tru
#outlaw
stiff vector
vivid vessel
I don't know what thins means cuh
river maple
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
vivid vessel
What would you even do then
We are not doing anything we are a team of one tricks bro
timber rune
I don't know what thins means cuh
Suhh cuh 😮💨
It’s like… when it do, but before it even done. Been that. Always was. Never wasn’t.
You feel me.
vivid vessel
Idk why you would have an outlaw in it
red zinc
i mean ye
vivid vessel
If it doesn't do damage
tender wedge
Nah you just do one key level behind the actual meta comp and reset expectations of what it means to be off meta again
vivid vessel
It just limit what you can do for no reason so
red zinc
not enhance i guess since the nerfs
dim parrot
If you wanna know
Tell us
stiff vector
I mean at least we can still (probably) beat fury warriors, but they still do more boss damage than us 
lime lake
huge
red zinc
I mean at least we can still (probably) beat fury warriors, but they still do mo...
fury warrior more down bad than law at this point
lime lake
enhance really is just cooler looking outlaw
vivid vessel
0
stiff vector
not even kidding, Ive done more dmg in s1 on enhance than s3 enhance is doing on some pulls
proud dust
outlaw bis, just only ever pull one pack at a time 😉
vivid vessel
I mean
Look
Imma say this right
In S2 my best damage as outlaw is 20 mil
In S3 my best damage as outlaw is 20 mil
lime lake
maybe you just fell off
vivid vessel
I do litteraly the same AOE in S3
proud dust
lmaoo
mighty pivot
liar I've seen you do more
red zinc
I mean
lime lake
mighty pivot
like 26
red zinc
You high roll though
tender wedge
wtf I’ve capped out at like 13 or 14 someone send help
red zinc
You’ll get somethin way higher out of nowhere halfway through this season too
random stirrup
same dmg, 40ilvl difference
well you see, in one image he has a powerful singular grand melee buff, and in the other he has 6 buffs
proud dust
ok to do this right youd need to compare teh exact same pack
random stirrup
proud dust
or same target count
glass mortar
When I see 16 mill on ptr I know I'm playing
???
vivid vessel
16 I'm blasting
stiff vector
You know youre blasting and getting good rng on PTR when you can say "holy shit im doing s2 dmg"
vivid vessel
20 I omega procced out of my mind
Like I do 20 maybe once a dungeon max
Like big max
glass mortar
wasnt ur peak like 22m on live
stiff vector
vivid vessel
When all the stars align
vivid vessel
wasnt ur peak like 22m on live
20
vivid vessel
Also the max is higher on ptr
Cause of the trinket
You can hold it so much
Like you legit hold it for 3 min
It's a lot of stats lol
glass mortar
i dont really understand
red zinc
not great but you cant compare the smaller amount of runs on ptr to hundreds of runs on live
vivid vessel
That's why I get this high
vivid vessel
not great but you cant compare the smaller amount of runs on ptr to hundreds of ...
I mean dude
glass mortar
why our aoe needed compensation nerfs for the st buffs like
vivid vessel
I have
glass mortar
are we considered op on live
vivid vessel
100 of ptr runs
glass mortar
where we have the same ST to aoe ratio
glass mortar
or is everyones aoe getting squished/not scaling as well as their st in to the new season
vivid vessel
And I see my damage
stiff vector
I think youi can definitely compare PTR to live
you dont need 50000 iterations to know something sucks
frank finch
Only thing I know of are trinket nerfs
sudden fulcrum
you don't know though. you are just speculating
red zinc
no shit its worse
vivid vessel
or is everyones aoe getting squished/not scaling as well as their st in to the n...
I said in S2 that outlaw would get it's AOE nerfed in S3 cause it would look crazy in raid aoe
So
glass mortar
i just
vivid vessel
And I was right
red zinc
Just hard to compare a peak that happened once in a season to less runs on ptr
Even if its 100 on ptr
glass mortar
dont know how its possible our st is so undertuned on ptr that it needs all these buffs
but our aoe was too good
our aoe is a direct reflection of our st
stiff vector
once in a season? huh
glass mortar
how did it get too high while we got weaker st
vivid vessel
Just hard to compare a peak that happened once in a season to less runs on ptr
Ok but my average pack on ptr is not that much higher than on live tho
glass mortar
doesnt make sense
vivid vessel
It's barely higher
Like I will do half the packs in the dungeon I'm under 15 mil
I do the same shit on live dude
If I reach 15 on a pack I'm actually happy about it
red zinc
Guess the borrowed power also a factor in it
proven berry
gotta use the 1 button assistant
red zinc
Balancing aside
vivid vessel
how did it get too high while we got weaker st
Road weran
Raid
You don't get it yet do you
red zinc
Slightly worse tier
red zinc
Like 4-5% damage procs
vivid vessel
You are playing pc
glass mortar
were there just shit pc fights on live in raid
glass mortar
why werent we op in aoe on live
stiff vector
PC is just obviously problematic, I wasn ot happy to see it buffed
red zinc
were there just shit pc fights on live in raid
Other fights were too early in the raid to be relevant
stiff vector
not really
red zinc
well no cause adds die too fast
red zinc
Only oab it would be relevant but those adds arent up enough
vivid vessel
outlaw only look good early on in aoe
in raid
with pc
if it happens after prog
nothing will happen
red zinc
i mean if there was a two boss fight near the end of the raid
glass mortar
ok we r the ultimate padders on stix it looks like
red zinc
It would look pretty good
red zinc
Or three boss i guess
keen belfry
ok we r the ultimate padders on stix it looks like
ive done one stix as outlaw this tier, the dmg meters were funny
vivid vessel
:)
stiff vector
stix is literally just a pad fast for outlaw
red zinc
Itll look good on soul hunters the whole season prob
stiff vector
fest*
glass mortar
when they delet ur dungeon aoe because u pad too hard in raid
vivid vessel
i think i understand outlaw enough now
for these things
idk
its just so obvious
red zinc
Naw
glass mortar
idk u know
red zinc
You require 8 years of outlaw experience to be taken seriously
glass mortar
theres a lot of specs like this in the game
that get their dungeon aoe fucked due to raid
frank finch
Outlaw gonna be good in the middle of the raid with the aoe and then fall off a cliff
red zinc
(Has existed 7 years)
glass mortar
and that struggle with st in dungeons
its just basically never outlaw
outlaw has enough anchors weighing it down
remember when like 3 seasons ago u lost 4% dps going "aoe" build
from st
now ur giving up what
like 20%
fatebound st to trickster full aoe
vivid vessel
yep
glass mortar
xd
vivid vessel
they modernized all the bad aspect of the spec
or like
all the wrong aspects
the haste thing aswell
its the same shit how assa and sub got fixed
sub got bf
stiff vector
I wouldnt even call it modernization
glass mortar
this haste thing isnt even a modernization tho this is legit
vivid vessel
it just got worse
glass mortar
a wotlk passive
stiff vector
its just straight up horrible design and changes
glass mortar
should not exist
laughably bad design the haste thing
try not to talk about it too much cause i have nothing nice to say
stiff vector
if anything, its the opposite of "modernization", its like going backwards
torpid fiber
The haste thing is definitely going back in time, and it also feels kinda weird bc if they wanted to make one of haste/mastery good for us it surely would have been way easier to fix mastery
glass mortar
yes
the issue with fixing mastery is
that would just make outlaw a mastery/vers spec
stiff vector
Like they fixed plenty of stat scaling/mastery for other specs just fine by making real hooks into the specs that give real gains. The haste ADR change was so blatantly a horrible change and not actually a solution to terrible haste scaling that there is 0 chance the devs werent aware of it, but did it anyway.
vivid vessel
outlaw is going to be shit for so long now
glass mortar
irredeemable
glass mortar
glass mortar
yea i mean u squished the whole damage profile
the only way u do good in aoe is if u do turbo mega st
i mean its not impossible right
dont let urself be lawyerd by guy zac
stiff vector
well they created so many problems now, in addition to the previous ones that still arent fixed.
glass mortar
u could make this profile outlaw good
it would just need to do the most ST in the game by like 10%
🙂
haughty wigeon
i mean its not impossible right
its possible
vivid vessel
ye you just need to do 10% mroe st than everyone in the game weran
glass mortar
LUL
haughty wigeon
but kinda shows how weird outlaw aoe is
like
even arms grew from sweeping strike memes
vivid vessel
its not weird bro
haughty wigeon
and has actual aoe buttons
vivid vessel
you just
buff bf
or nerf bf
but you create issues
for yourself
with pc
that fuck up the whole game
cause pc is so strong in raid
glass mortar
well its my opinion that all outlaw builds should get deft somehow
haughty wigeon
yep
glass mortar
cause deft is super fun
stiff vector
I mean you could just revert the BF nerfs that were obviously completely unnecessary, then simply nerf PC
glass mortar
and adds enough difference to outlaw in aoe
haughty wigeon
i mean you probably take out pc
glass mortar
build a weaker version of it in baseline or move the talent down to not compete with capstones
haughty wigeon
problematic talents thats hard to tune usually get yeeted
glass mortar
i just think a talent that improves ur 2-7 target damage and competes directly with st talents always feels like shit,
and theres lots of tradeoffs like that in other classes
i just think they r also shit and dont want them on outlaw
torpid fiber
well its my opinion that all outlaw builds should get deft somehow
Yeah Deft is one of the most fun talents tbh
completely fixes the issue of bf feeling like ass to press
stiff vector
but I mean, even if you did that, still doesnt change the fact that our Prio damage is fucked, our ST will still be bad, fatebound aoe is still bad and has reverse prio talents that are insanely badly designed. And its hard for them to even fix the ST without significant aura buffs, but then our aoe would become super strong with reverted BF nerfs on top of aura buffs to make ST good.
vivid vessel
dont let urself be lawyerd by guy zac
even solo gaslight me on this one
stiff vector
theres just a lot of problems that arent going to be fixed with simply tuning
lime lake
torpid fiber
It isn't a nerf at current numbers it's only a nerf in a theoretical future, no?
haughty wigeon
its only a nerf in the future
and odds are it'll get tuned back up
who knows what happens in midnight
maybe big outlaw rework and the spec is different from before
glass mortar
if we get a herioc week nerf again it would be so funny
or even another ST buff/aoe reduction
thorny reef
i bet rogue gets a some love in midnight
haughty wigeon
expansions tend to reinvent every spec, and you know that more than anyone tbh
vivid vessel
except its the fact that outlaw aoe was bad, and the st was bad (yes of course why would the 2 be desunced suddenly) and they just buffed the st not the aoe
lime lake
cant get nerfed in heroic week if there is no heroic week
biggest buff outlaw ever got
vivid vessel
or even another ST buff/aoe reduction
we did this week btw
might have missed it
but thye nerfed nimble flurry
and buffed the st
glass mortar
xd
wintry solar
i bet rogue gets a some love in midnight
We got such few changes that I find it hard to believe we don't get a good bit next expansion.
vivid vessel
i told you im a knower
thorny reef
We got such few changes that I find it hard to believe we don't get a good bit n...
agreed
wintry solar
I'd wager we've never had such few changes actually
vivid vessel
@glass mortar
you wanna know something funny
and part of why assa always does this thing
when it get strong from nowhere
stiff vector
blizzards just dug themselves a huge hole now by ignoring the spec and not doing any actual iterating on it to fix fundamental design issues and instead just slapping aura buffs and shit on for 2 years.
glass mortar
but tell me
vivid vessel
well thats one part of it but no
because spatter
double dip with aura buffs
it get aura buffed everytime they aura buff the spec
normal forge
We got such few changes that I find it hard to believe we don't get a good bit n...
I'm kinda afraid for loosing S2 tier set bonus
wintry solar
I'm kinda afraid for loosing S2 tier set bonus
I am too but it's just one of those things yknow.
Sucked in df
Sucks now
glass mortar
oh yea
wintry solar
Is what it is
glass mortar
zac ross was in my DMs like a month ago
swearing up and down that BF also double dipped aura buffs
vivid vessel
ye i know
vivid vessel
ye i know
glass mortar
u think we wouldnt have noticed this?
glass mortar
would be insanely obvious
glass mortar
ye i know
haughty wigeon
realz does know about it tho
vivid vessel
ye well
stiff vector
crazy how they let the better version of BF be uncapped and double dip 
vivid vessel
time to get to work maybe
haughty wigeon
vivid vessel
realz knows a lot of things
haughty wigeon
yep
vivid vessel
i dont see much being done
did you know that
he has known
about the audacity bug
since day 1 basically
haughty wigeon
probably cause the dev team shifts around multiple specs
haughty wigeon
causer blizzard cant be bothered to hire more devs
frail veldt
idk if realz is hands on with rogue though anymore
haughty wigeon
for some reason
vivid vessel
ye well
stiff vector
Idk I dont think they do a lot of "shifting around" multiple specs
vivid vessel
i get that
haughty wigeon
idk if realz is hands on with rogue though anymore
real answer is yesnt
frail veldt
seems like hes at management distance
haughty wigeon
everyone is on other spec projects and reworks
stiff vector
seems a lot like they constantly "shift around" to mage/hunter/DK
haughty wigeon
they only have like
frail veldt
cuz the changes feel very "telephoned"
like I can understand the source sentiment
but the implementation is usually a miss
haughty wigeon
one big dev the mand they get shifted to whatever specs turn to get fixes
haughty wigeon
seems a lot like they constantly "shift around" to mage/hunter/DK
i dont think thats also quite true
but fuck mages
stiff vector
every single one of the few changes we get is very obviously phoned it, like its blatantly bad but they say "screw it, ship it anyway"
haughty wigeon
so ill believe it
red zinc
Why invest time into something that:
- has a low playrate
- has players that probably wont quit no matter how bad it gets since complaining is half the game to rogue players
stiff vector
I mean whats not to believe...?
wintry solar
I asked if he can spread the word and have Raise Abomination in the pve tree after it was deleted as a pvp talent. And it actually happened.
red zinc
like lets be honest
wintry solar
I like to think that was on me
stiff vector
Mage/hunter/DK havel iterally gotten constant attention this xpac
haughty wigeon
I mean whats not to believe...?
every spec says X Y Z gets all the reworks
frail veldt
every single one of the few changes we get is very obviously phoned it, like its...
I mean more like the haste change which might have been created as a "make haste valuable for outlaw" and then the implementation technically achieved that but not for the right reasons
haughty wigeon
even tho shadowpriest is the only spec that gotten multiple passes
red zinc
We aint quitting when rogue feels like ass
haughty wigeon
compared to other ones
stiff vector
I mean fucking DPS DK has been basically reworked TWICE this xpac, with iteration in between too
and mage is mage ofc, they get 300 lines of blue text every patch
haughty wigeon
its more telling how aids dps dk was
with frost being actually the first success for the spec
also we have to like consider
not ever blue line is a good one
vivid vessel
Why invest time into something that:
- has a low playrate
- has players that pro...
ok but i pay
stiff vector
brother
stiff vector
DPS DK has been OP literally the entire xpac
vivid vessel
man
haughty wigeon
like 280 of those blue lines for mages suck super aids
stiff vector
i dont really give a shit if some of the blue lines arent good ones
haughty wigeon
just because its super op in numbers
wintry solar
Mage got their rework when they were top of the meters
stiff vector
they dont even matter
haughty wigeon
doesnt mean the spec is good
stiff vector
but the spec is good lol
haughty wigeon
unholy plays like anus covered in cancerous aids
and frost also played like turbo super aids
until recently
but its okay
cause apparently
stiff vector
did it though?
haughty wigeon
they do big damage
yes
sore gameplay is turbo fucked and the rng nature of bloodbeast also sucked ass
cinder relic
My Frost dk friend hates the rework but it does nuclear damage lol
haughty wigeon
i personally think the frost dk rework is fun af
especially with everything uncoupled from obliterate
wintry solar
I love the fdk revamp
haughty wigeon
finally their st can be t uned without it shitting on everything in aoe
sounds famliiar :)
but again, its okay apparently for a spec to be designed by someone who does computing with a singular foot. as long as it does alot of damage
right?
stiff vector
it sure seems like both DPS DK specs had a lot of issues fixed this xpac, both simply QoL ones and gameplay/design ones
wintry solar
Unholy is the same
wintry solar
Almost 1:1
stiff vector
but again, its okay apparently for a spec to be designed by someone who does com...
I mean I dont recall saying anything remotely resembling this but ok
haughty wigeon
its okay 
haughty wigeon
DPS DK has been OP literally the entire xpac
.
wintry solar
If you played unholy you'd know
haughty wigeon
okay then
every line you drop implies that its okay cause its op damage wise
but w/e
frail veldt
My Frost dk friend hates the rework but it does nuclear damage lol
So is it a bad rework?
stiff vector
both DPS DK specs have been constantly receiving attention and improvement the entire xpac
haughty wigeon
and its telling how badly design both specs were and are if theyre getting constant refocus
blood also sucks balls
but hasnt even recieved attention
wintry solar
DB blood feels weird
naive river
KiR and HO close or miles apart?
haughty wigeon
like i get it, outlaw hasnt recieve attention for its clear issues (fatebound)
proper bear
Oceans
haughty wigeon
but at the same time
it has
with new killing spree
which i have to remind everyone
wintry solar
Playing db blood correctly feels like you're playing it wrong
haughty wigeon
is actually huge
wintry solar
KiR and HO close or miles apart?
haughty wigeon
the issues of outlaw mostly stems from weird itneractions with hero trees, and the hero trees in general, while also having weird bugs like the audacity bug
and the rtb shit
need i also remind the court
that the majority of the vanish bugs were fixed this expansion as well? quite recently
something i personally think would never happen
cause of how fucked stance dancing was since wotlk
red zinc
chat
vivid vessel
is actually huge
ok man
we waited 10 year for a ks rework
and they still managed to disapoint litteraly everyone
haughty wigeon
doesnt make me want to barf anymore, doesnt kill me
nah
they only disappointed you frnakly
stiff vector
we literally got the walmart version rework of KS
red zinc
i mean they did make it worse than it shouldve been
vivid vessel
its only acceptable cause its a rework from the terrible killing spree
red zinc
But i can live with it
haughty wigeon
we all agree it could be a second shorter
stiff vector
The only reason why the reworked KS isnt worse is because they literally couldnt make a worse ability than old KS
haughty wigeon
i enjoy it
vivid vessel
only one
vivid vessel
The only reason why the reworked KS isnt worse is because they literally couldnt...
real
haughty wigeon
guy enjoys it
haughty wigeon
alot of the sub and sin players dipping into it seem to enjoy it
haughty wigeon
casuals enjoy it (most important)
lone crow
whats fun being afk for 3 secs
haughty wigeon
again yall are hard to talk to
wintry solar
casuals enjoy it (most important)
Casuals enjoy stealthless outlaw too
lone crow
nono im asking u
vivid vessel
again yall are hard to talk to
look man, if i wanted to cast i would play a caster, i play outlaw for a reason
wintry solar
I'm just teasing. In my defense.
haughty wigeon
nono im asking u
looks cool
lone crow
so u dont think its interrupting the flow of outlaw at all?
haughty wigeon
doesnt make me die
doesnt make me barf
i dont think it doesnt break the flow moreso than og ks does
lime lake
Casuals enjoy stealthless outlaw too
based casuals
vivid vessel
man
covert kestrel
doesnt make me barf
Again, the lowest of bars
vivid vessel
@haughty wigeon
torpid fiber
Real talk it's actually crazy how bad old KS was
haughty wigeon
no
lone crow
okay lol but a spell that doesnt make u die should always be baseline
vivid vessel
this is a new ability
red zinc
two opposite ends of a spectrum debating is always fun
haughty wigeon
hard to imagine
naive river
doesnt make me barf
honestly sometimes i closed my eyes during old KS
haughty wigeon
outlaw or combat
haughty wigeon
without thinking of killing spree in some shape or form
stiff vector
I mean bro youre saying "be happy guys, the spec ackshually hasnt received ZERO iteration..." and used the fact they finally reworked KS into a slightly less dogshit version with blatantly obvious design flaws, but it at least it doesnt kill you. I mean are we being serious lol
wintry solar
based casuals
We should place a bet on if stealthless outlaw makes a comeback next expansion in any form.
torpid fiber
Real talk it's actually crazy how bad old KS was
How did they make a spell that kills you and also has accessibility issues and go "yeah this is fine" like what
haughty wigeon
I mean bro youre saying "be happy guys, the spec ackshually hasnt received ZERO ...
ya way to ignore all the vanish bugs being fixed too
which again
was also huge
lone crow
huh
haughty wigeon
especially for qol
vivid vessel
the spec was litteraly unplayable with these bugs and we still played with them for 3 tiers
honestly
haughty wigeon
again something thats hard to do since the tech had issues since the burning crusade
torpid fiber
Every patch outlaw gets good changes but it's always like one less good change than needed to be perfect
vivid vessel
idk how we survived that era
it shouldnt have gone past ptr
should have been fixed on ptr
haughty wigeon
multi million dollar indie company
vivid vessel
instead of dropping a spec that is barely working
haughty wigeon
what can you do
vivid vessel
idk
wintry solar
Every patch outlaw gets good changes but it's always like one less good change t...
Unholy had the same issue this patch too. Funny how that consistently happens all the time.
torpid fiber
Unholy had the same issue this patch too. Funny how that consistently happens al...
It's better than no changes but it still sucks, yeah
haughty wigeon
vivid vessel
i dont want to unsub
torpid fiber
I blame capitalism for new killing spree tilting zac
stiff vector
so thats what we get this xpac? A few vanish bugs(theres still multiple in the game btw) that have went years unfixed, and reworked KS into a slightly less shit version? Wow, youre right, im ecstatic about that. Keep in mind, they created far more new problems this xpac than theyve fixed, and all of the significant old problems still exist.
haughty wigeon
pocketed directly by some suit that likes to drink breast milk
vivid vessel
thats all im asking
haughty wigeon
unfort
vivid vessel
i pay him directly
lime lake
crowdfunded outlaw dev when
vivid vessel
out of my pcoket
hell man i will pay them twice their salary
im feeling generous
take a few days off
haughty wigeon
you have to go through blizzard HR
vivid vessel
i pay
vagrant saddle
man we need a zac youtube channel
vivid vessel
i have a youtube channel mf
haughty wigeon
and then you find one guy who has a strange cooler under his desk
vagrant saddle
this is not a youtube channel this is stream clips
haughty wigeon
corporate greed fucking over the game? no
vagrant saddle
we need you talking about the state of outlaw weekly
vivid vessel
no editing
straight up content
im like that
dont thank me
no intro
nothing
based raw content
for the content enjoyers
haughty wigeon
cant hirer more devs for all the spec, we gotta rely on one team and cycle them to every spec in groups to make illiteration and solve problems. gotta protect the companys quarterly
torpid fiber
bro edited M+ gameplay would be the worst content of all time wtf you going to leave in
vagrant saddle
goat shit
vivid vessel
type shit
haughty wigeon
scarizard is gone
vivid vessel
ye
lime lake
bro edited M+ gameplay would be the worst content of all time wtf you going to l...
you just zoom in on details
haughty wigeon
so expect no cantrips for a bit
haughty wigeon
maybe
we'll have solid trinkets
but multi million dollar indie company
would probably make more "you get x amount of secondary stats on a 2min cd" trinkets
vagrant saddle
i might never stop
yes this is what we need. 30minute youtube video about trinkets
do it zac
haughty wigeon
and call it a day
ya know
to save money
gotta make tanks and healer have a 30% negative aura on all cantrips and dps trinkets
stiff vector
I mean we would have better trinket options if the spec didnt have non-existent stat scaling
haughty wigeon
thus resulting in every trinket being boring as shit
naive river
is it still 20% haste? then just vers and crit?
wintry solar
Idk I don't listen to them
torpid fiber
I like cool trinkets they should let dps drop tank trinkets
torpid fiber
the dathea trinket was really funny tbh
haughty wigeon
new we're entering the last season of a whole expansion
with 0 interesting trinkets and 0 interesting cantrips
cause multi million dollar indie company cant be bothered
to fucking
hire more people
and undo the shit tank healer trinket/cantrip aura debuff
embelishments also shit
gofigure
desert tendon
dw zac
torpid fiber
you could probably argue that transmitter or whichever one was the Complete My Tasks trinket was interesting but idk I never played it
haughty wigeon
you could probably argue that transmitter or whichever one was the Complete My T...
that one was boring
torpid fiber
Damn
torpid fiber
yeah but like
fluid iron
@vivid vessel stop sandbaggin
lone crow
transmitter was the worst shit
haughty wigeon
the trinket that makes me kill 15% of my hp for a shit ton of stats
is interesting
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> stop sandbaggin
ye mb cuh
torpid fiber
the process in which you got stats was non-traditional
Every trinket is just damage
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> stop sandbaggin
fluid iron
its all PI
vivid vessel
ye
fluid iron
trust
mighty pivot
just lucky crits
vivid vessel
enhance is bad btw stealthi
they put enhance in like
C tier
im not even capping rn
haughty wigeon
max tier list
stiff vector
enhance down bad for raid too
haughty wigeon
reliable content
lone crow
what key
stiff vector
every key besides like eco dome and maybe DB looks like that
naive river
I was looking at the S3 outlaw guide on wowhead and it says only one point in fan the hammer. is that right?
vivid vessel
ara, i did have a bad death in this one tho
torpid fiber
I was looking at the S3 outlaw guide on wowhead and it says only one point in fa...
ya
haughty wigeon
dk gonna catch a nerf
stiff vector
its so funny that both dps dk specs been nerfed multiple times
haughty wigeon
warrior also gonna catch another nerf
fluid iron
enhance is bad btw stealthi
i did watch max's tierlist stream
haughty wigeon
maybe theyre nerf outlaw since its good at m0
vivid vessel
you are 723
haughty wigeon
maybe ill see a ret buff when raid is at farm
vivid vessel
you are scaled to max
stiff vector
somehow the nerfs just didnt effect DK anywhere near as much as our BF nerfs impacted us
vivid vessel
actually i didnt think it would make a diff @glass mortar but we were 710 ilvl before the last week
and i feel like
torpid fiber
for post launch tuning
It's going to be 80% fine and then 20% nonsense that they have to more than revert later in the season
lone crow
ive been told scaling is a myth
stiff vector
Im ngl it feels like we got worse on ptr from the 710 scaling to 723 lol
vivid vessel
numbers too low for the trash dmg profile we have nowadays
im bottom on prio, st, aoe, and im not really winning at any target count anymore btw
torpid fiber
Scaling over an expansion is a myth but scaling within a patch isn't
vivid vessel
like on live at least you have very good st, and you win like 5 to 8 target or smth
here id k
glass mortar
scaling is never a myth, scaling mattering between seasons is mostly a myth
vivid vessel
i lose every target count
glass mortar
we got zero tuning going s3 to s4 cause why would they
vivid vessel
imma show you something
glass mortar
fake season
glass mortar
we didnt get nerfed or buffed
and we were just much weaker relative to everyone else in s4
🙂
just ilvl
keen belfry
@stiff vector close
vivid vessel
when they start pulling bigger packs
vivid vessel
yeo
lone crow
wait until ppl do all to the right
vivid vessel
so imagine
torpid fiber
It's fine we'll find a new bug to abuse
vagrant saddle
It's fine we'll find a new bug to abuse
dont bug abuse or they will fix it and make it our tier set
torpid fiber
dont bug abuse or they will fix it and make it our tier set
ho bug has been a thing for like 2 years
stiff vector
<@287474341304598539> close
perfect, we shall be needing this soon 
lone crow
in s1 we at least did st lol
vivid vessel
<@194111690835623937> before 2nd boss halls
here i think he didnt proc this time, but you have a real enhance instead
haughty wigeon
dont bug abuse or they will fix it and make it our tier set
to be fair
that bug was really really really liked
keen belfry
i dont want to make DSM WA
@vivid vessel
vivid vessel
its in the rogue pack cuh
keen belfry
man.
torpid fiber
Reading is for other specs
fair oak
naive river
i kinda see why you guys liek Kir you can keep alot of rtb buffs up for a long time
gaunt phoenix
we love kir
lone crow
here i think he didnt proc this time, but you have a real enhance instead
now compare this to assa, crazy funnel crazy aoe. only sucks when pure st which is almost always avoidable
torpid fiber
All we outlaw players know how to do is drink caffeine and complain
vivid vessel
now compare this to assa, crazy funnel crazy aoe. only sucks when pure st which ...
yep :)
burst also
lone crow
ye
vivid vessel
cause we dont talk enough
how some pulls are just impossible
with outlaw
cause no burst
torpid fiber
i kinda see why you guys liek Kir you can keep alot of rtb buffs up for a long t...
Tbh I mostly like kir bc I can't get my brain to play ho properly
fluid iron
sub burst next tier tho 
wintry solar
Zac and Ross
vivid vessel
so you need
a full comp for raid buff
worse routes that works for outlaw
and you just do less overall, and have a worse damage profile
i mena that seems fair
thoughts?
torpid fiber
ho is just fucking impossible for me to play for some reason, I fuck up builders constantly somehow
vagrant saddle
S tier spec
vivid vessel
idk im prolly washed up tbf
or its ptr ms
i cant even feel ptr ms
but its prolly it
i will gain 10 mil overall on lie
lone crow
ptr ms for sure influences outlaw gameplay
naive river
ye i cant feel it
i do tell my friends i cant play this spec with any sort of lag it makes it feel awful
lone crow
for me its heavily noticable to the point i really dont enjoy playing outlaw on ptr
torpid fiber
outlaw is playable on 180ms but it's not fun
naive river
i dont want to play outlaw over 50
wintry solar
I can't believe they didn't make ship names for specs in the hero trees instead
torpid fiber
Also ms probably hurts KS a bunch if you're reacting to it at all
lone crow
but anyways, even if it does it should not make a huge diff to the point of you losing that hard in overall @vivid vessel
wintry solar
Asslaw
naive river
like if i join an oceanic group I let them know I cant and don't want to waste their time
vagrant saddle
I know this is a meme
meme is rtb is rng... real is everything else is rng
torpid fiber
like if i join an oceanic group I let them know I cant and don't want to waste t...
How do you think I feel as an oce player 
vivid vessel
I have a dawn I can't press kir on 4 buffs till first boss litteraly
The impact is craZy
lone crow
thats so bad
vivid vessel
If you hold kir too long you are pressing it between packs
So you are always forces to kir on bad buffs and hope for a good reroll
If you don't get a good reroll it spiral downward
And the opposite is true
If you get good kir you will keep the momentum for so long
Idk it feels insane to me
But maybe I'm coping
lone crow
very coinflippy ye
lone crow
how much - % is it to force kir on 3 good buffs btw
vivid vessel
It's even crazier on how the stars can allign
lone crow
i thought with losing current tset its worth it again
vivid vessel
how much - % is it to force kir on 3 good buffs btw
Thing is
lone crow
but seems like its not
vivid vessel
You play LD right
lone crow
ye
naive river
i wish the 2nd coup didn't cost cp and you could just send it for the cd reduction
lone crow
yeye
vivid vessel
Cause your next LD is so far in the pack
That pressing kir then is like
It's too late
I wish rtb was just CTO I'm ngl
vagrant saddle
bt needs to be gone tbh
lone crow
tbh i really enjoyed the high cto proc chance in sl
but ye
what can u do
what abour rerolling more aggressively, have u done that feelcrafty wise
like when u have absolute shit buffs
just burgerflip it
gaunt phoenix
talent sleight
vivid vessel
I just kinda lock whatever I can with kir
And reroll
If I don't get another reroll it's basically over
But a lot of times it saves my pull
But ye if it doesn't you just
stiff vector
tbh if I get bad first roll, im just KIR first BS CTO proc idc
vivid vessel
You will just low roll for a long time
The momentum feels insane
Especially when the packs are short
Like it feels so rng on Dawnbreaker
stiff vector
I aint sitting there with like BT+GM and hoping my next LD isnt dogshit
vivid vessel
Cause the packs are short and there is a lot of downtime
gaunt phoenix
tbh if I get bad first roll, im just KIR first BS CTO proc idc
ya that's fine
lone crow
ye
gaunt phoenix
Just kir-ing at any 3 buffs seems to hardly affect sim at all
stiff vector
good for CD specs tho
vivid vessel
On a second pack of a dungeon my damage will always be more consistent
But first pack is mega rng
Cause you come with 0 momentum
lone crow
how much -% is playing sleight over ld?
stiff vector
its mega rng and its not even like..the good kind of rng. Its rng between barely beating the tank(or not being the tank depending on the tank and dungeon) if your first pull is big, or getting good rng and doing s2 dmg and still being gapped by good specs
vivid vessel
or out of combat
I mean I wish that was a thing since I think pausing everything for outlaw feels right on point but it's a diff thing anywya
vivid vessel
how much -% is playing sleight over ld?
Infinite
It'd like 5/10 I don't remember
Ld is massive
lone crow
bruh
vivid vessel
Also fuck anyone that tells me outlaw isn't rng
vagrant saddle
we got spoiled with 4set we forgot how important ld is
wintry solar
Vanish is already loaded. Might as well add pausing rtb buffs to it.
stiff vector
what bozo would ever say outlaw isnt rng
glass mortar
i mean outlaws variance in short pulls is pretty huge right
vivid vessel
what bozo would ever say outlaw isnt rng
glass mortar
didnt we sim 2 minutes once and it was like 3X as bad
wintry solar
Do 40 minutes too
vagrant saddle
Do 40 minutes too
with or without bathroom break?
wintry solar
You can hold it
vivid vessel
Ok on it
pliant wind
ty
stiff vector
yep
pliant wind
literally useless
wintry solar
They can swap HH and blind talent and it'll be fine
stiff vector
got a half assed rework(literally) and barely had it touched since. Crazy this is what our half reworked tree looks like(obv theres been a few irrelevant shuffles since)
torpid fiber
Our tree is bad but it could be way worse
stiff vector
I mean GSW isnt even very good tho
lone crow
Combine gs and GSW, make a new capstone that is s3 DF tier
ye like, reintroducing s3 tset as talent is such a non brainer im so confused they havent done that yet
stiff vector
and it would incentivize you to push PS even more, which just directly conflicts with what trickster wants you to do
vagrant saddle
how to fix kir rn
keen belfry
https://wago.io/NWV4O1aek @stiff vector i think im done with sin for now, i wouldnt say its 100% ready for fatebound yet but oh well
frank finch
wintry solar
Finally some variety
Sleight of Hand was the variety
finite arch
Sleight of Hand was the variety
Thats true
stiff vector
ye like, reintroducing s3 tset as talent is such a non brainer im so confused th...
surely in midnight they do this surely they fix any of the significant design issues with the spec and new problems they created this xpac
stiff vector
https://wago.io/NWV4O1aek <@287474341304598539> i think im done with sin for now...
thats fine I can fix it for fatebound if need be ty
finite arch
keen belfry
the coin tracker in there might be old
stiff vector
ye I can just toss in the fatebound one I have from outlaw
wintry solar
Blade rush is fine when we actually have energy to think about
naive river
FB ghostly strike like 100% uptime with the tier set?
pliant wind
would be fun or atleast interesting if we could cdr cold blood to think something different
but nope
vagrant saddle
cold blood shouldnt exist anymore imo