outlaw

[vivid vessel]

bugged in sims

[proven ocean]

oh

is it actually that good?

is it good for sin sub by any chance

or

[vivid vessel]

its not good

[desert tendon]

BTW zero

[desert tendon]

Did u know

[proven ocean]

im confused u mean this one is not good?

or which one

[desert tendon]

https://liquidarmory.com/

Liquid doing their bloodmallet version

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

!

[willow portal]

hopeful got some freetime to manage that i think

[desert tendon]

He just lost 16 mages

[quaint mauve]

footbomb bad , warp claw ok

[desert tendon]

Still Have 16 more to play

[worthy thunder]

People playing 2/2p in keys or nah?

[quaint mauve]

zeross swapped to sin and is already losing his brain

so sad

😕

[desert tendon]

He swapped à long time ago

Zero Never been an outlo one trick

[willow portal]

[stiff hawk]

I would swap my blanket with you

[desert tendon]

Tira you cute fuck

[willow portal]

[desert tendon]

I think BTW I ll Côme back last season of next expac

And I ll just play last season of every expac

[willow portal]

good idea

best time

[stiff hawk]

So in 2 Years

[desert tendon]

The only good seasons always

Best raid always thé last

Only exception was nathria

[vivid vessel]

its good

[stiff hawk]

Dont feed the troll

[desert tendon]

Zero a cute troll tho

Really bad at ragebaiting

[quaint mauve]

bro

dawnbreaker

FUCKING

sucks

i just flew through the ship with adr on 2 min cd

and just had to endure

the worst downtime

in history

[stiff hawk]

Dawnbreaker is such a bad dungeon

i hate it frfr

[tight kernel]

Why it’s fun

Simple

And fun

No bugs

??

Do we know if chef solo finished cooking the vanish hold for gs?

[quaint mauve]

affix spawned under map on second boss every run i’ve done so far

[tight kernel]

First boss doesn’t move. It’s the best when it just sits in her circles for over a min refusing to go to tank

[quaint mauve]

but that’s a skill issue ig, i shouldn’t be in affixlow

[quaint mauve]

who voted for this cancer man

yeah this too

[tight kernel]

People want trinket

[quaint mauve]

i just have to sit there and watch my adr tick down

[tight kernel]

I hope those who voted for it, never get it and have to spend a dinar after 11.5 updates

[quaint mauve]

as she does 20 casts in a row

[quaint mauve]

doomed us all for a mid ass trinket

[tight kernel]

I don’t even want it

But I have to endure the dawn breaker coding

[acoustic epoch]

whats the secret people have to get their haste drops

[quaint mauve]

the thing is

i like 2nd and last boss

if the dungeon wasn’t still bugged

i wouldn’t mind

but blizzard devs rather slobber over their keyboards

than fix it

[tight kernel]

Recraft and gems

Can still recraft s2 gear

[tight kernel]

I reported a bug for last boss

If you let 2nd set of barrels go off (only send 2) and just dps, you get a 3rd set and then all 3 have to dunk at same time and brings boss hp to 59% before flying away

You do flying rp and when he lands he instant dies gg

Idk might be intended but seems like such a bug lol

[quaint mauve]

ima keep this in mind

heh…

[minor verge]

hi guys, coup de grace can override the limit of 7 cp points? and do as 12 cp points? or is it capped

[quaint mauve]

so you let 2 barrels go off?

interesting

is that even survivable

[tight kernel]

If you got Chad healer yeah

[quaint mauve]

so ur telling me…

if my healer can’t do it

[frail adder]

dumb question but instant poiison or wounds for m+

[quaint mauve]

they’re trolling

[quaint mauve]

instant

[shrewd latch]

So, is 2pc\2pc Fatebound better than old 4pc trickster for dungeons at this current moment?

[proven ocean]

cringe

@vivid vessel cant key??

whole crew is here

[leaden hazel]

!gear

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1405223155706105866/outlaw_new.webp

[slate forge]

Didn’t feel very good when I played it

[glass plaza]

Looks like there’s an enhance/mugzee raid tip on the wowhead outlaw raid tips page

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

i think fury warr needs some buffs thoughts??

a little buff not much

tho

[vivid vessel]

well ye kekw

it does nothing

[unkempt dew]

Why are you laying on the floor?

[halcyon elm]

what the

[grave carbon]

if we craft weapon do we put embelish on it?

[agile orchid]

is it just me or is the last boss in streets way worse than I remember it being in shadowlands

I basically have no uptime on him

[vivid vessel]

ye :

fun boss

[worldly shale]

hes fine imo

streets is just awful tho

hate it

[vivid vessel]

he is fine ?

dude

he tps

every 10s

and you just chase him

forever

its the most cringe boss ever

[elder nacelle]

should I still run trickster on st before getting tier?

[worldly shale]

hes fun!

u match!

shapes!

wym

[vivid vessel]

no he isnt fun

lol

tf

you are ragebaiting

[worldly shale]

took u

3

of them

to understand

but streets is just

the dumbest dungeon

in the rotation

unpuggable

[willow portal]

i am getting outdamaged by unholy and destro / demo

:(

where buff

[weary fog]

streets bosses are all kinda cringe

[worldly shale]

btw

am i just getting into shit groups

[hybrid crown]

They are all so bad for outlaw

[worldly shale]

or is ara kara kinda overtuned?

[weary fog]

ara kara has felt fine

[worldly shale]

ok

then its me

[weary fog]

pugs still die to lastboss for no reason tho

even tho they nerfed it

[hybrid crown]

When you get the orb thing and run to pick up orbs, you now have 20 stacks and ready to pump some dam into the boss and ADR is gone 😔

[worldly shale]

SAME

btw

[hybrid crown]

Or the music boss how you can't stealth between trash packs. You can vanish tho

[worldly shale]

cloak works so u dont get knocked

u can just sit on him

[weary fog]

u can cloak the first boss prison thing right?

[keen belfry]

yeah idk how to do this dungy

[worldly shale]

didnt try, but u can cloak the weapon steal for sure

[weary fog]

wait really

huge

the spreadsheet says u can claok the containment cell which is nice if true

[worldly shale]

send

spread

plox

[weary fog]

!defensive

!defensives

[late swallow]

!def

[ornate heath]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[weary fog]

ty

[worldly shale]

tnx

is there a raid guide

on wowhead for sure?

[late swallow]

wdym by raid guide

like what to do on each boss?

[worldly shale]

i mean

someone

mentioned

here

that there is a raid guide on defensives and rogue shennanigans

for raid

[weary fog]

its in that spreadsheet

doesnt have every boss yet

[worldly shale]

aha can see it

[late swallow]

yah I'm not sure if there's anything other than that sheet rn

it'll get updated more as the season progresses I'm sure

people are still figuring out what works

[worldly shale]

this

is what i meant

[white marten]

How many rogues are liquid/echo taking for heroic splits?

0? 😂

[worldly shale]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/outlaw/manaforge-omega-raid-tips

here it is

found it

[late swallow]

@proven ocean #1 on recent runs on raider.io

[wintry solar]

Bandits Guile was good because it let me doomscroll instagram

thats about the only pro Combat had in a sea of cons

[willow portal]

did you also get more pulls so you could enjoy the boss music longer?

[weary fog]

can u vanish before the lines go out on last boss gambit phase 2 or do u just have to let adr tick down

[proper bear]

I saw some kinda outlaw rog loot cheatsheet the other day but that slid off of my brain, anyone see a graphic like that somewhere?

[wintry solar]

why would I do that when spotify is right there

[wintry solar]

dont be mean

[keen belfry]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[late swallow]

!gear

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1405223155706105866/outlaw_new.webp

[onyx spear]

So you still Open with the macro as fatebound st? Since its gone from the Pins I assume we dont?

With new 2 Set

[leaden hazel]

wdym? it's still there

[quaint plover]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[onyx spear]

Nvm iam blind sry ^^

[glass plaza]

is there one of these for all 3 specs or just outlaw?

[hollow creek]

is the 4set just trash or what ? got 13 more ilvl and 4 set simmed 64k more in dungeon slice ? must be a joke or bugg

[exotic gale]

the sim is joking sometimes

[manic quartz]

can delve vault drop tier?

[frank finch]

yes

[wintry solar]

as a reward? I didnt know that

TIL

[viscid perch]

The new tier is garbage

[wintry solar]

oh Vault

I didnt see that nvm

[manic quartz]

is there a fast delve for rogue?

[unique fulcrum]

the 2p for trickster seems so underwhelming when reading it

[willow portal]

[median sandal]

From what I gather 2p/2p isn't worth it for m+

[lone spear]

yea

is in da pins

but for fatebound is very good

[normal forge]

sism 0.1% better than conductors wax whistle

[pliant wind]

BiS

[lone spear]

huge

[hasty warren]

!gear

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1405223155706105866/outlaw_new.webp

[wintry solar]

Van I took crit dagger

ope

[lone spear]

also forgot to update for this but weirdly for me the 2 raid trinks are better than warpclaw on st (which is what the bloodmallet suggests). they're also better dslice

[hardy vault]

I just got two heroic daggers

I don’t wanna play a dagger spec

[hardy vault]

[lone spear]

sorry buddy

down (or up) to the gulag

[wintry solar]

youre going to play the better specs whether you like it or not

[lone spear]

false

well true

but because outlaw is better

[median sandal]

https://tenor.com/view/once-an-outlaw-always-an-outlaw-danteh-hydration-outlaws-you-cant-escape-being-an-outlaw-gif-19138825

[wintry solar]

I played assa for a week last season

came right back to outlaw

[rotund zodiac]

!gear

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1405223155706105866/outlaw_new.webp

[half arch]

should i go fatebound on streets?

[autumn idol]

i answered without realizing i am in the wrong channel oops

no one saw that

[lone spear]

if you have 4 set its playable for sure

i would hesitate to say its "better"

[half arch]

alright

[wintry solar]

didnt solo say that its not really throwing anymore a while back?

I'd have to double check that

[lone spear]

yea he basically said its decent enough, much better boss damage, still worse on AoE

[wintry solar]

im gonna valide that rq

[lone spear]

and destined doom isnt really gonna help priority damage

heres the post

[wintry solar]

I was looking for what he said but that one is better

I'll probably play a little fatebound in keys until I get higher

[lone spear]

its also much better at 2pc/2pc i think

[heavy shadow]

I guess it's not possible to pull nicely last bopss

[wintry solar]

no tier yet. HO/SC with the new killing spree is super fun (with last seasons tier)

im keeping my eye on it in future patches

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[wintry solar]

I wonder if we're going to be getting a RTB tier every expansion. 2-2 rn

hello

[desert tendon]

@vivid vessel i found better than america

look at that, you can gun but after 10pm

[wintry solar]

literally 1932

[white marten]

Gonna have to try 2-2 fatebound on some bosses

Wasnt a fan of 2-2 trickster in m+

[worthy thunder]

WIth the new 2p, are we not fishing as much for dice rolls?

[white marten]

Not really- as 5 buff rolls are far less frequent with new tier

[opaque helm]

had my +13 listed for about an hour now it seems no one wants to play with lil ol outlaw rogue

[white marten]

They dont wanna get gapped by a c-tier spec

[worthy thunder]

I thought so, I dont know why but it feels kinda nice. Thank you mate

[frail veldt]

I think that applies once you have new 4 set

[wintry solar]

AH

[frail veldt]

Not at all, you run loaded dice and have new roll rules

[white marten]

!rtb

[ornate heath]

How to use RTB
( HO build)

• Roll on cooldown until you get a 5 buff. If you have 4 total buffs including CTO, you can choose to keep them until 3, it's not an expected dps loss or gain.

( KIR build)

• Has a concept of buffs being preserved through RTB casts after pressing KIR instead of being rolled off.
• Use this weakaura to see how many buffs you "will lose" by pressing RTB (red or blue border).
• Roll if you will lose between 0-2 buffs.
• Roll if you will lose between 3-4 buffs if they are all below ~10s remaining.
• If you KIR a natural 5 buff, wait until buffs approach ~41s remaining before rolling.

The faq elaborates on these rules.

[slate forge]

This is for old tier

[worthy thunder]

Thank you man, it feels quite nice

[winged raft]

so many people using 1 button rotation in m+ keys and it shows

[median sandal]

Don't we want the Scream of a Forgotten Sky for m+?

[tight kernel]

https://wago.io/CTb3OGAbm

[civic void]

Not really, looks nice for longer raid fights tho but I assume the image was done before Solo's update

[tight kernel]

This seems so good

[median sandal]

I was more refering to M+ I see it's top sim in fuu's Trinket dungeon Slice

[civic void]

I mean it's a split damage trinket with no main stat, sounds a bit fucked for m+ to me

[lone spear]

solo doesnt seem to think highly of it in keys

but perhaps it can have some use, for me m+ simming is really sus, i always find just running shit in the dungeons is actually the best way to see how it goes

[real yew]

Scream of a Forgotten Sky is bad for dungeons, right?

[gaunt phoenix]

i think at the time there was something wrong with it in simc

The death effect was super inflated

[red zinc]

i mean the vers effect aint that powerful and also doesnt really work since when your target dies the pack usually doesnt last much longer

[lucid sandal]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gaunt phoenix]

that trinket is fine, wouldn't say it is amazing

[red zinc]

idk how highly the damage is tuned but these “on death” effects on trinkets are usually not a plus

[zinc briar]

Mmm is a big diff using ambush when inv/subtefurge with kir talents?

in st

[red zinc]

Quite sizeable but theres no reason to do it

[gaunt phoenix]

Using ambush with kir is like 10% loss st

i think partially because you get less CTO procs so on average, you dont meet the condition to press KIR as often

[red zinc]

and ambush is also just a bad gcd i imagine without ho

energy wise

[gaunt phoenix]

yeh

[zinc briar]

i was trolling so hard then, didnt notice had ambush bind when i was inv

hahahaha

[proven ocean]

@bleak egret where u at cuh

[warped helm]

hi all - is this the right place to ask about advice on my dps as an outlaw rouge?

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

fk

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah

[strong halo]

bro is it really not letting me sim new head pieces because of head enchant that doesnt work anymore

[gaunt phoenix]

it should let you press sim

it should just be a warning message that doesnt actually stop you from doing stuff

[warped helm]

i feel like i have my rotation down alright and can do okay damage in keys, but i really sruggle keeping ar up - its up maybe 60% in a key - and also my aoe is really rough, while other outlaws at similar ivlv are hitting close to 10m in some pulls im struggling to hit 4 or 5

[strong halo]

it says the helm isnt gna be considered in sim

[gaunt phoenix]

can you give me your /simc?

[strong halo]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a4bnHyoLoo4jmDRdT59XT7

[gaunt phoenix]

well ngl 60% AR is really rough. that definitely means the rotation is not right

[warped helm]

yeah but im really not sure where im going wrong, but theres defo something

[gaunt phoenix]

but everything about outlaw comes together to keep AR active so it's hard to say specifically what thing

[frail veldt]

our m+ simming is rather accurate

but trinkets often are broken yeah

well maybe not often but it definitely happens

[gaunt phoenix]

there is some weirdness with trinkets sometimes

this early it's usually trinket implementations having bugs

[frail veldt]

as flawed as it is though its very hard to analyze performance just from personal logs

of a trinket

so sims I think are still your best option generally unless they seem far off from how its performing in reality

[edgy phoenix]

map cant drop from delves w/o rank 2 in journey?

[gaunt phoenix]

that is correct

[edgy phoenix]

was that like always

[frail veldt]

you can always submit a log for review and we can tell you what might be wrong

[gaunt phoenix]

if you log a key i can look at it

[edgy phoenix]

i dont remember grinding rank

[gaunt phoenix]

No it's new

[edgy phoenix]

what a random change

[warped helm]

thank you both i will do that!

[gaunt phoenix]

!commonerrors

[ornate heath]

Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.

[frigid shale]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warped helm]

!log

[gaunt phoenix]

do u have this selected?

i can click whatever

[strong halo]

no should i?

[gaunt phoenix]

no, if you did it wouldnt let you break old 4pc

[strong halo]

yeah idk still not letting me pick hood

[covert heart]

I have learned that playing outlaw with 30 people in your raid for the first week or 2 is not the best 🤣🤣. My frames are so ass. I can finally do the rotation right once peeps die

[gaunt granite]

Is outlaw worth playing atm?

[gaunt phoenix]

oh it's gem shit

you need to select another gem here

[covert heart]

If you enjoy it yea

[gaunt phoenix]

because you have "only max colors" ticked, but not enough gems to fill max colors

[strong halo]

ty solo

ur a god

[tight kernel]

So BF procs it but buff doesnt stack just refreshes. I mean its good when you have no other trinks imo

like its the worst

lower proc rate with BF tho

[frail veldt]

totally

its way more fun imo than last season

just cuz they fixed KS

keys feel honestly just relaxing now

[tight kernel]

yeah its a vibe

[frail veldt]

also outlaw always blasts early in the season in these low keys

[gaunt phoenix]

man i dont like outlaw logs anymore

The timeline is just a bunch garbled nonsense

[strong halo]

i might switch to assas tbh... the last 2 bosses of raid being so outlaw unfriendly is super annoying

[heavy shadow]

why is it we take the armor kit with extra armor, not stamina? is armor better for def?

[gaunt phoenix]

who says we take the one with armor

[heavy shadow]

usually it's what pops up on sim

maybe it's how I was running the sim to include the armor one incorrectly

[gaunt phoenix]

stamina is way more popular

[gilded sinew]

Guys is it me or the fps are getting particularly crushed on this raid?

[heavy shadow]

I keep getting the occasional 2 sec or so freeze

[grim pilot]

hey, do you think we need to craft weapon first or should we wait?

[late swallow]

Hey solo just wanted to say I hope you’re having a great day haha didn’t mean to be a bother haha

[gaunt phoenix]

ty

[balmy topaz]

🪙

[worldly shale]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[trim harbor]

is puggin this dry at begining of every season

[red zinc]

hey somnius just wanted to say i hope you’re having a mid day meant to be a bother haha

[frail veldt]

dude I spent 30 minutes

[late swallow]

please don't @ me with hate speech

[frail veldt]

and couldnt get in a single key

[late swallow]

loser

[frail veldt]

AND no one applied to my key

it was wild

[gaunt phoenix]

dead game

[covert kestrel]

id apply to your key mewo

[frail veldt]

I did eventually get a group with a buddy

outlaw kinda crankin rn

[covert heart]

We have the opposite problem right now to many keys and it gets lost in the mess.

[frail veldt]

short lived but always fun at the start

[covert heart]

Instead of late season where there isnt anyone around

[frail veldt]

NA triple outlaw?

[covert heart]

Sounds like fun, prot warrior, mw and get drums

[covert kestrel]

honestly would blast

[frail veldt]

fr

I need to get a lil more gear I havent replaced anything from last season yet

and I wasnt even bis from last season

but the overalls are still juicy

our adr uptime is a lil wild

[covert kestrel]

i got hero sacbrood and idk if i should be recrafting shit to make it work

[frail veldt]

daaaang

[late swallow]

why is outlaw so good in vault keys week one of every new patch?????

outlaw busted??????

[frail veldt]

cuz stuff dies fast af

[late swallow]

very cool! thanks for explaining mewo

I'll add it to my notes

[frail veldt]

yeah write that shit down

[strong halo]

Alright but are we going to see the outlaw apocalypse in 2-3 weeks where everyone switches to assas

[main vapor]

!WA

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[late swallow]

it's almost guaranteed

[covert kestrel]

if assa survives in 3 weeks

[late swallow]

look at the top keys already

assa

[strong halo]

well top 3 IO dudes are 2 outlaws

but Mort switch from outlaw to assas to push 🙁

[covert kestrel]

i did some shitter keys with friends yesterday and i was pooping on them and ive never even played assa, it literally just goes brr

[tight kernel]

Last two are fine as FB

[frail veldt]

bleed assa build goes pretty hard in low keys

[strong halo]

theres no way it doesnt get aoe nerfs tho

[strong halo]

Last boss? you lose AR between every platform

[late swallow]

assa won't seem as crazy once keys start getting higher and people get gear

performance in lower keys is just inflated with bleed build

it'll still be super strong for sure

[covert kestrel]

kev is one of the best outlaw raiders in the game rn so if he says its fine then its fine

[copper radish]

Who do we need to pay so outlaw avoids any potential nerf bats

[covert kestrel]

what is left to nerf

lmao

[gaunt phoenix]

i agree that last 2 bosses are looking fatebound favored

[strong halo]

My question mark indicates its a question ;3 im curious on how he approaches it that makes it easy

[strong halo]

arent all bosses except the aoe ones?

[copper radish]

Hopefully nothing but when outlaws doing good never know what blizz gonna do lol

[covert heart]

I am playing it so it will prob get buffed since I am cheeks

[gaunt phoenix]

it's kind of an open question whether outlaw is fatebound or trickster on the last 2

[frail veldt]

but all else is trickster?

[gaunt phoenix]

no...

[frail veldt]

oh

[copper radish]

Playing fatebound all season even in keys cause coins are fun now

[frail veldt]

yeah I figured it would be mostly fatebound

[covert kestrel]

i had the number one outlaw parse on the second boss of lfr last night and no one was logging, so imma go kill myself

[covert heart]

I feel like there is like 2 or 3 for sure trister bosses

[covert kestrel]

ITS SUPER IMPORTANT TRUST ME

ill finally get a mythic guild

[gaunt phoenix]

plexus, loomithar, fractillus are fatebound

forgemaster and soul hunters are for sure trickster

soulbinder is maybe trickster, depends on how aoe is in mythic

the last 2 are kind of an open question

[covert heart]

Just join mine, the only requirement is you have to grey parse

[copper radish]

Fatebound it is 🪙

[covert heart]

I feel like i can get value on trickster on soulbinder. It was heroic but things were living long enough

[gaunt phoenix]

was thinking with gear the aoe will quickly be nothing

[covert heart]

I was thinking for a while atleast it would be good especially in mythic. Maybe we will see how the race goes and see how long those adds live. I also have an easier time doing aoe compared to the rest of my raid

So maybe I can just get cheap easy damage before it dies

[near rock]

dimensius on heroic at least is 100% a fatebound only fight

max 2 target cleave, and last phase is a huge single target dps check

[covert heart]

Also I could be wrong but the adds you kill in phase 2 to pass through dont count for logs right?

Like the little guys that create a wall

[near rock]

they count

they'll be phased out though down the road

[covert heart]

I figured

[near rock]

WCL doesn't like that kinda pad

[covert heart]

It wouldnt make sense either

[tight kernel]

I would Trickers for Soulbinder, Forgeweave and Hunters (since its a perma 3 cleave fight) rest FB is fine, not enough add uptime for them to justify getting off FB. Obv we will see how Mythic looks

[near rock]

if your guild is doing it right either way you won't be positioned next to a ton of the wall adds regardless

[vivid vessel]

ots

if you play precise cut

on any of the fights

that arent dh boss

im calling you out

[white marten]

LET US PAD ZAC

[vivid vessel]

no

[white marten]

its the only thing were good for

[covert heart]

Let us have the pad dream

[fallen knot]

not me opening vault, reading automatic dispenser in delve row with 1x delve slot, coming here, checking pins and be sad

[near rock]

erm

[vivid vessel]

dont start

[fallen knot]

at least i'm not forced to play football in wow

[near rock]

[vivid vessel]

stop

[tired rune]

[vivid vessel]

there will be no justification this tier

[covert heart]

Well he said call-out ots for using it but not the rest of us

[white marten]

Should we run 2+2 fatebound on bosses over old 4pc?

[fallen knot]

zac thoughts on dh boss and outlaw being ultra bis there?

[vivid vessel]

last iter oab was already on the edge

[vivid vessel]

[white marten]

MM bis

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah i would for everything except forgemaster and soul hunters

[fallen knot]

mm is shit im deleting mine

[white marten]

Awesome thanks!

[fallen knot]

mm is so shit i got depressed after joining a helper run for method

[fallen knot]

talking about non dot broken classes

[vivid vessel]

imagine not having 10 wl ready for dh boss btw

[wintry solar]

if fth were 1 point we could take HO and KiR

[covert heart]

I cant wait to do soul hunters without 30 peeps in raid

[fallen knot]

spriest is omega there aswell it's insane

basically full voidform uptime

[vivid vessel]

i think its only looking good cause people need to learn the fight

first

[fallen knot]

it's so stupid

[vivid vessel]

i dont think outlaw will stay at the top on that boss

[covert heart]

Let me believe

[vivid vessel]

cd specs need to learn how to send their cds on this fight first

[fathom bramble]

it's also a lot of rogues on a setup where old tier is good and new tier is bad

[vivid vessel]

cause its a bit finicky

eh

outlaw tier is one of the good one

but that was also the cast this season

[fallen knot]

you've never used that word ever

[vivid vessel]

ye i struggled

[fallen knot]

finicky

[vivid vessel]

mad tho ?

im a big word user

i enjoy all kind of words

[fallen knot]

i'm depressed cause i want to delete my hunter

and

my ele will get nuked out of this earth

so thats a nono alt there aswell

classes that remain are

dk

that is so fucking weird i dont even want to touch it

and rogue

and ofc i wont ever never ever play assa

[tight kernel]

zac are you playing 2FTH for other aoe fights?

[fallen knot]

so i just wont play

[vivid vessel]

everyfight but dh boss ye

unless you are a giga padder

@near rock will prolly try to convince you to play pc on any boss with adds

[tight kernel]

I call it ethical padding

[vivid vessel]

but thats illegal

[fallen knot]

socket angle yes?

[tight kernel]

sim bomb

[near rock]

look u can blame blizzard, if they didn't want us to use it they wouldn't have buffed it 3 times in a row or whatever

[tight kernel]

its hero track right?

[fallen knot]

solo says

bomb is ass in pins

[tight kernel]

wait

[gaunt phoenix]

Bomba is trash

[tight kernel]

bomb buns

yeah

socket

gg

[fallen knot]

it's fine

[vivid vessel]

ye im seeing both pad boss people playing pc at like 90%

very legal

im glad blizzard created this

[fallen knot]

i have another question real quick

zac

can you screenshot your reputation with raid

[tight kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/pedro-monkey-puppet-meme-awkward-gif-15268759

[jolly geyser]

2 is max this week

[vivid vessel]

im r2

[fallen knot]

screenshot

i'm like this

after 2x normals and some hc bosses

[tight kernel]

Guy has GS dropped for 2FTH to keep PC

[tight kernel]

thats ethical af

love it

[fallen knot]

GG DELETE ACCOUNT GO NEXT BNET ACCOUNT

[vivid vessel]

thats worse st

lol

well thats worse everything

[fallen knot]

but why am i behind

[vivid vessel]

idk skill issue

as always

[fallen knot]

but how can i even get skill issued by rep

[jolly geyser]

Done quests?

[fallen knot]

campaign no

[vivid vessel]

nah but idk

i hate this timeline

@gaunt phoenix

[fallen knot]

quest that says to talk to the guy outside

yes

[vivid vessel]

how do you convince people pc is bad in raid

[tight kernel]

This is the ethical build zac wants Outlaws to play.

[jolly geyser]

[vivid vessel]

i hate this shit im ngl

[tight kernel]

beat their parses without PC ez or have wcl null out add damage like OAB

[vivid vessel]

pc has to go

bro the adds on these pads boss are useless

litteraly useless

they die in 3 gcds

90% of people are playing pc

[fallen knot]

imagine being a spriest

[tight kernel]

Its like taking PC on Heroic Stix

just giga cursed

[vivid vessel]

no cause stix adds have to die at least

[fallen knot]

either you throw your shadow crash at the exact moment

[tight kernel]

But I did run PC for first clear

[fallen knot]

or you cant pad ever

[tight kernel]

I am part of the problem. Im sorry zac

[cinder relic]

What bosses are adds useless on?

I feel like every add fight, adds are a big deal lol

[fallen knot]

the big cages guy

[vivid vessel]

they die in 2 gcds

[white marten]

PC ftw

[slate forge]

You save Ks and blast the add for the parse

[tight kernel]

Only add thats high prio imo is nexus king Titan add

[vivid vessel]

on both the add fights

wdym

[fallen knot]

and the one that in p2 just draws you towards the blackhole

[vivid vessel]

im talking about the early fight guys

[tight kernel]

that needs to die asap other than that its just afk on boss

[cinder relic]

Not when all the cages are released

[vivid vessel]

boss 3 and 4 ?

look maybe its different in mythic

no one there yet

[fallen knot]

they do kind of explode in hc

[slate forge]

No 100 parse for you

[vivid vessel]

but you cant look at me in the eyes

and tell me

[tight kernel]

I think mythic it will be a pc angle

[vivid vessel]

its a fight were you play pc

haha

thats just delusional

[safe pasture]

should i be running 2set over old 4

[fallen knot]

zac we all know you will just play sub or assa

[cinder relic]

When they all release itll be important

Idk

[fallen knot]

stop yapping about outlaw in mythic

[gaunt phoenix]

for the bosses you play fatebound yes

[fallen knot]

they'll bench you if you play outlaw

[safe pasture]

for m+

[gaunt phoenix]

probably not

[tight kernel]

I bench assa players

Kev prio

[safe pasture]

ty!

[fallen knot]

i respect that

a lot

[cinder relic]

I mean I don't think outlaw is actually bad for most of this raid tbqh

Its not like the st is bad lol

and the aoe fights, are actual aoe fights

like broodtwister, where u need a lot of fucking aoe

Ofc last boss is gonna be rough

[fallen knot]

there's some damage amps here and there tho

[tight kernel]

I think Outlaw is just going to be under played cause assa is easier and has 2mins

pretty much same treatment as s2

[slate forge]

I for one love flying around and not doing my rotation /s

[vivid vessel]

how do you know

[cinder relic]

It depends whats hard about forgeweaver, boss damage or add damage

[fallen knot]

i agree that this raid looks more outlaw friendly

[vivid vessel]

has outlaw ever simmed this low comparatively

like its usually topping charts

[fallen knot]

comparatively

[cinder relic]

I went to heroic fractillus thats how I saw

[vivid vessel]

with s2 gear

?

[cinder relic]

Seems like it has decent ST

[fallen knot]

my god zac you're becoming an english teacher or

[vivid vessel]

idk what this means

[tight kernel]

tetris boss is a 1 buitton rotation fight

[tight kernel]

Hey thats me at 15

any assa player below me is washed

[cinder relic]

Context is always rogue ofc

[tight kernel]

they should fotm lock or something

[cinder relic]

Every spec is bad compraed to aff

[copper radish]

Are yall running PC on your fatebound aoe builds or are u running 2/2 FTH

[analog mulch]

Is there any writting guide on what to do in M+ before the key starts, like AR, or BF?

[gaunt phoenix]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

[tight kernel]

2ft + gs

no pc on fb

[analog mulch]

tnx solo

[strong halo]

@tight kernel this u?

[copper radish]

You the best thanks

[tight kernel]

We dont talk about loom

stop

[vivid vessel]

How can you just look at week 1 logs tho

[strong halo]

LMAOOO

did you soak alone?

[tight kernel]

Want the truth?

I walked into a line

[cinder relic]

I'm not interested in argue shit rn zac

[tight kernel]

and just died

[vivid vessel]

Argue what

[sweet iron]

this final boss is some kind of sick joke no? ive only seen positive feedback for it then i did it and wtf

[vivid vessel]

Lol

[fallen knot]

well

[cinder relic]

Outlaw is bad dont play it, there u go

[fallen knot]

they reworked ks

so

loomithar isnt a outlaw nightmare at least

[copper radish]

I don’t wanna believe that ima put my blinders on

[fallen knot]

or the 1st even

imagine ks'ing into the wall

multiple times

[stiff vector]

For real, playing 1fth and pc on those bosses felt terrible, might just play regular trickster next week tbh or even FB and just hit boss but fuck pc and 1 fan

[vivid vessel]

I was litteraly only talking about pc tho, not outlaw power in general lol but ok

[strong halo]

i think outlaw is sleeper in raid tbh

[slate forge]

Wouldn’t be surprise if KS is hitting the wall as an invisible add though

[copper radish]

KIR FB outlaw all season ST or aoe. Trick is dead to me cause coins are too much fun

[late swallow]

guys so is outlaw good or bad? (I can't think for myself)

[fallen knot]

how bad is the rtb rush now tho with new tier

no more 5buffs back to back to back to back

[strong halo]

bro its objectively a sick fight

[vivid vessel]

I mean it's not that it feels bad

[strong halo]

even if its kinda dookie for outlaw

[vivid vessel]

It's that you are giving legit 10% st for irrelevant aoe

[stiff vector]

Ye and that feels bad

[fallen knot]

for hc yea agree

[vivid vessel]

It's hc idc

[fallen knot]

but pad is life

[slate forge]

Dragon riding is a gimmick shouldn’t be in raids/dungeons

[vivid vessel]

But if the fight is the same in mythic

[fallen knot]

maybe on mythic add dam will be giga important

[strong halo]

Its not irrelevant if it helps me parse

[vivid vessel]

And outlaw players play pc

Idk what to say

[fallen knot]

but then again bring 5 aff locks and a couple of spriests

[gaunt phoenix]

aff locks sandbagging sims i see

[fallen knot]

i go eat bye

[vivid vessel]

surprised?

[cinder relic]

The AoE isn't irrelevant tho

[royal ermine]

I made it in the screencap lets go

[fallen knot]

please chat find a fix for my rep bug i'm considering deleting the bnet account

[gaunt phoenix]

the raid rep stuff is so lame idk how they are happy with it

[strong halo]

Bro i just remember Hunters telling me they are "troll" tier in M+

[vivid vessel]

bro on the boss were you drop the adds behind and they go trough boss

idk convince me

[stiff vector]

Also it’s not just 10% ST because without old tier playing 1fth pc trickster can have some really shitty low points of you get a few shit rolls/lack of cto procs or get forced downtime on the fight

[vivid vessel]

you could make an arguement for lithuivim

[late swallow]

liquid's not even running a rogue atm

[vivid vessel]

even tho they were irrelevant for myu guild

[late swallow]

[tight kernel]

Yo anyone killing first 4 bosses HC real quick? Need to fix something

[slate forge]

Of course why would you?

[late swallow]

yellow color rounds out raid frames nicely

[dense ruin]

this is the only right answer

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix

[gaunt phoenix]

!?@#?#!@#

[vivid vessel]

have we ever looked into how fb was working

in term of getting fucked by aoe

is it around you

[gaunt phoenix]

Wdym

[vivid vessel]

around target

how far is it

etc

[simple gull]

i skipped last patch so have 0 tier, does it matter if i run fatebound or trickster for raid?

[vivid vessel]

like im seeing stuffs like these for example

where the adds are scenery

and im wondering if fb is getting hard fucked or not

and if i can do anything about it

[tight kernel]

I kind of go off your BF target count tracker

and just copium and pretend im ok

[gaunt phoenix]

im not sure

[willow portal]

lets go

first boss hc looking good

[hybrid crown]

I think the affix orbs fuck with PC btw

[tight kernel]

they do

[vivid vessel]

i mena prolly

[tight kernel]

they also eat your KS damage

[vivid vessel]

you can build cp on it

[hybrid crown]

I hate that

[vivid vessel]

[tight kernel]

I wish, they would make KS interact with GS. Like KS prioritizes enemy with Ghostly Strike debuff or something

[vivid vessel]

nah but wiat

[hybrid crown]

And blind still has that issue 😭

[vivid vessel]

hear me out tho

i have a crazy idea

what if

ks

hit your target ?

instead of random ones

or

[tight kernel]

wait youre cooking

[vivid vessel]

ye idk that might be too wild

[cinder relic]

what dont u like abt it?

[tight kernel]

so rework ks again like convoke rework

[covert kestrel]

yeah thatd be nice, esp in shitter keys with affix this week when its shooting the fucking affixes that spawn

[tight kernel]

also hear me out.. just do 12s

no affix

gg

[covert kestrel]

us mere mortals have a bit of a slog to get there

[willow portal]

have you ever tried shooting tho

you just wave your gun and hope for the best

[vivid vessel]

ok waht about bte and ps

are they excenpted from this lore

[willow portal]

wdym dont we just hit the enemy with the gun?

[violet ferry]

Blizzard: “if Outlaw Rogues would like to have their shooting abilities hit a priority target instead of random ones, to consider swapping to Hunter.”

[willow portal]

survival then right

[deep cedar]

what do we craft 1st? weapon?

[vivid vessel]

if you are an outlaw one trick ye prolly

there is a wepaon from third boss tho

but ye

i would craft a weapon

[keen belfry]

i crafted a sword zac

[deep cedar]

kk thx

[latent belfry]

why cant we be a true hybrid class and have more ranged moves? i miss the old acrobatic strikes 😭

[vivid vessel]

ye awang

i would aswell

if i would play outlaw only

[keen belfry]

my prog aint serious enough to warrant a dagger

[copper radish]

Can it channel still and just make us immune to everything 🙏

Also if I could kick during it without stopping the channel that would be 🔥

[latent belfry]

FORREAL, ive let some cast go by cause of that lmao

[copper radish]

I mean in real life if u sending guns left and right like that you’d still be able to kick…. Right? Lol

[latent belfry]

outlaws are supposed to be extremely flexible/ athletic so IRL they should be able to kick while shooting

[icy hare]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sweet iron]

Mainly the fact that a dragonriding mechanic is back again after (i thought) people didn't like it in DF

[gaunt phoenix]

it cucks outlaw a bit

also the opening gate specifically kicks outlaw out of stealth and not sin/sub

which is the lamest shit in existence

[vivid vessel]

nice opener

cuh

[gaunt phoenix]

i actually dont like this fight at all

[vivid vessel]

i havenmt done it yet

but i know i wont like it

[gaunt phoenix]

the size of his hitbox is negative 3

[vivid vessel]

its not my kind of fight

its cool for people that like cool visuals i guess

big rp enjoyers

[sweet iron]

yeah it is visually great i can give it that

[gaunt phoenix]

meh he has the same kologarn skeleton from 17 years ago

he just big

[jovial sedge]

quick question - with the new opener macro tech, do we roll before the pull and give up one loaded dice or roll after the macro?

[gaunt phoenix]

you roll after

[jovial sedge]

aight, thought so

[gaunt phoenix]

macro roll bte

[jovial sedge]

in the apl from quick sim it rolls before

[gaunt phoenix]

i fixed it the other day

ah maybe sim Latest mode not weekly

[sudden iron]

mailemental doesnt work? sims well but seems like it didnt proc

[gaunt phoenix]

it prolly doesnt work

it seems a bit arbitrary if our poisons can proc some of these 'ranged' trinkets

when we are normally not supposed to

[fathom bramble]

do you think it needs can proc from procs for poison to work?

[jovial sedge]

ok cool

[alpine bough]

i am supposed to press adrenaline rush on cd on st ? or if i have like 5sec left of AR i wait to refresh when it expire ?

[gaunt phoenix]

not sure

[gaunt phoenix]

generally yes you slam AR

but on like the last 2 bosses

if you are about to jump/fly then hold it

[inner stump]

after playing a few keys, 1 point in FtH feels weird af

[gaunt phoenix]

yeh it does

You can technically go 2fth

[inner stump]

almost taking the dps loss to go 2fth

yeah

I'll probably do more dmg because of consisntency, my brain is hardwired to send FtH on low cps

[cinder relic]

But its so fucking cool

[gaunt phoenix]

mehhh

[cinder relic]

R u telling me u didnt get chills when he died and hes like

THIS DOESNT END HERE

and then he sends u to the fucking twisting nether

[gaunt phoenix]

i think the fight is slightly goofy

hard to suspend disbelief

[late swallow]

What’s life like in the nether you think?

[cinder relic]

First solo L

I'm sorry to say

[gaunt phoenix]

with his big fuckass model

and when he smashes the planet into little rocks

it just looks dumb to me

LMAO

Idk something like argus or jailer was way cooler

[vivid vessel]

[gaunt phoenix]

i am salty about the stealth tho

taints my opinion

[cinder relic]

jailer was so fucking good

lame villian but the raid and the last boss were so good

[slate forge]

Then I mount up on my space lizard and fly through space

[dawn talon]

zovaal wasnt that bad

[strong halo]

Bro the crafting locks u in for like 2 weeks on a spec

[gaunt phoenix]

just drop a mythic weapon

[cinder relic]

Yes this is a downside of the crafting system

[slate forge]

Be only rogue craft sword get dagger no one wants

[covert heart]

I really like the last boss thematically

[stiff vector]

its not rly that bad tbh, you can easily just farm some daggers from 10s and be able to play sub/sin just fine

[vivid vessel]

[covert kestrel]

Downside of rogue being the only triple dps class that you can't play all three with the same weapon

Fuck survival

[gaunt phoenix]

hunter ?

[covert heart]

Hunter

[gaunt phoenix]

i see

[covert kestrel]

LOL

[cinder relic]

feral?

[covert kestrel]

Triple

[cinder relic]

Ig only 3x dps

But like, other specs have this issue

[vivid vessel]

not the same role tho

ranged vs melele

[covert kestrel]

Thank you zac I was afraid my point was cooked

[frail veldt]

Lol it is cooked

[covert kestrel]

[covert heart]

It was cooked

[vivid vessel]

only thing cooked is outlaw every tier cause you cant equip daggers main hand

[covert heart]

Yea but daggers are ugly

[cinder relic]

I think frost has to commit to either a 2hander or a 1hander rn

For aoe vs st build

[frail veldt]

You can play sub and outlaw with the same weapons

Technically

[vivid vessel]

stfu mewop

[frail veldt]

Oh whaaaaat

[vivid vessel]

you can also play outlaw wiothout off hand mewo

idk if you knew

[frail veldt]

True

Good point zac

[dense bolt]

I use my fists

fuck weapons

?

[frail veldt]

Guess we don't have it that bad

[pearl trout]

if Outlaw could equip daggers main hand

https://tenor.com/view/arcoiris-felicidad-mundofeliz-gif-25768641

[cinder relic]

yeah

[fallen knot]

*if assa and sub could equip main hand weapons

[frail veldt]

that sounds awful haha is it actual talents that treat 2h vs 1h differently or is it just how the abilities are implemented?

[willow portal]

i am not gonna get the boots guys

:(

[late swallow]

It’s been like that for frost since season 1

[willow portal]

@vivid vessel why i am not first here

[vivid vessel]

boomie sandbagging

[late swallow]

Oh wait nvm misread that

[vivid vessel]

also i cant know without seeing the sims so

[hybrid crown]

Outlaws cape damage doesn't seem to be that good compared to other dps

[vivid vessel]

its a proc

damage

why wouldnt it

be better

[hybrid crown]

I was just looking at boss by boss damage done by cape and maybe it's rng

[stiff vector]

it does seem a bit rng tbh, ive seen it barely proc and not do that much damage, and ive seen it pop off

[hybrid crown]

But didn't seem like outlaw was like op cape spec

Its up there yeah

[stiff vector]

but when I tested it on PTR in longer tests, it was consistently pretty high

[main vapor]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[gaunt phoenix]

outlaw should be up there

[willow portal]

isnt tho

[gaunt phoenix]

can you link something that can be investigated instead of screenshots of numbers

[hybrid crown]

Yeah I think looking at a few outlaw parses filtered by cape damage might be good to look at

I'm consistently seeing like hunters do more cape damage than me

The crit rate of the cape proc seems to be pretty important

[willow portal]

i mean it was more meant as a joke because its probably just ilvl + stats

[gaunt phoenix]

a quick glance at template sims, it looks like havoc, mm, arcane, and ww have similar cape damage as outlaw

[willow portal]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3tAAgtnnr3iSRbbPoro7jE
dh
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pvrcEaPrJVuuStkp71cvPE
me

[unique fulcrum]

stepping into the raid now guys!! wish me luck

[light dune]

would rolling like this additionally be ok?

[covert heart]

I believe its talent choices and a slightly different play style

[buoyant cosmos]

How is second to last boss on heroic feeling?

[gaunt phoenix]

if you have 3 buffs above container and 1 buff below the container

Yeah you would roll

[warm remnant]

would you ar before you take tp on dimensius or as you get there

[gaunt phoenix]

if you are fatebound i would do it there for coin damage

Trickster doesnt care

[buoyant cosmos]

Wouldn't you lose the combo points from doing it before when the fight starts?

[light dune]

So can I kinda apply the default rules to container logic like loaded dice roll if you lose 0-2 buffs and all that in general? Or would losing 2 buffs be too much with new tier

[gaunt phoenix]

ah maybe

[buoyant cosmos]

I was just doing it after last night

blast the add with KS

[gaunt phoenix]

The actual written rule in simc would not roll if you will lose 2 buffs

though i cant imagine it's a particularly big deal

you can prolly feelcraft it a little bit

if you will lose GM+BT then fuck it

roll away

[light dune]

yeee ok that feels good

but preserve good buffs?

[gaunt phoenix]

if you will lose RP+BS then maybe not

[frail veldt]

That's with new tier right?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah

if you have 3 buffs above container and 2 buffs below container

would not roll

but it's probably "fine"

if you did

[frail veldt]

I got so used to old rtb rules that's always the hardest part for me when outlaw changes

[light dune]

but it does roll with 1 buff below container?

[frail veldt]

So that's essentially will_lose <= 1

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah

it would roll with 1

below