and we're suppossed to trust them to "fix outlaw rogue"

[frank finch]

hey

in the midnight previews they have outlaw using 2 daggers

[cinder relic]

Well considering every single version of outlaw people in here have generally speaking, enjoyed, I'd say yes

[frank finch]

let them cook

[copper radish]

is there any reason for us to run hard mode taz this season other than fun?

[cinder relic]

You get a mythic piece of loot

[indigo token]

you think hardmode taz is fun?

P.O.S.T. master is such a dogshit boss

[copper radish]

nah the place sucks

any reason for us to run it?

[copper radish]

answers that

is there conditions on thaqt like no deaths

[ripe ibex]

ye

if you haven’t done it already you are forever behind and there is no point

it’s gg

forever

[cinder relic]

U have to do it deathless, yes

[indigo token]

@copper radish

[cinder relic]

wut

[mighty pivot]

CHAMPI
ON

[fair oak]

It says champion right there...

[mighty pivot]

if you add a GN between those two you get mushrooms

[fair oak]

Man last week there was a guy in a bus who was just eating mushrooms out of a bag

[indigo token]

like button mushrooms

or psychedelics

[fair oak]

Idk what kind but he was just stuffing fistfuls of shrooms in his mouth

I'm not sure

But they looked like mushrooms

[fathom bramble]

really hope they don't do the hardmode 1 try myth loot again

[mighty pivot]

it's the dumbest shit

[fathom bramble]

at least let people try more than once or just make it require a hardmode clear

if your entire raidteam does it it is the same number of myth track items as doing 4 bosses

[cinder relic]

I like the idea, bad execution

[fathom bramble]

or 5 bosses

and for M+ only gamers it doubles the amount of Mythic loot you get per week

making it virtually required yet also way too easy to fail

[leaden sonnet]

It not having a reset is really weird, wouldve prefered if it was tuned noticeably harder but you could reset if you failed

Feels so punishing for no reason

[fathom bramble]

I also have another complaint in that it has vastly different loot value depending on your spec/class

and for what ends up being a pretty major loot source in the first few weeks that just doesn't seem right

[copper radish]

second u die its like why even finish lol

[cinder relic]

Yeah also with so many slots being on lock this tier also sucked lol

Like belt/boots

[copper radish]

safe to say i think i can skip taz hard mode this season and not miss much lol

[indigo token]

its insane how unfun hardmode taz is

the mechs are ass

bosses are unfun

so goddamn stressfun

[vagrant saddle]

imo its fun, but the fact 1 death = fail amkes it unfun

[indigo token]

you like hot potato?

well

ur a potato

doesnt count ig

[fathom bramble]

just pick up the package and vanish to break the root btw

and you can just run it yourself

[indigo token]

is fatebound or trickster better for dim

[fathom bramble]

fatebound

[indigo token]

okak

[cinder relic]

A challenge is fun

Its the entire point of mythic

[grim spear]

capped aoe
no prio
zero st

never feeled this weak

[indigo token]

AND NO HEAD

[copper radish]

if i had to vote... Ara and HOA are the worst this season and Eco is the easiest by far

[cinder relic]

do ppl not fw eco dome

[copper radish]

i love it ez 3 boss run

Ara makes me cringe

[quartz patio]

The ST KiR build, we use the combo points on either 6 or 7 points, right? Or always 7?

[grim spear]

567

[hasty night]

Is trickster ST supposed to be dogshit or am i just doing something wrong ?

M+ build

[cinder relic]

67

[grim spear]

67 outside subterfuge

567 within

[quartz patio]

Okay. Thank you both

[grim spear]

it's dogshit

[hasty night]

Good to know ty

[cinder relic]

67

[leaden sonnet]

Eco dome is one of the dungeons of all time for sure

[grim spear]

no st and no prio completely ruined what this spec is meant to be

[leaden sonnet]

Idk its not bad, but i dont think its great either, its just fine

[shy pecan]

KS > coup with new tier still?
And what if I am on low cp + have coup and KS up? Feels more natural to send coup -> ks -> coup (if I cant build without using SS). Is there a clear rule for this?

!pre

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[keen belfry]

ez

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[indigo token]

DIMENSIUS IS DOWN

holy fuck

[formal veldt]

Ive noticed some players not running KIR in high keys, as outlaw, even with 4 set, is there a reason?

[indigo token]

it was down to me, the sin rogue, and the windwalker

[frail veldt]

I love it EXCEPT for how much it hurts my eyes in the sand area

Also the visuals of the spells in that dungeon are horrible in general

It missed the spell effects update for sure

[frail veldt]

Are there?

As in theyre running HO?

Also what is a high key

HO is about 6% behind in dslice last time I checked so it's not like make or break not playable but as the season progresses it will hold you back

[late swallow]

Insane work king

Now lets see paul allen’s gear

[cinder relic]

[strong halo]

What do I do for the 2nd ring slot other than gambit ring

[gaunt phoenix]

boe\

[strong halo]

Is it worth spamming delves for hero haste ring?

[strong halo]

I don’t have that type of gold

[gaunt phoenix]

craft

[glass mortar]

believe in ur delve vault

8 +11s every week

and u'll get one

trust

[formal veldt]

Yeah, Nessa, an outlaw rogue that runs with noxivvs group, is running H/O instead, with vigor, they pump pre hard too

[gaunt phoenix]

prob cause they are good player

they are prob aware that HO is worse but they accept the loss to play something they are comfortable with

[haughty wigeon]

^

[wintry solar]

They shouldn't do that and should only play what I deem what is acceptable

[frail veldt]

Preach

Been saying that

10/10

[buoyant stratus]

I gave up trying to convince nessa that KiR is better. Shes an HO enjoyer

[eager sundial]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[pastel cedar]

why is our ST so dookie butt?

[willow portal]

i really need a wa that tells me when to roll and when to kir

i still fuck that up alot

[late swallow]

who up rolling they bones?

[knotty needle]

im rolling it

[tender wedge]

because otherwise it would splash too much with BF and PC

[molten oasis]

its a random chance for the champ track Cudgel right

[torpid fiber]

Yep

[molten oasis]

sweet thanks so the 678 one best we got till then?

[torpid fiber]

Iirc it's replaced by hero track but there's a pin about it somewhere

[tender wedge]

not for me, 678 cudgel is simming higher even than my 620 assass dagger for dslice

i'll probably get rid of it out of p[rinciple tho

[torpid fiber]

it's better on specific target counts but you have to do weapon swap stuff

[tender wedge]

yeah im not about that life

until i loot a vet one then yes i am about that life again

[worthy tartan]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sacred fog]

How's outlaw single target in keys, compared to sub?

[plucky sonnet]

even without BIS sub gear, my outlaw(ST) in m+ talents is worse than sub(ST) in m+ talents

by about 100k dps

[vivid vessel]

Sub m+ talent is basically the same as their raid talent

Outlaw st Is about 25% behind with our key talents

Insane number btw

[plucky sonnet]

outlaw trickster ST is so bad 💔

[vivid vessel]

Never seen before

[smoky lotus]

Nimble flurry should also give 20% bf on main target 😄

[haughty wigeon]

why are tank players

so shit man

[stiff vector]

.....this has been my luck trying to get loot so far this season

[haughty wigeon]

im so upsetti

[cinder haven]

I don't wanna be baited into playing sub in keys again

let's pray for outlaw ST buff

[torpid fiber]

Fatebound pure ST is too good (read: competant) for us to get buffed is my worry

[cinder haven]

what if nimble flurry gave a % of BF damage on main target (funnel)

[stiff vector]

calling fatebounds ST competent is generous

[smoky lotus]

maybe when they invent deathstalker outlaw

[torpid fiber]

Oh I didn't realise how ass we were doing even on fractillus

Idk my worry is that our ST is slightly too good to get buffed and our AoE is slightly too good to get buffed but they both have huge conditions and we can't do both at once

[plucky sonnet]

they just aura buff the class while nerfing BF damage again to balance it out

[torpid fiber]

Maybe they'll see that specifically trickster ST is unusable and buff it, they've done that before for other specs

[cinder haven]

if they look at damage to bosses we may get a buff

[plucky sonnet]

they could also buff the still garbage trickster tier set

[haughty wigeon]

[stiff vector]

the most hilarious part is when you look at boss dmg statistics for the bosses we play trickster on, it shows just how comically horribly the hero trees are designed, and how terribly designed KS is(and prob a bit of tuning issues). Spec that is supposed to do prio damage and cleave off boss, gets gapped by specs that even have to choose to press a ST or aoe spender

[haughty wigeon]

maybe

[stiff vector]

https://tenor.com/view/cinema-gif-5935759059195122434

[torpid fiber]

Someone should take the "old ks clipping through dawnbreaker boat" gif and put absolute cinema as a caption on it

[cinder relic]

A lot of classes have an "Aoe and ST" hero talent

[torpid fiber]

Ye

[frail veldt]

I mean its likely she knows but doesnt care

[cinder relic]

Trickster atm just costs too much ST for not enough AoE

and outlaws general baseline tuning isn't that high

[frail veldt]

I hope so

[torpid fiber]

Yeah I don't expect them to make trickster our goto ST tree, I just think it's possible they buff specifically the ST of it so it's less far behind

[rare gulch]

is outlaw really that bad? i hitted new tierset yesterday and i feel like i do the same dmg as last season with 690 and 3.5m - 4.5m depends on the key overall. feels impossible to do more than this.
iam just really bad right ?

[stiff vector]

the problem is also with fatebound having some of the worst design too, its not just a trickster issue

[haughty wigeon]

fatebound can be fixed with a line change thankfully

[frail veldt]

Give it like 2-3 more weeks as more people get tier/gear/trinkets etc

[haughty wigeon]

they just gotta

do it

[frail veldt]

were only gona go down on the logs

outlaw gets worse every week for at least the first month or two

assuming no tuning

[haughty wigeon]

trickster can also be f ixed with some line changes but again they have to do it

[cinder relic]

pure ST is not rogues strong suit rn

[frail veldt]

yeah

[torpid fiber]

Oh huh
Wcl heroic damage to bosses stat at 95th percentile we're already the worst (I don't feel like this is cherrypicking bc the only two percentiles I checked were "all data" and 95th, and damage to bosses was the conversation topic)

[frail veldt]

even sub is struggling

[haughty wigeon]

alot of specs seeing hero tree face lifts in midnight tho

soi

[cinder relic]

None of the 3 specs do "good ST"

[frail veldt]

yep

[cinder relic]

thankfully "good sT" isnt what any wow encounter asks for in a vacuum

[haughty wigeon]

prayge someon who plays outlaw gets alpha

which is soonge btw

[cinder relic]

Now that doesn't help Outlaw, but it does help sub

[torpid fiber]

Wait fuck is the standard "top player" wcl filter 90 or 95

[frail veldt]

the sad part is outlaw doesnt even do good ST in the hero talent that adds like 15% st

so

[torpid fiber]

I don't want to cherrypick, this is actually important to me when using stats to support an argument

[cinder relic]

I always do 95%

[frail veldt]

is there a "standard"

[craggy barn]

95%

[frail veldt]

I wasnt aware of one

[craggy barn]

top 10% isnt the top players

it covers still too much

lol

[torpid fiber]

I was pretty sure it was 95 but just wanted to confirm

[craggy barn]

5% is good enough

[stiff vector]

you can do decent aoe with trickster if you play cancer 1fth PC at the cost of all of Tricksters already bad ST(prio dmg spec btw), or you can play Fatebound and do below average ST and shit aoe, oh and btw, you have negative funnel built into the hero talents...on top of KS ruining prio because of also terrible design. Tuning can only help these issues so much.

[craggy barn]

bro

KS

does not target fishsticks

so annoying

[torpid fiber]

Yeah, but blizzard doesn't tend to see those issues reflected in the stats and they only have so much time

[torpid fiber]

???? How did they manage this

[haughty wigeon]

i dont think anything targets fishsticks

[cinder haven]

we are dead last on damage to bosses in hc?

[haughty wigeon]

unless something has changed?

[craggy barn]

u cant isolate a fishstick

[torpid fiber]

Didn't they change them to not be totems

[craggy barn]

its so stupid

[haughty wigeon]

havent done gambit yet

[torpid fiber]

Am I stupid

[craggy barn]

bf hits it

but ks doesnt target it at all

[torpid fiber]

At 95th percentile, yeah

[cinder relic]

Part of that is how much ST trickster loses, and how many bosses you go trickster on

[craggy barn]

i literally see my ks just spin and hit nothing

when fishstick is the only thing in front of me

[haughty wigeon]

but like thats normal for totems right?

[craggy barn]

probably

[torpid fiber]

they made it not a totem didn't they

[haughty wigeon]

they were totems last time this shit dungeon was in the roster

[torpid fiber]

Am I insane

[haughty wigeon]

idk

[craggy barn]

yes last time they were

they made them eat splash damage

[torpid fiber]

I thought I heard that they made it not a totem this time

[cinder haven]

oh well, we'll see how the post rwf tuning pass turns out

not expecting much though

[haughty wigeon]

wait so theyre not totems anymore?

[cinder relic]

I'm very much expecting Outlaw to get reworked in Midnight based on the dev comments, I think it's gonna be a state of "Oh well" until then

[haughty wigeon]

and ks doesnt hit em?

thats stupid

[craggy barn]

theyre not full totems at least

[frail veldt]

Yeah id put money on it

[craggy barn]

ks doesnt target it

[haughty wigeon]

wtf

[torpid fiber]

Same here

[craggy barn]

which is annoying

[frail veldt]

1000%

[haughty wigeon]

counts as a half totem

[craggy barn]

but it takes AOE damage

[frail veldt]

its kind of exciting

[cinder haven]

question is if it'll be major rework or small rework

[frail veldt]

though im sure there will be plenty of negatives and the discord will explode

[haughty wigeon]

im actually quite frighten

[craggy barn]

its actually stupid

[haughty wigeon]

i hope it ends up looking good

[frail veldt]

hmmm

yeah good question

[cinder haven]

rework into something unrecognizable, or something similar but with kinks ironed out?

[frail veldt]

Im guessing RTB rework at a minimum

[haughty wigeon]

it'll be weird without a new spec, we're breaking the pattern again like in sl

[stiff vector]

I mean literally everyone could decide to play fatebound on araz/soulbinder if they wanted to, but reality is, even if every outlaw collectively did that...we would still be one oof the worst specs at boss dmg on those fights.

[frail veldt]

wdym

[smoky lotus]

something that doesnt need 100% AR to function

[torpid fiber]

Look if they completely fuck up outlaw I'll probably just quit, so i don't have to deal with the consequences of a bad rework

[haughty wigeon]

every 2 expansions, theres a new class

[frail veldt]

even if they did outlaw would still be piss boss dam

[haughty wigeon]

the only time it was broken was in sl where they didnt introduce a new class

[torpid fiber]

Then you get fatebound anti-funneled

[stiff vector]

well yes, thats what I said

[frail veldt]

yeah I mean this is a short xpac too

so Im not surprised we only get a new spec in midnight

[haughty wigeon]

dk in wotlk, monk in mists, dh in legion, df evoker

[frail veldt]

didnt they confirm its only a 3 season xpac?

[haughty wigeon]

thats true

i guess i cant use that logic

but then again wod was short as well

and legion had a new class

granted its a non problem

[smoky lotus]

theyre into midrange dps classes atm, maybe outlaw rework is full guns 20y range

[haughty wigeon]

cause dh gets new spec

so

[frail veldt]

They probably had a lot more headcount back then

[cinder relic]

Any time blizzard doesn't add content to the game, it's seen as "They are lazy" but they probably just don't have any good ideas for a new class

[haughty wigeon]

i guess

but then like

[cinder relic]

Ppl always say tinker but idk if tinker would make sense contextually within the midnight story

[haughty wigeon]

there was the survey

spellbreaker would make the most sense for the story

[torpid fiber]

I'm not convinced there's actually enough material to make 3 interesting tinker specs

[haughty wigeon]

so they have idea i guess like mewo said, not enough headcount

[craggy barn]

tinker in last titan tho

[haughty wigeon]

besides i guess rtb

[frail veldt]

I was more just saying they might not have the resources available

[craggy barn]

titan construct shit

[haughty wigeon]

what weakaura stuff does outlaw have/need

[frail veldt]

since tww is a 3 season xpac

[haughty wigeon]

that isnt standard in other specs

?

[torpid fiber]

Unseen Blade tracker

[craggy barn]

^^

[cinder relic]

They probably said "Housing is a more important feature than a new class, so lets do a new spec for DH instead rather than a whole new class"

[stiff vector]

RTB container shit

[frail veldt]

and they kind of implied the triptych expansions will be short too

[haughty wigeon]

fuck true

both

[frail veldt]

housing is huge

[torpid fiber]

Container stuff you can kinda do manually

[haughty wigeon]

housing probably taking prio

over everything

which granted im not mad about

housing is awesome

[frail veldt]

container buff is pretty tough to do

without a wa

[cinder haven]

housing and the ui stuff

[haughty wigeon]

legit gonna spend all 11.2.7 decorating my house

[cinder relic]

Like I mean, idrc about new classes, I never really bother with them much, a new DH spec will be cool to try for a bit, I don't think it's really indicative of anything greater

and yeah this expac cycle is a bit faster than usual

[stiff vector]

I mean I used to do container shit manually just looking at my WA that showed my buffs without the container information, its doable but...not for most people.

[haughty wigeon]

so rtb in general, container stuff, unseenblades

what else?

[frail veldt]

how is it doable

[haughty wigeon]

crackshot alert w/a? even tho it already glows i guess?

[torpid fiber]

Hmm I should take another look at the container buff opts bc I've just been yoloing it by using the luxthos WAs

[frail veldt]

if you roll at 42 seconds

with 4 yellow

and 2 turn red

they will all be 42 seconds

but if you didnt have the wa

you literally couldnt tell

which were which

theres no way

its literally impossible haha

[cinder relic]

Outlaw used to be a spec about having clean fundamentals when it comes to building and spending combo points, now it's a spec about doing good damge windows and balancing 5+ different procs all while being 90apm

[craggy barn]

ace has a built in sound already

[frail veldt]

youd have to be staring at it to see that two of the buffs tick over like 100 ms before the other two

[cinder relic]

I'm hoping the rework addresses this

[cinder haven]

it is for sure a lot of work for average damage

[torpid fiber]

wow players don't play with game sound on smh

[haughty wigeon]

thats silly

i play with sound on

[cinder relic]

I mean even if it was the best spec in the game, it just isn't that enjoyable for me anymore

[cinder haven]

but we have giga-mobility

[torpid fiber]

I play with sound on as well

[haughty wigeon]

my xeph weakaura has a sound to tell me when a cd is ready

[frail veldt]

the fuck?

[cinder haven]

being super mobile is fun

[cinder relic]

Outlaw is just too much effort atm, whether its damage is insane or not

[cinder haven]

if they give back acro I forgive everything

[frail veldt]

my god

[torpid fiber]

I swear half the time I watch a wow stream the only audio they have on is addon audio

[frail veldt]

I would cry tears of joy

[haughty wigeon]

i cant wait till tuesday

[frail veldt]

thats wild

[cinder haven]

spec can be infinitely complex as long as I can have acro back

[haughty wigeon]

just in cause alpha comes out

[stiff vector]

give acro back, unfuck our prio damage

[haughty wigeon]

make proper stat scaling

[stiff vector]

or we close the discord ret style

[haughty wigeon]

so we're not verse andys froever

[torpid fiber]

We should do this anyways even if the changes are shit, just to stop the complaining

[cinder haven]

we'll be significantly less tanky if we don't stack vers, idk if we should wish for that

[haughty wigeon]

i mean

it did make paladins the focus in the new wow cinematic

[torpid fiber]

I'm fine with being vers #1 I'd just prefer it if mastery wasn't #8

[haughty wigeon]

i mean you can make all stats closer to each other while having verse no1

[cinder haven]

I want the haste cap fixed

[haughty wigeon]

it just

[cinder haven]

I want to benefit from BL

[haughty wigeon]

not okay for verse to be the no1 stat of any spec

[smoky lotus]

Im just jealous I never get to participate in the bloodlust enjoyment

[stiff vector]

im fine with vers being strong, but not because literally all of the rest of the stats are just egregiously bad value

[craggy barn]

and not being a troll target for PI

[cinder haven]

worse than tank for PI 🙂

[haughty wigeon]

lok had banger ideas

for haste

i like those

[cinder haven]

it's not hard to fix

[craggy barn]

like id never want to be THE PI target, but if u randomly get it

its just like

why

[haughty wigeon]

we can make bte debuff increase crit damage instead of crit chance

[torpid fiber]

PI doesn't bother me anymore because they can just PI someone else and it's hopefully similar group damage

[craggy barn]

not oh neat

[haughty wigeon]

mastery buffed to be not shit

[craggy barn]

id like it to be oh neat

[cinder haven]

chance for abilities to hit an extra time or something

[haughty wigeon]

cause god who knows how to make that good

[craggy barn]

like sin PI isnt bad

its not OP

anymore

in the same vein, i think i dont mind sub being dogshit with haste/pi/bloodlust

[haughty wigeon]

not looking forward to losing my favorite hero tree as veng tho

i think thats why i want alpha info now

cause

[craggy barn]

since sub is very much about its own burst timings

[haughty wigeon]

i want to know if the new hero tree is atleast burst oriented

like a meteor based on fury spent

so you can do

[craggy barn]

outlaw just feels like bl/haste in general should actually be meaningful outside of just a requirement

[haughty wigeon]

build max resource, brand, commence boss backshots

[frail veldt]

what makes you think youd lose it

you could lose the other one right?

[haughty wigeon]

already confirmed

[pearl fjord]

I have 9% haste rn so I believe i should be play HO, but anytime I sim the KiR build does more damage. Do I still stick with HO at these haste levels or say screw it and go KiR?

[haughty wigeon]

veng loses felscarred

[frail veldt]

ah damn

maybe the new one is sick

[craggy barn]

haste does have some minor value for energy regen, but we still dont really care for haste outside of the requirement (unless playing HO with gs)

[haughty wigeon]

im legit hoping on god

[frail veldt]

playing KiR at 9% haste is very unfun imo

can you link the sim?

devourer sounds cool im kinda down for it

[craggy barn]

devourer deez nuts

[frail veldt]

I wish I liked DH more though

devourer

I hardly know her

[haughty wigeon]

real

its gonna be consistency spec btew mewo

based on current info

and some insider info

[pearl fjord]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xvKnAQaczWL1JGHwk5Ttca

Here is the SIM

[frail veldt]

do you have the HO sim too?

[pearl fjord]

yea one sec

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xpxmhvRCzis3fDbfyj8ESf\

[frail veldt]

you need to take improved ambush

as HO

[night dragon]

After some days off I have this show up - but cant find the setting to remove it... Can any of you help me where to disable it?

the health / energy / combopoints

[frail veldt]

I think its called "personal resource display"

if you search for that in settings you shoudl be able to turn it off

[night dragon]

Thanks!!

[frail veldt]

yw

[pearl fjord]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cfaRaZnHqg312CSpUJt5ho

Okay now its better, I really thought I had that talent taken

[frail veldt]

barely better though haha

honestly surprising still

[delicate seal]

I like how they pick the one expac they neglect the spec to take it away

One last 🖕🏻

[pearl fjord]

I was really wondering why it felt worse to play than KiR and automatically now im realizing why

[buoyant cosmos]

Do you like how WW plays?

[honest carbon]

So i mained assasination last and this season and wanted to switch to outlaw now. When i sim both specs they have pretty equal numbers, both around 3.1 mil single target. But as outlaw i only hit around 1.5 mil the whole time. Is there some key to it? Thanks

[vivid vessel]

idk, if you ignore trickster is a thing, you play kir and its just that, i dont think its much different of some outlaw iterations we had in sl, keep in mind in sl we had stuffs like mfd/sbs that added a lot to the spec aswell, now instead we just have an addictional proc with ace, which imo is peak outlaw proc anyway and i see no issues with
fth is just intuitive outlaw building rules, and idk, the rest is just build spend, the onyl thing that throw everything off is when you add trickster in with ub tracking and double coup and whatever the fuck

[frail veldt]

KiR builder spender rules feel great but the rtb system on KiR is a little much I think for most people approaching the spec the first time

Also low lows should be addressed too

Back to the same idea that non adr shouldn't feel as bad as it does

[vivid vessel]

might be fine once we get vigot on all builds

potentially

[vivid vessel]

By rtb system do you mean the container thing

Which I agree

But I also think kir should be half reworked so it actually work like that but is communicated in game

So like you actually lock your buff till they expire, they have a distinct diff icon

And you can rtb on cd if you want during these buffs and never lose them

Container theory isn't a thing anymore gg

But I mean that's how CTO buffs should work as well

Like really what makes outlaw so convoluted rn is all the trickster bullshit

Outlaw got simplified a lot going into tww

No more dance

No more er

No more er cps

Bte reset on stealth

All these things

Very good also

Bte reset we asked for so long

Made the spec much simpler but was a good change

I don't think outlaw need much more dumbed down

It's legit just trickster need to be nuked

And the base spec need to work without ADR

So either vigor fixes that

Or they give us back energy

[random obsidian]

Idk why we lost ER, it felt more than fine to play

meanwhile there's close to nothing fun about trickster

[magic shuttle]

I prefer supercharger over ER

[vivid vessel]

I prefer er because it was bad luck protection

Not the button itself tho

Just the way the cps worked

But idc much at this point

[maiden quail]

I wouldn't mind a little reduction in the RPM required to play the spec

also using vanish to get BtE reset and prolong AR doesn't feel aligned with the class fantasy

[desert tendon]

Holy

Zac already writting chapters

[normal forge]

maybe make RTB a 3 min cd where everytime u press it u get all 6 buffs, then u can extend with KIR, on KIR in a 6 min cd, besides that all you get is count the odds buffs

[hidden bay]

I didnt survive the KS last season and rerolled but playing outlaw as alt now without dying to ks feels good

[normal forge]

make KS hit all targets, no target capped, revert numble fury nerf

[haughty wigeon]

that sounds

horrible

might as well just bake it into kir

and remove rtb completely

[normal forge]

yeah, i dont know, i feel like it would be nice to have some extra burst windows

[plucky rose]

could you tell me the best time to use this trinket@vivid vessel

[vivid vessel]

after a kir, after a couped vanish basically

[vivid vessel]

[vivid vessel]

this is one of the most horrible thing i have ever read

[wintry solar]

Someone retracted their thumbs up

[torpid fiber]

i did because i considered it and realised i'd read a lot worse ideas

it's not a good idea

[wintry solar]

Alpha soon so all the cooks will be coming out of the woodwork

[normal forge]

its ok to disagree, its just brain storming stuff anyways

[wintry solar]

Speculating and coming up with stuff is fun yeah

[vivid vessel]

One thing I could see tho is deleting rtb and having CTO be the main driver, like a CTO on crack

[haughty wigeon]

Just ripping out the bandage

[harsh crystal]

!loot

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406175771495759952/outlaw.webp

[proper veldt]

Seems likely to me tbh it saves all the hassle of containers

[haughty wigeon]

So you don’t get hurt later bby

[proper veldt]

And weak auras

[normal forge]

and change supercharge to be vanish instead of RTB, so every t ime we vanish we will always have supercharge cps

[haughty wigeon]

I don’t think they can dumb down rtb in any way that doesn’t involve removing it tho

That’s the thing

CTO on crack still incentivizes weakauras

Like every spec in the game

[haughty wigeon]

That’s a more solid idea, but I like stuff that gives you a reason to press rtb

To reduce variance

Like you get bad luck? Your still rewarded with something cool

[wintry solar]

Also probably not to add anything else to vanish

[haughty wigeon]

That’s what I liked most about s2 outlaw ho

[wintry solar]

It's pretty loaded atm

[haughty wigeon]

Rtb you pressed on cd and people couldn’t say “rtb is the reason I do no damages

[wintry solar]

Yeah imma miss that one

[normal forge]

if we remove RTB we also free up 2 talents points, from SoH and LD

[bleak rune]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[wintry solar]

And cp and energy gen

Waiting for alpha knowing that changes are possibly otw makes the wait harder

Since we got very few lines going into tww

[normal forge]

have u watched that interview with dev where marcelian online says its impossible to play outlaw rogue without WA and the devs go like "yeah, thats not the way the game should go" or something like that

[wintry solar]

Yeah

A couple times

Normally I wouldn't think anything of it but we got called out by name twice

[desert tendon]

3mn cd rtb

[wintry solar]

Now we'll see how far the pendulum swings

[desert tendon]

[wintry solar]

In terms of simplification

A 3 min CD is what

40 seconds?

[normal forge]

i dont know, maybe a bit more 45s?

same as KS, so we could line up

[wintry solar]

I've been lacking outlaw pve so I've no idea what the CD on ks generally is

But yeah it's not that long a cd

[cedar kernel]

no keys in the world

gg

[sudden quail]

best race for outlaw?

[normal forge]

question on nexus king, when king dismount from dragon, who to focus dps? Dragon or king?

[normal forge]

dwarf

[mighty pivot]

you mean when saladbar is sucking the dragon off?

[normal forge]

yeah

[haughty wigeon]

I mean yes but no

Idk what they can remove

Without upheaving the spec

I don’t want it to be another frost dk or ret paladin or arcane or bm hunter

[wintry solar]

Knowing blizzard they'd remove CTO or something

[haughty wigeon]

Dragon

[wintry solar]

Did they ever give a date for alpha or just the window?

[desert tendon]

To fight weakauras they ll delete rtb ps and bte dwdw

[vivid vessel]

there is a diff between tracking buffs and the container thing

[haughty wigeon]

That unironically would make rtb worse

[vivid vessel]

i think tracking buffs is fine

[wintry solar]

Yeah but it's one less thing to track

[haughty wigeon]

I know same here Zac

[wintry solar]

So its on par with blizz

[vivid vessel]

if they let us customize the cd mamanger to add diff lines and shit

but the container thing is purely a bug

[haughty wigeon]

But like I just don’t get what the dude was referring too

[vivid vessel]

which need cleans up

[haughty wigeon]

Other than buff tracking

[vivid vessel]

ah ye

i mean

i dont get the outlaw need weak aura things

99% of my weak aura are just tracking cds

tracking a few buffs and proc

[desert tendon]

Ub shit

[vivid vessel]

like every spec in the game

the only offensive things are ub

[desert tendon]

Not rallye true zac

I mean

It is

[vivid vessel]

and container

i mean it is true

when i make a weak aura for other specs

its the same as outalw

if antyhing the spec that track the most is assa

cause of all the debuffs

[desert tendon]

But the fast pace and all you need an opportunity tracker for example

[vivid vessel]

ye thats a buff/proc

like when i was playing enahnce

[desert tendon]

Meanwhile other spec proc you have 2s to réact anyway

[vivid vessel]

i was tracking that fire proc

Ok that's just outlaw tho

It's fast

[proven ocean]

..

[desert tendon]

Enhance was very messy as well in sl/early df

[vivid vessel]

But you have no cd management

So like

[desert tendon]

They did a great job at simplifying it

[vivid vessel]

You trade cd management for fast

[proven ocean]

Brb sleep

[wintry solar]

You're suspiciously close to cooking up Combat

[desert tendon]

Make riposte great again

Rogue tank with riposte proc actually

Bump these apm to 120

[wintry solar]

They put rogue tank in the SoD because they're both MEMES

[bleak ibex]

Is outlaw the spec for mythic plus?

[spare dome]

if you want it to be, sure

[inland acorn]

Depends if you mean pushing keys or just weekly

[bleak ibex]

Im asking more like meta

Pushing

[inland acorn]

I dont think it'll be meta

[normal forge]

frost dk or ele shaman are really strong,

[bleak ibex]

Yeah but i wanna try rougue sine my friend play those

[inland acorn]

You could try to push in phys comp in outlaw

[torpid fiber]

It's quite unlikely outlaw will be the meta spec this season

[bleak ibex]

How come

[inland acorn]

But it wont be meta

[torpid fiber]

bad numbers

[bleak ibex]

I saw on archin its the hisgest for higestbkeys

But i know no context

[inland acorn]

Highest keys rn are baby steps

[wintry solar]

Might get a hail mary buff later

[inland acorn]

Real push will start with turbo boost later on

[bleak ibex]

Of the three which do u think is good mythics

[wintry solar]

Just go sub tbh

[inland acorn]

Hard to say rn between sin or sub

[desert tendon]

Outlaw wont be méta since the bfa incident

But still good enough to get 0.1 title

[inland acorn]

I mean you can get 0.1% title on anything as long as you're willing to grind it like mad

[desert tendon]

Yep

That s my point

[bleak ibex]

Maybe but playing some in the bottom tier is alot harder for finding groups

Like alot harder

[inland acorn]

it's hard to say, but it's between sub and sin

[bleak ibex]

K ill try them out

[inland acorn]

We might also get some tuning soon, since RWF ended and a lot of guilds are starting to doing mythic raid

So some numbers might move

[bleak ibex]

Yeah hoping what i usually play gets buffed but will start gearing a rogue incase

[normal forge]

if they nerf outlaw i will switch to frost dk, i swear

[solemn hawk]

Is there a way to get a more detailed breakdown of your damage, so it's not just showing "Blade Flurry" for everything?

[halcyon garden]

heyo do we have a weak aura to pre symbol in raid

a reminder

[ripe ibex]

gm

[torpid fiber]

Wrong channel

[halcyon garden]

oh true

mb

[vivid vessel]

I have one in my pack cuh

[desert tendon]

Nitro

Nitro > zac

Here i said it

[halcyon garden]

et tu vas rien dire zac

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[desert tendon]

Yep

Et tu vas rien dire zac

Owned bozo

[halcyon garden]

he has done more than me on araz

(i just did 4 pulls xd)

[desert tendon]

Guild diff

Nothing to have with the player

[halcyon garden]

nah i have to respect the bro

[desert tendon]

He s 900 ilvl

Cheating

[halcyon garden]

yeah i was not supposed to play the tier

and then my gm told me

do crafts and go slam

i was like ok go

[desert tendon]

I m on a break

[halcyon garden]

im also geared ngl

[desert tendon]

Tho the tier looks awesome

[desert tendon]

I ll probably play only the Last tier of each expansion from now on

The only one that matters

[halcyon garden]

kk

wisp?

whats your guild

[desert tendon]

Bro is leech king

Ayee wisp that was

I wanna find a hof 2 nights a week guild

3 nights is too much

[halcyon garden]

2 nights is pretty hard

impossible in france tbf

[desert tendon]

It is

[normal forge]

need moar mastery

[halcyon garden]

i just trust the robot bro

[desert tendon]

Oh i sure wont Come back to a french guild. Wanna go back to english

[halcyon garden]

where is this reminder

[heady gale]

hi
can someone explain this from the written guide

Trickster only:
Hold onto Vanish until after the second Coup de Grace Icon Coup de Grace hit, unless you have to use it alongside Adrenaline Rush or are about to cap Energy.

is it simply to make sure to use coup before going back into subterfuge?

[wintry solar]

Yes

[heady gale]

do you cast coup at max cp as well?

[torpid fiber]

normal finisher rules apply unless you'd use sinister strike to build in which case you coup instead

[heady gale]

tyty

[torpid fiber]

presumably also if your second coup from the tierset would time out you should send it instantly as well instead of that happening

[oblique trench]

Do I press SS before coup when I have a ub proc?

[spare dome]

no

[willow portal]

how important will sub be in this raid tier? Like should i try and learn it or just try and get better on outlaw

[white lantern]

Is there a good video Guide for Outlaw explaining his rotations while doing it ? I dont get it why Outlaw ist S Tier like Assa. I do so much more DPS as Assa. I must do Play something wrong if i watch Streamer like zac and see that high dmg. I want to improve

[spare dome]

Its not, dont look at tier lists ever again

its early in the season and these highest keys are not even "that" hard

ilvl will go up, people will stop progging raid

more people will push, meta will establish

also just read the faq

everything is there

[cedar kernel]

master interrupter

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

If i told u to fall will u trust me zac or??

[desert tendon]

Remember when we had gouge, were able to press cheapshot and ks was a 15s cd

[proven ocean]

Yea good old days.. i dont remember tho

[desert tendon]

And on top of that had dust

That was so good i swear

I remember on this SoA pack after 2nd boss

Cheap blind gouge kick mfd ks vanish repeat

Caster was owned

[rotund zodiac]

At the first pack, Is it better to double coup then vanish, or double coup inside subterfuge? (If you have max vanish charge)

[proven ocean]

@desert tendon did u know opposite of kitchen is chicken

[desert tendon]

Did you know opposite of zeross is based

[haughty moat]

heya, is there a macro for kidney and cheap shot? so i dont need a stelth bar ?

[vivid vessel]

Outlaw isn't good rn, it's similar to s1 outlaw

[proven ocean]

No cappy

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1406415261082320947/ZacFetchRavenholdt3.gif

[solemn hawk]

Is there a way to get a more detailed breakdown of your damage, so it's not just showing "Blade Flurry" for everything?

[proven ocean]

Idk how detailed u wanna get

BF is ur dmg but cleaved

[willow portal]

just dont use bf

[solemn hawk]

Ye I was just wondering if there was a way to see which damage got cleaved, y'know?

[proven ocean]

Idk i dont think we ever found a reason why other than if certain abilities flurry or not

[proven ocean]

All ur dmg cleaves

So check the highest dmg

Between the eyes

Thats the one that cleaved the most

And so on

It’ll just end up being a copy paste of the other abilities in ur details

U might be able to find that on raidbots tho

[solemn hawk]

Aight cool, thanks :)

[cedar kernel]

yea

but censi tbh i love 8s kindey more

[desert tendon]

It is better

But still single target cc kinda feels bad nowadays

But mfd ks was peak utility

6s cc on demand

[south scaffold]

!gear

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406175771495759952/outlaw.webp

[wintry solar]

Yeah they're bring all that back with the rework censi

SL OL in its entirety

[supple salmon]

can anyone suggest me a decent videoguide for outlaw? written ones are good, i just wanted to check out a vid during lunchbreak

[white lantern]

If i watch your Stream it doesnt seem so 😂 your doing like 15million dps every pull

[lofty sand]

well he said its not bad rn, but later on with gear and better pulls outlaw will be ass

comapred to other specs

[delicate saffron]

thoughts on crafting a dagger so i could use it for MH on sub as well?

[delicate saffron]

there arent much tbh, outlaw starves on content

best you could do is watch povs with low speed i guess

[lofty sand]

yeah from that 12 outlaw players not many creates content

[digital linden]

how much do u guys do st on a target dummy?

[supple salmon]

thanks buddy, most of what i found was just a regurgitated wowhead guide read. was hoping there was something similar to shindiggs stuff on the daggerspecs 🙂

i guess its reflective of how outlaw compares to other specs currently

[digital linden]

ye not too popular of a spec

the outlaw faq here is goated to learn

super good

[covert kestrel]

It likely won't be your most impactful second craft on law, but if you want to play either of the other specs it's a good choice

[supple salmon]

i was looking to pick up outlaw again for multitarget fights because assa MT makes my blood boil, but looks like maybe sub needs to be my goto 😩

[delicate saffron]

yes, sadly

people reading from text kinda wierds me out

[delicate saffron]

yea i also went looking for some outlaw guides like shindings, even he doesnt cover it. just played it until i got the hang of it

[delicate saffron]

id need a sword for an impactful craft on law i assume?

[cedar kernel]

yea it make outlaw has difference

like Spike GSW is the strongest AOE but weak as fuck in ST, Flag BB is the opposite or more balanced, good ST and medium or medium bad aoe

[lucid sandal]

Chill out guys you are talking to the rank 1 rogue on soul hunters 😎

[strong flicker]

is there any difference between 1.8 and 2.6 off

[lucid sandal]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[strong flicker]

ty

[vivid vessel]

While playing outlaw routes (which are worse than normal routes cause target cap), while having a comp that buff me by about 15% that is also worse than normal comps, while being target capped + no burst so strictly no benefit to the spec, while having 0 prio damage
And I still do less than half the specs in the game

[delicate saffron]

remove blade furry target cap, then nerf it to 20% damage

[vivid vessel]

?

[delicate saffron]

would that help

to make outlaw less strict

[vivid vessel]

Idk if you are trolling or not

[delicate saffron]

i am not, just new on the spec

[vivid vessel]

You could soft cap outlaw today and it wouldn't change anything

Like the spec would barely be better

And you just said

Have bf be only 20%

[slate forge]

KS has been buffed another 50%

[delicate saffron]

still doesnt that remove one of the issues you mentioned?

[vivid vessel]

Well if you nerf bf to 20%

It might not exist cuh

[delicate saffron]

yea but if they let it stay at the % its at rn and remove target cap that would do bazzilion damage

but true softcap would be better i guess

[quaint mauve]

im having a huge problem i cant fix

my dragonflight abilities keep popping into my bars

even after i remove them

[slate forge]

Even if you remove target cap tanks are going to pull big around 1.5 min cds which we have no cd to play around

[vivid vessel]

Well nothing is uncapped in this game so that can't really be a thing

But a soft cap

Would just help

And would barely impact outlaw meta spot

Like it would barely be better

[delicate saffron]

outlaw is doomed for niche i assume

[vivid vessel]

Keep in minds we don't have CDs

Well I wish we were good at our niche

We aren't

All the specs in this game that out damage you above 8 targets also out damage you under so

[desert tendon]

Imagine bf 20%

In low target count

Gg

Worst cleave in the game

[mighty pivot]

make bf 10% but give it global reach

so you can cleave the entire instance little by little

[grave bison]

hello guys, I want to ask smthing that maybe it has been asked before but I didn't find it in pins.

Is outlaw competitive?

in m+

I saw the second best rogue is outlaw right now but no1 else plays

[delicate saffron]

with melee comp youre okayish, as stated above

[cedar kernel]

zac said in High keys it will fall off

i agree with that

i am considering to play outlaw and sub both rn

[delicate saffron]

same

[grave bison]

is it ok up to +12

?

[cedar kernel]

once outlaw is pretty hard for me to push i will do sub

[grave bison]

or falling of sooner?

[cedar kernel]

i am doing 14 allg

i think the limit there is 18+

720 ilvl can finish 18+ -19+

~20+ i might switch to sub

[strong halo]

Zac is a doomer because he pushes 0.01% top keys

[cedar kernel]

its too far away bro just push

[elder phoenix]

!rtb

[ornate heath]

How to use RTB
(Assuming season 3 tier and Supercharger)

• Roll if you have 0 or 1 buffs.
• Roll if you have 2 buffs and Loaded Dice is active.
• Roll once asap after pressing KIR, as your buffs don't get rolled away. Use this weakaura to see when your buffs don't get rolled away (yellow border).
• After the KIR roll, continue to watch the weakaura as buffs tick down. As your buffs expire you may hit a point where your remaining buffs are yellow and you can roll again.

[delicate saffron]

whats the highest gear rn

[strong halo]

But realistically most people here are fine to push outlaw

[cedar kernel]

idk maybe ~710

me is 707 rn

[delicate saffron]

theyre already doing 17s i think

[cedar kernel]

yea zac is doing that

[mighty pivot]

if you are doing 12s you can play whatever you want

[delicate saffron]

yea so 720 would probably go higher

[grave bison]

Since I will push with my tank, outlaw is good enough for +12 I suppose

[cedar kernel]

i dont have keys to get into and my new group we are getting familar in progress so

[covert kestrel]

Anyone who has to ask if something is viable is almost certainly not doing the level of content where it wouldn't be

[cedar kernel]

i might say people asking this like is it OP or not, i mean outlaw is no OP in low keys

not very fun to play about dmg compare to sin i think

[strong halo]

What

Outlaw is like 20 times more fun than sin

[grave bison]

I just don't want to waste time and resources and not be accepted on keys because of my class/spec that's why I asked

[young prism]

you sound like you never played outlaw

[strong halo]

You’re not gna get declined because of outlaw. And if you get to push 18+ lmk

[cedar kernel]

if u want to be top 1 in dmg, outlaw is not fun in the progress, it relys a lot of thing

[young prism]

if you want to be top1 in dmg rogue is not the class you are looking for