outlaw

[haughty wigeon]

I probably will

[frank finch]

luckly i dont care about ks channel

im good

[daring oxide]

@gaunt phoenix do we still cancel KS after buff? 😂

[haughty wigeon]

He’s gonna scream about how’s actually a nerf compared to last season probs not

Even tho it’s a net buff

[naive river]

the facy you can still fient during it is huge

[haughty wigeon]

Cause apparently

[naive river]

fact

[haughty wigeon]

Those types of nerfs matter

[frail veldt]

even before buff I think it was close

[torpid fiber]

There's 0 shot

[haughty wigeon]

For some reason

[frail veldt]

but yeah im guessinng now we def dont

[fathom bramble]

sprint/hook and all other defeensives too

[torpid fiber]

it was 0.4% pre-buff iirc

[frail veldt]

not being able to kick kinda sucks though

[daring oxide]

And we take KS for fatebound ST too right??

[runic gulch]

I mean sure, reduce the channel duration of it and have the total damage land faster, that’s fine, but complaining that KS now actually possibly does enough damage to actually make the ability worth it seems like an odd take idk

[torpid fiber]

KS would need to be doing like 2.5% overall for kt to not be worth cancelling it

[haughty wigeon]

Like

[naive river]

yea we can hope friday that changes

[frail veldt]

it was always worth

[haughty wigeon]

Canceling was a sub 1% gain

[gaunt phoenix]

Now you will macro [nochannel] into your spells so you don't have a large gcd delay after ks finishes

Cuz you cannot spell queue out of a channel

[frail veldt]

so thats not really a relevant point

KS has never been not worth to press

[haughty wigeon]

That surely this buff makes you not cancel it

[frail veldt]

its core to trickster

even if it did 0 damage wed probably press it

[runic gulch]

I mean worth not cancelling it the moment you hit max cp

[torpid fiber]

The thing was that you cancelled it when it got you to max combo points, and after that point the ability is meaningfully lower value per duration

[frail veldt]

oh sure

[pliant wave]

Why do Blizz keep nerfing Blade Flurry damage while buffing single-target? Stop with the preemptive nerfs already.

[frail veldt]

I think the other big miss with KS is that it hits random targets

[daring oxide]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL GG

[frail veldt]

this is like explicitly a negative

[unborn basin]

six days until patch .. anything can change, here's to hoping

[gaunt phoenix]

They think trickster aoe is enough

[frail veldt]

and frankly theres no reason for it to hit random targets

itd be fine if it was pure aoe

[runic gulch]

The lack of prio sucks tbh

[frail veldt]

and itd be fine if it only hit main

[torpid fiber]

ugh

awesome gameplay!!!

[frail veldt]

but hitting random is just objectively the worst option

[runic gulch]

Also in PvP, was great as a knockback immunity

[frail veldt]

which is like a ???? change

[frail veldt]

and a root break

gona miss taht

[torpid fiber]

so wait
Can I spellqueue nochannel macros out of a channel or do I have to actually quit the spec

[frail veldt]

no

[stiff vector]

I mean, pretty damn underwhelming and disappointing changes. Doesnt change the fact Fatebound is unplayable in anything but pure ST, or the fact that ST as trickster is still going to be bad, and even Fatebound's ST is still on the lower end sim wise
with the buff. Further buffing KS just makes our prio dmg even worse as well.

[frail veldt]

afaik

[torpid fiber]

Fuck I guess I'm quitting the spec

[daring oxide]

@gaunt phoenix honestly I knew this would happen eventually, that we would have to bring out the nochannel macro

[frail veldt]

you may want to fact check me on that

[lime lake]

im sorry everyone

[frail veldt]

but I remember that being an explicit complaint in the spriest discord

[torpid fiber]

I press all my shit 300ms early and once per gcd, no way i can make ks work

[frail veldt]

oh dayum

[lime lake]

have fun with that channel

[torpid fiber]

Dogshit game design moment

[frail veldt]

you dont mash?

thats fucking WILD

also

[torpid fiber]

No mashing

[frail veldt]

its okay

i already talked through this with zac

dont use the channel check

just time your ability 300ms before

[random stirrup]

[frail veldt]

the natural latency can be your buffer

[torpid fiber]

I don't have 300 ping tbc

[frail veldt]

just dont hit it early

[random stirrup]

(that is the full reduced by 8% search btw)

[torpid fiber]

I just press buttons 300ms early

or so

[frail veldt]

all you have to do is time your button press

[torpid fiber]

Because that way if I'm late I don't lose dps

[frail veldt]

so if you have 150ms then press a button 140ms before ks ends

and youll land it with only 10ms delay

[torpid fiber]

Epic game design blizzard!!!@

awesome stuff!!!

[daring oxide]

I use around 220 spell queue now

[torpid fiber]

I have always played 400 and I actually use all 400 is the thing

[daring oxide]

Used to use lower but missed gcds sometimes so just made it higher

[thorny reef]

more buffs yay

[frail veldt]

thats so wild to me

[daring oxide]

Getting older 🥲🥲🥲

[frail veldt]

old news

[stiff vector]

8% WW buff kinda crazy tbh, their ST sim should be pretty high up there now.

[covert heart]

Gotta change your 69% to something else now

[naive river]

65.5%

[daring oxide]

I still want it to be 69% as the ultimate goal when Pitt ends

[torpid fiber]

It basically works out that my reaction times are somewhat close to the amount of time after a gcd in ADR that the next 400ms sqw opens, so I can kinda just press shit on reaction and it works out

[daring oxide]

Ptr

[covert heart]

Its more than that due to fb if we talking about raid single target if keys than yea

[daring oxide]

@gaunt phoenix are we saved, we need a pin

[torpid fiber]

I guess because KS gives so much time in the channel it won't be too bad to time one gcd

[daring oxide]

📌

[mild vigil]

I need my opinion

[mild vigil]

how else am I supposed to think if I don't have someone else's opinion to go off of

[haughty wigeon]

Could be worse

[daring oxide]

We just play so much haste the channel becomes one gcd

[haughty wigeon]

They made the ability that does 1% of my overal

Do 2%

HUGE

[torpid fiber]

Like in my head I was thinking about having to time my gcds during normal rotation, but KS gives so long to know what I'll press next that I can just focus on getting the timing right

Only worry is that I'll fuck it up too often

[daring oxide]

Well with nochannel macro that’s easier

I guess

On all your abilities!

😂

[torpid fiber]

I think it's likely I won't play nochannel tbh, and I'll just accept clipping the last hit

I'll have to see, but I bet I'll miss more dps missing gcds by using nochannel than I would by clipping early

[daring oxide]

I think they should just get rid of the channel now

[naive river]

New KS will be some learning pains but I believe you'll get it down

[daring oxide]

And just make killing spree equivalent to two gcds

So we can spell queue

Again

[fathom bramble]

not like you could queuee out of old ks either

it sucks, but it's not new

[daring oxide]

Yeah

Oh well

[torpid fiber]

yeah but I skipped this season bc of my wrists

Either way I'll figure smth out

[daring oxide]

But at least we can mash thanks to nochannel

[fathom bramble]

understandable

[verbal pumice]

They should just change Ks to dropping a spinning cannon like from RuneScape

[daring oxide]

So it’s a simple solution

[torpid fiber]

I'll sim how much I lose by clipping the last tick of KS and see if that's acceptable to me

[daring oxide]

I think there is a hold key down cast option?

In game in wow?

In settings

Does that work

[torpid fiber]

Iirc it's dogshit

[mild vigil]

I think that's just for empowered spells

[daring oxide]

Oh I see

[torpid fiber]

And also it isn't the issue

[mild vigil]

so evoker only

nvm

[torpid fiber]

My main bad wrist is my mouse hand

[daring oxide]

Ah ok

[torpid fiber]

Not my rotation hand

It's fine, I have solutions for it

or well, ways to mitigate it

but either way it's fine
Even before wrist issues popped up I wasn't a masher

just not how my brain works

[torpid fiber]

I wonder if we can do the ff14 macro thing where you put a /cast of the same ability 13 times in the macro so it tries to cast it 13 frames in a row

[neat mist]

I love the very carefully calculated 3.5%

not 3

not 4

That would just be silly

3 point five

[covert heart]

They threw a dart and it landed in between

[daring oxide]

It’s to activate angry Zac

[fathom bramble]

they are probably increasing the aura from 16% to 20%

which is 3.44%

[torpid fiber]

Does anyone know what the current overall% of dps is for ks rn so I can do some quick maths?

[white marten]

OUTLAW ON TOPPP

[neat mist]

LET'S GO

WE ARE SO BARACK

[fossil lintel]

Why do they keep buffing KS and ignore our feedback on duration? Do they really want us to sit through a 5s channel?

[chilly atlas]

trying to bring the apm more in line with other specs, lul

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not 5s

[ornate rune]

Yes? Maybe?

Is there a Rouge dev?

[fossil lintel]

It is before haste

[covert heart]

I really dont think the channel is that big of a deal

I am glad they are buffing it

[fossil lintel]

The channel is completely at odds with the rest of the gameplay for the spec and how it has played for the past 2 years

[daring oxide]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3LcqUbF1xSy7K7wDUwoL2r/simc

[silver sluice]

yeah its good, it helps ST and buffs cleave slightly so it's an easy buff. We need ST help still 100%

good buff

[covert heart]

I mean orignal ks is pretty much a channel already this one is just a tad longer

[fathom bramble]

sure, but a longstanding complaint about old KS was the duration being so long after the finisher rework

[daring oxide]

KS was previously like 8% of our overall damage in ST

It’s probably now like 10%

[fathom bramble]

it's not a surprise to seee people disliking an even longer channel

[torpid fiber]

Ty

ok so it's probably like a 1-1.5% loss if I always clip the last tick which sucks ass but is acceptable enough for my aspirations I think

[stiff vector]

yea im glad theyre throwing more bandaids on the problem, instead of just nerfing the channel time(which weve been giving them feedback about since day 1). Shoving more dmg into KS doesnt make the channel feel any better, and it makes our prio dmg even worse.

[daring oxide]

@gaunt phoenix is killing spree also being buffed by the aura buff too?

[covert heart]

Damn get buffs and people immediately complain

[olive marten]

Just think of it as grieftorch. We willingly channeled that because it did big damage. Same thing 🙂

[gaunt phoenix]

probably

[daring oxide]

So it’s 15% to KS plus the 3.5% from Aura

So what’s that in total

I can’t math

For KS specifically

[fossil lintel]

This is the fastest spec in the game with a near permanent 0.8s GCD, a long ass channel is literally bad gameplay design that doesn't cater to the same audience as the rest of the spec

[daring oxide]

I sleep

https://tenor.com/view/eepy-sleep-how-i-go-to-bed-sleep-cat-gif-12050577770809276341

[covert heart]

But the previous ks was still a thing we had to do where we could do nothing else

[craggy barn]

look, they just want to give our hands a bit of a break

[torpid fiber]

I'm a dps minmaxer but also I recognise that I do not have the braincells to be able to consistently time to not clip ks

[fossil lintel]

And we complained about old KS daily as well

[covert heart]

Like its gotta get old being a doomer all the time

[olive marten]

You’re not wrong, the high apm is definitely a big draw to the spec. Have you used it on ptr yourself? It’s really not terrible if I’m being honest

[craggy barn]

old KS had a bunch of other issues not tied to its fake channel

[red zinc]

.5% dps is funny icl

[fossil lintel]

I did early in the PTR, the channel felt super long with me clipping it at 7cp.

[red zinc]

They arent tuning precise enough to be throwing out .5s

nephews thinkin too hard

[covert heart]

I think its fine on ptr yea a little slower but whatever

[covert kestrel]

Someone ping me when zac wakes up tomorrow and sees the changes

[wintry solar]

No

[red zinc]

Mayb im wrong but I feel like aura changes arent multiplicative in patch notes

[torpid fiber]

They're inconsistent

[latent oak]

they are i think

[high girder]

personally i think i would have less issues with KS channel if it didnt target random shit in range on each shot. Otherwise theme wise I enjoy leaning into the gunslinger pirate stuff

[fathom bramble]

whether they are or are not is almost eentirely random

[red zinc]

Fair enough

[stiff vector]

its not "doomer" for criticizing the fact that they took 10 years to rework one of the worst abilities in the game that actively killed you, and they reworked it into an ability that has numerous glaring design flaws, and havent iterated on those flaws despite them being pointed out quickly. Buffing KS more doesnt fix anything.

[covert heart]

I mean we just get a buff and first people do is complain its doomer

[dawn talon]

because these buffs completely miss the real issue

[wintry solar]

I can't believe theyed actually nerf pur aoe again

[craggy barn]

its sad they quickly iterated breath of sindragosa and havent done much for new ks

this is just what they want i guess idk

[dawn talon]

our st is still ass, ks is still super ass, fatebound is still borderline unplayable in anything besides pure st

[waxen scarab]

YOO WE BUFFED

[jovial dome]

I still like old animation better. I think this version needs a better animation but I'm not sure how

[covert heart]

They prob do what to slow the spec down

A tad

[wintry solar]

Sure but that's a new expac angle

[craggy barn]

solo how much apm is 11.2 outlaw

compared to now

[red zinc]

two

[wintry solar]

They a little Loco tn

[craggy barn]

holy

[wintry solar]

Rn

[frank finch]

i think sin is ahead of us now on st

[high girder]

new KS was cobbled together from random animations. its pluderstorm shots mixed with the old throw animations. It definitely needs a new animation but its literally a cludged together ability to stop us from killing ourselves.

[frank finch]

there buffs wee insane

[cinder relic]

If were going to complain we should have real complaints

it's not 5 seconds

[fossil lintel]

It's just weird seeing Ian go on a stage and present how they now listen to the players when they say something is unfun, and then we get ignored for 4 weeks

[red zinc]

I mean the complaint is just that new ks is longer for no real reason and additionally feels longer because your char is standing still

Feel like the effect of not jumping around makes the cast feel longer even if it wasnt

[cinder relic]

But ur character isnt standing still

[fossil lintel]

It's up to 5 seconds before haste. It's 2.5 to 3gcd on the average case if we clip it, 3-4gcds if you don't. Does that satisfy you?

[cinder relic]

Why would u count "before haste"

U dont play the spec with 0 haste

U play it with 20%

[covert heart]

You need haste to play the spec so that's dumb

[high girder]

it is sad they havent really iterated, but its obviously a cobbled together spell to just get rid of the problematic one with minimum dev time needed. I'm just hoping we see some additional work going into midnight and not just another 2 years of this lol

[fossil lintel]

Yeah, it's just easier to write 5s than 3gcds

[cinder relic]

Why not just say 3 seconds

cuz its not 5

[daring oxide]

I’m just glad we got some decent buffs

Makes it feel better going into new tier ❤️

[fossil lintel]

It can be 5s?

[cinder relic]

In what world is it 5

[fossil lintel]

Isn't the upper limit to it 5s? Why say 3s?

[cinder relic]

I feel like some of you exist to be upset

[covert heart]

Like you cant play this spec without 20% haste

[craggy barn]

saying 5s is disingenuous to the abitlity in practice

[chilly dagger]

count to 5 out loud and you will see how long that is

[silver sluice]

maybe with 0 haste? I don't think it's ever 5 seconds - that's not being honest

[fossil lintel]

Yes, it's the outlaw discord ritual, we doom, you come in here and complain about dooming

[lime lake]

i wouldnt miss it for the world

[red zinc]

you doom for a small reason

[frank bane]

Me just want silly pirate guy to make gun go burr

[red zinc]

Not a stupid as fuck reason

[cinder relic]

U can not like something, while not actively lying

and making shit up

[fossil lintel]

It's 5 sec with 0 haste and supercharged

[jovial dome]

I'm glad for buffs. I almost played Feral this season

[covert heart]

Go ahead and play outlaw with zero haste

And make that complaint

[tender wedge]

Wait is it DF S3 again??? ❤️❤️❤️

[chilly dagger]

i was between fire/outlaw. this kinda makes my decision depending on when it goes through for testing

[red zinc]

play whatever you like playing as long as its not (insert class i hate)

[craggy barn]

whats our tier set double coup timeline?

2seconds?

[restive obsidian]

just because a stat set is stupid, doesn't mean it can't be a 5 second channel.

it's pedantic sure

[junior fractal]

we using primary or secondary food next tier?

[fossil lintel]

With how fast outlaw generally is it certainly feels like 5 seconds if you try waiting for it to finish

Shit takes ages

[cinder relic]

Okay outlaws base GCD is 1 second

when are the devs going tof ix this?

[red zinc]

just say its longer than the old cast instead of lying its not that hard

[dawn talon]

the thing that pisses me off is that the cp wastage BUILT INTO KS is like the most nonsensical shit ever

we have had the cp refund for an eternity by now

[restive obsidian]

I hate that it even builds CPs

[dawn talon]

how does that make it to the ptr

[wintry solar]

Hot take but I don't feel the channel is all that long in practice.

[covert heart]

Me either it feels fast enough

Like i dont feel slow by pressing it

[silver sluice]

they could iterate on KS more I agree - with something like "shots after 5 cp do % extra dam" or "shots after 5 cp drop cannon balls" or something flavorful to make it feel better but I don't hate the new KS at all and the buffs are in the right direction for sure

[stuck patrol]

That's literally the majority of the WoW playerbase

[craggy barn]

what if

[restive obsidian]

I wish they had gone the route of extra ticks

[covert kestrel]

3.5 inches is the global average!!!! It's perfectly normal!!!

[chilly dagger]

same. it feels like a nice break for me in the madness

[fossil lintel]

They should make it deal all the remaining damage instantly once you hit 7cp

[restive obsidian]

IE, 3 second base cast that gets extra attacks with haste

[smoky lotus]

Where pins telling me what to think

[cinder relic]

How hard is it to just say "KS is 3 seconds thats too long"

[fossil lintel]

And finish it there

[cinder relic]

Rather than saying 5, and then just saying "oh well thats with 0 ahste"

we never play 0% haste

[wintry solar]

Idk how many more times I have to use it before I see eye to eye

[fossil lintel]

Sure guy, KS is 3 sec and that feels unfun

Are you happy?

[red zinc]

I only see between the eyes

[cinder relic]

thank you

yes

[silver sluice]

that could work too "if you fill on cp your final shot does the remaining dam" etc. etc.

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/forward-pass-nrl-one-eyed-gif-13887139

[silver sluice]

but new KS > old KS for me by 1000%

[fossil lintel]

Great, can we move on to the actual criticism rather than attacking a simple hiperbole?

[craggy barn]

are we KS -> Coup -> Coup on ptr?

with tier

[red zinc]

think someone asked that the other day and they hadnt ran the full minmax on that yet

[hasty pasture]

Bro misspelled hyperbole

[craggy barn]

what if the intended rotation was
Coup -> KS -> Coup
because we have 5 seconds between coups

🙂

[lime lake]

nah hes just really hip

[neat mist]

https://tenor.com/view/minor-spelling-mistake-thanos-thanos-snap-dust-gif-16037423944121739362

[restive obsidian]

wait hold up

[fossil lintel]

Oh, it's with an i on my native language

[restive obsidian]

it's a 5 second cast with super charger and 15% haste

[red zinc]

ho in big 11.2

[neat mist]

Sick, it's with an Ü in my native language.

[frank finch]

explain

[lime lake]

thats hot

[fossil lintel]

I'm sorry, what?

[neat mist]

üüü la la

[slate forge]

No HO changes is criminal fk this

[tender wedge]

Some people just looking to be mad smh

[wintry solar]

It's buffed wdym

[dull ivy]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[covert kestrel]

Give it up buster and join us

[neat mist]

Yeh, hüperbool

[red zinc]

It is a provocative message aimed at the HO playerbase, making fun of them still theorizing about playing the “Hidden Opportunity” build within the coming patch.

[stuck patrol]

Whatever blizzard employee didn't buff HO, ya mom's a HO

[frank finch]

im playing ho

fuk yall

[stuck patrol]

What a ho

[red zinc]

This is, of course, a delusional proposition.

[wintry solar]

What a Timmy's mom

[slate forge]

I did give it up but it’s such an easy thing to see and give some love that it’s crazy they didn’t put in the effort

[cinder relic]

Its not hyperbole

because literally half the ppl in this discord seem to think its literally 5 seconds

[wintry solar]

Exaggeration

[red zinc]

suck my hyper balls

[neat mist]

Fuck HO

[red zinc]

love ho

[cinder relic]

Its possible to say "x sucks" without just fabricating shit

[wintry solar]

Present them

[neat mist]

KIR is for the chads

[jovial dome]

Why Timmy gotta attack us Ho's

[restive obsidian]

I just tried on the PTR. with supercharger and 15% haste, it lasted 5 seconds

[neat mist]

Yeah Timmy

What the hell bro

[red zinc]

we are all equally unemployed guys dont hate too hard

💔

[restive obsidian]

I don't htink supercharger combo points are being reduced by haste

[gaunt phoenix]

They are

[stiff vector]

the double coup feels jank tbh, it takes a second to proc sometimes and it seems slower than a regular GCD. Doesnt feel very good going KS>double coup, feels like the rotation gets slowed down a ton for 5 sec and doesnt flow very well.

[red zinc]

normal coup is also longer than a normal gcd so that’d be the same

[stuck patrol]

That's just the animation, you can continue rotation as normal

[craggy barn]

solo any fun TC things going on

[fossil lintel]

Idk guy, I'm just sad about 5s of ks, at this point we're going to be competing with evokers on apm

[red zinc]

They actually found a fourth dimension of damage, going to mean big things for the theoretical outlaw community

[cinder relic]

?

[fossil lintel]

Can't a person just be sad about 5s long KS?

[craggy barn]

holy

[restive obsidian]

Then I have no idea why a supercharged killing spree is 5 seconds in the combat log.

[tight kernel]

!opener

[covert heart]

I think its just rage bait at this point

[slate forge]

Nope we must defend blizzard despite this expansion and how it’s been for us

[stiff vector]

bruh do you think im sitting there waiting for an animation to finish not pressing any buttons lol..ofc im continuing my rotation. It just does not feel very good at all going from KS>double coup

[wintry solar]

If i can be sad about 10 second ks

[cinder relic]

Nobody is defending blizzard

u guys just make shit up

there is a difference

[fathom bramble]

going to need a log for more precise timestamps

[gaunt phoenix]

at 20% haste it would be 4.16 seconds, it rounded up the timestamp perhaps

[fossil lintel]

You can and should be sad about 10s ks

[neat mist]

Guys, what do we think about our 15 second KS?

[lime lake]

shareholders are cracking down on free speech wtf

[neat mist]

Like that shit is so ass or what

[red zinc]

bomberclart!

[fair oak]

Do we know if this last tuning is a buff or nerf?

[lime lake]

i cant believe they made ks 20 seconds

[red zinc]

is goood!

[fossil lintel]

Bro KS literally takes 30 seconds and has a 30 sec

[gaunt phoenix]

July 30th PTR tuning

Fatebound Coin: Tails and Lucky Coin damage increased by 17%.
Nimble Flurry bonus to Blade Flurry damage reduced to 20% (was 25%).
All damage increased by 3.5%.
Killing Spree damage increased by 15%.

Fatebound gains ~8% on ST.
Trickster gains ~5% on ST.

Canceling Killing Spree is now basically neutral for KIR Trickster while a very small gain for Fatebound. HO builds should not cancel KS.

Canceling Killing Spree may still be "better" as you cannot spell queue out of a channel, it is perhaps faster to react to the CPs instead of reacting to the ending.

Even with the Nimble Flurry nerf, Trickster still has a net gain of 2-3% in AoE.

Fatebound is obviously still very strong at 1 target, and Fatebound and Trickster are now about the same at 2 target. This means that Fatebound has more of a fighting chance to compete with Trickster in some cleave raid encounters and possibly in keys.

Unrelated, a finalized general overview of 11.2 and FAQ updates are on the way.

[stuck patrol]

I think KS should be 30 seconds so I can get a few bites of my food and scratch my balls before it's over

[fossil lintel]

Unplayable

[fathom bramble]

we are about to get our first required WA

cast bar for KS so you can cancel it right after thee tick that maxes CP

[red zinc]

wat

[fathom bramble]

insteead of reacting

[red zinc]

first required wa
outlaw

[fathom bramble]

like all the arcane missiles WAs

[jovial dome]

You don't already do this?

[neat mist]

When is Blizzard putting BF back to 50%

[frank finch]

well now we want to full ch it no?

[tight kernel]

Someone correct me if IM wrong

[stuck patrol]

I can't, outlaw apm too high

[tight kernel]

But we cast AR on pull not pre as FB

[stuck patrol]

Can't even scratch my nose bro

[tight kernel]

?

[fossil lintel]

Watch it boy, keep talking like that and they'll buff it by another three fiddy

[glass mortar]

why have you put this in my brain

[red zinc]

wait actually

Did the last bf nerf nerf grand melee also

[stiff vector]

im gonna pretend I never read what lok said

[red zinc]

Since thats multiplicative for some reason

[glass mortar]

hes right tho 0.4s interval of kspree is like half a gcd of optimization u can do there depending on where in the tick u cancel

[red zinc]

cause that would be slightly bs

[wintry solar]

Just do what I do and cancel the channel at 6 with a builder

Ezpz

[glass mortar]

thats like 5 or 6 gcds a fight

crazy stuff

[wintry solar]

For that juicy trickster gameplay

[fathom bramble]

nearly all of the othere recommended WAs simply display info in a cool way or in a shinier color compared to what blizzard offers

individual ticks in a cast bar is something only WAs will do

[gaunt phoenix]

fatebound is winning dslice now but it is single target boss

[red zinc]

I mean container stuff kinda required

[covert kestrel]

Oh fuck

[red zinc]

but thats kir only ig

[fossil lintel]

Fatebound winning dslice?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah barely

[covert kestrel]

Oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck

[neat mist]

Oh no no no

[fathom bramble]

container stuff is technically available with only what the game presents to you

[fossil lintel]

Is it running KS?

[covert kestrel]

Mom can you pick me up I'm scared

[fathom bramble]

it's just annoying without the wa

[gaunt phoenix]

I mean, it will depend on the key on what is really better

[red zinc]

fatebound ks and im doing something

[frank finch]

WAT

[upbeat tundra]

is this fatebound with ks

[frank finch]

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes fatebound uses KS

[frank finch]

[red zinc]

aw hell nawl

[frank finch]

zac meltdown incoming

[fossil lintel]

Crap

[red zinc]

cant do this💔

[white marten]

HO fatebound?! 👀👀

[upbeat tundra]

ecks dee

[jovial dome]

No no no. Fuck Fatebound

[gaunt phoenix]

but fatebound loses 1.5% or something to remove ks

[craggy barn]

solo how scuffed is it to sim coup -> ks -> coup

[gaunt phoenix]

Why would you do that

[red zinc]

send da video

[craggy barn]

bored

[fathom bramble]

HO is further behind now than it ever has been so probably not

[gaunt phoenix]

oh i get it

hm

[covert kestrel]

Zacs nightmare is coming together

[craggy barn]

like, new ks FEELS like it just fits right in there solo

its 5 seconds right so

for double coup

[fossil lintel]

It's so stupid they buffed this shitty 7.5s KS so much to see if we would finish the channel that even fatebound has to run it now

[white marten]

Its strongk

[red zinc]

if they had balls theyd turn coup into another ks channel that consumes 5 extra cp

[covert heart]

Hopefully they make ks a 30 channel with a 10 min cd

[fossil lintel]

Solo, how much did new KS reduce our apm by?

[frank finch]

life without perma tricks

💀

[waxen scarab]

loool

[covert kestrel]

NOOOOOOO

I CAN'T GO BACK

[gaunt phoenix]

idk like 5 apm

85 > 80

or something

[slate forge]

Atleast 1 second per combo point though

[red zinc]

nawl

[fossil lintel]

Yeah 6.3s of ks is definitely too long

[past sphinx]

On a scale of 1-10 how shit are the changes

[fossil lintel]

This week changes are okay but we're dooming about other stuff

[covert kestrel]

They are good changes just not at all the changes we want/need

[gaunt phoenix]

i'm not sure if it's "enough" tuning, but fatebound and trickster are much closer in lower aoe cleave, which is interesting

[slate forge]

If you spend half the time in KS they don’t have to worry about updating any of our other animations

[past sphinx]

I’m guessing ST still an issue with trickster?

[turbid fog]

is fatebound actually good or nah? i just wanna flip some coins man

[gaunt phoenix]

fatebound is very good at 1 target

[covert heart]

For raid its the go 2

[fossil lintel]

They are trying to make outlaw more accessible to Dev evoker players

[turbid fog]

Damn life is good

[covert heart]

If its st

[gaunt phoenix]

now it's the same as trickster at 2 target

[past sphinx]

Fatebound keys could be good

[craggy barn]

being just as good in 2t is good

[slate forge]

Maybe we can get glyphs to shoot different colors too

[craggy barn]

we need that pistol shot glyph to work on new KS

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/wrong-i-think-you-should-leave-with-tim-robinson-incorrect-you-got-it-wrong-false-gif-8877109044393951791

[fossil lintel]

The main reason I would want to play fatebound is to escape KS though

[stuck patrol]

It doesn't even work on BTE

[wintry solar]

Oh you

[lime lake]

same, i dont want to sit through an 8.7s channel

[silver sluice]

oooo changing the color of that channel would be sick

[covert heart]

Just dont run it eassyy

[fathom bramble]

I wonder if the official notes being wrong is making people think new KS got more of a boost in duration than it did 🤔

[fossil lintel]

Yeah that's a whole 12.6s too long for my taste

[restive obsidian]

21:28:26.229-4 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,Player-5764-003D010D,"Inhumes-Iridikron-",0x511,0x80000000,Player-5764-003D010D,"Inhumes-Iridikron-",0x511,0x80000000,51690,"Killing Spree",0x1,BUFF

21:28:30.675-4 SPELL_DAMAGE,Player-5764-003D010D,"Inhumes-Iridikron-",0x511,0x80000000,Creature-0-5769-2552-9-219250-00000417E1,"PvP Training Dummy",0xa28,0x80000000,57842,"Killing Spree",0x1,Creature-0-5769-2552-9-219250-00000417E1,0000000000000000,1

it's very close to 5 seconds.

[covert kestrel]

I don’t speak robot

[lime lake]

fucking clanker

[restive obsidian]

they asked for more advanced log, I used the wowcombat logs

[stuck patrol]

I only know how to ask where the bathroom is in robot

[gaunt phoenix]

Killing spree is not bugged to be longer than intended man

[stuck patrol]

Beep boopp

[fathom bramble]

how much haste is this recorded at?

[stiff vector]

its longer than I intend it to be, thats for sure

[restive obsidian]

15%

[fossil lintel]

We need to bring that Ryu guy back, we definitely need 43% haste now to combat the 9s long ks

[stuck patrol]

Oh my fucking god

[fathom bramble]

you got the eduration we expect from 12.4% haste 🤔

[restive obsidian]

supercharger, 15% haste = 4.5 second cast

[brittle pelican]

hey guys on details, how do we change how fast it updates the info again?

[covert heart]

When would we be at 15% haste?

[slate forge]

HO?????

[neat mist]

Options and there's an Update Interval thingie somewhere

[covert heart]

You go above that with other stuff in the tree

[brittle pelican]

thanks, I'll look for that

[gaunt phoenix]

we play at 25% haste after alacrity

[covert heart]

Like you are never at 15% haste

[restive obsidian]

ok, so before alacrity it's 20% haste

5%-10 second haste doesn't reduced 1.4 seconds in GCD

[turbid fog]

how much we want before buffs? isnt it around 20?

[restive obsidian]

cast *

[fathom bramble]

that's not really the point though

[violet bison]

Where can I find the tldr of recent tuning

[fossil lintel]

Before we needed 40% haste for KS to not kill us. Now we need 40% haste to even feel alive at all

[fathom bramble]

duration should be correct at all haste levels

[violet bison]

nvm found

[slate forge]

Would need to just do this to bte and dispatch always finisher after ks? Maybe gs and vanish?

[neat mist]

wtf gary

[gaunt phoenix]

Those 4 are fine

[craggy barn]

what doesnt break ks channel
defensives and grapple/spritn?

[fathom bramble]

yes

[restive obsidian]

anyways, point is. Supercharger killing spree is more like a 4.25-4.5 second cast and that shit blows

[mild vigil]

screw you gary, my leg has hurt since this morning

[covert heart]

I am not the ptr now and its def not that that long

Thats kir with 20% haste

[craggy barn]

hmm

[restive obsidian]

4.16 second cast, oh man

[craggy barn]

are the helm enchants gonna work for 11.2 gear or no

[neat mist]

Nope

[covert heart]

Its show below 4 for me

[neat mist]

You can't apply them on PTR at least so

[restive obsidian]

that's probably a rounding down error then. are you looking at advanced log or just the combat log

(IE what I did wrong previously)

[next wedge]

start dooming boys

[gaunt phoenix]

Im going to delete this on sight

[neat mist]

?

[craggy barn]

[next wedge]

https://tenor.com/view/waah-waa-sad-wah-waaah-gif-25875771

[covert kestrel]

Delete this on sight

[fossil lintel]

Delete what on sight?

[gaunt phoenix]

The stacked list of st sims

[wintry solar]

Who up simming they patchwerk?

[fossil lintel]

Why? Are we losing?

Do they have a very outdated number for rogues?

[neat mist]

Rogue TCs all in cahoots and sandbagging smh my head

[gaunt phoenix]

outlaw's patchwerk damage is on the lower end, but that specific image is more misleading than it isnt

And it's unofficial sims people are plucking from class discords

It's also been posted 380 times so it's enough

[torpid fiber]

Big simulationcraft suppressing small indie theorycrafters smh

[red zinc]

who up werking their patch

[fossil lintel]

Talking about sims, I started contributing to the DK module in there a bit to learn it, if you have some stuff on the rogue module to toss to a new contributor let me know

[gaunt phoenix]

It kind of makes people think that blizzard is going to take action based on ST sim results

when they probably dont give jack or shit

[tender wedge]

I always just point to assass sims before 11.1

Barely beating some tanks

[torpid fiber]

Yeah, they only care about heroic week logs

[gaunt phoenix]

[dapper herald]

this rework is MASSIVE i have to relearn the spec in such a short time

[next wedge]

i just wanted people to cry and drink the tears 🙁

[gaunt phoenix]

I think we have a fresh supply of that on the daily

[wintry solar]

Nah

What about yesterday

[slate forge]

We used to not have time to cry now we have 4 seconds

[next wedge]

xd

[frank finch]

https://www.twitch.tv/zorthas/clip/AmorphousTalentedRavenGingerPower-Q-CkdQnk-91aCwYR

[fossil lintel]

It's enough time to cry and make tea out of the tears

[dapper herald]

and it's all 5% damage changes lmaoooo

[hybrid mesa]

How's the dooming guys

[frank finch]

well way more then that

[wintry solar]

Unjustified tbh

Actually aoe nerf

[dapper herald]

doomers are eating good

[covert kestrel]

I can't listen what does the tomato say

[wintry solar]

But

Eh

[hybrid mesa]

Aren't they always even when there's nothing to doom?

[frank finch]

more rogue notes then the entire ptr cycle combined

[dapper herald]

they do starve sometimes

[hybrid mesa]

Nah they'll doom about not having stuff to doom about

Dooming is a lifestyle

[fossil lintel]

Nah, we got a huge PTR change a few weeks back did you forget? They adjusted the one key rotation

[slate forge]

Surely they buff blade rush by 600% so it’s viable or just remove it at this point

[wintry solar]

He said more notes

[random stirrup]

600%

[wintry solar]

LEARN TO READ

[hybrid mesa]

Tbh I don't miss blade rush one bit

[slate forge]

600 honestly might not be enough

[torpid fiber]

I think blade rush doesn't really fit in with the post-df version of the spec sadly

[random stirrup]

last time it was talked about i think the number was like 3000%

[wintry solar]

Because we have infinite energy and no energy at the same time

[random stirrup]

that button is real bad

[indigo token]

it could be cool tho

[hybrid mesa]

It's such a nothing burger spell, unless they rework it it's kinda useless

[torpid fiber]

Blade rush was fun back when we generated less combo points and energy wasn't so binary based on adr uptime

[fossil lintel]

schrödinger energy

[slate forge]

Should do what deft does but do actual dmg and put it where deft is

Uncapped deft

[torpid fiber]

But the problem is that now either we have infinite energy or no energy, and blade rush doesn't help you get back to infinite energy from no energy that well

Even if blade rush did a shit ton of damage it'd still feel bad to press because it does nothing to your resources

[fossil lintel]

You're always in a superstate of infinite energy and no energy, it collapses into one when you try to ambush

[dapper herald]

remove energy from rogues problem solved

[slate forge]

Needs to give combo points per target

[wintry solar]

If they fix that, br becomes good again

And fulfills it's purpose

[slate forge]

I liked the little charge

[fossil lintel]

I guess they put some cooldowns on our builders, and give our abilities more flashy animations with ton of light. Reduce max CP to 5 and make it so it only spends 3.
Maybe then outlaw would be popular!

[dapper herald]

It just feels unfair to me that rogues have to manage energy on top of it

[torpid fiber]

I think at that point it'd be actual button bloat compared to Deft

I like energy tbh

[latent oak]

unfair?

[fossil lintel]

Make it replace BF and put it where deft is

[hybrid mesa]

Huhge

[dapper herald]

while rets just get free build spend

[latent oak]

u cant compare specs like that

[hybrid mesa]

Comparing specs is like the biggest self report tbh

[wintry solar]

Holy Power is barely combo points

[fossil lintel]

They manage cooldowns on their builders instead of energy

[dapper herald]

so our cooldowns is waiting for energy instead

[craggy barn]

hm i have 0 idea how to do this apl shit

[hybrid mesa]

Dawg if you're waiting for energy that much you're doing something wrong idk

[latent oak]

u arent waiting for energy very often at all

[hybrid mesa]

Like it gets dry a few times but it really is kinda uncommon

[latent oak]

happens sometimes if u get fucked on rolls/procs with 1fth

[fossil lintel]

Unless you drop AR

[gaunt phoenix]

i will do it but not tonight

[torpid fiber]

dw there's docs on the github repo you just have to find the ones not last updated in legion

[craggy barn]

nw solo, i just wanted to see if i could tackle it

[gaunt phoenix]

he wants to insert killing spree between the two coups, it will be nontrivial

[craggy barn]

idk if what i did does what i want

but thinking back on shit it doesnt seem worth it? bc u have no combo poitns for ks

[craggy barn]

u still have to build after first ks

er coup

[gaunt phoenix]

oh ye

cooked

[craggy barn]

this doesnt do what im thinking tho right?

copy="coup ks coup"
# Cancel Killing Spree after it generates you to max CPs.
actions.finish+=/coup_de_grace
actions.finish+=/killing_spree,if=time-action.coup_de_grace.last_used<=2

i jsut copied shit ignore the note

[gaunt phoenix]

nah cause it will use coup, then run down the entire list again, and see it can still use coup, and do it again

[craggy barn]

gotcha

[agile quiver]

what's bad about KS building cp? it's in the same vein as Ace, isn't it? just built in instead of an extra talent point

[restive obsidian]

because I want to use the unseen blades as tricksters provided from kiling spree

[torpid fiber]

wait could you make this work by just putting the KS condition above coup

[frail veldt]

Y'all are janking it up lol

[torpid fiber]

jank > dooming

[wintry solar]

I'm janking it

[craggy barn]

imagine if the cook works tho solo

[wintry solar]

I'm janking it oooooooo I'm gonna sim

[agile quiver]

but are you jorking it?

[craggy barn]

[frail veldt]

Why are we dooming didn't we get buffrd a lil

[hybrid mesa]

This is a wow discord

The default state is doom

Buffed? Doom because it means we'll get nerfed

[frail veldt]

What is the cook exactly I'm too lazy to read up

[agile quiver]

coup -> ks -> coup

[wintry solar]

No, doom because the wrong thing was buffed

[bright crane]

Tell me how to feel

[hybrid mesa]

Nerfed? Doom because rogue dev sucks

[bright crane]

Am I mad or not

[frail veldt]

What's the benefit of this?

[craggy barn]

ks fits just inside coup window

[agile quiver]

[craggy barn]

its garbage bc u still have to build after first coup

[fossil lintel]

We should rename the channel to kazzak's den, only doom lords allowed

[frail veldt]

I'm not sure this is worth lol

[craggy barn]

i dont think so either

lol

[frail veldt]

Also it should rarely happen anyway

[craggy barn]

but imagine mewo

[agile quiver]

jank idea: coup, AR -> ks -> coup

[frail veldt]

You shouldn't get KS off cd with coup up ideally

Right?

Alson

[fossil lintel]

You can

[frail veldt]

Yeah but does it happen often enough for this to even be a gain lol

You'd lose fatal flourish buff on KS too

It might even be a loss

All you gain is a little coup cdr

Benefiting KS

[fossil lintel]

Actually if you have coup and KS ready just KS, it's the best feeling being able to use the KS cp to coup

So you go KS -> coup > coup> vanish

[frail veldt]

Isn't coup prio above KS

[gaunt phoenix]

nop

[frail veldt]

Oh I have that backwards

[craggy barn]

lol

[fathom bramble]

KS casts that consume supercharger seem to be shorter than expected and deal damage 1 fewer times than expected

[fossil lintel]

You don't lose anything from ksing with coup up as long as you don't SS

[craggy barn]

yea, this is just a giga cook that should expectedly not be gain

[gaunt phoenix]

hm

[fathom bramble]

exactly 1 tick shorter than expected for your current haste

[craggy barn]

i jsut wanna see a number

[fathom bramble]

tested at 0% and 15%

[agile quiver]

Unrelated: Is there an item upgrade ilvl chart for s3?

[fossil lintel]

And that doesn't happen outside of supercharge?

[fathom bramble]

also checked if it was just forced induction not applying to KS

but it happens on both versions of supercharger

[fathom bramble]

yes

[fossil lintel]

Blizz cooked, they made KS max duration from 5 to 4.5s

[gaunt phoenix]

is it specifically >7cp or what if you supercharge at 4cp

[fathom bramble]

I tried at 6 and 7

I can try lower

[fossil lintel]

He means if supercharge doesn't make you go past the usual 7 limit

So 4 or lower

[slate forge]

Is it good to supercharge KS with the buffs now?

[fossil lintel]

We cancel it anyway

[torpid fiber]

no longer

[slate forge]

I thought we didn’t cancel now after these amazing well thought out buffs

[torpid fiber]

(Unless sims show that there's some case where we cancel it if it'd be too long or smth)

[fathom bramble]

it's doing it at 1 2 3 and 4 combo points as well

[gaunt phoenix]

As far as i could tell it seemed fine to supercharger ks even with the cancel

Wtf

[fathom bramble]

shorter duration than expected by 1 tick

and 1 less damage event for each hand

[torpid fiber]

Lmao

[fathom bramble]

intended ?

[stray star]

do we have ST sims ?

[fathom bramble]

here's a log casting at 1, 2 ,3 , and then 4 with 10.45% haste before alac
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/y34H1bDVrLBj82fZ?fight=1&type=damage-done&source=8&options=256&ability=-51690

[gaunt phoenix]

ty

[fathom bramble]

all 4 with supercharger+3 CP

[rotund depot]

Is 4pc fixed for your set too to buff second coup

[gaunt phoenix]

yea it is

[rotund depot]

Nice nice

[fathom bramble]

for reference we expect CP+1 hits and 0.5(base) duration per CP

but all the supercharger ones are CP hits and 0.5(base) duration short

[gaunt phoenix]

can you sanity test if supercharger is correctly +3cp for dispatch

or bte either one

[sonic pawn]

Are we still gonna be using Loaded dice over slight of hand ?

[gaunt phoenix]

yea

[vagrant saddle]

solo are we happy or still shit?

[gaunt phoenix]

i like the tuning, mainly fatebound being more competitive in low cleave, but not sure if the overall damage increase is "enough" to satisfy people, especially if worried about st damage in keys

also canceling ks is still more or less a thing so that's whatever

[fathom bramble]

numbers seem right for dispatch and BTE

[gaunt phoenix]

i see

thank god

[fathom bramble]

they are also triggering cut to the chasee and restless at expeected values

[gaunt phoenix]

imagine supercharger just randomly broke one day

[fathom bramble]

imagine it was broke this whole time

[gaunt phoenix]

[sullen wyvern]

'Blizzard please, cast time of Killing spree is too long can you please reduce it so it doesn't feel cluncky'?

-say no more

[gaunt phoenix]

i mean ye

idk

evidently they are happy with the duration

what can you do

[sullen wyvern]

they are aura buffing the shit out of killing spree to end up nerfing it at some point mid patch

[fathom bramble]

unleess theey intentionally loweered supeercharged KS by 1 tick 🤔

[gaunt phoenix]

[fathom bramble]

my E key is fuckeeed

[vagrant saddle]

we just have to get PI now to fit full ks in 1 gcd

[devout garden]

Cuz we have 0 rogue devs now sadly. Aura buffs for like how long ?

[cinder relic]

Most of these changes haven't been aura buffs?

[coral wolf]

So Killing Spree is eyebeam now?

[vagrant saddle]

eyebeam but worse

[white marten]

Eyebeam but cooler

[frail veldt]

Wouldn't be the first time

[frail veldt]

Not in isolation, they're doing a decent job of mixing aura with specific buffs/nerfs which is good

[cinder relic]

thats what I mean

Ill keep saying it but what annoys me is when people feel the need to just not say whats happening

and get upset about things that arent happening

[wraith smelt]

hey guys. what percentages would you recommend for stats to be at?

[gaunt phoenix]

the kir build wants 19% haste including flask, so you have 25% after alacrity, which maxes out the gcd reduction from adrenaline rush

then just generally as much vers as possible and some crit is fine

[pearl topaz]

they made killing spree longer to minimise your long term wrist damage so that you are capable of playing for longer

[fossil lintel]

At least we'll have a lot of extra time to doom here during all our 7s KS casts

[frail veldt]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[frail veldt]

I swear every time I hear someone talk about KS during it gets longer

In a month people will be saying 10s KS

[fossil lintel]

What do you mean? Average KS duration is 12s

[gaunt phoenix]

it was funny the first time

[vapid blaze]

wtf are these changes

[tender wedge]

📈

[vapid blaze]

i mean i was kinda right
they did nerf bf and buff st

xD

[haughty wigeon]

Basically yes

[frail veldt]

Not at all lol what

Eye beam is aoe

KS isn't

They are both channels that's really all they have in common

[covert kestrel]

Can move in ks, can't in eb

[frail veldt]

Yeup

KS is closer to arcane missile

[lime lake]

ks=arcane missiles=mage=meta

therefore outlaw is meta

[frail veldt]

Hahaha

[lime lake]

holy buff

[covert kestrel]

I can't wait til I tell my tank to position the prio mob at exactly 90° so I can focus it with ks!

[wraith smelt]

thank you, guys.

[long barn]

Do we have recommended builds posted yet

[gaunt phoenix]

same kir but use loaded dice

[wraith smelt]

im tired of being a noob on rogue. most fun class to play. 🙁

i do have loaded dice.

[gaunt phoenix]

loaded dice is for next season

[long barn]

What we dropping

[gaunt phoenix]

sleight

[long barn]

K

This fate bound pin is just ST raid dmg?

Do we have anything for m+

How we looking dps sim wise

[gaunt phoenix]

its the same kir

[covert kestrel]

Were looking pretty yellow on the sims

[long barn]

Also. Sorry lol with Ks dmg buff today we still canceling cast?

[gaunt phoenix]

use trickster in keys, but there was tuning 2 hours ago, perhaps fatebound is more competitive

[covert kestrel]

There's a pin

[long barn]

Yea an old one

[covert kestrel]

From 2hrs ago?

[long barn]

Oh

I missed that

Sorry

[torpid fiber]

i'm actually kinda shocked that cancelling KS is now only 0.2% loss, I expected it to be meaningfully more

[long barn]

I was referring to the old old one

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/carlos-dab-gif-18673913

[torpid fiber]

I think the note about cancelling KS is a bit misleading though, because you're also going to lose time while cancelling it because afaik you don't get to max cp before the global is up

[gaunt phoenix]

you are reacting to the cps instead of when it "ends"

[torpid fiber]

ye

[frail veldt]

You're only cancelling part of it I guess and it's dpe is still lower than our rotation right?

Cuz it just gets longer the more cp

It doesn't do more dps

Like it's always gona be less dpe than a bte crit right?

Otherwise it'd be ABSURD

[glass mortar]

its gotta be more DPET then bte crackshot now

[frail veldt]

If it was doing as much damage per second as bte. That would be like if you got 100% ace proc chan e for 7 seconds

[glass mortar]

it was only a tad behind before

and its been buffed like 5 times since then

[frail veldt]

No way

You think every global of KS does as much damage as a crackshot bte

That's so much DPS

[glass mortar]

thats live

[frail veldt]

Dpe is maybe more

[covert kestrel]

Zacs meters do be poppi g when he presses ks

[frail veldt]

That's not right

No way lol

[torpid fiber]

does that BTE dpe include the crackshot dispatch cast

[fathom bramble]

yes

[glass mortar]

yes

[gaunt phoenix]

its the average of crackshot and not crackshot

[torpid fiber]

oh then yeah it seems possible

[frail veldt]

Ah

Hmm

[glass mortar]

yea so the gap will be a bit higher then it looks

still not huge tho

and this is live kspree

[frail veldt]

Did KS go up in dpet

[glass mortar]

yes

[frail veldt]

Now that it lasts so much longer

[glass mortar]

significantly

[frail veldt]

By how much

[glass mortar]

its been buffed like 5 times

[frail veldt]

Cuz KS was so fast before though

They doubled it's duration

So it's dpet got cut in half

[glass mortar]

they increased its duration by like 20%

they didnt double it

25% i think

[gaunt phoenix]

...it's 25% longer duration

[frail veldt]

Lol I've been fed so much misinformation

LOLOL

[long barn]

It’s gonna feel so slow

[glass mortar]

i mean

live kspree is 4s long with supercharger no haste

[frail veldt]

How have I been lied to so hard

[glass mortar]

ptr is 5s

even live is too long

[fathom bramble]

welll

[glass mortar]

zac isnt wrong

he just also thinks live is too long

so ptr is an atrocity

[fathom bramble]

apparently it's 4.5s on ptr

[frail veldt]

Okay so then dpet of new KS has to be WAY above bte now

If it was close from s2

[glass mortar]

ye

[frail veldt]

That's honestly surprising

[glass mortar]

theres more to the function then dpet tho

[frail veldt]

It doesn't feel that way

[glass mortar]

cause thats like 60% of the story

[frail veldt]

Sheeeeeesh

[glass mortar]

for lots of its active time killing spree is not churning cdr as effectively as bte obviously

which is why its not even a big loss to cancel KSpree with that DPET

[covert kestrel]

Good night team, can't wait to wake up tomorrow and search "from: zac" and read his manifesto

[gaunt phoenix]

he wont like bf nerf

which is fair

[frail veldt]

Yeah but it generates cps and free ub

So it's gotta be close

[covert kestrel]

And how close fb is now lol

[frail veldt]

That's so crazy @gaunt phoenix how using 1cp KS can be so little loss

But KS is such high dpet

Like idgi

[gaunt phoenix]

1cp ks?

[glass mortar]

on live?

[frail veldt]

Yeah remember you simmed that

Or using min CP ks

[glass mortar]

but its lower DPET on live then bte

and it still has the downsides

[frail veldt]

Like if you have to use it at low cps

[glass mortar]

if u could cancel live kspree u probably would

not that surprising

[frail veldt]

I mean would you?

[glass mortar]

yes

[frail veldt]

It's higher dpet than everything outside of crackshot

[glass mortar]

u get 100% of the unseen blades value

with a 1 cp duration kspree right

[gaunt phoenix]

mewo go to bed

[frail veldt]

Lolol

[glass mortar]

mewo

[frail veldt]

I'm at the gym

[glass mortar]

look at how high the dpet of kspree is on ptr

and its still barely a loss to cancel

of course ud cancel on live if uc ould

[frail veldt]

Yeah but cancel early is when you max cp

[glass mortar]

where its like 40% lower dpet

[frail veldt]

It's not insta cancel

[glass mortar]

sure

[frail veldt]

You're only losing a small fraction of it

[glass mortar]

u wouldnt insta cancel lives either

[frail veldt]

And it doesn't always trigger

[glass mortar]

ud let it swing for a gcd probably

[frail veldt]

Sure

Yeah I could see one gcd

[torpid fiber]

yeah obviously you'd never cancel before a gcd

that would be dumb

[frail veldt]

It's effectively just a better dispatch with ub stacks at that point

Makes sense

[glass mortar]

and u get all the stacks for casting it u dont care how long it is

[frail veldt]

If at low energy you'd prob let it last longer

[glass mortar]

solo have u simmed these net buffs and changes on a live profile to see what we'll look like come tuesday

[gaunt phoenix]

not recently

a while ago it was like the same dps

you gain/lose nothing

[frail veldt]

Nice

[gaunt phoenix]

that was before the 10% tuning i think

[pliant wave]

@gaunt phoenix Is it still a big loss to consume Supercharger with KS after buff?

[gaunt phoenix]

as far as i could tell it was already fine to supercharge ks

i think because you have to roll when you need to roll, and you have to ks and when need to ks

there is an opportunity cost to delaying one

[frail veldt]

That would be annoying to play around

[gaunt phoenix]

yeh

[strong halo]

Does anyone have a link to the latest PTR buffs? I’m not seeing anything

[gaunt phoenix]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/hunters-nerfed-again-patch-11-2-ptr-class-tuning-377950?utm_source=discord-webhook

[strong halo]

Rigged Assas 0.5% buffed more than us

[bright crane]

So are we happy or mad about the changes

Tell me what to think

[gaunt phoenix]

it's more numbers

[bright crane]

Perfect

Me gusta mucho more numbers

[strong halo]

No clue waiting for Zac to tell me how I feel

[bright crane]

zac is going to see a bigger number turning into a smaller number

and he isnt going to stand for it one bit

[cinder relic]

I'm sure zac is going to find a way to be upset about this

You can screenshot this

[sudden fulcrum]

is there an easier way to know when you have 3 seconds left on AR besides watching the top right of your screen?

[gaunt phoenix]

weakauras

?

[sudden fulcrum]

obviously. so if you have a suggestion please make it

it's also not clear to me whether the guide means "the cooldown on AR has 3s remaining" or "the buff has 3s remaining"

[random stirrup]

don’t be a coward press vanish at 0.3s left not 3

Smh

[frank finch]

dont mind me im just waiting for zac

[bright crane]

https://tenor.com/view/beaman-man-gif-20909944

[gaunt phoenix]

!wa these packs should track AR duration

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[gaunt phoenix]

or you can prolly clone an existing buff weakaura you have but change the condition to adrenaline rush

[sudden fulcrum]

so is it cooldown remaining or buff remaining?

[gaunt phoenix]

what are you looking at specifically?

[sudden fulcrum]

Vanish followed by Between the Eyes at 6 or more combo points while Adrenaline Rush is active AND ANY 1 of the following conditions is met. Adrenaline Rush has 3 or less seconds remaining.

seems like buff