outlaw

[willow portal]

:)

[vivid vessel]

i ever had to do

[dense bolt]

hey melvin

start delvin

[vivid vessel]

im aboutj to kill myself i swear to god

[willow portal]

i farmed flickergates for like 1.5h or sth yesterday

was chill

[vivid vessel]

idk what that is

[willow portal]

it spawns the new boss

next week

[vivid vessel]

what for

[willow portal]

-> bounty map

[balmy topaz]

Map

[vivid vessel]

ah

what do i need to do

[balmy topaz]

You wanna do it on 8 or higher

[willow portal]

free heroic item

wait you two are different people?

i just thought zac had renamed or somehting

[balmy topaz]

We’re brothers

[vivid vessel]

you werent there for the pooh invasion

[balmy topaz]

[jolly geyser]

[cedar kernel]

i am appreciate for ur commend my lord but thats the truth or reality

i accept the truth

[copper radish]

outlaw feels so crazy good in these heroic randoms lol

[trim harbor]

i tried to summon it last night and it didnt drop a map

dont summon it now

[willow portal]

its not s3 yet

i know

i had like 3 random spawns of it already

[balmy topaz]

Yeah so it in the season

Do*

[willow portal]

i got 6 spawner items tho and 8000 undercoins

[trim harbor]

brother man how

[jolly geyser]

she really wants you dead huh

[willow portal]

and bran on lvl74

[balmy topaz]

He’s a

[willow portal]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/s/TIR1XIOJjZ

[willow portal]

she a hater

[trim harbor]

i have a question about st rotation cuz its simming good but it seems i have no hands with it

how differetnt is fabebound playing than trickster

[balmy topaz]

Not much different

You favour sinister strike less and you care less about KS cd going into a vanish window

Also there are slight changes with pressing BtE

Such as waiting for ruthless

[edgy phoenix]

does someone have delves loot table for s3

?

[toxic laurel]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z1EynKeQLv9N7ZFVl1fobbTerLxXFzgf78LsGNCcP6w/edit?usp=sharing

Disclamer : This is only based on MDT and what the game tags as '' enrage '' , didn't try them myself so no clue if some of them don't interact as intended

[frank finch]

fyi

you can buy delve trinkets from vendor in s3

[frank finch]

[sudden fulcrum]

i just did it as a follower dungeon in like 5 minutes

[vital venture]

is there any trick to make kyveza not despawn on vanish

im losing my mind everytime im close to kill and it happens

🥹

[trim harbor]

try with trick and cast them on bran but idk how annoying is chasing her wherever he is

[vital venture]

im not even sure what makes it happen cus its like once every 30 vanishes or something

[willow portal]

i mean that wasnt my original question but that also helps me thank you :D

[sudden fulcrum]

you asked if it will give new rep - i showed that it does

[vital venture]

yeah no tricking brann makes him die perma

and i need his heal for when portals happen

[toxic laurel]

it happens when no damage comes or goes fast enough to break you out of not being in combat
So you will stay in combat if you or brann do damage fast after vanish ( this is what i felt )

don't ever vanish when kyveza is not melee range on you

but sometimes it is what it is the servers fucks you and gg go again

[vital venture]

i mean i guess if i slip up 0. something of no bte it despawns

[toxic laurel]

had a 10 % health despawn once so I feel you

this fight was not designed with rogue in mind

[vital venture]

tbf i would play sub cus i can live without vanish but on sub i get legit meleed to death by kyveza

idk what makes me on outlaw so tanky

[grim spear]

Every delve has this problem this season

complete crap

[sudden fulcrum]

what problem?

[mighty pivot]

no it's the rogue that wasn't designed around solo content

[grim spear]

Boss fight resets

when you press vanish

[vital venture]

i mean ngl i wish we had more content like this instead of M+ but its just annoying on rogue

and on my past boomie main its impossible to do cus i also die to melees

i guess if i were feral itd be ok

[toxic laurel]

Yes you are correct its the other way around

[magic shuttle]

kyveza is a good reminder how annoying it is that your 90 sec cooldowns don't reset

at least outlaw doesn't have that issue

[vital venture]

yeah flag not resetting is xDDD

[mighty pivot]

I would've done it as sub if it wasn't for the CD reset issue

[proven ocean]

@grim spear btw doesn't have to be that exact rogue

any top rogue is fine we kinda want all the best rogues in there

[willow portal]

bear tho

[slow oasis]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[trim harbor]

i have a question about M+ is it know what the scaling of lets say +10 will be compared to like +something from previous season(this will be first season playing from day 1 idk if something like this is known before it starts)

[vivid vessel]

well there is no change really this season

it will be similar difficulty

just you will have lower ilvl

at start

[trim harbor]

makes sense

[grim spear]

Well, is there any standard for this?

叶落 is pretty much the undisputed No. 1 Rogue, since he’s won an MDI.

As for the others, I can’t be the one to decide who to invite and who not to invite.

[vivid vessel]

is that yelluo

[grim spear]

yes

[frank finch]

whats the benchmark

[grim spear]

I’ve found someone and told him about this, but he hasn’t replied yet.

[willow portal]

you just have to attack instantly after vanish, its not 100% safe but it works

[proven ocean]

ye very high

dont want anyone who wants to learn anything about rogue

just people who invent things because they're too good

and dont want to learn basic rogue things

3.9k+ this season for example

for chinese u can just get any very good rogue it'll be good to have contacts with them

[willow portal]

kinda crazy that we have 5 3boss dungeons this season

[eager elk]

Hey guys, quick question here: I dont find anything about SnD in the Rotation or in the Guide. Can some1 explain if we dont use it?

[inland acorn]

You get SnD from dispatch so we're not pressing it anymore

[eager elk]

Thx man, i didnt realised it, thought only refreshes. Thx 🙂

[limpid plank]

i know its not much to brag about but this feels good

[short heath]

Which fights in the raid you think we are gonna pop off?

[desert tendon]

the ones where we re benched

[gaunt phoenix]

heavy cleave bosses

Like forgemaster, soulbinder

[fervent garden]

hey @vivid vessel @gaunt phoenix i pulled M+ i691 trinket this morning. good for now i guess ?

https://www.wowhead.com/item=242494/lily-of-the-eternal-weave?bonus=3173

[limpid plank]

forgeweaver?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeh

[gaunt phoenix]

ya sure

You should ping zac with every trinket you receive

I think he'll like that

[desert tendon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1212526973830570026/zachate.gif

[vital venture]

i held onto my vanishes since 35% 😭

shit took forever

[balmy topaz]

Green Zac

Those were the days

[lofty sand]

what u get from killing her?

[fallow hinge]

a sense of pride and accomplishment

also probably a title and the skin for the delve mount

[lofty sand]

i see

[desert tendon]

[lofty sand]

any delve fan knows whats the fastest delve today to farm?

[jolly geyser]

[crude flower]

How is everyone finding the new killing spree?
Was playing with a friend latley and they loved it :D

[spare dome]

fungal folly

[glass mortar]

I just put mine up for public wo and it was done in 3 minutes

[wintry solar]

It's fine

[glass mortar]

Put it up with mats and a 100g tip

[tawny vessel]

it's cool being able to press ks on danwbreaker without worrying about falling off the ship at least

you'll just die to one of the 700 other bugs in there instead like everyone else 🙂

[dim parrot]

Mid

[latent belfry]

its amazing, best change ever

[hidden bay]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[balmy topaz]

It could be better but it’s better than what we had

[dawn talon]

this button still pisses me off every time i have to press it but it pisses everyone else off less so i guess it's a net positive

[grave carbon]

It doesn't give me motion sickness anymore so it's an absolute win for me

[slow oasis]

The "Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer" is pointless now becs of the refreshed cd upon entering stealth or am I wrong?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeh it just functions as a standalone subterfuge timer now i guess

[vivid vessel]

i still like the sound at the end

also technically its better so you dont clip subts sometimes

like if you wanna subt into subt insta

if adr is falling of for example idk

kinda useless now ye

[slow oasis]

kk, thanks. I was trying to understand if im missing sth

[eternal isle]

hello guys ive seen @lean grove destroy the new ?? kyveza fight (he is the goat 🐐 ) and wondered how i can vanish without the boss resetting?

[random stirrup]

Can be nice if you come out of subterfuge with full cp and killing spree is up since you would rather press that than bte

[desert tendon]

Couple tricks on vanish is that you either trick brann or you press vanish 0.1s before pressing your next gcd

Either way it s shit

[vivid vessel]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[feral glen]

Are we going to play Fatebound on all bosses or 4/8 like Sin?

[formal snow]

sorry guys, but why do we play upperhand under cut on single target ?

[gaunt phoenix]

It makes it so adrenaline rush does not tick down in subterfuge windows

So part of the rules to use Vanish is that you only vanish when AR is active

[formal snow]

to keep it up, got it

[vivid vessel]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[white marten]

This game is not designed with rogue in mind*

[desert tendon]

This game is badly designed with rogue in mind*

[glass mortar]

idk why ur brann is asleep thats probably why she reset

i never had her reset but it can happen if brann dies or for whatever reason stops being a viable target

[desert tendon]

Weran à delve master

[glass mortar]

like in that video brann is running around like hes out of combat not fighting kyveza, i dont know why he would be in that state tho

[desert tendon]

How is this kyveza shit compared to last delve boss?

[glass mortar]

way more fun

best delve boss this expac easily

[vivid vessel]

its a real boss censi

[desert tendon]

I remember Having to play sub

[vivid vessel]

with raid mechanics

[glass mortar]

basically every mechanic failure 1 shots u

[desert tendon]

Week 1 last dudewas à réal boss

[glass mortar]

only cause people hadnt figured out the cheese

"cheese"

[desert tendon]

Shit was hard but mostly bugged

Had to go out of delve to proprely reset after each try

A cheese ? D:

[glass mortar]

well

cheesy way to kill it

the boss doesnt do anything

[desert tendon]

I played it normallyand fuck me that was tough

[glass mortar]

if u just run around kicking bombs into adds

he will never kill u

he does so little damage

[desert tendon]

Yea but he regens if u dont break the shield which is impossible as à mêlée if u dont do ballz

[glass mortar]

u can spend like 15 minutes killing the boss

[desert tendon]

Oh really

[glass mortar]

wdym why would u not do balls

[desert tendon]

Dude was hitting hard early

I remember dying to melee often

[glass mortar]

u literally just run around playing soccer with the adds anytime they r up and ignoring boss dps

then slow roll him and save up all ur resources for the shield burns

and the boss flops

[desert tendon]

Well week1 also

[glass mortar]

thats odd was ur brann not healing

yea idk i did it at like 655 ilvl idr what week that was

i musta had some m+ gear

[cold tide]

please god, why is kyveza resetting randomly on vanish? i can't take this

[desert tendon]

640ish 1st week

636 from last season

[glass mortar]

with healer brann he never really moved my hp bar even

[worldly shale]

me dying to her during portals is the thing that annoys me

[desert tendon]

Vanish in solo content

People discovering how shit it is

Dont complain to much

[glass mortar]

i mean its not supposed to be shit in delves

[desert tendon]

They ll delete vanish

[cold tide]

builds spec that requires vanish for both healing and DPS in solo content

YES THIS WAS MY FAULT

[glass mortar]

i almost never have stuff reset to vanish in delves

[desert tendon]

[glass mortar]

because of brann

idk why ur brann isnt on the aggro table tho

[cold tide]

i do get it when he's dead

[nova sinew]

i just vanish reset kyveza but at least i started next pull with lucky coin and kezan

[glass mortar]

yes u cant let him die

[cold tide]

but he was quite alive this time

[desert tendon]

Save brann

Or vanish only when you can insta break vanish

[glass mortar]

had u recently rezzed brann in that clip or something

maybe it takes him awhile to recompute

that he needs to hit the mob idk

delves have def been buggy this season, i quite often have mobs evade out or bosses despawn on my first gcd from stealth

but never mid combat

[cold tide]

i hadn't, but it's hard to say exactly what happened, she was doing her clone spawn charge phase so i wonder if she's resetting aggro each time she spawns an add?

[craggy barn]

zac did u kill kyvessa

also anyone having issues with loading into the game sometimes?
like my game will go unresponsive when loading into a char

[vivid vessel]

havent tried yet

[late swallow]

ez one shot for you king

stream it

[feral glen]

Are we going to play Fatebound on all bosses?

[craggy barn]

i kept forgetting to record my attempts

sadge

no

[vivid vessel]

ye sure i might

idk

[late swallow]

hey zomb

[vivid vessel]

its almost end of week tho

so

[craggy barn]

hi som

[vivid vessel]

i might just not have time

[craggy barn]

i already killed her

[late swallow]

i understand

when you get around to it, a stream would be goated

[vivid vessel]

ye but

if i dont do it this week

[craggy barn]

u shoulda done her this week

[vivid vessel]

there is no point

[craggy barn]

nothing else to do on live rn zac

[vivid vessel]

i will do it before the end of the week

yeye i know

[craggy barn]

what else have u been doing?

ptr ?

[vivid vessel]

but i havent been particularly excited

about it

nothing

legit

afking

[late swallow]

i guess week one is the move

i remember I did ?? zekvir during outlaw bug

[hallow crow]

outlaw meta?

[glass mortar]

i cba hp bar is just too long

will wait a bit of gear

its a fun fight but not a sit here and grind for 10 minutes fun fight

[craggy barn]

i think ive done every ?? week one of every patch

idk i have to check

if game ever decides to load

[glass mortar]

zekvir was a bit of a joke tho the only hard part of that fight for law was not having brann get aoe feared and pull the boss out the door to reset it

[desert tendon]

What is exciting to you zac

[glass mortar]

even on ?? it was like 5 minutes long

[desert tendon]

Besides tacos

[worldly shale]

kyvezza is like 10 right

[desert tendon]

Zekvir was shit

[worldly shale]

or am i bad

[glass mortar]

with her hp bar on ?? yes

shes like 10+ minutes long

super pumper warlocks ive seen do it in like 8m

[worldly shale]

Yeah im at like 60% in 4 mins

[desert tendon]

In couples weeks it s gonna be à 3mn

[worldly shale]

And we are degens who wanna do it firstweek

for whatever reason

[nova sinew]

its a bit annoying as outlaw with the downtime

[craggy barn]

i made it work

[desert tendon]

Bécause you have nothing else to do

And it s à challenge

[glass mortar]

u dont get any new mechanics either just the same hardmode mechanics for the full duration and her damage ramps over time to prevent u from slowrolling her like u could last seasons

[nova sinew]

i also have a tough time playing outlaw without staring at my weak auras

[glass mortar]

they at least learned that

[nova sinew]

i lost a lot of buffs during clone charges but

damage doesnt matter atall

[craggy barn]

just get into the zone

[nova sinew]

i had to cloak the execute at one point xd

[craggy barn]

i completely focus on the mask mechanic whenever it was out and just vibed my rotation

sound wa goated

[strong halo]

What we talking about here

Tavaresh hard mode?

[glass mortar]

kyveza ??

[worldly shale]

BRO I TRIED IT ON PTR

the hard mode

[gaunt phoenix]

??

[worldly shale]

GOD

if anyone does it week one

hats off

[glass mortar]

taz was always the most annoying hardmode of all the current mega dungeons imo

i didnt enjoy it in shadowlands

im not gunna enjoy it now

[worldly shale]

We went bonkers on gear, even tho it puts u to 707

4p

bis trinks

and we died

[jolly geyser]

I got the hardmode mount but dont remember doing it

[strong halo]

Is there any good rewards?

[worldly shale]

like 65 times

[glass mortar]

u can mog ur bros

with ur massive epeen gamer status

[slate forge]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[glass mortar]

and probably like a delve picture screen or something

no serious rewards no

[strong halo]

I’ve always wanted a bigger Epeen

[nova sinew]

"Contract Killer" title and delve mount appearance and epeen points

[cinder relic]

Most probably

[craggy barn]

mostly the epeen

[jolly geyser]

title is nice atleast

[cinder relic]

I think every boss except 2? 3?

[strong halo]

How hard is it?

This week

[glass mortar]

pretty damn hard

[cinder relic]

Its a 10~ min fight where most mechanics 1 shot u

[glass mortar]

honestly

like the mechanics arent super hard but they are very precise and a nonstop gauntlet for ~10 min of which u must be doing reasonable dps

[late swallow]

fatebound chads are eating so good it's unreal

almost makes me wanna come back

[glass mortar]

otherwise its gunna be like 15m and shes going to auto u to death (her damage also ramps over time)

[strong halo]

Anyone here have it done?

[glass mortar]

like 4 or 5 people now have posted screenshots of the achievement yea

[strong halo]

There’s nothing else to do might try it

687 ilvl i used all my luck 1st week

[glass mortar]

ye id be willing to spend more time on it if i wasnt playing wow like a job to get all my preraid reqs done because ive been unable to play all week

it is the best delve boss fight this expac so

[nova sinew]

i really hope they do more bosses like her

with more tangible rewards

[strong halo]

Bruv there’s not that much to do unless you grind rep like a maniac

[glass mortar]

gotta do my 8 m0 and 8 +8 delves

i have 2 dungeons done

[hallow spoke]

Is there a faq on when we drop 4 set s2 gear?

[civic void]

Yes, in the faq

[gaunt phoenix]

ya all the builds and rules and shit are updated

[strong halo]

What’s the best dungeon for loot from m+ for us?

[finite arch]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[cinder relic]

So much gear this tier is locked in

4 piece, 2 trinkets, at least 1 weapon, 2 crafted pieces, and then the cloak

[strong halo]

I got most of these from m0 lel

Are gloves are flex piece this tier?

[tawny vessel]

is taz m0 a thing this week? I couldn't find it in lfg earlier

[cinder relic]

Nope

[late swallow]

no relevant loot

[tawny vessel]

so just the 6 others for this season till tuesday?

[late swallow]

street shitter stay malding

[fierce yarrow]

Does someone have numbers or statistics for how far behind outlaw really is?

[jolly geyser]

you actually benched or farming?

[cinder relic]

Not that I'm aware of lol

[jolly geyser]

ah so the later or latter,english is hard

[rotund token]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[cinder relic]

I am not benched, as of now anyway lol

[jolly geyser]

[glass mortar]

[strong halo]

Is it even possible to get gear for multiple specs early ?

Trying to do the math on crests here doesn’t seem like it

[random stirrup]

assa/sub can share a gearset with like one ring swap, outlaw is omega cursed needing a different weapon and very specific haste requirements

[near rock]

[craggy barn]

bro im so pissed, shadowed unit frames preventing my game from loading

[willow portal]

is there a list what specs have the biggest gain from the raid boots with cloak buff?

[vivid vessel]

Outlaw

[near rock]

there is no list

but its outlaw

[willow portal]

thats what i want to see but a list would be cool

if i as the outlaw in my guild tell them i am the best target for the boots wont be as convincing

[strong halo]

@vivid vessel how are you gna gear up outlaw if you’re raiding as sub?

[dim widget]

he is the gm

all loot -> zac

[willow portal]

whats the reason some people just get like 30+ more carved crests than me?

[strong halo]

His crafts are still gna be limited

[dim widget]

they bought a token just before

[willow portal]

[jolly geyser]

you can get like 95 this week no?

got 5 left

two 691 weapons

[willow portal]

my dk had 120

[jolly geyser]

one pacemaker

what

[willow portal]

and i think other people had even more

[dim widget]

wait

renown rewards

ignore season limit

mby thats why?

[jolly geyser]

oh ye

like 12 renown?

[willow portal]

new renown doesnt reward runeds tho

and my dk didnt collect any

[dim widget]

you werent talking about runeds

[willow portal]

*carved

i meant carved

[dim widget]

ah oke

ye idk

cursed account

[vivid vessel]

People don't know that gear don't matter

It's just weapons

That's how I gear outlaw

It's not that hard to hit the haste threshold

Rest is just minimax

By the time I get to doing hard keys I will have 5 times your ilvl anywya cause of raiding early so it doesn't matter

[jolly geyser]

stop stressing

[vivid vessel]

Also I'm lucky

[jolly geyser]

not you zac

[vivid vessel]

I'm not stressed

[jolly geyser]

said in general

[vivid vessel]

I will get everything in vault anywya

Like

It's so easy

[jolly geyser]

should have some discord gambling for that

enough points and you can send tts message to all of the channel

surely that wouldnt backfire

[desert tendon]

zac

you ll get nothing in vault

you ll be stuck sub for progress

gg

[jolly geyser]

dagger tier

[near rock]

5 TIMES his lilvl

[random stirrup]

zac will be 3k ilvl

this is why he is r1 rogue, cheats

[fierce yarrow]

Zac how do you feel for outlaw in S3? honest opinion (I´m thinking for 3-4 weeks now what to main and I can´t let go of outlaw xD)

[vivid vessel]

Similar to s1 outlaw

As in it's not great in m+ at all

Idk if it's worse than s1 or not

It's hard to compare cause in s1 no one did phys comps

So outlaw might has been not that bad in s1 if you just played it with phys comps instead of slotting it into everything

But ye it's way worse than S2 so

Idk

Very fun tho

[fierce yarrow]

I plan on playing it in pure pyhsical group, but if its not "great" I don´t wanna force friends to play parts of the pyhsical comb <.<

[vivid vessel]

You don't die from killing spree anymore

Well

Wind walker is worse

Warrior is worse

So there is that

It can always be worse

[stiff vector]

yeah only downside now is why would you take outlaw in phys comp

when bleed assa exists

[strong halo]

Prbly gna be more tuning though

[late swallow]

Zac the kinda guy to not look both ways when he crossed my mind

[jolly geyser]

surely

after 1 or 2 week

[vivid vessel]

I look 3 times left 2 times right

[jolly geyser]

wish they ignore rwf, I wanna see them panic

[fierce yarrow]

so would you suggest, starting on a better performing spec and coming back to my fav. outlaw later?

[frail veldt]

whats your other option?

outlaw is far from performing so bad that its unplayable

[stiff vector]

only problem is tuning wont really fix things, it will just make the spec somewhat competitive. And even tuning it is problematic because our ST specifically w/ PC+1FTH needs a substantial buff, aoe doesnt need as big of a buff but itd be hard to do without nuking PC, buffing aoe a lot, substantial ST buff(so trickster isnt as bad, prob corresponding fatebound nerf if its too high after). Cant fix the prio dmg tuning wise though.

[fierce yarrow]

I got mage, shamin, dh, dk, shadow priest ready

[vivid vessel]

aoe does need as big of a buff lol

i think you dont realize

how much behind we are

compared to s2

[frail veldt]

there are many outlaws in this chat who will be playing outlaw throughout this whole season with no issues

[stiff vector]

very behind

[vivid vessel]

but maybe you think s2 we were overtuned

[frail veldt]

you can overcome a lot of "spec is bad" by just playing well

[vivid vessel]

and outlaw should never as good as s2

[frail veldt]

we were about as well tuned as we could be

our st was very balanced s2

[stiff vector]

just saying aoe prob doesnt need as big of a buff as 1fth trickster needs a ST buff

[frail veldt]

our AoE was def amongst the top specs

[vivid vessel]

i think we were good but not overtuned

[frail veldt]

yeah we were just below S tier

[vivid vessel]

the spec was still not played outside of phys comps

[frail veldt]

strong A tier in m+

[vivid vessel]

and it was played by like 3 people

[proven ocean]

#buffoutlaw

[balmy topaz]

How about we all untalent PC and show how much dmg we do below 3-5 targets

[vivid vessel]

i hate pc

such a trash talent

[stiff vector]

I mean I think outlaws aoe in s2 was basically tuned how it should be given the specs dmg profile, if the spec isnt extremely strong in 3-8t then what is the point

[vivid vessel]

ye

[balmy topaz]

Soft cap when

[jolly geyser]

flaccid cap when

[stiff vector]

rn the specs like 2-4t is carried by PC being a stupid talent, but im pretty sure assa is better in 5-8t and ofc just overall much better designed/better dmg profile, so what is the point of outlaw in phys comp when you can just play bleed assa

[balmy topaz]

I feel like we’re tuned for raid

Not m+

[vivid vessel]

well ye

pc issue

[balmy topaz]

Ye

[stiff vector]

ye I feel like thats kind of a weak excuse tho

[vivid vessel]

im just gonna start calling outlaws thatr play pc in raid padders

@near rock

[balmy topaz]

Disgusting

[stiff vector]

were not really tuned for raid, were punished that PC is as strong as it is and blizzard thinks its strong for raid

I wouldnt call our ST tuned for raid, its just the incredibly small, rare niche of low target cleave...its just bizarre to neuter the erst of the specs performance because of an extremely niche thing

[vivid vessel]

do people play healer breann

or dps

for the kyveza thing

[balmy topaz]

Healer

[stiff vector]

def healer

[balmy topaz]

I’d love for you to try dps

[near rock]

if we're not tuned for raid but PC is so strong in raid specifically that we're tuned for it....then we're literally tuned for raid

[fierce yarrow]

Zac how bad are we in a none phyiscal comb compared to the top dogs?

[balmy topaz]

[fierce yarrow]

xD

[balmy topaz]

Compared to the top were a good chunk off

If we didn’t get BF nerfed x2 I think I’d be fine

[frail veldt]

what delve are yall spamming this week?

whats an easy one

[keen belfry]

the new one was fast for mew

me

[fierce yarrow]

So should I just give up the "fun" and go assa or havoc and wait for better tuning for my return to fun? <.<

[frail veldt]

outlaw is not that undertuned

assa isnt that much better

and it depends what level of content you do

what key levels were you doing last season?

[copper radish]

How’s sub looking for keys?

[frail veldt]

good in lower keys but falls off in longer pulls in high keys

[stiff vector]

I mean my point is that I just think its a really poor excuse to give blizzard the benefit of the doubt regarding the specs tuning when there is maybe a few bosses in the raid that are favorable for outlaw and PC, and its TBD how good outlaw will even be on those fights compared to other specs(were certainly not going to fair well at all in boss dmg)

[fierce yarrow]

really I thought assa is so much better oO
hmm nothing "good" since I didn´t try to push I only did 16s but no death runs most of the time

[frail veldt]

ofc were tuned for raid

blizz tunes for raid first and foremost

every season

[frail veldt]

then outlaw will do the highest dps

if youre doing 16s

outlaw is still one of the highest dps spec in mid to low key levels

[fierce yarrow]

even with no physical buffs?

[frail veldt]

yes

most of the time when people talk about outlaw being "undertuned" they are talking about myhtic raid and top 0.1% keys so like 20s

[near rock]

I mean if u go back and look at the stats, outlaw has for the entirety of this expansion performed in the top half of all the dps specs in raid so far

both in boss dmg and in overall

i think giving them the benefit of the doubt is fine if we're just looking at raid

[fierce yarrow]

so if I play "clean" I won´t burden my friends in our dog keys? xD

[frail veldt]

absolutely not

youll top dps

outlaw destroys low keys

[glass mortar]

u might get carried on bosses

ur aoe will be fine in that level of keys tho

high even

[frail veldt]

ah yeah our st did kinda go to shit this season

[fierce yarrow]

we got some mm hunter in the team so not sure who has better burst 😄

[frail veldt]

but in overall youll crank

[frail veldt]

outlaw has 0 burst

so its mm

[fierce yarrow]

I know I don´t have burst

just consistant perma dps

thats what I love about outlaw

[keen belfry]

One thing to know quality, wow is unironically a very balanced game for MOST of the playerbase. It’s a game where good play triumphs in MOST content. When u see ppl complaining about tuning here they are talking about the hard hard content

[fierce yarrow]

you go nuts 30 min not 20 sec every 2 min xD

[fierce yarrow]

thanks good to know

I probably watch to much kira and yoda cause those guys lists fucked my opinion xD

[keen belfry]

They do world first keys

[vivid vessel]

i mean

ok but

[keen belfry]

They play the game where 1% matters

[trim harbor]

in ST with outlaw i feel like i cant generate combo points or its just slow

[vivid vessel]

idk

[keen belfry]

I get u Zac dw we are not good spec

[frail veldt]

likely some rotational mistakes

[keen belfry]

I’m just saying I don’t think we should scare off people do 16s from outlaw

[frail veldt]

!commonmistakes

[ornate heath]

Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.

[stiff vector]

if youre doing 15s/16s, you shouldn't be asking what other people think you should force yourself to play, you should just play whatever youre comfortable on and best at

if thats outlaw, great.

[vernal harness]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[fierce yarrow]

I can totally agree with that, I just don´t wanna hold my friends back. They started to get into m+ cause of me. Thats why I´m trying my best to give them the best expierence, so if outlaw would be "bad" I rather play one of my other toons and "help" them better.

[cinder relic]

They also spend months balancing the game after the patch

The game is only poorly balanced at the extreme high end which like

They even still try to somewhat balance around

But when the game is asking for so many different things, and so many specs are very unique, it's hard to be perfect yk

[keen belfry]

we speak in hyperbole here, me included. when i say outlaw is shit i mean in very hard keys where % matters. wow is no cap a very very balanced game

ye

u cant really balance

title key level

you can balance it decently

[cinder relic]

I mean look at a spec like balance druid for example. Or udk in old MDI seasons

Balance druid isn't really an outlier anywhere, except keys pulled around it YK

[keen belfry]

but so much goes into strength more than dps, and if you give everyone the same shit in m+ then every spec is the same as every other spec and wed complain about that

bdruid is also OP in m+ for non dps reasons too

[cinder relic]

Yer

[keen belfry]

hard to halanec

beam and vers buff

kinda strong!

[craggy barn]

where ks badge 😠

[keen belfry]

I just think outlaw needs to be good in title keys that’s my complaint

I feel like ATM I’ll be actively gimping my team

But I also don’t do r1 keys, I’m a level or 2 below

[cinder relic]

Outlaw seems a bit undertuned rn for that content. I'd be shocked if it doesn't get adjustments alongside all the op specs

[keen belfry]

Same

[craggy barn]

dw

[keen belfry]

It’ll be good when it matters

[craggy barn]

they will buff balance druid

[fierce yarrow]

Thanks for all the explanations 🙂 now I feel way more comfortable to play outlaw 😄 even though I won´t get invited xD

[craggy barn]

again

[cinder relic]

Remember when outlaw was doomed s2 and then they fixed a bug

[stiff vector]

I mean part of that problem is also that outlaw/rogue just isnt attractive compared to other specs from a utility perspective, so our damage needs to be worth bringing.

[keen belfry]

I mean having to play KS is doom worthy

[vivid vessel]

hopefuly we find another bug

i like that the only tuning we get

is forcing them to fix bugs

[craggy barn]

we're being held back

[vivid vessel]

guys remember the time outlaw was so doomed we had to force them to fix bugs to gain a drop of dps

[stiff vector]

maybe one day they fix the grappling hook bug...I swear that shit has happened like fucking 100 times already in the new zone

but after like 6+ years, I aint holding my breath

[frail veldt]

they wont lol

grapple doesnt have an arc to it

so if theres any risk of you falling through the ground

they just cancel the grapple

[stiff vector]

just another example of peak outlaw design that plagues the spec

[frail veldt]

its kind of a conflict though

like grapple can get canceled

right

[stiff vector]

I understand

[frail veldt]

mid grapple

[stiff vector]

but

[frail veldt]

so would you rather risk falling through the gorund?

[stiff vector]

just dont design an ability like that then lmao

[desert tendon]

Guys remember when zac wasnt playing wow and this discord was so good and peacefull?

@vivid vessel btw did you start the game by outlaw???

[vivid vessel]

ye

[vernal harness]

guys, how much unbuffed haste we need for KiR / HO builds and therefore is it better to run HO in m+ next week if we dont have enough haste % ? Since I need to regear from playing sub xd

[frail veldt]

hindsight is 20/20

[desert tendon]

!stats

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[desert tendon]

[vernal harness]

ty

is the current HO build pinned here somewhere? cant find it

ah nvm

im blind

[frail veldt]

shouold be in the faq

#outlaw-faq

[limpid vortex]

What's the best way to fix casting too slowly because of I think lag? When I look at my uptime there's a very small delay between almost every spellcast. Do I just up the spellqueue window?

[frail veldt]

yeah

thats p much only thing you can do

[limpid vortex]

Ok gotcha

[frail veldt]

what areyou at currently?

[limpid vortex]

I don't know how to check

[frail veldt]

gotta use an addon like "advanced interface options"

but if youve never changed it hten youre at the default which is 400

idk if I would suggest going above that

[gaunt phoenix]

cant go above 400

[limpid vortex]

200

[frail veldt]

oh well there ya go haha

oh yeah you can up it

from 200

if you feel like you have delay between gcds

but I would check a log

to make sure thats actually the case

higher sqw wont make it "feel" any less laggy

itll just improve the actual output

[tight kernel]

[frail veldt]

?

[limpid vortex]

This info is from wowanalyzer, where I have kinda low casting uptime despite being in range. And this fight is cauldron where you can basically always cast

Very common to have the red on my logs

[frail veldt]

oh okay cool

yeah try out a higher window

[limpid vortex]

Ok thanks

[frail veldt]

id go up to like 280 or something

any less might not be noticeable

[limpid vortex]

Having it low makes fury warrior feel better, which is the spec I'm trialing with next week. Will be testing it until I find a good sweet spot

[trim harbor]

how much dps are u guys doing on st

[limpid vortex]

My gear is low but I'm sure someone else can answer that

[frail veldt]

I do close to my sim dps lol

just sim yourself

and aim for like within 5-10% of that

[trim harbor]

well my sim is outdps me by a cool 600k

[frail veldt]

then you got some problems haha

!commonmistakes

[ornate heath]

Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.

[frail veldt]

#outlaw-faq

[limpid vortex]

Also change to target dummy on quick sim for more accurate results

[frail veldt]

Yeah make sure your sim has the same buffs that you currently have

[limpid vortex]

Don't give your sim bloodlust lol

[frail veldt]

lust does very little for us

[trim harbor]

ye ik i mainly played it in m+ with HO im trying to adjust to kir

[frail veldt]

its the other buffs that matter

like battle shout and monk buff

[trim harbor]

ill sim it rn without any buffs just consumables

sims for 2.949 and im doing like 2.5 never played it in st scenarios except for bosses in m+

[frail veldt]

hows your adr uptime compared to the sim

make sure you hit the dummy for a good 3 minutes to check adr uptime

[trim harbor]

for the 2.5m it was 95.4%

[frail veldt]

you should be fine then

surprised youre still 20% dps below your sim then

[trim harbor]

i thinks its moslty cuz i dont have KiR finesse when to cast it to get most out of it

[frail veldt]

@vivid vessel scenario for you, youre at 3 EB stacks and no PS procs and you press KS. Do you still let KS build all the way to max cp and then dispatch->SS->Coup at low cps? Or you think it might be worth to cut the KS short by 1/2 cp and SS into max cp coup?

[late swallow]

Mewo’s one on one coaching services are goated

[frail veldt]

lol ive done nothing but refer to the bible of Solo

[late swallow]

Then who did I paypal 2k USD?

[frail veldt]

I am nothing but a shepherd

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/shishiro-botan-sheep-happy-vibing-jamming-gif-25074365

[tight kernel]

Elusiveness or Cheat Death for kyveza

[vivid vessel]

we simmed it

it was neutral to cut short

i assume it doesnt happen often tho

[proven ocean]

guys did u do the ?? challenge

or

[vivid vessel]

i dont cut it short but thats cause i have a macro so i dont cancel ks with ss

cause of gullzer back in df

but i do press ss everytime that scenario happen !

[proven ocean]

ngl the most fun shit

i've ever done

[vivid vessel]

it just doesnt stop it for me gg

[proven ocean]

in like

5 years

[frail veldt]

it feels like it happens surprisingly often

[proven ocean]

holy shit

wemo

listen

stop typing

wemo

[frail veldt]

but yeah maybe its just cuz im leveling/delving

[proven ocean]

or i ban you (icant)

ok

listen

do the ?? challenge

no cappi

insanely fun

[frail veldt]

I havent done it

[proven ocean]

i did it on oultaw

[frail veldt]

Im trying to get my vault done

[proven ocean]

dont do it on sin/sub

on outlaw u get a huge rush

chaotic fight + outlaw

holy shit

did it with 91% AR uptime

nuked his ass

[worldly shale]

im getting arthritis

[proven ocean]

er bugged movement phase

[frail veldt]

oh interesting

[proven ocean]

for cdr

[frail veldt]

I just dont press buttons during ks

lol

[proven ocean]

its legit crazy

wemo

its harder than any mythic boss in the game

[vivid vessel]

i did that back when we had guzzler

[proven ocean]

its actually hard

[vivid vessel]

cause you wanna spam your spell

[frail veldt]

aaaah

[vivid vessel]

at the end of the channel

now i should remove it

[cold tide]

@proven ocean did you do something to avoid vanish resets? i keep losing pulls to it during clone phase

[frail veldt]

yeah its nice to not have to press a second cancel button

I can just dispatch as soon as it hits max cps

[copper radish]

Did u tricks brann or did u tank it

[proven ocean]

i tanked it

u can tricks brann?

[copper radish]

Bigger rush taking that boss to the face

[proven ocean]

wtf

[copper radish]

Yeah lmao

[proven ocean]

ah

[copper radish]

Infinite tricks on brann

[proven ocean]

i just tanked him natty wtf

lmao

[cold tide]

you can but i tried tricks and it makes brann die

which is no bueno

[vivid vessel]

i just tanked it

[proven ocean]

fdunny thing

is

[vivid vessel]

and then idk

[proven ocean]

he died in my run

[vivid vessel]

neverh had it reset

you just vanish and insta break

[proven ocean]

i had to double grapple

the portals

[vivid vessel]

vanish late into gcd

[proven ocean]

LOOOOL

[worldly shale]

Sounds better than it is, he dies too fast

[vivid vessel]

so you insta break

[proven ocean]

it was so funny

[frail veldt]

yeah thats what I found works best

have to vanish late or off gcd

[fathom bramble]

is it any differeent from normal open world vanishing?

[copper radish]

Sucks when u vanish and don’t do it fast enough and he resets sub 20% 😂

[frail veldt]

open world is more jank

I found in open world if you stun the mob you can vanish more easily

idk why

[fathom bramble]

true

but even open world vanish-bte instantly nearly always works

just have to not be mid gcd

[cold tide]

it's definitely less shit than open world where i expect a reset

[fathom bramble]

I expect myself to press it fast enough to not get a reset

there's also nothing stopping you from using a vanish+BTE macro

as long as bte is up and you are not mid gcd when you press it

[tight kernel]

#showtooltip Adrenaline Rush
/cancelaura stealth
/cast Adrenaline Rush

This macro for FB right?

[vivid vessel]

people dont know

[stiff vector]

ye sin is so good esp in the first half of floodgate

no buffs too besides mark

[strong halo]

Outlaw would be at 20m no cap

[frail veldt]

I had issues with this personally

if you cancelaura stealth theres like a 0.2 second delay before you get subt

so if you cancel then bte in that window, your bte will be on cd during stealth lol

[vivid vessel]

thats gone

99% sure

[frail veldt]

it was there early last season but that would be nice if gone

[vivid vessel]

99.999

[frail veldt]

And I wasnt even using a macro I was pressing my cancelstealth button and then pressing adr

and it would bug it out lol

ill try it out again though

[limpid plank]

how does this work exactly

is it a perma redirect?

[proven ocean]

it does what it says

[frail veldt]

it lasts 1 hour

[proven ocean]

1 hour tricks

not perma

[frail veldt]

as opposed to 15 seconds or whatever default is

[river escarp]

It's also has like a billion yard range so if your tank dies and releases in a key then the adds may all just start evade bugging and snapping or running to them unless you cancel the buff on yourself, so be mindful of that

[limpid plank]

thats legit crazy

[vivid vessel]

well

not realy

you only need trikcs at the start of a pull really

after that your tank got agro anyway '

i think perma tricks is super cool tho for chaining adds

or for starting hitting mobs super early into a pack

or for add spawns etc

[proven ocean]

thats not true

[tight kernel]

This vanish bs on kyveza is so cooked

[proven ocean]

alot of aggro reset issues this season

1 hr tricks masks it

aggro is at its worst since season 2

[river escarp]

I end up hitting tricks out of habit but yeah I do feel like if your tank dies or other weird stuff happens that the threat generation doesn't seem to work

[proven ocean]

if tank dies re apply

[frail veldt]

all my tank homies LOVE perma tricks

helps them so much

[proven ocean]

but

it should also redirect to him

[frail veldt]

you dont have ot actually

only if you die

[tribal cosmos]

Yall remember

[proven ocean]

^

wemo

ur sending

too fast

[tribal cosmos]

Shadowlands aggro

[proven ocean]

read

??

[tribal cosmos]

Warrior would just

[river escarp]

Yeah the reset bugs can be annoying, but if you're playing KIR then you can kinda use a scuffed pull to make a better start on the next one

[vivid vessel]

i mean perma tricks is goated

[tribal cosmos]

Rip aggro every pack

[vivid vessel]

i love it

[tribal cosmos]

HAHAHAHA

[vivid vessel]

couldnt play without it

[tribal cosmos]

Bro warrior shadowlands with spear

Instant rip

[arctic merlin]

is it odd that i find KIR really difficult to build points with esp on single target if ambush isn't supposed to be used?

[vivid vessel]

no thats kir

you dont have infinite resources

[tribal cosmos]

Not difficult

[vivid vessel]

as much as some people

[tribal cosmos]

Just spit on them

[vivid vessel]

like to say taht

[arctic merlin]

maybe i'm just really rusty but how are you suppose dto keep combo points up

if ambush isn't supposed to be used

[river escarp]

I've only just started caving in and trying KIR and it definitely feels more feast or famine than HO, so I get what Alonnie means.

[tribal cosmos]

Adren

Look over priorities

There are times you can be giga unluck but

Rare

[arctic merlin]

i've done so, but murphy's law tells me i'm doomed if i get 0 combo points from between the eyes for several times

and when i do so, it seems to me that ambush is the only combo point builder

[vivid vessel]

guys

[arctic merlin]

i've also seen that sims put KIR at about 4-10% more, but how does a sim even accurately account for that randomness, isn't the consistency from HO better?

[frail veldt]

SS/PS

[river escarp]

The sims also run like 10,000+ times so it's an average and range

[frail veldt]

ambush only generates 1 more cp than SS

and it costs more energy

[vivid vessel]

what do people do

[frail veldt]

and HO builds have less rtb buff uptime

[vivid vessel]

on live

like rn

[river escarp]

?

[frail veldt]

wdym

[vivid vessel]

i think i did everything

and im bored now

[river escarp]

Oh lol

[frail veldt]

oh

lol

go outside

go on a walk

[vivid vessel]

nah

[river escarp]

Uh run transmog/mount runs

[frail veldt]

go grab an icecream

coffee shop

[vivid vessel]

any degen farm idk ?

[frail veldt]

go on a run maybe

[frank finch]

delve flicker gates farm

go

[frail veldt]

clean your room up

[arctic merlin]

yes i use ss but prioritze ps over ambush?

[vivid vessel]

ye i heard about that one

how does it work

[frail veldt]

you never ambush

[glass mortar]

2

[frail veldt]

as KiR

it is a bad button

[river escarp]

^

[frail veldt]

ambush baseline is 3cps?

[arctic merlin]

yes i meant just ps if nothing else?

[glass mortar]

oh u mean for non talented builds

[frail veldt]

no

only PS if you have a proc

[glass mortar]

yea ambushs cost is too large when it cant proc PS

[tribal cosmos]

Sin

[frail veldt]

also go read #outlaw-faq

[glass mortar]

thats the big thing

[tribal cosmos]

Uster

[frail veldt]

all of these answeres are there

[tribal cosmos]

Strake

[vivid vessel]

blaaack

tell me

what do i dooooo

[tribal cosmos]

Cant teach outlaw prio

can only read it

[frank finch]

spam a delve that you can see almost the entire thing from the start , you a flickgate go click on it , if it spawns portal go in and complete if not leave delve repeat

[tribal cosmos]

@vivid vessel thoughts on how outlaw is 4 mil behind overall to sin and sub

[vivid vessel]

eh

[frail veldt]

wtf is that

[vivid vessel]

ok im not doing that

[willow portal]

fungal works nice as outlaw

[frail veldt]

whats that even for?

[vivid vessel]

they wouldnt believe me

[tribal cosmos]

Why would you farm flicker gate tho

[frank finch]

week 0 degen farm if ur bored

level brann

[tribal cosmos]

@vivid vessel 12 mil overall vs 8

[frank finch]

farm kyveza sumon item

[tribal cosmos]

While assa has real prio dmg

HAHAHAHA

[river escarp]

I don't think brann can even get exp right now? Unless I've just never noticed

[frank finch]

farm undercoin to buiy delve trinket from vendor

[vivid vessel]

how come i have 0

isnt that a bug

[frank finch]

what elose

[gaunt phoenix]

Noob

[river escarp]

Season end removed them

[vivid vessel]

like i did deleves

[arctic merlin]

no i get the priority, my point is if i'm in a single target scenario and my between the eyes doesn't refund points, what do i use to build them if i still got subterfuge and no opportunity

[tribal cosmos]

What does

[vivid vessel]

shouldnt i have a few at least

[tribal cosmos]

Delve trinket do ?

[vivid vessel]

im confusion

[glass mortar]

they reset seasonally

dont they?

[river escarp]

Yus

[vivid vessel]

ok but i ddi my delves this week

[tribal cosmos]

@arctic merlin reqd guude

[low gazelle]

Ss

[tribal cosmos]

Read guide

[glass mortar]

did u loot boxes at the end of those delves or did u just speedrun in and out

[frank finch]

what toon u on ? they are not accout wide

[random stirrup]

get the contract for karesh trust and do world quests on 50 alts

[vivid vessel]

[tribal cosmos]

Okay but like

[vivid vessel]

true

[tribal cosmos]

WHY get the trinkets

Its useless no ?

[vivid vessel]

no !

[tribal cosmos]

@vivid vessel finish kyvessa hard mode

Do it pussy