outlaw

[frail veldt]

It needs more than that

To be meta

[proven ocean]

Jpc not streaming means alot to me ngl

[frail veldt]

Means he has something secret and op?

[proven ocean]

Wow’s endgame scene is dying slowly

[frail veldt]

Or that he quit

Oh

Yeah it is unfort

Pvp too

I think all the classic variations did segment the population

[proven ocean]

Ramfam is gone, windi’s prime days pushing era in bfa is gone

We had really big names back then

[pastel sierra]

No one wins on the content creation side with that yeah

[proven ocean]

Like fem

Fem was a rly good tank

[strong halo]

I miss Ramfam, loved his ui too

[frail veldt]

Yeah

[proven ocean]

Competetive against naowh etc

[dawn talon]

people just getting old bror

[frail veldt]

Streamers feel obligated to stream he one with highest view count

[proven ocean]

My ui is slightly ramfam inspired if u haven’t noticed

My player frame isn’t the same however it used to be

In DF

then i changed it

Idk if u saw my current ui but my rogue package’s style is the same

I kinda changed it to shadowy theme

[craggy barn]

show

[strong halo]

I haven’t seen urs in. While let me check it out l. Maybe if you streamed more 👀👀

[proven ocean]

U can find it in my vods

[frail veldt]

I wanted to change my icons similar to the high res ones you have @proven ocean but my brain is just SO trained on the classic ones

Yours look so much better though

[proven ocean]

Classic ones are cooked

[strong halo]

I have the HD icons. Mage discord roasted my Ui so I had to step my game up

[craggy barn]

why do u care what mages think

[stiff vector]

ngl zeross I imported your rogue WA the other day just to see if there was anything good I can yoink for my rogue WA and its kinda cooked lmfao. Also the trinkets or w/e labled "redbull 1, 2, 3" were funny

[covert kestrel]

Send the pic they roasted

[strong halo]

This was a while ago like 1 year lol

Something bout icons being low res

[frail veldt]

I think Zacs ui is bis

Pretty clean

Except!

For the fucking rectangles

I hate the squished icons

[lime lake]

wtf

the rectangles are bis

and i will not accept slander

[frail veldt]

Dwarf ass lookin ui

[strong halo]

Bro that’s like his whole ui lmao which is why I hate it no offense squished icons ugly imo

[craggy barn]

u should try out my text only rogue ui 🙂

i have not updated it since s1

[lime lake]

ok now im interested

[craggy barn]

https://wago.io/kp_RT5Y_c

it is giga cursed

[strong halo]

Don’t speak to me or my child ever again

[lime lake]

this is insanely cursed

i love it

[torpid fiber]

Text only WA pack that recreates icons in ascii art when

[craggy barn]

i was able to play with it for a while

but i got bored of it

[strong halo]

Imo I think atrocity ui is goated idk if it’s optimal for rogue tho

[pastel sierra]

Theres no optimal ui for anything

[craggy barn]

now that i brought it up, i might update the text only pack

[lime lake]

optimal is whatever works best for you

im not a huge fan of his ui personally but obviously a lot of people are

and its definitely well made

[craggy barn]

apparently someone comented on one of my other weak aura packs months ago and i never saw it

[strong halo]

Yeah just meant that it tracks too many things but love the layout

I like tracking the bare minimum

[lime lake]

can probably disable whatever you dont want to track, thats what i do normally with wa packs

though some implode when you do that

[craggy barn]

god this is cursed

[lime lake]

honestly i want to use this for a raid night just so when people watch my pov they get stunlocked

[craggy barn]

i ahve to add in the UB stuff

[strong halo]

That’s a wild ui ngl

Mad respect though

[craggy barn]

ub and escalating blades added

pepw

this shit is so stupid

[frail veldt]

Yeah in terms of it being clean and having important information though it's really good

[proper bear]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[lime lake]

ok but i need it to work with deathstalker too mr wa maker

[craggy barn]

dw ill get to it

lol

ds done

er damnit needa fix some more shit

[frank bane]

Do this every season this is amazing ❤️

[upper surge]

lmao

one of my guildies

did it

[craggy barn]

ok its now a counter next to ur combo points

uploaded it if u want a cringe text only pack

idk what else to add at this point too lazy

i could make the cast bar into text only as well

[tender wedge]

Cursed cursed cursed

[lime lake]

holy fuck

we've ascended

now i need text only unit frames

[pastel sierra]

Just put numbers for alive/total ppl

Maybe with role

Who needs to see health bars

On rogue

Like

[glass grove]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[pastel sierra]

2/2 tanks
3/4 healers
10/14 dps

[craggy barn]

god im too lazy to do a full on ui text only overhaul

[stray star]

Are these sims already updated with the latest tuning?

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont think assassination is done

[nocturne mirage]

Just scroll back in the channel the last hour for the good PTR sim talk

[lime lake]

but imagine how good it would be

text only nameplates

[craggy barn]

nah im done messing with it

[lime lake]

i might look into it later

and make something cursed

[craggy barn]

i was wrong, i made this back in s3 df

so it was missing all the hero talent shit

which i added ds and trickster

[haughty wigeon]

sin isnt ready

come back when its live

[stray star]

nah I'm going to play outlaw anyway, I was just wondering how updated it is, as I see that someone often appears typing !fuu

[gaunt phoenix]

the actual patchwerk numbers are largely useless anyway

imo the sheet is most useful when he adds trinket comparisons and such

[keen belfry]

just thought about fatebound

nightmares

[latent oak]

flipping coins is cool

!!

[digital linden]

is there any way to see the effect on dps for each tier set on specs, just to compare the increase

[stray star]

Are we still going to stack the versa after 33%, or are we going to leaning more towards crit?

[gaunt phoenix]

it's still mostly vers

fully geared prolly has like 27000 vers 10000 crit

at some point vers and crit are fairly similar so just have to ask top gear

[agile quiver]

with the new Killing Spree, what happens if your initial target dies?

[gaunt phoenix]

its not targeted, you just keep firing

if there are targets nearby, you shoot at them, if not, you hit nothing

[tender wedge]

Another KS win, add it to the board boys

[knotty oriole]

idk if this was answered already, do we use dispatch on 5 + cp if you have coup de grace buff?

[prisma pelican]

Hey is there an addon that auto press or macro Vanish under certain conditions ?

[solemn drift]

You don't want to do that

[covert kestrel]

Yes, normal finishing priority with certain minmax exception if you would press SS and waste your unseen blade proc

[covert kestrel]

[knotty oriole]

Thanks!

[topaz spoke]

our damage is so flat..

[craggy barn]

ill let shindig explain it to u

[gaunt phoenix]

that specific image is cause of the variable cooldown reduction

Ofc we kinda dip in and out of vanish

[daring oxide]

I've woken up at 5 10 am specifically to buy wow tokens at the PEAK

EU boys in 2mins (5 : 11 : 52secs) wow tokens gonna hit giga peak time to buy

[lime lake]

[daring oxide]

i think its hit the peak

time to buyyyyyyyyyy

[frail veldt]

holyyyy

[craggy barn]

hm why the fuck are my weak auras that are anchored to my focus loading on login when i dont even have a focus

[frail veldt]

idk blizz ui update maybe

[craggy barn]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[rare moth]

Can one of y'all explain this to me

[daring oxide]

are you 10 ilvl

[rare moth]

What

[daring oxide]

?

[rare moth]

Im lvl 22

[daring oxide]

what ilvl is your gear

[frail veldt]

which part

[daring oxide]

ok ye

[frail veldt]

you didnt ask a question

[daring oxide]

i explained why your damage is donut level

[rare moth]

Im confused like what it does, it just tells me its a finishing move

[frail veldt]

thats all it does

[daring oxide]

ok so you spend your CP

[frail veldt]

damage based on combo points

so you build combo points

then you can press dispatch

[daring oxide]

more CP u spend, more empowered your finisher is

[frail veldt]

and consume them

and do damage

[rare moth]

So what makes it different to Evicerate?

[frail veldt]

right now? nothing

[daring oxide]

Dispatch = outlaw

Eviscerate = sub

[rare moth]

Wait wtf

[daring oxide]

Envenom = Assa

[frail veldt]

later on, mostly nothing but yeah dispatch is just an outlaw flavored eviscerate

[rare moth]

It replaced it!

[frail veldt]

yes

[rare moth]

It replaced my Evicerate!

[frail veldt]

now spec assa

and itll be envenom

[daring oxide]

omg it did!

[frail veldt]

eviscerate is for sub rogue

[daring oxide]

wow

[rare moth]

But why does it change if they're all the same?

[daring oxide]

because

blizzard design

[frail veldt]

asking why some abilities have different flavor/skins despite them mechanically being the same as others is like asking why the sky is blue haha

thats how wow does flavor

its just fantasy

[daring oxide]

its like how half the mounts in this game have the same skeleton just different cosmetic surgery

[frail veldt]

its a game

[rare moth]

😭 Ig, seems a little silly but Ill go with it. Ty

[daring oxide]

but youve made the right choice playing outlaw

[frail veldt]

yeah its just their way of making each spec feel a little unique from each other

[rare moth]

Im sorry, they don't really do this for mage and thats the only class I've played for 10+ years

[frail veldt]

same way mage has fireball

frostbolt

and arcane blast

[daring oxide]

the other two specs are for crayon munchers

[frail veldt]

even though theyre all the same button

and yes I know technically mage keeps the others

[daring oxide]

arcane mage has 2 buttons

[rare moth]

Tbf, Im playing outlaw cuz I play fire mage 😂 I haven't tried out the RNG yet tho

[grim spear]

3, 3

[rare moth]

Yea, thanks to Porom! Without Porom's barrage helper, we would be memorizing conditions

Arcane would be atrocious to play without it

[lime lake]

good thing combat weak auras are perfectly safe and not going anywhere

[rare moth]

True

[lime lake]

[rare moth]

Although

They should put that barrage helper directly into the game

[frail veldt]

they arent

dont worry

[lime lake]

i never worry

[frail veldt]

nothing blizzard has said implies they will be removing WAs

[lime lake]

imagine having frown lines

[frail veldt]

the only thing they have implied is that they want to make having WAs less valuable

[rare moth]

Btw I know I don't have to worry about it rn, but Im basically pressing 234 and I just wanna ask...When do you press the die?

[frail veldt]

at your level there is no rule

[rare moth]

I guess so, Im jw

[frail veldt]

outlaw changes a LOT as you move more into the tree

[rare moth]

I see I see

[frail veldt]

if I were you id just press it whenver your buff runs out

it gives you 1 of 6 buffs

sometimes 2 and sometimes 5

[gaunt phoenix]

this person has asked like 3 times what to do and you keep replying "dont worry about it"

[daring oxide]

what the heck is porom?

[gaunt phoenix]

like

respectfully that's not an answer

[rare moth]

Everything dies so quickly 😭 I only die if I have more than 1 enemy

[rare moth]

He's our mage in the mage discord. He's an arcane enthusiast

[frail veldt]

I just gave an answer though 😭

[rare moth]

He's amazing

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[rare moth]

Its okay, when I'm 80 and asking stupid questions cuz nobody answers them, I'll refer back to this /J

[daring oxide]

You want to press the Die when you have no buffs or just one buff

[frail veldt]

but yeah itll be hard to identify whether you have one of the rtb buffs

unless you download a wa

because its 1 of 6 unique buffs

[daring oxide]

there are more rules behind it but i just keep it simple for ye

[rare moth]

Ah thats why I don't have to worry about it, the only buff I really have is adrenaline lmao

[daring oxide]

you could also just press the Die on CD

whenever its up

[frail veldt]

he means 1 of the 6 rtb buffs

there are 6 buffs that rtb can give you

[rare moth]

Oh mewo, I'm a girl :3

[frail veldt]

thats fine I was referring to vai

as the he

[rare moth]

Oh

[rare moth]

I could yes, but I don't wanna build bad habits so I've just been doing anything

[daring oxide]

i am the he

[frail veldt]

for now I would just roll every 30ish seconds

[rare moth]

I will say, grappling hook? 10/10 skip in caves

[frail veldt]

grapple is amazing

you get 4 of them later on

outlaw makes mage seem like a turtle

[rare moth]

Especially the fact I can use it stealthed

[rare moth]

🤌 Lmao too bad though, Ill never give up my walking hearthstone

[frail veldt]

also I just want to make youre aware, outlaw can feel pretty awful during the leveling experience

[daring oxide]

@rare moth I really recommend the FAQ written by our resident Outlaw Lord, first of the pirates, last of the green text outlaws, legendary cookgod of the outlaw APL, @gaunt phoenix :

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/856897810536071208

[frail veldt]

so dont let the leveling experience discourage you

the spec really isnt "complete" until youre max level

like a lot of its mechanics just dont function very well before max level

[rare moth]

I haven't had a bad time so far, but Im also doing legion lmao

I'll concede tho, fire is terrible leveling. Frost is the MVP

[daring oxide]

If you don't want to build bad habits

[frail veldt]

and even while leveling since outlaw relies on restealths/vanishes to do its proper rotation and vanishing while fighting a mob can cause it to reset

[frail veldt]

yeah assa/sub are both quite good for leveling

if you find outlaw feeling too slow

[rare moth]

I will! when im 80 ;3 so I have the proper tree. Rn Im using the starter build blizz makes you do

[daring oxide]

@rare moth dont listen to him assa and sub will rot your brain and make you become geriatric

[rare moth]

Slow?! It kills everything too fast 😂

[frail veldt]

LOL

yeah it can slow down a little eventually

compared to the other two specs

especially from 70-80

[rare moth]

Would you say sub is frost and assa is arcane? So my peanut brain understands

[frail veldt]

eh

rogue doesnt 1:1 translate other than fire ~= outlaw

[daring oxide]

I would say sub is devoker and assa is ret paladin with no gear

[rare moth]

LMAO

Not the ret paladin 😭

[daring oxide]

whatever you do dont link screenshots of logs or details in the assa channel, their sensitive souls will be pained and they'll be upset over nothing

tread carefully

also outlaw leveling is really fast

once you learn more talents you'll be one shotting most things very quickly when coming out of stealth

[frail veldt]

is that a thing?

[daring oxide]

nah most likely just a joke i dont think they are actually annoyed by it

[neat mist]

The hivemind council of Assa is indeed not upset

[rare moth]

You should see the mage discord when you mention 1/3 things

1. Editing the SQW window
2. No log link
3. FoTM spec/"Which spec best spec" questions

[daring oxide]

lol thats a good way to describe them, makes a lot of sense

[frail veldt]

what is the mage opinion on SQW?

[daring oxide]

whats SQW?

oh

[neat mist]

Spell queue window

[frail veldt]

or your ejust saying it sparks a huge discussion every time

[daring oxide]

spell queue window

[frail veldt]

psh noob

[daring oxide]

lmao

[frail veldt]

this dude

[daring oxide]

i just call it spell queue man

[gritty sail]

Spell queue window

[gaunt phoenix]

spell queue window

[rare moth]

Its a sin to edit the SQW window, its only for people who want to convince themselves that they're doing higher dps when they're not and Rogues apparently make propaganda about it

[daring oxide]

ok

[neat mist]

spell queue window

[daring oxide]

i 100% understand

[frail veldt]

oh whaaaaat

[neat mist]

it's a window man

[lone spear]

q u e u e
w i n d o w

[daring oxide]

forgive me pleeees

[lone spear]

spelled it, beast mode

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/ponke-ponkesol-solana-monke-monkey-gif-4968951887646698844

[frail veldt]

yeah honestly I think its rather rare for a rogue to not lower sqw

[rare moth]

No seriously, do not mention it in there lmao they'll laugh at you and bully you

[frail veldt]

the spec kinda feels "hard" to play on the default sqw

thats wild

[rare moth]

Consider me one of em lol Im not doing that cuz I main mage

[daring oxide]

well on the topic of SQW

[frail veldt]

its definitely playable without changing it

[daring oxide]

mine is 200 right now

and im not happy

[frail veldt]

but many people experience your button press getting "stuck" with too high of a sqw on outlaw

[daring oxide]

i need to figure out what to have it on before tier starts

[frail veldt]

which can be bad

since outlaws gcd is .8 seconds with adr up

[daring oxide]

yes

i cant play with 400ms

i get stuck

its too slow?

[frail veldt]

so if youre mashing the wrong button

[lime lake]

have you tried 184

[daring oxide]

184?

[frail veldt]

you essentially need to react within 400ms

which can be hard

[daring oxide]

so specific!

[gaunt phoenix]

i think 183

[daring oxide]

hmm

[lime lake]

hm

[frail veldt]

182 even

if im feeling bold

[lime lake]

that might be too little but maybe

[daring oxide]

hmmm....

ok

i'll sleep on it

[rare moth]

Wdym getting stuck? Can you show a visual of this?

[daring oxide]

184, 183 or 182

very tough choices

[frail veldt]

sure leme bust out the mspaint

[gaunt phoenix]

the last person who said that was raiding with a rtx 2060

[daring oxide]

playing with 400ms is like, being in antartica with dialup internet

[frail veldt]

I have it happen to me in raid too though

and I have a 4070ti

[gaunt phoenix]

hm skill issued it seems

[frail veldt]

I thought you also said theres some wonky stuff with sqc

sqw*

[daring oxide]

i have a 5080 and i felt like my brain was dissolving playing with 400ms

with 9800xddddddd

[rare moth]

No I meant because for me, at least for mage, when I pre-cast pyro, I can queue up Phoenix and I see it highlight on my bar that its queue'd

[daring oxide]

i see

[rare moth]

So I wanna see what they mean by "stuck"

[daring oxide]

ive never played a caster tbh except for a resto druid

so im clueless

[gaunt phoenix]

i suspect so but maybe several things are related to it

[daring oxide]

maybe outlaw specific bug

cos of the niche gcd

[gaunt phoenix]

i somehow doubt that

[daring oxide]

you somehow dont doubt that?

or you doubt that

what did u truly mean

[gaunt phoenix]

i somehow doubt that

[daring oxide]

dam

[rare moth]

Can I share a mage pov video here to show yall or is that against the rules cuz its not rogue?

[daring oxide]

its not against the rules of outlaw rogue

but it might hurt assa hivemind feelings

[gaunt phoenix]

yea you will be banned

[daring oxide]

no no

u wont be

[neat mist]

I mean

Why is he not already permabanned?

[daring oxide]

outlaws are freedom of speechers

[neat mist]

Just for mentioning mages

Come on...

[daring oxide]

@rare moth dont be scared its ok

trust me

you are safe here

[gaunt phoenix]

imaging playing the hero class mage and deciding to fall to the depths of hell (outlaw)

[daring oxide]

in this safe gold text zone

[rare moth]

Ok ok

[frail veldt]

so if this is your button pressing within a gcd, some people report that even though you are pressing pistol shot at the end of your gcd, because you put ambush in at the start of your sqw, it still ends up casting ambush when your gcd is ready again even though you wanted pistol shot

[rare moth]

I play fire, it was meant to happen

[lime lake]

such an artist

[frail veldt]

ty ty

modern day picasso

[daring oxide]

ELI5 please

[frail veldt]

me press ambush

but change mind and press ps

but game still press ambush

[daring oxide]

no i didnt ask for caveman

[frail veldt]

lol

aite you right

[frail veldt]

I wanted ambush

[gaunt phoenix]

this is the reason why

[daring oxide]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1255110288081162311/1318256041112109106/catnum-cat-nom.gif

[frail veldt]

yeah true

but would you rather have

a delayed gcd

or an incorrect gcd

if you lower your window

you would have gotten maybe a 50ms delayed gcd

[lime lake]

just get better internet

[daring oxide]

who was it that was a 400ms advocate

[frail veldt]

but the correct gcd

[daring oxide]

was it @frail bronze

opps

@glass mortar

[frail veldt]

instead of a frame perfect gcd

but an incorrect press

I prefer the former

[gaunt phoenix]

yea, that's why some people prefer a very low spell queue even if it is hurting them over time

[daring oxide]

yeah i played 100ms for a while and yup was defo losing gcds

[frail veldt]

hurting the timing of their gcds but benefiting the correctness of their button presses

[daring oxide]

100%

[frail veldt]

I think theres a sweet spot

[daring oxide]

so i went to like 160ms

[frail veldt]

but I dont think the sweet spot is 400ms personally

though ofc very subjective

[daring oxide]

but then still had issues

so then went 300ms

and felt like a ghost was attacking me

and went back down to 200ms again

[rare moth]

Ok screenshot better, see how my PF is highlighted? Thats my queue. Pf is gonna launch with pyro

[daring oxide]

so your queue is 400ms

then

based on that

[rare moth]

Ye

[frail veldt]

yeah but mage motto is ABC

[daring oxide]

0.2 x 2 0.4

[rare moth]

So basically, how does this look for Outlaw rogue?

[daring oxide]

er

[frail veldt]

mechanically it operates the same

[rare moth]

Like do y'all not see it highlight?

[daring oxide]

well

[frail veldt]

well we dont have casts so we dont see it that way

[daring oxide]

no highlight

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont show my action bars

[daring oxide]

we have instant gcds

no casts

but

things can feel 'floaty'

at 400ms as outlaw

well this is just my feeling

but i really dont know how to put it in words

[frail veldt]

like in the shitty mspaint I showed, what can happen is you get a "wrong" button press sometimes

[rare moth]

🤔 Can you show me your pov with Windows + Alt R?

Its windows built in screen record

[gaunt phoenix]

windows in current year

[rare moth]

Idk if you use mac, idk that one

[daring oxide]

i could but im in bed atm scratching my nose

[gaunt phoenix]

lmao

[lime lake]

based

[daring oxide]

my eyes are like 80% progress done towards closing

and will be in dream land

dreaming of the 10 wow tokens i bought today at peak time for a grand price of 472,485g each

[rare moth]

Bro I stopped attacking the dummy and I've had 3 time anomaly combusts 😭 Why can't this happen in raids/mythics

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/gold-squadron-gif-21777233

[frail veldt]

thats mid gcd

the rotational swipe you see on sinister strike, between the eyes, kidney shot is my global cooldown

[rare moth]

WHY ARE THEY WATCHING ME

[gaunt phoenix]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1393269994623860887/nah.gif

[daring oxide]

nice phys comp

kick the hunter and get a shammy

[frail veldt]

ty this is just a vod from way earlier in season lol

just playing with homies

[daring oxide]

wait what do they change directions?

thats so funny

[rare moth]

Wait wait wait, im confused, is the highlighted 3M spell the one you're queueing?

[gaunt phoenix]

only for awang and no one else

[frail veldt]

wait can you distract the vents?

[daring oxide]

ahahah thats awang

[frail veldt]

no thats a wa

nothing is queued in that clip sorry leme find a time when I have something queued

I dont really visually track "queueing"

[gaunt phoenix]

no it just randomly turns for some reason

[lime lake]

the vents are npcs

so they turn if you get too close to them in stealth

[daring oxide]

lmao thats so funny

its even funnier because its awang

[gaunt phoenix]

well i dont think they do every time

[lime lake]

neither do npcs

[gaunt phoenix]

i see

[lime lake]

you have to be very close

[frail veldt]

Yeah I dont have the spell queue visually tracked

I think most outlaws dont

you just mash the button you want next lol

[daring oxide]

ok eyes shut gn

[lime lake]

idk if you can distract them though that would be worth trying

[rare moth]

Oh but yea I get that, we do that with mage, hold on, lemme see if I can "chain cast" sinister strike

[frail veldt]

you can spell queue instant casts yeah

if you just mash ss it will go off perfectly in sync with gcd

as long asyoure mashing at a faster frequency than your sqw

[lone spear]

for when workshop comes back in 4 years

[lime lake]

i just want to murder people

[rare moth]

Ok maybe its cuz Im low level but do yall wait for your energy to regen between buttons too?

[lone spear]

thats how u wanna spend ur last few days with killing(myself) spree?

[frail veldt]

energy starvation is an interesting thing on outlaw

[rare moth]

Because Im trying to visually see it

[gaunt phoenix]

at endgame energy is not really a concern

[rare moth]

Wdym?

[frail veldt]

its very feast or famine

[lone spear]

imma go on a world tour and record all the BS that happens so i can send it to anyone who says "i prefer the old KS" next season

[frail veldt]

when doing your rotation very well 95% of the time energy is ignored entirely

but if you have bad luck or you make some mistakes, you can quickly feel energy starved

but at low levels, energy runs out very fast

[rare moth]

😭 Dude, try mage with the "Fake it til you make it" I played my lvl 75 gnome frost mage and for an HOUR sitting there with Soleah, I never ran close to out of mana

[lone spear]

it for sure feels like an older version of enhance shaman, where sometimes you can just proc nothing and have to auto attack

which i personally dont like

[frail veldt]

its a very commonly observed painpoint for outlaws gameplay

[rare moth]

Oh that sounds fun ngl punishing for not doing it right? sounds like arcane

[lone spear]

i think it wont change to have energy never matter for us though

[frail veldt]

yeah thats sometimes accurate

but there are times where you play perfectly

and run out of energy

simply due to rng

those are the instances that people usually dont like

but theyre pretty rare

people tend to misattribute lack of skill to badluck though

[lone spear]

its most painful during crackshot

[frail veldt]

I would say 9/10 times energy starvation results from some amount of misplay

[lone spear]

i think theres too many factors to say definitively how often its cause of misplay

[frail veldt]

but yeah its similar to arcane where when youre out of aracne charges cuz you messed up and you have to cast the SLOWEST arcane blasts ever

[lone spear]

for example haste effects how much energy you have

[frail veldt]

feels fuckign horrible

[rare moth]

Ok maybe Ill see the SQW yall are referring to at end game, unless there's a video of this, cuz so far Im ngl, it reminds me of like Ninja Gaiden

[frail veldt]

similar to outlaw

[frail veldt]

yeah if 400 feels normal to you I would just stay there

[rare moth]

If you've ever played NG, Getting Ryu's combo's wrong will in fact kill you

[frail veldt]

as you play the spec more and you might notice the wrong ability go off than you intended then you could take a look at your sqw

[rare moth]

You have to get em right or he takes massive damage

[frail veldt]

but tbh if your sqw isnt bothering you then dont change it

[rare moth]

Idk if it is yet, Im only lvl 22

[frail veldt]

yeah and it sounds like youre accustomed to playing 400 on other specs

so I wouldnt mess with it for a while

[rare moth]

Unless outlaw is the "trial" spec for rogue?

Is it?

[frail veldt]

im not sure actually

I think in the trial you can chagne spec now right?

I thought you could trial all the specs if you wanted

once you get through the first few quests

im not sure what first spec it forces you to play when you do the trial on rogue

[rare moth]

Nope, assa

[frail veldt]

that makes sense

assa is definitely the easiest to learn of the 3

[rare moth]

Ironic, frost is the one for mage

Assa = frost

[frail veldt]

in terms of difficulty thats probably accurate

im not sure how the mage community views difficulty of fire vs arcane

but assa arguably has very high skill ceiling in m+

so while its easy to start on

its hard to master

[rare moth]

They view fire as the hardest because of the APM

[frail veldt]

I think each of the rogue specs thinks of themselves uniquely

[rare moth]

They view Frost as hard because they think its "too much" in comparison to arcane and fire

[frail veldt]

like outlaws think theyre the hardest but there are things about outlaw that are easy compared to assa or sub like cooldown management

[rare moth]

And they view arcane as stupid easy because of the Porom WA

[frail veldt]

oh thats wild

from the outside frost was alwayss the easy one to me

Ive played some mage

arcane felt the most compelling in terms of difficulty

[rare moth]

It is wild cuz the ONLY REASON arcane is easy is cuz of a WA

[frail veldt]

but I didnt use this WA you mention

ah

interesting

[rare moth]

It just says "barrage now" when you have any of the requirements to barrage

[random obsidian]

how long did it take for you guys to become "comfortable" playing current outlaw?

[rare moth]

So you don't think about your rotation too hard

[gaunt phoenix]

like the month of bfa prepatch

[rare moth]

TBF fire mage only manages 1 CD So that is kinda easy

[torpid fiber]

I think outlaw is easy bc I can turn my brain off and not manage cds 🙂

[gaunt phoenix]

well thats not current outlaw at all

i cant read

[lime lake]

[torpid fiber]

it kinda is tbf
outlaw has just had a ton of iterative changes

[frail veldt]

hard to say cuz I was kinda in the thick of it when outlaw got reworked in S3

so I learned it as the discord was developing the rotation

[torpid fiber]

it's not like we went from bfa outlaw to current outlaw in one big leap, it was a bunch of small/medium changes every season for 3 expacs straight

[random obsidian]

i'm asking because, i'm doing alright with base outlaw (think DF s3)

but all the trickster shit

[frail veldt]

we def went from S2 to S3 in one big leap

[random obsidian]

just doesnt click

[frail veldt]

ah

so S3 to trickster

[torpid fiber]

s2 to s3 was a big leap but also i was playing kir in both and so it wasn't that hard for me in a sense

[frail veldt]

trickster did take a little bit of time to get used to

[torpid fiber]

HO has always been too big of a leap for my brain to properly get down

[frail veldt]

is it mainly the unseen blade mechanic thats giving you trouble?

[random obsidian]

It's like the added cognitive load is too much, for a spec that already has so much going on

[frail veldt]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[frail veldt]

theres a really good unseen blade tracker there

that can help ease the coggy L

[gaunt phoenix]

at least next tier you can get away with fatebound everywhere

[frail veldt]

also that yeah

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe not at the highest level of M+

[random obsidian]

Well the fact that I want to be using KS nearly on cd, but I have to think about if it's safe to use, then I have to keep track of UB procs to not waste coup procs but I also have to not vanish if KS cd is low

[frail veldt]

yeaaah

I agree its a lot

thankfully all that hard work and sweat and blood is thrown out the window for mastering KS next season lol

[torpid fiber]

thankfully ks is going to stop killing you in 2 days

[random obsidian]

sometimes I mismanaged UB procs, but then it feels awful being low cp with Coup and stuck between "do I SS? but i waste UB procs, do I send at low cp?"

[frail veldt]

are you the one who said they play 400ms and just time thier gcd

[random obsidian]

it just feels unintuitive idk if you get me

[frail veldt]

or was that vurai

it is

for sure

[torpid fiber]

yeah that's me
but it's "i don't have to time it bc it's 400ms" but yeah no mashing

[frail veldt]

the #outlaw-faq covers what to do there though

[random obsidian]

yeh dw i spent a lot of time reading all that

i just wanted to feel validated

in the struggle

[frail veldt]

its def awkard

[torpid fiber]

i know there's at least one other person here who plays 400ms and doesn't mash but idr who

[frail veldt]

theres a lot of competing priorities

and those priorities can feel crowded

[random obsidian]

imo s3 DF was very smooth outlaw

[frail veldt]

healthiest hands in the outlaw community

[torpid fiber]

i wish LOL

[random obsidian]

and trickster doenst add good gameplay

[frail veldt]

fatebound outlaw plays very very similar

[torpid fiber]

i have wrist issues but they're all for reasons unrelated to outlaw

[gaunt phoenix]

both trees are pretty wack in their own ways, maybe they get replaced next xpac

[frail veldt]

yeah too much jorkin?

[torpid fiber]

i played too much dead cells or some shit
idk i was just not taking care of them at all and getting pisslow sleep for years

[random obsidian]

yeah but isnt it kinda shit in m+? i usually aim for title so it might not be that great of an alternative

[torpid fiber]

wrists got fucked

i'm doing my wrist exercises literally rn

[frail veldt]

sleeps bigggg

[frail veldt]

next season its better

but yeah if youre pushign title trickster is gona prob be better

[gaunt phoenix]

yea i wouldnt go fatebound for title

[frail veldt]

personally I found the UB stack system to be a fun minigame

it flows pretty well once you get the hang of it

you almost always do KS->coup->vanish->repeat

[random obsidian]

I wouldnt mind if it wasnt on top of like 5 spinning plates

[gaunt phoenix]

its just so strong at st that it looks similar in dungeony sims

[frail veldt]

like 9/10 times you can keep that cadence

[frail veldt]

sure yeah

are you also playing KiR then?

[random obsidian]

yup

[frail veldt]

yeaaah

[random obsidian]

I enjoy KiR so I have no issue with that

[frail veldt]

1pt fth?

[random obsidian]

2 fth

[frail veldt]

ah

thats good at least haha

[torpid fiber]

sleep is SO big, for like 2 years after i initially fucked up my wrists i was on like 5-7h sleep per day and now i consistently get 7.25-8.5h a day and I can legit feel the difference btwn 7 and 8 hours

[random obsidian]

i want to swap to 1 but im too used to 2

[frail veldt]

in college I just fucked my sleep by overconsuming caffeine for fucking years

4-5 hours a night

was horrendous

I feel WORLDS better now sleeping 7-8+ every night

[torpid fiber]

thankfully i don't do caffeine i was just staying up too late on discord

[lime lake]

yeah i would never do that

[frail veldt]

yeah I mean the UB stuff is another plate for sure but I think its reasonably manageable with the right wa setup

[lime lake]

[torpid fiber]

real talk i think everyone should try to get 7.5h+ sleep per night for a week and then they'll realise they're trolling so hard by not doing that forever

[frail veldt]

sounds like less hours playing wow

[random obsidian]

yeh i already yoinked the WA you're thinking of

i just dont think about it enough i guess

[frail veldt]

it helps a lot

[torpid fiber]

oh i hadn't considered that average person doesn't already have limited wow hours per day due to wrist issues

how quickly i forget

[frail veldt]

essentially on the wa, if you have stacks of UB then prio SS as your builder

if you have coup ready or you have it soon(3 stacks and have UB ready) then delay vanish to get a coup off

[random obsidian]

you get 2 stacks after KS, probably 1 with the cd of UB, where does the 4th come from? rng?

[frail veldt]

theres no 4th

3 is max

[random obsidian]

what

[frail veldt]

for the "free" UB

do you mean EB?

escalating blade is the thing that builds up to coup

[random obsidian]

yeah

that

[frail veldt]

unseen blade is the proc that creates a stack of EB

[random obsidian]

yeh i'm talking about that

[frail veldt]

KS gives you 2 free UB procs

but you still have to press SS

to generate the EB stack

[gaunt phoenix]

it's rng

[random obsidian]

2 EB guaranteed after KS
1 from the natural CD of UB

so the 4th has to be rng?

[gaunt phoenix]

your auto attacks have a chance to reset the natural cd

[random obsidian]

ok ok so you don't always get a guaranteed coup after KS

[frail veldt]

KS doesnt give you EB

it gives you free UB

[random obsidian]

yeh i know i mean

it translates into 2 EB

but you have to SS

[frail veldt]

so after KS you almost always want to press SS at least twice

[gaunt phoenix]

i think they are aware

[frail veldt]

but yeah the 4th could come from the cd naturally resetting or the auto attack reset that solo is mentioning

[random obsidian]

but lets say you have KS back, 3 stacks of EB, do you send KS, get to 4 EB, send Coup and keep going?

[frail veldt]

yeah

[random obsidian]

Ok i think its starting to make sense now

[frail veldt]

if youre at 3 stacks eb

press KS

then press SS

then youll have a coup ready

[random obsidian]

[frail veldt]

you want to consume that coup before you press SS again

cuz you will waste your other "free" UB procs

since you cant overstack EB

yeah honestly the more we talk about this its reminding me how confusing the system is hahaha

I swear it feels good once you get used to it

lol

oh wait the UB tracker in the !wa thing isnt the one I was thinking of

theres one from zac thats better

[lime lake]

idk why you're struggling with this

foup rhymes with coup

you should be a natural

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[torpid fiber]

maybe it's pronounced "foop"

[frail veldt]

as opposed to?

coup is pronounced coop

[lime lake]

well it rhymes with coup so its foo

[frail veldt]

isnt it?

oh wait

im so dumb

its coo

[lime lake]

[frail veldt]

lol

[torpid fiber]

no to be fair it'[s a stupidass word

[frail veldt]

COOP DE GRASE

[torpid fiber]

we stole it but didn't fix it to be a good word

[frail veldt]

blame the zacs

how do yall pronounce main gauche

[torpid fiber]

main gauche

[frail veldt]

man goesh is how ive found when I looked it up

but I feel like a douche saying it that way

[torpid fiber]

i think you pronounce the main do you not

[frank finch]

main gooch

[torpid fiber]

am i insane

i just don't talk about outlaw mastery much tbh

[lime lake]

real

[torpid fiber]

bruh

[frank finch]

ghosh like josh

eeww

[frail veldt]

no

[lime lake]

mahn ghosh its steve austin with a steel chair

[frail veldt]

I thought it was ghosh as is in to "go" to the store + "sh"

mahn "go"sh

where are the frenchies

[solemn drift]

https://youtu.be/EJtQzPS4haI?si=Y0dtSrYieNvsX8r6

[frail veldt]

bro

the lenght

of the intro

[solemn drift]

He's French

[frail veldt]

okay so its mahn goe-sh

[torpid fiber]

i will just be refusing to say it that way

[frail veldt]

LOL

I will be saying mein gucci

[solemn drift]

Mayne gousch

[torpid fiber]

I've been avoiding being racist the entire rest of my life so I am able to intentionally mispronounce french words without getting called out on it

[solemn drift]

Or gou-che, like touche

[random obsidian]

outlaw really is the french spec

[frail veldt]

Many pirates were French I think

[proven ocean]

Ok

[random obsidian]

i only know Charles Vane, who was british iirc

[lime lake]

who the fuck are any of these people

french pirates kinda suck

[frail veldt]

I mean I think it was mainly Britain France Spain and Portugal back then?

[neat mist]

fr fr

Where's Eustace the Rogue?

[frail veldt]

Google is telling me Spain was often the victim of pirating due to their gold and silver transportation

[craggy barn]

holy netease is banning boosting

[lime lake]

ye

england was also famous for hiring pirates to fuck with the spanish

a lot of famous pirates were privateers

[frail veldt]

The corsairs were state authorized pirates apparently

Via France

[lone nebula]

good morning
short question, did a break in S2 and want to play again in S3
will the head enchant (Visions) and and the belt played in S3 ?

[craggy barn]

enchant no

belt yes

[lone nebula]

alright, thx

[torpid fiber]

i'm sure no one will just read the headline and assume the statement says something it doesn't

[random obsidian]

belt is really fast to get

like 1h tops

[frail veldt]

Oh God really?

I never got that

[lone nebula]

perfect

[craggy barn]

i think it only gets beaten by mythic belt for us?

[lime lake]

[frail veldt]

Oh I thought even s2 the belt wasn't bis

Cuz they did some nerfs to it

[torpid fiber]

at least from my read-through of the translation it's unclear if they're banning boosting for gold or only account sharing boosting/rmt stuff

[craggy barn]

maybe i just know we do eventually replace it

[frail veldt]

What game is netease

[vivid vessel]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/disciplinary-action-against-over-27-000-players-leads-to-stricter-anti-boost-and-377998

[frail veldt]

Aaaaaah

China wow

[torpid fiber]

I do think banning boosting is probably a good thing for the game

[vivid vessel]

Did they just make it illegal to boost in china or

[torpid fiber]

I think it's super unclear

[frail veldt]

Yeah seems like it

I mean

[torpid fiber]

.

[frail veldt]

I'm fine with it tbh

[torpid fiber]

Account sharing is the focus of these measures, and any behavior involving account sharing may be suspecting of violating regulations.

[random obsidian]

Wasnt it like a whole economy in China?

[frank finch]

so my gold worth a little more now?

[frail veldt]

Be a hard stance to take that boosting is good for the game

[frail veldt]

Or less since you can't buy boosts with it

Lol

[frank finch]

[torpid fiber]

my understanding is that cn had/has a huge account sharing boosting issue where ppl paid to get boosted where the boosters would legit just log into their account and play for them

[craggy barn]

shrug so far they said they only actioned at least 27000 accs

[frail veldt]

Only

Lol

[vivid vessel]

I mean without boosting how do normal people make gold tbf

[frail veldt]

?

[vivid vessel]

Making gold in wow is super degenerate

[frail veldt]

Beo

[vivid vessel]

Without boosting

[frail veldt]

"normal" people don't make money from boosts

[random obsidian]

they pay eartly access and farm plants 2-3 days

[frail veldt]

Normal people do professions and world quests

[vivid vessel]

Ye they do a lot of raider and shit make gold from boosting

[frail veldt]

That's not a normal player...

[vivid vessel]

Ye im talking about people that play the game normally

[lime lake]

no abnormal gamers allowed

[torpid fiber]

the average player doesn't mythic raid i'm sorry to inform you

[vivid vessel]

Not degenerate that afk doing professions and hv

[frail veldt]

You're talking about the people who play the game he most

Which is literally abnormal

By definition

[vivid vessel]

Ye the guys that play the actual game

[random obsidian]

my not so hardcore friends sell m+ boosts to earn gold

[lime lake]

the majority of players get some gold from weeklies and shit and thats all they need

[past sphinx]

zac hows outlaw comparing to sub/assa next szn?

[vivid vessel]

Worse

[past sphinx]

rlly?

[frail veldt]

Y'all forget sometimes that the median player doesn't have aotc

[past sphinx]

where are we lacking

[vivid vessel]

AOE st prio

[lime lake]

delves

[vivid vessel]

Everything

[frail veldt]

Ain't nothing normal about selling boosts

[vivid vessel]

Xd

[past sphinx]

yay

[vivid vessel]

How am I going to make gold

[frail veldt]

You aren't

[craggy barn]

theyre actioning against the specific 1% market

[frail veldt]

And that's okay

[vivid vessel]

No it's not okay lol

I think you don't know how much it cost

To play wow

To do m+ and raid

[frail veldt]

But I also play wow

[vivid vessel]

To buy consumables and shit

[frail veldt]

Buy less

[craggy barn]

it looks like they just want to ban boosting for the "esports" side of things

[vivid vessel]

Without boosting it's litteraly impossible

[craggy barn]

so u can still make gold boosting 12s

[vivid vessel]

Buy less what

[frail veldt]

Do more professions

[lime lake]

maybe you should just pull yourself up by your bootstraps

[torpid fiber]

I do think zac has a point here that the economy is fucked up in terms of cost to raid

[vivid vessel]

Just don't buy consumables or what

[frail veldt]

Maybe don't use r3 consumables every time

[lime lake]

spend less on avocado toast

[vivid vessel]

What

[frail veldt]

Use r2

[vivid vessel]

[craggy barn]

raid sales are gone

[frail veldt]

Or don't use them for bosses that you don't need them on lol

[craggy barn]

and chinese m+ teams cant just get free mythic raid gear now

[frank finch]

wait does this impct buying like mythic raid boost

[torpid fiber]

I think the solution is that like. Provide mythic raiders a way to get a lot of gold/resources or something

[frail veldt]

That's how a lot of people play the game Zac lololol

[craggy barn]

yes

[frail veldt]

You're asking for enough money so that you can afford everything at all times at max rank 24/7

[frank finch]

this is only in china right

[craggy barn]

china raid sales are done

yes

[frank finch]

lol

oh ok

[vivid vessel]

Ye of course

[torpid fiber]

like the problem here is that the entire economy and profession setup rn assumes that raiders have a lot of gold to spend because of boosting, but if that's not the case then it completely fucks up raiding because it's not like potions are going to get much cheaper

[frail veldt]

Yeah also it don't matter Zac youre safe

[craggy barn]

this is literally nuking the 1% market

nothing here says its nuking all of boosting

[vivid vessel]

Mewo

[craggy barn]

just title stuff

[vivid vessel]

Ye I know I'm safe

Just talking hypothetical

[gaunt phoenix]

Boosting for gold is completely nuked in china?

[lime lake]

just dont be chinese and you're fine

[vivid vessel]

I think this is probably only for RMT also

Just idk

[nova sinew]

Is it just rmt or

[torpid fiber]

unclear imo

[vivid vessel]

They didn't clarify

[frail veldt]

Gold boosts too

It seems

[torpid fiber]

yeah i also read this as RMT/account sharing stuff only

[nova sinew]

I think they also mentioned specifically account sharing as well

[lime lake]

it doesnt seem to mention gold anywhere

[torpid fiber]

it specifies "illict boosts"

[lime lake]

i do think its probably just rmt

[frail veldt]

Yeah acc sharing seems to be the big one

But isn't that already very against tos

Even though all rwf guilds use it

[nova sinew]

One thing that points to gold is then explicitly mentioning CE boosting

[frail veldt]

But in pvp you get banned in a heartbeat for acc sharing

Like insanely fast

[lime lake]

is there any evidence that rwf guilds account share though

[torpid fiber]

they are right though that the ideal world is they ban boosting and also make it so high end players aren't gigafucked by them doing that

[lime lake]

like they definitely used to, and talk frequently about how they used to

[frail veldt]

Max talked about it in s1

[torpid fiber]

I don't think rwf guilds account share rn

[lime lake]

but i tend to believe it when they say they dont anymore

[frail veldt]

When other teams were exploiting

[lime lake]

yeah he said they havent done it in years

[frail veldt]

I remember him saying the opposite

[lime lake]

but he also said he wonders if they could get away with it

[craggy barn]

holy

[frail veldt]

That "everyone does it for rwf"

[torpid fiber]

nah I also recall him saying they haven't done it in ages

[frail veldt]

Ah

[lime lake]

nah he explicitly has said multiple times they stopped doing it after people got banned in legion

[frail veldt]

I def got the opposite impression lol

[lime lake]

and while obviously he could be lying i do tend to believe this one

[torpid fiber]

he was specifically calling out how CN still did account sharing for boosts and stuff but outside of cn there's way less of a culture of doing that bc of previous crackdowns

[frail veldt]

Also p sure people have caught team liquid characters online and farming when the players are literally on stream not standing at their pcs

So idk

[lime lake]

he brought up that being possible as a reason why they dont do it

[frail veldt]

I would REALLY doubt they aren't acc sharing

[lime lake]

because getting caught that way would be silly

lmao

[torpid fiber]

I think rwf players are likely to be doing anything up to and including things that can get them a rollback/3 day ban and nothing more

[craggy barn]

there might be leeway when ur literally playing with people in the same room lol

[frail veldt]

There's no reason they would force their players to stay awake and do heroic splits instead of just acc share

[craggy barn]

account sharing could be specific to sharing account information and details

[frail veldt]

Yeah but even that's technically against tos

Afaik

[craggy barn]

wahts in the tos

[torpid fiber]

The reason is that they'd get permad

[frail veldt]

not if the chars on are on burner accounts

like

theres so many ways around this

from a competitive standpoint theres no reason they wouldnt be doing it

theres a reason the guilds tend to exploit even at risk of bans

[torpid fiber]

You're assuming blizzard would be unwilling to tie the burner accounts to mains

[lime lake]

brother if someone got banned for account sharing it wouldnt matter if its a burner, the person accused would be banned on any account they try to play

plus potentially blacklisted from official events like mdi

[frail veldt]

I mean you dont even legally have to tie an account to a person

so you definitely could subvert that

[torpid fiber]

Blizzard don't have to prove anything to ban you

[frail veldt]

they wouldnt even know who "you" are

what

other than by IP

which is at a gaming building

there is no "you"

in this situation

they could do every race with brand new accounts all under the name zeross

lol

[torpid fiber]

Don't like 80% of rwf raiders stream their pov

[vivid vessel]

I don't think they can detect ingame boosting anyway

[lime lake]

and then turn on their stream, immediately be noticed and banned

[craggy barn]

there could be a legal difference here between physically sharing an account vs giving away ur account info

[vivid vessel]

I'm allowed to get a friend trough a resil key right

[frail veldt]

what by facial recognition?

lol

like

[lime lake]

?

[frail veldt]

this is a stretch guys cmon

[vivid vessel]

And he is allowed to give me some good to support me in my endeavours

[craggy barn]

zac are u in china

[vivid vessel]

No but

[lime lake]

idk you're like imagining that if blizzard found out liquid or echo (or an ip associated with their buildings however you want to explain it) was account sharing they just

[vivid vessel]

I considered moving to china to start a business

Thoughts