outlaw

[red zinc]

im sure they'll do something but

[wintry solar]

Same garbage different dumpster

[red zinc]

its like

the general player base was complaining about too many systems

not to glaze lizzard at all but they aren't doing less with expansions (in terms of content per time unit)

expansions should be longer is my only complaint

[wintry solar]

We had a lot of content this time around

[red zinc]

like people gotta remember

SL S2

7 month patch

only content we got was legion timewalking

nothing else

[mighty pivot]

when expansions were longer it was because BlizZard had tiers which lasted for like a year and people didn't like that 👍 🏄‍♀️ 🏄‍♂️

[wintry solar]

I didn't expect visions to come back

[red zinc]

I doubt there wont be any class systems in this xpac

every single modern one has had something

[wintry solar]

Had not it been for player housing, we'd probably know already.

Housing has been begged for for 40 fuckin forever that naturally its what they use to hype up midnight

[desert tendon]

Imagine

You want housing in your mmorpg

So you can be fully alone

People complained about wod but they want more

[wintry solar]

The house is an extension of yourself. This has nothing in common with WoD.

[desert tendon]

They can nail it. But doing à good housing in a mmo is difficult

Many have failed

[mighty pivot]

it feels very bad when I agree with popo

[trail cove]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into :ks: KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• :ks: KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[wintry solar]

You can disagree to spite me. Idc

[mighty pivot]

common popo L take

there, fixed

[wintry solar]

Feel better?

[red zinc]

coming out in december already

wont even feel like an xpac feature atp

[wintry solar]

That's so true

[mighty pivot]

yes my mind is at peace now

[wintry solar]

I paid 80 bucks for patch content

[red zinc]

like

minus housing the xpac looks a lil dry so if they stagger the release that hard

[desert tendon]

Popo L take

[red zinc]

i wonder what the reaction will b e

[desert tendon]

100% of the time

Zeross is less of a cooker than popo

[wintry solar]

People who would care are playing remix

I imagine

[red zinc]

legion remix will go very hard i cant lie

[mighty pivot]

not according to zac's tier list

[red zinc]

played a lil bit yesterday

[desert tendon]

Zac s is so inaccurate

[wintry solar]

Yeah it's good.

Can't wait

[desert tendon]

If you listen to zac

[red zinc]

staggered raid releases and actual gear progression

[mighty pivot]

@vivid vessel thoughts?

[junior coral]

So if you AR before boss pull as fate bound you pull the boss huh…?

[desert tendon]

Outlaw is Either god tier or dogshit

How is that based

[wintry solar]

I never thought I'd be interested in world content

[red zinc]

WE are all killing withered jim

ALL OF US

[mighty pivot]

arcanocrystal

[wintry solar]

It's just the initial artifact ability bugs the hell out of me lol

I'll get over it obv but it being cdr is so wild

From an Outlaw perspective

[red zinc]

same tree for everyone else is a lil sadge

but i get it

[worldly shale]

!prepull

[red zinc]

at least some flexibility in the ability you pick

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into :ks: KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• :ks: KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[worldly shale]

ok

me fuckup

[wintry solar]

I bet it feels great for CD specs though

Aka 99% of the other specs

[wintry solar]

I hope you make peace with whatever is troubling you.

[mighty pivot]

I won't

thanks

[wintry solar]

I'm sure you will

[mighty pivot]

[tight kernel]

Someone tell me prog parses don’t matter

I need to hear it for my mental

[digital linden]

they dont matter bro trust

[lofty sand]

thats only what matters no?

XD

rwf players are rwf players bcs they can min max dps while doing the unnerfed version of the bosses perfectly

[digital linden]

ye they 100% matter

but u gotta help a guy out

[wintry solar]

Good thing he's not rwf. Otherwise he'd be screwed >.>

[lofty sand]

as outlaw its ass tho cuz u might lock in for mechanics but then ur uptime can be cooked

and rip dmg

while assa and sub can take a nap

and cook in their burst window

[wintry solar]

Rate your fun on a scale of 1-10 and that's your parse

[tight kernel]

0

[wintry solar]

Oof

[vivid vessel]

idk you tell me

[wintry solar]

Get benched idiot

[vivid vessel]

when i said outlaw would be shit this season

before 20% aura buff btw

and now

look at us

its shit

after 20% aura buff

was i wrong

no

im never wrong

[wintry solar]

(In a playful way)

[lofty sand]

the last boss as outlaw is misery

even if i save my ar for platforms its still feels so ass

[tight kernel]

Just do it idk

[vivid vessel]

when i said

bf nerf was a nerf

people laughed at me

look at us now

who was wrong

[sonic pawn]

really miss last seasons 4p tier 🙁

[wintry solar]

People missed the last rtb tier as well.

I wonder if that means rtb needs TLC or if it could mean something else.

Need 1 more instance to have a pattern

[spare dome]

every chart

tells

that rogue is S tier everywhere

nerfs inc

[wintry solar]

Surely blizz knows how to read the charts

[toxic laurel]

When a class is nerfed, are the old parses invalidated or how does that work ?

[agile orchid]

Blizzard will look at araz and soul hunters fight

And nerf outlaw

[desert tendon]

Outlaw deserves a nerf

Let s be real

Bring back 5 target hardcap

60% adr uptime

And acro

[normal forge]

Outlaw tierset need serious buff imo.

Also. Can we get a flat 5% like ret paladin?

[normal forge]

What was the bf nerf?

[unkempt smelt]

Bring back acro for real tho...

[normal forge]

I can't compete against frost dk and ele shaman. It's just impossibru

[mighty pivot]

lock down outlaw chat

all 20 outlaw players will riot

[wintry solar]

I'm gonna be SO mad while I play a different game.

[mighty pivot]

which dating sim are you playing popo

[wintry solar]

You looking for suggestions?

[brave lagoon]

I started gearing my devoker last night and even 30ilvl under my outlaw I was doing more aoe dmg in keys I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry

[mossy shell]

do you really think there are 20 of us

there are at most 12

[cedar kernel]

1 day 300 score

💀

squeezed

[mossy shell]

that's a lotta score

[lucid sandal]

Might be the play lowkey

[gaunt phoenix]

my overall seems the same with old 4pc or new 4pc

[vivid vessel]

AH

FUCK YOU

[inland acorn]

overall seems same, but feeling is cheeks

Idk I dislike double coup

[vivid vessel]

i swear i do less damage

[gaunt phoenix]

i like it

[jolly geyser]

Maybe they buff it lul

[inland acorn]

Sometimes i'm having to coup so much, that i'm watching my vanish sitting on 2 charges

and it just feels wrong

[digital linden]

same i really like it

[restive obsidian]

I hate the fact that the unseen blade stack doesn't go past 4. Wasted unseen blades during double coup

[dim widget]

Just don't track em and you will never notice

[tight kernel]

Real statement

[limpid onyx]

I just wish you could build to next coup while it was up

[cedar kernel]

i do more dmg

idky

[limpid onyx]

Having to avoid ss is strange

[cedar kernel]

i swear

1 day for 300 score is crazy

[tight kernel]

Zac you happy? Be happy man it’ll be alright one day moga dream will happen

[cedar kernel]

18 hrs before last slept

i need to sleep

have a nice day brothers

i need to give a little think about my 15+ flood

[tight kernel]

It’s ez just send it

Nothing new

No bubbles zzz

Rip the homie bubbles

[cedar kernel]

yea but the number issues

and i cant found any one in pug want to do 15+, no one applying

[gaunt phoenix]

i swear if you click floodgate there are 900 keys

and the rest have 7

[balmy topaz]

Zacs adds are so fucked

[tight kernel]

Farmed by Zac

[tired rune]

wtf is that lmao

[young prism]

I'm just scared that one day I'll wake up and see 'don't play outlaw' in pins 😀

[tired rune]

Only place you’ll see that is on @proven ocean wall

[inland acorn]

I'm scared i'll wake up one day and see "We now require X% of mastery"

[young prism]

Thanks for new phobia

[gaunt phoenix]

the next pin is looking like "more macros" unfortunately

[glass mortar]

.....

what cursed tech r u guys looking into

[copper radish]

I love watching bubbles get smashed

It’s the best scene all season

[glass mortar]

guys i dont know if i can do a whole season of streets

the bosses in this key

are so bad

how did a whole key end up like this

[normal forge]

Menagerie sux but the others are ok I guess

[glass mortar]

idk mailroom every mechanic is just downtime

go soak puddles for 5s in africa

go throw bombs for 3 seconds

do this every 30 seconds

[normal forge]

Kkkkkk

Tuff love

[glass mortar]

last boss is the least toxic and its still meh

[worldly shale]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[feral sphinx]

Hey guys, ive saw some people are using Nightfall Cruseblade's Cudgel for M+ but on raider io its showing some having a 690 ilvl item - is that a bug? I can only get the version that maxes out at 678

[gaunt phoenix]

the weekly quest to do the event has a chance to give you a 691 version

[feral sphinx]

Ah amazing thank you

[keen belfry]

I think u can just soak less often than you think, go make ur ranged/healer go do far one’s

[inland acorn]

When new pin 👀

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/arrested-development-dozens-of-us-david-cross-speech-gif-3545958

[glass mortar]

ok maybe i dont know the mechanic

theres like 10 puddles per wave tho

and 90% of them arent in melee

do u just let a ton land?

theres no way my ranged can get to all of these

[cedar bone]

im about to craft a sword, i take
Elemental Focusing Lens
right?

[keen belfry]

If I have to soak far away and lose a lot of uptime I just don’t. I think boss usually dies fast enough

Idk actual best way to do it yet

[glass mortar]

what even happens if u dont soak them

[glass mortar]

u can yea

[mossy shell]

So we don’t coup in subterfuge. But what if we are stupid and, for no particular reason, end up in subterfuge with the second coup ticking down. Do we spend it?

[mossy shell]

Ya

[quaint mauve]

if. i dont need haste

[waxen scarab]

!LOG

[quaint mauve]

i should draft vers crit pieces ?

[waxen scarab]

!log

[quaint mauve]

right

[mossy shell]

Sim

[quaint mauve]

how do i sim crafts :p

[mossy shell]

You can use raidbots droptimizer for crafted items 🙂

[keen belfry]

This can happen with good play too! You coup in subterfuge

[mossy shell]

Sim vers/crit and haste separately and compare. For both patchwerk and slice.

[mossy shell]

Cool thanks, I figured I should

Bring back RtB patch nobody likes the coup 😭

[keen belfry]

Yes it’s just area denial maybe if they are already in a puddle don’t soak? Maybe that’s bad idk

I like double coup a lot I just don’t like RTB anymore

Fix RTB chat

[mossy shell]

Yea I guess I do like the double coup. I do not like having only two buffs all the time.

[keen belfry]

Just add +1 to expected RTB buffs imo

2/3/6

[mossy shell]

God yes

[toxic laurel]

just roll the pretty bones dude

[glass mortar]

thats what sleight should do

[mossy shell]

Awangawngawang says the truth

[glass mortar]

that would be pretty strong tho, loaded would probably need a buff

[keen belfry]

Awangggg truth!

I think just increase at its core and loaded by 3 is goated

[glass mortar]

sleight should just make ur buff rolls +1

[heavy shadow]

Are there some recent class tuning changes? I've seen some mention but I can't tell what's real any more and I don't see any in news

[glass mortar]

and loaded dice should like

guarentee +2 buffs after an ar or something

[keen belfry]

No cap what if every 7 ARs loaded makes next RTB a 6 buff

[sterile bough]

is playing with daggers much worse than 1sword 1 dagger?

[keen belfry]

You can’t use outlaw stuff without a main hand sword

So yes

[sterile bough]

all spells are castable

[glass mortar]

u cant dispatch

:p

pretty important button

[mossy shell]

Also I keep noticing times when killing spree hitting random targets ruins damage, or is kind of troll. It’s actually so bad. Makes me want to sent KS for coup stacks and cancel so I can hit my prio target. But that seems bad too.

[glass mortar]

that is the only button u cant use with a dagger but yes playing with a dagger is pretty bad

[mossy shell]

Interesting and thematic

They should hire you

[glass mortar]

everytime u proc lucky coin ur next RtB gives a 5 buff

[sterile bough]

damn. I got this so switching would be a big downgrade

[glass mortar]

u cant play outlaw with a dagger mh

u will sit at max cp quite often and have no way to spend

so i wouldnt call it a downgrade

its not an option for outlaw

daggers can only go in the oh

[hardy thicket]

Just use it in OH or play double dagger spec til u have a decent MH

[sterile bough]

i can craft but I am still not sure which spec I should do. if I craft a MH id lose a weapon for the 2 other specs

i kept seeing coup de grace pop up and assumed dispatch was working on dummies. no wonder i can only do 3M dps with combat and 9 with ass

[midnight granite]

Outlaw and sin/sub dont use the same weapons lol

[sterile bough]

yeah this is my frist rogue i dind't know they needed MH

[midnight granite]

If you play sin/sub dagger is good

If not, it's whatever. Offhand ilvl doesn't matter much

[sterile bough]

i tried ass its strong but i just don't like the gameplay

[hardy thicket]

You need to open vault as Outlaw if you want a chance on 1h MH btw

[sterile bough]

yeah ill switch loot spec next time

[worldly shale]

Same, insta switched back to law

Played assa in s1, was boring back then too xd

Dunno what i expected

[ember goblet]

Outlaw is by far the best spec in terms of gameplay I may start messing with sub just to get a hang of it

[heavy shadow]

Speaking of loot spec, trinket is not impacted at all by this right? I assume not because I keep getting shite trinkets which I think suit other specs

[worldly shale]

Its just onehanded yes or onehanded no

[keen belfry]

Ks is a bad button old ks is better in everyway except the killing you part

[gaunt phoenix]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into :ks: KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• :ks: KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[keen belfry]

[feral glen]

In raid with Fatebound how we send GS? Still macro with all, Just with vanish or other spell?

[unkempt smelt]

What's the gain of bothering ourselves with such fuckery?

[unkempt smelt]

GS on CD

[midnight granite]

Wait prekey sc stacks stay at 4 now?

[glass mortar]

no

thats not what the prekey says

wait it says both

[midnight granite]

What

[glass mortar]

@gaunt phoenix why are you double RtBing before the key

is it just so u still have 2 after it enters after pressing kspree?

[covert kestrel]

Ye I think

[midnight granite]

Unseen blades looks like

[gaunt phoenix]

so you have 2 supercharger even after ks

[glass mortar]

thats crazy

[gaunt phoenix]

if you do it once, then you ks and it consumes a sueprcharger

[safe pasture]

i feel like me and bliz have differing defintions of "scheduled maintenance "

[glass mortar]

as in, if u have time to rtb twice, go find a critter and cast kspree on it before u press RtB

then press RtB once

i guess it doesnt matter

[midnight granite]

Loaded dice stays?

[glass mortar]

yes

it has a limited duration tho

[midnight granite]

Ye

[daring oxide]

We keep the UB stacks when key starts?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

[daring oxide]

I thought they fixed that

Hmm I need to do that again

[gaunt phoenix]

ks is not targeted

[glass mortar]

yes but building cp is

[gaunt phoenix]

just just AR KS like 5 seconds before the key

[glass mortar]

i guess

[daring oxide]

You can press KS after you press AR

You get cps back

[glass mortar]

i just land at a key, go and his a critter or mob right outside

then press kspree

[daring oxide]

And can snd

[glass mortar]

so i only RtB one time

or use a target dummy toy

all the same in the end

[safe pasture]

are we just running double sin in higher keys for prio (one sin, one outlaw) or is there another class besides arcane that can fill the prio damage slot?

sorry meant double rogue lol

[glass mortar]

me when outlaw isnt a prio damage slot

🥹

[gaunt phoenix]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[safe pasture]

dont feel like we that good prio but maybe im wrong

[wintry solar]

You were wrong.

It was zones AND trolls

[glass mortar]

no im agreeing with u

its just tragic if u ever need to say "we need a prio damage spec to make up for outlaw" because outlaw usually is a prio damage spec

[wintry solar]

Talents coming Sat. Just wait for new expansion Weran

Ggez

[lethal oak]

How come an outlaw rework wasn't highlighted in the Midnight cinematic? We are the main characters.

[glass mortar]

its crazy how good the rogues in the cinimatic were tbh

didnt see a single one of them

hidden in the shadows as always

💅

[lethal oak]

[wintry solar]

Rtb will be empowered. Ggs

[safe pasture]

Honestly with our current balancing feel like uncapping bf wouldn’t even be that crazy

[lethal oak]

I'm telling you RTB should be like SnD and get rolled every dispatch

[wintry solar]

I like rtb how it is :/

Unless you can add S2 4pc in as a talent then we can talk.

[lethal oak]

Nah we baseline it

And BF now does reduced damage beyond 8 targets

[midnight granite]

Wtf is this cooked take

Charred

Burnt

[lethal oak]

Its an RnG masterclass

The Blizzard vision for Outlaw

[glass mortar]

me when i give outlaw perma 6 buff

[gaunt phoenix]

you can delete rtb but increase cto proc chance heavily

[glass mortar]

its fixed guys

cto as a full rtb replacer is an interesting idea

the problem is i dont wanna play that and i dont wanna lose cto with RtB

[gaunt phoenix]

every 20s, your next ss is guaranteed to proc cto

after killing spree, you get 2 free cto procs

thoughts ?

[glass mortar]

some forms of rng protection would be very welcome

honestly even just making it so cto chance is increased again in stealth

and make it so cto doesnt ever get rolled away

overwritten but not deleted

[edgy phoenix]

this tbh

so we can atleast feel good about pressing it

[gaunt phoenix]

actually having to press ks but you need cto procs for kir is annoying

probably half the reason kir can cancel it

[edgy phoenix]

or make ks proc ctos

like every shot 15%

idk

[slate forge]

AR falling off I swear use to not feel this bad

[glass mortar]

i mean if u play 1 fth kir it has the lowest lows of any outlaw build i can remember gameplay wise

its certainly been getting worse and worse to drop adr since DF initial changes

we are at about as punished as u can get with these seasons builds

[slate forge]

If you go big pull in ARA or gambit and don’t get enough CTO buff to KIR you’re fking useless

[mossy compass]

Hear me out, RtB, Loaded Dice, and Count the Odds all get merged into our new mastery.

Every finisher has a chance (based on Mastery rating) to give us a number of seconds of one or more RtB buffs for a number of seconds equal to the CPs spent.

AR causes our next finisher to guarantee a roll and guarantee at least two buffs.

[glass mortar]

god no please

rng scaling off a secondary stat

the worst possible solution

just make it baseline passive or talent if ur gunna do stuff like this, tuning a scaling % chance at important procs is just ass

[slate forge]

Just double duration of CTO buff

[edgy phoenix]

or turn cto into last sez tierset

or make adr pandemic

[glass mortar]

some form of guarenteed CtO buff would be nice, i really dont enjoy the variance in kir timings out of ur control at this point

over half my pulls on herioc dimi i didnt get to kir for the first minute or more of the fight just due to procs

[edgy phoenix]

sometimes i use new ar at 10secs of old one

[glass mortar]

[edgy phoenix]

if they cant make it 2 charges

[glass mortar]

yes thats fine

[edgy phoenix]

pandemic would feel nice

[glass mortar]

oh yea i mean theres no real reason adr doesnt pandemic other then the idea of overcapping adr with a new adr cast was silly in the past

it pandemicing would just give a bit more uptime in practice without being much of a dps change in sims imo it would be a nice lil change

[edgy phoenix]

idk if it would make outlaw too op to like make subterfuge not start drutation after breaking stealth but after using a damaging ability

[late swallow]

rtb should just auto-give full buffs

[glass mortar]

[edgy phoenix]

so like u can vanish downtime and save

adr

[mossy compass]

I often go several minutes into fights without getting to press KiR

[edgy phoenix]

to useless walking in raid and mechanics

[glass mortar]

i have had that happen as well, wouldnt say often but

i had a singular pull on normal dimi where i didnt kir once the entire p1

https://tenor.com/view/cinema-gif-5935759059195122434

i love outlaws lowrolls

[safe pasture]

Trying not to get kicked from hero dim is a real effort

Idk how the fuck you supposed to do dam there

[glass mortar]

i will happily bench myself for that fight for the rest of the season

dont need anything off it and i dont even want to play that boss ever again

id rather come on 680 ilvl alts then play outlaw

[edgy phoenix]

thats what im saying

[glass mortar]

they would be more effective

[edgy phoenix]

downtime feels like shit

[mossy compass]

What does everyone do for their opener on Dimi, since the portal breaks stealth and ruins our first crackshot window.

[safe pasture]

Legit they need to make the hit box of the boss bigger or something cause lots times in circles for soak I can’t touch the mf

[glass mortar]

land > ghostly + adr macro on dimi while cleaving the add

can usually get 1 crackshot bte off if not 2

[safe pasture]

Or call it even and give us acro back

[glass mortar]

then kspree > vanish

its mega cucked opener tho

its crazy they didnt pick up that breaking everyones stealth to enter a boss fight wouldnt be very enjoyable

[mossy compass]

That's what I usuallly do, feels gross

[safe pasture]

You can also start with ar up sense it doesn’t clear it on pull

[glass mortar]

well as fatebound u dont wanna waste the coin procs from casting adr on the boss

[safe pasture]

Feels bad but let’s you get away with downtime and not loose ar

[glass mortar]

u dont generally wanna pre adr anymore

especially since it resets ur cp

[safe pasture]

I just do it there so I’m not giga fucked early with no ar

[glass mortar]

i mean ur no more fucked precasting it then u are casting it as u land

ur just missing out on coins

[safe pasture]

I mean more so I tend you loose up time by not being able to touch anything when doing mechs so it’s like an ar sitting in the bag incase I need it

Cause when I say I’m lost on that shit I mean it

[glass mortar]

what does that have to do with precasting it vs casting it as u land tho

[safe pasture]

Assuming you aren’t insta pulling you have ar back up on pull

With a full ar already up

[glass mortar]

oh you mean precasting it 3 minutes before the pull

[safe pasture]

Ya immediately on res

[glass mortar]

[safe pasture]

It’s tuff out here

[glass mortar]

i mean if thats an option its probably technically some 0.0x% gain on every boss in the raid

but for most people thats not an option

[safe pasture]

It’s the only one I’ve needed it for and it’s just because I legit omega suck on it

[inland acorn]

If you're having 3 min breaks between pulls

Idk

[glass mortar]

if u hold adr when u land and dont use the macro opener with 2set ur not auto proccing ur lucky coin on pull tho

which can be pretty bad depending on ur rng

[safe pasture]

You ain’t in the pug streets boi

Only time we having fast pulls is when we close to clearing it

[inland acorn]

Why would I be

[safe pasture]

Only option I got haha

[inland acorn]

Why

[safe pasture]

No guild

[inland acorn]

Just join one ?

There's a lot of HC guilds

that are chilling

[safe pasture]

Can’t be reliable enough I work random days on the road

Might have a full week to grind or might be in a hotel in another state for a week

Never know

[still matrix]

Is outlaw gonna get nerfs? I hprayge nooo

[glass mortar]

🙂

[desert tendon]

:)

[midnight granite]

If they nerf us we just make a Twitter post and close the discord while @ everyone

[inland acorn]

Not enough outlaw players for them to care

[midnight granite]

All 12 of us

[inland acorn]

[crystal scroll]

outlaw is in like the bottom 5 specs in danger of nerfs

[midnight granite]

Idk have your seen weeks 1 and 2

Logs say we blast

[still matrix]

Blizz just look at numbers then slam us...

like week 1 of expansion lol

[desert tendon]

outlaw deserves a nerf

if we dont get nerfed

i leave this discord

[midnight granite]

[formal ruin]

anyone having success with fatebound on m+ ?

[vivid vessel]

dont play fatebound in m+

it just bad

[formal ruin]

*sad noises

[vivid vessel]

im so confused

where do i watch these pannels

[red zinc]

no clue either

[vivid vessel]

the main wow channel only have the pvp things and shit

i dont get it

[round compass]

I had 13 lucky coins on a nexus king pull last night, woweeee

[vivid vessel]

its just a 1h break in the main braodcast

cvan we just not watch it lol

[red zinc]

they didnt say too much today anyway

talent one is saturday

[vivid vessel]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bbf-yR7EK4k

like

[red zinc]

ill see if i can actually figure out how to watch it this time

[vivid vessel]

where are these

from

they just released random shorts

of ion talking

[red zinc]

ye

[vivid vessel]

but

idk

[gaunt phoenix]

the communication for this xpac stuff has felt strange

[vivid vessel]

ye idk im honestly so confused

there are shorts with ion talking

but i have no idea where i can see ion talking

in full

[buoyant cosmos]

I think they said they will upload them afterwards

[vivid vessel]

how come its not in the main broadcast tho

[buoyant cosmos]

No clue tbh

[vivid vessel]

they have a live up 24/7

with just a break

[buoyant cosmos]

This has been all sloppy

[vivid vessel]

anytime there is devs stuffs

[buoyant cosmos]

Like you've been saying

[tender breach]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rotund haven]

Am I bad or does our AoE feel pretty lackluster in comparison to other specs

[vivid vessel]

ye it is

bf got nerfed by more than 10%

going from 11.1 to 11.2

anhd our st is trash

[rotund haven]

Ty Zac…thought I was going crazy forgot about the BF nerf

[vivid vessel]

i mean even without the bf nerf

you are doing like

10% less st

than you should be doing

whcih also translate to aoe so

[rotund haven]

Surprisingly ST fights have felt pretty good in keys

But for example first pull of gambit with all the murloks I am always behind other dps

[gaunt phoenix]

well that would happen anyway cuz we are capped

[vivid vessel]

meh

[gaunt phoenix]

even if we were tuned as good as s2

[vivid vessel]

last season

we would catch up

now i need half a dungeon to catch up

for a big pull

[buoyant cosmos]

First sentence zac

[vivid vessel]

ok

well

it says shortly after

its been 4 h

can they release them

or

[buoyant cosmos]

Oh

They forgor

[serene cosmos]

Zac, was on your stream earlier, wtf is that damages ?

[vivid vessel]

idk what you mean

is it low or high

[serene cosmos]

High as fck

[midnight granite]

Can't be high outlaw in the bin

[vivid vessel]

well ye

i do damage

[midnight granite]

Havoc dh doing like double my st

[vivid vessel]

im in a comp that do routes around me

[serene cosmos]

He was 10 M overall

[vivid vessel]

and i have 15% aura buffs in my comp

[serene cosmos]

But yes, I saw monk/Fury/Feral

[midnight granite]

He probably has 10 ilvls on most players

Or more

[serene cosmos]

And sham

[vivid vessel]

i dont actually

[serene cosmos]

No, he got less than me bruh

You 704 ?

[vivid vessel]

my gear is prolly worse than most people here for now

[buoyant cosmos]

He's built different

[vivid vessel]

early prog is weird

[midnight granite]

He's just a normal rogue bro smh

[buoyant cosmos]

Did you finally get 4pc?

Gz

[vivid vessel]

ye of course

[serene cosmos]

My guilldie plays Brewmaster

I wonder if it would be worth going outlaw and play same comp than you

[rotund zodiac]

I miss rolling 5 buffs

[vivid vessel]

assa gonna do better still

but outlaw is fun

[buoyant cosmos]

Phys is fun

[serene cosmos]

I don assa

I sub atm

[vivid vessel]

sub is gonna do better

but outlaw is fun

[serene cosmos]

Cba playing assa for a third tier

[rotund zodiac]

Sin ST is

[buoyant cosmos]

Real

[rotund zodiac]

my ADHD ass can't wait for energy pool

I wanna keep spamming buttons

[serene cosmos]

You don't have to pool

[rotund zodiac]

not anymore?

[stiff vector]

maybe sub for dimensius tho, cuz holy fuck they could not design a fight that trolls outlaw more if they tried

[serene cosmos]

just waiting for 50 energy to send another spell

[glass mortar]

i might ask to just play my monk whenever they want me in on dimi farm stuff

really cba with that fight

10 pulls was too many

it aged me 10 years i swear

[serene cosmos]

I agree, gonna play it a bit now ks is cool

[rotund haven]

You guys running double focusing lens for embelishment?

[rotund zodiac]

yea

[toxic laurel]

i feel like its so shit doesn't scale with our current ilvl at all

[glass mortar]

all embelishments are shit

[gaunt phoenix]

lens does scale with ilvl

[glass mortar]

u can generally pyf the gaps are so small between them anyway

[gaunt phoenix]

i mean it's 1.2% of your damage it's just a cute proc

[glass mortar]

lens is just easy because u can put it on weapons and jewlery which u cant with duskthread

so depending on what spots u have optimal crafted in double duskthread might be tough

[toxic laurel]

ah yeah true

[gaunt phoenix]

yall are gonna hate me for what is happening to fatebound

[vivid vessel]

meh

i kinda like vanishing into gs

fun new minigame

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah i like it too

idk how to explain the bte thing though

[vivid vessel]

well i dont think its real

cause it would mean delaying your gcd

also your macro thing isnt real either

it doesnt matter that a vanish gs bte macro doesnt refresh bte cd

you only need a gs bte macro anyway if you wanna use a macro

and that will work all the time

but using that means you need to delay your gcd

so idk

[gaunt phoenix]

ya i got that

[vivid vessel]

i dont think the bte thing need to be a thing

or can be a thing

like is it even wortth it

[willow portal]

that delve thing isnt as good in aoe right?

[vivid vessel]

if you always delay your gcd by like 100ms

proly more

[gaunt phoenix]

i think you macro GS BTE and if it works it works

if it doesnt it doesnt

[vivid vessel]

ye

hm

[gaunt phoenix]

but also a small global delay is maybe worth the coins

[vivid vessel]

eh i guess imma just make a fb only macro

[gaunt phoenix]

you know

[vivid vessel]

and that will be it

maybe

[torpid fiber]

I'm scared for what we're doing if we have to deal with macro bullshit

[vivid vessel]

first time

dont forget ho audacity

bnever got fixed

[torpid fiber]

no but this is unusual macro bullshit

[vivid vessel]

cause devs are jsut lazy

[torpid fiber]

I think about it all the time

[gaunt phoenix]

we're going to use vanish into ghostly strike, no macro needed, no bug abuse, it's good every time

but it seems you can also bte at the same time and maybe bug yourself into some extra coins

[torpid fiber]

have fun implementing this in simc

[glass mortar]

wait why like

if u bte at the same time is it always flipping the same coins from that bte as the ghostly match flip

or something

[gaunt phoenix]

Vanish into GS is 3 heads 3 tails

Then if you bte normally, the expected result is 5 heads 0 tails (or vice versa)

But it seems possible to GS BTE at the same time and you up with 5 heads 3 tails (or some other fucked up result)

[glass mortar]

.....

[gaunt phoenix]

But you would have to delay the gcd to do it

[keen belfry]

#killsolo

im hitting dummies rn as fateboud outlaw

f u solo

i do like vanish into gs mini game

[vivid vessel]

so easy

[torpid fiber]

This further supports my theory that there's some kind of server tick bullshit going on

My money is still on it being tied to stealth somehow

[covert kestrel]

i think it has to do with haste and gcd

[gaunt phoenix]

So we are going to vanish into gs, and gs + bte macro, which may have some happy bug behavior, or it may just do nothing

Either way vanish gs is a gain

[glass mortar]

so r we holdin gs for these vanishes if its nearly vanish time, cause a macro is w/e

i assume theres more jank to this

[gaunt phoenix]

I will explain it but no, you are mostly holding vanish for GS, not the other way around

[glass mortar]

yeye that one

listen holding vanish for ghostly is less cringe then holding vanish to react to an RP proc off cto so

[torpid fiber]

What range of gain?

[covert kestrel]

solo needs to step out of the kitchen, he cookin too hard

[gaunt phoenix]

It's like 1.8% atm

[torpid fiber]

Oh shit

That's a lot

[gaunt phoenix]

It is

[vivid vessel]

including the oepner ?

[gaunt phoenix]

The opener thing was assumed to happen already

I think it's cause RP is active so often already

And the rule was just "vanish with RP"

[craggy quiver]

So solo we should have a vanish + gs macro ?

[gaunt phoenix]

So there was already room to flex vanish

[vivid vessel]

no you want a gs bte macro

[late swallow]

holding vanish for GS

[craggy quiver]

Bte + gs macro huhh

[quaint tiger]

fuck me dimensius is horrible on outlaw

any tips?

[vivid vessel]

[torpid fiber]

If we find enough fatebound bugs maybe the spec will be good on fractilus

[late swallow]

you know outlaw is so back when we're doing bullshit like this

[glass mortar]

play something else

[torpid fiber]

get a second dagger

[glass mortar]

worst fight theyve made for outlaw in years

[quaint tiger]

xD

[glass mortar]

there is no way to make it less miserable or ur damage more useful

every phase of the fight fucks u somehow

[craggy quiver]

Yep lol

[glass mortar]

try to save adr for the flights during intermissions since they happen with exact circumstances (boss dying in p1, adds dying in p2) but that isnt always going to work out and theres nothing u can do to fix that

best u can do is try to make sure u have a vanish and adr for after the second add in p2 as you can vanish restealth after he drags u up and it wont break

thats the only way i found to not do sub tank damage during the damage amp

🙂

thats the goal

[craggy quiver]

Dunno shit dies too fast in heroic

[torpid fiber]

Sub is pretty good so sub tank damage can't be too bad

[craggy quiver]

By the time u get buffs out the add is dead

[glass mortar]

mhm

i mean u usually just get to restart on every platform and then dont have full time to build up on a platform before dropping everything again

also the walls being entirely targetable entities fucks up ur ability to even do damage to the adds on platform anyway for large parts of it

try to stand away from them when ur not actively cleaving

we love fatebound

[craggy quiver]

True nice tip for about the cleave

Lol

[gaunt phoenix]

The weird thing about fatebound is you are optimizing for invisible damage

With trickster at least playing the optimizations = more coups

[glass mortar]

yea

imagine if lucky coin had an actual visual payoff

or did anything

[craggy quiver]

It does shoot out a coin!

That you can los

Apparently

[gaunt phoenix]

The coin actually does fly back to you

[glass mortar]

a visual payoff it took us 3 seasons to even notice is not a visual payoff

we dont pretend in here

[gaunt phoenix]

[craggy quiver]

It's something

[glass mortar]

😠

[craggy quiver]

[desert tendon]

[digital linden]

so now we dont send GS without vanish and we hold vanish for gs?

[loud wolf]

Anyone know if warpclaw is bugged? 0 procs last 2 dungeons

[toxic laurel]

that doesnt seem normal at all are you sure ?

[keen belfry]

is this working @gaunt phoenix

did i get the correct amount of flips

[torpid fiber]

Why is there a pyramid

[random stirrup]

I still can’t believe awang found a worse icon for gs than zac did

Crazy work

[keen belfry]

[vivid vessel]

i know right

[random stirrup]

Eviscerate is criminal

[keen belfry]

ok sub rogue

[covert kestrel]

make it sec tech, its the most ghostly image

[vivid vessel]

👻

[vivid vessel]

[buoyant cosmos]

So HD

[glass mortar]

the rabbit is perfect

[keen belfry]

🙁

[lime lake]

just use old killing spree icon

next to new killing spree icon

[glass mortar]

ok but consider that if you swapped the icons and shifted the rabbit about 30 pixels up

it would look like killing spree is shooting the rabbit

and that would be very funny

i never did get my broadside WA completed

[gaunt phoenix]

You got 5/2 coins which is a possible bugged result

[keen belfry]

hmm that macro works then

[digital linden]

what does this mean

[gaunt phoenix]

so we are going to vanish into ghostly strike

this is good

but they are off gcd

we can also vanish into ghostly strike + bte, where you try to gs and bte at the same time

But since bte is on the gcd

And gs is not

The gcd has to be ready if you want to successfully use them both at the same time

[glass mortar]

its the same idea as the vanish bte macro people use to try to avoid reseting mobs

it only works if you "wait" to be off the gcd and use it

cause otherwise the macro will just vanish immediatly and queue up bte to fire when the gcd ends

which will nearly always be delayed slightly since u press ur buttons during the gcd

in this case the interaction i assume is that bte going off at the same instance as the vanish and ghostly is bugging out how many coins it generates

so if you have a 0.2s delay in the bte going off due to gcd, it wont get the bonus coins

[frail veldt]

Wtf 12???

[glass mortar]

its the 5/2 innit

not the 12

[gaunt phoenix]

thats not relevant he just happened to get 12 before vanish

[frail veldt]

I didn't even know you could get to 12

[gaunt phoenix]

There are simc iterations that get >30 of a coin

Anything can happen in 60,000 pulls

[frail veldt]

Ah so after 7 it can stack indefinitely

[gaunt phoenix]

Ya

[frail veldt]

Gotcha

But yeah playing with a gs+bte macro feels pretty good

Had to put it on a new bind

So I have two new binds now

One for GS bte

One for cancel stealth GS adr rtb

[glass mortar]

how far has this been explored btw solo like

does the bte need to be in the same moment as vanish

could u just macro ghostly and bte together

[zenith egret]

Dilemma.. Should I take gloves to get rid of old set for good or should I take pants and wait for catalyst next week.. (Curio in bag for last part)

[frail veldt]

Other way around

Bte and GS need to happen at the same time

[glass mortar]

yes that was my second option

:p

[frail veldt]

But yeah don't vanish on gcd

Is the big thing

[glass mortar]

well

[near rock]

@vivid vessel my guild is now 2 normal + 2 heroic soul hunters kills, and ZERO leather boots across any

[frail veldt]

Or vanish late into t

[near rock]

[glass mortar]

does it matter if u vanish on the gcd

if u delay the ghostly and bte

and they still go off at the same time

[frail veldt]

Yeah but that's worse for your DPS

But yeah you get it

[glass mortar]

doesnt rlly matter 0.2s of not autoing

people vanish on the gcd all the time anyway

[frail veldt]

I mean 0.2 of no FF procs

[glass mortar]

im just asking about the bug interaction

[frail veldt]

But yeah interaction is both going off to break stealth

[vivid vessel]

haha gg, my rogue split has not seen a single hc zenith drop yet, for both weeks

[glass mortar]

so like

r the boots bugged in sims or

they always sim as such am inor upgrade for me

i assume they r turbo bis

im surprised such a small gain outweights any other boots tho

[keen belfry]

we had 4 leather boots drop last week xd

[glass mortar]

herioc boots sim for like 0.7% over my current herioc boots

(which are normal boots)

[gaunt phoenix]

they aren't bugged to my knowledge

[glass mortar]

just not as big a bonus effect as i expected i guess

wonder what it is for other people

[buoyant cosmos]

How many do you guys do?

[vivid vessel]

3 splits

[toxic laurel]

For me it was 120k DPS flgain or something

[vivid vessel]

i just mean thje one my rogue is in

[buoyant cosmos]

Yeah I got that

Just wondered how many total

[glass mortar]

this cape proc seems a bit wonky ngl, ive seen pulls of 5 minute fights where i had 1/3rd the procs of other people

its a high enough rppm i feel like it should be more normalized then this

[near rock]

[digital linden]

@gaunt phoenix since we now vanish without ruthless precision but you shouldnt vanish without bte on cd do we just ignore the bte part?

[gaunt phoenix]

idk we always act like this for any important proc

[glass mortar]

ok but

i had 17 cape hits on a 6 minute dimi kill

the average cape procs across the whole raid was 38

the minimum other person i found had 30

the highest had 58

[gaunt phoenix]

its like 2 rppm

[glass mortar]

very strange

[keen belfry]

aoe?

[glass mortar]

its rppm aoe shouldnt effect it

[tepid skiff]

splits have killed wow

[gaunt phoenix]

i will explain it properly with a pin and such after some more testing, but yes, you will vanish into GS now, that is THE rule

you still vanish if capped on charges/for AR of course

[tepid skiff]

its bricked

[vivid vessel]

idk

i like having gear early

without relying on rng

i hate gear rng

[tepid skiff]

ok i should rephrase

[vivid vessel]

well i hate gear in general

well for world first its a bit degenerate tho

[tepid skiff]

the fact that guilds rank 10-100 require u to participate in splits is bricked

[vivid vessel]

hm

idk

haha

[tepid skiff]

like idk man i swaer it didnt exist just 1 year ago

[vivid vessel]

i do enjoy getting my gear xd

ye

[gaunt phoenix]

@glass mortar normal boots (30%) is 1.4% here

[glass mortar]

yea thats about how smol i think itd be for me if i took stats into account since i have haste boots on

[frail veldt]

is it that low?

[glass mortar]

good to know

[frail veldt]

I get like 180 in a dungeon

[tepid skiff]

yeahhh im torn maybe im just old fashioned

[tepid skiff]

idk the only reason it feels good to get the gear tho is because everyone else is getting the gear cuz theyre doing splits, so u dont really feel good, u just dont feel bad about having no gear (i think)

[frail veldt]

weirdge

[tepid skiff]

like if nobody was doing splits, ud be just as powerful relatively at 695 ilv as u are right now at 702-705 or whatever

[gaunt phoenix]

but also understand that 2 rppm means that is basically the minimum you will pretty much always roll better than 2 per minute

[frail veldt]

oh nvm im dumb im thinking of hits

[vivid vessel]

it lets me go earlier into m+ aswell, thats a thing i enjoy

[frail veldt]

its aoe

[vivid vessel]

you are right that for raid its just baseline gear going up

[tepid skiff]

ya but u could go into m+ rn if nobody did splits

just instead of 17 ud be doing 16

and itd still be rank 1

[vivid vessel]

yeee

[honest yarrow]

Hey all, quick question. Is old tier fucky with sims? I just simmed 8 target AoE pull and it says I’m losing over 1M dps by breaking up 4set for 2pc/2pc but when I actually beat up on the dummies for an extended amount of time, I’ve lost dps.

[vivid vessel]

idk

bro

im ngl

i just

i feel bad

[buoyant cosmos]

Do you think they tune all of these fights with X# of splits in mind for rwf?

[vivid vessel]

till im full geared

[glass mortar]

trickster doesnt break for 2/2

[vivid vessel]

so i just wanna get to the full geared part earlier

[frail veldt]

its the fomo of gearing

[glass mortar]

also dont forget to swap sleight for loaded dice in ur sims if ur breaking 4set

[tepid skiff]

they tune around rwf for sure

[frail veldt]

you get beat on meters by people playing shit

[tepid skiff]

i dont think they literally calculate x# of splits

[glass mortar]

u need to give it both talent builds

[tepid skiff]

just more metrics like avg ilv and dps

[glass mortar]

or it will not accuratly sim ur non 4set dps

[frail veldt]

well not the heroic fights doesnt seem

[buoyant cosmos]

Yeah just a random number they'd expect

[tepid skiff]

yeah i feel this

[tepid skiff]

well no

[gaunt phoenix]

im not sure i understand, you say sim says you lose dps, and then you say you lose dps in game, is there a discrepancy

[tepid skiff]

cuz heroic is not the rwf

[jolly geyser]

do the rwf people have like 7 alts?

[desert tendon]

Fk splits

Boring

[honest yarrow]

That’s what I’m told yes, but the numbers on sim aren’t backing up what I’m doing on testing. I’m also not playing KiR

Haste too low

[tepid skiff]

15

[honest yarrow]

Playing HO

[frail veldt]

Yeah they were saying splits so I figured that meant heroic

[vivid vessel]

7

[jolly geyser]

oh,you would know lol

[desert tendon]

7 alts was in SL

[buoyant cosmos]

Hopeful had 17 mages or something

[desert tendon]

[vivid vessel]

bro hopeful already had like 8 on his new account

[glass mortar]

you said in ur post that breaking 4set simmed as a loss, and that on ur dummies it was a loss

[tepid skiff]

oh idk. i took it to mean like do they tune mythic around having done x# of heroic/normal splits

[vivid vessel]

made litteraly last week

[late swallow]

James the goat back on rogue

[glass mortar]

what is conflicting here

[vivid vessel]

[late swallow]

Welcome home king

[honest yarrow]

No

[frail veldt]

aaaaaaaaaah yeah they def tune around an intended ilvl that makes sense

[honest yarrow]

On dummies I am doing less

With old 4set

[frail veldt]

as you should

[glass mortar]

not if ur playing trickster

[honest yarrow]

I don’t have new 4set

[glass mortar]

but dummy tests arent the same as sims

[late swallow]

Is a dummy test when you’re playing?

[glass mortar]

theres alot of variance in outlaws damage from pull to pull which is why dummy tests are mostly for ur playstyle not for numbers

[honest yarrow]

Does ilvl matter? My old tier is very low ilvl, like 645

[late swallow]

[gaunt phoenix]

not following what the issue or expected result is supposed to be

[glass mortar]

yes ilvl matters which is what sims are for

the issue is the sim says they lost dps breaking old 4set but when playing with old 4set on dummies they are losing dps

[honest yarrow]

It seems insane that 645 4set is beating out 691 current gear

[buoyant cosmos]

They may have pigeonholed themselves. They can tune it high to err for outliers in splits, but that just makes people do more to flesh out the best toon

[frail veldt]

so youre comparing old 4 set to new regular items?

[glass mortar]

to 2set/2set

as trickster

which is not a gain for most

[frail veldt]

well you tune around skill level too

you make things 1 shot haha

[buoyant cosmos]

True that

[frail veldt]

so gearing only gets you so far

but they def also do have gear checks

like burn phases

[glass mortar]

ur also not hitting 8 targets

[frail veldt]

or just amping aoe damage for healer checks

tank busters

etc

[frail veldt]

ah did he sim it too?

[honest yarrow]

What I’m having trouble grasping is the amount of dps I’m losing in sims seems insane considering I am dropping like 6 item levels to keep the tier set intact

[glass mortar]

.

[honest yarrow]

And the testing doesn’t even bear it out

[frail veldt]

oh

yeah so thats expected

[glass mortar]

yes 2set/2set is not good for trickster

[frail veldt]

well your testing is probably not reflective of the sim

the sim is a perfect player

[gaunt phoenix]

i think the HO build you are playing is basically enabled by the old tier and is much worse with new tier

[glass mortar]

but 1 million dps at 8 targets where u might be simming like 10m right now

[frail veldt]

you may be making some mistakes that devalue old 4 piece

[glass mortar]

is like 10%

oh i dont even know what build ur doing these sims for yea im thinking about trickster kir

if ur playing some HO builds there might be more talent changes involved

[honest yarrow]

It’s HO

I’m having trouble finding haste gear

And jewelry

[buoyant cosmos]

Do you have old sparks?

[honest yarrow]

Some yeah