outlaw

[vivid vessel]

[buoyant cosmos]

I can see where you're coming from, I'm not always in the mood for it

[vivid vessel]

wtf

new dh video

CAST

IT CAST

[hasty warren]

I realy love when on ur steam u're listening high-drop techno and then it plays Charles Aznavour

[vivid vessel]

ye this shit look wack ngl

aug 2.0

ass

[hasty warren]

it's a support spec ?

[vivid vessel]

doenst look like it

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jK3eBRrdQls

but idk

havoc that cast things

[elder phoenix]

is there any weakaura for RTB/KIR

thats accurate?

[glass mortar]

was that

[vivid vessel]

ye your brain

[glass mortar]

a point and click instant dash

[vivid vessel]

ye i saw that

[glass mortar]

with a grapple range

[vivid vessel]

grapple

[glass mortar]

that was disgusting

[vivid vessel]

ye

[glass mortar]

surely not a blink tho

surely

[vivid vessel]

they are stealing our utility

nah its not a blink

you can see travel timme

[glass mortar]

those void spell effects r suck as fuck tho

void beam

[lime lake]

the fact that they didnt even give it a unique meta model and its just a reskinned havoc model

[glass mortar]

ok but like whats the specs basic rotation gunna look like it sounds like ur showing me all its "nukes"

[lime lake]

is so funny to me

[hasty warren]

havoc 2

[glass mortar]

which look cool

[hasty warren]

more like a mix of havoc and vengence

[glass mortar]

but in the last 5 seconds when ur just sitting at 30 yards throwing a void glaive

is that what a majority of its gunna be

cause that looked very silly

[lofty sand]

@vivid vessel https://youtu.be/puj68pik2Eg?t=725 in this part why did u spam 3 ss?

u had no fix ub

just 2

[vivid vessel]

uh

waht am i gonna build with

[frank finch]

how do we even sim this shit its not on raidbots

[vivid vessel]

am i supposed to press my toes

[glass mortar]

😏

[lofty sand]

oh u had no blade flurry

oh

XD

mb

also how lucky it was

u got 2 ub

[vivid vessel]

eh

tier is 35% chance

thats the same chance as proccing a ps you know

its not that rare

[lofty sand]

ig yeah

[frank finch]

tell me

[glass mortar]

i mean

get all the rest of ur gear done and then do a stat weight sim and feelcraft it

maybe eventually raidbots will have a thing for all the ring combos but there is a loooooooooooooooot

[frank finch]

[lofty sand]

https://youtu.be/puj68pik2Eg?t=798 @vivid vessel last ask, why didnt u gs here before coup?

[glass mortar]

i mean its not that complicated right, only if u are trying to use the boe ring to solve ur haste

even then its not that i guess

[vivid vessel]

idk i had 2 stacks of vanish, i hate pressing builders when that happens

idk if thats correct or not idc much

like the apl would have pressed bf aswell here

[ripe ibex]

technically should only use gs < 7 cp pretty sure

[vivid vessel]

not me

but im diffy

[desert tendon]

Zac feelcrafting

Gg

[vivid vessel]

ye all the times

[desert tendon]

Outlaw s doom

[vivid vessel]

thats outlaw rogue

[hasty warren]

gs in st seems ok on cd no ?

[glass mortar]

if you had played like the apl u woulda beat the feral on overall thats all im sayin

[hasty warren]

as triskter

[glass mortar]

💅

[lofty sand]

yeah idk

i would gs everytime there

but ur the best

so

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[desert tendon]

Tell him weran

[vivid vessel]

it doesntr matter lol

[desert tendon]

Feelcrafting is for casual

[vivid vessel]

i delayed it one finisher cause i didnt wanna waste cdr on vanish

prolly was wrong in this case

idk

idc

[desert tendon]

Gg you re a casual zac

No Wonder you lost green

[vivid vessel]

its litteraly irrelevant tho in that case

[lofty sand]

i mean 2 coup is not in gs

thats

matters

no?

[glass mortar]

eh

its not like coup does a ton of damage

[vivid vessel]

coup does 0 dps

so idk

[lofty sand]

free dps

tho

?

no?

[glass mortar]

moreso about the cdr and stacks it gives u

[cinder relic]

absolutely not

[vivid vessel]

you waste cp

so idk

[cinder relic]

Its a hybrid melee like survival/ret/enhance

[vivid vessel]

im telling you i didnt wanna waste cp

of cdr

[lofty sand]

u wasted 1 cp either way

[vivid vessel]

for vanish

[lofty sand]

cuz

u

bf

no?

[glass mortar]

well its a hybrid ranged it sounds like

which is... awkward

[vivid vessel]

bro

its irrelevant

[cinder relic]

Like enhance?

[glass mortar]

no

[vivid vessel]

i prolly would have done it different if i were to play it again

[glass mortar]

enhance is a melee

[vivid vessel]

like there is 10 iteration of this moment

[glass mortar]

ranged vs melee classification controls the mechanics you get

[desert tendon]

It suppose to be like sv first rework. Weave in n out of fights

[glass mortar]

so its fairly important

[desert tendon]

I think

[vivid vessel]

that will sim the exact same haha

[glass mortar]

like devoker

[cinder relic]

Half of enhances abilities are ranged spells

[glass mortar]

gets full ranged mechanics

[vivid vessel]

legit not important

[glass mortar]

enhance gets zero ranged mechanics

[lofty sand]

im just saying u say it wastes a cp but you wasted either way in bf

[cinder relic]

bolt, ele blast

[lofty sand]

but yeah

[glass mortar]

thats what i mean

[lofty sand]

i get it

[cinder relic]

I don't think this spec will be getting both mechanics

[glass mortar]

ok

mid ranged implies it does

[snow viper]

Enhance doesn't work outside of melee though because storm strike fuels everything

[glass mortar]

evoker is mid ranged

[cinder relic]

I'm aware of this

[glass mortar]

survival has never been classified as mid ranged or anything ranged

even tho u can turn into a ranged dps for 15s every minute

if it doesnt then thats probably for the best because i think making any hybrid melee ranged dps get ranged mechanics would be awful

[lime lake]

i think this is just evoker ranged and it happens to have an ability or two where its briefly in melee

[desert tendon]

In sl in pure St you lost 2% dps playing from range as sv

😔

[cinder relic]

Maybe yeah

[lime lake]

like hunt in void beam get out

but idk hard to tell

the preview was really terrible

[glass mortar]

that hunt is absurd

i froth at the mouth for a movement ability like that

[hasty warren]

I know ppl who think Outlaw is range because of BTE and PS kek

[bright crane]

oh so you know people huh? nice humble brag..

[glass mortar]

i wonder what the plan is for hero talents for this

are they going to remove one of the existing from a spec and rejig around which specs get which

is it going to get 2 of its own unshared hero talent trees

[vivid vessel]

ye

apparernyly its uh

fellscared?

thats getting removed from havoc

i dont remmeber where i saw that

but ye

[cinder relic]

Havoc hero talents likely getting a full overhaul

They said every hero talent is getting +10 levels right

and reworks to some

[hasty warren]

ye u know guildies

[craggy barn]

how much vers does the pvp ring have at max ilvl

[vivid vessel]

not enouigh

only 6k

[craggy barn]

damn

equiv to roulett?

[vivid vessel]

its less than the one from last tier

that one is almost 7k

:(

[craggy barn]

🙁

just got the gambit ring to replace last tier crafted

[normal forge]

I got the concept behind new 4p, the idea is like, reset cd so fast u can keep 5 buffs pretty much all the time with KIR

(kir trickster)

[craggy barn]

gdi i still have to wait for raid to take vault

prayge for soulbinder neck from raid

[digital linden]

it dropped for me on myth today

but it went to the arcane mage

😭

[cedar kernel]

just failed a 14+ Dawnbreaker

[craggy barn]

sadge

[cedar kernel]

[wintry solar]

They haven't said anything yet I don't think

That stuff is friday

Saturday

Excuse me

[frank finch]

as in the hero tree will extend more?

[wintry solar]

Where the next 10 levels will go at all

I can't imagine it not be hero trees though

[frank finch]

yeah thats our rework

[random obsidian]

+10 lvls would mean they're twice as big right?

[cinder relic]

I swear they did

[wintry solar]

I hope I'm wrong. The anticipation is killing me.

Curiosity is absolutely killing this cat

I can't find anything about it

[normal forge]

about what?

[lime lake]

https://tenor.com/view/dies-cat-dead-died-gif-13827091

[wintry solar]

Hero talents getting the 10 levels

[fathom bramble]

they said ages ago that hero talents would be revisited with every new release

[normal forge]

for midnight or next patch?

[fathom bramble]

I always assumed that to mean more points as we leveled again

[wintry solar]

Logically it makes sense, it just hasn't been confirmed.

[wintry solar]

I took that as it could mean anything

Since it's so vague

[fathom bramble]

fair

what if they just let us take both

[proper bear]

Maybe one of the talents will remove target cap

[cinder relic]

I doubt we get +10 in our core trees

Since they are kinda balanced around not having +10 points

but adding +10 to hero talents is just the new baseline that everybody would have

[wintry solar]

5 in spec and class tree is just asking for trouble in some capacity

[normal forge]

for all clasases or just rogue?

[wintry solar]

All classes

[fathom bramble]

with how trees are structered currently you would just put all 5 in your final bracket

for most specs at least

[cinder relic]

Sin getting all the bleed t alents, and also KB

[fathom bramble]

which for us would just make every build go 2fth kir ho crackshot

[cinder relic]

How to make KiR playable

[fathom bramble]

also lets you take vigor on the left tree

actual energy fix

[wintry solar]

Dude

Don't fix rogue

Just give us more talent points

[normal forge]

buff tierset, imo

[torpid fiber]

If we keep discovering more fatebound bugs we won't need buffs 🙂

[vivid vessel]

its trickster that needs bfufs

about 10% to be exact

[torpid fiber]

yeah

[normal forge]

are u using fatebound for m+ ?

[vivid vessel]

no im not

because fatebound

does not

scale

[fathom bramble]

Make KS actually count as a combo point generator for starters

[vivid vessel]

with more targets

it scales downard

[wintry solar]

And prio

[vivid vessel]

ou start healing mobs after a certain target count

rng targeting

waht an invention

[wintry solar]

I don't like it hitting random targets

[vivid vessel]

no shit

[wintry solar]

Its stinky poopoo

[vivid vessel]

i need the dev that made taht decision

to explain it to me

i wanna know how they can defend that shit

[wintry solar]

There's a line to be drawn for form over function

From now on, everytime KS hits a target I'm not currently targeting, I will kill one fairy until all the magic in this world is gone.

[torpid fiber]

I suspect the answer was they cooked too hard on wanting to tie it to blade flurry

[neat heron]

Can someone kindly explain me the rotation of outlaw or tell where is an updated guide?

[covert kestrel]

#outlaw-faq

[wintry solar]

I bet the answer is they wanted that LoL ult that people have been wanting.

Or whatever it was

[frail veldt]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[torpid fiber]

watching rwf and I almost feel like dimensius would be a decent outlaw fight if the fight wasn't how it is, a ton of constant dps checks with cleave benefits that they have to meet

[fathom bramble]

imagine if trickster was as good as it was last season

[torpid fiber]

But everything else about the fight is so ass that it's unplayable

[wintry solar]

S2 trickster with new KS but it deals prio

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-my-kingdom-come-gif-22105215

[vivid vessel]

outlaw might have been playable

oh well

devs legit

doubled ks cd

ok

good

gg guys

work done

what about all the trickster interactions that relied on killing spree you say ?

cant hear you sorry

[wintry solar]

The KS buff comes from the extra 10 talents in midnight

Dw

[fathom bramble]

should have amped the % reduced CD on disorienting strikes

or something

[torpid fiber]

I'm expecting either a complete spec rework in midnight or 0 changes whatsoever

[wintry solar]

I'm wagering 0 changes tbh. Not because I'm dooming in general but I'm just not entirely sure what they'd do.

All the feedback are spec fixes

[cinder relic]

Its been awhile since rogue has gotten large sweeping changes so

I'm expecting midnight to have some

[torpid fiber]

Yeah, it's either "the reason rogue has had so few changes this expac is because they've been working on full reworks and so large changes that will only last a few patches aren't worth it" or "the reason rogue has had so few changes this expac is that they have no clue what to do with it"

[muted iron]

"We'd like to announce that rogue has been removed from the game due to xyz. We have however introduced a 3rd DH spec that we're sure will appeal to rogue players "

[cinder relic]

I mean idk I don't think rogue needs a lot, I don't really want it to have a rework totally lol

[wintry solar]

There was a lot of bug fixes this expac

[torpid fiber]

I don't think rogue needs a lot either

outlaw feels like it's endlessly 5 or fewer changes/fixes away from being pretty much perfect

[vivid vessel]

only cause they just created a bunch that they never fixed in df

[vivid vessel]

yep

so frustrating

[muted chasm]

if im still rocking 2/2 for tier - is it best to just stay fatebound for KIR for the whole raid? it just feels awkward

[wintry solar]

I think blizz conditioned us over the past 20 years to expect changes every expac and it bit them in the butt

[torpid fiber]

It's always like "if they gave a dev a week to fix outlaw the spec would be perfect" and then they never do

[vivid vessel]

:)

[wintry solar]

Because even though I really enjoyed tww, I was disappointed in outlaw even though I enjoy how it currently is

[torpid fiber]

I get that there's not enough time to give every spec a dev for a week though

[gaunt phoenix]

soul hunters and possible soulbinder/araz i would old 4pc trickster

[vivid vessel]

they have enpuogh time to rework mage every week so idk

[torpid fiber]

frost mage got the heroic week nerf this tier tbf so I feel vaguely bad for them

[muted chasm]

If i old 4pc is it worth to go back to HO or should i stick with KIR?

[gaunt phoenix]

with old tier its about the same

[torpid fiber]

Blizzard really just hates flat damage profile uptime specs

[wintry solar]

I feel bad for them in the sense that if it were any other class besides DH I'd be supportive and root for them.

[craggy quiver]

We expecting anything tuning after race?

For us

[gaunt phoenix]

No

[wintry solar]

20% to Sinister Strike

[vivid vessel]

bf nerf maybe

[torpid fiber]

I feel actual empathy for frost mages because I know how it feels to get nerfed for no reason

[fathom bramble]

45% to ambush

so kir can play improved ambush

[torpid fiber]

4000% to blade rush

[vivid vessel]

fuck you lok

i dont wanna press ambush

leave me alone

[craggy quiver]

I forgot blade rush exist

[wintry solar]

Nerf to Ghostly Strike initial hit

[fathom bramble]

blade rush swaps spots in the tree with CTO

no other changes

[wintry solar]

Wtf lol

[torpid fiber]

fth swap with quick shot 🤔

[craggy quiver]

Buff cto

Pls

[wintry solar]

Crackshot and Precise Shots swap places

[torpid fiber]

y'all would not have survived with sl cto istg

[wintry solar]

Imp Adr is a captone

[hollow portal]

As long as the nameless one remains the dev of rogue, I don't think we'll see any radical changes.

[wintry solar]

No, GSW is deleted and imp imp adr takes its place

[fathom bramble]

improved improved adrenaline rush improvement: Adrenaline rush now has 2 charges and grants 15% increased damage while active

[gaunt phoenix]

oh boe belt is cheap asf now

[wintry solar]

Lok and his charges

[frank finch]

yea i bought one socketed for 65k

solo i need a way to sim the all vers boe

[torpid fiber]

Tbf it'd work

[craggy quiver]

I bought the heavy vers ring

[torpid fiber]

ADR charges are a simple change that would make a real difference, it's not some crackpot pet change

[fathom bramble]

it's kind of astonishing to me that 2 charges of AR has been a relevant suggestion for helping outlaw be good in prog since legion

one day we will get it

[wintry solar]

I'd be on board if adr uptime wasn't so high already

[fathom bramble]

it also currently wouldn't buff the spec at all in the places where it is already strong

[torpid fiber]

This is why it's such a good change, though

It doesn't increase the ceiling much, it just helps with the floor

[hollow portal]

Boe Belt should be more versa than crit, right?

[gaunt phoenix]

it would let you vanish AR GS for 6/6 coins

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[wintry solar]

True

[fathom bramble]

of course in versions of outlaw where AR uptime was low it would have instead served to let us move our very low burst dynamically to fit any fight times

which is something reasonable for low burst specs to have

especially when your CD timings are slightly random

[wintry solar]

If I were to have 2 adr charges, that's how I personally would want it to be used for.

But fatebound being a thing I'm sure thered be weird cheese or something

[torpid fiber]

Sure but idc

[vivid vessel]

i mean that doesnt matter much

its like vanish

[torpid fiber]

Yeah

[vivid vessel]

sure you have optimal ways to use it

but you can use it differnetly cause its on charges

hold it for damage amps

[civic zephyr]

first boss mythic - how frowned upon is it to ignore add and just hit boss the whole time?

[vivid vessel]

downtime

etc

[torpid fiber]

Imagine playing trickster with 1 vanish charge 💀

[vivid vessel]

you c ant hit the boss the whole time he goes away

adds are in the way bettween you and the boss

if the adds arent dead when the wall reach them you die

[civic zephyr]

i cant grappling hook cloak through everything / reshi wrap?

[timid idol]

bruh

i forgot about daily reset

[vivid vessel]

ye grapple to the adds cuh

[timid idol]

and i was in a +2 on an alt

ts sucks balls

[civic zephyr]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TBfqMCgKJdpmA1xk?fight=2&view=replay&position=0

[vivid vessel]

ye what

[civic zephyr]

he got a 100 parse

[vivid vessel]

and

the adds are legit 2 targets

you will get a better parse hitting the adds lol

[civic zephyr]

i seeeee

ok ty, that makes sense! havent done the boss yet... assuming they get grouped up and dont die too quick then i think it would be ok

[vivid vessel]

they are in your way anyway

no reason not to hit them idk

[civic zephyr]

yeah but downtime travelling to do an obstacle or go through and just keep 100% uptime

when everyone else that doesnt get punished

can do adds

[vivid vessel]

you will lose the same amount of time doing it all in once or twice tho

[civic zephyr]

ok, your way wont get me in trouble too

plus youre the better player

so i will listen

[vivid vessel]

i mean it wont matter anywya

the adds are a non issue

but its 2 targets

so

theorically

its more damage

:)

[civic zephyr]

i havent done the fight yet, im preparing but yeah that makes sense

ty btw!

[vivid vessel]

maybe in the future

when they die in one gcd

but for now

i have been able to send a full vanish window +

on it

which is def worth the damage

if you play for damage anyway

[civic zephyr]

ok cool, i have no clue what to expect, i assume dks will group them, but yeah, big damage is the goal!

[vivid vessel]

yep

your dk grip one into the other

[gaunt phoenix]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[hollow portal]

We bet on what talent they will put in? xd

[frank finch]

wait

[tender wedge]

BROADSIDE

[frank finch]

wat

yea thats our rework

midnight

[vivid vessel]

hm

apex talent

hopefully it rework ks

[tender wedge]

killing spree spree where you fire a barrage of gunshots then dash to another target and fire another barrage of gunshots then dash to another target and fire a barrage of gunshots over 12 seconds (reduced by haste)

[wintry solar]

Hopefully it makes uhuh grant adr

[wintry solar]

Is this really real?

It's hard to believe imo

[hollow portal]

It's real, a Spanish streamer just interviewed him.

[wintry solar]

I bet it'll be on Supercharger

Oh I'm dumb. Had spec and class tree mixed up

[cedar kernel]

tbh

this thing is

what i thinking about for midnight

[wintry solar]

Saturday can't come fast enough

[cedar kernel]

getting BR and KS is

a heaven

then no more out of energy by luck

[muted iron]

^ that's just fixed by 3 more points in class tree to go Vigor tho

[cedar kernel]

the talent tree i might concern about 2 points of leth

and the last point is for shiv maybe? for better utility in M+

its too early to talk about that i think

but i rly wish we have spare point to get BR

i miss this spell

[torpid fiber]

It's really bad rn

We wouldn't take it even with spare points

[cedar kernel]

oh

[knotty abyss]

3 point = ho + kir?

[cedar kernel]

well then i am wrong

[torpid fiber]

Iirc the number is that it needs like a 1000% damage buff for br to be decent

[wintry solar]

Let's not get too excited. It's more than likely something that's completely passive like 3% dmg when adr is active

[wintry solar]

Probably

I think you only need 2 points to get 2fth

[latent belfry]

how do yall feel about outlaw this season so far

[wintry solar]

Idr the logistics of what it'd take

[wintry solar]

If "fine" was a spec

[cedar kernel]

i am wondering how does the apex talent would be like

[latent belfry]

am i crazy or was it way better last season

[wintry solar]

It was

[wintry solar]

Your gsw build may happen >.>

[cedar kernel]

does it add new talent or just change some old talent

[wintry solar]

Sounds like it changes a talent

[cedar kernel]

yea i am thinking about do they change GSW

[latent belfry]

i feel like i got spoiled last season when we got to play HO everywhere

[cedar kernel]

just like i said GSW kinda being invisible there

[wintry solar]

There's honestly not telling what could happen. I just get the feeling it won't change anything in terms of gameplay.

[cedar kernel]

i think we only can know until beta

[random obsidian]

what other class/spec would need as much work as rogue

[cedar kernel]

CN server dont have beta server

so err

[random obsidian]

damage tuning aside, i do feel like we're very lacking in terms of utility (in m+)

[wintry solar]

4 points for the specialization tree, where the new “apex” talents will appear. Of these:
2 will enhance existing abilities
1 will modify an ability entirely

Okay this is better

[knotty abyss]

we got like dmg reduction or cast speed reduction but not really noticable

[random obsidian]

they're both heavily lackluster honestly

[knotty abyss]

might need something like monk debuff

both help but really not anyone care

[random obsidian]

well, right now the only thing we bring to the table in m+ is damage, and anytime we're not doing top damage we're kind of useless compared to most other specs, no actual crowd control, no noticeable raid buff, shroud has become kinda w/e

going into midnight i'd rather get more useful stuff that won't rely only on tuning

[frank finch]

we actually have an advantage gaining tp's in class tree

alot of classes already select all off abilities

or am i bugging

[dawn talon]

mystic touch sucks in keys anyway

we just need to have actual stops

instead of aoe blind which just doesn't work on a bunch of mobs

[keen belfry]

so this basically means

no more 1fth in keys

[wintry solar]

Depends on how they do it.

[keen belfry]

well

duh

Thank you popo.

[wintry solar]

:)

[keen belfry]

i was hyped for this announce until what u just said popo

[cedar kernel]

wtf awang ur profile pic camping Terroist

[keen belfry]

would be sick to get vigor maybe?

[wintry solar]

4 points for the specialization tree, where the new “apex” talents will appear. Of these:
2 will enhance existing abilities
1 will modify an ability entirely

Though it sounds like it's exclusively for apex talents

[keen belfry]

yeah maybe but it depends onhow they do it Popo.

[wintry solar]

I just told you

Monkey boy

Oo oo aa aa

[keen belfry]

i remember coming back to this chat and seeing Popo trying to alpha some guy in the chat

it was so funny

[keen belfry]

it was my friend i found in a random DM lmaooo it was so funny

[wintry solar]

Alpha some guy?

[cedar kernel]

they have the initiative

[wintry solar]

Elaborate

[keen belfry]

it was just like youre doing now

like copy paste

[wintry solar]

It's from the wowhead post

[cedar kernel]

i am kinda curious what talent they are going to change

Maybe Super KS

or Super BR

[keen belfry]

super super jks

[high parrot]

is there an outlaw cook going on rn that specs into mastery?

[cedar kernel]

does this jks is that jks

[hollow portal]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/spend-10-more-points-across-three-trees-and-new-talents-in-midnight-378287

[desert tendon]

Ho kir inc

Kappa

[cedar kernel]

yea i think so

HO KIR enhanced

[quaint mauve]

what if we have an uncapped aoe spender where you shoot an exploding cannon ball outve a cannon

and like

during crackshot u shoot bte and dispatch along with the cannon ball

they need to hire me

holy shit

[tidal wave]

Welp... Subs are too good on Forgeweaver

[cinder relic]

Ooooo

[agile quiver]

class tree getting points too...
vigor + supercharger?

[wintry solar]

If they're not locked by the gates

[fathom bramble]

imagine if they move the gates and you just log in to not being able to talent all of our talents

and get forced to respec and re-earn supercharger

[agile quiver]

they might be, but also that could be troll on some specs

where some of the talent points would be literally useless

[fathom bramble]

it's not like an extra talent point before our first gate does anything

[wintry solar]

Yeah

I'm sure some specs it's huge though

Classes*

[fathom bramble]

actually we already put 2 extra points before our 1st gate

our 2nd gate is the one that is super weird

[wintry solar]

I wonder when we'll see what talents get enhanced and which will get modified

Not for a while

[cinder relic]

My money is on killing spree

Make KS work like wake where wake gives wings

Yk

[agile quiver]

enhanced talent: Slice and Dice

[wintry solar]

There's a chance we get a new talent and it's also enhanced

[agile quiver]

from the way the hero talent part was described, they're just adding a 4th branch between top and bottom, right?

[violet ferry]

Enhanced Grappling Hook: 3 charges instead of 2

[fathom bramble]

sounds like it

[wintry solar]

I don't even use all 4 charges as fatebound

[fathom bramble]

or 1 line at the bottom I guess

doesn't really matter where when we just take it all anyway

[wintry solar]

Imagine we lose CDG just to get it back

[agile quiver]

CDG?

[mossy shell]

I still feel slow since season 1, we need more grapples.

[wintry solar]

Coup

[agile quiver]

ah, never seen it abbreviated like that

[wintry solar]

Sprint has a 5 second CD

[agile quiver]

and lets us run across water

[wintry solar]

No I mean rn

I'm exaggerating but it's super short

[fathom bramble]

Restless blades can now critically strike

[agile quiver]

so what, you cast one finisher and vanish is up again?

[fathom bramble]

Cut to the chase also grants 0.5 seconds of adrenaline rush per combo point spend

Blade flurry can target 1 additional in combat enemy up to 30 yards away.

[zinc briar]

Whats prio with full cp if u have ks and the double grace?

[wintry solar]

KS

KS #1

Out of subt

[fathom bramble]

Spending combo points has a 1% chance per combo point spent to allow you to cast Stealth while in combat

[violet fable]

Man the fate bound tier set feels so good. How much behind is fate out to trickster in keys honestly

[zinc briar]

Old set feels better 🙁

[wintry solar]

I think it was 5%

[fathom bramble]

I wonder if the apex talents will do anything at all with other talents further up

or if it is exclusively base abilities

[zinc briar]

When y have bad rolls and no energy to ss... U want to reroll

[wintry solar]

I'm taking it at face value and assuming it's just talents

[glossy pewter]

alright, why do I get unstealthed when I take the dimensius gate but the sin rogue in my guild doesn't? am i doing something wrong? does god hate me?

[agile quiver]

devs hate outlaw

[fathom bramble]

subterfuge bug probably

[glossy pewter]

does this happen to all outlaws or just me?

[fathom bramble]

happens to all outlaws

[zinc briar]

It happens to me

[agile quiver]

I assumed it happened to all rogues

[zinc briar]

Assa not?

[agile quiver]

first I've heard it not happening to other specs

[fathom bramble]

pretty sure it only happens while talented into subterfuge

[zinc briar]

Meh.. this game sux

Outlaw will dissappear

[agile quiver]

funny how back asswards it is that outlaw is the only spec that takes subterfuge...

[zinc briar]

Fcking devs

[misty bridge]

so does each hit of SS or ambush have a chance to trigger unseen blade? like with opp/TT could each of the 2/3 strikes trigger an UB? or is it strictly based off of singular cast?

[fathom bramble]

outlaw has had the better vanish for so long that it doesn't really surprise me at all

[gaunt phoenix]

single

[wintry solar]

Because sub and assa have good masteries that benefit from tea

[fathom bramble]

they just added more talents that really reinforce it since dragonflight

[wintry solar]

Not subt tho

That's somewhat new

If we can call df new

[fathom bramble]

a little yeah

previously we basically didn't care which stealth node we took since they didn't actually apply to any of outlaws stealth stuff

and then they just removed the row and replaced it

[wintry solar]

Maybe vanish will be less loaded next expac. Who knows?

[fathom bramble]

although I bet we would have ran subterfuge in shadowlands

if we could

subterfuge would have been good in legion too actually if it worked like it does now

extending other effects by 3/6 seconds

[wintry solar]

Idk. I've always been a subt hater

[agile quiver]

is there a way to see the shadowlands talent trees?

[wintry solar]

And neutral to vanish

[agile quiver]

wowhead's calc doesn't show the old ones

[fathom bramble]

not in game or on wowhead

I'm sure you can find a screenshot or something though

[wintry solar]

Wowdb is broken

[wintry solar]

SL outlaw my beloved

[cedar kernel]

why not MfD

[wintry solar]

That looks like that cringe er/dust build

[tired rune]

Wow that feels like forever ago

[cedar kernel]

i think its more like ER GSW?

Iirc Er dust is GS/MfD

[wintry solar]

Idar

But I loved me some dreadblade action

[misty bridge]

I forgot to mention i was specifically asking about the 2pc reset, because i have noticed i get multiple stacks of UB from 1 cast of ss

so really what i'm asking, could a triple threat proc give 3 stacks of UB?

hell even 4, since its technically 4 strikes of ss

[hasty warren]

don't trash talk this masterclass

[old gull]

[gaunt phoenix]

that's literally the 2pc, when UB hits, it has a 35% chance to just hit again

but you can only ever get 2 from a cast

[wintry solar]

I'm not, I'm trash talking er/dust

[gaunt phoenix]

lol you're good

where is the inbox button on discord it is legit gone now

[hasty warren]

y that's what I said

er shadow dust mfd ?

[fathom bramble]

crazy that almost every row had real competition during SL

it was really just long arms and the shitty utility row that had nothing going on

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont remember removing alacrity in sl

but yea

[fathom bramble]

wasn't dreadblades venthyr shadowdust really good

I swear it was

[gaunt phoenix]

true

now i dont remember if that was df prepatch only

[glossy pewter]

s4 with dflight talents

was so fucking hot

[fathom bramble]

yeah no that was pre patch only

at least only where it really took off

[late swallow]

#outlaw message

@gaunt phoenix re-tagging you in this to make sure you see it

[dawn talon]

do not speak evil into the world

[fathom bramble]

Killing spree now lasts 100% longer and allows you to cast other offensive skills during the duration

[wintry solar]

I think I'm gonna lurk the forums

See if they're cooking anything

[fathom bramble]

there's actually a small number of dreadblades believes before prepatch

wish I could remember how good it simmed at the time

[wintry solar]

They're just cooked. More at 11.

[gaunt phoenix]

Rogue

Next question

[wintry solar]

Favorite iteration of combat

[late swallow]

you a real one

my first toon was a hunter, but rogue was my #2

[upper sage]

is it just me or does the 4set for trickster seem a little bit lackluster... maybe im just prioritizing stuff differently and need to work on that

[hybrid crown]

the dimensius opener is annoying but KS kinda salvages it

I ADR BF KS on the ad then resume my rotation

is that what people are doing

[gaunt phoenix]

its not as good as season 2 set, but ilvl wins eventually

[cinder relic]

I went form resto druid in the first 2 seasons of legion, skipped season 3, came back season 4 on mistweave, and then swapped to rogue, and never looked back

[upper sage]

yeah i mean like fatebound 4set seems better than trickster 4set, i love both specs and know that trickster is our best cleave

[wintry solar]

I started as combat, dk came out and I played both combat and dk since.

With survival hunter sprinkled in here and there

[random geyser]

so why does stealth work for my guildy who is assa rogue and not me on the way in to dimensius?

[late swallow]

resto is a cool place to start ngl -- didn't know you started playing so late

legion was your first time into wow?

[quaint sable]

subterfuge bug

[random geyser]

subtrefuge is causing it to kick us from stealth?

[quaint sable]

ye

[random geyser]

sigh

[quaint sable]

Sin and sub dont play it so they do get a stealth opener

[random geyser]

well i guess they wont fix it if its just outlaw lol

[cinder relic]

I played a few times when I was younger but legion is when I started to actually play endgame

like I leveled thru the panda area in pandaria and like, the goblin area in cata

[humble temple]

does anyone have the issue where sometimes vanish is not granting subterfuge?

[late swallow]

haha yeah I noobed my way through cata onwards before getting semi serious in BFA

wish I played legion though

the one xpac I missed besides slands

[tight kernel]

Does the outlaw win?

[weary fog]

are u breaking vanish with a trinket

[humble temple]

no

[gaunt phoenix]

link log

[humble temple]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2DBcMaxbqNHQgGvA?fight=31&type=casts&source=1&start=10521388&end=10530823&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24223855754.0.0.Rogue%24false%24115192

[gaunt phoenix]

netherprism

[humble temple]

is that the passive proc?

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont think so

[humble temple]

because it's not bound

[gaunt phoenix]

macro?

[humble temple]

no, my vanish isnt bound, but maybe im just pushing it before?

before i push BTE

[gaunt phoenix]

if it's macro'd to bte it will break vanish

[humble temple]

it's not macro'd to anything but i guess i'm pushing it prior to my global

did not realize it broke vanish

[glass mortar]

u cant press it before u break stealth yea

[humble temple]

mystery solved ty

[cinder relic]

I literally got motion sickness playing the game in cata

[torpid fiber]

what can theoretically be happening is:

1. you press vanish at ~300ms before the gcd
2. you press bte at ~200ms before the gcd. It doesn't go off yet, but because it's in the spellqueue window it gets queued up to go off as soon as possible (this is good)
3. You press netherprism at 100ms before the gcd. It's off the gcd, so it goes off, which breaks the vanish.
4. The gcd occurs, and you have bte queued, so bte goes off

the logs only record when casts actually happen, not when you press the button, so it's impossible to know this from logs

[cinder relic]

and then in mop I didn't 'get it'

and then by the start of BFA I got active in here

and then the rest is history

[humble temple]

ye, i'll just be more conscious of it happening and just be sure to push it after i'm confidently in subterfuge

[torpid fiber]

yeah

[humble temple]

appreciate it

[pure folio]

@vivid vessel did u upload the new vod

oo u did

[tight kernel]

Answer is no

[violet ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/computer-says-no-carol-beer-no-way-little-britain-trendizisst-gif-14015902623456325888

[dawn talon]

wow is one of those games

where everyone sucks

for a while

like hopeful is the fastest learner ive ever seen in terms of wow

and he was pretty dogshit for like a tier and a half

[carmine ferry]

Why doesn't KIR builds use Ambush?

[dawn talon]

energy inefficient

[gaunt phoenix]

without ambush talents it's just no bueno

[cinder relic]

@vivid vessel nevermind sin on soulhunters is fake

[dawn talon]

the button sucks without the investment into improved ambush, hidden opportunity, and audacity

[carmine ferry]

I see, so just use SS during subterfuge. That might explain why I run out of energy sometimes

[wintry solar]

That'll do it

[misty bridge]

Do you think if they applied all the cp generator talents/buffs (Lethality, Heavy hitter, Broadsides, Surprising Strikes, Deadly Precision) to KS, since it actually generates cps, would be too OP?

[trail cape]

Is the cancel stealth macro opener still a thing?

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[trail cape]

Don’t see anything about it in the faq

[quaint mauve]

i feel kinda bad man

[frank finch]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[quaint mauve]

i feel like everytime i get coup i have nothing to build with

and just have to send both

[frank finch]

!mouseover

[quaint mauve]

for nothing

[quaint mauve]

what r u tryna macro

[frank finch]

mouseover bte

[quaint mauve]

oh? /cast [@mouse,harm] Between The Eyes ???? i think this is almost it

[teal garnet]

Can u wound poison the Mini boss in HoA?

[cinder relic]

Ya

[teal garnet]

need to remember to swap psns then

[frank finch]

will this cast bte on mousover on a far target while i have a close target targeted getting cp's?

[quaint mauve]

uhm…. @cinder relic help

[quaint mauve]

i don’t see why not?

try it on the dummies

[frank finch]

in raid xd

[quaint mauve]

LOL

i would ask chatgpt to make sure it’s written properly

im not at my computer

[frank finch]

ya thx for helping

[cinder relic]

Uh

Idk

Just give it a try LOL

Go to dummies

[quaint mauve]

he’s in raid xd

bro wasn’t prepped

[tired rune]

[cinder relic]

[frank finch]

chatgpt is king

ty kings

[quaint mauve]

guys…

im having fun on destro lock

….

[cedar kernel]

does zac here

[quaint mauve]

maybe

[cedar kernel]

i think he go to sleep

nvm i have some question there

[formal veldt]

So with the KiR build, we never touch ambush, its always SS?

[quaint mauve]

yup

you get no procs off
ambush

uhm wrong chat? :p

[cinder relic]

But also wrong

[frail veldt]

yes

thats the point haha

hold right click

[fathom bramble]

where tails

[cedar kernel]

i found a very good BM tank

but he has some question want to ask zacs friend

[keen belfry]

!freaky

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into :ks: KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• :ks: KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[tight kernel]

Zac you kill forge fuck?

[willow portal]

what ilvl drops from hardmode (hero pieces) and how hard is it really with about 705?

[somber mantle]

Hero 1/6, so 694. It's fairly easy, if you know what to do. For deathless you have to play very clean, tho.

[midnight granite]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[midnight granite]

where is weapon swap

[visual trout]

we did it!

[elder phoenix]

lol i cant farm that anymore

given that i got a mythic track mace from vault

Gee gee

[quaint mauve]

woah

@keen belfry ru on

gf asleep want to do keys

[keen belfry]

I’m in bed cuh

[quaint mauve]

😓

[keen belfry]

It’s sleeping time I’ve veen a degen last 2 days

[quaint mauve]

can u uhm… get outta bed

iDUDE

[keen belfry]

Must be adult tomorrow

[quaint mauve]

i stayed up

all night like 30 hours straight

and i was tweaking the fuck out in my classes

[keen belfry]

My brain is legit fried right now

[quaint mauve]

like i had an 8 am and then i had to stay until 8 pm bc of a lab

i deadass slept in my car at school between each class

[keen belfry]

I said “do yall think liquid is worried that if they go to bed they will go to sleep”

[quaint mauve]

but i’ve been playing lock… i can perform without even being cognizant

[keen belfry]

Ur cooked

But GN chat I will work 8 hours tomorrow and close out my story thank you

[quaint mauve]

goodluck awang

i get to be a degenerate all weekend

[balmy topaz]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into :ks: KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• :ks: KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[elder phoenix]

!rtb

[ornate heath]

How to use RTB
( HO build)

• Roll on cooldown until you get a 5 buff. If you have 4 total buffs including CTO, you can choose to keep them until 3, it's not an expected dps loss or gain.

( KIR build)

• Has a concept of buffs being preserved through RTB casts after pressing KIR instead of being rolled off.
• Use this weakaura to see how many buffs you "will lose" by pressing RTB (red or blue border).
• Roll if you will lose between 0-2 buffs.
• Roll if you will lose between 3-4 buffs if they are all below ~10s remaining.
• If you KIR a natural 5 buff, wait until buffs approach ~41s remaining before rolling.

The faq elaborates on these rules.

[pastel cedar]

i gave outlaw a bad name in a +7

[quaint sable]

Great sandbagging

[pastel cedar]

ty king

[lone spear]

i think streets is a heavy loss to not run ghostly

did >5% less from what i normally do in the 12

@gaunt phoenix how have your keys been w/o ghostly?

[stark cloud]

is this only veteran rank this season or still possible to obtain in champion?

[tender wedge]

Only goes to veteran

The ones on the vendor are adventurer now

[safe pasture]

does anyone know wtf causees you to stealth someitmes when you try to mount in dawnbreaker

its super screwing me over

[young prism]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[frail veldt]

p sure he plays KiR

which never drops ghostly

[lone spear]

you mean fatebound?

[lone spear]

cause KiR can drop ghostly

[frail veldt]

no I mean KiR

it "can"

but its very very troll to

HO can drop it more easily

its much better to drop 1pt fth

[frail veldt]

for KiR

[lone spear]

its not that troll

[frail veldt]

6% ST AND 3% aoe

[lone spear]

solo said before that he was probs gonna drop it

cause 1fth is cringe

[frail veldt]

yeah solo really hatse 1pt fth

but if youre gona do that

just play HO

tbh

[lone spear]

ho is like 10% behind tho

so doesnt make up the diff

[frail veldt]

its 6%

which is almost the same amount behind as non GS KiR lol

you could literally use ambush as KiR

and lose less damage

than dropping GS

[radiant orbit]

wondering fellas, does outlaw sim high or am i really fucking up that badly in ST

[frail veldt]

I mean I HAAAATE GS

but outlaws ST is already so bad rn

I just cant afford to drop it

dont want to lose to your tank on a boss

[pure folio]

it sims correctly

[lone spear]

not being rude, but idk where ur info is from

dropped it in streets and my ST was fine, obvs lower

[frail veldt]

the info that outlaws ST is bad as trickster

I mean its just objective

trickster sims very low in ST

[lone spear]

i mean, yea, but 6% wont put u below a tank

not only that, but the faq is saying ho beind by 10% depending on targets f

[frail veldt]

well some tank specs do like 3 mil in ST

so

yeah HO is behind 10% in 8 target patchwerk

but in dslice its 6% behind KiR

I think dropping GS is like a 4-5% in dslice for KiR

so really only 1-2% ahead of HO

non GS definitely feels better dont get me wrong

but its a pretty reasonable dps loss unfortunately

[lone spear]

i think is probably fine to drop in the 3 boss dungeons, the loss might be fine

it is a loss no matter what for sure

but consistency is also a factor i think

shruge too early to tell for sure i guess

[frail veldt]

Yeah I guess id redact saying its troll if you also dont think HO is troll

and personally I still dont even think HO is troll

people gave up on it too quickly imo

I think it performs better with mechanics than KiR does

ESP in ST

leme actually sim GS vs non GS cuz its been a while

could have improved with recent apl stuff too

[frail veldt]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/udhkdApuDGprMZ5KcszZMC

wouldya look at that!

thats way closer than 6% st and 3% aoe

this almost seems sus

lol

[lone spear]

hmm

the boss damage looks really low

[frail veldt]

thats like a .6% loss in ST

[lone spear]

just in general

[frail veldt]

yeah it does

leme grab the most recent apl from simc

sec

[willow portal]

raid st would still be kir tho right?

i would like to play ho but i dont want to do less dam

[frail veldt]

well whether youll do less damage comes down to which one you play better

[alpine yoke]

Is there any good outlaw guide out on youtube? Didnt find one yet

[frail veldt]

there is not sadly

theres some good streamers out there to watch like zac

[frail veldt]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fHwiBsKnHqHmXmQEzveZgx/simc

same result again

I think its just that summary at the top thats wrong

[lone spear]

yea idk aye

maybe its aight

[frail veldt]

hey maybe non GS is actually insane

[willow portal]

i mean i probably play both badly

:)

[frail veldt]

esp since dslice generally tends to underestimate pack size

[frail veldt]

well then youll probably play HO better haha

I mean just try em both

doesnt hurt

well I guess only problem is HO has different haste req

[willow portal]

i tried ho when i started the last weeks of last season

[frail veldt]

when solo wakes up he can clear it up im sure haha

[willow portal]

but it will still work with 20% wont it?

[frail veldt]

yeah

just wasting some haste

[willow portal]

how much is ho behind on full st?

fatebound raid build

[frail veldt]

6% I believe

[willow portal]

thats a lot imo

[cedar kernel]

i am trying to make a group myselfs

to do some pushing

[frail veldt]

how far are you behind your sim?

[cedar kernel]

our goal will be like following zac

but we are wondering about warrior spec

[frail veldt]

tank

[cedar kernel]

dunno choosing a arm or fury

bc we got monk

[frail veldt]

tank

lol

yeah both arms and fury arent great atm unfort

[cedar kernel]

mewo we are monk bm/cat/law

rn

we are looking for a shammy healer

and a dps

[young prism]

does anyone have a wa to track coupe*

[willow portal]

[young prism]

like is ready to about to be ready?

[frail veldt]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[frail veldt]

I prefer the one thats embedded in zac's group

[young prism]

it is not there

[frail veldt]

I just grabbed it yesterday

[cedar kernel]

avenger we are

[frail veldt]

def there

[young prism]

let me recheck then

[frail veldt]

import all of zac's group

youll find it under the misc folder or whatever

then just pull it out of his group and just delete the rest

[willow portal]

basically on sim dps right

[frail veldt]

oh youre doing fiiiine

what you complaining about

[willow portal]

kir annoying

[frail veldt]

then dont play it haha

[willow portal]

i am pretty sure i dont play the rolling part correctly i just hope that luxthos wa does most of the logic

[unkempt ice]

either my breakdown is different cuz i have better gear, or my cudgle dont do as much dmg cant even see it on first page anymore whne i hover my details

[cedar kernel]

mewo i promise i will slain them all, i just need some time there, i will brought our RH glory back to the place

😡

[frail veldt]

at the end of the key its usually only like 3-4%

since its adventurer track now its not quite as strong as last season

unless you get the lucky one from the satchel

[unkempt ice]

its only around 2-2.3% for me now

[frail veldt]

make sure youre wiggling around

so it hits every mob

if the pack is 8+

remember it hits once per mob per restealth/vanish