outlaw

[glass mortar]

[vivid vessel]

ye

and i have another outlaw boss after !

holy banger bro

[glass mortar]

ur pumpiiiiing

i mean u wouldnt be on the meters if u didnt have urself pinned to always show on the bottom but

still pumping

[vivid vessel]

i was at 5mil our best try at 2%

[glass mortar]

[vivid vessel]

which is

rank like 10 overall all calsses

thoughts

[glass mortar]

i belieb

pure st high uptime boss outlaw must be good

me when this half of an elemental sticking out of the ground has a bigger hitbox then a void lord bigger then dalaran

[craggy quiver]

Haranir racial is crit dmg in some way

[glass mortar]

welcome back dwarf

[craggy quiver]

Maybe I'm free from cow

[dawn talon]

the active is terribad though

1000 more years of dwarf

[glass mortar]

well their active is for flavor if they have a crit damage racial

wait

this is a CHOICE

[white marten]

Outlaw midrange rework coming alongside Devourer DH 😏🤔

[glass mortar]

finally, smart dhs

does this mean these dh wont be blind

"guys you know you can just imbue yourself with power you dont need to cut your own eyes out"

[vale warren]

wizard comp now has even more synergy, it's joever

[glass mortar]

TRUEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

DH DEBUFF AND ITS AN INT USER

[vale warren]

mage priest dh in every meta comp until the end of time

[glass mortar]

they are also getting targeted by ranged mechanics

so they must rarely ever be in melee in gameplay

or thats gunna be a bit yikes

[rough oriole]

Do we send coup mid vanish window if we build up to it by accident?

[gaunt phoenix]

Nah you wait

[vivid vessel]

@glass mortar eh honestly

even on that boss

outalw sucks

[glass mortar]

zac

did u see

[vivid vessel]

idk i have infinite gear

i do 0 damage

[glass mortar]

new dh is a caster literally

[vivid vessel]

ye ikno w

[glass mortar]

finally, maximum optimal ranged comp arrives

now we just need an int tank

int melee spec when

[bright crane]

Can't talk about anything yet, but there are some planned changes and should be some class/design philosophy blog posts coming soon™.

Yessss dude

Another mage rework!!!

[craggy quiver]

Outlaw gonna be a mid range spec

[bright crane]

It’s going to be a strength based mid-range caster wearing cloth i think

[glass mortar]

take that back

[bright crane]

[glass mortar]

oh shit i just realized what time it is

submitted my paperwork and done with work for the weekend

that means its DELVE O CLOCK

[red zinc]

harranir racial bad

we dwarfin

[craggy quiver]

Time to golf?

[glass mortar]

better

far far better

[random stirrup]

It has crit damage wdym

Huge!

[glass mortar]

they r talking about the active

[red zinc]

i mean ye

[random stirrup]

Lemme drop some big roots

[glass mortar]

looks like a meme flavor thing which is what active racials like this should be

[craggy quiver]

Free dmg

[red zinc]

those kinds of things are never good sadly

[random stirrup]

Very smart roots

They promised

[glass mortar]

idk roots that heal allies and damage foes sounds cute

delet dwarf

[craggy quiver]

I'm done being a cow

[white marten]

This would be a great opportunity to rework outlaw into an agi midrange tbh

[glass mortar]

this is a great opportunity to make a new gunslinger somewhere in the game that isnt outlaw

[red zinc]

eh

[glass mortar]

midrange sucks ass

its bad on evoker

[buoyant cosmos]

is surv considered midrange?

[glass mortar]

i doubt it will be much better on dh but we will see

no

survival is a melee

[white marten]

Melee

[red zinc]

ret is considered mid range

honestly

[buoyant cosmos]

kk

[red zinc]

[craggy quiver]

Mid range but we still count as melee

[ocean lodge]

Does the 4set coup just count as a 5 point spender? Do you send it right away or build first

[craggy quiver]

Sounds like a win to me

[glass mortar]

if ud press SS u send right away if u have other builders u build

[glass mortar]

they dont do that tho

[red zinc]

dude like

[glass mortar]

i mean sure if they did that itd be sick

[ocean lodge]

thanks

[red zinc]

boss hitboxes are so tiny this raid i feel like

maybe im doing something strange but

[glass mortar]

every mid range spec they have rn is counted as a ranged for mechanics tho

[red zinc]

shit stinks so hard

[craggy quiver]

Believe

[vivid vessel]

ye idk i do 0 damage

outlaw is so garbage

[white marten]

Yeah, they do. Giant bosses but you have to be on top of them to hit

[vivid vessel]

i tought

fatebound outlkaw

[keen belfry]

guys

[glass mortar]

i just think its hilarious

[vivid vessel]

would slap st

and it

[glass mortar]

this boss has a great hitbox

[vivid vessel]

just doesnt

[keen belfry]

how did my tank just do this

[glass mortar]

and its like 3X the size of dimis

dimi, the largest boss we've ever fought

who u cant hit from 3 feet away

[red zinc]

e sports

[vivid vessel]

am i low gear

[glass mortar]

[buoyant cosmos]

pressed CDs backwards

[glass mortar]

u have an execute trinket on thats the issue zac

[red zinc]

nephew got no gear

[glass mortar]

once u kill it u will catch up surely

and over haste cap as well

and still using the cringe belt???

actually zero gear wtf

[red zinc]

unc didnt spend crests to get rid of belt

[craggy quiver]

Just high roll

That's how we do dmg atm

[cinder relic]

More geared than my rogue and were on saladar

[glass mortar]

yea

his gear isnt bad

his damage on this boss compared to all these caster tho

i will not speak

[buoyant cosmos]

ur right, it's awful

[red zinc]

huh

[white marten]

Salad bar?

[cinder relic]

I mean its a caster boss fight lol

[glass mortar]

is it

zac has like 0% downtime

and its st

shouldnt this be an ok law fight

[cinder relic]

Which boss?

[glass mortar]

fract

[cinder relic]

Melee gets knocked back constantly wdym lol

And Ur forced to sit out of range because of bombs

[glass mortar]

ok but law never gets knocked back

his bomb place is in melee

hes like 100% uptime rn

struggling to do within 1m of the casters

[cinder relic]

Thought u were talking about soul hunters but yeah

I mean casters are just op this tier

[glass mortar]

yea

[cinder relic]

No rogue spec rlly does good damage on fract

[glass mortar]

the dragons are eating like crazy this season

both roles

[white marten]

And mages

[glass mortar]

outlaw is crazy tanky on this fight at least

feint every single mechanic

everything is an aoe

[vivid vessel]

DUDE

I DO

0

DAMAGE

THIS IS CRAZY

[glass mortar]

u tried ur hardest im proud of u

grats on the kill

[vivid vessel]

its so shit

i hate this tier

outalw is so garbage

[glass mortar]

yea

[cinder relic]

If it makes u feel any better assassination also sucks on that fight

[vivid vessel]

idc bro

outlaw is trash

[bright crane]

Hope ur parents don’t see your meters bro

[vivid vessel]

on every fight

and the only fight

[bright crane]

They’d be so disappointed

[vivid vessel]

that is made

for outlaw

ITS ALSO TERRIBLE

HAHA

[bright crane]

“This isn’t how we raised our son” they’d say

[vivid vessel]

outlaw litteraly need 10% aura buff

• 10% buff to trickster

thats crazy

what a shit spec

[bright crane]

Dude didn’t you see

Can't talk about anything yet, but there are some planned changes and should be some class/design philosophy blog posts coming soon™.

Midnight

Just be patient

[vivid vessel]

also half the assa people did more damage than me

this spec is just trash

also wtf

is fatebound

i have legit

0 energy

the whole fight

cause im spamming gs

?

idk

[craggy barn]

zac what dps u hit

[hollow thunder]

pug healer wrote "smash buttons" after i got outdamaged on first pull gambit by brewmaster

ig im washed 🙁

[vivid vessel]

4.4

..

[craggy barn]

i got smashed by a ret paladin the other day in a 12 flood 🙂

[glass mortar]

its ok zac has lost pulls to brm as well

[craggy barn]

oof zac

[vivid vessel]

which is like

[craggy barn]

thats heroic fracy damage

[glass mortar]

brm is kinda unhinged rn

[craggy barn]

gd

[vivid vessel]

all my pulls

[glass mortar]

on big pulls

[vivid vessel]

were like that

4.5

4.x

i highrolled a 5 once

but never again

[untold heart]

sorry if this have been asked, should i swap my s2 4-set for 2-set?

outlaw

[glass mortar]

pins have the answer

[vivid vessel]

i never lost adr

[untold heart]

ah ty

[vivid vessel]

btw

[glass mortar]

LOL

bruh wheres ur energy

forgot to drink a red bull before pull

[craggy barn]

bruh

why are they adding more crit damage racials

and not giving it to other races

that have existed

like forsaken

[cinder relic]

What

[glass mortar]

i mean its racials who rlly cares i dont get why we are getting a third crit damage but

everyones just gunna continue to be a dwarf or nelf if they take minmaxing race seriously

[white marten]

So that its bis for outlaw

Duh

[glass mortar]

and if u dont because thats cringe u can play whatever u want

its liberating

ok but it would be peak if the smart roots that can heal allies still root ur allies while it heals them

[vivid vessel]

there is no way outlaw doesnt get buffed

no way

[glass mortar]

wdym have u looked at overall logs zac we are blasting

[craggy barn]

bro i do -1.5% less damage as forsaken, i need something

[vivid vessel]

outalw was so much better in s1

like

idk

its crazy

wild

[cinder relic]

U can say that about most racials

[craggy barn]

i know

[glass mortar]

oh

[craggy barn]

i just want some treats man

[glass mortar]

wait is week 2 outlaw is already down to bottom half of overall statistics

good

[vivid vessel]

its useelss bro

the spec has never been this bad

and fatebound has got to go

this tree

is so trash

[glass mortar]

i feel like s1 was pretty bad

but

[vivid vessel]

destroy outlaw tuning

[craggy barn]

jeezus

[vivid vessel]

nah bro

[glass mortar]

i will defer judgement until i have full gear

[white marten]

Never been this bad? 🤔

[vivid vessel]

s1 was better

[craggy barn]

95percentile boss dam

[glass mortar]

cause thats when its gunna be the worst

[vivid vessel]

outlaw was way better in s1

[hollow thunder]

surely outlaw buffs soon

[craggy barn]

that boss dam

[vivid vessel]

like wayyyy better

you know why weran

cause in s1

[white marten]

Outlaw rework soon . Fatebound rework soon too

[glass mortar]

me when they managed to make outlaw a padding only spec

[vivid vessel]

outlaw did the same damage

but without raid buffs

in m+

[white marten]

i legit forgot what raid s1 was

[glass mortar]

queen dumpy

whats her name

[craggy barn]

nerubar

[cinder relic]

Look at 95% damage overall

[craggy barn]

palace

[white marten]

Ah right

[cinder relic]

Outlaw tier

[craggy barn]

huge outlaw tier guy

[cinder relic]

Queen ansurek

[vivid vessel]

i remember nerubar actually

outlaw wasnt even that bad

i remmeber thinking about progging as outlaw on queen and shit

[vivid vessel]

and it was good on brood

etc

[craggy barn]

POGGERS OUTLAW SO GOOD

[glass mortar]

dw

just dont look at herioc

[craggy barn]

this is heroic

[glass mortar]

it showcases the future of outlaw myth logs

[craggy barn]

[glass mortar]

thats herioc?

this is what i see

[white marten]

They just gonna giga buff fatebound to make it worth something. Literally what they did with assa fatebound. Still trash but now its overtuned trash

[mellow thicket]

Zac, in keys are you mostly just vanishing after coup de grace double cast?

[vivid vessel]

ye

[mellow thicket]

What other rules are you using outside of that for vanish?

[craggy barn]

oh wait i posted mythic

[white marten]

Lel

[glass mortar]

ye u posted 4 bosses

gg

[craggy barn]

yuh

huge outlaw tier dw

huge damage

[glass mortar]

dont

look at 95th percentile boss damage on herioc

O M E G A L U L

[craggy barn]

too late

[glass mortar]

OUTLAW TIEEEEEEEEEER

[vivid vessel]

spec has never been this bad btw

im 100% sure

[white marten]

Fatebound needs a rework. They need to do fatebound how they did the dark ranger Hero talent

[glass mortar]

yea i mean

idk what do u want me to say zac

outlaws thing has always been having free "pad"

anytime a fight has adds, we get to do lots of damage to them whenever they r up while doing almost all our boss damage

and they deleted that

gj they finally did it

[vivid vessel]

sub and sin slowly gained more and more niches

and outlaw

[hollow thunder]

dw guys 10% All Damage Buff and another 5% BF nerf soon

[vivid vessel]

just lost

everything

over and over

[nova basin]

High apm should be rewarding on meters though

[vivid vessel]

i cba

these devs are so clueless

[nova basin]

It’s just really not

[vivid vessel]

how is it that assa and sub

are allowed

to get infinite stuffs

over and over

[white marten]

Theyre not clueless- they just dont care

[vivid vessel]

and outlaw just idk

they just remove stuffs

[glass mortar]

peep normal now

outlaw is gunna be so fucking hot on farm late in the season man

trust

[cinder relic]

Go mythic

[white marten]

Fatebound was worse than dark ranger at launch, yet dark ranger got worked on infinitely more than fatebound. And its now one of the best hero trees in the game.

[glass mortar]

me when im looking at the first 4 bosses of the raid

[cinder relic]

[mellow thicket]

The analogy the squeaky wheel gets the grease normally applies. Until too much application, then it catches dust and slows down the process?

Shrug

[glass mortar]

it is funny tho

outlaws ST while trying to do cleave has never been this bad

not in my memory of playing it anyway

so that only stretches back to early bfa

[vivid vessel]

nope

never

[glass mortar]

we went from like ~4-5% tradeoff for cleave to what, like 20%

[craggy barn]

idk guys

[glass mortar]

if ur playing trickster pc

[white marten]

Except outlaw would be a very small, insignificant wheel, in this case. So insignificant, you dont notice.

[vivid vessel]

and it has been the only thing holding ouitlaw afloat

[craggy barn]

sims show outlaw being dog shit

[vivid vessel]

for a long time now

[glass mortar]

in one season

[vivid vessel]

like our only "niche"

[nova basin]

If you had a customer base and 30% were complaining about something needing to be better and 5% complaining about another issue. You fix the 30% first… outlaw is the 5%

[vivid vessel]

and we dont have that anymore

so

[delicate seal]

no, you just work on designing a new spec

for a class

[vivid vessel]

guys sims arent the reality

everyone knew

[delicate seal]

instead of fixing classes that already exist

[cinder relic]

I don't think shifting niches is a bad thing, but yeah, outlaw is undertuned this tier

[vivid vessel]

what is our niche

guy

[mellow thicket]

Yeah they clearly nerfed it off of the PTR as it was out performing?

[vivid vessel]

we have none

nothing

everything got removed slowly

[cinder relic]

I mean they literally aren't. Look at sub. It sims like dogshit and it's insane in keys and raid

[vivid vessel]

no but

when i said

[glass mortar]

well the old niche was doing free cleave while doing lots of boss damage

[vivid vessel]

outlaw will be dog

cause it sims dog

[glass mortar]

whats our new niche now that we lost that one

[vivid vessel]

you just said

sims means nothing

[glass mortar]

its not like our new damage profile gained something

[cinder relic]

Correct, cuz they don't

[vivid vessel]

which in general i would agree

[craggy barn]

its over zac

[glass mortar]

we arent even good st with the pure st build

[vivid vessel]

but not for outlaw

[craggy barn]

we're dead

its so over

clanker says we suck

[nova basin]

Sims don’t really plan a 35mob pull right?

[glass mortar]

WTF with a hard R

chiiiiiiiilll zomb

[mellow thicket]

Time for a wowhead article jajajajajajajaja

[white marten]

Assa does outlaw niche better than outlaw does outlaw niche

[glass mortar]

what is outlaw niche

we are discussing how they deleted a big positive aspect of outlaws profile we've had for a very long time

what did we gain tho

[vivid vessel]

ouytlaw niche was doing prio damage while doing aoe

[glass mortar]

is there anything we got better at

a singular thing with this new damage profile

[vivid vessel]

but every spec in the game does litteraly free funel

while aoing now

so

[white marten]

I mean everyone does everything now essentially. The only niche that still feels like a niche is spread add cleave.

[nova basin]

Heck even healers burst higher than outlaw at times

[glass mortar]

well we arent a burst like

its funny but who cares about outlaw losing to brm on 30 target pull when brm is doing real dps dps and scales past 8

thats literally always gunna happen

we need to complain about the real stuff

like them just nerfing our damage profile

when we already have enough limitations on it

[white marten]

Wtb holy pal ashen hollow

[hollow thunder]

they took our increased melee range, they took our ST damage, but what they never take is our target cap

[white marten]

Should we protest like the ret pallys? 🤣

[glass mortar]

no because what they did was cringe

[bright crane]

All 8 people protesting

[nova basin]

Yea but rets are now a meme and I love it.

[bright crane]

It worked though

[nova basin]

Target cap

[glass mortar]

did it

[white marten]

They got buffed, wym?

[glass mortar]

ret not lookin so hot on these boss damage logs either

even 5% buffed

that was a pittance

[white marten]

Theyll probably get another 5%

[bright crane]

Whatever

[white marten]

Give it time

[bright crane]

Beggars can’t be choosers

[nova basin]

Lour guild leader is ret and my weak aura has him sussed as using one button and he out dps’s me in raid.

[white marten]

Uh…

Idk what to tell you pal 🤣

What WA is that?

[nova basin]

Pretty sure it’s called what it is on the tin, like one button identifier or something

I never call anyone out as it’s the game, but I’m always interested on how it performs

[ocean lodge]

I genuinely forgot how much I liked outlaw c:

[sullen wyvern]

looks like they want to redesign outlaw for midnigh

Hope it doesnt get braindead unfun to play

[glass mortar]

that seems pretty unlikely

well the unfun part at least

[crimson arch]

new tier takes alot of the fun

[cinder relic]

Why man

[glass mortar]

most specs theyve reworked recently have ended up pretty damn fun

[cinder relic]

Oh

[glass mortar]

ret and frost dk spring to mind

[cinder relic]

Ur being positive

Yeah idk, outlaw atm seems like shit like demo back in wod where the Devs are kinda like "yeah idk we need to start over"

[glass mortar]

yea

[sullen wyvern]

Hope youre right

[cinder relic]

Which I've sort of been in the opinion of for awhile now

[sullen wyvern]

Yeah outlaw is a fuckfest but I enjoy it a lot

[glass mortar]

honestly theyve dropped things hinting at the possibility of gunslinger existing a couple times now

and im feeling out if id hate it

[sullen wyvern]

Maybe it's some edipo complex idk

[glass mortar]

if they made outlaw into that

[wintry solar]

Maybe that's why you're in the super cooked tier on that tier list Guy

[glass mortar]

i think as long as the core loop stays similar and its fast paced i wouldnt care either way

its not like our melee animations are all that anyway

[sullen wyvern]

Considering what they did to survival there's agood chance it could happen

[glass mortar]

i think the reworks from this expac definitly show its not a bad thing to be cooked rn tho

[buoyant cosmos]

swish, swish, BANG, swish, BANG x5

[glass mortar]

so im hopeful

[sullen wyvern]

yeah I am nto saying survival rework was bad either

[low gazelle]

Weapons would be a little strange with that.

[sullen wyvern]

maybe its initial design but the overall idea is kinda fun

[cinder relic]

Just be positive about things 😄

[sullen wyvern]

I think its the most fun spec among hunters to play

[cinder relic]

[wintry solar]

Fs

I love surv

But I love outlaw more

[glass mortar]

im only being positive because i am not at this moment ingame playing 1fth outlaw tho

i'll be crashing out later after i do some keys with guildies

[sullen wyvern]

why is FTH not a single point talent again?

[wintry solar]

I'm just glad we're getting changes in general. I like new things.

[buoyant cosmos]

no fun allowed

[dawn talon]

i would def hate it

make us pirates again

gunslinger is a lame ass concept that gets shoehorned into every game in even lamer ways

[glass mortar]

is it shoehorned tho

i mean bro we are shooting guns for over half our attacks now

[wintry solar]

It's in every mmo

[glass mortar]

mf ur already a gunslinger

[low gazelle]

What if it’s a pirate gunslinger?

[glass mortar]

u just stab people with ur autos

[lime lake]

sinister strike>sinister shot

[red zinc]

keep doing eco dome but aint getting no dome

[lime lake]

mid range

ez

pistolero

[wintry solar]

Or

Get this

Saber Slash

[red zinc]

seventeen meter long sword

[lime lake]

pirate is dead sorry friend

[red zinc]

mid range

[dense bridge]

[wintry solar]

Why do we want to be mid-range anyway?

[dense bridge]

make that one s2 trinket that summons a pirate helper an ability

[red zinc]

we silly wid it

[wintry solar]

So true

[red zinc]

honestly

blizzard likes mid range stuff recently

maybe they got a fetish for it or somethin

trick them into reworking outlaw by asking for midrange

[nova basin]

i genuenly think though outlaw must be a nightmare to scale with its kit.. which is probably the main reason they just don't bother.

[glass mortar]

well i dont want to be midrange but gunslingers cute and outlaws pretty damn close to it already

so i could see it happening

[dense bridge]

theyre considering it more now because people complained and rightfully so about acrobatic strikes being taken away

[glass mortar]

id prefer to stay in melee

[red zinc]

idk i dont think its as deep as them not wanting to touch outlaw because its too hard

its just that nobody plays it and the people that do dont like changes that much

[frank finch]

we sure have been getting mentioned alot in this midnight articles

[red zinc]

why pour effort into that when you can just update warlock and make 10x more people happy

[nova basin]

they are scared if they up ST in the slightest its going to completely break aoe.. which is true, but any nerf to AoE we take it personally as its the part everyone wants more of.

[glass mortar]

i dont think the popularity argument tracks

who got the most major reworks this expac even

frost dk

shamans

survival hunter

clearly the most popular of popular specs

wasnt shaman always memed on for never getting changes even

[dense bridge]

rework is ass -> people stop playing outlaw/rogue -> only the diehards are left -> diehards like it -> why change it

[nova basin]

but ret and hunter tweaks on every class change.

[glass mortar]

yes they cooked the guys they decided to majorly work on too much

i dont think u need to spend every patch of an expac working on the same 3 classes

but they did so w/e

our turn next

[wintry solar]

It does feel pretty "next in line"

Shame we gotta wait until 2026

[glass mortar]

yea i mean us and rets were the most recently "majorly touched up" specs in df

it made me sad but it didnt surprise me

[nova basin]

rouges we have heard your comments and you will be happy to know we are now working on buffing BM hunters.

[wintry solar]

Touched up after brand spanking new talent trees too

The newer trees feel a lot better than the ones they redid in df

[dense bridge]

to be fair the rot for hunter really set in during bfa and didnt get better until midnight

[glass mortar]

im not angry hunter got changes

im happy for them

[wintry solar]

If you play any of the specs that got touched on

[glass mortar]

idk if they needed like 2 entire seasons of major content patches with major changes

but changes were good

[wintry solar]

I'm angry at surv changes ngl

[dense bridge]

like they were only good due to tuning when they were good

[glass mortar]

well yea

survival got way overcooked

im sad with where they ended up for alot of the same reasons im sad with laws current profile

[dense bridge]

12.0 survival is bussin

it got an actual cool spec tree

[glass mortar]

i havent played it seriously since s1

[cinder relic]

So excited for the rogue changes

[glass mortar]

ok

no secret dimi phase a 35%

[wintry solar]

Same Guy

[glass mortar]

do they commit to moving lust now

or keep going

what if its at 20% 😰

[wintry solar]

The dude saying they read the forums got me a little nervous though ngl lol

[haughty wigeon]

outlaw mentioned btw

um

i wonder what theyre gonna do

[sullen wyvern]

something good im sure

https://tenor.com/view/clueless-aware-twitch-forsen-emote-gif-25354609

[proven ocean]

Outlaw is the most unplayable WA heavy spec in the game

And its not even close to anything

At all

[fathom bramble]

outlaw doesn't even have anything that requires something more than a basic cd/buff tracker if blizzard bothered to add the right things to it

[proven ocean]

Not even 50%

[fathom bramble]

maybe trickster if you want to get super optimized

[sullen wyvern]

But what other WAs you need besides UB tracker and the container rolls buff one?

[wintry solar]

Sure but you're doing a major disservice to yourself for not tracking other things.

[proven ocean]

Cooked

[fathom bramble]

which other thing

[proven ocean]

U still need the container rtb tracker

[fathom bramble]

UB is literally the 1 thing

a very simple buff tracker with all 6 RTB buffs and the actual container buff that is normally hidden would suffice

[cinder relic]

I'm excited to see what they do with the spec

[proven ocean]

Don’t really think thats enough at all

Lmao

[wintry solar]

Subt duration for one.

[proven ocean]

U still need a WA on every cd

[wintry solar]

What do you want to see?

[proven ocean]

On outlaw

[sullen wyvern]

Don't worry guys, If we dont like it we can just close the outlaw channel and protest

[proven ocean]

To actually play it optimally

[sullen wyvern]

[dawn talon]

its not hard to track mentally idk

[proven ocean]

?

[cinder relic]

Return to sl simplicities

[fathom bramble]

this is available already with a stock ui though

[wintry solar]

I like that

[fathom bramble]

a lot of people use WAs for CDs that basically look identical to what you can do with the stock ui anyway

[cinder relic]

I think the reliant on weakauras is a hit misguided but I'm all in favor of compressing a lot of the stuff the spec has

[proven ocean]

Havent checked the new tracker shit

But ur gonna end up just using WA like trackers

To play it

[cinder relic]

They haven't really failed on an iteration of outlaw, design wise Imo so I'm excited to see what they have planned

[proven ocean]

Nothing will change

[wintry solar]

I think they added a lot of customization recently

[fathom bramble]

yeah like every other spec in the game

[wintry solar]

You and I think alike sometimes

[proven ocean]

Ye except outlaw is way worse than everything on that

[fathom bramble]

the current cooldown/buff trackers come up very slightly short but it's mostly related to hidden buffs that blizzard seemingly doesn't want you to track

[proven ocean]

I know that i can play sin perfectly without weird WAs

But outlaw

Nah

U need some cooked WAs that blizzard wont add

Like er bug tracker we have

U think they’ll add that?

[pastel cedar]

do you guys find it easy to swap between outlaw and sub/assass. IDK where to get daggers im cooked

[fathom bramble]

I think it's incredibly disingenuous to say you need WAs to play a spec when the current stock ui does almost everything that people actually use WAs for

especially if the only examples are things that blizz could easily fix with standard buff tracking

[hollow thunder]

add BTE to Coup, Add Pistol Shot to proc unseen blade. Just fixed it. np blizz

[fathom bramble]

or are literally bugs

[proven ocean]

With all due respect to outlaws but 99.9999% of them all suck balls

And i dont think blizzard’s ui is going anywhere good enough with outlaw without reworking it

[fathom bramble]

well considering the wowhead comment that insinuated that you 'need' a WA to tell you which of your 3 finishers to press you are probably right

[proven ocean]

Or again allowing us to just use our own WAs

But

If they do end up forcing us to use basic ui

[fathom bramble]

most of those bad players do not track the things that basic ui cannot track

[proven ocean]

I think alot of these giga things will be much worse for the average player

[fathom bramble]

it's MAYBE only the container buff that anyone cares about

and all they have to do is click one checkbox in the spell and make it unhidden

the new tracker looks extremely similar to what most people download off of wago and stick with forever

[proven ocean]

Click kir WA is also omega helpful

I dont see blizzard adding that at all

[vapid blaze]

wdym witch click kir wa?

[proven ocean]

You can make it disappear at x amount of time before u fail to keep the buffs or not

[proven ocean]

It tells u if u have enough buffs for KiR or not

It doesn’t matter much

[vapid blaze]

oh just that i see
thought there was a tech xD

[wintry solar]

2 WAs needed is 2 too many anyway

[proven ocean]

But i did find it useful when i was playing outlaw fulltime

I was just seeing everything with my own UI

Brb sleep

[vivid vessel]

thats every spec in the game wdym

and thats just the cooldown manager

[fathom bramble]

@vivid vessel did you try outlaw on forge at all

[vivid vessel]

no

because

i tought about it

and you lose 15% going pc talents

[cedar kernel]

[vivid vessel]

then 10% going trickster

25% st

to do less than sub aoe

• there is a damage amp

if you play fb

well

you know what happen

[fathom bramble]

yeah..

I was kind of thinking about the same problems, but was wondering if you tried it anyway

[vivid vessel]

nope

because sub is alos

mega op

[fathom bramble]

do you know if our 72% slow matters

[vivid vessel]

on this boss

[fathom bramble]

I noticed atrophic doesn't really work on this fight

[vivid vessel]

all the rogues on world first played it

so i played it

[cinder relic]

Slow used to be required

Now it's just very nice

[red zinc]

whats uh

the time for that systems panel tomorrow

(if its even viewable live which it probably isnt)

[near rock]

depends on ur comp

I played trickster pc on it

[bright crane]

anybody else seeing this?

[near rock]

update ur wow

[bright crane]

i cant

[fathom bramble]

did you change your character name?

[bright crane]

theres nothing to update

nope

[fathom bramble]

or are your logs private these days

[near rock]

what version of wow are u on

[near rock]

no we just havent killed it

but in our pulls ive been playing that

[low gazelle]

I had that issue the other day and it didn’t show an update until I restarted my PC

[fathom bramble]

I see

[near rock]

im thinking maybe fatebound instead, idk its all stinky as fuck unless I roll broadsides early

[median owl]

what is keep spamming removing my subterfuge?

the belt?

[fathom bramble]

is there any other class that actually has a reliable free 70% slow?

[vivid vessel]

ye but fb you lose infinite st

from the adds spawning

[fathom bramble]

everyone I check is like 50-60%

[vivid vessel]

i dont think there is a correct play on that boss

[red zinc]

do you have trinkets macro'd to vanish

[fathom bramble]

or the slow has some extreme gcd cost to apply to everything

[median owl]

no

[near rock]

I think overall you're gonna get more dps out of trickster PC but its nothing insane

[cedar kernel]

@vivid vessel zac lord does ur tank always chain pull or he will made the pull huge? my group tried 15+ Hall last night, everyone doing 8.5M dps but we dont have time to finish the last boss

[fathom bramble]

I guess in the end atrophic is like only 25% effective so you might as well use it

[cedar kernel]

idk is it the dmg issue or route issue

[median owl]

got one macroed to my BtE tho

[vivid vessel]

we do a lot of chain pulling ye and pulling on bosses

[vivid vessel]

i think add damage is irrelevant kinda now but idk

they die in 2 gcds

[fathom bramble]

breaking vanish with a trinket prevents subterfuge from happening

[cedar kernel]

fair i will give a opinion to the tank

bc my tank love monksea

and i love u

like we are going to learn u

[desert tendon]

ty i love myself as well

[median owl]

fun bug, thanks

[proven ocean]

Np

[proven ocean]

Np

[desert tendon]

ty cuh

[proven ocean]

Np

[tender wedge]

this is the entire problem with my raid lol, on ST bosses i do very well but any aoe and we've got padgods who kill shit before i can do anything to it

[indigo token]

https://tenor.com/view/packgod-i-need-your-help-imp-gw2-zombie-gif-8470780539185564844

[sullen narwhal]

Will they fix outlaw awful stat scaling?

Who knows

Is it just me, or does outlaw tend to significantly underperform sim?

Outlaw is generally one of the harder specs to play so it might be a skill issue

But especially in st, i struggle to do good damage

[torpid fiber]

It underperforms because of downtime but it's also really hard and punishing

[proven ocean]

Ye by adding haste requirements which made stats 100x more annoying to deal with

[willow portal]

same ilvl in a 11 halls

is that just me being bad?

[red zinc]

yes but the frost dk is even more embarassing so make fun of him

[willow portal]

really hoped you would say my damage is good

:)

[red zinc]

can do better

but also can do worse

[willow portal]

i dont know how to do better

[red zinc]

if your ar uptime is already decent its really just a keep playing angle

[willow portal]

84% this key

[cedar kernel]

i think

its the route issue

but thats weird bc if tank made huge pig dk should be good

idol very good very good

i love this trinket

[willow portal]

really?

i never knew when to use it

[red zinc]

ye

great trinket

[willow portal]

i already have problems keeping ar

[cedar kernel]

use it on cd but not on stealth

i think it has high prio than KS

[willow portal]

[cedar kernel]

so its like
1.out of stealth
2.Idol
3.KS

[willow portal]

is anyone doing m+ log analysis?

[proper veldt]

huge wtf

[willow portal]

What enchant do we use? (Is it different between raid and m+?)

[desert tendon]

nothing can beat the feeling of having 20mn snd

[gaunt phoenix]

radiant/crit/vers are all close

[proven ocean]

I know what can beat it

[gaunt phoenix]

i just 2x radiant everywhere

[proven ocean]

0 sec 20min 0 sec 20min snd

Sensi…

[willow portal]

Ty

I see my cpm in those halls keys today was only about 75

Is that like way too low?

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm i dont really look at cpm

[cedar kernel]

i think a little

[balmy topaz]

How did you manage it

[cedar kernel]

i can send a log

[proper veldt]

idk it happens multiple times a key just completely random

well maybe twice per key

[cedar kernel]

oh wait nvm

me is 75 also

[willow portal]

!log

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[wintry solar]

Hax

[craggy kelp]

what are people crafting for 2nd spark? ring/neck?

[glass mortar]

can just do whatev sims highest of bracers/ring/neck/oh or wherever u wanna put an embell

[frail veldt]

JEALOUS

ive been farming halls

havent even seen it yet

[frail veldt]

I did bracers

theres some good rings this season

Ive gotten lucky with jewelry

[glass mortar]

i did a ring so i could have 2X elementals done

[frail veldt]

well I put element on my bracers

[glass mortar]

i think ur likely to end up with at least 1 ring anyway

and i want engi bracers this season

[frail veldt]

tbh I ALMOST went full vers bracers

[glass mortar]

yeeeeeeeee

[frail veldt]

but then I realized my sim already wants me to use a crit flask

so I didnt

I thikn with trickster

we wont push that high on vers

cuz crit starts to win when vers is like 40% and crit is under 25%

[glass mortar]

ok but the dif between crit and vers flask is probably like 0.000069%

[cedar kernel]

my group gave me that

[glass mortar]

if ur just so vers dr'd u want crit

[frail veldt]

it was .5% I think when I simmed

[glass mortar]

ye sounds about right

[frail veldt]

I have like super low crit

[glass mortar]

but ur getting like 2% less dr

[frail veldt]

like 14%

and I have 37% vers

[glass mortar]

ah im at like 24% still

[frail veldt]

leme see where im at now

[glass mortar]

u could always put crit on ur cloak too

[frail veldt]

yeah true

I just did bracers for now its nbd

[glass mortar]

mhm

[frail veldt]

my bracers were also still champ track

[glass mortar]

but yea i wanted a second embel done and im planning to make engi bracers

[frail veldt]

I almost did boots cuz I have veteran boots

but I dont want to get cucked by a boots drop in raid

[glass mortar]

just do whatever makes most sense for ur gear

[frail veldt]

and feelbad

[glass mortar]

u'll have a zillion sparks anyway

[frail veldt]

yeah honestly its just a gamble

on what gear will drop for you

[glass mortar]

im healing 10s on my rat mw rn

its fun

healing undergeared

bro how does HoA have zero damage on any boss its kinda crazy

[frail veldt]

these are my unbuffed stats atm

oh wait I had mastery flask

sec

[gaunt phoenix]

u might want to crit flask

[proper bear]

!was

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[tawny vessel]

did you know vanishing on the arrows part of last gambit boss can fuck it and make two sets of arrows? because I sure didn't

[sudden fulcrum]

why would you do that

[tawny vessel]

trying to stop adr from falling off

[sudden fulcrum]

oh yeah, outlaw things

[open hollow]

should i use KS before my two uses of vanish on pull

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

I take it back

Maybe no dimensius kill this week at all?

Idk

[torpid fiber]

I think it dies

but not today for liquod

[proven ocean]

Its just unknown who wins at this point

Might still be liquid after 24-30 hrs

Or echo in 2 days

Idk

Just a race against time

[dawn talon]

not close enough to call a probable winner yet

imo

[proven ocean]

Whoever figures out the final comp wins

[torpid fiber]

Yeah I have no clue who wins either

[proven ocean]

If u figure out 95% of the fight then sleep

Then u lose

[dawn talon]

good to watch a race where both guilds are playing well

tho

[proven ocean]

Probably ye

I still want echo to win tho

[dawn talon]

last tier was soooo fuckin boring

[torpid fiber]

I feel like liquid are gambling that they can sleep tonight without echo killing it rn

[proven ocean]

Was cringe watching max ego his ass out on both echo and method few days back

[torpid fiber]

I'm about to go on a jog so hopefully it doesn't die while I'm doing so

[proven ocean]

Most cringe shit i’ve seen from max in ages

Max is always like that tho

[torpid fiber]

I feel like you have to have a big ego to play at that level tbf

[frail veldt]

I think one of the most annoying things right now about trickster in keys is fazed uptime

so you dont waste coup

[proven ocean]

Jah

Nah

Scrype has -100 ego

And has more exp than max

Its very safe to say scrype is the most experienced rwf player of all guilds

Max is good too but has omega huge ego

[dawn talon]

scripe used to have the most fucking unbearable ego tho

it just comes with time

that u drop the ego

[proven ocean]

I dont recall

Max is the most egoistic player in all of wow rn

And its not even close

[dawn talon]

i think the wowtwt "humans" have way bigger egos

but if u mean in the race

or like actually good at the game

ye

[proven ocean]

I mean max isn’t good at the game anymore

Same with scrype

Which is normal

They’re just RLs

They do background work

[jolly geyser]

They like solving

[proven ocean]

Ye in the race

Its just weird to have rwf ego

[dawn talon]

ohhh ye then i agree w u

[proven ocean]

Just because he won x2 in a row

On 2 easy raids

And now its neck on neck on a hard raid when echo lost their most valueable players and still can win

[fluid iron]

ngl only reason i root for liquid, is because of their raid vibes, i enjoy watching them quite alot

[worthy elm]

Who did echo lose?

[fluid iron]

and i like imexile, he is a nice guy

[proven ocean]

Their vibe is cool ye

Max has omega cringe takes lately

Tho

Thats whats annoying

[fluid iron]

i dont really see any of that, my socials are so far off from the wow hemosphere ngl xD

[proven ocean]

Its sometimes better that way

[outer wadi]

is dagger good in offhand?

[proven ocean]

Ye

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[fluid iron]

mine is just filled with F1 drama instead

and id rather see that

[dawn talon]

i think it's always better

wow drama is rly fucking lame

always

like imagine your whole tl is adept tweeting "gmmmm who want me >_<" forr the 1 millionth time and aotc raiders arguing about mythic fight design

id lose my mind

[gaunt phoenix]

gmmmm who want me >_<

[ocean lodge]

two small questions since I haven't really touched outlaw seriously since we didn't take killing spree, what's the best time to send it in a key, what's the worst time to send it?

my assumption is on cd unless in a crackshot window?

[gaunt phoenix]

it's the highest prio finisher outside of stealth, higher prio than vanish and coup

[bright crane]

man

i really miss s2 tier

[gaunt phoenix]

but sometimes you must vanish anyway to prevent AR from expiring

[ocean lodge]

gotcha.

does the new one let you sinister strike or do you have to kinda let it full channel

[gaunt phoenix]

you must let it channel but you can cancel it with a finisher when it builds you to 7cp

there is maybe a bit of nuance to letting it finish vs cancel

if you need energy then you should probably let it fill your energy

if you need CTO procs for KIR then you should probably cancel it

[ocean lodge]

understood, thanks.

[gaunt phoenix]

Other than that, cancel vs letting it go is about the same

[lone spear]

@gaunt phoenix recently ive been trying cancelling KS at 5-6 cp with SS > coup for a big coup. its felt pretty good with the 1fth build but not sure if its actually a gain

[frail veldt]

hot take I hate when I KS then I bte at the end of it and it procs and I have to use a finisher AGAIN and it takes forever to get to actually start spending UB procs

im like tryna get back into vanish

[lone spear]

does feel like suffering from success sometimes

[spark quarry]

any of u guys got macro for shadowmeld into stealth?

[frail veldt]

yes

#showtooltip
/cleartarget
/stopattack
/cast shadowmeld
/cancelaura shadowmeld
/stopattack
/cast stealth
/targetlasttarget

have to press it twice

make sure youre off gcd

[vivid vessel]

yes thanks

[frail veldt]

and you arent currently in a melee swing(i like to turn my back or step away from the mobs)

[vivid vessel]

thats why ks should auto consume its ub !

[frail veldt]

agreed!

[spark quarry]

thank you so much bro @frail veldt

[lone spear]

the macro is a lot more annoying than manually pressing it imo

but see which u prefer

[frail veldt]

well it doesnt work if you manually press it

is the problem haha

[fathom bramble]

imagine if any combo point generator could consume UB

including KS

and we could store like 8 escalatings

or something

[frail veldt]

if you dont cancelaura shadowmeld it takes like a full half second before you can stealth after a meld

[vivid vessel]

ye..

[cedar kernel]

idol dmg

[vivid vessel]

thats what trickster should have bveen..

[frail veldt]

or you can meld, move(which cancels meld), then stealth

[vivid vessel]

so its trully passive

• remove that rng ub proc thing