outlaw

[buoyant cosmos]

can make rings / neck

[honest yarrow]

I got the crit vers neck from uhh

[frail veldt]

Yeah I mean you can always choose to use 2 + 2 if you want

[honest yarrow]

I forget

The one that gives like 5k+ vers

[buoyant cosmos]

priory?

[honest yarrow]

Yeah

[buoyant cosmos]

or raid

[honest yarrow]

Priory

[gaunt phoenix]

let's move this to dms, i think i know what is happening, but it will just confuse ppl here

[late swallow]

Bro is getting dm’ed by solo

[gaunt phoenix]

essentially if you sim new tier with HO Sleight and you dont change to LD, there is a sim issue where it looks worse than expected

[honest yarrow]

Ty. I will take another look when I get home from work

Thanks for answers all I won’t clog anymore

[glass mortar]

wait solo if u sim that does it just perma spam roll the whole fight since it never hits 5 buff and its HO using sleight rules

[gaunt phoenix]

something like that

i've fixed it internally but need to push it out with this fatebound stuff

but need to see exactly what they are looking at

[late swallow]

Thanks for the update. Keep us posted

[desert tendon]

DMs with solo

😳

[craggy quiver]

Yea gonna need a pin for new coin stuff

My brain is too smol

[glass mortar]

its not finalized or it would be a pin already prob

we just got leaked tc

[gaunt phoenix]

it is a bit annoying to explain with brevity

[late swallow]

What about with levity?

[glass mortar]

i imagine a large part of the gain period is just timing ghostly with vanishes and this bte thing is cherry on top

[craggy quiver]

This tier has been the tier with the most macros I have ever had lol

[gaunt phoenix]

look a blocked message

[tepid skiff]

@vivid vessel now uve got me in the zone to crash out. so im watchin rwf u know what i hate

i just irrationally hate pushback mechanics where u have to coordinate like 5 movement cds to avoid getting pushed off the map

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-blocked-users-discord-gif-gif-17964926

[gaunt phoenix]

ya exactly

[tepid skiff]

idk why, cant explain it, i just hate that as a boss mechanic

[gaunt phoenix]

lmao

[desert tendon]

Razageth be like

[buoyant cosmos]

Shadow priest mains hate this one simple trick

[desert tendon]

they dont

they have rescues now

[buoyant cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/mercy-overwatch-come-here-gif-14280244

[vivid vessel]

haha, I love push back mecahnics cause i just grapple fr fr

[glass mortar]

its ok. denathrius opened the floodgate to this because there was a way for priests and pallies to live the intermission without dragons

[buoyant cosmos]

evokers be like

[glass mortar]

it involved an engineering consumable or tinker that shared a cd with pots tho

[desert tendon]

denath was fine

[glass mortar]

idr the exact name

[desert tendon]

cuz you used the pushbacks to do mecanics

[red zinc]

Lizzard try to make a hard boss without push back or polarity mechanics challenge

[desert tendon]

u need them

[red zinc]

(Impossible)

[glass mortar]

well push backs have become a bit of an arms race now right

with dracthyr as a race

basically every spec in the game can cancel vanilla normal knockbacks now

just not pallies i guess

use bubble bozos

i will say i hope one day blizzard finds the tech to fix grapple having no path available if you travel 1 nanometer off the edge of these boss platforms

even if u are way above them

but based on grapple never being fixed in the open world i think the technology simply doesnt exist 🫡

[random stirrup]

Priest still has to be dracthyr right

[desert tendon]

wdym

you use rescue

fact that rescue exists

[vivid vessel]

you know what i love tho @tepid skiff, bumps, i love insta canceling a bump frame perfect with grapple, feels crazy no cap !

[desert tendon]

Imagine killjaeden but with evoker

[random stirrup]

I’m somewhat convinced these pushback mechanics are literally just to make evoker utility insane

[tepid skiff]

yep agree w that

[desert tendon]

bumps

[vivid vessel]

• my raid leader is a caster and he complains everytime there is a bump

so thats a bonus

[glass mortar]

it helps more then just evoker

dk mobility is improved anytime the mechanic ur using mobility for is a knockback

[red zinc]

Dont think they are

Mayb wrong

Echo commentators said there were no dracs outside of evokers

[random stirrup]

To cancel super big knockbacks I mean

The Dimensius one won’t kill you if you position right

[frail veldt]

a caster complaining about anything in TWW is insane

I was playing disc/shadow and it literally felt like I had mechanics turned off

you just stand there

and do nothing

[violet ferry]

We are so back

[glass mortar]

im considering gearing a caster this season

my devoker is already 660 ilvl but man

ele looks like its fun af rn

[frail veldt]

ele is cool

[glass mortar]

and ele fantasy way better then dracthyrs ngl

[frail veldt]

evokers are just too ugly for me

[red zinc]

Does ele actually have st in keys now or nah

[stiff vector]

I was thinking of gearing my shammy as an alt, ele was fun on ptr

[frail veldt]

I hate the twink dragon aesthetic

[stiff vector]

ye its ST is pretty good

[frail veldt]

If they had let me be a dracthyr like the guards in valdrakken id be all on it

[sterile bough]

im hitting dummies in dorongal at 4m and can't break it anyone got a good rotation guide I can follow?

[stiff vector]

I usually main shaman or rogue, but outlaw is just way more fun and I had how ssquishy shaman is, so usually I just play it when I need to like in s1

[violet ferry]

[desert tendon]

ur cool

[frail veldt]

the two dracthyr body types are almost indistinguishable

very dumb

[glass mortar]

ye

nah the model is a huge L

its part of why i ditched my evoker after last expac

i only rlly play it in delves and to occasionaly heal a key now

[stiff vector]

evoker looks goofy af

[frail veldt]

healing as pres in m+ feels so weird

the movement requirement on their abilities is pretty tough

[late swallow]

Beefy blackwing lair dracthyr would go hard

[stiff vector]

ive still never played a single second of dragon

[frail veldt]

like you play with a hunter/boomy and they stand at 45 yards

and you just have to watch them die

[frail veldt]

right?

fuck aug

[late swallow]

They should add the skinny asmongold kul tiran as well

[frail veldt]

they should have made a tank dragon

[desert tendon]

my mate was prevoker main

how many deplete

[frail veldt]

black and bronze magic

would have gone

SO HARD

but they flopped

[desert tendon]

we got from the movements

[frail veldt]

yeeeeeup

[late swallow]

look what they took from us

[desert tendon]

what s the sspell already?

verdant embrace?

[frail veldt]

yeah

thats the dash heal

and its liek their core button that empowers other shit

[desert tendon]

dogshit

[frail veldt]

like dream breath

[stiff vector]

apparently thats not really true anymore with the tier set/hero tree they play because the chrono flame cleave heal has a big range and dream breath hot does nothing in their m+ build(just use it to activate other shit)

[desert tendon]

at least in raid you verdant embrace on yourself

[frail veldt]

thats good

[desert tendon]

but in m+

[frail veldt]

but they still only have like 30 yard range right?

on their heals

[glass mortar]

yes

[frail veldt]

yeah

...

[glass mortar]

the range thing is very very cringe

especially with extended range dps in keys

[stiff vector]

like you prob shouldnt be playing in africa still with a pres, but its a lot better now from what drohgoh was saying in PTR keys

[glass mortar]

but thats always been the case

[frail veldt]

that was an interesting decision by blizzard

[frail veldt]

yeah imagine dps playing around their healer

lulululul

[stiff vector]

lets not refer to ranged players as real DPS players

youre only a real dps player if youre a melee enjoyer (and you auto play around your healer by default )

[hallow spoke]

!shiv

!tea

[ornate heath]

• Breaking Vanish with a trinket will not grant Subterfuge.
• Recasting Stealth while Subterfuge is already active will not grant you UHUH or Crackshot bonuses until Subterfuge expires. (fixed as of 11.1)
• Casting Vanish at the same frame that a previous Subterfuge ends will cause Crackshot to not activate.
• After breaking Stealth, there is about a 100ms delay before the effects of Subterfuge happen. You will thus lose about 100ms of adr

[gaunt phoenix]

!tea

[ornate heath]

• Breaking Vanish with a trinket will not grant Subterfuge.
• Recasting Stealth while Subterfuge is already active will not grant you UHUH or Crackshot bonuses until Subterfuge expires. (fixed as of 11.1)
• Casting Vanish at the same frame that a previous Subterfuge ends will cause Crackshot to not activate.
• After breaking Stealth, there is about a 100ms delay before the effects of Subterfuge happen. You will thus lose about 100ms of adr

[gaunt phoenix]

that seems wrong

[hallow spoke]

xD wrong channel but hmmm

[frail veldt]

lil bit

also I thought they fixed the subt delay

[gaunt phoenix]

i havent tested that since like DF S3 beta

ptr

[frail veldt]

zac told me they did

[late swallow]

!sim

[stiff vector]

idk sometimes I feel like my bte goes off omega insta, other times I feel a slight delay sometimes

[frail veldt]

thats different

there was a bug where you didnt get the effects of subt for 100ms after stealth breaking

[stiff vector]

o ye

[frail veldt]

so if you were to macro /cancelaura stealth and /cast bte

youd put bte on cd

[stiff vector]

idk havent had that happened to me in a long time IIRC

[frail veldt]

it never really happened outside of a macro

it was relevant for fatebound

where you intentionally would cancelaura stealth

and then adr

to avoid the double jeopardy bug

[timid zephyr]

any1 know what ivll we need to be at to trade up carved for rune

crests

[buoyant cosmos]

imorph

[frail veldt]

nah

then im just ugly to everyone else

no aura

0/10

[buoyant cosmos]

lolol

[frail veldt]

are they adding body sliders?

[desert tendon]

ugly

[frail veldt]

I count more than two body types here right?

I think they look cool

[vivid vessel]

booba slider you say?

@late swallow

[desert tendon]

they looks like fucking avatar

[frail veldt]

@late swallow

[desert tendon]

[frail veldt]

they do

[desert tendon]

@late swallow

[frail veldt]

better than a dwarf

[vivid vessel]

where did you get that picutre mewo

[frail veldt]

another discord lol

[desert tendon]

i kinda liked the new dward customisation

[vivid vessel]

fuck you

[late swallow]

booba + bulge slider would go so hard

[frail veldt]

I think theyre streaming

[late swallow]

new race is ugly ngl

[desert tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-jake-sully-you-know-i-will-i-will-sam-worthington-gif-27050962

[late swallow]

avatar porcupines? what the fuck?

[desert tendon]

literaly

[frail veldt]

theyre supposed to be like bats

[desert tendon]

BTW

[frail veldt]

I always like the zargarmarsh aesthetic

so im down for it

[desert tendon]

@glass mortar

you know my bias in wow right?

https://x.com/NerfTankTV/status/1958493323829645482

NERF (@NerfTankTV)

Midnight delve companion is Valeera

X · Aug 21, 2025, 11:36 AM

👀

[glass mortar]

they got you again didnt they

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/oceansjonas-bear-in-the-big-blue-house-sniffing-smelling-gif-9077831805310939164

[desert tendon]

they did

[late swallow]

valeera goonguinar

[buoyant cosmos]

Valeera as nemesis

[desert tendon]

ffs

[glass mortar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1166809459901878363.gif?size=128&quality=lossless

see you in midnight bozo

[desert tendon]

why we still cant mog as her

[glass mortar]

nobody escapes

[desert tendon]

why is she wearing fuckiing clothes

[frail veldt]

im watching valeera play rogue right now

[desert tendon]

i did a valeera mog but

cant get that kind of red

[late swallow]

like irl? you cosplayed as valeera?

[desert tendon]

and shapes

i said mog

not cosplay

you dumbie outlaw

[late swallow]

i read what I wanted to hear

[desert tendon]

you read what you wanted to hear

good

i hope you ll see what you wanted to eat

[glass mortar]

be the change u want in the world

🫡

[desert tendon]

i could do a valeera cosplay actually

🤔

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/the-world-would-be-a-better-place-without-me-which-is-why-i-have-to-keep-living-keep-living-meme-gif-the-world-would-be-a-better-place-gif-26721075

[desert tendon]

that s 100% ryu no cap

[late swallow]

nono he was never like that

I don't think he had that level of self awareness

just a bit of a goofy guy

with some weird takes

[desert tendon]

if you re not a goofy guy

you re wasting your life

no cap

[real yew]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[late swallow]

hate to say it, but I agree with you

[desert tendon]

ofc u do

that s why i am saying zac's tierlist is not accurate at all

[torpid heath]

am i the only one who cant stealth on dimensius?

[desert tendon]

Subterfuge is fun

[glass mortar]

nope entering the arena breaks ur stealth and u land with ~1 gcd of crackshot left

enjoy

[gaunt phoenix]

no. it's a bug with subterfuge

[glass mortar]

theres no workaround

[dawn talon]

you can get 3

[desert tendon]

i wonder how much of an impact that actually is

[glass mortar]

other then swapping spec to someone who doesnt care about subterfuge

[torpid heath]

thats why i have a friend playing assas thats stays stealthed?

[gaunt phoenix]

yep

[glass mortar]

if they dont have subterfuge talented yea

[torpid heath]

lol

ok fun

[desert tendon]

subterfuge doesnt let you stealth

[pale pivot]

!gear

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406175771495759952/outlaw.webp

[vague cape]

Here's my personal feedback on rogue in TWW; I hope you guys will begin a discussion about this and blizzard uses our sentiments to inform their choices for rogue in midnight. https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/rogues-in-tww-engineered-frustration/585745 I go over all specs in varying detail.

[chilly atlas]

what the heck is a haranir

[glass mortar]

we met them in the campaign

twice actually

i dont really expect anyone to remember the first time because it lasted like 5 minutes

the undermine campaign had a lot more involvement tho

[buoyant cosmos]

Oh in the spider zone

in the pit

[glass mortar]

they are like primal elf/troll crossovers

yea

a less evolved elf ig u could say

we havent actually met the faction just a handful of them that revealed themselves in the spider zone

i wonder if we find a whole city of them in midnight

[red zinc]

Ye

[late swallow]

Uhhhh eugenics much?

[red zinc]

The second zone is full harranir

[late swallow]

Ok Sydney

[red zinc]

Its weird to me though

[late swallow]

Bro I bet these mfs smell so bad

[red zinc]

That zone thematic wise really just seems like it was supposed to be the last patch of this xpac

I think k’aresh was kind of forced a tiny bit maybe

[buoyant cosmos]

We've been saying that for years

maybe it's just all rushed

we're gonna buy it anyways

[dawn talon]

i feel like wow players have some kind of primal urge to doom about their own spending habits

i don't really get it

[frigid shale]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[buoyant cosmos]

Im not dooming

[frigid shale]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[timid idol]

this teases

[desert tendon]

they ugly we dont want them

😠

[timid idol]

upcoming healer rogue spec

ive been saying that the last titan needs to be a legion tier expansion

with new class and halls and legendaries and a shitton of raids

[desert tendon]

tbf i wish we had fully new design. This looks like another allied race

[timid idol]

but instead of legendaries i'd take new specs

id play the fuck out of a rogue healer

[desert tendon]

yo imaging rogue healer crimson vial aoe empowered by feint

KS to heal up your friends

[timid idol]

i mean it would have different spells obviously

[buoyant cosmos]

My biggest copium is they're just pushing out everything they've already approved to make new stuff after this saga

[timid idol]

but i was thinking mad scientist chemist being the perfect fantasy for a rogue healer

[desert tendon]

i just wish rogue would get a damage raid buff

[stiff vector]

I cant wait to goon deep in the gooncave(delves) with valeera goonguinar

[gaunt phoenix]

we prevent parry

[cinder relic]

I think I disagree with most of this

[gaunt phoenix]

[desert tendon]

could ve been nagas, could ve been pigs orc, many things

[desert tendon]

me as fatebound / deathstalker

[buoyant cosmos]

No new rigging with a lot of these "new" races

[desert tendon]

btw isnt that a bug, shouldnt it be only for the rogue?

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[timid idol]

wait this means valeera will also have tank spec

how is that gonna work

[vague cape]

that's completely fine guy

[desert tendon]

does atro still stacks or they figured it out?

[timid idol]

every time she takes damage she sheds a piece of clothing hentai game style

[vague cape]

it's just my perspective

[gaunt phoenix]

i mean how does brann (a hunter) have a healer and tank spec

[desert tendon]

when i see blood elf calling help of the Light

i know my warcraft lore is in perish

[timid idol]

his healer spec makes no sense i will give u that

[vivid vessel]

i feel like you are trolling rn

[timid idol]

but his tank spec calling in a bear is cool af

[vivid vessel]

is it really you that wrote all of that

[timid idol]

and something i'd like to play on a playable hunter too

[vivid vessel]

or are you baiting again

[timid idol]

tank spec where u swap aggro with ur pet

[vague cape]

yes, thats how I feel about rogue in tww

[vivid vessel]

nah

[frail veldt]

"fundamentally the variance between success and failure with this hero tree is too large"

so true

deathstalkers mark is such a horrendous design

[random stirrup]

They killed it

Doesn’t work for the raid anymore

[frail veldt]

absolute 0/10

[desert tendon]

oh reazlly

they did fix that

[random stirrup]

Fixed for this season

[desert tendon]

lmao

gg

[timid idol]

maybe stupid opinion but i think pug role spread would be so much healtier if literally every class had at least 2 roles availabile

[frail veldt]

thats how you know its based

[desert tendon]

imagine being a triple dps spec and you dont bring a dps buffs

[gaunt phoenix]

rip

[vague cape]

my commentary comes as a sin main who has played significant amounts of outlaw and a little sub, im likely less accurate about outlaw's pain points than people who only play outlaw or play it at a higher level than me

[late swallow]

thanks for the clarification

[desert tendon]

what about atro stacking ryldd? Any idea?

[frail veldt]

but yeah youre right about our hero trees having a TON of issues just in general

[vivid vessel]

[random stirrup]

Atro stacking still works afaik

[vivid vessel]

do i have to read all of it

[frail veldt]

deathstalkers mark is so offputting to players and so unecessarily risky for no gain

[vivid vessel]

is it real

[vague cape]

bro i swear im not trolling, feel free to reply ripping it to shreds

[frail veldt]

TLDR zac is our hero trees suck ass

[desert tendon]

i mean mewo nothing new

[gaunt phoenix]

the sunwell should have summoned A'dal or some shit and exploded

[vague cape]

yes, and you don't have to read it if you don't want

[frail veldt]

fatebound shouldnt have negative aoe scaling

[desert tendon]

all 3 hero talents are way better than in tww ptr, but yet still very dogshit gameplay

when they have gameplay

[frail veldt]

and deathstalkers mark shouldnt be at such risk of literally just disappearing

[desert tendon]

wink wink fatebounf

[frail veldt]

and ruining your entire pull

[vivid vessel]

ok imma read it

[frail veldt]

its a bit ranty

but the points are valid

[slate forge]

Killing spree too slow killing spree too slow killing spree too slow

[vivid vessel]

if you baited me and sent me to a random forum dweler post i will be mad tho

[frail veldt]

@vague cape you for sure could have trimmed this down

[glass mortar]

was fixed in 11.0 per my sources

but its always possible they broke it again

who tf is even checking right

[timid idol]

what does deathstalker even do i dont think i touched sin or sub since hero talents came out

[gaunt phoenix]

that orc name looks like a slur

[desert tendon]

do you think one day we will have like taurens as main characters? Cuz having nelf / belf as main characters every expansion is killing my vibe this last ones

😔

[frail veldt]

but this

IS SO BASED

ENGINEERED FRUSTRATION

holy

[desert tendon]

always the same elf / dwarf archetype

[frail veldt]

what a statement

thats literally

blizzards go to for rogue

thank you mo

[desert tendon]

i dont see a lot of trolls / orc as well

[frail veldt]

im gona use that phrase

[vague cape]

young zug is one of 12 survival hunters in existence, his birth could be said to be a mistake

[desert tendon]

Mewo you should renamed Engineered frustrated i think

[frail veldt]

ok

it really is a perfect summation

[gaunt phoenix]

i think talking about daizr is a misnomer

[frail veldt]

of everything I hate about their design

they put in things that feel bad without any payoff

[cinder relic]

I've played a lot of sin in keys this expac and I think I can count the times mark has disappeared on 1 hand

[frail veldt]

yes you are an exception guy

congrats

[desert tendon]

i lost mark so much in keys

[vivid vessel]

guy litteraly only person that will defend mark in keys

[desert tendon]

not everyday of course, but happens a lot

[cinder relic]

How often is a lot

In 100 keys how often is it happening

[frail veldt]

Guy it shouldnt matter how often you run into the issue. It should matter how often other people do

[desert tendon]

enough to be noticeable and fucking my vibe

[cinder relic]

Give me an estimated number

[desert tendon]

over 100 keys i d say 20 ish

[cinder relic]

20% of keys your mark just disappears mid pull?

[glass mortar]

why should it drop even once

would it be broken if they could just easily apply it if it did bug and fall off

[frail veldt]

for me it was like 10 times per 100 keys

[glass mortar]

why does such an important system for the spec have the ability to fall apart completely

[frail veldt]

but another 10 from being broken out of stealth

before I can ambush

[desert tendon]

rando disappear / not refreshed / dying and not being able to reapply it

[glass mortar]

its the same for stealth honestly

[knotty scaffold]

how much did u sim in single target in outlow ?

[desert tendon]

yea 20 / 100 keys

[inland cairn]

i dont know because ive never played a sin key

[desert tendon]

knowing a keys is multiple pulls

[cinder relic]

I'm asking because in my experience, I litreally never have this issue, but somehow both of you are saying 10-20% of keys, your mark just breaks

[glass mortar]

we have workarounds and excuses for why occasionaly, maybe 1% of the time, stealth being an intergral part of our specs is just dogshit

[cinder relic]

Theres some sort of disconnect here

[glass mortar]

and 99% of the time its fine

but 1% of the time its frustration for no reason

fix the 1%

[frail veldt]

well are you just vanishing to reapply and ignoring the instances where it fails?

[desert tendon]

in S1 playing double assa was fun for mark as well

but that s another issue

[cinder relic]

Nope

[frail veldt]

like I cant even believe you did 100 keys and never got broken out of stealth before a pull

that alone is insane to me

[cinder relic]

Okay now the goalpost has been moved

Is it "My stealth is getting broken on pull"
or is it "The mark is breaking mid pull"

these are two different things

[frail veldt]

well for me its "my hero talents cant be used in this pull due to Engineered Frustration"

[lime lake]

its "mark sucks"

[frail veldt]

so

its relevant

imo

[desert tendon]

i was talking about the 2nd personnaly, my stealth getting broke before a pull is not so much of an issue besides known bug like we had with evoker legendary in df

[frail veldt]

are you arguing the design for deathstalkers mark is a net positive and it would get worse if they were to address this limitation?

[desert tendon]

that shit was disgusting

[cinder relic]

I really enjoy deathstalker so

[frail veldt]

were not saying to remove deathstalker

[desert tendon]

deathstalker sub

[late swallow]

i think deathstalker is "fun" because of how absolutely boring fatebound is

[desert tendon]

that s another story as well

[frail veldt]

my stance is just simply that mark should have a better mechanic for being applied

[cinder relic]

Nope, not at all

Deathstalker adds a lot to the sin rotation

[frail veldt]

if you have no active mark it should just apply on your next mutilate. Whats the downside to that?

[desert tendon]

hmmm idk, i think ds fits assa pretty well and has some gameplay

[gaunt phoenix]

4.7m it seems

[cinder relic]

Even if "fatebound doesn't do anything" (which is intentional) there is a lot of added things to track, play around, pay attention to with deathstalker

[frail veldt]

yuge

[digital linden]

is netherprism bis on outlaw on all bosses with damage amp?

[proper veldt]

Should change this to include assassination

[frail veldt]

I dont think anyone is saying those should be removed

[late swallow]

in aoe, I would agree, but it's not really that much of an extra load in raid

[gaunt phoenix]

probably since its so close otherwise

[cinder relic]

It adds a lot even in ST tho

[vivid vessel]

foreverguy when it comes to defending dogshit designs

[glass mortar]

are people asking for them to delete deathstalker or fix the fact that ur mark can break and its so core to the rotation it braking is dumb as fuk

[frail veldt]

Guy do you think that deathstalker would get worse if they gave you an alternate way to apply mark in the case that it gets lost to a bug/you get broken out of stealth?

[glass mortar]

none of what uve said so far was a counter to the complaints

[digital linden]

in bosses like dimensius do u just perma hold it until last phase?

[gaunt phoenix]

i wouldnt overcap it

[glass mortar]

if ur only defense of bad design is "i dont really notice it" or "the issues dont happen to me" or "i find it fun" those are only defenses if the people are asking for it to be removed

sounds to me like they just want it fixed so u can never be markless

which sounds fine to me

[gaunt phoenix]

lowkey the pertitious permititiereroir is probably better than prism at Raid burn

[red zinc]

what did you just say

[late swallow]

pertitious permititiereroir

[gaunt phoenix]

yes that

[frail veldt]

yeah even if you dont notice it

if it would be a positive for a large number of players

and it wouldnt impact you

why would you not want it

[red zinc]

who said that

[desert tendon]

i'd pertitious permititiereroir you

[gaunt phoenix]

thats the french translation

[late swallow]

based

[red zinc]

aw hell na

send the entirety of france to brazil

[frail veldt]

wait solo is french?

[glass mortar]

which trinket is that

[desert tendon]

no thanks

i dont wanna go to brasil

[gaunt phoenix]

Idk the actual name

[desert tendon]

also that s not french at all

[frail veldt]

its translated

[late swallow]

i think solo has french ancestry, but he lives in kentucky

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont live in ky

Try again

[late swallow]

midwest surely?

[red zinc]

perfidious projector right

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[desert tendon]

i actually dk where solo is based in

[gaunt phoenix]

The massive on use like beacon

[late swallow]

i think solo is the midwest for sure

[glass mortar]

solo lives in the cloud

[gaunt phoenix]

its kinda mid normally but priobably good at raid burn

[glass mortar]

obv

thats where all the sims come from

[late swallow]

hard to narrow down the state though

[glass mortar]

oh thats the trinket im using rn

[desert tendon]

Solo owns raidbots

[glass mortar]

its kinda mid

[desert tendon]

i leak the secret

[late swallow]

maybe like michigan/ohio/illinois

[red zinc]

ok mr washington

[cinder relic]

Blindside should probably also proc it if no mark/dn is out

[frail veldt]

he is our Neo

[frail veldt]

id love that yeah

[late swallow]

i'm getting strong midwest vibes from solo

[vivid vessel]

bro garotte should just proc it kekw

[gaunt phoenix]

You've said that like 4 times

[vivid vessel]

what world do we live in

blindside

[late swallow]

standing by for confirmation

[desert tendon]

oh yea also, why only ambush

[glass mortar]

why even have anything limit what procs it if its not up tbh

[vivid vessel]

a talent that you have not taken in 2 seasons in m+

[frail veldt]

Honestly solos vibe is hard to pin down

[desert tendon]

i dont really like that

[vivid vessel]

only this season do you take it

[red zinc]

let unc be

[livid oasis]

!addons

[frail veldt]

I couldnt place him to a state

[livid oasis]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Outlaw Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/outlaw-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/outlaw-rogue

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont even know what midwest really encompasses

[cinder relic]

U took blindside last season

Unless u did the zeroes build

[frail veldt]

but why stop there

[glass mortar]

the design of the spec is u have ur mark on ur prio target always, it only falls off if something goes wrong with the fight or the function of the mark

[vivid vessel]

ok that doesnt change anything

[glass mortar]

why not just make attacking a target when no marks exist mark the target

[cinder relic]

Well it does because you said "You never take this talent"

[cinder relic]

You do

[frail veldt]

Do you think its just too easy if you make it apply from garrote/mutilate

[vivid vessel]

for completly unrelated reasons

[gaunt phoenix]

None of the above

[vivid vessel]

and not always

[late swallow]

FUCK

back to the drawing board

[livid oasis]

@vivid vessel whats your UI link again please cant remember the command

[vivid vessel]

if the hero talent forced you to take it, like ks is forced on trickster

then fine

[frail veldt]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[livid oasis]

tty

[frail veldt]

yw

[desert tendon]

yw

[vivid vessel]

yw

[desert tendon]

ty

[vivid vessel]

np

[red zinc]

i dont see gary indiana on this map

[vivid vessel]

@cinder relic i hope you play deathstalker sin on soul hunter boss you freak

[red zinc]

thhe most important city

[glass mortar]

SHEEESH zac chill

[cinder relic]

Ofc I will, what else would I play?

[vivid vessel]

haha

gl cuh

hope you enjoy it

[late swallow]

solo is cousins with freddie gibbs

[vivid vessel]

peak gameplay

[late swallow]

a lot of people don't know that

[cinder relic]

We did a few pulls last night, and I never had issues with it on heroic

Ty though

[vivid vessel]

[gaunt phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/drag-queen-rupauls-drag-race-rpdr-drag-race-season13-s13-gif-20659926

[vivid vessel]

mb forgot you were a multispec freakazoid ultra god gamer

[red zinc]

zac eat a cookie

[cinder relic]

Many people forget of my gaming acolades

[desert tendon]

zac

are you progging outlaw this season?

[vivid vessel]

dont make a single mistake tho or you wont have mark on your target glgl

[vapid sundial]

Shut yo long finger having outlaw ditching ass up

[glass mortar]

zac called before we even had ptr tuning he was over progging as outlaw

[proper veldt]

[vivid vessel]

outlaw this season is litteraly worse than outlaw last season

[glass mortar]

outlaw not made for raiding

[vivid vessel]

nah but

weran

[glass mortar]

he is m+ 1 trick anyway

[desert tendon]

not my question dawg

[vivid vessel]

i litteraly

[red zinc]

nephew got a stickman legs for fingers

[vivid vessel]

got an outlaw weapon

[glass mortar]

and he called right too

[vivid vessel]

btw

[glass mortar]

imagine playing outlaw on mythic dimi

[cinder relic]

I just play the fun rogue spec

[glass mortar]

when sub and sin exist

[cinder relic]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cinder relic]

When outlaw is fun again I will return full time

[glass mortar]

????? wtf its not fun rn?

what do u not like

[vapid sundial]

See u in bfa classic

[frail veldt]

HO isnt good

so its not fun

[cinder relic]

Truth nuke

[vivid vessel]

doing low damage

[frail veldt]

/s

[cinder relic]

I don't like KiR, I don't like Trickster

[vapid sundial]

Me fr

[frail veldt]

Guy is a combat rogue at heart

[vapid sundial]

Ong

[vivid vessel]

"guys outlaw has way too much resource generation it should be dialed back"
refuses to play kir, ho only

[gaunt phoenix]

kir can go, it's been 3 years

[frail veldt]

I honestly wouldnt mind a shift away from rtb/kir complexity

I want to keep the builder/finisher complexity of KiR though

[glass mortar]

i mean i agree with guy outlaw is dogshit to play on live because 1 fth is leaking everywhere

[vivid vessel]

if you delete ho sure

[glass mortar]

its all over the raid boss logs and keys

and this build is a sin

[frail veldt]

1 fth is toxic

[unkempt cypress]

First time since bfa I haven't played OL

[frail veldt]

0/10

[glass mortar]

idk if im gunna last the whole season ngl

[buoyant cosmos]

Real

[glass mortar]

1 fth makes me not wanna play kir at all

[unkempt cypress]

Still

[vivid vessel]

1 fth is litteraly what guy want outlaw to be ??

[keen belfry]

im from there !

[desert tendon]

he wants crakshot out

[frail veldt]

oh thats fun

[desert tendon]

i mean tbf

i want SL outlaw back

[vapid sundial]

Awiener

[late swallow]

i totally sniped it

[glass mortar]

i like kir tho to be clear

[late swallow]

i'll come visit

[proper veldt]

Or he just likes whatever other people don’t tbh sounds about right

[glass mortar]

its just this 1 fth nonsense

delete it

[late swallow]

i have to go see weran in NY

first

[frail veldt]

I like current outlaw but I acknowledge that its a bit much haha

[keen belfry]

howd u know

[vapid sundial]

I want sbs outlaw back

[glass mortar]

it just needs

[vapid sundial]

My child

My baby

[glass mortar]

less rng in the actual rotation

[late swallow]

just a hunch man

[glass mortar]

and i dont mean less procs and things

i just want some damn rng protection

[gaunt phoenix]

dw midnight is cooking

[frail veldt]

I want rotation rng

[glass mortar]

the lowrolls of 1 fth kir are easily enough to make me not wanna even play

its kinda crazy

[frail veldt]

not dps rng

[glass mortar]

well idc about dps rng everyone has that

we arent even close to the worst

[frail veldt]

I do

[vapid sundial]

You Mean like how league does crit

[unkempt cypress]

Tier garbo, no acro garbo, cappd garbo, kir garbo. Pathedict

[glass mortar]

its the gameplay rng

[frail veldt]

I like the gameplay variance

not the energy starvation

but like the

[proper veldt]

This

[glass mortar]

the energy starvation is gameplay variance

[frail veldt]

"you have BS now so your builder rules changed"

[glass mortar]

so is never proccing cto for 1 minute

so is 16 ss in a row

this is what im talking about

not removing the actual procs from outlaw

[frail veldt]

I think it feels bad partly because we know were doing less dps during that time though

[cinder relic]

Not really, I just like what I like, usually tends to clash with what people in here say but I can't really help that

[glass mortar]

uh

no it feels bad because im not playing the game

idc about the details meter

im not showing on that anyway

i just want to play the game

[frail veldt]

I can feel my buffs falling

the plates are crashing

[glass mortar]

the low rolls of outlaw shouldnt feel as slow as classic wow

when the normal gameplay is this fast

thats always been my point

[vapid sundial]

That's what I swapped to enhance

Atleast then I always have a button

[glass mortar]

and its not hard to do

dont need guarenteed procs

or reducing damage variance

just a lil bit of cute rng protection

reducing energy cost if u dont proc

stuff like that

so u can keep pressing buttons

[cinder relic]

I want uhuh crackshot fan the hammer removed, and then opportunity base chance increased to like, 65% or something

[glass mortar]

i just wanna press my buttons

[cinder relic]

kir too I dont like you

[vivid vessel]

what about ho

[glass mortar]

also fatal flourish

[vivid vessel]

why arent we removing ho

im confused

[late swallow]

i like crackshot idk man I don't want that to go

[cinder relic]

cuz I like it?

[glass mortar]

this shit shoulda been the sub energy talent

why is FF an rng proc

[vivid vessel]

hm

[keen belfry]

i think KIR + crackshot gone = awang gone

[vivid vessel]

that goes against what you want outlaw to be tho

[proper veldt]

I mean it’s just that if you play outlaw ur brain just gets rewired into downtime is giga cringe, so like when you get energy starved it feels giga cringe

[glass mortar]

u dont interact with energy other then to sometimes not be able to press buttons when ur supposed to always be able to

[vivid vessel]

you always say you want less resource generation

and ho is litteraly

[vapid sundial]

Good

[cinder relic]

I like Ho though

[glass mortar]

no reason for such a large portion of our energy budget to be an rng proc

[vivid vessel]

the most cp gen outlaw has

[keen belfry]

hello?

[vivid vessel]

ok

[vapid sundial]

Wiener

I hate kir

[dawn talon]

kir is the most fun spell in the game

[vapid sundial]

no

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[glass mortar]

kir is fine tho i think it should be more normalized

[proper veldt]

Ok but guys big positive this expansion tho is coup and ks in a way it makes DF feel so bland

[frail veldt]

HO is consistent

[glass mortar]

if they dont buff the "farm buff gameplay" via cto somehow

[proper veldt]

Like only having 2 finishers was ass too

[frail veldt]

the lows arent as low

which I do like about it

thats a good thing

[proper veldt]

Feels good to have more finishers

[glass mortar]

you could just do something like "kir grants +2 buffs"

so u can use it on a good 2 buff or any 3 buff

something like that

[vivid vessel]

nah

i just want a cracked cto

and keep kir

[glass mortar]

sure

[unkempt cypress]

Need to lock down the fkin channel and riot

[glass mortar]

cracked cto would be cooler

[vivid vessel]

and just mega farm cto

[glass mortar]

i said that if they didnt buff cto

[vivid vessel]

im addicted to locking cto buffs

it feels crazy

[glass mortar]

i really liked the feel of increased proc chance in stealth like

what if they brought back guarenteed 1 cto on first builder in stealth zac

[vapid sundial]

No

Bad

Remove dps stealth from outlaw

[glass mortar]

only if they 1:1 replace vanish subterfuge with an identical setup of damage windows that just arent stealth

which i dont ever see them doing

crackshot still my favorite thing they ever done to outlaw

[late swallow]

crackshot my beloved

[vapid sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-baby-speech-bubble-cat-speech-baby-cat-gif-4142671478724681183

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/smart-monkey-listening-monkey-speech-bubble-dumb-lion-lion-yelling-gif-977388511909412427

[gaunt phoenix]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/121880935951106048/1054693009918275604/giphy.gif

[keen belfry]

its like peak skill expression

[vapid sundial]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/779127454044258365/1352491201969913886/watermark.gif

[glass mortar]

and to be clear i do mean crackshot crackshot, not uhuh

uhuh can begone

[vapid sundial]

Idgaf about your skill expression

[restive turtle]

Dreadblades my beloved

[vapid sundial]

I think the ability is shit

[late swallow]

kir crackshot is why I fell in love with outlaw

[vivid vessel]

crackshot ace are peak outlaw design

[glass mortar]

^

[vivid vessel]

if they ever remove that

well

[keen belfry]

when the good player plays better for 2 gcds so he snipes 5 buffs and the bad player (only messed up 2 gcds) has to reroll 2 buffs and gets Buried treasure and Skull n pissbones

[vivid vessel]

they got paid by guy

[glass mortar]

this damage window is so outlaw idk

its like core outlaw to me now

i go from lots of procs to layering another degree of fast proc ontop for my "big" window

its so fun

[pliant wave]

Fix outlaw's mastery

[vapid sundial]

No

[late swallow]

the <gn> check came in, and Guy bought more Blizz shares

[vapid sundial]

Shut up

Stop asking for mastery fixes

[gaunt phoenix]

be nice

[vapid sundial]

You WILL get monkey pawd

[limpid onyx]

Vers as only stat is horrible

Scaling like ass

[vapid sundial]

You saw what they did to haste

They will do it to mastery

[glass mortar]

oh yea if haste tax isnt gone in 12.0

[vapid sundial]

Don't tempt the dragon

[glass mortar]

i mean surely

this thing doesnt last longer then an expac no?

if it does we are just doomed

this shit is so ass

[late swallow]

haste tax at the start of a new xpac 🔥

[bright crane]

Well guy IS a MSFT shareholder after all…

[vapid sundial]

Every time I see people ask for mastery changes it's just.. No please no

You will regret it

[glass mortar]

this might be the most egregious secondary "interaction" hamfisted into a spec in the whole game

well tbf masteries are usually very boring so

asking for a mastery rework isnt nearly as risky

99% of masteries are "do x% more damage" and "fixing" them is just making them scale to not be shit

[vapid sundial]

Haste is boring too tho

[glass mortar]

including new ones

[vapid sundial]

It's not really interesting

All secondaries really

[limpid onyx]

Haste go brr

[glass mortar]

ok but its required for the spec to function, not just because it got made stronger

[vapid sundial]

Just cast faster or attack faster

[glass mortar]

most specs masteries do not provide any function

they are just damage

almost all specs infact

[stiff vector]

I mean...I dont want mastery to be reworked to be overwhelmingly strong or anything, but the spec needs its stat scaling fixed BADLY

[glass mortar]

the downside of a mastery rework would 99% be that we lose a ton of vers

i wouldnt be too worried about what they cooked

[vapid sundial]

But again, the problem is blizzard Already curled us once

[vivid vessel]

mastery: all your crit, haste, and mastery rating is converted to versatility at 200% value

[cinder relic]

Mastery should probs not be piss worthless

[glass mortar]

yea

i dont even wanna be a mastery spec

but maybe it should be like 80% of a real secondary

instead of 50%

idk

[vapid sundial]

I just have ptsd and 0 trust

For outlaw devs

[vivid vessel]

after what they did to haste

[vapid sundial]

After acro removal. Haste tax.

[vivid vessel]

and killing spree

i would rather

[muted iron]

each % of mastery goes into your ability to 5 roll, ez

[vivid vessel]

they dont do anything

[glass mortar]

i mean haste is a jank stat to make good tho

[vivid vessel]

im ngl

[muted iron]

stack mastery, consta 5 buff

[glass mortar]

they fumbled the bag for sure

but mastery is much easier to "fix"

[vapid sundial]

Yes

But

They won't do it the easy way

They'll make it required for some reason

[cinder relic]

I mean they buff mastery all the time

It should just be buffed more than it ever has been in the past

[bright crane]

Mastery and Midnight both start with M… outlaw mastery rework confirmed??

[cinder relic]

That's all

[glass mortar]

this expac alone theyve buffed how many specs masteries to just "be better" without changing how the masteries work for the spec at all

like 3 or 4 times

[stiff vector]

I mean theyve also kinda r eworked quite a few masteries since DF

[glass mortar]

sure and all the reworked ones are just passive damages as well

survival and unholy dk both got new masteries, and the result (for survival at least) was that now mastery is a real stat for damage and quite strong and... nothing else

still doesnt impact gameplay at all

[gaunt phoenix]

mastery increase gun attack damage

[bright crane]

don’t get greedy. This will need to wait till after the next mage rework

We got hit and run with a KS change so please be thankful

[frail veldt]

that would be so fun

[cinder relic]

I used to not like this, but with crackshot and fan being the way they are, itd make sense I feel

[gaunt phoenix]

and ks !

is a gun

[cinder relic]

ya ks too

[glass mortar]

kspree also a gun now

[cinder relic]

Would make sense now

[glass mortar]

mhmm

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/monkeys-paw-paw-monkey-gif-17535679

[gaunt phoenix]

your gun attacks deal x% of their damage as fire

[bright crane]

Outlaw a mastery and vers spec??

[cinder relic]

You now need 20k mastery to enable our best gsw build

[vapid sundial]

Yeah

[glass mortar]

[stiff vector]

mastery tax inc

[vapid sundial]

Seems right

[bright crane]

https://tenor.com/view/mother-of-god-gif-10218431

[stiff vector]

double taxation

[gaunt phoenix]

now we have different builds that go towards different stats

[vapid sundial]

People complain about vers build

Until they lose the vers

[bright crane]

the Warcraft Tea Party??

[vapid sundial]

And become squishy

[gaunt phoenix]

we should just be vers mastery like sub

[vapid sundial]

You will learn

You'll all learn

Remember this day.

[cinder relic]

"so with this much haste and mastery you want this build, then you can drop haste for crit then you can drop these talents for this..."

[stiff vector]

I mean, I could easily stomach sacrificing like 10% vers for mastery/haste/crit being actual good stats

[untold yarrow]

Has solo managed a cook yet

[cinder relic]

"Hey guys I have 13% haste and 49% mastery what build should I play"

[vapid sundial]

Hell nah

10%????

[stiff vector]

I mean I have like 39% vers with just flask rn lol

[vapid sundial]

Oh god it's bfa again

The '7%'

[untold yarrow]

boomkin

[glass mortar]

i mean we have that on live except instead of what build should i play with this its what build CAN i play with my haste

secondaries are easy enough to come by now a day i guess it doesnt matter (especially since HO fell off)

[vapid sundial]

Except we're at the end of an expansion

And they will be squished down again

[gaunt phoenix]

you just know some people copy kir 1fth from other people, dont know it requires haste, and proceed to have the worst gaming experience in outlaw's history

[glass mortar]

god could u imagine

i did one key with like 16% haste as kir because i swapped some gear and didnt realize i had dropped out a haste piece before the key and it was miserable

[stiff vector]

ye I mean end of the xpac is when outlaw having the worst stat scaling in the game is really felt the most

[glass mortar]

playing that shit with like 10% haste or something

[vapid sundial]

Wrong

[glass mortar]

🤮

[vapid sundial]

You feel it at the start too.

Bc you get nerfed from heroic dungeon and raid logs.

[cinder relic]

Ppl complain about shit stat scaling but that never stops sub from being OP

[stiff vector]

well I didnt say you dont feel it at the start...its just obviously more impactful late xpac.

[cinder relic]

Haste tax is bad, mastery should be better, that's the end of it imo

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[vapid sundial]

Remove hate

Haste

Fuck

[glass mortar]

stat scaling only matters if some intern at blizzard doesnt understand it

and outlaw cops a nerf on herioc week

then they need to rebuff it PAST where it was originally

3 weeks later

[cinder relic]

stat scaling only matters when people who think they know about wow talk about wow

[glass mortar]

that shit is so funny

[hasty warren]

mastery rework for gsw proc

[glass mortar]

ok so what do u think happened s1 guy

when they nerfed us

then outlaw was shit

and they had to buff us by more 3 weeks later

[cinder relic]

Outlaw is OP on heroic week, that's what happened

[glass mortar]

why r we op on herioc week

[vapid sundial]

Bc of stat scaling

Hmmmmm

[glass mortar]

and not 3 weeks into mythic prog

[hybrid crown]

I did a stat weight sim with like 700 ilvl gear and across all my gear I had 150 mastery. It was still my least valued stat

[cinder relic]

Because a lot of specs need to ramp their damage more, on longer kill timers

[hybrid crown]

Maybe we are just talking aoe

[cinder relic]

And optimizing mythic strats is different than mongoing through heroic

[vapid sundial]

Those people are doing 30 man clears

[glass mortar]

im sure all those things u mentioned are part of the reason outlaw falls off from week 1

[vapid sundial]

Those kill times are not fast

[glass mortar]

i think its silly to pretend stat scaling also isnt tho

[cinder relic]

Same way sub looked like the worst spec in the game on heroic week, and is now the literal thero class for the 2 hardest fights of the raid

[glass mortar]

it just doesnt matter unless they do something very silly

like nerf based on week 1

[cinder relic]

Do you think thats stat scalings fault?

or do you think that's mythic allows you to flex subs strengths

[vivid vessel]

no thats cause sub damage profile is op

[vapid sundial]

Why are we being disingenous

[stiff vector]

I mean stat scaling does matter, because it just means were even more beholden to needing regular tuning to not fall behind. Acting like its completely irrelevant is just silly.

[vapid sundial]

What is the point

[frail veldt]

stat scaling being different between specs/classes does mean there is more work needed to ongoingly tune yeah

so stat scaling inherently isnt bad if everyone scaled the same

[glass mortar]

no i think sub has an extreme damage profile that can swing it quite hard based on multiple aspects of a fight and law has that to much less of a degree. i think sub also suffers for its stat scaling but thats largely made up for by having favorable kill timers on farm

[frail veldt]

but everyone doesnt scale the same

so stat scaling causes issues

[vapid sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-how-many-times-do-we-need-to-teach-you-old-man-slow-thick-gif-12272188

Outlaw chat to guy rn

[glass mortar]

i dont think outlaw has many of these aspects which is why its fall off as the weeks progress is probably due more to scaling

its not like outlaws damage should gain less with gear or go down as fight timers get shorter, its agnostic to timers

[stiff vector]

its almost like sub has an extremely powerful tier set(we do too, but our s2 tier was better) and really OP dmg profile for raid

[glass mortar]

if ur not gaining as much as other specs theres something else happening

[cinder relic]

Keep booing me I know what you guys cheer for

[glass mortar]

but again my whole point was stat scaling only matters if blizzard does something silly

[vapid sundial]

You don't

I don't cheer for curent outlaw

I hate it

[frail veldt]

yeah

[glass mortar]

like not tune at all at the start of a season (fated season 4 last expac) or nerf you week 1

[vapid sundial]

Hate kit

Kir