wouldnt take action in any meaningful way
#outlaw
craggy barn
the only thing in the EULA about account sharing i can find is this
idk if physical piloting counts
like ur not sharing info, just getting on that computer
torpid fiber
i think that's Sharing The Account With Anyone
craggy barn
shrug
lime lake
plus like whatever the letter of the law is blizzard can enforce it however they want
frail veldt
the only thing in the EULA about account sharing i can find is this
so if you remote desktop into the boosters pc
and log into your account
and they play it
its within tos
lol
I think blizzard intentionally bakes some ambiguity into their rules
torpid fiber
definitely
lime lake
ye they all do
so that if you get banned you cant go "well it says x and i only did y(which is x but just slightly different)"
vivid vessel
Ok can I just say that I think boosting for gold should be allowed in wow ?
Or is that a wild take
frail veldt
Ok can I just say that I think boosting for gold should be allowed in wow ?
its a moderately hot take
frank finch
china cant compete now
lime lake
yeah i mean idc if people are boosting for gold
as long as i dont perma have to see ads for it
frail veldt
I mean do you think gold boosting makes the game better?
vivid vessel
its a moderately hot take
Idk the cost of raiding and doing m+ is so enormous
lime lake
i dont think it influences me in any way
frail veldt
if youre speaking objectively and not for personal benefit
frail veldt
Idk how you would do it without boosting existing
well the playing field would be level
vivid vessel
All high end content
frail veldt
so it wouldnt relaly matter would it
frail veldt
instead of boosting for gold
torpid fiber
blizzard would have to nerf consumable costs a ton
vivid vessel
How do you think normal guilds are going to make money
vivid vessel
High end guilds will pay an army to farm gold with professions
frail veldt
to make gold for the guild
frail veldt
yes just now normal players dont sell boosts
vivid vessel
Like how is my guild going to do that
frail veldt
I know plenty of friends personally in different guilds who do CE but dont sell boosts
vivid vessel
yes just now normal players dont sell boosts
Everyone from r1 to r1000 boost so
vivid vessel
And how
frail veldt
ofc
vivid vessel
If you wanna spend your life doing professions sur
frail veldt
boosting is the most lucrative
torpid fiber
this feels kinda like tipping arguments ngl
frail veldt
I really dont think it would destroy the game quite in the way youre saying
lofty sand
Yeah but because techically because every1 is at the studio playing if there account is logged in from a different location then you can tell
torpid fiber
"tipping is good because otherwise tipped staff would make fuckall money" type beat
frail veldt
Yeah but because techically because every1 is at the studio playing if there acc...
well it could be logged in at the studio
being played by someone else
lime lake
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCsEEwRU0hg
vivid vessel
"tipping is good because otherwise tipped staff would make fuckall money" type b...
Well blizzard ain't paying me for doing m+ or raid so, but they ask a lot of money
frail veldt
yeah im linking it cuz I hadnt seen it befor ehaha
frail veldt
I remember when max was talking about he controversy of echo using the rep bug
lime lake
because like
torpid fiber
Well blizzard ain't paying me for doing m+ or raid so, but they ask a lot of mon...
yeah this is the point
the world would be better if boosting didn't exist and raid/m+ weren't so crazy expensive
lofty sand
Well in that case yeah, but that would mean they have standbyers farm XD guilds wold do that?
frail veldt
he was also mentioning acc sharing
lime lake
it definitely would help the issue of splits
willow portal
is this the correct text for charged crystal?
vivid vessel
yeah this is the point
the world would be better if boosting didn't exist *and* ...
I mean sure
frail veldt
Well blizzard ain't paying me for doing m+ or raid so, but they ask a lot of mon...
but like I didnt do a single boost and I played a lot of m+
frail veldt
I bought like one token for the season and just did a little bit of pressions here and there
sure if you want to push top 0.01% keys its gona be harder when gold isnt an infinite resource
but you really gona take the stance that a small niche case like that is worth the impact that boostin has on the rest of the game?
willow portal
charged crystal or crit chain for dungeons?
frail veldt
cuz I feel like boosting as a whoel definitely negativley impacts wow
craggy barn
crit chain
frail veldt
you run into more bad playres with false credentials
you get less players trying to legitimately earn achievements that they can just buy instead
lofty sand
I mean for raid u can tell is some1 is boosted, Just by logs is enough
frail veldt
all to support the r1-1000 raiders repair and consumable bills?
I really dont thikn thats a worthy tradeoff
stuck sparrow
I know plenty of friends personally in different guilds who do CE but dont sell ...
I mean alot of lower end guilds 1/3 their dps roster is the same quality as buyers.
No flame
frail veldt
I mean alot of lower end guilds 1/3 their dps roster is the same quality as buye...
sure I agree with that
vivid vessel
but you really gona take the stance that a small niche case like that is worth t...
I think boosting has close to 0 impact on wow
lime lake
I mean alot of lower end guilds 1/3 their dps roster is the same quality as buye...
wtf why call me out like this
vivid vessel
In raid it's litteraly irrelevant
lofty sand
In raid it is
vivid vessel
And for m+ most people that get boosted don't play the game
stuck sparrow
sometimes you get a trial that honestly feels like a buyer
vivid vessel
Or it's super easy to know they are boostee
frail veldt
I think any amount of boosting hurts the prestige of all the achivements
and discourages people from chasing those achievements
stuck sparrow
raidnboosted people are super obvious
vivid vessel
Ok well
vast frost
not to be toxic but caring about achievement prestige is a bit silly
lofty sand
No guild will Pick up a guy with 3 ce with gray or Green logs, also if u look into its clear his boosted
stuck sparrow
since logs exist
lime lake
i uh
vivid vessel
I don't think I care about achievements ngl
vast frost
think you should go for such things for personal gratification
lime lake
dont think ive ever heard of someone say "well i'd go for ce but people can just buy it so why bother"
frail veldt
I don't think I care about achievements ngl
yeah but you play a very different game from 99% of the population
vast frost
if u personally get enterprising or w/e this season
who cares about jimmy who was boosted for it
stuck sparrow
why but title if people know you suck
craggy barn
imma say it
vast frost
u still earned it
craggy barn
zac bought his r1
lime lake
zac bought his r1
true
lofty sand
Like a top 500 guild will wont Pick up a boosted guy, then whocares
willow portal
boosting is just work in wow, and idk why people want to do that
lime lake
why else is he defending boosting so hard
stuck sparrow
@lashga
willow portal
the payment isnt great either
willow portal
some guild mades did a +12 world tour boost for 180k each yesterday. Thats like less than 3€ per hour when calculated in tokens
willow portal
CE sale gold is decent
true because only few can and do sell that
vivid vessel
the payment isnt great either
I boosted a 21 dfc this weekend, took me like 1 h top, got 3 milli out of it
frail veldt
damn they payed 12mil for it?
willow portal
out of time?
frail veldt
thats insane
vivid vessel
damn they payed 12mil for it?
Ye
frail veldt
12mil for one key
vivid vessel
out of time?
No lol
stuck sparrow
half those “boosters” i confused for buyers
frail veldt
thats hundreds of dollars
vivid vessel
In time
stuck sparrow
absolute animals
frail veldt
fuck
willow portal
how do you boost a 21 intime
frail veldt
thats so stupid
willow portal
wtf
frail veldt
I mean they must have played
lime lake
frail veldt
right?
vivid vessel
I mean they play lol
frail veldt
they didnt just afk
willow portal
but the buyer surely has to play
vivid vessel
They aren't afk
frail veldt
yeah
stuck sparrow
nah mewo you know the most wild gold
vivid vessel
Ye
stuck sparrow
r1 selfplays
lofty sand
Buyer pays for a team not a booost
vivid vessel
And the buyers have to be decent
frail veldt
nah mewo you know the most wild gold
bro pvp
stuck sparrow
or rather rmt
willow portal
ok so he payed for skilled players and he himself had to work too
craggy barn
buyers for r1 keys are actually ok
azure vortex
Was buyer decent
willow portal
weird
willow portal
paying 12mio for doing work
frail veldt
its comical
stuck sparrow
Mewo you ever hear how
craggy barn
they just buy keys to be able to do them
vivid vessel
ok so he payed for skilled players and he himself had to work too
Ye that's how high keys boost work
frail veldt
back in SL the gold boosts that my guild was selling for rbgs
stuck sparrow
avizura’s team pays the checkpvp guy
stuck sparrow
to hide their toons
vivid vessel
At this level the people you boost are better than most people that play this game
craggy barn
like the pug market for high keys is non existent, and "boosting" at that level is prety much just making sure ur guaranteed able to do those keys
frail veldt
I did not know about this
vivid vessel
Which is actually funny
stuck sparrow
eu r1
azure vortex
How do you get that much gold
stuck sparrow
xd
frail veldt
should have used a vpn
craggy barn
buying pvp boosts is unhinged
frail veldt
buying pvp boosts is unhinged
is it any less unhinged than pve boosts?
craggy barn
i think its more unhinged since its directly competitive instead of indirectly like pve is
frail veldt
i think its more unhinged since its directly competitive instead of indirectly l...
yeah fair but in pvp you can lose rating
stuck sparrow
eu teams have more variety
frail veldt
so like
craggy barn
like r1 pve boosts are buying access to those keys that u are still skilled at being able to do
haughty wigeon
i should probably get underpin?? done before tuesday should it
frail veldt
I guess the title counts but having a r1 title playing at 2k and losing is fucking embarassing
frail veldt
like r1 pve boosts are buying access to those keys that u are still skilled at b...
eeeh arguably
like in zacs group you could do pretty measly dps probably and still time it for r1 title level
stuck sparrow
although eu also has freaks like this
frail veldt
although eu also has freaks like this
is this a real comp rn?
stuck sparrow
that was df
craggy barn
like id say buying 3k io is similar to buying glad title
frail veldt
ah
lofty sand
Yeah but you need decent dps and u cannot die on cd. So u can do that key
craggy barn
both unhinged
frail veldt
like id say buying 3k io is similar to buying glad title
I think glad is harder to buy
lofty sand
Its Just u bought the teams time
willow portal
like id say buying 3k io is similar to buying glad title
from my standpoint 3k io is near free while glad is unachievable
frail veldt
and 2400 in some seasons is actually pretty hard
frail veldt
im not even remotely surprised
cheese comp 101
fuck both of those specs
genuinely
frail veldt
disgusting
craggy barn
is glad buying a carry service or nah
stuck sparrow
if you buy selfplay not a pilot
craggy barn
yes
frail veldt
r1 glad is a pilot
craggy barn
yea thats unhinged
stuck sparrow
They also explicitly state
frail veldt
2400+ 50 wins is a commonly bought non pilot boost
frail veldt
yeup
cuz r1 glad is just genuinely hard
theres like a very small handful of playres who could "guarantee" you r1 glad
stuck sparrow
pretty sure r1 pilot was
frail veldt
and they have to be in a season that has a favorable comp for them
frail veldt
I bet
stuck sparrow
some wild shit
stuck sparrow
yeah
frail veldt
and if you get caught
boosting
you get banned
from awc
so most of htem dont want to risk it
stuck sparrow
nolifer hasnt played retail in years
hes just existed selling pilots
he was a big tourney mage
Eu can get real bad
the russians with like 10+ characters
frail veldt
the craziest thing from pvp in recent years was the kick scripting
I cant believe how long that apparently went on
before blizzard discovered it
craggy barn
that shits funny
frail veldt
it was YEARS
stuck sparrow
i mean pretry sure in wod
frail veldt
and it took until DF
stuck sparrow
it was a joke that any feral lock team
frail veldt
to actually discover it
stuck sparrow
had a kickbot installed
frail veldt
but it wasnt even a bot
it was built into the macro system
to essentially "check if casting"
so that you could spam a button
and you could never be fake casted
stuck sparrow
theres memes of how nessper would sap bug
because he had sap macroed to everything
frail veldt
he literally does
I know him personally hes in the friend group I pvped with when I rejoined wow
interesting character
stuck sparrow
he seems an alright guy
frail veldt
he is
frail veldt
for sure
craggy barn
i wonder if theres a region class population graph out there
blissful zinc
How is outlaw kir compared to other rogue specs during mythic raids?
frail veldt
yeah
I mean axtin is NA
but he doenst have a main hunter he plays with afaik
NA has a good cupid
thats it
frail veldt
yeah
stuck sparrow
They multiclass much less
stuck sparrow
When you compare to eu tourney players like fuseton who play like
5-6 classes at r1
frail veldt
I think EU is more willing to meta swap
stuck sparrow
Yeah
frail veldt
NA likes to just play their main comp
and hope for the best
pika didnt swap off rogue much until DF
frail veldt
lol exactly
frail veldt
yeah whaaz's team did a lil mixup
vivid vessel
Mewoooo
frail veldt
sup bro
vivid vessel
You need a boost lil bro
stuck sparrow
anytime they tried
frail veldt
lol
vivid vessel
Wtf
frail veldt
as in tuesday
stuck sparrow
I feel eu just plays more rogue
frail veldt
well probabl ywont log in til the weekend
stuck sparrow
in general
craggy barn
its so funny how class locked the top NA teams can be
frail veldt
I dont have enough gold to pay you though @vivid vessel
I buy one token per season
and try to survive on that
and just use r2 consumes the whole time
stuck sparrow
I dont tell people
vivid vessel
r2 ..
jolly geyser
I use r2 hp pots
lime lake
based
stuck sparrow
Yeah i mean it gets the job done
rest is healers job
flask you can be cheap by hoping you proc a fleeting alchemical chaos
jolly geyser
Never use runes unless its the vendor one at end of exp
stuck sparrow
when you craft first of the day
stuck sparrow
Never use runes unless its the vendor one at end of exp
df infinite aug rune still works
frail veldt
I dont have time to do boosts
stuck sparrow
frail veldt
and I dont want to give blizz any more money
jolly geyser
Heh
frail veldt
so I just play cheap
stuck sparrow
im kind of surprised they havent disabled the df inf rune
they usually disable those
craggy barn
we paid good money for taht
stuck sparrow
We paid good for all of them
hasnt stopped blizz in the past
I probably wouldnt have augment runed this tier if the weekly vending machine ones didnt exist
craggy barn
rune acquisition is so dog shit
frail veldt
Oh I def didn't get the rune this season lol
torpid fiber
they usually disable those
do they? i'm pretty sure my legion one worked in bfa
frail veldt
Shit do I have to go back and farm this seasons rep to get the inf rune?
That's gonna suck
jolly geyser
No rune this season
stuck sparrow
and sl one i think
torpid fiber
they just increase stats so much that it's minimal bonus don't they
jolly geyser
Just the slot machine
frail veldt
Oh okay
frail veldt
Nice okay
stuck sparrow
iirc
lime lake
ye the dh boss drops ones that dont get removed on death
frail veldt
I've never used a rune this entire xpac hahahaha
lime lake
and infinite comes from rep
jolly geyser
Same
lime lake
i use the df infinite one and ah the vending machine runes
frail veldt
Oh idk if I even have that
lime lake
lmao
frail veldt
What rep do you need
frail veldt
I never maxed it
stuck sparrow
Didnt log in for the free max bug
frail veldt
Same
lime lake
they had to make sure i could get ce
craggy barn
ye
stuck sparrow
all this
and i still watched people
walk into mines
and wipe the raid
I got my mount first kill
so we chilling
lime lake
we only killed gally 3 times and no mount for me
gg
its kinda ugly tho so i dont actually mind
people who actually liked it got it
teal garnet
nothing will beat Anurelos
lime lake
ye it looks awesome
lime lake
well yeah the tbc drakes are sick too if they had more than 13 pixels
stuck sparrow
well yeah the tbc drakes are sick too if they had more than 13 pixels
*2
jovial sedge
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
torpid fiber
its a tbc glad drake
the mythic one specifically looks baller as fuck
stuck sparrow
Yeah what i meant
torpid fiber
the normal version of it is kinda w/e imo
stuck sparrow
i’ve gotten both ce mounts first kill so far
torpid fiber
but damn if the mythic version doesn't go insane
stuck sparrow
wonder if we go 3 for 3
jolly geyser
voidy drake
stuck sparrow
torpid fiber
I don't even raid heroic so I'm 100% on the "wait until TWW is legacy content" train unfortunately
teal garnet
wonder if we go 3 for 3
same, I didnt get Sark but ive gotten every one since Ansurek 1st try
jolly geyser
I bought the hc ansurek one
stuck sparrow
I still dont hace voti skin
teal garnet
ansurek looks liek shit tho tbh
jolly geyser
glad I did,saw it like 3 times after
stuck sparrow
got asmr from normal week 3
jolly geyser
I got it on 1 kill
stuck sparrow
yeah i sold the mythic ansurek
torpid fiber
the only raid mount I have is the antorus charhounds one which I got on my first kill in my first guild's weekly normal casual night the first time i raided 
jolly geyser
abyss worm
stuck sparrow
Yeah the worm was super mid
frank finch
anyone got a good wa that shows good info in character panel
vivid vessel
anyone got a good wa that shows good info in character panel
not for you
daring yoke
hey guys, havent played KIR in my life. casting RTB right after KIR.
how do we ensure this can happen? does RTB cd reset when KIR is casted? or have to wait RTB available before casting KIR?
zealous plinth
hey guys, havent played KIR in my life. casting RTB right after KIR.
how do we...
You just send once after KiR once it’s ready
daring yoke
ah okay makes sense. thx
frank finch
https://wago.io/7ozlvrh_H
thx cutie
hasty warren
Hi pirates
wintry solar
Hello
young prism
is outlaw viable for m+ in s3?
wintry solar
Yes
young prism
but we need to change hero talents for raids if I understood correctly
balmy topaz
Everything is.. it’s just if you’re wanting to push for title there may be better more viable options
balmy topaz
but we need to change hero talents for raids if I understood correctly
Depends on the fight currently
hasty warren
popo choosing the best cat for pp
young prism
Everything is.. it’s just if you’re wanting to push for title there may be bette...
I finally understood that it is impossible without a premade
balmy topaz
Pretty sure any fights that have 3+ targets will want trickster the rest fatebound
wintry solar
Trickster for M+, fatebound for raid save for some bosses probably
balmy topaz
Trickster for M+, fatebound for raid save for some bosses probably
The council boss may be a trickster fight
hasty warren
is there a 2 target senario in raid ?
hasty warren
In season 2 I pushed to 3.5k (ish). Then it stopped there for me
noice
young prism
I quit 2-2.5 months ago
and then they fixed ks hahah
I guess they were waiting for me to quit
balmy topaz
In S1 I pugged +12s on week 1 and it was hell
hasty warren
I stopped at resi 14 for same reason
balmy topaz
I left it after there
rare moth
Reading the outlaw FAQ cuz I just wanted to even though I don't have to yet and ngl, that's 
torpid fiber
you just gotta learn it step by step tbh
normal forge
which talent build is he using here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmhoWqRPVN8
rare moth
you just gotta learn it step by step tbh
It's not the steps, it's just all the information. It's a lot to remember
torpid fiber
yeah
step by step as in you learn one piece at a time
the rotation becomes a lot clearer once you start playing it for a bit, it cleanly splits up into pieces ime
wintry solar
its a lot easier in practice
random stirrup
which talent build is he using here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmhoWqRPVN8
Kir 1fth trickster
rare moth
its a lot easier in practice
I hope so 🤣
I'll ask the dreaded question
Since I play Sunfury fire mage
Would fatebound or trickster be similar?
For reference, Sunfury and Frostfire, the difference is really just meteor. It's either an extra spell or a proc
You either manage meteor or you don't, aside from that, it's somewhat the same
wintry solar
yeah im not qualified to answer lol
lime lake
uh
rare moth
Oh I was saying that question to everyone
lime lake
well fatebound is just coin flips
trickster has coup to manage
and shit
so take that how you will
rare moth
trickster has coup to manage
Ok but from what I understand, coup is an extra spell right?
Or am I misunderstanding and it's a buff?
wintry solar
it replaces dispatch
lime lake
ye
vivid vessel
trickster is like
it can be a bit rng
but most often you just build to coup tehn vanish
rare moth
I mean
Oh how do I say this without coming across rude 🤔
I'm not saying it doesn't have RNG
I'm asking if it has less than fatebound with the coin flips
I know they both manage RB
torpid fiber
real talk fatebound rng is fake (or well, new tier set makes it real again which sucks but it should also make it kinda fake again) bc it doesn't impact anything but damage
rare moth
Also, since you brought up vanish
Is vanish not like a defensive? Why is it used in the rotation?
torpid fiber
pauses adr and enables crackshot
wintry solar
between the eyes doesnt go on cooldown
torpid fiber
doesn't go on cd and also does a shit ton bonus damage from the free dispatch cast
rare moth
subterfuge/underhanded upper hand procs
I see I see, so you're using a defensive to pause your buff to keep it up
torpid fiber
it's not really a defensive at this point
we've been using vanish as a major offensive cd since df s1
and df s3 it became basically entirely one
haughty wigeon
I see I see, so you're using a defensive to pause your buff to keep it up
i mean vanish isnt a defensive]
remote pecan
no it's not a defensive, it was never rly a defensive but now it's a core rotational dps ability. the entire spec hangs off vanish with crackshot
torpid fiber
two charges means you can line it up as a defensive sometimes
haughty wigeon
i dont think it was a defensive at any point of its history
wintry solar
vanish is how you use it. It's very versatile
torpid fiber
but it's currently in a state of being an offensive cd with defensive utility
torpid fiber
just a way to dip out of combat if you need to
this is a defensive tbf
vanishing to cancel a mechanic isn't really any different to cloaking to immune it, just more niche
yeah, never in raids but also came up a lot in M+
rare moth
just a way to dip out of combat if you need to
Yea, wouldn't that be a defensive? That's how mages use invisibility!
We use it either in M+ to gain a 70% DMG reduction OR we use it to escape combat/lose aggro
torpid fiber
yeah, it comes up way more in M+
haughty wigeon
since i got 2 people saying that technically makes it a defensive
wintry solar
Yea, wouldn't that be a defensive? That's how mages use invisibility!
We use i...
we use it for subterfuge
rare moth
but it's currently in a state of being an offensive cd with defensive utility
That's interesting 🤔 that's gonna be new for me in a rotation
torpid fiber
m+ you can use it to break some mechanics or break roots and shit or dodge CC
but rn it's way too important to the rotation to be considered anything other than an offensive cd
haughty wigeon
for any content unless its like hard content
neat mist
haughty wigeon
idk
rare moth
since i got 2 people saying that technically makes it a defensive
I'm relating it because that's how I learn, it's not me saying IT IS one, I'm just connecting pieces so I understand things better
torpid fiber
for any content unless its like hard content
eh, vanishing to cancel stuff like "leap between 4 ppl" mechanics in M+ does help even in low keys
haughty wigeon
i think at this point its completely lost its capability as a defensive
due to how powerful it is as a offensive cd
haughty wigeon
I'm relating it because that's how I learn, it's not me saying IT IS one, I'm ju...
no no i know
your fine
like im not trying to say anything negative
sometimes i just yap
wintry solar
the conversation of what kind of CD is is dumb ngl
haughty wigeon
cause now im like wondering
torpid fiber
i think at this point its completely lost its capability as a defensive
we have two charges which makes it way more reasonable to line up
and sometimes even in s3 it was worth holding it for specifically the slime boss in i think fall?
haughty wigeon
if ive ever seen a rogue use vanish defensively this season while i was tanking
torpid fiber
you wouldn't notice
haughty wigeon
i guess if i was like one of them regular fotmers
random obsidian
it makes sense to not even think of it as a defensive since your brain will just associate vanish with more damage
haughty wigeon
and do like 0 damage
torpid fiber
yeah, think of it as an offensive cd at first and then you can start thinking about it as a defensive later on
haughty wigeon
to lose threat
rare moth
the conversation of what kind of CD is is dumb ngl
Yea back to fatebound vs trickster 🤣 which one has less RNG?
I kinda wanna play the version that is less RNG so I can get used to it easier
I don't wanna dip too far and cry
torpid fiber
trickster has more rotational rng on the basis of fatebound having 0 rotational rng
wintry solar
FB rng can be ignored
haughty wigeon
fatebound
lime lake
fatebound rng is entirely in the background
haughty wigeon
kinda funny isnt it
lime lake
you just do more or less damage
rare moth
Ah ok
haughty wigeon
funny coin is less rotational rng than trickster
lime lake
can legit just not track it and never notice
torpid fiber
tbf with next season 4p fatebound will have an actual gameplay impact, but even then it won't change rotation prio afaik
wintry solar
just makes outlaw faster
lime lake
what is with this season and canceling channels
lime lake
apparently spriest is canceling void torrent too
random obsidian
on live or ptr?
lime lake
ptr
rare moth
tbf with next season 4p fatebound will have an actual gameplay impact, but even ...
I'll be honest with you vev, my rogue is not my main so I don't think I'll be doing any seasonal content with it really. I've said it before, I'm a world player, I collect things, but I do like my mage main to be brought in if needed for content.
Aside from that, I'm learning the spec because I feel like that's a must for any class, whether you play it hardcore or not
But that's personal, Im doing this cuz I want to
Not cuz I'm gonna be doing crazy deeps at the big boss in s3
torpid fiber
I'll be honest with you vev, my rogue is not my main so I don't think I'll be do...
I generally operate under the assumption that most people asking questions in a discord will get their 4p
(as a side note, outlaw is really fucking annoying to play world content with due to vanish resetting mobs unless you time your attack to break stealth very quickly, and even then sometimes it resets anyways. huge issue of the spec imo)
wintry solar
outlaws mobility is gimped in the world anyway
rare moth
I generally operate under the assumption that most people asking questions in a ...
🤔 I'll try my best, but if it means anything, I have the same issue with fire. The minute I combust, it's over, and at the same time- I could just switch to frost 🤣
torpid fiber
fire at least kills the mobs
rare moth
outlaws mobility is gimped in the world anyway
Wdym
torpid fiber
outlaw u press vanish and then the mob deaggros and goes back to full hp
wintry solar
grapple bugs out easily
blissful zinc
How does outlaw kir compare to assasin and sub during mythic raids damage wise
rare moth
outlaw u press vanish and then the mob deaggros and goes back to full hp
Oh I meant id manage by maybe skipping vanish unless I'm fighting a world boss 
but knowing my rotation would be nice to know where I'm skipping yk?
torpid fiber
Oh I meant id manage by maybe *skipping* vanish unless I'm fighting a world boss...
skipping vanish makes the spec way worse and clunkier is the reason it's such an issue imo
but i get ya
idk it's a stupid design choice that we don't have like "when you vanish mobs take 1s to reset" on UHUH or something
blissful zinc
outlaw u press vanish and then the mob deaggros and goes back to full hp
U can be quick enough to not let it despawn
torpid fiber
easy fix
torpid fiber
U can be quick enough to not let it despawn
not for every mob
wintry solar
explains why he called vanish a defensive CD tbh
torpid fiber
like 95% of mobs you can but 5% just always reset
blissful zinc
Atleast it worked for all delves
torpid fiber
i love outlaw and i think it's an awesome spec but I will also be honest about it feeling blegh in world content
in delves it's way nicer bc of brann as well
fluid meadow
okay but next thing is that they give vision to every shit mob/pack in delves and not to bosses
torpid fiber
okay but next thing is that they give vision to every shit mob/pack in delves an...
this is so fucking real
rare moth
skipping vanish makes the spec way worse and clunkier is the reason it's such an...
Ohhhh I see I see, interesting 🤔 that's a bit odd since sometimes you can go invisible and the Mob can still see you
torpid fiber
Ohhhh I see I see, interesting 🤔 that's a bit odd since sometimes you can go in...
yeah it's inconsistent how long it takes to drop aggro between mobs, but it's pretty usually consistent for a single mob
rare moth
But I mean would it matter outside of a world boss or a raid boss?
torpid fiber
so if a mob resets once from you doing it if you're fast enough it's always going to reset
raid bosses it doesn't matter
it matters for rares
rare moth
Oh!
torpid fiber
outlaw doesn't really have good self-sustain and the strong sustain we do have is also tied to vanish
rare moth
Hmm I'll consider my mage only for rares she's a walking hearthstone anyway
torpid fiber
so you end up in a spot where you're going "ok but if i greed a vanish and the mob doesn't reset i get infinite bonus damage and a heal"
rare moth
outlaw doesn't really have good self-sustain and the strong sustain we do have i...
What about delves, is outlaw bad for delves?
torpid fiber
i've found outlaw is pretty decent for delves
except sometimes brann bugs out and leaves your party
and then it sucks
wintry solar
outlaw and sub are the best because of 1hour tricks
rare moth
except sometimes brann bugs out and leaves your party
Eww, he should hold aggro
Useless dwarf
torpid fiber
but outlaw has really good sustained damage + you have immunities + brann means mobs shouldn't deaggro except for when he runs out of the boss arena for no good reason
wintry solar
except sometimes brann bugs out and leaves your party
you know its bad when even NPCs rage quit
torpid fiber
also in delves you get to take advantage of frequent natural restealths, which are huge for outlaw
rare moth
also in delves you get to take advantage of frequent natural restealths, which a...
Huh?
Where?
torpid fiber
between packs!
wintry solar
at the end of apack
rare moth
I don't get bonuses as a mage!
fluid meadow
or u just go in stealth and skip everything u can
rare moth
So true, big brain
wintry solar
gotta get the minions
rare moth
Ok I'll go for fatebound when the time comes
wintry solar
if youre doing world content you can do fatebound now
rare moth
if youre doing world content you can do fatebound now
I'm lvl 22, I'm just leveling so fast and everything is coming at me at once that I feel like I need to start learning
I just got dispatch and a new poison
wintry solar
youll learn as you go
rare moth
And a few new talents
rare moth
youll learn as you go
I meant like, not the starter build 😂 cuz blizzard is making me talent specific things that y'all aren't using
wintry solar
I think thats just the regular HO build
read and think about what you need while leveling
rare moth
Like it made me do call to shadows? And it made me talent extra sprint speed and reducing the CD
wintry solar
dont worry about what we run, worry about what you need at lvl 35
what are you goona do with extra sprint speed? lol
your cdr is soooo low
I guess that high in the tree your options are washed
rare moth
So far my leveling experience has been stealth > Sap > Ambush > SS > Dispatch (or pistol shot if it procs)
Everything dies that way
Literally, everything just drops so quickly doing that
rare moth
what are you goona do with extra sprint speed? lol
Idk, blizzard's starter build probably makes you do it cuz they expect you to stealth and move fast
wintry solar
they do but its for max level
torpid fiber
wait do we not take extra sprint speed in the normal build am i stupid
winged raft
wait do we not take extra sprint speed in the normal build am i stupid
we take it
fluid meadow
u really cant learn things during leveling rn, like players did tw dungeons i just get kicked cuz i dont let them play and killed everything, leveling is so bad and useless
wintry solar
wait do we not take extra sprint speed in the normal build am i stupid
I was talking about the context of leveling
rare moth
u really cant learn things during leveling rn, like players did tw dungeons i ju...
Wait is that why I got kicked once?!?!?
rare moth
I got kicked on my mage once and I was so confused 😭 I killed everything so quickly too
I thought I was doing good and they got rid of me :(
wintry solar
they want to play the game, not follow the person doing all the work
wintry solar
theyd just /f if they wanted to
rare moth
I had to do the TW dungeons to get the mount 😭
rare moth
I'll do baby DPS then, only spam fireballs until boss
jolly geyser
mages either blast everything or are meh
wintry solar
consistently bad or good
rare moth
Sadge
wintry solar
and you dont find out until way too late
wintry solar
No :( I'm so nice
im sure you are
rare moth
u really cant learn things during leveling rn, like players did tw dungeons i ju...
For the first point btw, that's so sad, I've been using leveling to learn the class 😭
wintry solar
you can learn the most basic stuff while leveling
spec doesnt function until lvl 70
fluid meadow
i mean leveling is just fast and maybe better to learn at max lvl if u r interested enough to not waste time and relearn things at any level
rare moth
Same!
wintry solar
sounds like a spriest ability
rare moth
sounds like a spriest ability
I don't have one so that would be wild
ocean imp
In my opinion they should have implemented ingame class guidance instead of the OBR
pastel sierra
They have lightup assist no?
ocean imp
An instance where you could change your stats, have 0 CDs and have a proper explanation about how your class works
Yeah but that hardly explains anything does it
I'm fairly sure it's also not optimal
I really hate shortcuts like OBR and the highlight thingie instead of proper guidance
pastel sierra
You expect people to want to improve
haughty wigeon
I mean
We also have to consider
That the way we tc stuff isn’t the way blizzard wants us to play
Or atleast they don’t want to pigeon hole players into thinking this is the only way to play
Hence why obr and assisted is what it is
ocean imp
You're talking about the rotation?
ocean imp
I 100% agree with that
haughty wigeon
Idk why more and more players are afraid of reading
pastel sierra
It also does not seem like blizzard really knows where to go with outlaw to make it more accessible, but that another can of worms
ocean imp
That's mainly why I hate cattering to the people who just don't want to try
haughty wigeon
It also does not seem like blizzard really knows where to go with outlaw to make...
I wouldn’t say that either
It’s already some what accessible
It’s just not brain dead like ret or bm
pastel sierra
That's mainly why I hate cattering to the people who just don't want to try
You forget those people also pay and its the majority of players
ocean imp
It does not seem that Blizzard wants Outlaw to go anywhere 
pastel sierra
You press rtb
Explain the rtb reroll rules to someone who knows nothing about the spec
haughty wigeon
Explain the rtb reroll rules to someone who knows nothing about the spec
I don’t need to do that at all
ocean imp
Given how it has been away from the radars for so long
haughty wigeon
If the guy is just starting out or just being a casual, explaining the arbitrary rtb rules to a new player that doesn’t have a grasp on the core is just dumb
haughty wigeon
Given how it has been away from the radars for so long
Don’t go around automodder pls
pastel sierra
If the guy is just starting out or just being a casual, explaining the arbitrary...
I mean its the only active buff management on the spec
ocean imp
Explain the joke
haughty wigeon
I mean its the only active buff management on the spec
Slam rtb on cd benefit from supercharge
Don’t roll off 5
And that’s only if they want to improve in the spec
If the dude is having fun
Like man
ocean imp
I wouldn't advice Outlaw to a beginner outright, it's probably one of the hardest specs rn
haughty wigeon
U have a lot of buffs from rtb, Don’t roll off buffs until it’s gone if no supercharger and tierset
proven ocean
vivid vessel
Explain the rtb reroll rules to someone who knows nothing about the spec
what rules
we havent had complex rtb rules snice sl
ocean imp
That's relative I believe
ocean imp
Global difficulty
haughty wigeon
It’s not super bloated or whatever people like to say it is
vivid vessel
compared to whwat we had in the past
pastel sierra
relative to what
Relative to how stupid i am and how much you already played outlaw
haughty wigeon
If anything outlaws difficulty isn’t its rules or stupid sub 1% gains
It’s the apm
That people struggle with
And even then
You look into that apm
proven ocean
People think everyone plays outlaw 16 hrs a day for 5 years straight
proven ocean
haughty wigeon
And half of it is spamming bte and or ambush
vivid vessel
Relative to how stupid i am and how much you already played outlaw
dude th;e rule is, roll till 5 buff currently, and ndext tier its roll with loaded only
thats it
ocean imp
That's for S3 right?
haughty wigeon
Give me back Legion RtB where you'd roll until you get good buffs
Huge rules
crimson thicket
dude th;e rule is, roll till 5 buff currently, and ndext tier its roll with load...
Do you reroll the D's as well?
ocean imp
Bone the rolls
haughty wigeon
I don’t think outlaw is as complex a spec people think it is, and if it is. Theres no harm in encouraging g new players into breaking the spec into steps
pastel sierra
When i learned S1 outlaw i felt insanely stupid not being able to parse 'roll unless you have this amount of buffs or these buffs and press KiR on 4'
proven ocean
I don’t think outlaw is as complex a spec people think it is, and if it is. Ther...
Its definitely as complex as people think it is
Outlaw isn’t easy lmao
ocean imp
There are plenty of easy to medium difficulty specs in the game, Outlaw is fine as it is imo
haughty wigeon
Apm stomps on causal spec entry than anything else
ocean imp
Heck, what are the current truly difficult specs
haughty wigeon
Subjective af
haughty wigeon
Let’s take our latest degenerate dps increase as a example
crimson thicket
I remember fire mage guide in early df had pages and pages just for openers
haughty wigeon
Are we really gonna tell a casual player that canceling killing spree is required for outlaw
gloomy coral
"Heh, outlaw is so easy."
crimson thicket
Needed a PhD to play fire
pastel sierra
But i also havent sat down to actually learn them
ocean imp
Arcane isn't anymore if you don't take into account the Barrage flowcharts, which are fairly minor dps
No idea about feral but heard Max says it's assassination bis rn
vivid vessel
Are we really gonna tell a casual player that canceling killing spree is require...
ye cause it makes the ability not feel like absolute dogshit
qol + dps increase
win in my book
rare shoal
New to the spec, can I ask why its better to cancel the new Killing Spree before finishing channel?
ocean imp
What if they divided KS' damage by 2 but you could use other spells during the channel
It's not, you can either cancel or not
It's the same
Or so I am told
haughty wigeon
ye cause it makes the ability not feel like absolute dogshit
Casuals hate cancel tech zac
This is the shit that makes them think outlaw is this super complex hyper rng impossible to get into spec
When it’s probably a sub .2% gain to cancel
gaunt phoenix
New to the spec, can I ask why its better to cancel the new Killing Spree before...
it's basically the same dps instead of strictly better at this point
Outlaw just values its gcds for cdr, after KS stops generating cps it just happens to work out
ocean imp
For fluidity's sake and class identity, I'd cancel KS in order to press more buttons
I'm a gamer
rare shoal
Ahk sick thank you for replies
vivid vessel
This is the shit that makes them think outlaw is this super complex hyper rng im...
litteraly more intuitive to cancel than not ngl
ocean imp
Actually, what's your point
haughty wigeon
My point is
lofty sand
Me see bar, me see bang bang, me wait bar
ocean imp
Outlaw is hard for casuals
lofty sand
It is hard, hard to get into hard to min max
haughty wigeon
It’s hard to min max that’s the word ty tanlat
It’s not hard to get into
Slam rtb on cd
pastel sierra
Outlaw isn’t hard
Execution difficulty is still difficult
ocean imp
What
haughty wigeon
Press ambush when it appears
ocean imp
You don't even dice anymore
haughty wigeon
Don’t fuck up cds
vivid vessel
Think like a grey parser Zac
i am
haughty wigeon
Ya I forgot
vivid vessel
im not a caster player
i dont have a castbar
i do have a cp bar tho
cp bar is my cast bar
haughty wigeon
We used to press slice and dice
lofty sand
Bro in theory u can learn the spec, but there are rules to follow which is as the highest apm spec its not easy. Because of that apm goes down, dmg goes down
willow portal
Should i try and learn KiR before next season starts?
ocean imp
It’s the illusion of difficulty
Ok I understand this point, but what's the problem with it
haughty wigeon
Should i try and learn KiR before next season starts?
I think it’s important for any outlaw to learn kir if they’re gonna seriously play outlaw
ocean imp
Now that HO is behind yea
haughty wigeon
Ok I understand this point, but what's the problem with it
I don’t think there is a problem, I just think the community makes the gamer harder for themselves than it should be
But like that’s the nature of the game and its player base
haughty wigeon
It kinda makes me sad when a casual player thinks they can’t play outlaw because they think they can’t opt out of crackshot or whatever in world content and time walking
When you 100% can
For the irrelevant content they do
ocean imp
But honestly, for 100% of things in this world, things are hard until they are not, and people often will not try (enough) and complain that its hard
lofty sand
You can learn the spec yeah,but difficulty is also relative. Relatively to other specs outlaw is really hard
haughty wigeon
Like seeing a person quit outlaw cause they don’t like crackshot cause vanish resets elite mobs
They didn’t even think of swapping out of crackshot for world content
They literally thought they couldn’t
Until I pointed it out during the Diablo event
lofty sand
Thats skill issue
haughty wigeon
And it was so crazy to me that this person thought he was forced to play this one way for silly fun content
haughty wigeon
Thats skill issue
Ya it is but it’s so wide spread and it’s such a self imposed issue that it’s crazy to me regardless, the one thing the talent tree succeeded in and casuals artn capitalizing on it at all
lofty sand
Well yeah it is crazy
ocean imp
That's how casuals play brother
proven ocean
drowsy thicket
hi
in S3 outlaw is better for m+ or assa ?
proven ocean
Assa
ocean imp
Combat
crude flower
Arcane mage
desert tendon
Mm
somber ridge
Would you say the outlaw powerlevel in the next season is close to what it is currently?
willow portal
if i am unlucky rolling, is it normal to just have KIR ready for a while?
vivid vessel
yeeee
willow portal
so kir is just waiting for 4 buffs and then you click and once rtb is ready again you roll once more
sound kinda easy imo
vivid vessel
ye
willow portal
and i am not supposed to have the kir buffs running until kir is ready again usually right?
vivid vessel
sound kinda easy imo
I mean the button itself isn't what makes kir hard idk why people think that way
vivid vessel
and i am not supposed to have the kir buffs running until kir is ready again usu...
No
willow portal
what makes kir hard then?
vivid vessel
Builders rules mostly
The fact you hold pistol shot sometimes
The fact you have less cp income
So you have to be careful with the buttons you actually press
The energy is worse also so you will have issues if you fuck up
vast frost
pressing ambush is fun tho 
lone nebula
maybe this is helpful for the S3 !up command
vivid vessel
Maybe but it's ugly
wintry solar
no its an image
mighty pivot
There was one around with a way better colour scheme
willow portal
why isnt kir using ambush?
wintry solar
Hidden Opp is what makes Ambush good
willow portal
but during subterfuge ambush gives more cp right?
gaunt phoenix
No it's about the same
hasty warren
ambush use more energy too, or it's not relevant ?
gaunt phoenix
yea it does
vast frost
outlaw so fun, wish gearing it wasn't awful
hasty warren
outlaw so fun, wish gearing it wasn't awful
why ? u don't love having to loot 2 weapons ?
btw do we know what craft we'll do first ? wrist and weapon ?
hasty warren
haste vers is good too no ? (idk if there's one tho)
keen belfry
If you need the haste sure
dense bolt
did they add a ring or neck to priory for next season?
i think i saw that somewhere
like high vers one
hasty warren
did they add a ring or neck to priory for next season?
i think y
keen belfry
Crit verse neck I think
hasty warren
I saw something like this
blissful zinc
@gaunt phoenix ive been asking since yestarday how does outlaw kir compare to assasin and sub in mythic raids?
I need to up my single target damage big time if i want to get in any mythic raids whatsoever
blissful zinc
Damage wise