outlaw

[lone spear]

idk i feel like it works most of the time for me

[fathom bramble]

I reckon you would still time vanishes around the finisher damage

[lone spear]

maybe i am just pressing it at right time (not moving, after globals, etc)

[fathom bramble]

and if you wouldn't thjen they need to buff the flawless form stacks until you do

[mighty pivot]

zac trying to preach UB changes at 04:00

[vivid vessel]

BRO

trickster could be so good

if they just spent

a little time on it

[fathom bramble]

what if flickerstrike is good on forge

[vivid vessel]

..

[fathom bramble]

thoughts @vivid vessel ?

[vivid vessel]

wtf is flickerstrike

is it the vanish shit

again

feint

sorry

[frail veldt]

wait

holup

is that actually

[vivid vessel]

whats aoe tho

[frail veldt]

potentially insane

[fathom bramble]

there's aoe like the entire fight after 20 seconds

[vivid vessel]

isnt it just the soak

[frail veldt]

some raid fights

dude

have perma aoe

[vivid vessel]

i dont feint anything else

im ngl

[fathom bramble]

assuming the raidwide ticking aoe counts as aoe

[frail veldt]

that could be dummy broken LOL

[mighty pivot]

unrealistic expectations

anything that gets the aoe reduction from feint should trigger flickerstrike

[torpid fiber]

Using feint on cd is a ton of energy though isn't it

It's probably still good even if it's only a proc every 10s though

[mighty pivot]

but having another energy sink on top of GS doesn't sound very fun

[torpid fiber]

Just build more haste

[mighty pivot]

the auto attack thing is 4,5 ppm or something

[fathom bramble]

4.5(hasted)

so we kind of expect a proc every 10 seconds from it already

give or take

[torpid fiber]

Ask your raid to move lust until the raidwide damage starts

[mighty pivot]

"rogue why did you stand in aoe" - "I needed UB procs"

just like warriors used to stand in aoe for rage

[proven ocean]

o k ok

[spark quarry]

does it work 100% of the times? cause i can't get any restealth on target dummies xD

[frail veldt]

have to press it twice

but yeah works like 99% of the time for me

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble btw play elus on fractilus

no point playing cheat

outlaw elus is so op

[fathom bramble]

yeah I was thinking the same thing

[vivid vessel]

i have feint + evasion on every hard damage event in the fight so you just take 0 damage

[fathom bramble]

nice

[vivid vessel]

i love outlaw

most of our deaths and pulls count

are just cause we arent running 15 outlaws as dps

if we were the boss would be dead in 2 pulls

[fathom bramble]

20% damage reduction from vers, 20% from feint, 20% from evasion

[craggy barn]

ok wtf do i take now

[fathom bramble]

simply cannot die

[craggy barn]

we got no loot in raid

[vivid vessel]

yep

[vivid vessel]

impossible to die

banger spec

[craggy barn]

wtf is the play man

[vivid vessel]

hm

idk

you have sigil?

[worthy elm]

woulds we just hit enrage cause our dps sucks?

[craggy barn]

veteran

[vivid vessel]

is trhat hc vault or nm

[craggy barn]

hc

[vivid vessel]

nah

we do enough st

[craggy barn]

sigil is not super rare so idk if i even take that

[vivid vessel]

and what about that neck

[craggy barn]

just giga unluck this week

the raid?

[vivid vessel]

cause its insane neckl aswell

ye the raid one

[craggy barn]

lots of peopel want it in raid so i was considering it

[vivid vessel]

well

lots of people

its you and mages i think

[worthy elm]

i got the myth raid one this week.. i dont think many people wanted

[craggy barn]

ye

mages + my ele shaman guy is saying he prob wants it too later

[vivid vessel]

i wouldnt take cabochon cause cabochon mythic is prolly not even better than this neck hc

[craggy barn]

yea i have the hc one

we might kil dimmy tomorrow

and then step into mythic

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble what is your gear looking like btw

[craggy barn]

my gear is

def sigil vs raid neck

[vivid vessel]

i think legit no one want that trinket so idk

[vernal fjord]

was just hitting a dummy went afk came back and seen i still had adr whilst autoing the dummy doing nothing for a few mins, just bugged to the point where it thought i had perma uhuh

[vivid vessel]

the neck is kinda bis till you get a mythic one

i guess the trinket aswell

who knows

[vivid vessel]

ah you crafted a ring aswell

[untold current]

Wouldn't neck depend on current haste basically?

[vivid vessel]

i did too

[craggy barn]

one of my dhs decided to snag it from me last week

[craggy barn]

saying it was their bis

[visual trout]

!gear

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406175771495759952/outlaw.webp

[craggy barn]

i doubt but i said fuck it

[vivid vessel]

does that trinket sims hgiher than other hc ones

[craggy barn]

since i had a vet

[vivid vessel]

i guess it does right

[worthy elm]

i crafted wrists idk if it was the right call

[vivid vessel]

i mean

we dont really

have many slots

we can craft

this tier

its a bit weird

like back + boots are locked in

all the tier slots

[untold current]

Like 5+weapons pretty much

[vivid vessel]

so idk

[untold current]

I guess you could do belt aswell so 6+Weapons

[vivid vessel]

crafting a tier slot earlyu on is very troll imo

like massive int

the belt is insane good value still especially since it has a socket

so idk

[untold current]

yea

[vivid vessel]

you are kinda left with crafting weapons

or wrist

or jewels

[untold current]

I went Weapon+Ring and probably wrist next.

Just kinda makes seens i feel

Especially since i am now sitting on a myth neck

[craggy barn]

ye i sent double weapon crafts since no myth wep

[vivid vessel]

ye

[craggy barn]

and i need a mh for sub/sin

[vivid vessel]

i hesitated sending another weapon craft

even tho i have 2 mtyhic weapons

[craggy barn]

i sent outlaw wep last week lol

[vivid vessel]

cause if i dont get antoher dagger

i "wasted" 60 crests

[craggy barn]

im farming hc parses man

[vivid vessel]

uping an outlaw weapon

that cant be used for sub

but we decided to gamble on the dagger drp

[tight kernel]

which boss

[vivid vessel]

surely between taza + vault + reclears

[tight kernel]

loom?

[vivid vessel]

i get another dagger

loom

[craggy barn]

surely

[tight kernel]

we got double drop and got both

kinda giga might prog sub now

[untold current]

Is crafted offhand that good? I am still using nightfall mace and hero crit+vers dagger in ST

[tight kernel]

if youre not going to get myth wep from raid

prob

[craggy barn]

no

[vivid vessel]

i mean

its alright

its not the best crafted slot tho

but its not that behind

[untold current]

fair

[shell fossil]

pirate

[untold current]

I ain't no fan of the other two specs so would mainly be for Outlaw anyway

[vivid vessel]

like maybe you miss out on .2/.3 crafting an off hand

instead of something else

so

its def not a bad investment

i think

[tight kernel]

awang doing 16 hoa

[untold current]

yarr

[vivid vessel]

you mean awangawangawang

[tight kernel]

ye mb

Awangawangaw

[vivid vessel]

should i name my next rogue alt

zaczaczaczac

[dawn talon]

yea we gotta all start fanboying awang

[vague cape]

it's aight though, mog is fire

[tight kernel]

Watching nessa no mouse is wild

[untold current]

Isn't mog the real win in this game? Gear is temporary but mogs are forever, or something like that.

[tight kernel]

Awangawangaw on 3rd boss. Does he time

[vivid vessel]

nah

miniboss is like

1min30?

boss is like

3min

[vague cape]

mogspec > mainspec has always been the rule

[untold current]

fs

[tight kernel]

wild comp

[alpine stag]

What's the best way to do miniboss?

[tight kernel]

hit him

[untold current]

Taking the HP to 0% is ideal

[alpine stag]

Bet you press buttons

[vivid vessel]

hit it till he dies

[untold current]

Nah

I let my team hit buttons while i judge and gamble in a corner

[tight kernel]

ye just a few

[craggy barn]

ok looks like i take sigil of cosmic hunt

neck doesnt do much for me rn since i dont have any other good sources of haste barring flask

[vivid vessel]

!

[worthy elm]

yea my haste is odd atm, have a haste enchant on a ring

[craggy barn]

a lot of my haste is in hc cachon

cabochon*

and i dont have sac

[worthy elm]

i had that and got the mythic chrysalis

[craggy barn]

double checking with haste flask

kinda sad no sub or sin item from vault

ok with haste flask

but idk the exact haste value id be at

[radiant orbit]

question, blade flurry damage is in a circle around me while im doing my normal rotation?

[gaunt phoenix]

yES

[radiant orbit]

so i want to be standing in the center of a pack not on the outside

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[radiant orbit]

and killing spree as well

cuz i feel like my aoe damage just isnt up to par, but my single target rotation is close to sim

[cedar kernel]

i am thinking about how do we time this flood

but its afternoon things

i think time is tie

maybe tank need to do some adjustment

[vague cape]

tell me thats a wa or addon

and not that the cn client is infinitely better

[cedar kernel]

its a wa

[tight kernel]

Does Dimmy die tonight

prob not

right?

[cold tide]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[tepid skiff]

i already told u 12 hrs ago man

its on record

[lime lake]

[stiff vector]

I swear I cant loot anything from priory to save my life

[sudden fulcrum]

just open the box brah

[craggy barn]

oo i can take vers haste neck from vault with sac

[keen belfry]

log in

stop adulting

[frail veldt]

I can't get a trinket for shit lol

Done hoa and flood so many times

[hybrid crown]

Just saw a warp claw get traded to a bear tank

The DPS had opened trade to give it to me the tank says wait I'll roll too

They roll a 100

😦

[unkempt smelt]

i got my trink so fast this season, never had such luck

[ember bolt]

am i pressing coup de gras every time its available

[unkempt smelt]

not in stealth

u wanna use it before vanish if u can

[ember bolt]

theres so many buffs on my screen idk what is priority

[next thunder]

I've just been coasting it using helkili addon

But like... in raid ST damage I'm pulling sub 2.8M despite being 695 ~

[hidden kayak]

i dont clip killing spree do i? 😮

[glass mortar]

u can

its neutral to clip it when u cap cp

[hidden kayak]

thats what i figured

im like sitting there at full combo pointrs and im panicking

cause its still going

[pure folio]

Because hekili doesnt do the rotation correctly

[unkempt cypress]

It should copy apl no? Or isn't it up to date

[grim spear]

the 4 legs dungeons 80 runs at least and 0 legs dropped

holy

[grim spear]

Hekili’s rotation isn’t really the issue

the issue is you can’t just follow it. If you have to look and think about what to press next, you’ll definitely fail to keep up with the pace outlaw requires

[unkempt cypress]

That makes more sense bc it would be easy af to copy the apl

[grim spear]

you need to understand the rotation and turn it into instinct, muscle memory.

[unkempt cypress]

Yah just curious

[grim spear]

outlaw is hard mainly because it’s fast.

[next thunder]

Is the rotation guide on WoWhead good enough? Would appreciate if anyone has a good rotation guide uwu

[unkempt cypress]

But hekili not doing the rotation right and not being able to follow it are two diff things still. Said nothing about using it, just that all the work is done alr u just have to copy it

[next thunder]

Yeah following hekili mindlessly, there are like full 3-6 seconds of not being able to do anything except wait for sinister strike

[tender wedge]

thats definitely you doing something wrong

hekili uses the sim APL and that doesn't happen in sims

but could happen if you made an error in following it

[next thunder]

Yeah that makes sense - the downtime happens like once every 2 minutes on average using helkeli and wowhead meta talents

[tender wedge]

if you're energy starved like that, you've likely lost adrenaline rush, which means you haven't farmed enough cooldown reduction on it

but outlaw is very cyclical like that - you lose ADR, can't regen energy, can't use enough builders, can't spend enough, can't farm CDR, lose ADR etc

[hidden kayak]

hekili with outlaw just cant happen

[next thunder]

Outlaw has to be the least finger joint friendly spec - feels like i'm masshing a high bpm rhythm game

[hidden kayak]

YES

[timber maple]

looking to play rouge to push keys, how hard is it to acctualy play at a higher tier

coming in with 0 knowledge ^

[next thunder]

Depends on comp - but know that we don't bring a lot of utility besides a lot of interrupts and cloak

[timber maple]

hmm

[next thunder]

I think assass is the way to go rn if you wanna push - outlaw is nuking mob damage but takes effort for ST in my exeprience

[delicate saffron]

is coupe pressed 2 times in a row with 4p ?

shouldnt i add a few pistol shots before the second one?

sim seems to just shove the second one without any cp

[gaunt phoenix]

you send it at low cps if you would otherwise have to press ss

[delicate saffron]

if you have pistol shot with stacks you dont, right?

[gaunt phoenix]

if you meet the condition to build cps with pistol shot then you build cps with pistol shot

but not SS as that might waste unseen blade twice

[delicate saffron]

yeah

fixing this did help my damage come close to sims, but still kind far

UGH

-_-

[sudden quail]

With current Verse levels has anyone played around with dropping Theif's Versatility to run Loaded Dice and Sleight of Hand?

[torpid fiber]

someday i'll get a tier piece from raid

[torpid fiber]

doesn't really make sense to

no point in increasing chance of rolling 2 if you can always roll 2 every roll

[delicate saffron]

wait doesnt it 20% increase all chances?

[river maple]

is it worth to keep going vers despite diminishing return or pivot into some crit ?

[torpid fiber]

[next thunder]

I haven't done simming since like legion - is it still the same process? (Get simcraft and feed your character data into it on patchwerk fight)

[torpid fiber]

It's way easier now

[next thunder]

Wut tools are they using now?

[rustic scaffold]

!loot

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406175771495759952/outlaw.webp

[torpid fiber]

Get the simc addon, do /simc to get data, use https://www.raidbots.com/

[delicate saffron]

how am i doing 1 mill on dummy im going crazy

[torpid fiber]

Aren't some dummies bugged or smth

[delicate saffron]

OH?

hopium

[torpid fiber]

Idk I've just heard it

[delicate saffron]

ill change dummy then

[torpid fiber]

You might also just be ass

[next thunder]

ass rogues are people too

[delicate saffron]

yea but like how ass, to be 50% below the sim

[torpid fiber]

Happens

[delicate saffron]

its happening way too frequently T_T

[chilly atlas]

are you simming with full buffs and stuff?

and playing without all those buffs?

[gaunt phoenix]

Dummies are hardly ever bugged in a significant way for outlaw

the most common is just blade flurry not calculating correctly

[delicate saffron]

okay it seems like the dummy is actually bugged

i just went 1mill up

will test a few more times, might just be crazy

[unique fulcrum]

which flask are u guys using

[torpid fiber]

Were you using a pvp dummy

[gaunt phoenix]

are you sure it wasnt a pvp dummy

[delicate saffron]

yes i made sure i dont have any sim buffs

[delicate saffron]

ughh

umm

[torpid fiber]

pvp dummies make outlaw shit

We're like super nerfed in pvp iirc

[delicate saffron]

seems like i was

hehe

[gaunt phoenix]

Vers or haste

if you need haste flask to hit 19%

tho some people with like 6000 crit 28000 vers should perhaps be using crit flask

[frail veldt]

can someone tell me how DH throw glaive pulled the boss here lol

you can see the chat message when the pull is detected

[delicate saffron]

yup hitting my sim number now, thanks guys.

never actually read the dummy names

[gaunt phoenix]

Raidbots took off in legion so this is probably what they did back then too

[fathom bramble]

first hit isn't always accurate and can report an incorrect spell especiall when you are already in combat with something else

it's just checking the first damage event it can find after combat with the boss started

[frail veldt]

well then wtf pulled

it was like 40 yards away

lol

[fathom bramble]

good question

without a full log it might be impossible to find out

[frail veldt]

ooooooooo

sec I got that

[quaint mauve]

wait mewo on priest :0

[frail veldt]

ye I was a shadow priest main before outlaw in SL

[quaint mauve]

wowwwww

i played disc b4

i didn’t like healing that much

[frail veldt]

yeah I played all 3 specs of priest tbh

[quaint mauve]

i felt kinda useless as a healer

[frail veldt]

I kinda enjoy it

[cinder relic]

@fathom bramble what are u looking for in the rework

Hard mode not 2 stacks of AR

[quaint mauve]

it’s fun but i hated pugging

i got the most hate as a healer

[fathom bramble]

3 stacks of AR

[frail veldt]

1000IQ

https://tenor.com/view/brain-brain-meme-big-brain-big-brain-meme-big-brain-time-gif-2441110471562975014

[wintry solar]

People keep telling me that CDs are for oh shit moments but when health is below 100% it feels like an oh shit moment lol

[fathom bramble]

Ambush becomes a viable generator for all builds so you never have a crippilingly dry vanish

alternatively ambush is removed from outlaw and all bonuses are changed into "While X sinister strike does Y"

[quaint mauve]

no people don’t use defensives even in higher keys

[frail veldt]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ydYCbaDHVktJF9Bn?fight=4&type=summary

[quaint mauve]

and blame you

[frail veldt]

help

[fathom bramble]

While stealthed Sinister strike generates 1 additonal combo point etc

[frail veldt]

how do I find the first hit on the boss

using the log

[ripe ibex]

enemy damage taken and then look at events

[wintry solar]

Yeah I'm not even gonna bother in keys. I healed in arenas with my friends and oof

[torpid fiber]

i did local sims when i started in legion 😔

[frail veldt]

wheres "enemy damage taken" in wclogs

[fathom bramble]

immolation aura ?

did someone just body pull or what

[ripe ibex]

top left

can pick what mob

[frail veldt]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ydYCbaDHVktJF9Bn?fight=4&type=damage-taken&hostility=1&pull=11&source=341.1&view=timeline

but also still how the hell did immo aura hit the boss?

[delicate saffron]

if i get used to outlaws dopamine rush from high apm, how would i ever switch to something else

[ripe ibex]

that boss is extremely bugged with dh it seems

or just in general

[frail veldt]

it says the fight starts at 17:24

[ripe ibex]

i’ve seen it just randomly get firebrand spread to it out of nowhere as well

[frail veldt]

but the first damag einstance isnt until 17:28

so it pulls iwthout taking damage

well these were havoc dhs

no tanks

so yeah the boss pulled without taking damage

neato lol

[fathom bramble]

it looks to me like the boss was body pulled or pulled for literally no reason

[frail veldt]

cant wait for that to brick a key later on in the season

but like we were so far haha

[fathom bramble]

idk what/who could have even bodied though like

idk

[frail veldt]

yeah this is a fat bug

[wintry solar]

Idk if it's apm will ever be low enough to the point it's not fun

[delicate saffron]

destro lock?

[wintry solar]

Outlaw

[delicate saffron]

no i meant ill get addicted to this and cant change specs later

[wintry solar]

Oh I see

Yeah that's an issue for sure

Happens all the time

[delicate saffron]

cuz i dont think any spec comes close to outlaw

maybe enha sham

[wintry solar]

No they don't

Only specs I find fun are the ones I played for years

[fathom bramble]

Real answers
Significant ambush outlaw reworks to make stealth windows less awful for kir which could include just buffing all generators during stealth. Audacity and ho swap places in the tree?
Mastery rework(preferably my idea)
AR reverted to the old version that had no haste scaling, Haste scaling reimplemented in a less evil way
TWW season 2 tierset 4pc buffed and made into an apex talent.
Blade rush
AR has half the cd and half the duration of current AR.

[wintry solar]

Outlaw, Unholy, Blood, Survival, Fury, Prot in no order

[frail veldt]

I couldnt stand unholy

[fathom bramble]

kind of short list but any or all of those would be nice to see

[frail veldt]

festering wounds tracking is so shit

and just mechanically it felt awkward

also I hate playing around Death and Decay

[wintry solar]

DnD is relatively gone tbh

Or you don't really notice it

[frail veldt]

what was your mastery rework idea

[wintry solar]

New mastery cook

Go Lok

[fathom bramble]

Your single target melee attacks have a 30% chance to strike again with your off-hand for x% of the original damage dealt. All other ability damage is increased by y%.

[delicate saffron]

interesting, only fury is maybe a bit close in apm

[wintry solar]

Prot warr*

[frail veldt]

would this work with bte?

or not

cuz bte isnt a melee attack

[delicate saffron]

"AR has half the cd and half the duration of current AR"

you want this cuz of loaded dice ?

[frail veldt]

or is that intentional

[fathom bramble]

that would be intentional

[frail veldt]

makes sense

[fathom bramble]

increasing all other ability damage is meant to cover that

[frail veldt]

dont want it to be too op

[ripe ibex]

more flexibility

[frail veldt]

I like a spec where all 4 stats are reasonably good

[fathom bramble]

same flavor as old mastery without all the problems that make it consistently terrible

[fathom bramble]

reducing the total duration of AR would make it easier to hold or move it for certain mechanics

Loaded dice and improved AR are kind of side benefits

[wintry solar]

If we get a rework and our mastery doesn't get looked at in some capacity I'm gonna be a little disappointed but not surprised

[ripe ibex]

i think dfs3 tier set is far more interesting s2 tier set is extremely boring imo

[delicate saffron]

are there any talks about our rework or is it just your guys fantasy

[keen belfry]

when is systems interview tomorrow

[lime lake]

https://tenor.com/view/queen-bohemian-rhapsody-sora-ai-dystopia-gif-17137448199778082672

[keen belfry]

for wow devs

[fathom bramble]

we have no reason to believe that outlaw will get a rework

[wintry solar]

11am cest

[fathom bramble]

but hopefully our apex talents address some of the issues that exist

[keen belfry]

cest

[ripe ibex]

revert killing spree

that’s all i want

[fathom bramble]

?

[lime lake]

i mean they've specifically used outlaw as an example of a spec they're looking at in regards to needing weak auras to play twice now

[fathom bramble]

I can't even imagine trying to press KS on some of these fights so far

[lime lake]

its definitely getting changes if not a full rework

[keen belfry]

i think their constant mention about outlaw in regards to weakauras is a small little crumble, but im not expecting a full rework

im expecting we get more changes than the median in midnight

[wintry solar]

I'm expecting df level revamp

Maybe a bit more

[fathom bramble]

I didn't really like df s3 tier compared to other ways we have had to improve buff uptimes

[cinder relic]

i fw these

[fathom bramble]

maybe they fix all container bugs and call it a day

[keen belfry]

how so?

i disagree as your pull to pull variance felt very very ass last season

[ripe ibex]

i think it’s far more interesting than just high chance to roll multiple buffs

[next thunder]

On average, how much less would you do IRL from a single target sim? IE if raidbots says i should be doing 3.75M on ST, then IRL if I play optimally how much should I be doing?

[keen belfry]

i really liked constant 3 buff uptime in DF S3

[cinder relic]

I think the devs by name mentioning the spec as an issue related to "the games bad UI/the spec being too complicated" is a fair reason to believe it'll get some largescale changes

But maybe thats cope

[fathom bramble]

maybe

it could just be them talking about ui improvements being good

[wintry solar]

Twice

[cinder relic]

Yeah mentioned once would be nothing

[fathom bramble]

they have already made massive jumps that remove the need for most of our WAs

[cinder relic]

twice now has me suspect

[keen belfry]

I seriously think if they jsut increased rtb bny +1 it would solve a lot, 2,3,6 would be awesome reroll potentials

[wintry solar]

First time I felt was happenstance

[fathom bramble]

I didn't like the extra punishment for losing buffs or the ramp time it offered

[ripe ibex]

i mean when did that ever happen

[fathom bramble]

if we are going to have perma 3 buff or something it should be via a different method imo

[ripe ibex]

the window for not letting rtb drop is absolutely massive

[next thunder]

make blade flurry a toggle again :3

[fathom bramble]

I honestly don't have the energy to defend that position rn

I just didn't like it

[ripe ibex]

i feel that

[cinder relic]

I'm telling u, KiR reworked to "+1 buffs" or "rtb no longer refreshes but instead stacks" would be elite

Fuck KiR

[fathom bramble]

if we got something like it I would prefer that it was just +1 random buff at all times or something

[keen belfry]

makes sense, i just found relying a lot on your 17% chance to 5 buff was quite cringe. loaded dice is a good talent because the better players get more ars = more loaded dices, idk

i found last season to be a crutch

the tierset

[wintry solar]

Both rtb tier bonuses have been killer. Hope our next one in midnight keeps the momentum up.

[ripe ibex]

yeah also just made you feel more involved in it

[keen belfry]

im tired of borrowed power in terms of making rtb feel modern

[fathom bramble]

spamming RTB on cd with this would go crazy for supercharge

[magic shuttle]

This season tier set ain't that bad tbh, just ain't as good as the s2 one

[tender wedge]

that sounds kind fun tbh

[cinder relic]

Literally

[ripe ibex]

rtb until 5 was not exactly riveting gameplay

[cinder relic]

Hater

[fathom bramble]

yeah no matter which method of improvement you prefer we definitely could use a permanent RTB improvement

[ripe ibex]

no i mean last tier

[fathom bramble]

and no more RTB on tiersets

[keen belfry]

ye

[wintry solar]

4 back to back 5 buff rolls is peak outlaw and not a SOUL can tell me otherwise

[ripe ibex]

yeah 100%

[keen belfry]

we are already rose tinted glasses last season tier

[ripe ibex]

rtb is so broken without a tier

disgusting spell

[cinder relic]

RTB tier sets are kind of a problem cuz no matter how good they are to play with, losing them feels infinite worse than most tier sets lol

[keen belfry]

ye

[wintry solar]

Yeah

[keen belfry]

i just dont want bandaid fixes for rtb anymore

[cinder relic]

Now, ofc I didn't play Outlaw last tier much, but that doesn't bother me much losing ones in the past

but I get the feelin

[fathom bramble]

what if they just buffed sleight to 60%

[keen belfry]

ive only "played" outlaw with RTB tier and i can confidently say, outlaw needs rtb tier

which means

[fathom bramble]

and added DF s3 where Blade rush is rn

[keen belfry]

outlaw needs rtb rework

[wintry solar]

Though playing both pve and pvp, this tier fucked outlaw up on pvp because they nerfed Restless Blades by 20%

[fathom bramble]

pvp is straight doomed

you just lose ar and do nothing

[keen belfry]

idk if its just what outlaw is, but i dont like % stuff on rtb. i like guaranteed

[ripe ibex]

agreed

[magic shuttle]

One thing I hope they do this season at least is give HO a buff to compete with kir, feels like this expansion they've been a bit allergic to buffing HO

[wintry solar]

I have to play double dps in 2s and win in opener or we lose

[surreal flower]

Bring outlaw back to shadowlands

[wintry solar]

No pressure with a healer

[cinder relic]

I will forever love the variance that RTB provides

[keen belfry]

yeah thats probs just differing likes

i dislike it

[proven ocean]

Guys im the main charecter and brought the whole rework idea and u guys are still talking about my idea what the helly

[keen belfry]

im not right or wrong

[proven ocean]

Good morning awang

Thoughts??

Awang

??

[keen belfry]

sup chicken soup

[proven ocean]

Agree or

[fathom bramble]

I really liked the value from spamming on supercharge with eventually hitting a 5 and stopping rolling

[keen belfry]

whats ur idea zeross

[proven ocean]

Sup gnawa

Idk

[ripe ibex]

oh yeah btw how was your busy adult day awang

[proven ocean]

Wait

Jason is here too

[keen belfry]

i finsihed all work nbd

[proven ocean]

What the helly

[ripe ibex]

gm soup guy

[proven ocean]

Sup cat dog pfp guy

[ripe ibex]

r u like the cap from mario

[proven ocean]

Ye no cappy

[keen belfry]

liquid is so close

[ripe ibex]

ah

[proven ocean]

Bfa rtb was cool but i feel like its old school now

Needs to not be omega rng

[fathom bramble]

Crackshot
Entering stealth refreshes the cooldown of Between the Eyes.
Melee skills and auto attacks have a 20 yard range while stealthed.
Pistol shot and between the eyes deal 50% more damage when used from stealth.

[surreal flower]

AR back to 55-60% and damage back in builders

[ripe ibex]

hahah

[proven ocean]

While stealth melee range sounds like pure pain ngl

[keen belfry]

crackshot as a downtime fix would be cool

[proven ocean]

Ur only making out of crackshot+no ar more painful

I think that kind of gameplay is the worst of outlaw imo

The heavy downtime

[proven ocean]

That fixes outlaw being omega difficult by alot

[ripe ibex]

kinda also loses its charm

[proven ocean]

Because it’ll be easy to do dmg on outlaw if they do that

[proven ocean]

No charm the spec is in shambles

[fathom bramble]

even when outlaw AR uptime was low we were among the hardest melees

I'm sure it would be fine

[proven ocean]

No one can play it unless ur an outlaw monkey

No cappy

[ripe ibex]

even the monkeys are starving atp

[proven ocean]

Popo+awang+jason

Wouldnt call it good morning

Would call it cookedmorning

[ripe ibex]

oh

[wintry solar]

High adr uptime doesn't necessarily equal fun

[ripe ibex]

do u mena that 😢

[wintry solar]

2:23am

[proven ocean]

2:20 am what the helly

U living in the past??

[wintry solar]

I am

[ripe ibex]

mountain timer

[proven ocean]

Wait wait so bitcoin prices went down after 3 hrs then after 10 hrs they will be 5000x price

Gogo or

[fathom bramble]

Ghostly strikes Strike an enemy, dealing x physical damage and causing the target to take 15% increased damage from you for 12 seconds. You can attack an enemy afflicted with Ghostly strikes from any range.

[proven ocean]

?!

[ripe ibex]

hahaha bro

[wintry solar]

There's a word I'm thinking of

[ripe ibex]

idk about these added ranged things

[proven ocean]

Cooked out the wazoo

No cappy

[wintry solar]

Situationally increased melee range is never a good idea

[fathom bramble]

Hidden opportunity: Effects that grant a chance for sinister strike to strike an additona time also apply to ambush at 80% of their value. Ambush also has a 20 yard range

[ripe ibex]

holy

[wintry solar]

That's just Run Through

[fathom bramble]

Acrobatic strikes Your abilites gain 3 yards of additional range.

[ripe ibex]

rlly dude

[wintry solar]

There we go

[wintry solar]

What a nice original idea

[ripe ibex]

acro was just a crutch for ranged players wanting to play melee anyway

[fathom bramble]

Hit and run: While sprint is active your attacks gain 5 yards of additional range.

[wintry solar]

I almost fell for it

[wintry solar]

Hit and Run sounds familiar

Is that already a talent?

[ripe ibex]

+15% speed

[fathom bramble]

Double threat: Sinister strike now always strikes twice, but generates 1 fewer combo points on the 2nd hit. and has a 20 yard range

[wintry solar]

Ah yes

[ripe ibex]

hahaha

[wintry solar]

I forget the names of locked in talents

[ripe ibex]

i like the edit

i was confused for a second

[fathom bramble]

why?

[wintry solar]

It's annoying

[fathom bramble]

if we can choose when it happens or if it is always during our most vulnerable window(Vanish) then it should work fine

[wintry solar]

One second you have it an the next it's gone

Spamming SS and all of a sudden you're 2 yards out of range

[fathom bramble]

guess I could see that

[wintry solar]

Ah crap Lok

[fathom bramble]

I still think the utility would outweigh any misplay from it though

especially when we are perma in perma uptime mode

[wintry solar]

If they do revamp outlaw, there's a chance CS is gone and I don't know if they can make a justifiable gameplay talent

[fathom bramble]

What if they replace crackshot with something like "While stealthed and for x seconds after leaving stealth your finishers have a 5% chance per combo point spent to grant 5 combo points."

[wintry solar]

Idk I'm just saying

Me personally I'm fine with whatever

But I'm not exactly the biggest CS glazer

[fathom bramble]

but yeah there is a very real chance to we lose some of our stealth stuff

[wintry solar]

Even though I do enjoy it

[fathom bramble]

we have been rotating through new stealth things every other expac

[wintry solar]

Honestly?

I don't think we need take em

[fathom bramble]

What if this entire row was generator improvements on par with Fan

[feral glen]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into :ks: KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• :ks: KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[wintry solar]

Not bad

[fathom bramble]

Your Combo point generating abilities generate 1 additional combo point while stealthed and for 26 sec after breaking stealth.

When your finishers consume 5 or more combo points there is an x% chance that your next Sinister strike is guaranteed to strike 2 additional times.

[ripe ibex]

i like that one

[rotund zodiac]

I feel like more players play outlaw this season

[sullen narwhal]

Completely random thought, what if a portion of haste contributed to opportunity proc rate.

Opportunity at 35% is really bad anyway

[dusty estuary]

Hello, is it still worth playing the Nightfall Curseblade vs pulls?

[willow portal]

do you guys dps pot in m+?

[sullen narwhal]

I haven't used a pot since legion when they were super cheap

[delicate saffron]

theres a pin for it

you should get the new one

[wintry solar]

https://tenor.com/view/based-meme-hello-based-department-based-based-department-gif-8935998474362718486

[livid pewter]

41 runs on HOA still no hands for me 🙁

[dusty estuary]

thanks

[delicate saffron]

is it possible to stack the pre key fuckery a few times ?

[willow portal]

bro are you me?

look at this shit

[balmy topaz]

Got mine on first run

[cinder relic]

Would this literally not just be the AR haste issue?

IG itd make lust better?

[balmy topaz]

Ye it doesn't solve anything

[rotund zodiac]

Revert AR to DF patch pls

Remove haste requirement

[sullen narwhal]

The main issue with ar change was that they tried to solve haste scaling by taking away something and giving it back.

That's why it felt much worse than it otherwise would have

[young prism]

I see that most people are not using antenna in m+. Is it because they don't have it or they don't prefer to use it m+?

[cinder relic]

I think the main issue is "You need x% haste to make the spec work"

[rotund zodiac]

I miss stacking only crit/vers

[cinder relic]

If haste added to opp proc rate, you would "need" x% haste to have a mathematically good amount of Opp procs

[sullen narwhal]

Sounds good to me, opportuity at 35% is really bad anyway

[cinder relic]

[sullen narwhal]

They could just up the base % though

[fathom bramble]

I don't think it would have as harsh of an inflection point as the AR implementation though

but tying resources to stats will always have problems

[sullen narwhal]

Dude, more than half the specs in the game do that

[fathom bramble]

like the big problem with AR is that you go from haste top stat to haste bottom stat instantly at 19%

[sullen narwhal]

More haste, more resources, in some cases more crit also more resources depending on the spec

[cinder relic]

I'd rather be in the half that doesn't

[fathom bramble]

yeah and they all deal with the problems this brings about

[sullen narwhal]

I literally never saw anyone complain about them

Aside outlaw

[fathom bramble]

I would rather have an appropriate amount of resources for the spec to function without any stats at all

I remember people complaining about the DH crit fury generation

but they have also made changes to it since then

[sullen narwhal]

It still does

[fathom bramble]

haste is also a different story since for most specs haste gives more resources and lets you spend them faster in equal measure

[sullen narwhal]

Just that it's not fully dependent on crit

[fathom bramble]

so overall it's just making you go faster but maintain the same ratio of spells

[frank finch]

!ambush

[ornate heath]

It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[fathom bramble]

if blizz really wants us to have haste as an okay stat it should just give something less tied to resources and something less evil than a stat cap

like if it was solely SS chance I feel that would be unbalanceable

but being a little sip of SS chance and some other stuff is reasonable

[subtle field]

in a phys comp will outlaw do more dmg then assa?

[fathom bramble]

no

[subtle field]

ok figured as much

[sullen narwhal]

No way, sin rogue is currently one of the best m+ specs

[willow portal]

why do i sometimes get multiple stacks of unseen blade?

ah, its tier chance ?

[rotund zodiac]

KS gives you 2 stacks

[radiant vessel]

do you want to wait to use stone idol outside of subterfuge?

[jade crag]

I personally would tbh

just before popping vanish again

[young prism]

or KS

[jade crag]

that too

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[wintry solar]

!container

Wasn't that a command?

[red zinc]

biggest news yet

game might be back

[grave carbon]

so talent trees are just decoration at this point huh

[tender wedge]

Is this the PoE announcement

[balmy topaz]

What in the fuck fuck

These ones just have their own tree

[frank finch]

i think those r the apex talents

[balmy topaz]

Guess we are getting nothing

as he's been working on the new spec

new rework in 13.0

[fluid iron]

realz has not worked on the new dh spec

he said it himself

[balmy topaz]

In here?

[wintry solar]

Imp death coil icon

[fluid iron]

felhammer iirc

[wintry solar]

Lord have mercy

[balmy topaz]

ahh

[wintry solar]

Unholy is COOKED

[balmy topaz]

so maybe

we get some stuff

[red zinc]

That preservation one is sick though

If we get something similar to that

[red zinc]

We are gaming

[wintry solar]

Not even alpha so it's more than likely a placeholder

[grave carbon]

new icon for killing spree

[frank finch]

[wintry solar]

See?

Not even alpha

Pre-alpha

[frank finch]

i cant wait to play ho kir

[wintry solar]

What if they cull them?

What if they cull all our capstones??

[frank finch]

[wintry solar]

For new ones

[frank finch]

prolly will

[wintry solar]

I'd welcome a change that big honestly

Imagine we get all those changes but KS stays exactly the same

[frank finch]

midnight in march

[wintry solar]

Damn

That's so soon after Resident Evil 9

[manic wave]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[red zinc]

Even earlier probably

[wintry solar]

I just need a week after Feb 27th

[red zinc]

Feb 29th 🙏

[wintry solar]

March 5th 🙏

[red zinc]

me when legion remix but no infinite haste

[wintry solar]

Mastery is infinite tho :D

God what a buzzkill that was

[red zinc]

i think theyll change it

but maybe its intended idk

i dont mind it that much personally since it can somewhat ruin playing a spec, and it seems like they still want people to do mythic raids with somewhat of a challenge

[azure arrow]

Is outlaw kind of bugged on dummies?

[brisk radish]

guys i wanted to switch from sin to outlaw for more single target damage and survivability does outlaw even have more single target damage in keys than sin or no?

oh naaaaaw

[azure arrow]

Guys Im new since DF with outlaw practicing at dummies.. Is it normal that after Between eyes I dont get full combo points back every time I use it with subterfuge buff?

[covert kestrel]

It's not guaranteed it's a % chance depending on how many cp you cast bte with

[vivid vessel]

@red zinc

That's not even bad

I'm ngl

[vivid vessel]

Sin and outlaw st in keys is quite similar

Except sin can bring funnel into bosses for more st

If you want actual more st you can go sub

[jolly geyser]

what you get from taza hard mode? had to go start driving drunk people home

[vivid vessel]

A mythic piece

Oh what did I get

An useless ring

[jolly geyser]

[cedar kernel]

yea i just want to say that

thats too badbadbabdabdabbadbadbadb

to bed

[wintry solar]

Hi bac

What time is it there?

[cedar kernel]

hi popo

its 7pm

[wintry solar]

That's crazyyyy

It's 6am here

[cedar kernel]

gm

[hasty warren]

1pm here

[cedar kernel]

[wintry solar]

Goodevening!

[cedar kernel]

could u send me a mustang as a gift

[wintry solar]

I got a charger

[wintry solar]

Where you from?

[hasty warren]

baguette

[wintry solar]

Oh yeah we talked about that

[hasty warren]

ye

pantaloons

[wintry solar]

I'm a horrible person. Sorry.

[hasty warren]

It's ok popo

[wintry solar]

I love pantaloons! An amazing word.

In my private server, that word is part of an inside joke.

[hasty warren]

kek

idk if it's a good idea to play wow now, i'm in vacations with friends and the barely have connections (plus we had a party yesterday/this morning)

[wintry solar]

You should enjoy your vacation

[willow portal]

lets go

still losing in overall sadly

[hasty warren]

well it's last day and half ppl ar still sleeping

[lucid sandal]

Has any of you farmed the arathi event

For the chance at 691 weapon

[pliant wave]

Is this bug still working, or is it fixed?

[tight kernel]

So keeping hero talents and adding apex talents?

[wintry solar]

Yeah

Talent

We get one Apex talent

I'm absolutely going to have fun putting the 4 points in places

[red zinc]

idk if you saw the one for preservationn

we will not have a choice lmao

all those points are going into the apex

[visual ermine]

this whole time

I have been trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong

[wintry solar]

Oh for sure

[visual ermine]

why my damage is so ass

[wintry solar]

But I mean for meme builds in solo delves

[red zinc]

although like

its 4 capstones

[visual ermine]

at 4:40am today, I discovered why

[red zinc]

it has to be strong as hell to make up for that

[willow portal]

ye

i expected cursed shit and it was delieverd

can you even solve that without support?

[wintry solar]

(Volume warning)

[visual ermine]

I don't think I can solve it WITH support

guess it's worth a shot lmao

[red zinc]

they arent fixing that for you

[visual ermine]

yeah

I guess it's like... slightly reassuring, that it's not just me being bad?

I was just hobbling myself, all week

...that's better right?

🥲

[willow portal]

i mean

you might not be bad at pressing damage buttons

but that work order button you should look at a rota guide again

[visual ermine]

you know the worst part

is that I made it for myself

[willow portal]

oh no

[visual ermine]

every step of this process was me

start to finish

[willow portal]

i thought why the crafter didnt tell you

[visual ermine]

the call was coming from inside the house

[grim spear]

It feels so bad having 0 st in m+

[cedar berry]

Claims another one

[hasty warren]

I wonder why we havn't timed it

[visual ermine]

honestly with the way timegated materials work, and how undergeared this rogue is otherwise

almost feels like I'd be better off making a new one from scratch

a new rogue, not a new weapon

[tight kernel]

Ion on echo stream kinda pog

[vivid vessel]

tf

thats crazy !

[tight kernel]

You think if I drop fat dono we can outlaw buff?

[willow portal]

surely

[lucid sandal]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[lucid sandal]

@vivid vessel Did you get the 691 cudgel? Also is there any chance you could share the weapon swap weakaura?

[vivid vessel]

i didnt

https://wago.io/elwWiwJax

[tight kernel]

You still wep swapping Zac?

[vivid vessel]

no cause i have a 723 off hand

[lucid sandal]

Appreciate it

[golden valley]

Would you take the trinket or the myth legs for the long term gearing ?

[desert tendon]

cant wait for them to delete dispatch and sinister strike

[lucid sandal]

678 worth swapping if I have 704 offhand?

[desert tendon]

only ps and bte

no more wa

[lucid sandal]

Pants > Catalyst

[golden valley]

i was thinking about the probability to get another Sacbrood vs another Myth Legs. I will get 4 set only next week with the 3rd charge anyways

[tight kernel]

Did you save your gilded for oh?

I sent of myth tier idk if it was the play but felt fine

[vivid vessel]

i got a dagger first week

used that

then second week they gave me an outlaw weap for dh boss and fract

upped that

[tight kernel]

Ah nice

I just got myth wep so I think I’m send my gilded on that

Loomy daggers tho so eh stats

Has some vers at least

[vivid vessel]

upping an off hand isnt that bad

[long barn]

If I have both crafted weapons, is swapping for cudgel on trash worth still?

I don’t have the fancy BIS one, just the one you can buy

678 or whatever

Both my weapons are 720

[vale warren]

#outlaw message

[elder phoenix]

https://i.imgur.com/y3OP2Gw.jpeg

is this accurate

is sub really that good in m+"?

[vivid vessel]

sub is quite good ye

[elder phoenix]

i mean

[vivid vessel]

assa is better tho

[elder phoenix]

all rogues are the same

So

[vivid vessel]

well

outlaw is kinda garbo compared to sub and assa

[elder phoenix]

not according to https://www.archon.gg/wow/tier-list/dps-rankings/mythic-plus/10/all-dungeons/this-week

[vivid vessel]

ye early weeklies data

very accurate

score aswell

like ?

look you can even have this thing ordered by dps

which imo is still terrible data

but ye

[desert tendon]

i mean

[red zinc]

"not according to archon"

[desert tendon]

this kind of data

[red zinc]

[desert tendon]

doesnt mean anything

right now

even i, as the biggest doomer in the history, i cant look at them

this is terrible data

[vivid vessel]

@elder phoenix we have data that is much more accurate from ptr aslo

rather than week 1 data

and we know roughly how good each spec is

assa is very clearly the best m+ spec

[elder phoenix]

Wheres this data

[desert tendon]

ptr data in wow is as shit as week 1 data imo

[vivid vessel]

might be the best spec in the game

[desert tendon]

but who i am

[vivid vessel]

no its not ?

you were full geared

doing 20s

dont yap

[desert tendon]

yea ok zac

[elder phoenix]

Where is this ptr data?

[desert tendon]

not like ptr was dogshit for 16 seasons

maybe last one was good!

who knows!

[vivid vessel]

people playing the game

looking at details etc

how do you think people figure out what specs are meta?

its not by looking at wcl

let me tell you taht

[desert tendon]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-tww-3-ptr/all/world/leaderboards-strict

here

have some ptr data

20 keys

big data

mage 100% presence in ptr

[elder phoenix]

if this is true then why isnt there no assa rogue on the race last boss

[timid idol]

ye

like fury warrior's niche

[vivid vessel]

?

m+ ?

[timid idol]

is being the worst spec in the game for 3 seasons

baller

[vivid vessel]

m+ isnt

raid

what are you talking about

you are talking about m+ rn

why do you bring out raid

[desert tendon]

yea zac

[timid idol]

this every class has their niche in the context of hard cap

[desert tendon]

why no assa in last boss

uh

tell me tell me

[timid idol]

might be the lowest iq take ive ever seen

[desert tendon]

[timid idol]

blizzard being blizzard

[vivid vessel]

because sub is broken in raid

every season

[desert tendon]

you know what else is broken

my heart after you declined me

[vapid blaze]

90s cds on that boss are also very strong

[desert tendon]

😔

[timid idol]

90% of the classes have the unique niche of doing 20mil dps on big pulls like cinderbrew and gambit

[vivid vessel]

sin also have 90s cds