outlaw

[blissful zinc]

All i care is dps

[lofty pike]

Guess the singletarget is lower?^^

[keen belfry]

There’s no way to actually know yet brother. Few fights look very good for outlaw few fights look very good for other specs

All 3 specs if you play at a solid level will absolutely do enough dmg to get into a mythic raid

[vivid vessel]

We don't know about raid yet

[blissful zinc]

I cant find any outlaw kir on mythic gallywix which is near top5 dps

[vivid vessel]

Like we actually don't

At all

You mean this season

?

[keen belfry]

What does this have to do with next tier?

[blissful zinc]

What i ment is LOU

[lofty pike]

My take is: If you are not in a world 500 guild, noone is doing Sim dps, so Just play what suits you better i guess

[vivid vessel]

It's alright mostly will do similar st as the other spec on gally rn

[blissful zinc]

Zac can you make a vid with the new raid on mythic when its live?

[keen belfry]

Just want to make sure you know the season ends tomorrow right? LOU logs are irrelevant now

[gaunt phoenix]

serious M raiders should probably not one trick outlaw for all of CE

Very few people do that here

[daring oxide]

solo

it is the way

you either be faithful to the art of outlaw

[blissful zinc]

Im just trying to figure out if i should stay loyal to outlaw for next season or switch to assasin or sub for better dps in M+ and Raids.

[daring oxide]

or you are the betrayer of all

[daring oxide]

stay loyal

[blissful zinc]

But my dps on single target is beyond awful

[hasty warren]

I belive in outlaw supremacy

[daring oxide]

can you imagine if you swap to assa/sub and i still beat you as outlaw???

how could you take that

[keen belfry]

You can figure that out during the season, there’s no way to accurately know yet

[blissful zinc]

How was it till now

On s2

[daring oxide]

outlaw was great this tier

[keen belfry]

If I had to guess assa is going to be the “best” s3 m+ rogue spec

[blissful zinc]

Ive seen on PTR 50m dps on assasin

[keen belfry]

But I could be very wrong 🙂

[daring oxide]

ya but only a handful of actual assa players can pull those numbers right

majority of them are going to noodle

right @proven ocean

also they might get some lovely tuning tooo

🙂

we can only pray for their demise

🙏

[keen belfry]

Vai

[daring oxide]

hello

[keen belfry]

Will I have fun playing law this season in m+

[daring oxide]

I think you will

do you love outlaw?

[keen belfry]

That’s all I care about

Yes

[daring oxide]

do you love being teleported around for memes or do you love outlaw for the speedy blasts?

[keen belfry]

Speedy blasts memes

[daring oxide]

then outlaw is meta

in our hearts

and minds

[keen belfry]

I can raid as any spec raid is chill

[daring oxide]

and in raids 🙂

[keen belfry]

But m+ I need outlaw 🙂

[daring oxide]

yes

honestly outlaw is in a good enough spot that unless you are pushing the absolute cutting edge keys of max level, outlaw is going to be more than fine and viable for keys

and its super fun

so its a win

[keen belfry]

I will just do title keys

Not r1

[daring oxide]

@vivid vessel obviously is another absolute beast

what key level you need for title keys?

[keen belfry]

20s is what I was doing in na

[daring oxide]

ah ok

i may actually give it a go this tier after raiding is done

with the old KS gone

i'd be more motivated tbh

i'm afraid to pug though

[keen belfry]

This was first tier. I met a lot of people and found a staticish phys comp that we are gonna blast keys

[blissful zinc]

I am super competitive and i see that outlaw is just falling behind in dps even after perfect rotation

[keen belfry]

I mostly pugged until the very end

[proven ocean]

we wont get nerfed because we're weak in raid

maybe sin buffs

soon

[daring oxide]

thats peak honestly, finding new friends and teams through key pushing

[keen belfry]

This is not true 🙂 if you play it perfect you will do great damage

[daring oxide]

you'll gap people if you play well

[proven ocean]

u can play outlaw perfectly?

interesting

[blissful zinc]

For a minute i sure can

[keen belfry]

Yes legit met so many people I want to play with and will, and a lot of people I don’t want to play with!

[proven ocean]

for a minute

i don't think so

[blissful zinc]

For the same minute assa is getting 30m dps

While i get 13m

[daring oxide]

the dont want to play with part scares me, im proper chill but some people get so mad over some things

[keen belfry]

You can’t compare burst uncapped dps specs to outlaw over a minute @blissful zinc

[daring oxide]

i mean if YOU are pulling 30m dps overall as assa then you should go assa ye?

[crisp condor]

Just keep repeating "Marathon not a sprint" to yourself for a while key

[daring oxide]

if you do more numbers as assa, just play assa

i play outlaw for fun

and even more fun when the pug assa is half my dps!

[proven ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1255110288081162311/1318256041112109106/catnum-cat-nom.gif

[blissful zinc]

I never played anything other than outlaw

[proven ocean]

i did 40m dps on assa

on live

[daring oxide]

then why are you even thinking about it brother?!

[keen belfry]

The art of being unbothered in m+ is OP and needs a nerf

[daring oxide]

i need to learn the art of being unbothered from you

please teach me wise sensei

[blissful zinc]

Because i want to be more competitive

[keen belfry]

Blast classical music when playing

Don’t read chat

Say gg nt

[daring oxide]

beat @vivid vessel first then change to assa once you've maxed out competitiveness

how about that for a challenge

[proven ocean]

dps race me on sin im available everyday

otka

[daring oxide]

which ones you like listening to?

[blissful zinc]

Its not just that tank is playing huge role.

[daring oxide]

your name says you are 'the Outlaw Man' and you ask for a sin dps race???

[keen belfry]

I usually find a song I know and like and open its “song radio” on Spotify

[proven ocean]

mee outlaw too me toualw too

[daring oxide]

ahh, song radio is that feature where it plays similar songs to the original?

[keen belfry]

Yes

[daring oxide]

ok

[proven ocean]

ok

[daring oxide]

i've always wondered

thank you ,3

[keen belfry]

Good and finding new music

[daring oxide]

❤️

[proven ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1255110288081162311/1318256041112109106/catnum-cat-nom.gif

[daring oxide]

i'll give it a go

[proven ocean]

❤️

@wemo

@mewo

[daring oxide]

@proven ocean we will dps race again 11.2

[proven ocean]

@frail veldt

[keen belfry]

Zeross what did you ask Ryker yesterday

[proven ocean]

[keen belfry]

What are you how?

[proven ocean]

you are how?

gnawa

?

[daring oxide]

so whats your verdict, are you going to stay aboard the Golden Outlaw Ship, or jump overboard into the depths of the gloomy assa hivemind?

@keen belfry btw solo showed me a hilarious gif of you yesterday

i added it to my awang pile

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1393269994623860887/nah.gif

[keen belfry]

Hahah

[daring oxide]

this had me weak

like i was crying laughing

[keen belfry]

It’s happened twice to me!! Let me show u another one

So much random bs happened to me this tier

[daring oxide]

pleas show i will add to my collections

[random stirrup]

Your mage gif of flamestriking the roof got shared in our raid discord

[keen belfry]

It’s funny cuz it’s from pov of diff person

[daring oxide]

omg pls share

[random stirrup]

It was months ago impossible to find

[keen belfry]

@daring oxide

[daring oxide]

hahahaaaaaaaaa

holyyyyyy

that is incredible

[hybrid crown]

That's so janky I've had that happen too

[keen belfry]

@daring oxide here is other moment i got beamed

[hybrid crown]

The flame jets like turn to look at you as if they are about to detect you in stealth

[daring oxide]

hahhaa

this perspective is amazing

like a drone footage of awang death

[vivid vessel]

Ok guys

I was thinking about resilient

[daring oxide]

these are all so good

[vivid vessel]

And how I think it's bad that you can get score from resilient

And I thought of a solution

What if

[keen belfry]

mhm i agree and disagree but go on

[vivid vessel]

Your key is resilient but only for one try for the guys that didn't time the key

So say I put my resi key up on lfg

I can take anyone

If we time it first time everyone get points

If we deplete the guys that don't have resi of this key are now locking the key to their resi level

[keen belfry]

explain last part more

[daring oxide]

is that resil thing how people were cheating their scores or somet?

[keen belfry]

i understand the time it first time

[keen belfry]

basically like, high end groups everyone knows everyone. a group of players would have resi and just add their friend in as a 5th and spam that key getting them IO

[vivid vessel]

Well if I put my resil key in the hole, but I depleted it once with that guy in the group that don't have that resi level (or key timed level I think it's the same) it can't start unless a lower level

[keen belfry]

this could be decent yeah

[vivid vessel]

I don't think that's even the worse part of resi to me

[keen belfry]

i get what ur cooking

[vivid vessel]

The worse part of resi to me is how if you are behind in score

[random obsidian]

as someone who pushed for title with little playtime, and got closer each season, the resilient system kinda made that absolutly unachievable so it'd be nice if they somehow nerfed something about them

[vivid vessel]

You only play resi keys

So it's so bad

You just enter resil keys and spam that key for hours

Idk

[random obsidian]

seems like anyone with infinite time can bruteforce higher keys

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[random obsidian]

so it became even more of a time invested diff

[vivid vessel]

Mostly I don't like how when it's resi people don't play the same

Like they don't try the key at all

[keen belfry]

at a certain point u cant but i understand what ur syaying

[vivid vessel]

They don't invest the same focus

[random obsidian]

no stakes

[vivid vessel]

Ye

So I have an example right

My team

We can't time 21s anymore

Litteraly impossible

Too hard

[daring oxide]

as in spam it until you time it?

[keen belfry]

i just HATE when i watch someone brick a key 20 times in a row, time the 21st attempt and get the same IO as me when i tried it non resi once or twice

[daring oxide]

sorry for derp questions im just a weekly noob

[keen belfry]

feels like cheating

[vivid vessel]

We went and timed 22 ml yesterday after depleting the 21 ml for like 5 attempts

[vivid vessel]

Yep

[daring oxide]

ah ok ty

interesting

[vivid vessel]

Exactly

But I'm even more talking from the standpoint of the guy himself trying to time the key

Doing a resil key isn't the same

[random obsidian]

yeh you right, but lets say you have someone who's pretty inconsistent as you said, with like a 5% success rate, he just invests infinite time into a resi key and most likely gets it done in a few days

[keen belfry]

i hear resi brain is a real thingyeah

[vivid vessel]

You have no satisfaction timing a resil key

And you have resul brain rot the whole time

[daring oxide]

i think resil seems like a system to help people reduce the time they have to spend practising specific keys of that level without losing huge time to lowering the key after failing, but I think your suggestion that everyone in the group should have eligibility for that resil key level is a must, and not allow for taking in lower level people (for boosting their score)?

[vivid vessel]

Like to me resil is good to get your keys back up that you already timed

[random stirrup]

When we walked into keys last season with 5 grim batol 16s ready to go we bricked 3 of them in like 15 minutes

Ur just not locked in

[daring oxide]

so I think Resil for you zac and your team is good

but not good when its exploited to boost a random 5th to jump 5 key levels

[random obsidian]

so the fix would be to introduce stakes again right?

[keen belfry]

i agree, this applies to MOST keys. i watched certain streams thinking these guys cuold get 100 attempts and not time the key. around the 20 level you actuall you just have to play pretty damn good

[vivid vessel]

I think it's just not good to gain score

[keen belfry]

yeah resi keys are super good for static groups learning stuff right?

[vivid vessel]

You should get score from a real one attempt key

[daring oxide]

yeah

[keen belfry]

like you guys wouldnt have timed that 21psf as early as u did without inting a 20 PSF for awhile right?

and i think thats good practice

[daring oxide]

i remember in the past you fail a key very punishing because now that key is lower level and could change into a diff key when u time it later

[vivid vessel]

Well resil is really good to practice routes also ye

[random obsidian]

yeh you right, it's not as easy as some people would say

[vivid vessel]

But mostly ye I just don't think resil gaining io is good

[keen belfry]

but if someone here says the idea of "only should be resi if everyone in the key is resi too" i hate that idea cuz resi keys REALLY help player activity in LFG

[daring oxide]

but with resil you can actually practice and keep going until you get ti down which is a nice system which is respectful to your time as a group pushing (but exploited for boosting score of noobs)

[random obsidian]

do you guys think the people getting "boosted" in title range is much higher than previous seasons?

[vivid vessel]

That wouldn't work cause then you can't pug back up your key which defeat the purpose of resil

[vivid vessel]

Ye

Idc about that tho

[daring oxide]

i guess, then maybe it should have a certain level threshold? like you must be within 1-2 levels of that resil key?

[vivid vessel]

Non issue for me

[daring oxide]

1-2 levels behind

[vivid vessel]

It's not why I think resil should change

[daring oxide]

so like if u have a 18 resil level, you can be eligible to join a 20 resil?

but not a huge jump like 15 to 20

[vivid vessel]

You are always -1 that doesn't change anything

[random obsidian]

is it a non issue because you're unaffected by that

or for another reason

[vivid vessel]

Nah not really, I think boosting in wow doesn't affect people like it does in league

[keen belfry]

yeah this reason is good too, man i just hated the feeling of having a "dead" key. resi is awesome

[vivid vessel]

It's mostly non consequential

Other than making title harder to get but tbf I think title is too easy compared to the pvp equivalent so it's fair

[random obsidian]

mmmh but in wow doesnt it take away the title from other "legit" players?

[keen belfry]

could be decent, i dont think much would change though. most people spamming resi key are already one level behind the key they are doing

[random obsidian]

well its just a title all in all

[daring oxide]

also saves you so much time too and don't have to worry about practising a high key with no unnecessary punishments

[random obsidian]

but still feels like a bummer

[vivid vessel]

It does but no one cares tho or

The only impact it has is lowering spots in tilte

[random stirrup]

Blizzard does not care one bit about the legitimacy of title

[keen belfry]

this can turn into a different conversation of basically "title/IO doesnt really matter"

[vivid vessel]

But again I think m+ title is too easy compared to pvp

So Im fine with that

[random obsidian]

ok ok i got it

[random stirrup]

Season 1 flask/raid buff abusers, post season io counting to title, etc all left in

[random obsidian]

makes sense i guess

[random stirrup]

[vivid vessel]

Outlaw bug abusers ..

[random stirrup]

so true

[random obsidian]

still from my pov it's a disappointment seeing the title get away when i used to get closer to it each season

was a nice thing to aim for

[vivid vessel]

Don't think that's boosting tho

[keen belfry]

title is still very very achievable for rando LFG pug players

[vivid vessel]

I think that's just resil making it more grindable

[random obsidian]

yeh i don't really know what it is

probly resil

[fluid iron]

cant beleive this guy is not banned for snd bug abusing 24/7 smh blizzurd

[random obsidian]

but resil also makes boosting easier

[vivid vessel]

Frrre

[random obsidian]

so ig its just a consequence of resil being a thing

[long barn]

I really don’t think boosters are carrying people in 20s

[keen belfry]

do you guys think score cutoff goes up 9 more points today?

[random stirrup]

[keen belfry]

heh

[long barn]

Like the people being carried have to perform

Right?

[keen belfry]

well yes, but they are being "carried"

[long barn]

How so?

[keen belfry]

they still have to press buttons and not spam die

[hasty warren]

is grappling bug a feature now ?

[vivid vessel]

But ye it's kinda my point anyway, you shouldn't gain point by spamming resil, and so my fix for that is just to lock the key for the non resil player after one deplete (one or a few more idk doesn't matter)

[keen belfry]

if you went and did a 20 with 4 other resil 21 players youd think "wow this is easy" that is what wow carrying is

[vivid vessel]

We dropped guys because they weren't doing enough dps

[fluid iron]

"perform" is a strong word

[vivid vessel]

Like sometimes it's just not worth to bother

[long barn]

Boosting on my opinion for title is just paying to have more time in IRL vs like grinding

[fluid iron]

its more like

[long barn]

I dunno

[vivid vessel]

If the guy is doing tank damage I cba

[fluid iron]

dont be completely deadweight

[keen belfry]

yeah

[long barn]

I’m torn on how I feel about out it

[keen belfry]

about what

[long barn]

Boosting in wow

[vivid vessel]

We dropped a warrior in a flood 20 boost just cause he was doing tank dps

[keen belfry]

scores buyer confirmed?

[daring oxide]

i mean getting boosted in hc content is fine right, cos its trivial content

[vivid vessel]

But we boosted plenty of better players that just do their thing, don't die etc

[daring oxide]

getting booosted in a 20 key is of a complete different calibre

[fluid iron]

imo boosting in wow is mostly fine

[keen belfry]

yeah

if u got the gold

go for it

[fluid iron]

only thing i draw the line at is piloting

[vivid vessel]

Same cause it doesn't affect others the way it does in other games

[keen belfry]

i got sent a list of buyers last night, a whole ass excel spreadsheet. m+ community is HILARIOUS

[daring oxide]

how much did this guy pay?

[long barn]

Hell ya I’ve paid for some keys. Like 10s and shit to catch up. I travel for work. But I don’t think 20s and 21s are being “boosted”

[fluid iron]

its also like impossible to hide the fact that you got boosted

its so easy to check

[random obsidian]

how would that work? whats locked exactly

[daring oxide]

it can be if the team boosting you handles everything from interrupts, cc rotations, etc and you just come along and do decent damage and dont die

[keen belfry]

there are people in this chat right now that are talking about boosting others. i think you just think of boosting differently, boosting is different in wow than other games

[fluid iron]

like in lost ark its actually an issue, cuz you get limited titles from it and you have no way of vetting people like you do in wow through logs etc

[vivid vessel]

idk we just refunded him

[long barn]

Even in 20s?

[vivid vessel]

yep

[daring oxide]

how much do people play for a 20 boost like 1mil gold?

[long barn]

I thought after a while you have to do all that shit

Like there’s not enough interrupts

[vivid vessel]

there is a website

let me think if i can find it

[random stirrup]

The resil key shame site?

[keen belfry]

the stuff you have to do in a boosted 20 key vs a first time 20 group is probably half the responsibility. that is what being carried is. if everyone played the way the guy who is getting boosted, the key would wipe on the first pull

[daring oxide]

sure of course, your getting boosted because you skip the process of learning the key and route at that level, where as the team has grinded and perfected it so they can carry you through it as long as you are a decent passenger and not just a corpse

its about responsibility

your only responsibility is to do damage and not die

[keen belfry]

all the booster has to do is press dmg buttons and live and get infinite tries at the key, vai is cooking rn

thats what being boosted in wow is

its not afk collect reward

[vivid vessel]

https://hocus-p0cus.github.io/ @keen belfry

[keen belfry]

how to use

[random stirrup]

this website is so funny

[daring oxide]

hahah

[random stirrup]

seeing people with all their last 2 key levels just resilient 4 players

[long barn]

I agree with everything you said. But I don’t agree with this. I’ve done 20s and like you have to have an assignment. No way they could do everything for you. How about we meet in middle. Good dps, don’t die, and int your target and use aoe in when called.

[daring oxide]

ya i get that but what im saying is that its actually possible, its being done right now

[long barn]

Ok I agree the resil has changed boosting for sure

[daring oxide]

people are getting boosted in 20s

[vivid vessel]

input a name and realm name lol

[keen belfry]

do u guys think title gains 9 points today

[vivid vessel]

so, the key leader still has its resil 20 key, but since he just depleted it with this rogue in his group, the key is now locked to 19 max until the rogue leave the group

[long barn]

If they are boosting 20s which I’m in shock right now then 20 lol

It will go to like 3850

[vivid vessel]

you can boost 21s

[long barn]

What no.

[vivid vessel]

[long barn]

Wow

[vivid vessel]

easy ones ye

with more time prolly hard ones aswell

[long barn]

Ok. DFC and ML maybe

[vivid vessel]

like i think we can boost 21 cinder

[random obsidian]

what about the other players in the group? how does the system know the rogue is the issue but not the 3 other players

[vivid vessel]

if we are good

[random obsidian]

maybe im just dumb i didnt really get it

[vivid vessel]

mage with 20 resil get a rogue pug, they try the key, deplete
mage still has his 20 resil key
but now he cant start it in 20 anymore until the rogue leave the grp since the rogue now has a lock for this specific key from this mage
same for any other non 20 resil player that were in the key attempt, if they are resil 20 haver they dont lock the key obviously

[random obsidian]

oh so the key gets locked by non resil players

[vivid vessel]

if they depleted that specific key from that specoific player once ye

[random obsidian]

wouldnt it be simpler to just remove the infinite attempts from resi tho? like, you get only 2 or 3, and that would reintroduce stakes into the system

[vivid vessel]

like you still have one attempt

[vivid vessel]

No cause then you penalize the guy that has earned resil

And he will be scared of pugging his key again

I think one great thing of resil is allowing people that have resil to freely pug their key without worry

They earned that fair and square

[random obsidian]

[weary cloak]

assuming they didnt pay for their own boosts

[vivid vessel]

I think one bad thing of resil is the guy that just comes in a resil key and try it 20 times

[keen belfry]

dwilkz was just listing his 21 resi key in lfg, one try per character, reform every group

kinda mimicking zac idea

[long barn]

I will say with the resil, I’ve seen more community’s pop up. Reminds me of vanilla wow. People actually getting together.

[keen belfry]

yes

resi is very good for LFG activity

[vivid vessel]

yep exactly

thats how you fix resil brainrot

[long barn]

So maybe a balance between that and the boosters

[vivid vessel]

without removing the good part of resil

to me

[normal forge]

sorry for this noob question of mine, but, how do you define the target that you will prioritize? Highest hp, is that all?

[vivid vessel]

or dangerous mob

[random obsidian]

do you think there's a way to make your fix work but also not fuck resil players who play with their friends

[vivid vessel]

sometimes you might target a bad caster

[random obsidian]

like lets say, a 18resil guy playing with his 17non resi friends

[vivid vessel]

or like say in flood you have these architect guys

when they are on top of the ladder thing

you target that ladder thing

[long barn]

I vote less attempts per day or something

[vivid vessel]

cause otherwise the guy on top if imune to damage

[weary cloak]

95% of the player base just target the biggest looking mob. Blizzard know this and every now and then troll you you with a lethal little bugger next to a big bugger

[long barn]

Like a lockout

[desert tendon]

zac will you please get your name to be yellow

i m bored now

[normal forge]

i see, very thoutfull answer, thanks zac

[vivid vessel]

well if they deplete the 18 they can still go 17

why should the guy be allowed to spam 18s with his friends

just cause they are friend

[random obsidian]

id say its more that the system incentivizes people to make more friends, even tho it's kind of op

[long barn]

I have enjoyed using my resil keys for my friend groups

[random obsidian]

otherwise people would just go back to never networking

[long barn]

They are very thankful

Feels good

[violet bison]

The solution that you’re proposing is that the people who havent done the resil key get locked out of the resil level but the keyholder doesnt?

[keen belfry]

are we increasing KS CD check for vanish conditions @vivid vessel surely its not 20s anymore right

[vivid vessel]

They get locked from that specific key from mister mage xx, after depleting it once ye

They don't get locked to all 19 flood

[long barn]

Makes sense

[vivid vessel]

Just this specific 19 flood from asunax

[long barn]

It should be like 3 attempts

1 I think might be too aft

[vivid vessel]

Asunax can only put it in 18 now with these guys in his grp

[long barn]

Aggressive

[vivid vessel]

His key is still a 19 tjo

[vivid vessel]

Ye kinda

[keen belfry]

7800 vers on the raid necklace

[vivid vessel]

maybe idk thats just tuning

[long barn]

True

[vivid vessel]

i think the one attempt thing is imprtant for like

you dont play the same at all

[violet bison]

And the net benefit you get from it would be that you dont have people spamming keys they shouldnt be in?

[vivid vessel]

when its one attempt

[desert tendon]

i think resil is a good thing

i think the usage of resil by the community is pissshit low

[long barn]

Zac how are we on PTR in terms of M+

[desert tendon]

and dogshit

[desert tendon]

a tank, that s what you are

[vivid vessel]

Yes + when you time a key that is resilient you have no satisfaction + when you are in a resil key you naturally play way worse

[long barn]

Are you trolling

[desert tendon]

a bit but also not really

still target capped

still no burst

[vivid vessel]

better than s1, worse than s2, not particularly good at anything

[desert tendon]

still no damage buffs

[vivid vessel]

decent tho

[long barn]

Yea I know. The target cap gives me nightmares

[desert tendon]

needs a full comp to do things

and people to play arround your way of doing damage

outlaw's life

[vivid vessel]

ye you have to do worse routes when ytou play with an outalw rogue

and worse comps

so like

if you are also doing worse damage

[violet bison]

I can see that. My only question is wouldnt that lead to the issue that if my group of friends failed the key we now have to push a different key and hope we get the key we’re trying to do? or is it kind of like a do a different key and you get your tries restored kinda thing?

[keen belfry]

no one else wants the sigil of the cosmic brownie trinket or whatever its called?

thats sick we just get to yoink it

[vivid vessel]

Ok so

My solution here

Is specifically to remove the fact you can gain io from resil keys basically

Which is I think bad overall

I think resil are great to push back up keys you already timed, or try cooll new stuffs or share your key for free

But it shouldn't be something that you use primarily for io

so yes your group is fucked in this case

you cant just spam a resil key for your friend

[keen grove]

Would people then lie that their key isn't resilient to get people to push it back up that are looking to gain rating from it?

[vivid vessel]

no you need to read the entire solution

my system would work for that

[vivid vessel]

and obv once "depleted" you can still do the level lower if you want to

but yes you cant boost your friend trough resil keys which is kidna the point

[willow portal]

i take out his check in the luxthos wa when using kir right?

[keen belfry]

no clue what that is

im assuming its a rtb check wa

[violet bison]

Do you think that would that make people want to play less or more as a whole? The idea of the euphoric success of a key/preventing boosting friends is that worth possibly people playing less overall?

Bc unless my perspective is cooked here the only real downside is the possibility of that right?

[willow portal]

its just logic to glow rtb button and i used the reroll less than 5 on HO build

[keen belfry]

if you are KIR you dont reroll 3/4 buffs so yes

[vivid vessel]

Idk I'm kinda noticing that resil keys also burn out people, im unsure if my system would reduce keys being played much, in the end the guy with it's resil key, since it's not depleting, can still put it all he want, he will just have to remake a group if they deplete

I don't think it would lower engagement

If anything I'm quite convinced resil keys are just not as enjoyable to play and get score from

[sudden fulcrum]

I do not enjoy “progging” the same key for hours and that seems to be what resil keys created

[violet bison]

I get what you mean

[vivid vessel]

As a guy that get resil brainrot quite often

[vivid vessel]

Yep

[willow portal]

idk i think resil is just straight improvement

[violet bison]

Definitely smashing your head against the wall is kinda rough but wouldnt you do that the same if your key depleted, it would just be more long term?

[willow portal]

this

[keen belfry]

but at the same time, imagine being a solo player with resi 19s. if your 19 bricks (very easy to do) you now have an 18 and u have to time 2 keys before you get an IO key (now imagine that 18 bricks). this is why i think resi was made

[vivid vessel]

also my system isnt to prevent people boosting their friends, thats kinda the least of my worries honestly,
i think gaining io from resil keys is just not good for the gaem, not as satysfying for the guy that got it, create a gap with people that got normal score and people that didnt
artificially inflate score but from a bad reason
and more importantly, resil keys arent fun

[vivid vessel]

No

People play differently in resil

If you played this season

You should know that

[mental beacon]

This tbh

[sudden fulcrum]

Agreed that part definitely sucks

[mental beacon]

They dont lock in

[violet bison]

I did and I agree that people play differently for sure

[keen belfry]

people just dont list their keys in this case, and if they do they only invite people who are overqualified for that key

[mental beacon]

Now they list their keys with the text ”note tip”

[vivid vessel]

Ye resil key selling is also weird and will always be a thing

My solution fixes it tho !

[sudden fulcrum]

This needs to be bannable

[vivid vessel]

ye and that part of resil is good, thats why it should be kept

[keen belfry]

ur fix seems pretty good

what do u think about groups that time a resi key in like, 2 tries

[vivid vessel]

I mean maybe resil can still keep it's resilience for a few tries in my solution still

It just

Tuning

Decide what you want

The fondamental change is still here so

I think one or more try doesn't change anything

You. Are only locked in on the try that matters

Idk

It's weird

[keen belfry]

agreed

[vivid vessel]

Like

I think I timed 22 dfc in 2 try

22 ml in 2 try

But the amount of 21 resilndfc I depleted

and 21 ml resil

not real

[torpid fiber]

yeah u get the adrenaline when the try matters

[vivid vessel]

yep

its insane how much more fun i have when im in a key that matters

your brain just turn on

idk

you are a super human suddnetly

when you were brainrotting in resil for 3 hours before that

[torpid fiber]

I play lots of games where you just throw yourself at a wall until it breaks (although good practice tools help make progress feel less frustrating and wow doesn't have those), but yeah the adrenaline is huge

but also sometimes the adrenaline fucks you up

ig wow doesn't need insanely tight timings though, so nerve control is way less brutal to be bad at

[vivid vessel]

bro when you are on the edge of depleting

we timed the 22 ml wtih like 10s left

that shit feels good man

you are shaking for the last minute

[torpid fiber]

i play geometry dash that game is spending 5+ hours learning a 1 minute level and the shaking is insane

no one should get into geometry dash btw game is not time respectful

[keen belfry]

where are tier sims again for us

[lofty sand]

Holy real

The dopamin

[torpid fiber]

I always die at like 95%+ to the dumbest shit in gd it's so tilting

but yeah the dopamine when you beat a hard gd level is unmatched

[hybrid crown]

I tried it and it felt like the movement of the lil square didn't quite match the music

[torpid fiber]

no other game where I've gone to sleep and woken up and still had dopamine

[torpid fiber]

phone issue tbh

game is awkward on phone

[hybrid crown]

It didn't feel as much like a rhythm game as it did a platformer

Ahh that's probably it

I play osu

[torpid fiber]

it's like a mix btwn the 2

I tend to consider it more a rhythm game bc I play a lot of platformers as well and it feels closer to rhythm games than platformers

But tbh it's also kinda neither

Practice mode is broken but it also means levels are balanced around you having spend 10 minutes practising every 5s segment at minimum

[lofty sand]

I mean rythm wise gd levels not always the best

[torpid fiber]

ye

but also u can't move to the sides in classic mode so it's not really a platformer when there's only 1 button and one speed

[lofty sand]

Yeah

[torpid fiber]

Mostly it's a tool for turning time into dopamine in a way that's really high cost but also really high reward

and then when you're good enough you can play easy levels for fun and it rocks

[willow portal]

is KIR supposed to feel like way less fun than HO

and my AR uptime droped by 10% to 75 just from swapping

and i feel slower too

[keen belfry]

its a more punishing playstyle

its the "harder" one

you must be combo point efficient

if you had 75% uptime you are messing up quite a bit

!commonerrors

[ornate heath]

Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.

[hybrid crown]

When you figure KIR out it's a lot of fun esp in raid

I don't like messing with KIR in m+ esp since I do mostly pug keys

[willow portal]

is kir pressing ss way more too?

[hybrid crown]

Ss and pistol shot

No ambush

[willow portal]

no but i mean, i got ambush and ss macro for ho on the same button but i feel like on KIR i have to manually build up cp point by point a lot more often

[gaunt phoenix]

You mostly ss and ps based on your cps, broadside, opp stacks, and unseen blade being ready

The more involved builder prio is part of the difficulty

[willow portal]

are any of the weakauras in the faq good for beginners?

[daring oxide]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[daring oxide]

Zac

[willow portal]

luxthos feels nice ´with the glows and stuff

[daring oxide]

or Devlin

i recommend either

[keen belfry]

awang too

good guy

[cedar kernel]

fair

[daring oxide]

link awang was

[covert kestrel]

!awang

fuck

[daring oxide]

!awang should make moroes post an awang gif

[cedar kernel]

i think the reason why KIR need more builder is highly combined to the BS, since theres RNG so

bc KIR need more CP effiency

SS is 2 in basic cps(double strike at 4 iirc), but ambush is 3 basic cps (when i double will be 6) so theres the diff

[willow portal]

its also weird to use bf for cp now

[covert kestrel]

you mean fucking incredible

[cedar kernel]

i think thats a good change

[keen belfry]

!awang

[cedar kernel]

for kir

[keen belfry]

https://wago.io/NWV4O1aek

[covert kestrel]

deft my beloved

[cedar kernel]

bc one hit than full cp in aoe 6+ target

[keen belfry]

deft is so goated man

[cedar kernel]

💀 we have a dark time when ER just gone and theres no new deft

[keen belfry]

BTE BTE BF BTE AR BTE BTE DEFT

mhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[cedar kernel]

but i dont rly remember if we have this dark time, i am not good at memory

[covert kestrel]

new deft as in once they fixed the bug?

[stiff vector]

I can confirm awangs is one of the only rogue packs I think is good and like. I use my own for outlaw but I use awangs for sub and I was instantly doing casualaddict dmg on sub

[vivid vessel]

wtf

[keen belfry]

get shit on zac

[stiff vector]

It’s ok Zac I like urs too

[inland acorn]

Copyright stirke him Zac !

[stiff vector]

Shut up awang yours is like 50% stolen from Zac

[cedar kernel]

zac one is pro but i am not pro enough to use it

fr

[stiff vector]

[keen belfry]

dont tell chat that

[stiff vector]

[keen belfry]

but yes i did learn how to make WAs just asking zac random shit

[cedar kernel]

🕵️

[hardy vault]

i'm still considering making my own ui

but using atrocity is just so comfy

don't have to fix shit myself

[keen belfry]

i think there is great benefit to learning how to make actual WA packs

[frail veldt]

Hello zeross

[cedar kernel]

does blizz cancal the plan of banning WA and bigwig?

[hardy vault]

nope

they will

just hasnt been announced when exactly

[frail veldt]

No

[keen belfry]

they will ban certain WAs, not WA in general

[frail veldt]

Y'all are fried

They will not ban was

[cedar kernel]

i just cant imagine how to make good one with the art

[stiff vector]

It’s ok I’ve stolen some settings and scripts from Zac’s plater too

[hardy vault]

they will ban WAs, just not ur standard class wa for tracking ur own cds

[frail veldt]

No

[hardy vault]

the combat ones tho

[cedar kernel]

like the classic style is easy but i prefer some simple style with just no border

[frail veldt]

They will not lol

They don't even have a method for doing so

[keen belfry]

hmm maybe i do this too, his plater is good

[frail veldt]

They are going to design around WAs as ion has said in interviews

They want to change the game so that was are less valuable

And that they would "lose a war against was"

Can people show evidence where they keep hearing they're "banning" was

[frail veldt]

Cuz the last time this was talked about with ion max and dratnos interview they never said this

[hardy vault]

this is literally a core features most WAs use

[frail veldt]

Provide context

[keen belfry]

didnt they mention something about combat WAs?

[hardy vault]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/no-more-tracking-cooldowns-of-party-in-future-game-director-interview-with-pc-376979

[daring oxide]

so you cant track other people's cds?

[frail veldt]

Lolol this one is so funny

[inland acorn]

[daring oxide]

but you can still track your own?

[frail veldt]

Yeah so go read the interview

[stiff vector]

Yeah idk I think them trying to remove api access from addons/WAs/plater is one of the worst ideas ever and could legit kill the game for a lot of ppl for no real good reason

[cedar kernel]

i think this is somekind of "tracking the container buff"?

[frail veldt]

PC gamer fucking changed his words so hard

this article gets linked every time

if you read the article from pcgamer

they make bolt claims

and dont quote a single instance of ion saying they are actually removing that functionality

only that

[keen belfry]

isnt sin going to blast tomorrow

[frail veldt]

which is what I said

they want to make it so that you dont NEED a wa

and theyre going to replace that functionality on their end

[keen belfry]

i want to play most OP spec for reclear during prepatch that seems most fun

[frail veldt]

like

[sweet badge]

WW might be good

[frail veldt]

PC gamer did a fucking HORRIBLE job

they made a sensational clickbait fucking article

0/10 journalism

[inland acorn]

You just described

99% of their articles

[hardy vault]

aight i got ragebaited then

[frail veldt]

yeah

pc gamer is intentionally misleading people here

and its annoying

[cedar kernel]

like youtuber in China saying that WA going to be banned but as far as i know is replace

[keen belfry]

WW is just the first line of this screenshot, they just get 13% dmg

[frail veldt]

that youtuber is wrong

no one knows yet first of all

because blizzard has not made an official statement

[cedar kernel]

i mean the kinds of vedio maker

[inland acorn]

they'll ban WA but only for you

[frail veldt]

so anyone saying they know for sure WAs will be banned is lying

[sweet badge]

Which screenshot? Did I miss it?

[cedar kernel]

making a 1 mins vedio said “we are going doomed"

[frail veldt]

but from all the interviews I've heard, Ion's stance seems to be that of designing the game to not incentivize WAs as much

lower their value inherently

[sweet badge]

It's just that WW tier set sucks, so they should be strong baseline

[frail veldt]

by offering substitutes in the default blizzard UI

[vivid vessel]

big wigs devs

[frail veldt]

see where did they get their info from!?

I have yet to see this "upcoming addon lockdown"

is this just a giant rumor or am I missing information

[keen belfry]

didnmt post here mb

[cedar kernel]

we need such kind of buff

[keen belfry]

they are going to fuck up LOU for the lastg week

thats kinda lit

[sweet badge]

Sin should also get big value from tier

[keen belfry]

im just speaking about prepatch recclear

[stiff vector]

Ain’t no way they’re taking away my plater

[keen belfry]

i want to destroy gallywix

[cedar kernel]

i havent got the belt

bc i stop playing at may💀

idk if i could get into next seasons keys at the first day

[sweet badge]

Yeah that's what I mean. Classes with a shitty tier set should be strong in prepatch.

[keen belfry]

sins tier set is cool

[keen belfry]

making it 130 sepc

[hardy vault]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/warcraft-development-team-statement-to-wowuidevs-on-future-addon-changes-377142

thats a statement from blizz to the addon devs

saying they're gonna ship they're improved base ui at the same time as addon restrictions

[inland acorn]

there's 0 chance

[hardy vault]

makes people think its gonna be a full delete

[frail veldt]

yeah this sounds consistent with his general sentiment

[inland acorn]

they ship them both at the same time

[frail veldt]

????

I dont see this jump

[hardy vault]

he goal is for our base UI to provide players with a good portion of the most important combat information addons currently provide. Most of this functionality will ship at the same time as these addon restrictions

he literally states it

[frail veldt]

yes

[hardy vault]

no?

[frail veldt]

what??

bro

where do you read "were removing 3rd party addons"

im so confused

just "addon restrictions"?

thats so so so so so vague

[inland acorn]

bro

can you like

not leave the last bit out

literally

omitting last 3 words

[hardy vault]

it says if not sooner

[inland acorn]

[hardy vault]

yeah but that doesnt change the fact that addons are gonna be restricted

at some point

[sudden fulcrum]

reading comprehension at an all time low

[inland acorn]

Imagine a scenario

Where you change your base ui and do some push on addons

[sweet badge]

Well, it seems vague enough/too vague for some, which leaves them unmotivated to continue working on their addons

[inland acorn]

That makes 0 sense because now you just fucked almost everybody in the game

[hybrid crown]

Man some classes are gonna suck ass to play without good name plates

[inland acorn]

What will happen is probably:

• UI changes come out month or so before so people can test, feedback and get used to it
• Addon changes starts to get pushed

[keen belfry]

is unius popo?

[daring oxide]

@vivid vessel if blizzard kills your WAs I will never forgive them

[keen belfry]

someone check his aliases

[hardy vault]

no i'm unius only

[daring oxide]

wait did Popo get banned again???

[hardy vault]

everywhere

[daring oxide]

@wintry solar

[keen belfry]

sounds like something popo would say

[keen belfry]

sure popo

[frail veldt]

"Reading through your feedback so far it is clear that there's a lot of confusion about the timing, goals and nature of these changes. While our communication on these changes so far has been intended more for the press and general player base, we also understand that it would greatly benefit you as addon developers to have a little more clarity. We also hope this clarity better informs your feedback going forward. Please understand that this project is in heavy development right now, so we won't be able to give specific technical details just yet (exactly which things will be locked down, etc). We'll be releasing this more detailed information in the future though, well before this project goes live, so stay tuned for those details in the coming months. Although we haven't finalized a target release date for these changes, what we can say is that we'll be giving many months of advance notice before we flip the switch. We want to allow addon devs as much time as possible to test the changes, report issues and provide feedback. We will be announcing the landing place for these changes well ahead of time and taking steps to maximize the amount of hands-on feedback from addon developers before the changes go live.,"

[hardy vault]

and i'm actually just trying to understand how some people can be hopeful that blizz is not gonna fuck this up

[daring oxide]

I am a man of faith and prayer

not cope

just hope

[frail veldt]

I dont see how people are already so doomer when blizzrad is going at this from a very very delicate perspective

[daring oxide]

just bring your palms together and pray for a good outcome

[frail veldt]

this is probably the most tactful with changes ive ever seen blizzard be

theyre being communicative well before implementation

theyre opening the community up for feedback

and they arent hard committing to any explicit changes

[covert kestrel]

i mean them saying there will be a "switch flipped" means that there likely will be some drastic changes, requiring months of forewarning. not saying theyre gonna nuke everything but that terminology makes me think its going to be pretty big

[frail veldt]

and yet people still think theyre "BANNING WAS!"

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-doom-doom-death-battle-vs-debate-gif-27228804

[inland acorn]

Listen man

You can think what you want of Blizzard

And their changes

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-doom-doom-death-battle-vs-debate-gif-27228804

[keen belfry]

this is what my sin pack looks like rn @stiff vector you want?

[inland acorn]

At the end of the day

[frail veldt]

I still dont see that as the case

[inland acorn]

They want to make money

If they fuck up the game, and people leave because of that

[frail veldt]

From reading all of this it looks like their first step is still primarily raid encounters

[inland acorn]

That's not good for business

[frail veldt]

and is definitely not combat/rotation addons

[daring oxide]

why do i see Assa shit on those bars dirty, delete!

[covert kestrel]

i dont think like personal WAs are going to be fucked at all, i think thats fine. more the cd of party members, and raid was are going to be changed hard

[frail veldt]

I think were a year+ out from personal WAs being impacted

[keen belfry]

i might reclear tomorrow as assa those patch notes are crfazy i want to be OP spec in reclear tomorrow

[frail veldt]

the party member cds honestly i think they will back out

unless they deliver a working replacement

[mighty pivot]

How dare blizzard take away my anime cat girl WAs

[frail veldt]

in which case

cool

we have a working replacement

who cares lol

[daring oxide]

can i join you for reclear, my guild's been on a break for weeks and I'm so boredddddddddddd

[vivid vessel]

so at some point they kinda clarified (not really) with more lawyers words

but ye

nothing is like

[keen belfry]

NA guild come

[vivid vessel]

they didnt direclty said we are locking everything donw

[hardy vault]

its just i main healer and i'm really scared of what my frames will have to look like if blizz really cracks down hard on tracking stuff

[daring oxide]

ok transferring my rogue to NA

[keen belfry]

ok ty

[vivid vessel]

they have said they will impact some of these tho

[keen belfry]

u have a spot

[vivid vessel]

so

[covert kestrel]

NANANANAN

[frail veldt]

yeah its kinda mixed, Ion's sentiment and the quotes from the warcraft devs is def a little different

ion seems more on the relaxed side

[stiff vector]

Da fuq why does it look half finished lol

[frail veldt]

the devs seem to more imply that there will be "some" restrictions but definitely not how much or even that they are directly targeting addons

[inland acorn]

Start worrying, when we will learn what the changes will be

[frail veldt]

more that they will make functionality break for certain addons

[inland acorn]

Rather than worrying about something you have no idea how will work or what will be done

[frail veldt]

they dont have an avenue to "ban" this addon but not that addon

[vivid vessel]

ye but ion is clueeless tho

[frail veldt]

I dont think thats even possible for them

[keen belfry]

the way i make my WAs for other specs is just copy over my outlaw class and start from there

[vivid vessel]

no its not

[frail veldt]

They can make the API different

[hardy vault]

i mean they just delete certain hooks for addons to take the info no?

[languid coral]

@vivid vessel What is the cd on abilities on nameplates called in weak auras im sure its from your package

[frail veldt]

but they cant just ban addons called "WeakAruas"

like

thats just nonsense

[hardy vault]

nobody is talking about them banning the entire weakauras addon mate

[keen belfry]

well Mewo, WeakAruas doesnt exist

[frail veldt]

LITERALLY thats how we started this discussion

[hardy vault]

jsut that certain functionality of it will be killed

[covert kestrel]

my blizzard WA crackdown agent staring at my combo point meter which each point is a toe of Xalatath

[inland acorn]

not killed

Replaced by default UI

[stiff vector]

O..well is it finished? I’ll take it if it’s complete for sure, I’m using some ugly like whispyr edit of aefnar rn for assa

[cinder relic]

I wonder if this level of fervour existed whenever they nerfed weakauras back in WOD for being too strong

[inland acorn]

The only thing they might kill is some degen shit

[daring oxide]

What did they do back then?

[cinder relic]

Weakauras in wod were so fucking broken

[frail veldt]

this isnt even the first time theyve done this lol private auras have been around

[cinder relic]

I dont think you can conceptulize how OP they were lmao

[daring oxide]

Ion said he'll rework outlaw to be more basic so we dont need Zac WAs to play it

[frail veldt]

more op than now?

[keen belfry]

when i finish it ill be up on my page again, i should just do that today

[hardy vault]

and i hate what we have to do to circumvent private auras too

[frail veldt]

see thats the thing

[cinder relic]

Like literally more than twice as effective

[daring oxide]

What kind of things were they capable of before they nerfed them?

[cinder relic]

Wod weakauras were absolutely insane

[daring oxide]

OH

right

you mean the radar shit

[stiff vector]

[daring oxide]

they had for archimonde

etc

[cinder relic]

Radar, lines

[inland acorn]

Couldn't you in WOD make absolutely anything and everything in WA ?

[daring oxide]

ahhhh yes

i remember seeing these in streams lol

[inland acorn]

To basically afk target dummy boss

[frail veldt]

you cant prevent players from getting around private weak auras for encounters

[vivid vessel]

bigwigs

[frail veldt]

and ion mentioned how the guilds did this

and instead they want to design the encounters so that there isnt a benefit to do these things

[daring oxide]

but we have similar things today right like those maps (neltharion comes to mind) etc

[stiff vector]

Ye back then WAs we’re legit broken they had OP functionality

[languid coral]

thanks bro

[cinder relic]

https://youtu.be/Vx6ipbVOWvY?si=AHviaI8QEuri2DKJ&t=114 I timestamped this for example

[daring oxide]

but obviously not on the scale of that archimonde lines stuff hahaha

[frail veldt]

lol wtf is radar in wow

[daring oxide]

Thanks

[frail veldt]

perf

[cinder relic]

Having a scuffed map, vs an actually, fully functional radar are two very different things

[willow portal]

the faq says kir is harder to gear for, what stats would i need and is that more an early game statement?

[inland acorn]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[cinder relic]

Like look at this

Imagine for example, denathrius lines, or sylvanas lines

where this shit would just pop up

[inland acorn]

you need haste breakpoint, after that sim yourself, but probably vers/crit

[daring oxide]

yeah this is exactly what i remembered

[willow portal]

is more than 20% haste a problem then?

[daring oxide]

thats so wild haha

[inland acorn]

It's not a problem, but it's not great

If it's like 21%

[covert kestrel]

not problem but haste value falls off a cliff after

[frail veldt]

its just a waste

[inland acorn]

If it's like 30% haste

then you have a problem

[frail veldt]

LOL

thats wild

[cinder relic]

They gutted weakauras ability to scrape information like this

[willow portal]

i am on 22

[cinder relic]

Idk if people were going as insane about this removal compared to now, but it seems similar

[daring oxide]

I heard they had something pretty OP already made for Fractilus in 11.2?

something that just fully solves how to play tetris for you

[frail veldt]

so youre saying this isnt the firs ttime

[cinder relic]

The whole private aura thing, and these stupid macros that basically bypass it is like

The entire point

[frail veldt]

were people thinking they were gona "ban" was back then too? lol

[cinder relic]

I literally don't remember

[covert kestrel]

just as you gear in the new season keep using top gear to find your value, stuff will change as you change your gear

[cinder relic]

Yeah, fractillis on PTR was actually a joke with a weakaura

[hardy vault]

we played with some WA in testing and yes it just tells you where to stand (world markers) and solved the thing i think

[daring oxide]

ya this is what i had in mind

[cinder relic]

I mean this would be the 3rd? time they've worked on nerfing weakauras

First was wod, 2nd was private auras

and now were here

[daring oxide]

i didnt see it in action but someone mentioned fractilus is faceroll thanks to the WA

was it northern sky who made it?

can't remember

[hardy vault]

think liquid

[daring oxide]

ah ok

GG

free boss 😄

and its the 3rd last boss as well

[hardy vault]

yeah it was liquid, had to download the aura updater and shit from wowup

[daring oxide]

but

honestly nexus king mythic last phase

fucking scares me man

you cant let those urchin balls touch each other

its gonna be so fun to prog

[gloomy coral]

Not mentioning wrath and AVR is a disgrace in this discussion

[daring oxide]

What happened?

[vivid vessel]

btw there is a world where nothing changes but everything changes, so basically they can lock down combat log and just do what they did with private aura but more advanced,
as in, i can hoook onto a buff, and skin it, resize it, move it and shit, but thats it, i cant do anything else, it would essentially keep wa alive and nothing would change really

[frail veldt]

When I read this I do not hear "were going to war" with addons

[hardy vault]

i think the biggest problem why so many people are dooming rn is the fact that they announced somethings gonna happen but not what exactly and ofc people are worrying that they're gonna have to give up a lot of quality of life improvements over the base ui in a near future @frail veldt

[frail veldt]

yeah but try to identify their sentiment

I think that image I just posted has good info in it

[gloomy coral]

AVR was a weakaura-esque addon that painted 3d graphics live, meaning you could see where aoe and spells were going in real time on the floor.

[cinder relic]

Maybe people should shut the fuck up and be positive for once in thier life

[frail veldt]

"This project is about doing everything we can to shrink that gap, by building up the baseline functionality of the default UI, while also reining in the "optimal problem-solving" capabilities of the addon API."

[cinder relic]

Thats what I think

[frail veldt]

yeah I actually agree with blizzard here

I think this is a good project

and addons are definitely way too "required" to play wow

[gloomy coral]

https://www.wowace.com/projects/avr-encounters

[daring oxide]

ok yeah that just sounds straight up like hacking lol

that defo deserved to die

[cinder relic]

This is not the first time blizzard has had to nerf weakauras, and it likely wont be the last

[frail veldt]

again I feel like blizzard is being VERY open and transparent about their goals here

im on blizzards side in this one and I def dont think were gona just wake up one morning and all of our addons will be broken

like that doesnt feel even remotely like what their goal is

[daring oxide]

i mean if they let us keep class/personal WAs so we have full control over our own UI and accessibility when it comes to information we need as we play our class I'm happy

[gloomy coral]

On a general notion Im often supportive of blizzards ideas, but their execution historically has been piss poor.

[frail veldt]

nothing theyve said has made me think otherwise

[vivid vessel]

ok but what about what i sent mewo @frail veldt

it was litteraly

yes we will break a lot of things

no?

[hardy vault]

i also agree with addons feeling mandatory, but not trusting blizz to execute it properly

like thats where the dooming comes from i think

[daring oxide]

I want to keep the option to add cat sounds when I press KS or ace procs

that is very QOL and important to me

[gloomy coral]

Valid

[quaint delta]

i can tell you the number of addons i use today is less than i did 5 years ago, specifically because of bliz adding in similar functionality

[frail veldt]

@vivid vessel in the thing you sent it literally says "Addons provide a huge amount of value to our players, and we have no intention of banning them or anything like that."

"we are aiming to cause the LEAST amount of collateral damage possible to addons when these changes go live"

[gloomy coral]

The number of addons I use today is less than I did 5 years ago, because I didnt want to reconfigure 100 addons whenever my UI got corrupt

[frail veldt]

I dont see where it says "yes we will break a lot of things"

am I reading the wrong thing?

[sweet badge]

Blizzard stuff gets better with time usually, but I cba playing with shit tier stuff for an expansion or two.

[daring oxide]

thats the beauty of WAs i guess, just need one addon to do whatever you need

or something like Elvui

[cinder relic]

no but if you assume everything will be terrible then its going to be bad

[hardy vault]

elvui, bigwigs, like 3 wa packs, omnicd and details

[daring oxide]

dont need bigwigs anymore right

liquid or NS WA packs same thing

[quaint delta]

elvui is like 17 addons in one

[daring oxide]

or dungeon WAs

[hardy vault]

i think some WA timers work off of bigwigs timers

[frail veldt]

Blizzard: "Were not trying to take away your addons, were trying to improve the game for everyone so you dont need addons to compete"
Players: "So youre banning all of our addons"
Blizzard: "????"

[daring oxide]

oh i see

so WA packs basically hijack other addons to function?

[frail veldt]

like this is criminal levels of misunderstanding that people are doing

[hardy vault]

ya

[daring oxide]

i guess so

makes it easier to do calls that way

[frail veldt]

the mental gymnastics to doom here is crazy

[gloomy coral]

Hello, I guess you are new here

[daring oxide]

tbh im just turning a blind eye to it because if they took everything away, i'll still play but my expectation is that if they do this, they are going to do things such as reworking outlaw so we don't currently need WAs to play it effectively, so ultimately it should be fine?

[red zinc]

in all fairness they did put out one stupid ass article where they didnt explain it well at all

bunch of stuff afterwards that came out that made it way more nuanced

[frail veldt]

no

PC gamer made up quotes

and people believed it

[gloomy coral]

Alternative quotes

[daring oxide]

welcome to internet

[desert tendon]

Gamer pc

[mighty pivot]

come Midnight's release John BlizZard will literally enter your house and steal your choccy milk 🤔 🏄‍♀️ 🏄‍♂️

[gloomy coral]

Its not made up