there was also a really cool trinket in siege
#outlaw
wintry solar
Any more cp gen and it almost defeats the purpose of removing it in the first place
fathom bramble
I mean the point of removing it was almost certainly to trim the number of spells we could theoretically take at the same time
wintry solar
Which is stupid tbh
hasty warren
it can be on a double talent
fathom bramble
it definitely could have been a choice node with tea or something
hasty warren
i hate tea
torpid fiber
Did they ever fix Tea or is it still gigafucked for no reason
wintry solar
What's wrong with tea
fathom bramble
to some extent it makes more sense for the choice node to be 2 things that are more different than just being double CP generation
hasty warren
What's wrong with tea
auto use
wintry solar
Oh yeah
torpid fiber
What's wrong with tea
The auto use part
wintry solar
That's dumb
fathom bramble
they also made the auto use in a very annoying way
it should auto use when you try to cast something without enough energy
instead of just happening at x energy
hasty warren
it should auto use when you try to cast something without enough energy
it's not the case ?
wintry solar
No
hasty warren
bruh
wintry solar
It's like 30% energy I think
fathom bramble
it happens if a cast leaves you below 30 energy
hasty warren
...
fathom bramble
so even though you might not actually be out of energy and will regen to 50 for another ambush or whatever
it gets auto used at 30
more of a problem for sin than us as I understand it
since casting at the wrong time can just waste a charge when you want it for kingsbane
wintry solar
Well
In the future it could be a problem
Maybe one day they make outlaw want to use tea at specific times
hasty warren
and u want to manage mastery buff too no ? as assa
wintry solar
Via mastery rework or whatever
fair oak
You just want tea up when you shiv
wintry solar
Whenever there's a change, I think about how it could effect us in the future.
fair oak
Besides that idk it's whatever
I'm debating crafting a sword for outlaw next week
Man idk I don't like kir
It just feels slower than ho idk why
wintry solar
You don't like pressing sinister strike 4 times in a row back to back?
Why?
Weirdo
fair oak
I do not
fair oak
I dont even notice hitting ambush
wintry solar
How could it be shit
fair oak
It just feels like cp generation is better on ho
wintry solar
It is
torpid fiber
I hate pressing ambush it hurts my brain
dawn talon
takes a total of 3 points to be a pressable button and stops you from taking tight spender
random stirrup
ambush is soo expensive
dawn talon
and makes cp wastage an issue
and costs a trillion energy
just a shit button
ho and audacity have to be super overbudgeted talents to make up for the flaws of ambush itself so that it's at all pressable and then it just crowds out everything else
fair oak
Can't lie I never notice any of that but yeah you're right
hasty warren
kir >>> ho
dawn talon
you don't notice it while playing because the tuning for audacity and ho make up for it
but it just annoys me conceptually
fathom bramble
audacity and ho should be swapped in the tree
dawn talon
so much that i wish they would replace ho with some other build simpler than kir (bc one needs to exist)
wintry solar
Luckily we have an infinite amount of energy. Except when we drop adr and have none.
fathom bramble
with potentially a %ambush damage attached to audacity so it's not useless
hasty warren
ok but when gsw build ?
wintry solar
Tomorrow
torpid fiber
they should just remove deeper stratagem
fathom bramble
the fact that kir vanishes just to use the worlds shittiest generator is awful to me
wintry solar
When they announce talent revamp 2.0
torpid fiber
I hate it it makes builder variance feel so much worse
wintry solar
It does nothing but make downtime worse
dawn talon
but i think they should get rid of ho and audacity to give us some kind of spec specific ambush replacement that sucks less
hasty warren
why is ambush an outlaw thing
torpid fiber
DS + bonus cp on generators means we build basically the same way as we did at 5cp but with a way more miserable lowroll
wintry solar
Is that the one the gives fw?
wintry solar
why is ambush an outlaw thing
It's in the name
hasty warren
It's in the name
wdym
fathom bramble
DS + bonus cp on generators means we build basically the same way as we did at 5...
the answer here could also be to move some of our CP gen out of the rng parts and into the static parts
wintry solar
Ambush, outlaw. Get it?
hasty warren
hmm
fathom bramble
for example if SS was 2 CP on the first hit and fan was worse
hasty warren
no
dawn talon
btw, fatebound is terrible on dimensius no?
bc you're going to be near voidwardens so often in p2
just losing a hero talent for the entire phase
torpid fiber
the answer here could also be to move some of our CP gen out of the rng parts an...
I feel like at that point surely it's better to cut DS and then reduce cp gen in general
wintry solar
And buff ace
torpid fiber
It's better than nothing but still worse than just pulling cp gen back to sane levels
hasty warren
ace is 5% rn ?
wintry solar
Yeah
hasty warren
kek
fathom bramble
no
torpid fiber
fight is so fun to watch
hasty warren
im so sad outlwa is just gonna be bad on it
why ?
vivid vessel
because sub is so good
and damage amps
and the boss is perfect for 1min30 cds
and outlaw damage profile just sucks
you either play fb and do 0 aoe 0 prio
or play trickster and do 0 st
and sub just
plays trickster
do infinite aoe
infinite st
infinite burst
gg
hasty warren
fck it i'll do it as outlaw
vivid vessel
but
like
i wanna play outlaw
on it
so bad
its a 100% uptime boss when you are on plateform
hasty warren
🤝
vivid vessel
super mechanical
idk
its a very cool boss
just the add intermission ruins it for outlaw i think
cause you will do nothing on it
and sub has 1min30 cds on it
hasty warren
it's awful off time
fathom bramble
something is wrong when an add intermission is ruining outlaw
vivid vessel
like without add intermission lok
i would have seen outlaw i think
you just ignore damage amp
fathom bramble
our best fight is unironically a pure ST encounter
vivid vessel
just do more damage cause outalw st is better and 100% uptime
torpid fiber
something is wrong when an add intermission is ruining outlaw
yeah
hasty warren
honnesly if adds was on main plateform it would be better
vivid vessel
ye
hasty warren
but since u have to use cloak ...
torpid fiber
They gotta give us a gcd that just freezes our buffs or smth
vivid vessel
you know assa is 1min30 aswell now lok ?
fathom bramble
yeah
vivid vessel
its crazy lol
hasty warren
kb is 1min30
vivid vessel
like these 2 specs keeps getting infinite things
more and more damage profile improvement
and outlaw is just
getting worse
every tier
fathom bramble
and sometimes that thing is just something outlaw had/has
dawn talon
fr though does anyone know
fathom bramble
at this point I'm expecting deathmark to randomly have 2 charges
dawn talon
if trickster is the wave on dimensius
hasty warren
why have 1min30 cd when u can have no cd ?
vivid vessel
if trickster is the wave on dimensius
nah bro
torpid fiber
I think the strategy on dimensijs is just don't play outlaw if you care about prog
vivid vessel
trickster is 12 % behind
in st
thats not a thing
thats the issue with outlaw rn
loojk
if we were last tier
with trickster being 1% behind st
outlaw would be good
but cause outlaw is tuned around fatebound
its bad
but holy fuck
im so excited to lpay outlaw
hasty warren
fb rework pls
hasty warren
it's not too late
torpid fiber
fb rework pls
the code is lost they can't change it
prisma stag
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
fathom bramble
moving some numbers around on this to make it not cringe would be pretty simple
dawn talon
nah bro
so i just have to play fatebound and position myself in some cringe ass way where im not losing 100 billion damage the whole intermission
on the voidwardens ?
hasty warren
the code is lost they can't change it
the part time worker is moved to assa department
vivid vessel
so i just have to play fatebound and position myself in some cringe ass way wher...
well no
thats not possible
and you just lose damage tiher way
its bad outlaw is bad
cause fatebound
its unlucky
dawn talon
it's just a sub tier man
vivid vessel
fuck man i hope im on this boss quick
im so excited
haha
this raid is sick honestly
wait
dimensuis is trash tho
gg
hasty warren
fb should be active decision making on finishers
vivid vessel
ignore last boss
torpid fiber
who tf here played outlaw in mythic we're the top mythic spec on wcl rn bc of early boss data
fathom bramble
the most important boss in most progression patterns 👌
vivid vessel
who tf here played outlaw in mythic we're the top mythic spec on wcl rn bc of ea...
eh
thats because
people play pc
on 2nd boss
fathom bramble
soulbinder is fake
fathom bramble
PC trickster does absurd pad on the cages
vivid vessel
every single one of these person
hasty warren
who tf here played outlaw in mythic we're the top mythic spec on wcl rn bc of ea...
haven't strat it yet
vivid vessel
that played pc
is stupid
imma just say it
right there
you play pc on prog on this boss you are stupid
thats why outlaw got a bad reputation
hasty warren
pc is uselss on soulbinders
vivid vessel
its pure pad
legit infinite pad
to look good on metter
idk
you have to be the most extreme cringe
to do that on prog
hasty warren
add phase is wild
vivid vessel
but whatever
that boss is a one bang anywya
i just htink its stupid
outlaw will pad overall logs
fathom bramble
I mean yeah even if outlaw is good on it
vivid vessel
cause of one stupid boss
fathom bramble
it's literally a oneshot boss
vivid vessel
where you do irrelevant damage
fathom bramble
doesn't matter
hasty warren
you have to be the most extreme cringe
I tried first pull because I knew we were raiding off soon
vivid vessel
hasty warren
but it's so bad
vivid vessel
i had no weapon lok
this boss damage
against sin i think its pretty decent
i think you could do top boss damage protentially
if i had a main hand
cause like everyone of these rogues got a 720 main hand
so
vivid vessel
i think outlaw is prolly a contender for real spec on that fight
IF
you dont play pc
hasty warren
only aoe build
fathom bramble
I mean in the end it's a fake encounter so
hasty warren
I wonder if deft can be a thing
vivid vessel
no lol
hasty warren
on souls
vivid vessel
bro
hasty warren
idk i'm deft addict
hasty warren
I mean even for cp gen during add phase ?
hasty warren
not twice ?
vivid vessel
i dont remmeber
boss went too fast
we just killed it
its wild the jump in dificulty
from the first 3
to 4th boss
4th boss legit feels as hard as like
idk
hasty warren
we haven't pass first add phase so idk either
hasty warren
kek
fathom bramble
we spent almost no time actually doing mythic this week
hasty warren
it's clearely m+ advantage
vivid vessel
4 days hc nm ?
vivid vessel
haha 2 pull on plexus you noob
fathom bramble
2.5 days of hc/nm and then a .5 day of mythic
vivid vessel
how many splits you do
hasty warren
how long is your raid ?
fathom bramble
2 8/8 normal clears and 2 7/8 heroic clears
vivid vessel
no last boss?
fathom bramble
and then all mains for dimensius H
fathom bramble
running out of time
vivid vessel
yeye i get it
fathom bramble
maybe we could have done it, but it could have put loomi kill at risk
vivid vessel
we spend so much time on splits on first week
vivid vessel
fathom bramble
we spend so much time on splits on first week
I mean if there is going to be some broken tuning wall every tier then you might as well
vivid vessel
ye
you seen what people been doing ?
mythic splits ?
instead of going araz prog
kekw
vivid vessel
ye
its funny
make sense tho
i think the prog time is valuable still
but they are right that its a lot of loot
they did 3 splits of mythic first 3
so
a shit ton of loot
fathom bramble
I think it's also just bad for morale to pull a boss that is functionally impossible
just for it to get nerfed next week
fathom bramble
even if it's good for prog
fathom bramble
gl
vivid vessel
we just get good prog in
we wont kill it
but next week we can kill with gear maybe
or if it gets nerfed
we have an advantage to kill it faster
cause we have the cc rotation and shit down sooner
idk
i think its fine
the mythic splits idea is fun tho
i wonder if thats something that might become meta
for high end guilds
that get stuck
on 4th boss wall
every tier
hasty warren
rashanan 
near rock
2 day guilds 
fathom bramble
the problem is that if no one pulls the 4th boss wall a bunch blizz won't fix it fast
someone has to be the sacrifical guild that pulls an impossible boss
hasty warren
o7
late swallow
2 day guilds <a:gigachad:896520021822554183>
1 day guild, but you raid for 15 hours
cedar kernel
2 days guild
fathom bramble
just 1 day raid per week
fathom bramble
how long is your raid ?
4 hours
late swallow
4 hour raid sesh is just too much
fathom bramble
I don't really mind it with a 10 min break in the middle
a few expacs ago I was in a 4 hour guild that had no break
and that was definitely too much
hasty warren
we're doing 2h30 and I'm so tired at the end
late swallow
I barely made it through a 3 hour sesh
My legs are so tight by the end
And I’m covered in piss
fathom bramble
sounds like your guild might need a 10min break in the middle
hasty warren
And I’m covered in piss
u dont have a drawer ?
hasty warren
sounds like your guild might need a 10min break in the middle
based
late swallow
u dont have a drawer ?
Mom puts a lock on it during raid night 
hasty warren
wasting 10 minutes and gaining 1 hour
vivid vessel
I guess for melee weapons it make sense to send gildeds insta
Eh
Not even
I would have waited first vault I think
fathom bramble
700.75
vivid vessel
Idk
fathom bramble
And did you guys send gildeds or no
idk if we had a specific plan for this that went out, I think people just kind of used their own judgement
fathom bramble
for what we lacked in splits some people went absolutely ham on keys
fathom bramble
I had all 701 watermarked except my gloves
vivid vessel
ye same
nah but i think its just that we dont have people send gildeds
week 1
cuase its useless
unless its like very obvious you know
like i got dagger from loom
fathom bramble
as long as you could get loomi reliably with it for sure
vivid vessel
you just upgrade it
fathom bramble
fathom bramble
yeah I might never equip it
late swallow
oh you got it aswell
Are you sub progging?
vivid vessel
Are you sub progging?
ye
buoyant cosmos
Are you the token rogue in your guild?
vivid vessel
i mean sub is so op this tier
fathom bramble
yes
frail veldt
Good
vivid vessel
i like sub in prog
vivid vessel
always do
so idm much
assa tho
i dont get it
like
the spec is so
easy ?
there is litteraly nothing going on
fathom bramble
nothing going on ever
late swallow
Raid sin is pretty easy
late swallow
Keys sin seems hard idk man
late swallow
Idk what ross does
vivid vessel
i can play gcd perfect sin while playing sin once a year
late swallow
Ross unironically the key sin goat
torpid fiber
Idk what ross does
15 cans of energy drink
vivid vessel
ok but m+ is diff som
im talking about raid sin
raid sin is like
not real bor
late swallow
Yeah that’s what I said earlier
vivid vessel
2 button spec
late swallow
Raid sin is zzzzzzz
vivid vessel
@fathom bramble i even kept my ambush bind on sin for the proc
to spice it up a bit
even tho it replace mutilate
torpid fiber
I'm sure I could manage to be ass as sin in raid
vivid vessel
their auda proc
vivid vessel
I'm sure I could manage to be ass as sin in raid
bro its legit impossible
you press 3 buttons in order
sometimes they shuffle a bit between tiers
then you just spam mutilate envenom
the whole fight
cinder relic
Sin is chill 
vivid vessel
ga ga gou
hasty warren
sin is boring
vivid vessel
spec for legit 5 year olds
torpid fiber
maybe I should learn it for raid then
surely I won't regret setting up another weakaura set
vivid vessel
or grandmas
vivid vessel
Sin is chill <:garf:1320173032743899157>
guy
i think you should make another tweet
you know how you made that tweet
late swallow
Sin is the accessibility spec
fathom bramble
i can play gcd perfect sin while playing sin once a year
yeah idk needing to drop in on sin for Uunat in a new guild
vivid vessel
where you were countertweeting that sub was op
fathom bramble
I read the apl once or twice
vivid vessel
and finally ity was a sin tier
fathom bramble
and beat the other 2 sin rogues with virtually no prep
vivid vessel
since you were wrong you should just do another
late swallow
We need more guy tweets
fathom bramble
I know that was 2000 years ago but like
vivid vessel
since we are in a sub tier ojce again
fathom bramble
it's not like sin has changed since theen
late swallow
Love guy tweets
pearl niche
Hey quick question, does Tazavesh both Gambit and Streets share loot pool? Items from both can drop in either one?
vivid vessel
no
pearl niche
Thank you!! @vivid vessel 
torpid fiber
I played sin as a new player in legion and quit it after it sucked levelling to 120 in bfa
hasty warren
I can't sleep, I want to play
fathom bramble
I'm perma torn between "Sin should never be optimal since it's trivial to play" and "All players deserve a spec they enjoy playing to be decent"
vivid vessel
sin has been what outlaw plaer have wished for litteralty every tier
like its not sub in prog
but its sin
hasty warren
I'm perma torn between "Sin should never be optimal since it's trivial to play" ...
BM top meta is a mistake imo
muted iron
i wanna go back to raid
a shame eu servers are about to shutdown lol
hasty warren
but sin idk
vivid vessel
@fathom bramble did you do kyveza btw
hasty warren
I want that outlaw can be in top dps specs but only is ure realy good on it. A high skill variance spec
fathom bramble
<@101843879791177728> did you do kyveza btw
no
fathom bramble
I didn't realize it was even open last week until the last day
and had other shit I wanted to do so I only sent like an hour of pulls
fathom bramble
cool fight for sure
vivid vessel
and on nexus king
fathom bramble
got her to 22% and figured I would come back alter
vivid vessel
you have the same ghost mechanic
you know
you have to face 3 guys
its gonna be so funny
yuou will see who killed kyveza and who didnt
on nexus prog
cinder relic
since you were wrong you should just do another
I'll just say its a sub/sin tier on midnight launch
fathom bramble
I mean at this point you could probably just say that every tier and be right
vivid vessel
its always a sub tioer
what boss is sin actually better
like actual
fractilus
i guess
and loom
who cares
fathom bramble
you think sub is better on the DH boss or no?
hasty warren
what if adr can stack up ? like u press it when u already have it and duration is added not reseted
fathom bramble
what if adr can stack up ? like u press it when u already have it and duration i...
then you could actually bank duration for a rainy day similar to 2 charges
than sin
vivid vessel
bro sin on dh boss is idk
you dont wanna do that
you have to play ds
and like
swap target perma
maybe its better
but idk
i think exile played sin
and the other 2 rogues were sub
i think its an outlaw bsos tho
fr fr
no capi
hasty warren
then you could actually bank duration for a rainy day similar to 2 charges
y u're right
fathom bramble
letting it stack to like 40 seconds might look a bit weird
but it would help with our downtime constraints to some extent
torpid fiber
2 charges is just the best easy fix
fathom bramble
it absolutely should at least pandemic though
virtually every other maintence buff does
hasty warren
2 charges is just the best easy fix
y it would fix so much
torpid fiber
means you can make forced downtime slightly less cringe mostly
vivid vessel
with adr pandemic ?
torpid fiber
Oh pandemic yeah that does nothing much
hasty warren
pandemic ?
pine garden
Doesn't the fact that you can dot the dhs and have them take damage during intermission automatically make sin the spec of choice ?
fathom bramble
idk 6 extra seconds at the end where AR would have otherwise already been gone to try and get it back
vivid vessel
Doesn't the fact that you can dot the dhs and have them take damage during inter...
No lol
Also outlaw can bte them during intermission
fathom bramble
if anything this specific interaction favors outlaw since you can mouseover/focus macro them
hollow kestrel
went 2-0 and lock 6-0 🙁
pine garden
I heard dots specs were dominating that fight
vivid vessel
ye well assa isnt a dot spec
and when they say dot spec
they mean spread cleave dot spec
fathom bramble
I didn't have lucky coin for the first 60 seconds of our loomi kill ? @vivid vessel
how did I fuck up the macro
vivid vessel
ye thats a skill issue for sure
hasty warren
hope i'll get tier set one day
gaunt phoenix
looks like a small delay between ar and gs
hasty warren
macro only sent me to 5 and then I went 6 1
maybe u was not in range for gs
fathom bramble
wouldn't the GS simply not fire in that case
teal garnet
Dimensius so jank without stealth open T.T
hasty warren
wouldn't the GS simply not fire in that case
y it's weird so
fathom bramble
yeah every other pull they are at almost the exact same moment
and that one is just delayed for some reason
junior coral
what is this lol =/
hallow spoke
Dimensius so jank without stealth open T.T
Idk, felt fine to get 2 BTE into KS
Playing FB anyway
cedar kernel
already heroic 1-3 still no set
vivid vessel
i also have a small delay
cedar kernel
this game is broken
cedar kernel
is it possible to make a 704 second craft?
i need a bot might be
cinder relic
Next week yes
cedar kernel
oh so its next week things, i saw zac has a 704 craft thought its something craft tech i miss ty guy
vivid vessel
When you get aotc
cinder relic
If u killed dimensius you get a heroic crest to craft an item with
vivid vessel
Ye
cinder relic
It can be normal dimensius
vivid vessel
I used it on my alts
cinder relic
ITs just the campaign quest
vivid vessel
You have to finisht the campaign on main and then you can skip on alts bac
hallow spoke
Btw is it even possible to play law full myth prog or do I need to prep sub
How doomed is it
vivid vessel
Idk
I think it's genuinely one of the worse outlaw tier haha
Like outlaw last tier was way better
If you could just not die from killing spree
hallow spoke
Ye I missed last tier prog, only played end of it
void monolith
Hey guys
I have a question about KiR FB Outlaw Rogue. I've been playing since S2 with Trickster KiR (for m+) and never had issue with Energy regen. I tried raid with FB talents and noticed I dont have enough energy regen my haste is at 20%. So I wondered if this is normal or just me playing bad
cinder relic
Sin and sub are very broken is part of the issue
void monolith
I've found FB decent
I just open with adrenaline and try to keep as long as possible with vanish
Tried a lot on patchwerk and I just dont get enough enery to play it decently
frail veldt
!gear
ornate heathBOT
cedar kernel
You have to finisht the campaign on main and then you can skip on alts bac
yea i already finish it, all i need to do is to wait next wekk then i could make 704 ring
i miss DF catalyst
friendly to non-raid player
first week to get 4 pc
or 2nd week
vivid vessel
Sin and sub are very broken is part of the issue
I'm not even sure it's that tbh
It's just that
Outlaw is tuned around fateboudn st
The st is already not that exceptional
But the issue is fateboudn is fateboudn and it doesn't work with what you want outlaw to do
Which is cleave
And trickster is way too behind in st to be playable in all the real fights
I think the best example is forgemaster
4th boss
It's a st cleave boss
So what do you wanna play
Ideally outlaw would play trickster st
And you cleave for free
Except trickster is 12% behind in st
So you can't do that
And fateboudn is fateboudn so it's not really playable on these type of fights
Doesn't really matter imo that both sub and sin are so strong
I think it'd mostly a fateboudn and trickster issue this tier
cinder relic
First 3 are like 1-5 pull bosses so its fairly inconsequential on what you play
Forgeweaver is the first wall, and wants specs that have high burst damage, and can deal a lot of burst AoE
Soul Hunters could be an Outlaw boss, but the chains in intermission make it a bit awkward to want to be greedy with uptime where your group doesn't let you |
Frac is just ST so outlaw is probs fine tbqh
Nexus King is probably fine too? But damage amps and platforms might be awkward
Dimensius is flying so GG
Yeah also trickster/fb tuning doesn't help
vivid vessel
Nexus king is another good example to me
Like
If outlaw was like last tier
Where trickster was the same st
You would just play trickster st
But with fateboudn ??
Idk man
You gonna do 0 AOE in add phase, 0 prio etc ..
Like you play outlaw but without what's make outlaw good
Soo
Imma try outlaw on fractilus tho ye
I think funnily enough it's probably the best outlaw boss this tier lol
grim spear
lol best boss for outlaw is dummy
vivid vessel
grim spear
fathom bramble
when all you have is potential weaknesses you just neeed the boss to be a target dummy
vivid vessel
Thing id
Nexus king
Is so close to that
Like the platforms are not enough downtime to be relevant enough imo
But its
hasty warren
https://www.reddit.com/r/FoodPorn/s/yMqkESTwUE @vivid vessel
vivid vessel
Well they had to add a damage amp of course
To fuck it over a bit
But it's just fateboudn tuning vs trickster fucking it over realy
Otherwise it would be a playable outlaw fight
Now it's a fight you will have to justify why you are playing the bad spec on
To your raid leader
vivid vessel
https://www.reddit.com/r/FoodPorn/s/yMqkESTwUE <@352916297262301194>
Wtf that's me
vague cape
lol best boss for outlaw is dummy
best outlaw boss I could imagine would be constant waves of aoe cannisters, never above 8 targets. massive mobility requirement to get to them and break them and the dps race isn't to do with one set, it's constant throughout the fight
add in one prio target to each set of these cannisters and voila, we have a fight that allows outlaw uptime but few others, meaningful constant aoe dps check that can't be solved with dps cds alone and a prio target to cleave from
hasty warren
Wtf that's me
looks good
cinder relic
Denathrius was a perfect outlaw end boss
I think if they want flying to be a core part of some raid encounters, UHUH should be adjusted to accomadate for that fact
vague cape
no idea how it played for melee, was a boomkin
vivid vessel
I think if they want flying to be a core part of *some* raid encounters, UHUH sh...
I think CDs should be stopped as well
Like on jailer
Remember
fathom bramble
Upper Hand: Spending combo points extends Adrenaline Rush and Blade flurry durations by x seconds per combo point spent. Additionally Blade flurry and Adrenaline rush cannot lose duration if you have not spent or generated combo points in the last 3 seconds
vivid vessel
When he just put everything on stasis
fathom bramble
they could just use the stasis stuff yeah
vague cape
**Upper Hand:** Spending combo points extends Adrenaline Rush and Blade flurry d...
what about the underhanded part?
vivid vessel
So big cd specs stop being so favored
Would legit fix everything
Like it make no sense I can just send 1min 30 CDs on every plat on dimensisius and have them on boss also right after
Like
These fights are legit like there was a time skip between cds
vague cape
only other idea I have for making a fight good for outlaw / bad for burst is just include a dps check with a thorns effect attatched, maut style
fathom bramble
what about the underhanded part?
this is the non underhanded way to get an upperhand
vague cape
Just to fuck over anyone not having. Big cds
did you play sanctum of domination?
vivid vessel
Yes
vague cape
now that raid really loved burst specs
played boomie for two weeks before rolling rogue, venthyr was so polarising yet actually easys to execute
got a r1 dumpstering the na noobs before quitting boomie
whole raid litterally delayed pushing for the boomies to get cds to push whatever check was in the fight smh
hallow spoke
I mean, outlaw also has range advantage vs sin/sub if I'm not smoking. With mouseover BTE/Pistol, so if that's ever relevant
vague cape
I mean, outlaw also has range advantage vs sin/sub if I'm not smoking. With mous...
that ship has little to no value bro
look at survival
cedar kernel
Sanctum is the place where tomelvis legend start
torpid fiber
outlaw range is kinda fake bc sub also has range in the sense that outside of cds you lose less from missing a gcd
like yes we have range but you can't play the rotation from ranged you can just sometimes get one gcd you couldn't otherwise
vague cape
the problem with melee having ranged capabilities is that it's either partial dps (ret loses hp gen) or limited in how long you can keep up damage by cds (survival'ss aspect of the eagle / bombs, kc, exp shot, killshot are all cds or limited) or by some kind of resource (unholy's wounds / they can't generate sudden doom from range) and it begs the question - why don't you add another mage instead of a melee trying to do damage from range
since clearly movement is a fucking meme for casters nowadays
so even if your melee spec can function for a good 30 globals at range people will just say bring range - yes im bitter about sv
pine garden
These fights are legit like there was a time skip between cds
Not to mention that these RP often freak with your adrenaline uptime. Not only they advantage specs with big cds but they specifically screw outlaw
vague cape
it's ironic how fire manages to be an uptime reliant spec like outlaw yet because it's ranged it's goated
torpid fiber
They should just make us ranged 🙂
vague cape
same for bm
litterally, bm is ranged outlaw for idiots
flurry? check - cdr on main cd? check
torpid fiber
Yeah I've been saying, make outlaw evoker range and make it "hard bm" p much
pine garden
Doubt they'll ever make that move
vague cape
if you make outlaw ranged you kill what makes it special
pine garden
But a range rogue with pistols sure sounds cool
vague cape
what's the point of being the most mobile spec ingame - racing against your spec to keep everything going if that mobility suddenly isn't needed bc you're ranged
torpid fiber
Yeah I've been saying, make outlaw evoker range and make it "hard bm" p much
ok new pitch: make outlaw ranged but blade flurry is still centred on you (/j)
craggy barn
!haste
ornate heathBOT
A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.
*But Haste has a **requirement ** because 
Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.
The 
KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after 
Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.
The 
HO build gets 
Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.
You need to use 
Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.
craggy barn
whats the exact haste value we'd want
fathom bramble
19.05
craggy barn
real loktark?
fathom bramble
it is at 19.05 that alacrity sends you to exactly 25%
craggy barn
aight
fathom bramble
excessive optimizing for that numberi s probably not worth it in general, but that is the inflection point for haste value on kir
craggy barn
its not really to optimize
just for the fiber
i have a weak aura that tells me to swap based on my haste
just incase my gear fucks things up
stiff vector
lvl 3 delvers journey 
buy my trinket tm
cedar kernel
gz
desert tendon
Ty bac 
cedar kernel
i will pray for all of u guys
bc u guys are my brother
i have nothing to lose
everything dooed
my tier 1 things i want to see in vault is the god damn tset
desert tendon
cedar kernel
should be the 1am of eu
cedar kernel
i dont fit assa
thats the issue
so if i play at high ping
i would choose tank
i got good routing
desert tendon
Bac tank 
cedar kernel
i am a good brew
vague cape
respect
cinder relic
leaks
tired rune
Like up down left right r1 r2 combos?
near rock
idk what to play on forgeweaver
gaunt phoenix
leaks <:HOLY:1250893440183570533>
2 handed DH 
gaunt phoenix
I absolutely guarantee the dh spec is real
cinder relic
I'm literally shaking with excitement for the system announcement
near rock
ok relax 
stiff vector
fel orc
near rock
it will be hype tho
gaunt phoenix
the third edict
snow hill
leaks <:HOLY:1250893440183570533>
Please God, the world is a better place with Orc & Draenei Demon Hunters.
Also, FML-YES if red Orc skins are a thing. I've wanted Fel Orc since I first saw them in TBC. They need to have the red glowing eyes and bigger tusks reeeeeeeeeeee!
glossy pewter
does the fatebound opener tech work on dimensius?
keen belfry
I'm literally shaking with excitement for the system announcement
what qualifies as system announcement
cinder relic
Uh probably in the category of hero talents, or talents from the last 2 expansions
Or like, azerite, corruptions, covenants
Like the actual meat and potatoes of end game optimizationa nd choices
glossy pewter
Like the actual meat and potatoes of end game optimizationa nd choices
bring back conduits, conduits were cool, i like more slots to farm from dungeons and things to mess with
cedar kernel
will realz make the third DH spec as a another outlaw but in magic
cedar kernel
keen belfry
ive become a "anything before warbands was a bad expansion" guy
short fable
will realz make the third DH spec as a another outlaw but in magic
eye beam mage
near rock
ive become a "anything before warbands was a bad expansion" guy
decent take
cinder relic
the raids fuckin owned
covenants were good, just not swapping
junior coral
!tech
cinder relic
SBS, flag, ER were all amazing abilities
I mean look
Flag is a core of sub, SBS is a core of sin, and ER was a core of Outlaw and Sin for awhile
cedar kernel
cant deny with that
cinder relic
I really do like supercharger more than ER tbqh
I think supercharger is so fucking good
near rock
i remember farming korthia and seeing u there every day
keen belfry
guy i couldnt even play my healer off spec in keys because i ran out of conduit things or wahtever it was called
near rock
yeah they cooked hard on covenants
keen belfry
they butchered slands so bad
they failed during COVID
everyone was home playing video games
and it still failed
jolly geyser
Make rogue be able to use 2h
thorny vault
id fucking die
jolly geyser
If xalas feet aint in the trailer,its not a good expansion
hollow kestrel
Make rogue be able to use 2h
never
junior coral
Odds rogue gets another buff?
lime lake
tired rune
past sky
arent they spreading the wow panels out over five days or something
hopefully they do an overview tomorrow at least
real saddle
so are we opening vault as assasin for dagger chance?
frail veldt
any advice on lowering input latency in raid?
or is that just the way it is this early in the season lol
craggy barn
better than hopeful
probably, hes also been doing this level of raiding longer than hopeful
keen belfry
i recently learned fireup has way more gear so maybe idk
torpid fiber
tbf they gave the gear to firedup bc they're pretty sure he's going to always be in bc he's so good
lime lake
yeah theres never a shot firedup gets benched
grave carbon
the game was rigged from the start
cedar kernel
i am wondering one thing, if we attacking with this wep, shouldnt it always hit our face
stuck sparrow
better than hopeful
Yes, not even a question.
vapid sundial
willow portal
frail veldt
i am wondering one thing, if we attacking with this wep, shouldnt it always hit ...
whoa i need this
sick weapon
jolly geyser
Trading post,was june or july
tidal wave
<@101843879791177728> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jnZFA2artRxHPXh6?figh...
I enjoyed outlaw on loom.
pure folio
undone notch
Is improved ambush or Tight spender better for KiR?
undone notch
TBH playing without improved ambush during stealth windows doesn't feel great
Like... ever?
quartz patio
Does Keep it Rolling - Possible build variations 3 use Ambush?
undone notch
Even during stealth?
fathom bramble
I tried investigating this the other night and couldn't find a way to make actually casting ambush a gain even with improved ambush
even as bad as it may feel
undone notch
Dang
Am I like, turbo throwing if I just play HO then?
I enjoy how it plays a lot more
tidal wave
Gotta play the KiR
undone notch
What makes Ambush so bad for KiR?... only started using it in the last few days
fathom bramble
it doesn't generate opportunity
frail veldt
What makes Ambush so bad for KiR?... only started using it in the last few days
it doesnt do anything
it cant double hit and it cant generate opp procs
it doesnt interact with our kit at all
HO is what makes ambush interact with outlaw
daring yoke
i missed having lower cds for KS. more rest for my wrist 😭
undone notch
Yeah, I know how HO works, I always played it because I thought it felt a lot better
fathom bramble
for what it's worth taking improved ambush and just casting ambush during stealth is less of a loss than actually playing ho
frail veldt
dont you love when you open on a raid boss and you get 8 ss without a proc in a row
fathom bramble
dont you love when you open on a raid boss and you get 8 ss without a proc in a ...
makes me wish I was playing ho
frail veldt
for what it's worth taking improved ambush and just casting ambush during stealt...
is that actually true? lol
fathom bramble
is that actually true? lol
yes
frail veldt
#doubt
fathom bramble
improved ambush and making you cast ambush only if you don't have opp and are stealthed is a 1.4% loss for kir trickster 1fth ghostly
frail veldt
but maybe ig
undone notch
I found the loop of SS>Gun>Ambush super satisfying, kinda sucks that its like 10% worse
daring yoke
dont you love when you open on a raid boss and you get 8 ss without a proc in a ...
also feels bad when opening on a big pull in m+ 😭
frail veldt
improved ambush and making you cast ambush only if you don't have opp and are st...
thats very very low
frail veldt
also feels bad when opening on a big pull in m+ 😭
at least you have bfury for that
wait
that cant be true loktark
you lose 6% finisher damage
...
oh nvm its finisher cost
fathom bramble
if ambush was just a little bit better we could do it
undone notch
Is it worth taking Audacity over triple threat if I'm using improved ambush then?
frail veldt
lol
fathom bramble
but it's kind of optimizing a bad build
fathom bramble
I can try and find out ig
undone notch
I might keep triple threat but just use Improved Ambush for stealth windows?