outlaw

[balmy topaz]

That crit trinket off 2nd boss

Where are trinket sims solo

[gaunt phoenix]

st https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6UktaAmK2C5Qr1fZV1ncrk

slice https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4i5KKvx1g6cwDGP2dEC56G

[covert heart]

Not 2 big of a gap atleast

[balmy topaz]

What was the change to sigil was it positive or negative

[gaunt phoenix]

Idk

[balmy topaz]

Prism will be better for dmg amp bosses then

[long barn]

Can anyone explain why Trickster feels clumsy, clunky, crowded, I dunno. Any of those words now

[quaint mauve]

for me clunky means the rotation feels awkward

like i don’t like the 2 coup thing

[royal ermine]

because 1fth feels like giga ass when you don't have bs

[balmy topaz]

Is it like with the rotation you find there’s a mixture of spells to press but you’re struggling to know which one is classed as the correct one? Or struggling to build in some scenarios

[royal ermine]

also antenna bis thats wack

[cinder relic]

Because trickster adds a lot of "stuff" to track and monitor

[royal ermine]

trinket feels like it either procs a stupid amount at once or never

[cinder relic]

Baby's first proc trinket

[balmy topaz]

Are you a fan of trickster or not really guy?

[cinder relic]

Not really

[balmy topaz]

Yea neither

[cinder relic]

I prefer fatebound to trickster for outlaw

Since fatebound actively does nothing

It leaves more room for the spec to be a spec

and not like, tracking procs within procs for windows and blah blah blah

[balmy topaz]

Coup is just strange idk

[vivid vessel]

its ub for me

[quaint mauve]

fb feels infinitely better in ptr imo

[balmy topaz]

Double couping just strange

[vivid vessel]

being forced to ss

but you dont wanna sss

you are like

[cinder relic]

Ya the tier set feels so fucking good for fatebound

[vivid vessel]

cucking yourself

perma

[balmy topaz]

Yeah I think that’s my problem tbh

[vivid vessel]

to press ss

when you shouldnt

[cinder relic]

My hope is that fatebounds capstone gets reworked from just providing flat agi, to what the 4 set does

Or both idrc

[quaint mauve]

ima just be playing it in all content

[vivid vessel]

my hope is that they make fatebound a nroaml hero talent

im all for the

better in st

better in aoe thing

but this is silly

[balmy topaz]

I won’t ever play FB in the current iteration

[vivid vessel]

you shouldnt lose st in aoe

and you shouldnt have legit negative aoe scaling

[balmy topaz]

Ye

[cinder relic]

I get what they were going for making these aoe procs, have some value in ST

but it ends up feeling worse

Its the same way that in original wow there was a system where the more you played, the less EXP you got, which later got reworked into the rested EXP system

The psychology of "more targets in range means less ST damage" doesn't feel good

[vivid vessel]

ye

im fine with haviung stuffs that scale worse in aoe

but i shouldnt lose st in aoe

and fatebound is also silly in the aoe scaling where its just so bad

but ye

[vast frost]

I wish I knew what they were thinking about when designing it to work like that

[vivid vessel]

same thing with ks

rework

why

[vast frost]

was complaining from sin perspective but mostly just how on paper fatebound is just kinda evil

deathstalker has mechanical issues, but fatebound talents have just feelsbad design

[vivid vessel]

yepo

[vast frost]

i have played basically zero outlaw in tww, but outside of KS memes does trickster have any pain points?

other than it proccing in subterfuge or w/e

[cinder relic]

Depends how you define pain points

It adds layers of complexity which if you like, is cool

[keen belfry]

tricksters a sick tree, it just requires you to press SS at times you otherwie wouldnt

good tree tho

fatebound is the worst hero tree of all the specs ive played throughout TWW so far

by a fair bit

[novel socket]

It's an afk hero talent.

[cinder relic]

I really hate slayer for warrior

[keen belfry]

its worse than this

[cinder relic]

Both fury and arms

[keen belfry]

its an afk hero tree that you only interact with in annoying ways

[cinder relic]

Sounds like slayer

[vast frost]

if rogue was a more popualr spec they would have probably turned deathmark into a gcd that does basically zero damage on a 10s cd

[keen belfry]

only thing i know about fury is they do 65% of outlaw dps in they keys ive been in them with

[quaint mauve]

i wish

[vivid vessel]

• ub procs are delayed (up to 1s btw)
• the whole ub minigame is hidden which is shit
• you are forced to press sinister strike blind and a lot of times, which we dont want, like i have ps procs bf ready and shit and this stupid talent will force me to press ss
• escalating blades doesnt go above 4, so when you are at coup, you cant press ss anymore otherwise you overcap
• killing spree generate full cp now, but it also gives you 2 up, so you are at max cp and have to spend 2 ub with ss, which is super awkard since you have to finish first, slow down the whole cycle so you end up having to do a bunch of finishers before being able to do nroaml stuffs sometimes its weird af
• coup require fazed to be on the target, except fazed is basically a st only debuff that can fall off + if you target swap/your target die, with coup ready you are just stcuk not being able to press coup its cringe

[keen belfry]

why does coup require fazed

is that some "skill expression"

[cinder relic]

Sin - Deathstalker is basically perfect imo. Fatebound auto procing capstone with the tier set makes the hero talent feel way better overall. It also giving sin access to 1:30 CDs is cool
Outlaw - I personally dislike Trickster but I don't hate it objectively. Similar vibe to sin Fatebound. Auto procing the tier set is so good but the losing ST with multi target is bad
Sub - Deathstalker doesn't really work for Sub well, despite it being way easier to proc than sin in target swap situations. Trickster sub is literal perfection

[vivid vessel]

ye idk

[vital wave]

It gives stack of flawless form

[keen belfry]

i worded poorly

[vivid vessel]

its so you have interactions between the nodes

[keen belfry]

i know why its more of a

[vivid vessel]

but it jkust makes it bad

[keen belfry]

why do they design it that way

my guess is skill expression idk

[vast frost]

kinda surprised that they went so far is KS rework

[keen belfry]

but like, is that skill expression

[vivid vessel]

dude ks rework is one of the worse shit i have ever seen

if that was a new spell instead of reworking the worse spell in the game

it would be 9/11

its so cooked

[keen belfry]

ye ks is really really bad

[vivid vessel]

super long channel

cant kick cant cc during it

rng targeting

[vast frost]

tbh if i had to do work on rogue as the like, spriest class designer, because it was my turn to look at it

[glass mortar]

its for skill expression, and by skill expression we mean its to punish u if the game ever forces u to swap targets

[vivid vessel]

interact weirdly with trickster (its trickster whole driver btw)

[vast frost]

i'd have just made KS fart its damage out in a starfall like buff

and called it a day

[glass mortar]

we used to basically not care at all cause kspree would keep aoe fazed applied to the pack like 80% of the time anyway

[keen belfry]

i think just make KS flurry and shorter channel and id be very ok

[vast frost]

legit don't get this one

[glass mortar]

ks does flurry

[vivid vessel]

ks should be real aoe and be 100% aoe

idk

[vast frost]

could easily just be ur target + things around it

[vivid vessel]

so there isnt that issue

or just be like ww thing

where its full damage ro your target and then aoe the rest idk

or just a normal spell

if they dont wanna bother man

idk

[fallow fractal]

ok cause no one answered how is outlaw compared to sub/assa season 3

[frail veldt]

You don't mind the restriction of only applying the mark from stealth? Or having the mark disappear mid pack and forcing a vanish

[vivid vessel]

he doesnt do keys where its relevant

[frail veldt]

Ah

[vivid vessel]

he said it before

[keen belfry]

its the same they all do their niche things

[frail veldt]

Yeah cuz that's kind of a big deal

[vivid vessel]

worse in m+

no one knows in raid

but historically

i wouldnt bet on outlaw in raid

[fallow fractal]

Sadge

[vivid vessel]

lets say

[cinder relic]

Nope

[vast frost]

i do enjoy the tier fatebound interaction of being able to force edge cases in burst, but after that its pretty w/e

[cinder relic]

I have 0 issue with deathstalker in keys that I do

I don't push keys I do my weekly 12s

I apply death mark to a target, i hit it, it dies, i go next

[frail veldt]

But wouldn't it be better if it didn't have that restriction?

[cinder relic]

Yeah but then it wouldnt be cool

[vivid vessel]

what

can legit just be a buff

what does it change

[cinder relic]

Deathstalker mark?

the entire theme of the hero talent?

[frail veldt]

I think leaving combat should give you a buff such that your next mutilate applies the mark

[cinder relic]

Its suppose to be you hit 1 target, and then you have singular focus which turns to funnel

Thats literally the entire point of the hero talent

[frail veldt]

I think that would be objectively better than the ambush system

[cinder relic]

If it was a buff, it wouldnt be that anymore

[frail veldt]

It can be a debuff still

But you shouldn't have the chance of getting fucked outside of your control

Like if an AOE breaks you from stealth before you ambush

[vast frost]

as i said before, could just get the lazy fix and make it a unique gcd to apply it

[stiff vector]

I like how the fb tier set is basically just a bandaid fix for them failing to fix fatebounds capstone the entire xpac and it just being poorly designed/taking too long to proc sometimes as well

[vivid vessel]

it can just read as doing the damage to the target idk what the issue would be

[cinder relic]

The only actual issue I have with deathstalker atm is when you die when you have darkest night, when a target "dies" but doesnt die, and then when it fully bugs out, which in my experience, almost never happens

[keen belfry]

yeah im assuming this bandaid fix will enter the actual tree in some way

midnight fixes

[cinder relic]

Ik it being a buff is literally better in every way to a debuff in every single situation, but the vibes just arent the same

[vivid vessel]

it happens 100% of the time if you kill a target with the dispatch that apply mark

[cinder relic]

And I can't articulate that to u

[royal ermine]

I've had bosses this expansion where it didn't even proc at all that's just awful design lol

[keen belfry]

man

fatebound

[cinder relic]

I did almost all my keys this tier after the sin buffs, on sin and I was doing 10 a week

I legit never noticed this happening

[keen belfry]

actuially made me stop playing outlaw in s1

[vivid vessel]

i mean good for you but its 100% reproducible

or at least was in s1

and im not aware of it being fixed

[frail veldt]

Yeah even if it feels infrequent if you can solve it without negative side effects then shouldn't you?

[vivid vessel]

idk

[vast frost]

very avoidable but the IPA adds would often steal my mark if I accidently gave it to them

[cinder relic]

Not always

[vivid vessel]

im of the opinion that having bad gameplay implications

is never worth

the lore

of the thing

[glass mortar]

guy has articulated several times it would lose flavor and he puts value in the flavor of it tying you to a target

[vivid vessel]

i know you think the them is cool and shit

[cinder relic]

Every single debuff in this game would be made "better" and "remove negative side effects" by making it a buff

[stiff vector]

oh yeah happened plenty of times to me during prog in s1, or it would take like 4 or 5 min to proc and its just so cringe.

[frail veldt]

Well I'm not even arguing for it not being a debuff

I just want to be able to apply it if it bugs out or I don't get my ambush off

I don't see a good argument for not fixing that

[cinder relic]

I think if shadowstrike can apply DSM then blindside procs should be able to apply DSM

[vivid vessel]

ddue

garotte should apply it

thats it

idk why that isnt a thing

[frail veldt]

That'd be fine with me though being forced to take a talent that isn't mainline to fix a bug isn't really a good solution

Yeah garrote should that'd be smarter

[cinder relic]

I think a hero talent forcing you to take talents is chill and normal

[frail veldt]

But you are forced to take it to fix a bug

Lol

That's not normal

Or chill

It's like if we had to talent into cold blood to fix the coin over stacking past 7 and not getting the fatebound buff

That would not be normal

Or chill

[cinder relic]

Ur acting as though blindside is a bad sin talent

Most builds take blindside

Even full aoe bleed build takes blindside rn

[stiff vector]

ye idk I never liked the fact you had to proc it with ambush from stealth for assa, not only is it disruptive to what sin usually wants to do from stealth but it obviously has serious conflicts design wise when it comes to losing your mark(whether it be due to something like a boss phasing or an intermission or w/e) and target swapping.

[frail veldt]

Yeah I mean the negatives are less prevalent if the talent is luckily in the meta builds but that's not always the case

[cinder relic]

Managing your mark is part of the skill of the hero talent in raid :)

[frail veldt]

I'm talking about m+

[stiff vector]

raid it usually isnt a problem

[frail veldt]

Agreed

[keen belfry]

skill expressions can be cringe and stupid, we were literally talking about coup + fazed interaction

[cinder relic]

We are talking about deathstalker rn

[frail veldt]

I think playing around a bug isn't the kind of skill expression most people enjoy

[keen belfry]

oh i though you were tlaking about fatebounds deathstalkers mark my bad

[frail veldt]

I did not like when we had to play around subterfuge bugs

[cinder relic]

I mean idk

I'm sure its repeatable

But I'm just speaking from my experience doing keys to fill vaults

Just 10-12s

I had very few issues with DSM

[frail veldt]

Yeah I think when the stakes are higher and the mark bugs

And it impacts a key strongly

[cinder relic]

Pushing keys is noob content

[frail veldt]

Lol

[cinder relic]

designing the game around push keys

[royal ermine]

guy are you still playing poe league

[frail veldt]

I'm just asking for non bugged talents

[vivid vessel]

guy love having shit takes

[cinder relic]

Not anymore. I need to play like, another few hours to do the last like 3 challenges

[frail veldt]

Feel like it's a low bar

Tbh

[wintry solar]

Pve is noob content. Don't step in bad and do your rotation. Ggez

[vivid vessel]

dude will defend poop

[vast frost]

I get the skill expression argument about target swapping with it, but darkest night is a pretty binary effect

[frail veldt]

I mean again if im being optimistic I'm sure the devs are understaffed and poorly managed

[stiff vector]

Guys takes are never wrong and always good

[cinder relic]

truth nuke

[keen belfry]

hes only defending it cuz this discord disagrees with it

[finite arch]

!ambush

[ornate heath]

It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[keen belfry]

ForeverContrarian

[cinder relic]

I mean playing sin on a fight like queen forces you to make judgement calls on when to stop cycling your deathstalker mark and save DN for platforms

[royal ermine]

guess I'll just throw it in the thread then, I was just giving away currency from like first few weeks so it's only 30d and a few pieces to pawn off cuz I have to uninstall the game for space

[wintry solar]

It's also possible that changes need to go through a meeting and it's really a beaurocratic mess to make any changes.

[royal ermine]

figured I'd ask

[frail veldt]

But if I'm being a pessimist the devs are embarrassing excuses for "programmers" who hopefully never venture out of video games cuz their shoddy work is probably only passable here

[cinder relic]

I'm not defending anything specifically, all I'm saying is in my experience doing my noob keys for filling my fault, I rarely ran into issues related to DSM tweaking out

[cinder relic]

Ty king 🐐

[vast frost]

I get that but judgement is to just leave ur hero taletn disabled for a bit

[dawn talon]

corporate code is even worse

you'd vomit reading it

i think the gamer soyrage protects us from the worst of it

[frail veldt]

Yeah but that's not everyone's experience haha I don't even play assa much but I acknowledge the stories of the players who do

[keen belfry]

i work at a healthcare company on the tech side and the codebase is such a mess i love it

im not very good at writing code so i dont mind it as much as our senior people

[cinder relic]

My honest opinion is that a lot of people will have 1-3 bad experiences with a thing and then dedicate their life to acting as though this is the case in 99% of instances when its closer to like, 1-5%

[frail veldt]

I think that's overly dismissive

[cinder relic]

Maybe

I think ppl are very dramatic

[vast frost]

obviously the real solution is to just make pressing SnD apply the mark to whatever ur targeting

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe keep this to yourself

[frail veldt]

Lol sorry I usually do

[vast frost]

cut to the chase is so stupid

[frail veldt]

Yeah but isn't the downside of believing those peoples experience less bad than just assuming they're always being dramatic and ignoring them?

[keen belfry]

cut to the chase is goated no?

[wintry solar]

I blame crackshot

[blissful zinc]

should i replace the weapons with 681 crafted? and how are the stats

[frail veldt]

Gotta give the doomers the benefit of the doubt sometimes

[cinder relic]

No because if the devs always believed people outlaw would be uncapped BF, 90% cleave damage, it would have a cooldown too

[gaunt phoenix]

yes, you should craft a mainhand, use capo offhand

[frail veldt]

There's a middle ground haha we're talking about a bugged hero talents

[cinder relic]

I always tend to target zac with comments like this, but I remember when Outlaw got the BF fixed and he told me straight up "Outlaw is still bottom 10 specs in the game for keys"

[frail veldt]

Not making outlaw SSS tier every season

[vast frost]

i feel like having a passive that automatically upkeeps a buff without even needing to gain it is very silly

[cinder relic]

Ppl are silly gooses sometimes

[frail veldt]

Yeah I just think we should advocate for the bugs being fixed

I don't think that's asking too much

[finite arch]

any mog enjoyers?

[frail veldt]

Like asking the devs to make every gameplay change we think we want is silly

[wintry solar]

No. I don't mog anything ever

[keen belfry]

ill live with bugs if it means they fix KS and fatebound, thank you

[frail veldt]

But wanting the cornerstone of your hero tree to function correctly is pretty reasonable

[blissful zinc]

like this? anything else to better my overall build?

[stiff vector]

I mean youll be able to get a similar ilvl weapon from like m0s this week I think, and be able to get higher ilvl weapon very easily in a week from even like a +5

[dawn talon]

i mean the thing is that like

[cinder relic]

again imo a bug that happens in 1-3% of instances I don't think is that big of a deal, because I've played a lot of specs in this game, and a lot of them have some stupid dogshit bug in them

[dawn talon]

managing mark is skill expressive, yes, but it's just not fun when you do it correctly bc you aren't really thinking about it

[cinder relic]

that's just how wow is, sadly

[dawn talon]

and when it bugs it's the most frustrating shit ever

[cinder relic]

And I mean idk, most live service games are like this, they are a bit buggy, a bit shitty

[dawn talon]

so people ofc are prone to negativity bias

[gaunt phoenix]

you can probably craft a chest, but the season is over in 2 days, wouldnt blow gold on it

[cinder relic]

It'd be great if everything worked 100% of the time but like, its just sort of the cost of the doing business

[finite arch]

thats dope

[wintry solar]

Accepting this has been great tbh

[blissful zinc]

okay i will craft a chest thank you.

[finite arch]

Is there a big dps diff in raid between KIR FTB and trick HO?

[blissful zinc]

how is the ring

[finite arch]

I prefer KIR tbh

[gaunt phoenix]

ring is good

[keen belfry]

next tier? KIR is just "better" when we have new tierset

[blissful zinc]

i gave 20k gold for it

[cinder relic]

Like idk, PoE 1 and 2 are amazing live service games, both are buggy and shit

[finite arch]

This tier

[cinder relic]

Like ofc shooters have this less often like overwatch or marvel rivals, but games with systems and mechanics tend to just sorta be like this

[finite arch]

I prefer KIr but still run HO for raid

[gaunt phoenix]

currently fatebound is only a thing on sprocket, HO trickster vs KIR trickster are pretty similar

[finite arch]

ah okok

[keen belfry]

solo

[gaunt phoenix]

?!

[keen belfry]

how much power do we gain logging in tomorrow

or

tuesday

[cinder relic]

Probably lose power, right?

cuz we lose helmet

and gain the cloak

[dawn talon]

marvel rivals is actually borderline non-functional most of the time that's a bad example but yes i agree

[gaunt phoenix]

i think you gain a bit

[royal ermine]

goodbye my beautiful purple beam

[keen belfry]

i was under the assumption we just blast tomorrow

[cinder relic]

Is the cloak that good?

I legit dont know

[keen belfry]

we have aura buffs coming

[gaunt phoenix]

No but our killing spree does 140% more dmg

[cinder relic]

Is it actually? Lol, I felt like season 1 worked pretty flawlessly tbh, other than performance with dr strange portal

Which I mean, if u wanna define performance

[cinder relic]

Oh so true

[frail veldt]

I feel like rivals was pretty solid yeah

[dawn talon]

that game's hitreg is worse than release overwatch

[keen belfry]

any shooter not named counterstrikie is a bad game

[cinder relic]

I guess it just falls on how I define the terms

[dawn talon]

black widow is unironically not that bad tuning wise but the hitreg is so dogshit she was almost unplayable on launch

[royal ermine]

you dont like hawkeye shooting arrows with hitboxes the size of school busses?

[dawn talon]

if the hitboxes weren't that fucked up you wouldn't be able to hit anything ever

[cinder relic]

I wouldnt count shit hitreg as buggy, just like, how the game works lol

[dawn talon]

LMFAO

[cinder relic]

But yeah

[frail veldt]

The hit boxes are so forgiving in rivals though

Compared to ow

[dawn talon]

well there's bad hitreg by design and then bad hitreg that also does not work as intended

[frail veldt]

The models are gigantic

[cinder relic]

YA true

I ltierally only played dr strange in that game so I never noticed any issues

[frail veldt]

Lololol

Seems to be a trend

[dawn talon]

i logged into that game and i was like oh they got widow

and then i realised that it's actually unplayable LMFAO

[keen belfry]

oswalb i feel like you have bad crosshair placement

[frail veldt]

LOLOL

[keen belfry]

no flame ofc

[blissful zinc]

Should i drop haste below 20% to get more crit

[frail veldt]

Sim yourself

[keen belfry]

@dawn talon

[dawn talon]

dude did u see sugarfree

[frail veldt]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[dawn talon]

playing widow

on release

it's not me bro

it's not me

[keen belfry]

wtf is sugarfree

[gaunt phoenix]

huge

[cinder relic]

SUGARBRON

[dawn talon]

how you spell daddy

[keen belfry]

hmm

[cinder relic]

PGE

[keen belfry]

how?

[dawn talon]

p g e

[gaunt phoenix]

how what

[keen belfry]

are there full 11.2 notes

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/cherrycherrypie-anthony-bourdain-anthonybourdainwalk-anthony-bourdain-walking-walking-gif-6719104972528574530

How it feels enjoy a game despite it being shit

[keen belfry]

i thought we just logged in tomorrow with like: +8% aura dmg -BF dmg +huge fatebound dmg +huge ks dmg -ks cd

the 8% was a guess

[dawn talon]

logging into overwatch to play vs ram orisa hazard for the 1 millionth time

and just laughing when i die to ramattra having his w key functional

[frail veldt]

You can enjoy something and still want it to improve lol

[cinder relic]

How it feels to play doomfist on a smurf

[royal ermine]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24226698

[gaunt phoenix]

i think ks damage doesnt quite make up for having double the cd

also bf/trickster nerf

[dawn talon]

my gf is like actually bronze right

[frail veldt]

Like you got a ask for some fires to be put out lol

[dawn talon]

and playing sojourn in bronze might be the most ego inflating shit ive ever done in my life

but then i have to play in plat and drop 50 bombs and still lose bc she's quadruple negative

[keen belfry]

so ur telling me

wait

hm

[frail veldt]

It's hard to carry in rivals

Esp on dps

[keen belfry]

KS needs to fuck hard dmg right

[frail veldt]

I feel like it's easier on tank or sup

[keen belfry]

All damage increased by 13%.

[gaunt phoenix]

when we log in tuesday we lose a lot of coup de grace

cuz no tier

and ks cd

[keen belfry]

yeah true

[gaunt phoenix]

[dawn talon]

oh yeah it's gonna feel kinda dogshit

until tierr

right

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[frail veldt]

but out dps goes up?

our*

[gaunt phoenix]

it does

i think awang expected more

[keen belfry]

i cant believe our dmg barely goes up with reading +13% dmg increase

fk u trickstert

[royal ermine]

actually shouldn't that be 13.5% where's my .5

[keen belfry]

gg

[stiff vector]

W killing spree rework

[keen belfry]

what i need to do is practice not pressing feint before every KS now

i wonder if we gain dps cuz more energy now

i pressed feint too much this tier

[keen belfry]

is it cope to assume they still will change KS a little bit by the time it actually matters (near bis ilvl)

[near rock]

[keen belfry]

i hope we suck first couple weeks

heroic week buff

[royal ermine]

no heroic week tho

[near rock]

we're gonna be strong as fuck the first couple weeks lmao

[keen belfry]

heroic week buff timing

[royal ermine]

we're waiting probably at least 3 weeks before any changes because of the race

[keen belfry]

idk i swear i heard osme specs are gaining some crazy power just logging in on tuesday

[near rock]

massive aura tuning + none of our trinkets nerfed meanwhile hoc/kezan nerfed

[frail veldt]

how many fights in raid are pure ST this tier?

[keen belfry]

my WW monk guilde says he gains like 15% dmg (idk if i believe him)

[remote pecan]

like 1 or 2 i think

[gaunt phoenix]

plexus loomithar fractilus i think

[royal ermine]

I mean windwalker is getting a 13% aura buff so

[keen belfry]

so are we but we have -stuff

do they

[keen belfry]

what sim was this? hows he simming 4.5mil dps

[keen belfry]

oh lmao they are just +13% hahaha

they are going to crank on tuesday

[gaunt phoenix]

slice

[keen belfry]

what about ST

[gaunt phoenix]

it's still 1fth

[keen belfry]

+200k not bad

[normal forge]

sin ST is so much higher, isnt it? for live and next season

[gaunt phoenix]

on literal patchwerk i dont think so

[normal forge]

by much higher i mean like 20%-30%

[gaunt phoenix]

sin on sprocket doesnt look too hot

[normal forge]

maybe for next season fatebound ST can get us in a better position for ST fights

[ripe ibex]

@keen belfry hey

[proven ocean]

hey

chat

i was forced to play assa today

fml

[bright crane]

u make me sick

[proven ocean]

[bright crane]

literally how could u?

i thought we knew you..guess not..

[gaunt phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-baby-speech-bubble-cat-speech-baby-cat-gif-4142671478724681183

[keen belfry]

hey

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-water-gif-19744162

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1255110288081162311/1318256041112109106/catnum-cat-nom.gif

[hybrid pecan]

Hi some quick questions as a new player: ideally I want to KS immediately after the subterfuge window even though trickster builds want to cast KS as a much as possible and you would lose a lot of potential CDR in the subterfuge window

[limpid onyx]

Takes too much time, so you dont get to use the subterfuge window when busy in KS

So better to do KS after

[dim parrot]

Subter you want to get as many BTE casts as u can

[cinder relic]

Live no, next season, maybe

Something to keep in mind that pure st no adds, st, and st with good cleave are extremely different

[blissful zinc]

is this how it usually looks like

[gaunt phoenix]

it is the reason you try not to vanish if KS cooldown is under 20s or so

otherwise you would lose a lot of cdr on ks

but sometimes you still must vanish regardless of this rule to keep AR active

[hybrid pecan]

I was learning using HO because it seems easier, but should I just start learning KIR now for next tier?

[gaunt phoenix]

next tier is ideally KIR, HO is a bit behind, like 4-10% depending on targets

[ripe ibex]

miss u

[cinder relic]

The main quirk of kir is also going away so idk

The whole difficulty thing is null imo

[dim parrot]

What ilvl were these sims done at

[keen belfry]

I’m back bb

[cinder relic]

Just learn kir. Play it, it's always better

[gaunt phoenix]

683 or whatver zac is wearing

[gaunt phoenix]

yea, kir is just learning the slightly more involved builder rules and that's it

and ofc having to track and press kir

[hybrid pecan]

I feel like I would much rather prioritize st and prio damage especially considering outlaw is hardcapped anyways, but how much behind is fatebound in AOE?

[gaunt phoenix]

the problem is that fatebound actively loses priority damage in aoe content

its not like you continue to the same st

[hybrid pecan]

Also I'm not really liking the luxthos WA, do you guys have any WA recommendations?

[hybrid pecan]

Oh? How so?

[gaunt phoenix]

the delivered doom talent turns itself off at 5 targets

and the other one that makes dispatch spread aoe instead of do st

[hybrid pecan]

Delivered doom seems dumb. It would make sense if tails did AOE damage by default

But I get it

[daring oxide]

it just means we use deft BF more 🙂

less unseen blades

[dim parrot]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[dim parrot]

Use Zac’s if u play outlaw imo

I’m using zacs for all 3 specs rn

[gaunt phoenix]

anyway, at least for the sample profile i used, fatebound is 10% ahead of trickster at 1 target, is the same as trickster at 2 target, 6.5% behind at 5 target, 8% behind at 8 target

[blissful zinc]

do u just swap 2 daggers or change build aswell

[dim parrot]

Diff toons lol

[daring oxide]

Trickster gonna be the play on the last two bosses imo, and im pretty sure more tuning to come when tier releases to push outlaw ST up

[gaunt phoenix]

im not sure about nexus king

dragon boss

[daring oxide]

hmm

[gaunt phoenix]

i think it's mostly 1-2t

[hybrid pecan]

5.5M sim seems average/below average for ST and outlaw is hard capped so what's the niche it is supposed to fill?

[daring oxide]

maybe

but i also thought pure ST trickster on nexus king would also be pretty good

as we'd naturally cleave more

but hard to say

fatebound might just be better

way more ST

[gaunt phoenix]

outlaw's "niche" is flat damage with no burst cds

[daring oxide]

we should be tuned towards 6mil imo as Fatebound

[gaunt phoenix]

you are just always zooming and no ramp

[daring oxide]

would suit the flat damage profile better for this tier

[gaunt phoenix]

on literal patchwerk bosses we are probably on the mid/lower end but that's fine

[daring oxide]

ya

which to me is strange

[cinder relic]

Depends what is actually important and when on the fight

If u need platform damage, u probs play trickster

If u want more boss damage, Ur gonna play FB

[daring oxide]

i think it'll ultimately be boss damage really

especially considering last phase

so FB

at least FB pure ST is still going to cleave for free during adds and 2T

[hybrid pecan]

I'm just wondering because compared to, for example, ele shaman which is simming 6M in ST and also does insane AoE and brings a raid buff

[daring oxide]

I think FB will blast last phase

high mobility

and on the move

[cinder relic]

Stop caring about raidbots Sim dps

It's literally the most worthless stat ever

[hybrid pecan]

Fair enough

[cinder relic]

It tells you nothing useful

This raid isn't single target patchwork, no raid is

[gaunt phoenix]

perhaps a few bosses will resemble patchwerk, but the late bosses with so much movement and shit, who knows

[daring oxide]

fractilus

probably the most patchwerk

[gaunt phoenix]

i have a hunch outlaw will look great on nexus king

dimensius is a big question mark ofc

[daring oxide]

we will find out more when we do hc dimmy

[gaunt phoenix]

but outlaw seems to creep its way of looking good at the last boss if people put the time on it

[daring oxide]

but yeah i think nexus king is gonna be great

[tribal cosmos]

Ye outlaw always good

I just beg my raid lead to not do mechanics

But the higher you parse the more mechanics you do

[dawn talon]

i mean idk i think it's just that

[tribal cosmos]

Its a cruel wirld

[mossy shell]

every season everyone is doomer about outlaw and then it's perfectly playable

[dawn talon]

we're starting to see players get to the level of skill where outside of egregious exceptions it doesn't matter too much if your spec is good on a boss

[cinder relic]

More my point is look at fatebound. Fatebound for both sin and outlaw lose st by having more targets. A majority of wow specs have to sacrifice 5-10% dps to "add cleave" to their st rotation

[tribal cosmos]

I think destro lock looks good this patch too

[keen belfry]

man i forgot this was a talent wtf is this

[vivid vessel]

dude

[tribal cosmos]

@vivid vessel you remember me hubby ?

[vivid vessel]

we lose litteraly 15 % st

by taking bf talents

already

and we also cant chose to just do more st

while all these specs

just chose to funnel instead

[mossy shell]

imagine having funnel and cooldowns

[tribal cosmos]

Baugette boi doesnt remember me sadge

[vivid vessel]

i dont

i have no idea who you are

[keen belfry]

[tribal cosmos]

I was a df player

[vivid vessel]

oph deadtoob

you renamed

i know deadtoob

not deadtube

[keen belfry]

stop asking for good things

[tribal cosmos]

POGGGG

[vivid vessel]

right

[tribal cosmos]

you remmber me

[cinder relic]

This is literally my point dude

[mossy shell]

I'm not asking for anything

outlaw was perfect this season

[tribal cosmos]

Dont ask for cooldowns

[mossy shell]

they are fucking it up

[cinder relic]

St patchwork sims don't tell you anything useful

[tribal cosmos]

You will become assa rogue

[mossy shell]

wtf never

[strong halo]

CRIMINAL TAKE

[keen belfry]

no cap outlaw minus KS was sick nasty this season

[mossy shell]

how dare you say that

[vivid vessel]

nah bro outlaw changed into a spec that lost nothing to a spec that lose litteraly 30% st to go aoe talents

[tribal cosmos]

I think outlaw shouldnt ever lose dmg for st or aoe since we have no burst

[strong halo]

Would be cool if there was a buff for having AR up for like 1 min straight you get a buff

[tribal cosmos]

But whatever frost dk time

@strong halo punishes downtime bosses

[glass mortar]

for a long time outlaws thing in raid did seem to be doing very effective "free" cleave

we had seasons we literally gave up like 4% st to take aoe talents

[mossy shell]

it's called AR uptime 🙂

[tribal cosmos]

Yes free aoe cleave allowed you to dodge the “ only st “ raid call

[glass mortar]

now for ur "tuned" st build, assuming its not op, ur giving up like what, 20% ish for talents + fatebound?

between optimal aoe and optimal st

[keen belfry]

@vivid vessel how much are healers doing on ptr

[glass mortar]

feels kinda like not what law usually was about and was one of the major upsides of its damage profile

[tribal cosmos]

Now its “ fuck im doen 20%l

[mighty pivot]

how about they introduce Surrender to Adrenaline, which gives you insane energy regen and damage but if you drop it your heart literally explodes (in game)

[tribal cosmos]

Outlaw damage profile is being removed from its original form

This isnt the outlaw i fell in love with sad

[strong halo]

What damage?

KEK

[tribal cosmos]

The straight line

[cinder relic]

It's still a straight line

[tribal cosmos]

But its st or aoe line

Wait wouldnt this change really butcher m+ law too

[strong halo]

Most straight line spec in game lol

[tribal cosmos]

[cinder relic]

It depends on final tuning?

[keen belfry]

oh shit are we back to dmg profile talk

LETS GO

[tribal cosmos]

@vivid vessel gimmeh my baugette

Its ok the less players on outlaw the higher rank i get

There was like 20 outlaw players in dfs3

Fyrrak diff

[strong halo]

Tbh if outlaw hits like a wet noodle in ST it feels awful even if the aoe is good

Pressing all those buttons to compete with tank smh

[tribal cosmos]

Meh 95 parse + all that matters

And 95% of players wont achieve those numbahs

So the difference of % wont be a problem for most raidasss

[keen belfry]

i wonder what% of players parse over 95 once

[tribal cosmos]

The variance under 95% parse is inssne

Which is where most players sit

[strong halo]

Prbly a lot?

[tribal cosmos]

And where balance matters litrle

[keen belfry]

yuh gotta be higher, deadtube said 95% of players dont 95 parse

[tribal cosmos]

Balance just matters so little if you arent optimized gameplay

[keen belfry]

thoughts chat?

[tribal cosmos]

[strong halo]

Oh lmao yeah I’m not gna engage with that

[glass mortar]

hwat

[keen belfry]

am i doing math wrong rn

[glass mortar]

only 5% of players for each boss can parse 95% or higher thats how the %s work and not 100% of players raids at all

so i imagine significantly less then 5% of all players have ever 95th percentile or higher parsed

if i had to guess probably 10% or less of the entire playerbase even steps into raid

[strong halo]

You have 8 bosses and 4 patches per season though

[keen belfry]

and doesnt your parse lock in daily

[random stirrup]

but most look at best parse (not always) and as ilvl increases and parses lock in the number will increase

[glass mortar]

oh you mean like ever see it once? i mean even then

u cant forget how few people even raid period

[keen belfry]

theres more than 1 person per season with a 100 parse on a boss fight

[glass mortar]

it is not a significant amount of the playerbase

[tribal cosmos]

Look we just need to let a real outlaw fan make outlaw great again

Instead of a gun we should get a sawed off double barrel shot gun

And it has aoe dmg

Gg

?

[strong halo]

Well actually even if you had 1 patch, there’s a lot of 95 per patch because of timing, the more people gear the higher the parses by end of season

[tribal cosmos]

[strong halo]

But idk what % of pop raids vs doesn’t

[glass mortar]

id put it at under 15%

ive seen 10% used before but i dont know its source

thats all raiding

[strong halo]

I think that’s a bit low tbh but idk enough and where we could check

I think it would make more sense to look at just the raiding pop

[glass mortar]

the average wow player is far more casual then anyone who has ever raided realizes

[tribal cosmos]

Hmm those numbers are 4 years ago

Dunno about now

[glass mortar]

yea they stopped releasing exact numbers 4 years ago so i dont think its possible to do anything but guestimate now

[strong halo]

Unless blizzard gives us those numbers how would we even check

[tribal cosmos]

You just compare first bosses killed per season

And you can get a rough estimate of guilds attempting mythic

And the % drop or rising

Obviously not 100% but it paints an abstract pic

[strong halo]

You don’t have total pop though

Or concurrent pop

Blizzard doesn’t show that anymore

[tribal cosmos]

Shareholders reports are vague but numbers have been strady 1.2-2 m actuve

[keen belfry]

if we are talking about parse numbers i think its safe to only count people who raid

[strong halo]

That’s what I was saying

[tribal cosmos]

Well i have an outlaw and dk this raid

I heard dk was easy so im gonna enjoy napping

During keys

[mossy shell]

why would you play dk

ew

[keen belfry]

if we count everyone who plays wow then percentile wise, 50% avg parses are goated blaster mcgees

GBMs

[copper radish]

When did this go from 10% to 13%?

[wintry solar]

apoc mog

[tribal cosmos]

5% nerf bf

Ew

Imagine they finally uncap dn

[mossy shell]

that's not a nerf

[tribal cosmos]

Hello friends

[mossy shell]

it's a 1.7% buff to bf

and a 13% buff to prio

[dawn talon]

id say with all the modern onboarding, it's probably getting closer to 20% than it's ever been

[wintry solar]

the magical %

[dawn talon]

they seem interested in ramping it up so id assume they've had success with the stuff they've already tried

[wintry solar]

could mean anything

[dawn talon]

or they wouldn't put more resources into it

[tribal cosmos]

Well they did make last raid really easy

You can trade m0 stuff right?

[glass mortar]

if its not an ilvl upgrade

[tribal cosmos]

Boughta pay some gold for a m0 worldtour funnel

Need to get my little cutie chicks ready

[hallow spoke]

HO prio dmg gna be reasonable now no?

[cinder relic]

Ho is going to be worse on all target counts next patch so

I'd just suggest learning kir since it's simplified

[hallow spoke]

Played a bit of KIR but it felt shit on bosses idk

[copper radish]

KIR >>>

[glass mortar]

yea st is where its at its hardest

or anywhere ur not playing deft and getting deft value anyway

[crude anchor]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[cinder relic]

I mean, just learn how to play kir

It's better

The annoying container shit doesn't matter anymore

[proven ocean]

[hallow spoke]

Yeah if it's that big a diff, I'll do it on patch change ig

[proven ocean]

@wemo

where u at

[formal crest]

With latest FB buffs will HO FB be viable in m+ or only FB kir?

[gaunt phoenix]

HO is a bit behind

Like 4-10% depending on targets

It's "viable" in that you can accept that loss and time keys

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-baby-speech-bubble-cat-speech-baby-cat-gif-4142671478724681183

[jolly geyser]

🫃

[jolly geyser]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/782640623047147533/1193537388283166800/ezgif.com-animated-gif-maker.gif?ex=65ad1350&is=659a9e50&hm=286e7a41d834e8df2df71171464b1dea4f6f026ecc7043cbc61b9fd977159283&

[wintry solar]

https://tenor.com/view/idi-naxui-gif-26345237

[jolly geyser]

anyway,new patch next week. balls

[daring oxide]

wtf?

[jolly geyser]

[daring oxide]

stealing this ty

[wintry solar]

Vai, why is your name so bare?

[jolly geyser]

he is naked rn

[wintry solar]

Put some clothes on

[daring oxide]

I've been thinking about what to advocate for next

[daring oxide]

I will soon

[jolly geyser]

aug evokers

[daring oxide]

it has to be outlaw related

[wintry solar]

You'll have room this time. Midnight is coming.

[daring oxide]

i only care about outlaw

[jolly geyser]

faster ks or something,idk

[wintry solar]

If you ain't passionate enough about a change, don't worry about it.

Something will cross your mind I'm sure

[unkempt smelt]

What's making it simpler?

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/ginger-cat-orange-cat-what-am-i-doing-one-braincell-shared-braincell-gif-18177140204373854189

[wintry solar]

You'll always have a supporter in me

[cinder relic]

No container stuff exists

Or, it exists but isn't worth it

[mild vigil]

when did the container stuff get changed? or is it just not as worth paying attention to without our current 4pc

[unkempt smelt]

What do you guys mean by container stuff, I'm lost 😅

[cinder relic]

It didn't get changed its just not worth the effort anymore

[near rock]

advocate for progging as outlaw despite the haters

[proven ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1401632198830063787/attachment.gif

[cinder relic]

If you don't know you don't need to know

[wintry solar]

I wish I didnt

[frank finch]

what was the dps gain doing that stuff anyway

[mild vigil]

I've been scarred by the knowledge of the container buff

[near rock]

more of a glassware > tupperware guy myself

[jolly geyser]

glass container with lid

[limpid vortex]

Is there a list of cooldowns I need to save for phases somewhere? Like the Vexie damage amp?

[glass mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

u can flex trinket usage as law and thats about it

if the damage amp is immediatly happening in a few finishers and ur not gunna drop ar u could hold a vanish charges too

[hasty warren]

can't way for wednesday

[limpid vortex]

Thanks

[proven ocean]

[hybrid pecan]

So is the M+ build we're using next season the "keep it rolling cleave" build on wowhead?

[cinder relic]

Well they haven't been updated yet

But probably pretty similar

Might be a random talent different. Nj

[glass mortar]

pretty sure u basically just swap sleight for loaded and then one of the other smoll middle talents for kspree (as fatebound) and thats it

[cinder relic]

Wowhead will have 1 fth and 2 fth so

It won't have ho

[craggy barn]

we aint hos no more

[vivid vessel]

why would it not have ho @cinder relic

its not more behind than usual

[cinder relic]

Becuase I feel that the complexity jump isn't worth splitting hairs over this tier with the container stuff being removed

The build is just worse at all target counts, so why would it be featured?

[vivid vessel]

because its easier

and its not that behind

[brisk meadow]

[vivid vessel]

why was it featured in df s3 and df s4

or tww s1

[lime lake]

Guy hates hoes wtf

[cinder relic]

With a lot of the quirks removed around containers I don't think it's that much more difficult

[vivid vessel]

but

[random stirrup]

maybe im clueless but how is it any different from s3 df kir

[craggy barn]

imo guy, its a bit of a disservice to not provide it with the caveats mentioned

[vivid vessel]

the quirks were only there in s2 lol

[cinder relic]

I was lazier in DF

[craggy barn]

guy wants to gatekeep ho

😠

[random stirrup]

the kir mafia rising up against number 1 HO believer guy to fight for HO's life

crazy stuff

[craggy barn]

imo, not providing all viable builds leads to things like people coming in here asking why someone uses one build over another, or ask why the builds people are using on raiderio arent on wowhead

[cinder relic]

The issue is how do we define viable

I can feature literally 50 "viable builds" that are 2% worse or 5% worse but at what point is it just clutter for the sake of clutter

[vivid vessel]

i think you dont realize how much harder kir is for new players guy

litteraly

[cinder relic]

When kir is better ho barely gets played

[vivid vessel]

what

thats so untrue

kir has been better every tier

[craggy barn]

yes but when KIR is better, u still had HO on wowhead only and people were confused

[vivid vessel]

and ho has been played more

every tier

[cinder relic]

Ok

[vivid vessel]

even top 100 wcl

has always been ho favored

[cinder relic]

This isn't true

[vivid vessel]

it litteraly is

lol

[random stirrup]

kir simmed 1% higher in df3 right

in st

[vivid vessel]

idk it was mostly 5% ahead

like always

[lime lake]

The shareholders are hiding ho builds to stop new players from trying outlaw

[random stirrup]

because this was top 100 volco in df3 (.5 patch)

[vivid vessel]

in df s3 kir was way ahead i think

[toxic umbra]

hey even i played KiR in nerubar (kyveza mythic btw)

[white marten]

HO FTW

Ho is love

Ho is life

[vivid vessel]

im talking post rework btw

it was different before

[toxic umbra]

oh okay

[craggy barn]

like i see no issue providing the easier build even if its worse
showing the option when its not an actual detriment seems pretty community friendly

[white marten]

~5% iirc

[craggy barn]

its not even SMF levels of bad

[proven ocean]

@wemo

@frail veldt

[craggy barn]

if it was SMF levels of bad where its just straight up 10%+ worse would be dumb

[proven ocean]

o

m

g

b

e

s

t

t

v

show

2025

https://tenor.com/view/cat-water-gif-19744162

[craggy barn]

u ok ross?

[proven ocean]

no im not ok

best show ever

no cappi

u have to watch

[craggy barn]

wtf show are u talking about

[white marten]

Love island

[craggy barn]

im good

[proven ocean]

dexter: resurrection

[craggy barn]

im good

[proven ocean]

9.1 idmb

[craggy barn]

on to the real talk tho

[white marten]

Did you just say “im good” to current pop culture brain rot!? 🤔

[craggy barn]

wheres my catgun badge

yes pedro

[late swallow]

Severance season 3 when?

[jolly geyser]

[late swallow]

I need more helly r

[craggy barn]

[white marten]

Some one send him to the re-education camp

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-orange-spin-hat-one-brain-cell-gif-2745719316163357325

[craggy barn]

bro im busy playing cyberpunk

fuck your love island bullshit

[proven ocean]

cookedpunk

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitten-speech-bubble-speech-discord-gif-25192162

[proven ocean]

wtf is love island

sounds like a horny ass show no cappi

[craggy barn]

it is

[white marten]

Pure brain rot

[craggy barn]

its where peopel make love to an island

[jolly geyser]

zeross watching Naked Attraction

[late swallow]

Love island is for people who eat their own boogers

No cap

[white marten]

Like it’s literally pure brain rot and nothing else

[proven ocean]

[craggy barn]

classic reality tv

[white marten]

No its worse

[proven ocean]

Sinners

[white marten]

Classic tv had some level of substance

[jolly geyser]

the movie

[craggy barn]

reality tv never had substance

stfu

[proven ocean]

ye new moowee

idk if i watch

[cinder relic]

Slop TV has always existed idk if it's unique now

Jersey shore, Jerry springer

[tropic zephyr]

wait they removed the container stuff ⁉️

[jolly geyser]

Sinners was aight imo

[cinder relic]

No but it's not worth doing

[tropic zephyr]

why

[white marten]

Na love island is more brain rot than those two together

[tropic zephyr]

ins't it a free supercharger

[cinder relic]

Probably a handful of reasons

[white marten]

I think you’re underestimating the rot

[cinder relic]

You kir and then u rtb once

[tropic zephyr]

ye

[glass mortar]

the thing thats not worth doing is gaming it for 2 rtbs

[cinder relic]

No like, nonsense like rn

[glass mortar]

ur still doing the 1

[cinder relic]

That's it

[glass mortar]

which is a container thing

[proven ocean]

dude

[glass mortar]

so we r just doing the easier container thing

[white marten]

Guy, can you please make HO viable pls?

[proven ocean]

dexter resurrection is great, it has a giga strong cast

like

legit

[tropic zephyr]

you mean no nonsense of double rtb

[cinder relic]

This is what I mean

[glass mortar]

its nice

[tropic zephyr]

just once

[proven ocean]

insane actors

[cinder relic]

Correct

[proven ocean]

no cappi

[cinder relic]

Just kir > rtb

[glass mortar]

yea thats probably y u confuse people when u say the container rules r gone

they think its patched maybe

we r just back to 1 reroll

[tropic zephyr]

yeah i mean it's like it has always been except S2 so

[glass mortar]

like s1

[tropic zephyr]

ok

gotcha

[cinder relic]

Sure I can reword it when I say it

[craggy barn]

are we back to not RTB in stealth or nah

[white marten]

wait, container rules are gone??

[proven ocean]

wait, container rules are gone??

[glass mortar]

yea i stole them

only im allowed to use them now

[proven ocean]

cookan

[glass mortar]

find ur own rtb rules

[proven ocean]

weran*

[white marten]

Weran

[tropic zephyr]

it's not about the rtb rules, it's about the journey

[craggy barn]

SC too strong where we still wanna RTB in stealth? or was that also just because of SOH and tier

[white marten]

nerf GS

[glass mortar]

nah that was a thing in s1 also

[dawn talon]

it was a wash in s1

yeah

[white marten]

!container

[glass mortar]

container!

[white marten]

!rtb

[ornate heath]

How to use RTB
( HO build)

• Roll on cooldown until you get a 5 buff. If you have 4 total buffs including CTO, you can choose to keep them until 3, it's not an expected dps loss or gain.

( KIR build)

• Has a concept of buffs being preserved through RTB casts after pressing KIR instead of being rolled off.
• Use this weakaura to see how many buffs you "will lose" by pressing RTB (red or blue border).
• Roll if you will lose between 0-2 buffs.
• Roll if you will lose between 3-4 buffs if they are all below ~10s remaining.
• If you KIR a natural 5 buff, wait until buffs approach ~41s remaining before rolling.

The faq elaborates on these rules.

[late swallow]

!piss

[glass mortar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/357465816964530177/1197167910058201160/speechmemified_image.webp_1.gif

[white marten]

HO ftw

[proven ocean]

ngl

crazy for a tv show to be 9.2

in 2025

legit crazy

and its not even finished yet

[white marten]

legit crazy

[proven ocean]

i dont recall any tv show in 2025 thats above 9 lmao

or even in the past few years

[white marten]

Game of thrones s1

[proven ocean]

??

[jolly geyser]

[proven ocean]

that was in 2050

[frail veldt]

Sup

[proven ocean]

@carmine terrace

listen

this show

is good

ok

watch

[frail veldt]

My gf likes Dexter

[proven ocean]

[frail veldt]

I've never been a huge fan

[proven ocean]

sheeeeesh

careful of her tho

[white marten]

2050

[proven ocean]

unless u dont know what the show is about then np

[frail veldt]

I do lol

[proven ocean]

ah

[frail veldt]

Murderer who kills murderers

[proven ocean]

no cappi tho

9.2

in 2025

[frail veldt]

It's a decent show

[proven ocean]

kinda op

or

[jolly geyser]

trinity killer was best

[craggy barn]

idk zeross

[white marten]

Is Solo able to buff HO prior to release ?