outlaw

[glass mortar]

yea it do be like that

[daring oxide]

Share details

[glass mortar]

me the few times i every try to mess around with the apl

our tcers r 2 gud

[frank finch]

heavy doubt

[craggy barn]

coup ks coup, idfk if i wrote it right, but the loss seems correct

[daring oxide]

I asked solo to try 3 target BF cp deficit cleave again with deft

And it’s a 2.4% gain

[frank finch]

wait that - 5

[daring oxide]

In 3 target fights 😁

[frank finch]

[craggy barn]

im assuming its correct bc theres no way its a gain

i just havent wrapped my head around how the apl is written to be confident in what i input

[torpid fiber]

5% loss means it's a really fucked up change

[craggy barn]

well its prioritizing putting ks in between coup

[torpid fiber]

That seems useful to know tbf

[craggy barn]

which sounds giga cursed

[torpid fiber]

Is it just casting way less KS

[craggy barn]

if im reading the report right, 1 less

[torpid fiber]

huh

[craggy barn]

idk im not entirely sure its running the logic the way im expecting it to

[proper bear]

Is container stuff removed?

[cinder relic]

It's just not worth doing

[proper bear]

Word

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah you just roll once after kir

[proper bear]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-intereasting-gif-27177481

[sullen wyvern]

right after kir?

[daring yoke]

how important is this?

as KIR you will still prioritize SS when unseen blade is guaranteed from the weakaura

[sullen wyvern]

or at 28secs remaining

[gaunt phoenix]

Ya

[gaunt phoenix]

Like 1.2% or smth

[peak dock]

Anyone knows when are we going to be able to change D.I.S.C. belt and cudgel?

[craggy barn]

i have come to the conclusion this cook is giga cooked

i just wanted a number sadge

[gaunt phoenix]

Belt- some belt of the same ilvl
Cudgel- its worse than heroic offhands, didnt check lower

[torpid fiber]

This is most of them, but you can't find the improvements if you're not willing to fail

[craggy barn]

nah i meant more in getting it set up

lol

its not doing what i want

[torpid fiber]

Ah

Hmm
Is there a tool yet that allows you to plug in an APL and set up resources and cooldown timers and visualise what the APL would press

[craggy barn]

run quick sim and look at the list

[sudden fulcrum]

sims already tell you

[torpid fiber]

No that's different

[craggy barn]

but if u mean a visual scripting for APL then no

i had an idea to do it but i got distracted and lazy

[torpid fiber]

This would be a tool for checking that your APL does what you expect it to

[sudden fulcrum]

isn't that just reading it

[craggy barn]

im assuming he wants an on the fly readout of any apl changes u make

[torpid fiber]

basically I want to be able to make test cases in an easy to use ui

"If you have x combo points and y energy and cooldowns are at abc etc., what does the APL press?" type shit

[keen belfry]

I have a flight

In 5 hours

EU chat

Am I coke

Cooked

[craggy barn]

cooked

[latent oak]

where u flying to

may aswell start syncing ur sleep with the time there ennit

[gaunt phoenix]

in case you were wondering, the effect of haste on ks seems entirely correct in simc

[next wedge]

are the datamined changes anything crazy? they seem like all the stuff i already knew about

just aura buff

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah they are all the correct changes as written in the bluepost

They just werent pushed to ptr yet

[keen belfry]

Dublin then US

[latent oak]

ooo dublin very nice

i've heard very nice things about the city centre

[keen belfry]

Dublin sucks no cap

Was there like 2 weeks ago

Just flying in for half day to fly out

[gaunt phoenix]

nice

[frail veldt]

I was in a town called Clifden and cobh when I was there and I loved it

[glass mortar]

more outlaw buffs

the Ws just dont stop

[frank finch]

do we know what other specs like that trinket

hopefully its another hotline

[gaunt phoenix]

probably not many

[frank finch]

oh our other st trinket got buffed to

in the words of solo

we are barack

[gaunt phoenix]

wtf

baited

[lime lake]

[frank finch]

it is stronger

old

new

like a 17% buff

[gaunt phoenix]

i think wowhead tooltip wont account for vers

[frank finch]

hmmm

[frank finch]

all our ops trinkets got nerfed going into s3 to

we are back

[random obsidian]

if you're a m+ only player, what trinkets would you run in s3?

i remember seeing arakara and pacemakers were good enough compared to raid trinkets, i guess gap got wider now

[grim spear]

Is there a to-do list guide for next week?

oh ic larias' updated

[bright crane]

link pls

[grim spear]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WwbpkS28CeZ7_lqqWLdumjZV7_kwJeGEUQ2O4dWenOc/edit?tab=t.0

[ocean imp]

It's crazy how Assassination always seem to shit Outlaw, and to a lesser measure, Sub

Like every other season, there will be 1 strong (not top tier but strong) rogue spec and it will be Ass

Sometiles sub starts the season strong but then falls off

I wish rogue got the mage treatement

[hidden bay]

Sub is the best prog spec like 4 out of 5 raids recently

Same this tier before they buffed sin twice

[cinder relic]

It's been the best prog spec for a majority of the time I've been a serious raider

Since like, CN lol

[full lodge]

Must be scaling issue, like with WW. Blizzard gives them a flat aura buff to start each patch and then they start falling off as everyone gets more gear

[grim spear]

was assa in amirdrassil? best prog

and assa got nerfed

[torpid fiber]

iirc it was mostly good bc it was the best PI spec at the time right?

and then it got nerfed and that was no longer true and it fell off a cliff

[novel socket]

Sound really cool is like saying yes we like it but cant talk about it = Yes

[wintry solar]

Holy cope

They say that about a lot of things

Goober

[harsh mural]

i havent played since the new HO haste build came out. looking into outlaw again for s3. has everyone moved on back to KIR?

[marble meteor]

i wish the pins were a little more clear on what we need to change, rather than what has changed.

[frail veldt]

Loaded dice

And how goes back vihor

That's p much it lol

also

the season still hasnt started

so chill

we dont want to confuse people who are still playing this season

[marble meteor]

is killing spree good enough for ST? does the cold blood change anything?

[ocean imp]

Where does this void-theme DH spec come from btw

[frail veldt]

cold blood is garbage

[ocean imp]

Is it a leak or pure speculation

[frail veldt]

but KS is good in ST yes

fatebound plays KS in st

thats how good it is

[frail veldt]

pure speculation

[marble meteor]

I had a strong feeling 🙂

[ocean imp]

Fucking hell

[frail veldt]

they didnt even buff cold blood

did they?

they just did the cooldown change

[marble meteor]

its most likely introducing a new character so they can create Void Elf DH

[ocean imp]

Yea

[frail veldt]

outlaw just doesnt have a big enough button to make value of it

[marble meteor]

just a cooldown a change

[wintry solar]

Nah

[marble meteor]

i mean isnt KS now a big button? big damage, long cd

[gaunt phoenix]

A proper summary and updated FAQ for the new season will come when they are ready, but I figured that summary would suffice in the meantime

[tender wedge]

Wrong

Instant gratification or nothing please and thank you

[marble meteor]

oh i get it, didnt mean to criticise - I was just nodding along and at the end I am like... "so do I do anything?"

[eager leaf]

How's outlaw looking for next patch?

Will they be catching up with Assassination and Sublety?

[marble meteor]

Dunno, but honestly I like the spec too much to care 🙂
But I expect ass to be top.

[eager leaf]

I play all 3 tbh

I just enjoy Rogue in general

Class is too much fun

[frank finch]

from the man himself

[marble meteor]

I wish subtlety was more fun

but i do like black powder

[eager leaf]

I am happy with it.

I like the stealth aspect of Rogue in general.

Wish their was another stealth class outside of cat tbh

[gaunt phoenix]

probably similar to this tier, a few bosses it will look good, will attempt to compete with sin in keys

[frail veldt]

what about sub though

[eager leaf]

Makes sense.

[frail veldt]

seems like sub is gona be the top rogue spec no? or is that just sim bait

[marble meteor]

aura change was enough?

[gaunt phoenix]

i'm not sure about sub in keys, perhaps it will smash low keys but the high pushers dont seem to be happy with it

[frigid cloud]

even with recent buff and fix ?

[gaunt phoenix]

i think it's more like from the design where they are so very strong in cds and so very weak outside cds

[frail veldt]

It's got like a 45 second CD lol but buffing that one ability one a class that already has very high crit chance just isn't that strong

[frail veldt]

Ah maybe it runs out of steam in long packs

I could see that

It's cool downs are very short

[gaunt phoenix]

it is doing numbers so perhaps they can make it work

[wintry solar]

Ours are infinite. Why underperforming?

[jolly geyser]

Bad spec

[wintry solar]

Woe!

How about now?

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[slate plaza]

Finally a KIR tier

[plush mesa]

posted this in assa thread already. My raidlead wants me to play sub next season because of the huge amount of dmg amps next raid. We are a WR ~800 guild. Never played sub before and just can't get the hang of it, would love to play sin or outlaw next season again. How well is it performing as of now? i know, there will be some class tuning until patch but I am generally lost on what to play next season

[slate plaza]

Law and sin are both looking good

Like last tier but stronger overall

Sub is poopoo imo

Bad feel to play, not fun and won’t be as good in keys

[plush mesa]

okey that sounds good. i still had to play sin in on mugzee reclears because of the execute and i get that but i generally play outlaw and i feel like i performe much better on it

[fathom bramble]

outlaw is looking to be at least good enough this tier imo

I think that if you really don't vibe with sub your raidlead should be able to understand

especially if you put up numbers while on law

[slate plaza]

^

A good law player who’s min maxed the spec can be top 5 on damage quite a bit

[plush mesa]

thats my hc logs on law

[slate plaza]

Those are good but depends on the source of origin, things like selling runs or hoping into pugs will let you parse way higher than reclearing w a myth guild

[plush mesa]

and thats mythic. was at the hospital on bandit and we didnt reclear fully since then. also only killed sprocket 1 time so these suck. on mugzee, we do a dmg stop at 2nd jails so yeah but overall i think i can perform well as law

[slate plaza]

Not bad

Sprocket makes sense assuming you didn’t rlly know KIR (every law player should tho)

You’ll be fine on law

[fathom bramble]

outlaw is good enough up here at W122

it'll be fine for you with those logs to just rock the law

[plush mesa]

i died on sprocket after the intermission

[slate plaza]

i feel like every season everyone says outlaw is worse than it actually is pre release in the disc, the fact people are calling it good this time is something else 💀

[fathom bramble]

I'll be glad to never see sprocket again

[slate plaza]

That whole raid had too much downtime and bullshit

[plush mesa]

yeah. also played trickster on gally because fuck KS

especially on that boss

[slate plaza]

I mean it’s my second favourite raid tho

(Aberrus is my favourite)

[fathom bramble]

I loved the raid overall

[slate plaza]

I found the bosses to be really easy and mind turning off

[fathom bramble]

I just don't like sprocket forcing me to change gear/talents to some random shit I wasn't playing

and on reclear it has been frustrating with not enough ranged or 1 person making the colors wrong

[slate plaza]

Yeah that shit was fucked up

[plush mesa]

i felt sprocket was slowing us down. thats what fatebound feels like for me

[slate plaza]

We actually started prog without enough ranged because a lot were out and we were getting fucked by drills in melee

[fathom bramble]

fun fact: Evasion blocks the drills

so you can stand in them for 10 seconds if you want

[wintry solar]

Parroting Zac rn

[slate plaza]

Zac said that?

[frank finch]

[wintry solar]

Said it's good enough

[slate plaza]

Exactly

That means we’re RWF and top of the meter pumpers this tier

[fathom bramble]

outlaw spends a lot of time at good enough

and not a lot at great

[slate plaza]

Yeah, I feel like that’s just class design with blade flurry being in the way

[fathom bramble]

in raid*

[slate plaza]

Ahh

But when they tune they cant rlly buff st without buffing all our aoe unless they nerf bf

[fathom bramble]

yeah but that's a very simple math equation to nerf BF by the right amount

[slate plaza]

Yes

But we also have a lot of free cleave so logically it doesn’t make sense for our st to be that high

[fathom bramble]

although I can see how they might still be hesitant to do it

since people see it as a nerf no matter what

[slate plaza]

That’s fair

[fathom bramble]

I also don't think our cleave pattern is necessarily a reason for our ST to be low anymore

there are specs that gain ST from nearby enemies after all

but idk

[tender breach]

so if I still decide to play trickster HO for m+ there is no change at all at the rotation etc

[slate plaza]

Sin been doing that for a while

[fathom bramble]

outlaw has kind of an old pattern problem where we have a ton of design decisions that feel like things from 6 years ago

[slate plaza]

Probably some changes

[wintry solar]

Drop SC for tea and swap to loaded and that's it

[slate plaza]

Yes

[fathom bramble]

I don't think we spam roll as much

need to double check ofc

[wintry solar]

We dont

This is OLD NEWS

Loktark

[fathom bramble]

this is your monthly reminder that we don't fit the original design goals of the target cap which was to reign in aoe burst in old dungeons

they even stated that consistent aoe sources were likely to not be capped in that ancient bluepost

[slate plaza]

That was the original goal??? (I started late shadowlands)

WHAT FUCKING BURST

[fathom bramble]

they have seemingly abandoned that old design goal given the nature of some of their recent additions to the game

but still

I stand by the idea that outlaw should have never been capped according to their original design goals

[balmy spade]

i can play outlaw and assa/sub depending on what items drop since I am the only rogue in my guild and they dont mind me playing outlaw

how's my sprocket mythic log

[lofty pike]

In my guild everyone thinks Outlaw is broken in RAID and should be nerfed

[balmy spade]

I started Mythic raiding this season, and since I had no logs, I joined a... not-so-good guild where the raid lead kept dying. Well, anyway, I got kicked out of the guild after I had an argument with him about why it's not cool to be spreading negativity in voice while raiding. After I got kicked, he told me, "You're only doing good DPS because Outlaw is broken."
These were his average logs

[brisk spear]

I mean spreading negativity in voice is no bueno

[balmy spade]

that's what I told him

he got angry at me and my best friend for pointing it out in our private channels

leading to her getting kicked immediately and him having a chat with me

[brisk spear]

Lol

[balmy spade]

yep, the chatlogs I share with him are some of the funniest I have experienced since I started gaming wow

[haughty galleon]

yall like the rotation changes for outlaw for next tier if we going fate

[lofty pike]

They call this broken and deserving a nerf, i'm Not even good xD

[pliant wind]

woah getting AR uptime in ptr seems good as KiR tbh

i always played HO at live

well, im playing 2fth

no gs

we are using this now instead SC?

or 1 lethality instead tea

[lofty pike]

Wo dont use sc anymore???

[pliant wind]

i dont remember

[normal forge]

Fate or trickster?

[pliant wind]

trickster

[balmy topaz]

We use SC

[pliant wind]

alright gonna try with sc

[haughty wigeon]

imagine not using sc with trickster tho

[balmy topaz]

I am just logging on to ptr

gimme a sec and i'll post my talents

[wintry solar]

As HO no.

[pliant wind]

oh shat forgot to change improved ambush to tight spender

anyway 95-98% uptime AR

i like it

i still hate ks duration a little

but dmg seems good good

[normal forge]

That's a lot. Share talent tree

[pliant wind]

im using these

its the same as ruby but 2fth

[gentle lotus]

How assa vs outlaw after ytd changes ? Is assa still better overall compared to outlaw ?

[pliant wind]

i'd say assa is better in m+ overall

because you know, capped

but in a good phys compo we are better i think

but meta will be nearly the same as s2

[fallen mural]

pump it @balmy topaz

[pliant wind]

ruby getting it

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[quiet ore]

on the subject of numbers, your 1fth build results are in: https://outlawmallet.com/ptr/ Probably nothing surprising, secondary-wise.

[plush mesa]

i am the only rogue aswell but my raidlead still wants me to play a more bursty class. outlaw is to flat for him

gimme some padding and i am up there

[pliant wind]

so how do you see the changes

meta goat?

[plush mesa]

so its fatebound all the way?

[mighty pivot]

are these still based on commit b7aa4b3880 like it shows? Because that's before the latest balance changes and the order should shift a bit

[willow portal]

are there any good guide videos for outlaw? i only played HO so far but i guess i have to go KIR soon?

[mighty pivot]

no video guides afaik, but on the bright side the faq here is very detailed

[jolly geyser]

can hit some dummy for abit or do LFR boss

[normal forge]

what is ur unbuff haste % ?

[pliant wind]

19

[balmy topaz]

Ohh was this the key with shin

[balmy topaz]

ST is ass

[rustic lotus]

damn is outlaw still fun to play in new patch? not much has changed yah?

[flat needle]

Less rolls and KS is now a channel, beside this not too crazy changes

[pliant wind]

yep, as i thought

we have good dmg in pulls but no dmg of "importance" as i could say

its just better sub or assa

[grim spear]

lets make ho great again

[pliant wind]

[grim spear]

imo the main problem of ho is takem

just too bad

deadweight

[pliant wind]

i think the main problem are the uptime of buffs

at s2 u had much less problems

[fluid moat]

then sub or assa ? for mplus

[normal forge]

frost dk or mm hunter

jk

[fluid moat]

have preshot this one since months

[vital wave]

hey, is there any last updated sims for the latest tuning on PTR ? for FB and Trickster ST ?

[mighty pivot]

#outlaw message

[vital wave]

you're the man, thanks bro

[pliant wind]

overall assa for the funneling and dmg profile

in st is better sub but for m+ i guess is better assa

still, we need to wait for s2 starts and hotfixes coming in

[fluid moat]

the changes are live in PTR ?

[hollow oracle]

for m+ should we be canceling killing spree?

[brisk crypt]

I guess in raid we’ll be looking at sub at start then assa again

It feels like that’s the case every tier lol

[pliant wind]

Ye

[fallen mural]

ya i was watching you guy go at it nice pumps!

[hasty warren]

pal players too

[hollow oracle]

which titan disc should be used?

for m+

[balmy topaz]

tyty

[tribal surge]

Which trinkets you think are to go in early s3?

[haughty wigeon]

U won’t be saying that

When I have my coolest fit on

[silk stirrup]

So outlaw kind of good next patch?

[hasty warren]

U can sim it

[silk stirrup]

I guess it's back to KiR due to no RtB tier set

[hasty warren]

it's between charged crystal and the crit one

[balmy topaz]

@vivid vessel might be assa rogue now for raid...

[vivid vessel]

no

[hasty warren]

MOGA

[daring oxide]

guys

we gonna let these geriatric boomers in ass channel slander us like this?!

[vivid vessel]

so real tho ..

[grim spear]

prog as outlaw any way this time

since the dagger drops from the second boss, crafting a sword isn’t really a big issue

[vivid vessel]

the issue is wasting crests

for an off hand

[grim spear]

Seems like it.

Then just dont upgrade it unless you absolutely have to play sub/assa

by the time we reach the later bosses we probably wont be short on crests anyway

for my guild

[dense bolt]

Real but also we dont take slander like that

[daring oxide]

i like glue though :9

These were my favourite candies as a kid 🙁

[olive beacon]

if I have a coup de grace then any extra unseen blade procs is wasted yes?

[vivid vessel]

yes

[olive beacon]

This explains why I am bad

thank you

[red zinc]

[daring oxide]

I liked the other emote too

[daring oxide]

Zac I had a huge urge to play Ark Survival Ascended

should i do it or not so close to new patch

[vivid vessel]

uh idk

its a weird game bro

[daring oxide]

I heard ASA is really good now

was bad when launched

but good QOL

just worried about becoming obsessed with it

[grim spear]

obsession can be one of the most beautiful things that can happen in a man's life.

[copper holly]

I heard asa became worse over time and people kept playing ase because of performance and paid mods

[near rock]

non-believer

also vai accept my friend request

[daring oxide]

Just did! sorry i never notice these things

[novel barn]

yo, just switched to KiR with ghostly strike and am trying to find a working macro to combo it with sinister or sth but cant find.. Anybody who can help?

[gaunt phoenix]

/cast ghostly strike
/cast sinister strike

[finite arch]

I put my gs on bte

[gaunt phoenix]

it should be on bte too, so you are weaving it between crackshots

[mighty pivot]

on BTE alone won't be enough for FB

[novel barn]

loool was it that easy, thank you bro

[finite arch]

Is that what we call smoking crack now?

Crackshots

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[mighty pivot]

it's what you need to do to play this spec

[novel barn]

always have gs for bte ready?

[finite arch]

Wdym by ready?

[novel barn]

have it up during the window

[finite arch]

Just macro it together and press it whenever

There probably is a minmax for it but i wouldnt worry about it

[mighty pivot]

bind it to several abilities if you macro it, you want as much uptime on GS as possible

[novel barn]

ok solid, was planning to macro to pistol shot and blade flurry

to just activate asap

[finite arch]

That works too

If you have the patience you can mavro it too all abilities

I would if i did

Put it on crimson vial fuck it

[novel barn]

haha

[gaunt phoenix]

not purposefully, it just tends to come off cooldown inside stealth a lot, so you want to be able to press it between bte's if so

[finite arch]

Are we going to have updated ilvls for nightfall stuff?

The OH mace was actually fun

[novel barn]

okayokay, then pistol shot and blade flurry should cover it. thaanks alot guys

[gaunt phoenix]

not sure

[finite arch]

Also blizzard loves to rage bait me i got mugzee fist from vault this week

Absolute last week and they gave it to me

[formal echo]

I dont like that sinister strike becomes ambush, it makes so i have 2 ambushes on mu spelbar and both light up. Can i disable that some how?

[finite arch]

If you run HO nope

[gaunt phoenix]

i think a macro will not "light up"

like /cast sinister strike

it will still ambush during audacity

!ambush

[ornate heath]

It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[gaunt phoenix]

this macro is common to cast ambush during stealth or audacity, and sinister strike otherwise

[finite arch]

But thats during HO right but what about sub windows?

Does that macro work for sub?

[gaunt phoenix]

bonusbar:1 is detecting stealth stances so will ambush during subterfuge

[finite arch]

I see

I wonder if ftb eill see play in s3 or is trck still the best for kir?

[gaunt phoenix]

Fatebound is very strong at 1 target, like 10% ahead of trickster

[finite arch]

In am m+ context

[gaunt phoenix]

so it will be used in the raid and is possibly viable in keys

trickster will still be the goto for keys but fatebound is considerable maybe

[finite arch]

Would ftb run the new ks or nah?

[gaunt phoenix]

yea it uses ks

[finite arch]

Interesting

I havent read much about the new ks but is it still our higest prio spell?

Its a cp generator noe right?

[gaunt phoenix]

it's still a finisher but then it also generates cps during the animation

[finite arch]

I see

So essentially the order doesnt change?

[gaunt phoenix]

yea

[finite arch]

Alright ty

[daring oxide]

at 2 targets, are fatebound and trickster neck and neck?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah

[hybrid crown]

That's cool I'm a bit glad they nerfed the trickster BF passive a bit so it wasn't so clear cut between the two

I thought fate intertwined should make low target count aoe good for fb

[gaunt phoenix]

btw, this trinket had some sort of proc issue, it's basically bis now

alongside sigil of the cosmic hunt

[vivid vessel]

in slice i imagine

[gaunt phoenix]

Both

[vivid vessel]

oh really

[gaunt phoenix]

ST https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eH3fRMrUsz1MwW13772tz5

Slice https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7q9NttgAEoLq39b5DdtiTN

[vivid vessel]

its prolly mega bonkers then

for other specs

[gaunt phoenix]

xdd

[vivid vessel]

might get nerfed xd

oh wow prisms is so low now

wtf happened

[gaunt phoenix]

uhhhhhhh

i forgor the apl

[vivid vessel]

noob

this crit thing being good on outlaw makes no sense no ?

[gaunt phoenix]

i guess it's just a lot of stats

[vivid vessel]

outlaw is prolly one of the spec with the worse crit in the game rn or

[stiff hawk]

!ambush

[ornate heath]

It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[daring oxide]

which boss this from?

loom?

[hasty warren]

outlaw stats belike

[vivid vessel]

i guess we have the advantage of liking stats always

instead of specific moments

but ye

if this is good for us

its prolly bonkers for everyone else

[hasty warren]

is there another dps spec with vers as main stat ?

[vivid vessel]

fire i think sometimes

otherwise i dont think so

well sub a bit

[hasty warren]

it's not haste ?

[vivid vessel]

idk

changes from tier to tier

[finite arch]

Arcane 2nd prio stat after hast is verse

Fire is hast mastery

[vivid vessel]

sometimes they are vers stacker

ok

[finite arch]

According to archon

[inland acorn]

it's haste mastery for sunfury, haste vers for frostfire

[lone spear]

think frost as well doesnt mind vers

[finite arch]

On the bright side we dont have to regear for pvp

[lone spear]

aint nobody play that minigame

[finite arch]

It really is at this point

[lone spear]

dude doing 5v5 arena in mop classic is so funny

its a clown fiesta

[inland acorn]

Last time i touched PvP was in BfA to get the blood thing

[lone spear]

but actually kinda dope

[finite arch]

Heard people.were crying about the wbosses

Some dude on forums was screaming for gear rollbacks

[lone spear]

they arent meant to drop the tier because tier isnt out

it comes out with heart of fear

[finite arch]

From sha? Thought they onlu dropped pvp

Unless galleon does

[royal ermine]

farming blood on 3 characters was so mind numbing esp as a pvp hater

[finite arch]

T-minus 2hrs till trading post reset

Hope theu give us something good

[hasty warren]

the only other spec I know with vers as main stat is rsham because heal scaling is weird

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix you are using depth on weapons also in these sims idk if that w9ould change anything tho

prolly not

[proven ocean]

[fervent garden]

stupid question : wtf is the difference between a ST build and one that specifically says cleave? i hear 'cleave' all the time and don't know what it exactly specifies. thanks in advance.

[proven ocean]

bleed build op?!?!?!?

infinite dps

breaking the galaxy

conqueroring mars

jupitor bleed dmg

[vivid vessel]

Are you talking about assa

[fervent garden]

outlaw

[hybrid crown]

Crit is really more their main stat due to resurgence

[vivid vessel]

When do we ever say that for outlaw tho

[hybrid crown]

I imagine they run more vers in big keys for the tankiness tho

[fervent garden]

maybe im wrong in where im seeing it but still dont really know what it specifies

[vivid vessel]

Idk it kinda depends on context I think

In general people refer to cleave as you doing st damage and cleaving it to nearby mobs

But people also refer cleave as low target count AOE

[fervent garden]

ahhhh

ok the nearby mobs is what i was missing

in regards to ST

[vivid vessel]

And a cleave build could be whatever it kinda depends on the context

[fervent garden]

gotcha

thx Z

[daring oxide]

show talents

[proven ocean]

gapped zorthar

so idk

kinda crazy ngl

[daring oxide]

this still does ST?

damage

[buoyant stratus]

prebuff arakara 16

[daring oxide]

i thought bleed builds were garbage for ST

[desert tendon]

hello is that the new outlaw build?

[proven ocean]

ur build censi

[pale cedar]

BOIS i need to make sure if im garbage or is it normal but u should technically have AR almost 100% uptime during a dungeon correct?

[fair oak]

95% or so in good runs usually

Idk if you can have 100% showing on details but the closer you are to that the better

[daring oxide]

send this to Assa channel zeross so their baddies can cry and complain

since they cant get their dps above 3mil overall in current tier

[proven ocean]

assa is quite op in ptr

ngl

bleed build is pumping giga hard

all the double dipping buffs is making it crazy op in aoe

[normal forge]

where is the rogue one?

[proven ocean]

@daring oxide

look at how cool this looks like

9% singular focus

lmao

[daring oxide]

this is bleed build?

[pale cedar]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[daring oxide]

ah using sanguine blades

[proven ocean]

ye

[daring oxide]

wtf

so you just stay above 150?

[proven ocean]

double dpsing zorthar

[pale cedar]

aight bet so im garbage then KEKW

[daring oxide]

jesus

[proven ocean]

on few pulls

most pulls im giga nuking

[daring oxide]

but

is it troll on ST?

just good on aoe?

[proven ocean]

i think with this aoe its fine to have bad st

its doing like 3m st

which is fine i think? idk

i didnt see how ppl do st

is it 3m or 4m thats good?

[vivid vessel]

bro the difference in casual streams

since assa is good

dude is perma smilling now

so funnty

[daring oxide]

hahahaha

[proven ocean]

i hate the tier set consuming mark

[daring oxide]

@dense forge you happy?

[proven ocean]

prob need some time to get used to it

[vivid vessel]

bro he is so happy

[daring oxide]

you playing DS or FB?

with this bleed buld

ah nvm

[proven ocean]

DS

[daring oxide]

i see in the talent pic

[white marten]

Do you have to preserve vanish for re-application?

[covert kestrel]

i think assa disowned fb

as they should

[vivid vessel]

fb is like 10% ahead in st for assa now

they wont have a choice but to play it in riad

but ye

whyspyr is a big fb hater

but fb is so bad

[glass mortar]

Based

[daring oxide]

i agree FB is so bad

[white marten]

Probably better. Deathmark mad clunk in some raids in the past

[daring oxide]

shame really

just buffing a terribly designed hero talent to be meta to force people to play unfun stuff

[white marten]

Lmfao the blizz way

[daring oxide]

ya

they dont fix stuff

they just throw big numbers at broken things

although the CB fix is probably good

but in the grand scheme of things, its such a simple fix

its not like its an amazing piece of work

hero talent = bad design = we fix by aura buff

[white marten]

0 shot assa doesnt get nerfed. That AoE is absurd

[dense forge]

super happy

[covert kestrel]

super happy that assa will get nerfed and we can all go back to outlaw where we belong ❤️

[proven ocean]

fb isn't bad

i like fb assa in m+

kinda nice but

issue is coin 12 sec duration

[daring oxide]

same 🙏

[white marten]

Fb in m+ 👀

Never thought id hear those words in the same sentence

[vivid vessel]

Ye losing 20% prio damage in aoe

I mean maybe assa can do that since it has infinite funnel anyways

But imagine outlaw doing that kekw

[white marten]

Na

[daring oxide]

well assa funnel only works in DS right?

if they are FB they dont have singular focus

correct me if im wrong

[vivid vessel]

They have more energy in AOE, and the agi per rupture out talents

[daring oxide]

oh ok

yes true

[vivid vessel]

And cp gen

[daring oxide]

i guess thats why sanguine blades works so well then

infinite energy and cp gen so

[white marten]

Ye

[daring oxide]

but having poopoo ST makes me a lil sad

but yeah giga AOE outweighs that

Outlaw could be similar if they make MG give us energy back 🙂

[white marten]

Give outlaw rupture back

[daring oxide]

just kidding

oh yeah do that

and bladeflurry spreads rupture

and give it smart dotting

[white marten]

Thats where the energy comes from 😌

[daring oxide]

that would be sick!

[white marten]

Cant wait to reset new tier 11 delve boss 50x while trying to solo it.

10/10 class design

They should make feign death part of the hunters rotation

[hybrid crown]

cant wait to ignore it until I have a bunch of myth gear then kill it in like 3 tries

oh that would be a problem with gear too i guess

[white marten]

You mean, 10 tries? Because you will reset the boss in 9 of those attempts

[fallow hinge]

pets cover that for everyone except MM

so even if it was, no resets unless you play dead too

[shy meteor]

So after buffs rogue looks kinda good and Assa looks likes the most competent for m+?

[white marten]

Both ! 😎

[white marten]

All 3 are looking good in m+ imo

[fallow hinge]

really looking forward to Ky'veza delve nemesis tho

[shy meteor]

Noice

[white marten]

The mount is sick

[covert kestrel]

my rule of thumb is "if you have to ask, you can play whatever"

[fallow hinge]

yeah it actually looks real nice which is a pleasant change

from the other atrocities

[white marten]

U didn’t like the gold one?!

Gasp

[fallow hinge]

or the void one

[white marten]

I didnt like the void one. I liked the gold one cuz its pretty comical

On the ridiculous meter

[white marten]

Tell that to the pugs that keep declining me in their 10 key for playing frost mage 💀🤣

[fallow hinge]

your fault for playing frost instead of the way more fun arcane :3

[white marten]

Arcane with pugs is pretty miserable

Tanks could care less about your CDs

And Pull 2 mobs

Frost is much more flexible

Am i crazy or did Zac get gapped by a fury war in his latest stream? We’re in truly dark times

Nvm nvm im crazy.

[vivid vessel]

what

every fury i have played with the past few days i did litteraly twice their damage

i think you are crazy

[fallow hinge]

but zac

what about the furry warriors

do you outdps them

[white marten]

Yeah thats what i said 😌

[white marten]

I heard those need a nerf

[warped mantle]

fury p good

thunderblast uncapped go brrrr

if u get like 3-4 resets

[cinder relic]

[neat mist]

???

Kush putting Outlaw in S+ purely just to try and get them nerfed

[sudden fulcrum]

Why is there only one tank

[covert heart]

Because prot is the only tank we worry about!

That or monk can come but no other tank is real

[daring oxide]

yes

battle shout > all other tanks

[warped mantle]

outlaw is s+ tier

u think otherwise?

[daring oxide]

outlaw is probably S+ tier yeah

fucking blaster

[warped mantle]

agree

u beat every dps on ptr

[daring oxide]

Assa rogue right now is SSR+ tier

[warped mantle]

especially on first pull

[daring oxide]

but they are gonna get big nerf

[warped mantle]

outlaw first pull gambit

is very strong imo

we can almost beat the tank

[balmy topaz]

I hope they nerf Assa

I don’t want to play it

[white marten]

They will nerf it

[daring oxide]

tbh

thing with assa is weird

most of their players are cooked beyond belief

ive never seen an assa rogue in any key do Zeross or Casual's level of dps

most of them are just sloppy fucking noodle gamers doing tank damage

[sudden fulcrum]

If you only play one spec in a class you are the one that is cooked

[daring oxide]

but the dps potential of assa is definitely high

[daring oxide]

multispec freakazoid m8

[proven ocean]

🙂

[covert kestrel]

give outlaw daggers and ill play the other spec

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/freakazoid-freak-gif-4302491

[covert kestrel]

(sub)

assa aint real

[daring oxide]

but its true anyhow with any spec

[sudden fulcrum]

Sub is cool

[daring oxide]

only small minority of players will actually play the specs at their true potential

most are just soggy noodles bringing shame

and thats fine

we all know whos the degens 🙂

[white marten]

This is true for all specs, though

[daring oxide]

ya

but for some reason

assa seems to have more

dunno

just throughout this tier every key ive joined with an assa rogue

basically doubled their dps with same ilvl

maybe i got really unlucky

[white marten]

Im shocked whenever i see a boomie not topping meters. Like bro its 3 buttons

[daring oxide]

but what you see in streams from top players is not a reflection of what to expect from your average assa player

[white marten]

For sure. Especially assa. That has a lot going on in AoE

Specially in high keys

[proper bear]

Let’s not forget about frost mages or warriors. I somehow summon their dead into keys

[white marten]

what?

[wind citrus]

are there any raid st sim dps sheets

[white marten]

There are but its pretty useless data. Tuning is still happening

Wait until like September 😅

Wake me uppp
When September endsss

[proven ocean]

osrs community is better than wow i think

anyone who's half known or any sort of way is always very good

and doesn't cook

[fair oak]

https://imgur.com/BNiNkT2

[wintry solar]

Where outlaw buffs

And rewrok

Gimme

[loud wing]

Anyone got a link to the spreadsheet with every specs ST sims?

[blazing bloom]

https://wowanalyzer.com/report/3VjAnwdCqYMLNPcD/4-Mythic++The+Rookery+-+Kill+(23:22)/Lilpapafudge/standard/overview

If anyone has a moment could you look this over

I’m trying to see what are my most glaring weaknesses

[jovial sedge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gaunt phoenix]

it feels like you're sending a lot of pistol shots in stealth

ambush has priority

pistol shots are used to proc ambush when ambush is not available

[plucky lantern]

Does anyone have recommendations on the best racials for outlaw? I’m considering changing and am unsure if it’s worth doing so. My rogue is currently a troll.

[gaunt phoenix]

you have a lot of accidental double casts

This destroys your dmg

[frail veldt]

Yeah I think the specs that tend to have "bad players" for a given rating tend to be the specs that are brought for some class utility and not just doing good damage

[gaunt phoenix]

see alot of finishers at low cp as well

[gaunt phoenix]

racials are not really a big deal, dwarf is common because it is the most dps (crit damage bonus) and stoneform utility

tauren also has the same crit dmg bonus

[plucky lantern]

Is shadowmeld from nelf worth considering?

[wintry solar]

Tauren also has a /moo line

[blazing bloom]

Solo thank you so much for real

Thank you for taking the time to help me out

[keen belfry]

Solo how many fights do you think we will fatebound

[gaunt phoenix]

shadowmeld is going away in 5 days i think

it is technically good in keys

[plucky lantern]

Thanks for the insight!

[daring oxide]

honestly i make this mistake more than i wish not to, i think ive had issues with spellqueueing recently

[dim widget]

someone lets this man tank/heal a key with all 3 rog speccs present rn

[keen belfry]

Lowering my spell Q helped but I still do it sometimes

[daring oxide]

especially with dispatches

yeah

I tried like 220-400 spell queue before

and found myself accidentally double casting a lot

well not alot

but frustrating when i know it happens

[keen belfry]

I’m like 215 I think

Maybe lower I forget

[vivid vessel]

wdym

[daring oxide]

hmm

[vivid vessel]

they are just adding the pot

its not going away

[gaunt phoenix]

i see

[slate forge]

Is the new potion as buggy as shadowmeld for restealths? If it’s reliable would that be more dps than a dps potion

[gaunt phoenix]

im not sure

[vivid vessel]

true

i didnt think about that

[plucky lantern]

Hey y’all, if I’m looking to push high level keys should I be prioritizing enough haste to run Keep it Rolling or is it ok to ignore it and talent around Hidden Opportunity?

[gaunt phoenix]

next season HO is a bit behind

[frail veldt]

Wait wdym

[dim widget]

play different class

[gaunt phoenix]

nothing

im wrong

it's not going away

[frail veldt]

Bro don't scare me like that

[daring oxide]

wait can someone confirm this pls lol

[keen belfry]

I hear shadow meld is going away is that true

[dim widget]

no, but everyone gets it as a pot

[keen belfry]

That’s not what I heard chadlaw

[daring oxide]

will that pot activate subterfuge??????????

[frail veldt]

Even if it did it's worse than battle potion

There's no way

[gaunt phoenix]

would it

[daring oxide]

would it?

[frail veldt]

And it might

[daring oxide]

are u sure

[glass mortar]

Ok but how shit us battle potion for us

[daring oxide]

subterfuge window is giga

[glass mortar]

Solo where sim of pot vs no pot

[frail veldt]

Nah

[daring oxide]

tempered pot sucks ass

[frail veldt]

As someone who plays night elf

[dim widget]

oh btw is it worth farming that bubbling wax poison thingy

[frail veldt]

Which is only 2 min CD

[dim widget]

or is that a meme

[gaunt phoenix]

it doesnt have to be good, it has to beat tempered potion

[glass mortar]

Tempered potion which for many people isn't even giving vers

[frail veldt]

I feel like tempered is so strong though and lasts pretty long

[glass mortar]

Is it strong tho

[white marten]

Is it tho

[frail veldt]

Yeah I guess maybe not

[glass mortar]

Culd sim it

Pot vs no pot

[frail veldt]

Lol gona be hilarious when the restealth fails like meld does

All my years of meld practice are gonna pay off

[dim widget]

no because noone will invite rog into a key

[slate forge]

Meld fail -> pot fail -> altf4 success

[daring oxide]

so strong?!

does nothing m8

[keen belfry]

Sup vai

[gaunt phoenix]

5 minutes

[daring oxide]

see

[gaunt phoenix]

1 minute

[daring oxide]

pot suck ass

[frail veldt]

Yeah how much do you think meld ads

[stiff vector]

it would actually be comical if the potion does work for restealth and is more dps than tempered...would really be an indictment on just how bad our stat scaling is that since we run vers flask and pot cant give us vers lol

[daring oxide]

100%!

[vivid vessel]

ok maybe

we play that pot

[frail veldt]

Lololol

[vivid vessel]

it would be quite funny

actually

[frail veldt]

It's gonna be hilarious

[plucky lantern]

So wait shadowmeld does trigger subterfuge currently?

[gaunt phoenix]

test it zac !

[daring oxide]

@vivid vessel go research!

[vivid vessel]

i can buy it already ?

ok

next key

if i dont forget

[glass mortar]

is lfr on ptr or any raid shit rn

i guess u can just test vs dungeon boss

[gaunt phoenix]

not directly. you have to shadowmeld and then recast stealth, and this only works on trash not bosses

but it's buggy it doesnt always work

[glass mortar]

works the same as raid bosses right

usually

[daring oxide]

btw really serious question, I'm trying to unlock this hidden appearance, and i have to do 200 world quests, but whenever i do a legion world quest it doesn't go up (the tracker), what am i suppose to do???:

[gaunt phoenix]

panic

[dense bolt]

its very scuffed that one

i just randomly got it

but also do u have the legion artifact equipped?

[daring oxide]

i was wondering that

is that true?

[dense bolt]

i had it just always equipped and it just randomly worked

[daring oxide]

you randomly got it?!

[dense bolt]

no it randomly worked

[daring oxide]

like you didn't do the full 200 with it equipped?

[dense bolt]

like it started ticking

when i did wqs

[daring oxide]

oh

but you purposely aimed to get this appearance?

so you put on the artifact weapon and started legion wqs

[dense bolt]

yes but it for sure didnt take 200 quests

[daring oxide]

i need to go and get my artifact weapon then

[dense bolt]

yes

[daring oxide]

ah ok

ill give it a go

thank you

fingers crossed then

[dense bolt]

i talked to mitch alot about this wep

he knows alot of things and hacks

to get it faster

dont remeber them all

https://imgur.com/I3vEppQ equip the right one

[daring oxide]

ok gg

so the green one

need to find the weapons..

cant remember where i stashed them wtf

[dense bolt]

you find the thingy

in dalaran

u put the coin on the desk

and enter

[gaunt phoenix]

plexus, loomithar, fractilus?

[keen belfry]

Ty cuh

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe nexus king shaladingdong

idk

[keen belfry]

New boss name kinda lit

[spare dome]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[plucky lantern]

When the FAQ says to have 18% haste for KiR does that mean including raid buffs as well or without?

[gaunt phoenix]

there are no haste raid buffs

It's your haste from gear and flask

[vapid sundial]

Pi

[deep sand]

wait, you guys are getting PI in raid?

[vapid sundial]

Yeha on my shaman

[gaunt phoenix]

someone sending PI on outlaw is a misclick

but anyway it's your haste that you have permanently just standing the idling

the reason you want 18% (technically 19%) is so you reach 25% after alacrity, which maxes out the gcd reduction from adrenaline rush

[mental harness]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vivid vessel]

give me meld macro

@gaunt phoenix

!!

[vapid sundial]

@vivid vessel

You dono walled me

[gaunt phoenix]

/stopattack
/cast shadowmeld
/cancelaura shadowmeld
/stopattack
/cast stealth
/targetlasttarget```

this is mewo's

i think you hit it twice? @frail veldt

speak

[frail veldt]

Yes

All meld macros require multiple presses

I put it on scroll wheel actually

[vapid sundial]

Make a macro that presses that button you have it on twice

So you only need it once

[frail veldt]

haha

also it helps to turn your character away

idk why

I think it has something to do with swing timers being fucked up

[gaunt phoenix]

cursed

[frail veldt]

cuz if you try to juts use it while auto attacking youll break it

[gaunt phoenix]

i hate meld

greatly

[frail veldt]

or if you use it after a ps

the pses will break it

[gaunt phoenix]

i do not want a stealth pot that emulates meld

[frail veldt]

or anything that hits multiple times really

meld is not for the faint of heart lol

im just so used to it from pvp

[vapid sundial]

Remove outlaw stealth gameplay

[frail veldt]

whats funny is it works better in pvp

[frail veldt]

THIS

[vapid sundial]

Let me be my swashbuckler

Which we won't have

Ever again

[gaunt phoenix]

you will

[vapid sundial]

I like a bish

[gaunt phoenix]

bfa classic

[vapid sundial]

Ambush

Ong

TROUUUU

Bfa classic make me go boing boing

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix

[frail veldt]

meld used to be even worse when we still had subt bug

and you had to break stleath with a builder

[gaunt phoenix]

dont tell me it works

[vivid vessel]

[gaunt phoenix]

shut !

[vivid vessel]

idk about bosses tho

i will try

[frail veldt]

LOL

no way it works on bosses

why would it

[gaunt phoenix]

what's the pot called

[frail veldt]

its the "solo's gona hate this battle potion"

[gaunt phoenix]

i have to implement it into simc now

[frail veldt]

whats meld worth in the sim

[gaunt phoenix]

idk