outlaw

[desert tendon]

we re talking about real life sports

[covert kestrel]

are you coming home in s3

[desert tendon]

go back to your game you loser

[wintry solar]

This is a sports channel now

[lofty sand]

Ay zac bad vibe no wow

[desert tendon]

zac gonna hate us

[wintry solar]

What a predicament

[random stirrup]

still playing sub in raid but my group kinda seems interested in keys this season

more likely i play mage than rogue though

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza-gif-18148683

[random stirrup]

unless its frost mage

fk that

[wintry solar]

Frontier

Let's pick up armored mma together

[spark radish]

Raid Fatebound and M+ Trickster?

[random stirrup]

that wasn't a tierlist to be clear it was a difficulty rating

outlaw probably plays both hero trees on different bosses

[lime lake]

new tierlist dropped

[spark radish]

I see.... still havent decided if I Sin a Season or keep Shootin' x)

[lofty sand]

Some tiers i tryhard the other 2 spec but outlaw is Just goated

Always feel like i miss home

[frail veldt]

thats my issue yeah

I barely get to sit down at my pc by 9 most evenings

[covert kestrel]

wtf is armored mma, like jousting n shit?

[spark radish]

yeah it also feels way more forgiving when playing w pugs right (which I mostly do) , just sad that we cant swap around like mm and bm hunters can cause with the versa and weapons thing its almost a whole different world x)

[wintry solar]

Beat each other up in a suit of armor

Sword and shield

Maybe an axe if you want

[lofty sand]

Yeah we Just cannot swap ever

Have to stock 2 whole gears to play other spec

[spark radish]

thats my problem rn, do I recraft everything and craft 2 daggers to season start as sin cause it looks to be insane atm. or not x)

[lofty sand]

Yeah it is what it is

Yeah sin looks really good rn

[spark radish]

also I've heared that the energy starvation on sin got "better" ? that was always something which I hated about sin

[frail veldt]

sins starvation is more just part of the rotation

its more about energy management

[lofty sand]

Yeah in st sin (for me atleast) feels clunky cuz of energy

[frail veldt]

thats by design

have to manage energy

[lofty sand]

Yeah

[wintry solar]

I like that about assa tbh

[lofty sand]

Thats why i dont like sin that much

In keys its fun tho

[wintry solar]

Assa is so well designed imo

Okay well now we have to fight

[frail veldt]

yeah most long time assa mains I know love the enrgy thing

reminds them of a time in wow when resources meant something

[lofty sand]

XD yeah

[wintry solar]

Sometimes I run an assa key because of it

[lofty sand]

I guess we are the opposite

[wintry solar]

One or two max

[lofty sand]

I Just cant fcking press 2 mutilate in 5 seconds

Cuz im managing energy

But assa in key is fun and not energy starved

Except on st ofc

[tribal cosmos]

how do i join a good guild if i used to play in dragonflight

and quit

[quaint mauve]

apply

get new logs through pugs

[tribal cosmos]

i never finished fyrrak mythic sadge

[quaint mauve]

recent content*

[tribal cosmos]

work got horrid

[lime lake]

if your logs are even remotely decent you'll find a mythic guild willing to give you a shot

[tribal cosmos]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/77643005?

this was my old logs

[lime lake]

then just hop up the ranks until you get where you want to be

[quaint mauve]

bro i got into a mythic raiding guild thats CE with only SL logs

just apply

[tribal cosmos]

hmmm is outlaw looking fun next season

is it still bte meta

[frail veldt]

Yes

Idk what that means

[quaint mauve]

u have good logs too

[tribal cosmos]

between the eyes

[tender wedge]

It’s always BTE meta

[tribal cosmos]

nice

[frail veldt]

Yeah we still use crackshot

[tribal cosmos]

so the gameplay is still perfect

[tender wedge]

Well

[quaint mauve]

hi mewo

[tender wedge]

Its very good imo

[quaint mauve]

i finished raiding on rogue :)

[tender wedge]

Perfect might be a stretch

[tribal cosmos]

im between dk and outlaw rn

[quaint mauve]

im outve heroic capos hell

[frail veldt]

Suppp

[tribal cosmos]

if outlaw plays similar to what it was in df might just stick to outlaw

but ill have to see how aids the bosses are for dt

[tender wedge]

DK is also doing pretty well at the moment

Outlaw is pretty similar to DF generally, I don’t think any bosses are going to be particularly awful for downtime

[tribal cosmos]

so no more tindral dt ?

[wintry solar]

Yeah I'm not sure which of my mains to main between dk and outlaw

[tender wedge]

But as per usual before raid is is out, the daggers specs are probably looking better

[tribal cosmos]

daggers always better for boss dmg anyway

and burst dmg

[tender wedge]

Yeah exactly

[tribal cosmos]

outlaw will never have the " good " damage profile for things like prog raiding ig

[tender wedge]

But I don’t think outlaw will be a detriment to your raid or anything like that

[tribal cosmos]

the disgusting timers i had to set to get one more gcd per miinute back then was funny

[wintry solar]

Maybe I should drop outlaw for assa for the first time in 20 years. I got those daggers from the timewalking vendor I'd never use otherwise

[tender wedge]

Sometimes guilds will expect you to play the “best” spec though which can be annoying

[tribal cosmos]

meh maybe i just play dk then

unholy for raid

frost for m+

ima check stat weights real quick

[tender wedge]

Nah man outlaw is love. Outlaw is life

[tribal cosmos]

outlaw is still versa max right

versa crit gamer ?

[wintry solar]

Yeah you're right.

[tender wedge]

There’s a lowish haste cap now too

[tribal cosmos]

5 ?

[tender wedge]

Then big vers

[lofty sand]

20 haste for kir

[tender wedge]

18-20%

[tribal cosmos]

eh

https://tenor.com/view/david-rose-gif-3214199033367100027

[tender wedge]

Don’t ask it’s a long story

[tribal cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/david-rose-gif-3214199033367100027

20% haste for outlaw is

[lofty sand]

In short AR scales from AR

Wat

I mean from haste

XD

[wintry solar]

Lol wut

[tribal cosmos]

i ran like 3% back den

felt nice

[tender wedge]

Yeah gone are the days of negative haste

[lofty sand]

Yeah it was only for feeling Back then

[tender wedge]

Tbh that probably part of the reason we need some now

Outlaws wished we had any haste scaling at all

The monkey paw curls

[wintry solar]

Yeah yall need to stop asking for stuff

[tender wedge]

Now we need 25% just to get back to what we were before 🙃

[tribal cosmos]

is zac the frenchie still kicking

where is my baugette boi

[tender wedge]

I mean it just happened again with KS lol

[wintry solar]

Exactly

Stop

[tender wedge]

Yeah he’s still carrying the outlaw torch

[tribal cosmos]

my wittle baugget

[lofty sand]

Where is my goat JPC, why he playin DK

[wintry solar]

Next they'll rework outlaw to he a full fledged gunslinger but have the range be 8 yards

[frail veldt]

yeah they did the absolute worst of both worlds

[tender wedge]

Ma petite baguette

[frail veldt]

not only are haste buffs and hero still shit for us

now we have to STAT haste even though its bad

lol

its like

the worst possible solution

[tender wedge]

He went to college and found himself

[frail veldt]

as if they intentionally did it poorly

[lofty sand]

Yeah ik but hes back

Playing dk

Like im sad

[tender wedge]

Yeah I know. Turns out his self was a DK

[tribal cosmos]

oh so frost and dk are opposite

that kinda sucks

[tender wedge]

Idk man I’m not about any yucky plate classes

[lofty sand]

I mean Back then he would Just make outlaw work even if everyone said its ass

[tender wedge]

Outlaw was down BAD bad when he came back so not surprised

[tribal cosmos]

this all accurate ?

[tender wedge]

This will get deleted in a second lol

[tribal cosmos]

y?

[tender wedge]

!fotm

Oh that doesn’t work in here

lol

[tribal cosmos]

its just sims doesnt matter in grand scheme

[tender wedge]

Yes but the do generate a lot of useless discourse the mods need to manage

[tribal cosmos]

wiat since when has monk simmed so high st

[lime lake]

hide before solo gets back

[tribal cosmos]

aight i hid it bois

dont worry we criminals

[tender wedge]

In short no it’s not accurate. It’s a compiled list with zero curation in terms of whether sims are accurate or finished

[tribal cosmos]

ele sham being high is always a meme

[tender wedge]

It’s probably generally close but using sims to compare specs is always like using a hammer to open a door

Ele sham just got a 20% buff to ST last week so

Imagine

[tribal cosmos]

hah

elesham getting a 20 % buff

19 % nerf before raid

classic

[verbal pumice]

XD 20% buff 30% nerf inc

[royal hollow]

most likely not might be back later in the patch, theres irl stuff i need to deal with

[desert tendon]

oh shoot

hope evertything will turn fine

i have faith on your vulperino capacity

[royal hollow]

ye ill come back once im stablized, dw im not dying

[desert tendon]

u better not

else

😠

[royal hollow]

[glass mortar]

wer 11.2 guide

when we needed it most

🥹

crazy how theres like zero youtube outlaw guides tbh so many people look to video guides first before discords n such

[glass mortar]

its not the same 😠

[royal hollow]

zac can make one

or solo

i'd pay to watch

[glass mortar]

zac guide would go hard

since he doesnt talk

[royal hollow]

only captions

[glass mortar]

just french rap blasting in the background as he tabs over to outlaw discord, opens up outlaw FaQ

mouses over each line

then goes and does a m+

[royal hollow]

[glass mortar]

what more guide do u need

[royal hollow]

solo's guide would be him typing the whole faq out

and linking 1285 differnt sims in video description

[frail veldt]

the faq is a guide

it just is labeled "faq"

lol

[frail veldt]

zacs guide would be "go read the faq cba"

[glass mortar]

i know lots of players who are looking to try something as an alt prefer to go to youtube and look up guides tbh

because they wanna see how it works out in practice

[frail veldt]

yeah we could use a youtube guide maker

[glass mortar]

but yea i just read

if u just kinda wanna glance at something to see if u wanna try it its a bit heavy going into class discord and reading thru 4 pages of FaQ

[frail veldt]

problem with a youtube video is its harder to update as new info comes out

[glass mortar]

and then trying to watch someone play it and figure out how its going

[frail veldt]

so like when our rotation inevitably gets some small tweak due to TC

do you make a whole new video?

[glass mortar]

youtube videos r nice for the more casual people tbh

[frail veldt]

ive thought about this before for outlaw

[glass mortar]

ya thats why they go out of date so quick

i mean its not a negative tho usually for content creators right

means they get to make a new guide every season

more clicks

[frail veldt]

Yeah its just a little silly to re-record the same video with one minor adjustment

[spark radish]

I mean since its a niche due to not much existing, I'd say its good content which gets clicked and might drop a penny or two 😄

[frail veldt]

itll get less clicks

if the views arent cnetralized

to one video

thats how the algorithm works

[bold belfry]

wieird bug? dispatch is saying equip a melee weapon but i have tow already. everything else works fine

[glass mortar]

i mean ur usually not releasing more then 1 a season

[frail veldt]

when someone googles "outlaw guide" theyre gona click on the top viewed one

even if its out of date

[glass mortar]

u cant cast dispatch with a dagger mh

[frail veldt]

yeah but at what point in the season do you release this

[glass mortar]

thats why outlaw cant use a dagger mh

[frail veldt]

at the start?

cuz stuff does change after that

[glass mortar]

yea

[bold belfry]

ah thanks

[spark radish]

and then you gotta rename to "outdated updated vid in section" so you get the click and they will go to new video 😄

[glass mortar]

i mean blizzard doesnt usually change the spec too much with tuning stuff

[bold belfry]

just come back to rogue not played since legion wasnt sure the issue

[frail veldt]

they dont change it but we sometimes do

lol

[glass mortar]

when that does happen people usually release quick updates or if its minor just edit their guide

[bold belfry]

thanks

[frail veldt]

like shifting towards 1pt fth

[dawn talon]

for viewer retention? no, not really

[glass mortar]

like 1 guide woulda worked for all of s1 and s2 of outlaw

[frail veldt]

nah

we didnt even consider 1fth at the start of s2

[dawn talon]

what'd be best is making one long video and then any 'addendums' as yt shorts

[glass mortar]

ok but u dont need to know about 1 fth kir lol

[dawn talon]

shorts have super high clickthrough

[frail veldt]

even the UB rules evolved throughout the season

[glass mortar]

majority of players werent playing that even as outlaw

and u could do quite high keys without it

[frail veldt]

sure yeah you could do just hte basics

[glass mortar]

thats what guides r usually for like

[tender wedge]

be the change you want to see in the world

[glass mortar]

u can make the advanced guides content thats fun

[wintry solar]

Guides aren't worth the watch if there's no subway surfers content. Or minecraft parkour.

[glass mortar]

but the type of player looking for a youtube guide to casually view dont need to know about 1 fth etc

at the start of the expac i was still refering people to @royal hollow guide from df rework because it was similar enough and the only high quality youtube guide i knew of

i think its changed too much by now to refer back to that tho

[royal hollow]

nah its wayyyy to different now

especially with trickster

[strong halo]

can you recraft an item to just remove the embelishment?

[bold belfry]

Yes

I think

[strong halo]

found it thanks!

[covert kestrel]

Yeah you use griftahs embellishing powder

Oh okie gucci

[covert kestrel]

That's how I learned

[blissful zinc]

Guys for kir build what do you change for single targets for lfa bosses

Also is 34% vers good

[fluid meadow]

do we have any hope for s3 as bottom mid player in keys?like i had zero phys comp run in s2 but as i see we really need the comp buffs to do smthing

[covert heart]

I was doing pretty good damage without the phy comp and beating dps.

[strong halo]

i kinda wna race change away from female Human the racial feels useless and the animations mid, any recs?

[balmy topaz]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tender wedge]

guys out here want to know if outlaw ok for their weekly vault keys smh

but i get it, it's more about pugging perception than actual capability

[tender wedge]

this really only applies to like...top of the top keys

[long barn]

I am working on 20s and rogue do have more utility than one might think. Lower and mid keys rogues don’t have much. But higher keys a lot of skips and the way you pull and kidney shots and such really start to shine at like 18 onward.

Obviously phys comp is ideal. But I’ve been higher dps than some meta on top keys this season. S3 PTR looks the same. We will be fine

[tender wedge]

yeah i mean the answer to that question is the same for every spec in the game (outside of title range) - if you're playing with friends and guild then play what you want, if you're pugging then prepare to take longer in queue / run your own key / reroll

theres no secret to get around any of that

[fluid meadow]

idk will see, im pugging with my tank friend, hope i can beat him without party buffs on keys

[tender wedge]

omg\

[hybrid crown]

outlaw is broken op for pug vault keys

[proper bear]

Undead male looking really strong next season

Vulpera too they’re nicknamed vulpumpa

[frail veldt]

Dwarf is the bis race for free DPS and good active racial

Night elf sims higher technically in m+ but requires more finesse

[formal jay]

Night elf sims higher in fashion

[lime lake]

Except nelf stealth animation is dogshit so they lose too many points to be playable

[frail veldt]

Whoa what

Horrible take

I think dwarf has some of the worst animations

They're uplayable for me

[sudden fulcrum]

goblin stealth animation is the best

[proven ocean]

[frail veldt]

I think people have convinced themselves to like it for the racial

No one would be dwarf without the racial lol

[proven ocean]

i would

why u ask because

[frail veldt]

I think it'd be 90% undead, night elf, or blood elf

[proven ocean]

90% UNDEAD

NOW THATS COOKED

LOL

[frail veldt]

Undead animations go hard on rogue

[proven ocean]

ye but everyone wants coomer mog

undead is like

2010

[frail veldt]

Yeah maybe I'm miscounting the gooners

But that's why I said blood elf

[lime lake]

oh dwarf is absolutely terrible too

[frail veldt]

90% some combination of those 3

[proven ocean]

i think undead is even like

less popular than most races

[lime lake]

but nelf stealth animation is just you sliding along the ground

its so bad

[proven ocean]

cuz of the gooning domination

[frail veldt]

Cuz it's racial is dog shit

[proven ocean]

no even if its not dogshit like no cappi

[frail veldt]

But yeah I still think blood elf is prob most popular race if there were no racial

Night elf prob close second

[lime lake]

belf is most popular race even with racials

[frail veldt]

Gooners be gooning

[lime lake]

also give me back my silence

https://tenor.com/view/rrane-battal-rrane-battal-kızgın-battal-kızgın-gif-25355985

[frail veldt]

It was too op

[proven ocean]

ur silenced in wow?

or

[lime lake]

ye i got reported for terrorism too often

[desert tendon]

yo

[lime lake]

they silenced my voice

[proven ocean]

terrorism

wtf

[desert tendon]

everyone here so cute

but bel

[proven ocean]

[desert tendon]

wtf

https://tenor.com/view/bad-callouts-rogue-gif-26757787

[proven ocean]

wtf did u do

[lime lake]

i spoke the truth

[proven ocean]

[hasty swallow]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[red zinc]

@proven ocean ok 😃 👍

[proven ocean]

@Zeross ok 😃 👍

@red zinc *

[desert tendon]

@Zeross ok 😃 👍

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072566287638728786/1401341569042481294/image.png?ex=688fec89&is=688e9b09&hm=e3f5ec94589b77d8b30eb00e58b395752b405ed6e6a170dfc4e504987e2dd1d3&

@proven ocean

thoughts?

[frank finch]

new leak

[proven ocean]

buff assa confirmed??

[frank finch]

fresh oj

[proven ocean]

[gaunt phoenix]

Outlaw graduated to mid

[frank finch]

wonder why assa FB is missing

[red zinc]

Would it be worth the 30 million dollars of launch costs to send kalamazi into orbit

[frank finch]

LOL

thats m fav one

[desert tendon]

i m against animal abuse

but if it s bommie

it s fine

[torpid fiber]

This thumbnail is so good

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-water-gif-19744162

[red zinc]

Bouncy dome

[gaunt phoenix]

i love black+white shorthair cats so much

[proven ocean]

i love black+white shorthair cats so much

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[red zinc]

agreed

[red zinc]

lmao stupid take

[proven ocean]

????????????????????????? LMAO

[gaunt phoenix]

[glass mortar]

https://x.com/Hipposareneat/status/1950625096814805228?t=HFEqySR6tupy_QnjQYLyCw&s=19

hippo (@Hipposareneat)

TIL that if you link someone your simc they can open your string go to top gear and look at ur talent names and i had to just explain why my druids aoe talents were called "male pregnancy grindset" to someone so like whatever i guess

X · Jul 30, 2025, 6:30 PM

boomkin players....

[gaunt phoenix]

😨

[tender wedge]

as if you need any more reason to nerf them

[stray star]

how bad is to use a dagger offhand in 11.2 ?

[proven ocean]

ye fk boomies

[glass mortar]

!dagger

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[glass mortar]

will just depend on stats

[proven ocean]

wtf thats an insult to boomies.. reporting this to blizzard this is attacking my integrity as a boomie lover

@red zinc agree or??

[red zinc]

you want to fuck birds?

Weirdo

[proven ocean]

what the helly

[keen belfry]

Okay I’m back in the states

Are we good now?

[lime lake]

damn you got out and came back anyway

[proven ocean]

go back to the states

[past sphinx]

anyone know why on bee boss on cinder, the bee gets disoriented and when you mount it you get stuck and cant charge? absolute bs

[proven ocean]

yea

bug

either try to remount another bee or let the healer do it

[past sphinx]

happens on every 20 we attempt

healer cant even dismount, so he has to afk for 10 secs

[proven ocean]

ah

idk

i mean i never had major issues with bee's

we kinda always 1 shotted it

maybe game settings fk with it

or addons or WAs

idk

[past sphinx]

so frustrating, happens everytime

bee has like a disorient above their head

and if some1 mounts it its stunned or some shit

[red zinc]

Wait what you already been in netherlands?

I thought that was way later

[covert heart]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[blazing bloom]

If you’re a good player is KIR objectively better than HO??

I’ve timed all 14’s but I am not happy with my damage

[finite arch]

Yes

But at this point the difference is sub 5%

Iirc

[blazing bloom]

I see

So I just suck lol

[finite arch]

I would give kir a try tho the difference will exponentially increase in s3

Its also super fun

[blazing bloom]

No time like the present hah

[finite arch]

[blazing bloom]

I feel like I have to be doing something glaringly wrong

My damage isn’t laughable but it’s not great

[finite arch]

Could be an ilvl difference i have only made the swap to outlaw about 2months ago i realised from this discord that there are a few ways to track performance

One of it is AR uptime

[blazing bloom]

I’m ~670 iLVL

[finite arch]

If you have around 70+% ar uptime your uptime on mobs is good

[finite arch]

Whats your dps like?

In m+

[blazing bloom]

I’m usually 80 or better on AR up time

[finite arch]

Thats good

[blazing bloom]

I timed a 14 rookery with about 3 mil per second

[finite arch]

Are you comfortable with the rotation? Or do you sometimes at a lost what to press next?

[finite arch]

I do 4.1 at 677 but thats with warrior buff so idk if 3mil is good or not might have to sim to see maximum potential

[blazing bloom]

Do you think you could ever watch me run a dungeon sometime and see what I’m doing bad?? If not I get it

[finite arch]

I may not have the expertise to be able to sus out the mistakes but i believe this discord has vod reviews

[upbeat tundra]

give me skyfury and motw

[round spindle]

It is indisputably super fun.

[wintry solar]

wtf thats an insult to boomies.. reporting this to blizzard this is attacking my integrity as a boomie lover

[frank finch]

so how much dps do we gain on day 1

[fair oak]

Seven seven seven seven seven seven seven sven

Point seven

[keen belfry]

Only 4 days in Amsterdam cooked planning

[frail veldt]

It's increasing by like 2% lol

[warped fiber]

Did you visit Flying Dutchman? I love that bar.

[dull geyser]

anyone know why zac plays with so much haste but not many others do? or only recomend like 20%?

he has like 15K haste

[torpid fiber]

armoury says he has 19.35% haste

which is the norm for KIR

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[torpid fiber]

althougha rmoury says he's only at 12.7k haste

hmm

[dull geyser]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GNFq8ZkHhaLBfJbW?fight=7&type=damage-done&source=1

[frank finch]

he might be haste flasking

[dull geyser]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xDRX8FZLcJt6wAqG?fight=4&type=summary&source=1

pretty consistant 15K

using verse flask still

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pjhcfDQ641T2wM9t?fight=26&type=summary&source=8

[gaunt phoenix]

its the secret to doing so much dmg

[dull geyser]

im just wondering if prio-ing more AR uptime is beneficial

i cant get above 92% with normal play at 19% haste im wondering if more haste would be better

[torpid fiber]

huh, i don't know where the haste rating is coming from

either armoury or wcl is calcing haste rating wrong i think

[dull geyser]

WCL is just giving flat values, and my flat value is correct, from ingame to a log so idk

[torpid fiber]

yeah this is what i thought

that's what armoury shows as well

i wonder if he's entering combat with alacrity full stacked and hence the log reads that as the initial value or smth

[shell fossil]

i saw a 4k balance druid like 3 days ago and smiled a little

[torpid fiber]

I think this might be it?

[dull geyser]

but every key?

[gaunt phoenix]

his gear is 12771 haste

[torpid fiber]

solo just posted the simc results of copying his gear (and I checked myself), before buffs it's only 19%

[gaunt phoenix]

can hover over his gear and add up the rating

Haste does nothing after 19% and zac knows this

[torpid fiber]

I think this is a WCL bug

i can't figure out exactly what it is though

but this is a bug somewhere

[covert kestrel]

hi team, love you all

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe an issue with parsing the roulette ring

Idk

[torpid fiber]

That was my guess as well

[gaunt phoenix]

every stat is higher than his armory value

[torpid fiber]

Then yeah it'd be that

It's probably averaging out the ring

[lone spear]

final raid with this version of KS tonight

end of an era

[craggy barn]

glgl

o7

[lone spear]

gonna try reclaim that rank 1 gally

im goin full greed

[craggy barn]

u cant tho

we lost artifact weapons in bfa

[lone spear]

https://tenor.com/view/gato-withrock-gif-27341353

[vagrant jacinth]

Legion outlaw was a weird one

Blade flurry only working on melee attacks sucked

[wintry solar]

Was still great

Loved legion outlaw

I wonder if they're giving us new abilities for legion remix

Or if we're just gonna stack a bunch of stats on the weapons like they're the cloaks from mop

[kind otter]

Is there a spreadsheet anywhere with all spec sims for new patch?

[tender wedge]

yes but it is banned

because things aren't finished and its misleading

[kind otter]

Oke ty

[tender wedge]

you could probably google it and find it idk

[empty patrol]

coinflip pirate gonna be the wild card^^

mfkin pumps

[tender wedge]

yeah im starting the season as outlaw

will pivot if i HAVE to

[tender wedge]

meanwhile some guy was in here earlier asking if it was ok to play outlaw with his tank friend because he had heard outlaw lost to tanks now and he didn't want to be a liability

[empty patrol]

bro sounds like he chocked on a troll

[tender wedge]

i think theres just dudes out there who don't know how to interpret information

and are prone to overreactingt

but also the low key benefit to playing outlaw is that all daggers go to you anyway

easy switchup

[lone spear]

its just the usual downplay, we're looking to be middle of pack next tier

like we usually are

but also i think fatebound is really fun next tier so imma play it anyway

[tender wedge]

yeah seems like a nice lil changeup, i don't know if i can ever give up perma tricks in keys again tho

[lone spear]

yea, it may still be trickster in keys

[long barn]

I think I wish KS didn’t change

[lone spear]

nah ur cooked

[empty patrol]

u need special attention

[long barn]

The new one just feels minor lol

[lone spear]

its actually quite large

the damage it does now is insane

[long barn]

Really?

[lone spear]

its basically like we got wake of ashes

[long barn]

Maybe I need to try it after the recent buffs

[empty patrol]

yes u do

[lone spear]

it was around 11% before the buffs

this week, i imagine its crazy

[long barn]

I was expecting it to be like 20

[lone spear]

(havent had time cause of mop raid and irl stuff to test it myself)

[tender wedge]

it got like a 40% then a 15% damage buff

[empty patrol]

it still sucks thats a channel/animation lock but at least u dont jump around like a bozo praying u dont get oneshotted by random mechs

[lone spear]

legit just did my last hurrah dungeon with it

and its just as bad as i remember xdd

[long barn]

Been doing greed keys all weekend

[tender wedge]

i need one more key this week, maybe i'll engineer a KS-death just for old time sake

[long barn]

lol

[empty patrol]

add that deathcount to the key

[long barn]

Does it feel slow? The new Ks

[empty patrol]

[long barn]

Like weird almost

[empty patrol]

its just safer and its all that matters

[lone spear]

it depends tbh, i personally dont mind the big payoff of a channel after pressing so many buttons for ~40sec

[empty patrol]

u want speed drive a car

[long barn]

Yea I guess

[lone spear]

some people dont like that and just wanna keep pressing buttons

7 combo point + supercharger KS is like 3ish seconds

and i think that is a biiiit much

like 2.5 max would be perfect imo

[long barn]

Why is it single target tho. I think I’m just deep down angry about target cap

I should shut up cause that’s my true beef

Yes. 2.5 would be nice. I think Zac said the same thing 1/2 second less would be perfect

[lone spear]

with how infrequent u cast it now compared to before it isnt too bad, itll add an extra 5 seconds or sumtin over an encounter

but the feel is subjective, u really gotta just cook with it and see how u go

[long barn]

Yea I might download the PtR tomorrow

I’ve been waiting out but might as well

[fair oak]

Good night outlaw chat life lowkey sucks ass but all good

[blazing bloom]

Waffle House after casino

[hasty warren]

Hi piratez

[finite arch]

Looks like no outlaw for raid

Sandbag spec

[snow stratus]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lone spear]

people like this really be losing sight of the "game" aspect

if it isnt ur job (jumpscare) to play this game, play what you like

[finite arch]

They arent even close to CE which is weird to me

If they were hardcore pushing i would understand but they never marketed themselves as such

Half the people dont even understand hoe to throw a bomb into a hole on gally which is fine but saying these things is weird

[lone spear]

yea misalligned goals are the biggest guild killers in my experience

[lime lake]

Wild times

[lone spear]

its why my guild even agonized about going from full 2 nighter to 3 nighter for first 4 weeks

like we could get HoF if we do it, but only did it cause everyone was down

[novel socket]

top 200 us makes it like top 2000 world or? 😄

[finite arch]

[lone spear]

i mean there are only 270 parses for mythic gally for aug

[proven ocean]

“Push mythic”

Let the man cook

First guy to say if aug is good too what a gamer

[finite arch]

I think he meant heroic i doubt broski has ce

[lone spear]

LOL thats wild

[finite arch]

The guild 3/8 mythic so unless he bought a boost i doubt he pugged gally on mythic

[lime lake]

Considering he went on a rant about key specs I think he probably meant m+

And just thinks of aug and outlaw as key specs that are trolling in raid

Which is a take for sure

Especially at 3/8 lmfao

[finite arch]

Sandbagging boys

[proven ocean]

People still think that only playing 1 spec wont make u the best at it

Any random top player that logs in for 1 hr is prob gonna find better info than him in 10 hours

“Pushing mythic” is wild ngl

[finite arch]

Hahahaha

[lone spear]

it makes sense if he was humble and understood his and his guilds skill

like mythic is hard for people

but hes talking like this then says "pushing mythic"

like brother your spec aint the problem

[finite arch]

They are like your slightly above average gamers which is like 3k m+ aotc and like a couple of mythic bosses which is whay i signed up for

Then theres this random dude coming out with this "push mythic" nonsense

I have seen this dude online maybe once in 3 months

[lone spear]

diabolical behaviour

[lime lake]

Incredibly based

Imagine playing a sandbagging spec like outlaw in raid

We're 3/8 pushing mythic we don't have time to play dumb shit for fun

[finite arch]

[proven ocean]

People that figure out things aren’t as common as u may think in this game

[tender wedge]

does no one understand what sandbagging is

[proven ocean]

Idk why he thinks he can be one by being a casual player who focused on aug in his summer vacation and he’ll solve the world’s problems

[finite arch]

Buzz words like this is precisely why i play wow

[tender wedge]

this is such a broader term than wow lol

[finite arch]

I know but its uses in wow is funny

[tender wedge]

im used to hearing it about salespeople not invoicing things at the end of the month so they can add it to the next month

[proven ocean]

Issue with wow is that for you to actually be a top player you 100% of the time dont even have a job and nothing to do irl

Spam the game 24/7

[tender wedge]

in fact you could say im quite the sandbagger myself 😎

[finite arch]

Wow is their job

Cashing in their disability checks

[proven ocean]

Anything below that is honestly a super huge gap in how good/bad they are

[tender wedge]

of course, it's a skill, the more time you can devote to it the better you get

practice > god given talent 99% of the time

if there's even such a thing as god given wow ability

[finite arch]

Complaining about sandbaging is hilarious when logs look like this

[tender wedge]

what even is that

[finite arch]

Mugzee

Idk about you but we aint making it to mythics

[tender wedge]

oh right i get your point now

i guess if nothing else

if you're Community Figure on max's stream

you're gonna catch WAY more heat if you say something is good and it's not

than if you say it's ok and it's great

[lime lake]

literally every person gets accused of sandbagging regardless of where they place their specs anyway so might as well do a bit of trolling

[tender wedge]

"streamer said this spec was good so i did 150 keys in 4 days to get ready for next season, it's trash i wasted my time"

[lime lake]

or be like ret and feral and just not show up at all

[tender wedge]

hmmm that's a take, i think i can get behind that

[lime lake]

[tender wedge]

who cares about ret i mean

it's going to have more people playing it than everything else put together no matter what

[lime lake]

plus its very funny to watch max randomly put it somewhere then see everyone who didnt watch start dooming about it

[tender wedge]

he said he was gonna reach out and get more info before putting the YT vid out so

i think he genuinely doesn't care

i mean i know he doesn't

but yeah not surprised if he just threw it wherever

[cinder relic]

legit nobody gaf

abt the max tier list lol

Or any tier list

I don't think anybody has ever flamed me for where I placed rogue in the tier list for example even when I am wrong

[lime lake]

there are no rogues around to flame you

[cinder relic]

I call people, both at the time, and in retrospect that ppl are delusional but that's abt it that happens from these tier lists

[lime lake]

[tender wedge]

was it you who got the "i love you" in then cut him off a list or 2 ago?

i remember someone came in with impeccable timing there

[cinder relic]

Yes

I made that meme

[craggy barn]

guy loves max, and not us

[cinder relic]

I love most of you

[craggy barn]

lol

[tender wedge]

Fair

[balmy topaz]

As long as I made the cut

I’m happy

[wintry solar]

I hope I made the cut. If not, I understand.

[shy meteor]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vivid vessel]

Does this include me

Surely it does

I'm very loveable

[jolly geyser]

[ocean imp]

Oulawbros...are we back or is it over...?

(No inbetween)

[wintry solar]

back

[ocean imp]

Fuck another season of Trickster

[wintry solar]

its okay

[ocean imp]

Oh well that's good at least

After 2 seasons of notched attempts, it's time for Soupbateman to shine

[jolly geyser]

[finite arch]

or say fuck it and roll ftb

[ocean imp]

But then again, I did not play with the new KS yet

I guess I'm sticking with Trickster if I like it, and switching to Fatebound if I don't

[willow portal]

they stole the ringing deeps, cant have shit in wow

@bright lodge ?

[ocean imp]

We have lost everything

[willow portal]

i am soooo looking forward to the KS change

every time i press it i just hope and pray that i survive

[timid portal]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[pliant wind]

u can take a nap while in KS now

[willow portal]

the dream

[dim widget]

From certified zooomer specc to grandpa simulator

[ocean imp]

I saw people say that you'd often cancel KS, how likely is that to happen now that Blizzard buffed its damage

Or do we not yet know

[vivid vessel]

you get to max cp you cancel it

or you dont

its the same shit

i think it flows better gameplay wise to cancel it

since you are just following your cp gain

and once the feedback stops you stop

[ocean imp]

I see, that's good

[haughty wigeon]

[bright lodge]

Don’t you think, sims are the only thing that is getting value from cancelling KS?

I understand it feels better when you play, but might be worse to cancel, compared to machine gameplay

[tender wedge]

It’s so close to equal on sims you can do whatever

[lone spear]

guys my gallywix kill was so bad

[tender wedge]

So you pick the thing that feels right

[lone spear]

never lucky when it counts

[ocean imp]

No problem

Unkills your Gallywix

[keen belfry]

I did not 😦 few clubs and jazz bars basically

Are we stronger tomorrow?

Aren’t most specs?

[ocean imp]

The 3 specs are but it seems that Outlaw is the least strong of the bunch

[vast frost]

outlaw does infinite dps next patch dw

[ocean imp]

Outside of phys comps at least

Wtf @grok is this true

[keen belfry]

I mean for just next week, like aren’t most specs going to just fuck up undermine

All them aura buffs

[fallow fractal]

so is our best bet to specc sub in season 3 ?

[willow portal]

i cant breach 85% uptime in dungeons, probably is still missplay some priority or sth

[keen belfry]

It’s some small misplays that add up over time

Goal should be 90

Then try and be blaster and do 95+

[haughty wigeon]

[willow portal]

is KS important for adrenaline uptime?

[keen belfry]

Ks is just very important

So ye

[willow portal]

it just feels like a loss for uptime tho

a normal finisher would be faster and then allow me to build more cp again

[keen belfry]

In a vacuum this may be true, but the fight isn’t over after you press one normal finisher

KS lets you build more coups

Coups are very good

[willow portal]

i think i keep ks and coup off cd too much

but ks is just the suicide button and coup is always at 3 stacks when i use vanish idk

[keen belfry]

KS is like, highest prio

[hardy vault]

I’m actually wondering how pug experience is gonna change which rogue spec is gonna be better in keys

[keen belfry]

Good thing 2 days from now you won’t die from it anymore

[hardy vault]

I feel like outlaw > sub because we just have damage all the time

And as sub the tank would have to pull around my timings no?

[keen belfry]

Yes pugging is easier as outlaw dps wise

[willow portal]

should i track slice and dice uptime?

[keen belfry]

No cds are easier to manage 100%

[keen belfry]

No

[willow portal]

i just feel like i dont press dispatch that often

or does the invis bte count for that too?

[keen belfry]

You do not need to track slice and dice

If it falls off you are playing wrong

[tropic zephyr]

the vision head buff will still be activated in S3 right? just maybe you can't put it on S3 pieces

[balmy topaz]

Naa it goes on s3

[daring oxide]

Extremely, the more you use KS more unseen blades more coups more cdr

[blissful zinc]

What do you change talent wise for single target for LoU bosses

Sub rogue had double my dps while less item level

[torpid fiber]

yeah

[minor tinsel]

Does fatebound KIR run killing spree in season 3?

[vivid vessel]

yes

[quaint mauve]

2 days or weeks?

[balmy topaz]

Days

[quaint mauve]

am i tweaking

[balmy topaz]

3 if you’re EU

[quaint mauve]

this entire time

i thought

s3 releases

on the 20th

idk why

i got mythic capos in the last 2 days of the patch

wow

[jolly tapir]

Best simming rogue spec

Outlaw is so back

[neat mist]

for sure never happened before

crazy stuff

[jolly tapir]

Yeah i was actually Born yesterday

[balmy topaz]

Wait for the Assa sims

[quaint mauve]

something something

fatebound fake

something something

[neat mist]

Whispyr has finally stopped sandbagging Assa sims

[jolly tapir]

I dont care about sims

[neat mist]

[jolly tapir]

I open logs hour before raid and copy that

[willow portal]

"i just click buttons" gang

[keen belfry]

Days cuh

[wintry solar]

2 Years until outlaw rework

[pliant wind]

it depends in the tank and everything

ops

wrong reply

[daring oxide]

2 years until the next countdown for the next 2 years before the next preview before the next 2 years before the release of the outlaw rework, it'll be so grand outlaw gets its own expansion in 6 years

[pliant wind]

it was for this

[mighty pivot]

WIP but I'm working on a WA which shows whether new KS will overcap CP (colour-coded) and tries to predict when you will interrupt it

[vivid vessel]

can someone sap a mob with plater and show me a screenshot

[vivid vessel]

i dont think you are using this thing right

it just shows as a normal buff for you

i need someone that uses thjis buff special thing

[mighty pivot]

oh too late

[vivid vessel]

ok ty im not crazy

[keen belfry]

are the tings on ptr

the buiffs

[vivid vessel]

it doesnt do it for you but

@mighty pivot has the same as me

where the border is one pixel off

it drives me crazy

[quaint mauve]

bro

wth

[keen belfry]

focus up

[quaint mauve]

so like what r the rules for using KS now

[mighty pivot]

is it just sap or all icons in that frame? It's hard to notice tbh but also 1 pixel off things are all over the place

[vivid vessel]

all i assume

[quaint mauve]

since its a builder

[keen belfry]

use on cd, cancel at max CP or full channel both are good

[quaint mauve]

kk

[vivid vessel]

its not hard to notice for me cause you see my triangle thing is visible behind it kekw

[mighty pivot]

why are you looking at tiny triangles instead of pressing sinister strikes?

[wintry solar]

I'll take it

[dense bolt]

ALERT @proven ocean live and also selling cargo from outlaws??

[desert tendon]

???????

[dense bolt]

His title is insane

On twitch

[willow portal]

whats the range on new ks?

[mystic mantle]

maybe ur icon pack?

[vivid vessel]

no

[desert tendon]

way better than zac bullshit titles

1000% haste

no clickbait

[torpid fiber]

On discord he'd split this up into 10 different messages

[desert tendon]

you know him well

[torpid fiber]

I have him ignored not because I hate him but because this chat is unusable otherwise

it should genuinely be in the FAQ

[daring oxide]

I did, and really sorry for replying so late ❤️

[covert kestrel]

I leave my pc for 15 minutes, come back, "423 messages since x:xx pm"

[torpid fiber]

Yeah

Ppl be pressing enter while typing as though they have adrenaline rush gcd irl

[mystic mantle]

cant think of another reason but hope you fix it, i dont have this issue using clean icons - thin pack

[mighty pivot]

there are many factors, resolution, ui scale, border thickness, icon position etc etc it's not just the icon pack

[near rock]

Can’t be worse than his music

[old gull]

fatebound tier spec mount next season

[keen belfry]

hey

[waxen scarab]

who did the interview with max?

[covert kestrel]

[covert kestrel]

Shindig

[waxen scarab]

i see

change his name to outlaw hater

[quaint mauve]

valorant makes my blood geniunely boil, im so happy i can stop in 2 days

[agile orchid]

with the new tier set, when are we going to use the 2nd coup? immediately after the finisher or are we building to 6-7 CP?

[vivid vessel]

??

[agile orchid]

I see zac and zeross using the 2nd coup immediately at low CP and I don't understand why

[covert kestrel]

youre our resident enha enjoyer, is next season really looking that rough for enha?

[quaint mauve]

im pretty sure u want to use 2 coups b4 sending vanish

and thats why

[agile orchid]

is it that urgent to send that vanish than you can't spare an extra gcd for more combo points?

[quaint mauve]

id assume so

[mystic mantle]

from outlaw-faq channel "If Coup de Grace is ready, and you're at low CP and would otherwise press :ss: Sinister Strike, send Coup early at low CP as opposed to using SS.

The goal here is to, on average, cycle through :talents_escalatingblade: Escalating Blade faster to get more Coup de Grace casts without being too disruptive to the current rotation."

[vivid vessel]

if you build with ss you lose ub stacks

also idk sometimes its just too long to build again for second coup

with this tier and trickster the rotation is too crowded idk

[agile orchid]

I see

[vivid vessel]

too much buttons to press that you dont wanna be pressing

[agile orchid]

so we're basically playing like when we abused the bug huh

[vivid vessel]

ye

[agile orchid]

that's a bit funny

[quaint mauve]

ive been playing fb in ptr

and it doesnt feel bad in keys

imo

trickster to me feels so clunky idk

[jovial sedge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[long barn]

This KS channel is trash

Laggy as hell

[quaint mauve]

i havent had any issues with it yet

[long barn]

I haven’t tried in dung

But dummies it’s terrible

[long barn]

Mark my words. They killed trick with this KS version. Why couldn’t they just take our advice and leave KS alone and just remove the teleport

[novel barn]

Practising outlaw and am relatively new, played like a month coming back from wotlk back in the days. Coming out of AR with a cd of 28 seconds on 5 target dummies, feels like I am doing something fundamentally wrong - anybody care to look and give advice? https://youtu.be/q06XP0bd7Ko?si=KeVGeBGYI8n-arc5

[quaint mauve]

it’s still strong, i just don’t like how it plays atm

[desert tendon]

I MEAN, his musics are good. But they re chaining badly

dude go from 80's french pop to 2025 kpop to 2000's rock

[keen belfry]

i havent been playing it this tier.... i just hear it does 0 dmg

but the tier set looks super cool??

im sure itll end up very fun and pretty good, as usual

enhance is super well designed spec IMO, and onl spec that rivals outlaw for fun

[quaint mauve]

enhance seems like it has too many buttons

for a numb skull like me

[junior fractal]

Are the damage amps/damage stops a more noticeable problem for us next raid? Feel like the last 2 raids were good for us but not sure what the play is this time

[keen belfry]

its offensive rotation isnt too hard, outlaw is harder by a decent bit imo

[quaint mauve]

outlaw is difficult but it doesn’t feel buttons bloated whatsoever

maybe i’m overthinking it

[keen belfry]

ye outlaw has only a few buttons you press really

its like fire mage

[quaint mauve]

i like fire mage too

[keen belfry]

SS, dispatch, bte, gs, ks bf kir rtb

i found myself as good at enhane as outlaw with like 1/4th of playtime on it, outlaw hard man

[quaint mauve]

i’m an apm junkie and outlaw fulfills all my needs

[uncut mulch]

pressing buttons is fun I agree

[quaint mauve]

the only class i’d say ive had more fun on is

SL fury warr

[covert kestrel]

i was fucking around with my enha who i havent touched since s1, and then while flying to hallowfall i went through the map and it disconnected me and now i cant use that toon

[sudden fulcrum]

you can use the unstuck thing

[covert kestrel]

dont i have to be ingame to do that

like it kicks me out as soon as i log

[sudden fulcrum]

https://us.support.blizzard.com/en/article/32275?flowTrackingId

[covert kestrel]

thanks fam

[long barn]

Same gear, doing 1 mil less on PTR

[covert kestrel]

im pretty sure that has to user error bud

[quaint mauve]

^

[glass mortar]

i see stuff like delaying kspree/vanish one or two finishers more then u probably need to but what u have happen here is not uncommon in the normal outlaw rotation even with no mistakes

u get adr off cd in like 3 finishers anyway so ur only outside it for a few seconds

if this is happening consistently then id maybe post for a log review

but this can just happen during the rotation due to rng/RtB rolls etc

[novel barn]

Thank you for looking out! Yaeh in keys it is sometimes much worse, which is really frustrating. Will have to look into it and probably get better at staying in melee/doing rotation while moving etc. Will do some more practising for s3.

[vivid vessel]

i thjink there is some issues with balancing still

[gaunt phoenix]

Impossible, wow is solved

[balmy topaz]

Naa looks balanced

[vivid vessel]

this is before second boss halls

[balmy topaz]

As TWW has shown

If one dk spec is balanced

[covert heart]

I see no issues

[balmy topaz]

The other must be bonkers

[vivid vessel]

i feel like

outlaw is getting robbed

nerfing bf everytime they buiff st

while everyohter spec in the game

destroys you in aoe

idk

[balmy topaz]

It’s fine though

Cus

We have PC

[vivid vessel]

dude

[covert heart]

Maybe they will revert it in the .5 patch and act like they never nerfed it

[vivid vessel]

the only packs i win now

are like 5 target

i dont win anything anymore

[royal ermine]

we're forever stuck paying for our sins of being good in bfa

[balmy topaz]

Yeah cus of Pc right

[vivid vessel]

yes

[balmy topaz]

Ye

Perma have to take PC

Balanced around PC and raid buffs

Ive decided im just playing outlaw in raid next tier

I cba with sub or assa

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[covert heart]

This is the way

Plus just say cant do mechanics since uptime so we can be just bots

[balmy topaz]

Although we no longer playing prism

I kinda like prism

[covert heart]

Is that raid or keys as well?

[balmy topaz]

What was the change with that other trinket

Both I think he

Ye*

[covert heart]

Oh what are we supposed to run in keys now? I been running prism

[gaunt phoenix]

prism is good