outlaw

[warped mantle]

like if

there's 0.4 till gcd is available

and i qeuue a spell

its locked in

and wont change

[frail veldt]

at what point does it start working correctly?

like 200?

[warped mantle]

like 150

ish probs

idk if it's cause i got low ping

[frail veldt]

thats very peculiar

[gaunt phoenix]

i've seen it over the years

i just blame blizzardo

[frail veldt]

I have too but only when im laggy

never when I have stable connection

maybe you have low ping

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe it is addon performance related or some shit

[frail veldt]

but your ping is highly variant

[warped mantle]

i have 0 addons installed rn bro

[gaunt phoenix]

nice

[warped mantle]

and itll happen

lmao

[frail veldt]

strange

[warped mantle]

well enabled

it could also just be

FPS related

[frail veldt]

yeah def record it

naaah

[warped mantle]

since I find it's most cooked in raid

[frail veldt]

I think you might not have 5 ping in raid maybe lol

[shy flume]

who open this spellquje topic 😄

[warped mantle]

yeah possibly

it's def way worse in raid

[gaunt phoenix]

it's better than dooming

[frail veldt]

yeah I have the same issue in raid

actually

of spell queue window getting stuck

[warped mantle]

so do you lower ur sqw in raid?

[frail veldt]

nah I just cba

its not that often

[warped mantle]

lmao

check ur logs btw

do u have exactly 0.8

[frail veldt]

its only early season

[gaunt phoenix]

it's legit the servers are cooked

[frail veldt]

no i have never had exactly 0.8

its always like 0.85~

[gaunt phoenix]

rip

[warped mantle]

[frail veldt]

or maybe like 0.82

[warped mantle]

sorry solo

**

[frail veldt]

no matter what my window is its always been like that

so not sure what I can do

[warped mantle]

go 600 sqw

I heard kush and biceps (UHDK gamer) talk about sqw in like df s2

and they said they play sub 100

[gaunt phoenix]

this is why outlaw doesnt perform as well as it sims

[vapid sundial]

[warped mantle]

it was the sqw all along!!

it was those extra 10 globals

sec i will record my bars trying to play

[frail veldt]

I've done 300 it didn't help

@gaunt phoenix is yours really 800ms on the dot in logs?

[warped mantle]

@near rock has good gcds too

[gaunt phoenix]

it seems between 801-810 mostly

[warped mantle]

pc gap

gg

[frail veldt]

I gotta recheck mine to see but I'm on mobile

Maybe it's not as bad as I remember

I mean it's not like my DPS is bad lol

[balmy topaz]

Mine is on the default whatever that is

[warped mantle]

ofc

[balmy topaz]

I’ve not ever changed it

[warped mantle]

but if u can gain globals

why not

[warped mantle]

ofc*

[balmy topaz]

Ye that’s why I’m interested

[warped mantle]

i mean 400 is fucked for me

ill show u

[balmy topaz]

So wait what is your sqw solo

[gaunt phoenix]

400

[balmy topaz]

[vivid vessel]

Solo

[balmy topaz]

Apparently slower is better

[vivid vessel]

A guy dmed me to tell me I have gaps between my gcds

Am I washed up

[gaunt phoenix]

ye noob

[vivid vessel]

Gg

[mighty pivot]

time to retire to assa

[frank finch]

i mean when i tune in to your live runs your always losing in dps now so i think so yea

[shy flume]

zac u also play 400 =?

[vivid vessel]

150

[vivid vessel]

Ye true

[shy flume]

sweet spot

[gaunt phoenix]

i feel like <10ms delay is just combatlog being weird

like i know im queueing every global but still get them

[balmy topaz]

Solos gonna go through zacs logs

[warped mantle]

150 is pretty normal

I feel

[balmy topaz]

And count how many globals he’s missed

[frail veldt]

Yeah that's what it feels like

[warped mantle]

400 is way too high

idk

lemme try 510

150

[frail veldt]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bHMC8mB9hPG2rTRL?fight=8&type=damage-done&source=489

[vivid vessel]

I remember in tww beta

[frail veldt]

Can someone check mine

I'm on mobile

[vivid vessel]

When I logged on the first time

[frail veldt]

Lol

[vivid vessel]

And I had 400 Ms spell queue and I didnt know

[gaunt phoenix]

im actually faster than the gcd !

[vivid vessel]

And it felt super laggy

And I couldn't figure it out

[frail veldt]

Wow gamer

[vivid vessel]

Till I changed the spell queue

So ye idk

I decided tthat I wouldn't talk about spell queue anymore since df anyway because it doesn't feel like it's supposed to feel

[warped mantle]

ye this is my situation cuh

ppl say 400 is fine

that shit is unbelievably laggy

[vivid vessel]

Logic says you should play with infinite spell queue

I do that and I feel lag

So

[warped mantle]

EU debuff?

[vivid vessel]

I gave up

Eu debuff cuh

[gaunt phoenix]

you are skill issued i fear

[frail veldt]

Rip

[shy flume]

you should also use cancelspellque macro for blind

[vivid vessel]

For blind?

[warped mantle]

spellqueue schizoposting

good session

[frail veldt]

You don't need to for one gcd buttons

[shy flume]

for example if u press another snister strike

[frail veldt]

That's only for off gcd stuff

[vivid vessel]

Solo

[shy flume]

u can insta blind

[vivid vessel]

Cheap shot isn't on ADR right

[gaunt phoenix]

lemme look

[vivid vessel]

I recently started using cheap shot

And I'm getting cancer

[frail veldt]

The window is auto canceling

[shy flume]

its not auto cancel for me

or

if your spellque is too high

[covert kestrel]

Can we go back to dooming this conversation is giving me vibes

[gaunt phoenix]

yea it's not

[warped mantle]

????

aintnoway

[gaunt phoenix]

i mean it's better than having to kidney in stealth

[warped mantle]

just unbind kidney too

[vivid vessel]

But is kidney on it

[warped mantle]

when i see zac send 7cp kidney

it acc physically pains me

[vivid vessel]

Kidney feels faster I don't get it

[wintry solar]

Spec sucks. Just reroll. You see what they're talking about? Too much work.

[vivid vessel]

It's how we play in melee comp

Yo not use aoe stops

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not in the spell data

but maybe the new AR is scripted idk

[vivid vessel]

We kick everything

[wintry solar]

Is that good Frontier?

[vapid sundial]

Not a real outlaw.

[vivid vessel]

And use kidney

[warped mantle]

7cp tho

💔

[vapid sundial]

Bro doesn't know about gouging

[vivid vessel]

Ye

7cp is 5 actually

[warped mantle]

bro's sending supercharger kidneys

[vivid vessel]

[pliant wind]

[vapid sundial]

Overall doesn't matter

Timing matters

[warped mantle]

na good overall + deplete

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-gif-7728585127824464103

[warped mantle]

[covert kestrel]

Me to outlaw

[nocturne mirage]

Key timed and the healer ain’t bitching at me in discord, happy clam

[vapid sundial]

Enhance was a vibe

[mighty pivot]

what if they made it so that SC kindey is aoe?

[wintry solar]

Aint that the truth

[covert kestrel]

enhance deez

[vapid sundial]

Healer telling me when he wants my defensives

[gaunt phoenix]

what if they bring back ER instead of SC

[vapid sundial]

What about kyw

[gaunt phoenix]

Wtf

[wintry solar]

What if otters were beavers

[mighty pivot]

what if they bring back revealing strike

[frail veldt]

wait wdym??

its not on the reduced gcd?

whaaat????

[vapid sundial]

Kyw would be giga juice

Give me

[frail veldt]

also are all my gcds like this? lol

[gaunt phoenix]

i think kyw was a typo for ky-s

Lol

i thought not think

[vapid sundial]

No

Lmaoo

[gaunt phoenix]

im not sure, the spell data suggests no

[frail veldt]

thats so cooked

[gaunt phoenix]

but AR could be totally scripted instead of caring about the spell data

[vivid vessel]

Was bad luck protection, I wish bro

[gaunt phoenix]

idk

[vapid sundial]

Cmon solo

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=288979/keep-your-wits-about-you

[gaunt phoenix]

wits my beloved

[royal ermine]

bring it back

[gaunt phoenix]

"blade flurries" is funny

[royal ermine]

[vapid sundial]

Stack to 15 and spam ss

The old days

[covert kestrel]

Make it an outlaw talent so sub can keep current sc

[gaunt phoenix]

some are good

807ms

[warped mantle]

solo is there any easy way to log dummies

it usually doesn't work for me

i wnana test diff sqws

[mighty pivot]

in what way does it not work?

[gaunt phoenix]

it tends to work for me

[warped mantle]

I combatlog

start the app

and it doesn't log it

[vapid sundial]

Logging dummies works the normal way

lol

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe go to some interior like rogue order hall dummies

[vapid sundial]

Skill issue im afraid

[quaint mauve]

hi guys

[warped mantle]

bet

[frail veldt]

okay so maybe I could increase it a little

[quaint mauve]

im learning brewmaster rn

[royal ermine]

dont you have to manually turn on combat logging for outdoor stuff I haven't done it in forever

[vapid sundial]

[mighty pivot]

sometimes it takes some time before it flushes the log. But stopping, and starting the log again and getting in combat seems to flush the old log

[vapid sundial]

Never had to

Just works for me

[gaunt phoenix]

yea maybe it doesnt start live logging immediately

[wintry solar]

Stinky

[gaunt phoenix]

i just check at the end

[wintry solar]

Brews smell like peepee

[vapid sundial]

They small like a bar

So same thing

[balmy topaz]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cvQZABTPXMgYpwrm?fight=1&type=summary what’s my gcd solo

I’m not on the pc

Am I cooked

How bad am I

[gaunt phoenix]

i see like 807-817ms

seems fine

holy

you are so good at this game

[balmy topaz]

HE DOESNT MISS A SECONDS

[covert kestrel]

A new alt will only delay the journey to true inner peace, stop searching in game and start searching within

[quaint mauve]

ur right

back to rogue

[vapid sundial]

[balmy topaz]

@vivid vessel you want a lesson?

[gaunt phoenix]

ur so hot

[balmy topaz]

[sudden fulcrum]

what a gamer

[covert kestrel]

Ruby's ego bout to bust

[gaunt phoenix]

802ms

[balmy topaz]

My head can’t fit through my door gg

[pliant wind]

pog

[gaunt phoenix]

im afraid you are skill issued now

[balmy topaz]

Ahh damn

[mighty pivot]

[balmy topaz]

Knew it was too good to be true

[balmy topaz]

[gaunt phoenix]

yea i think wclogs is like +/- 5ms

or something

[wintry solar]

Look man, either you play rogue or reroll game. Is there really a 3rd option?

[balmy topaz]

Okay so basically

[wintry solar]

People say there is but they're wrong

[balmy topaz]

I don’t need to change my spell window

[warped mantle]

congrats

[covert kestrel]

Make it 800ms

[gaunt phoenix]

big brain

[covert kestrel]

Just to stunt on the haters

[balmy topaz]

[vapid sundial]

It looks like I pretty much always hit my gcd.

Tho I'm looking at giga old logs. Ain't got nothing new

[gaunt phoenix]

nice

[vapid sundial]

8-10ms life

[warped mantle]

whats ur sqw

[vapid sundial]

I play on default xd

[warped mantle]

weird

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

this is how spell queue is supposed to work

but sometimes it's not how it be

[vapid sundial]

I could and should probably swap it

Cuz I spam

But Idk when I play again

[shy flume]

Do you guys use nvidia + boost btw? or i

[vapid sundial]

And Idk what to put it as

No reason to not have boost on

[keen belfry]

GG

[gaunt phoenix]

just keep it if you are good

nice

[keen belfry]

I looked at 2 and the other was 815 is does that mean I’m cooked and it’s gg?

[gaunt phoenix]

yea time to uninstall

[balmy topaz]

You should probably reroll Assa

[gaunt phoenix]

wrong game for you boomer

[balmy topaz]

Old fart

[mighty pivot]

or devoker

[keen belfry]

803 here gg

[fresh acorn]

What does it mean

[covert kestrel]

To post in #outlaw from now on you must provide logs of an average of 95% casts <805ms

[gaunt phoenix]

ur going back in time

[covert kestrel]

Pin it solo

[warped mantle]

ye the actual dps dont matter

just sqw matters now

I 99 LOGGED MY SQW

HOOOLY

[high thunder]

second day of trying out outlaw as new main
i have never felt dumber than this in my entire life

[gaunt phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

oh wrong spec

[warped mantle]

wrong spec noob

[gaunt phoenix]

i thought i had an outlaw one

[high thunder]

i press my buttons very fast

yet im last dmg on meter

pepehands

[vapid sundial]

@vivid vessel

When do I come back

[gaunt phoenix]

@vivid vessel

[warped mantle]

i can press sinister strike 100 times in a row

and do no dam

fast no matter

[high thunder]

@vivid vessel how do i do more dmg ? my left hand is very very fast (confirmed before)

[gaunt phoenix]

[vapid sundial]

[wintry solar]

Are you zigging instead of zagging?

[warped mantle]

need to press buttons harder

not faster

[high thunder]

i think im zigging and zagging at the same time

[vapid sundial]

Stop gunking up my Zac ping

@vivid vessel

[high thunder]

should i also use my left foot fingers?

[warped mantle]

use a pedal

for ADR

then u press pedal and its like

ZOOOOOOM

[high thunder]

i feel like ive heard that before

[wintry solar]

And chew on your cheeks

[vapid sundial]

[warped mantle]

[mighty pivot]

did they enable all dungeons on PTR yet or are they late again?

[pallid wraith]

DDR pad outlaw unmatched gamer workout

[wintry solar]

I have a joystick with a shit load of buttons on it. May give that a spin.

[frail veldt]

Honestly how is anyone losing on Dps to me when my gcd is 0.85

Like gitrekt

[wintry solar]

Don't you play without capstones?

[frail veldt]

Always

[wintry solar]

I knew it

Your thorn in your side had to come from somewhere

What a productive day it's been

[shy flume]

does nvidia boost or nvidia reflex does anything ?

[hybrid crown]

I actually had a pedal a long time ago and I bound it to kick lol

One of those audio transcribe foot pedals

[random stirrup]

technically it reduces input latency by a small amount

[vapid sundial]

Boost makes your gpu run at 100% at all times

Iirc

[random stirrup]

I think you generally want to be able to render a framerate a bit above your monitor hz to enable it though

[tight kernel]

Whats with the schizo sqw talk

[shy flume]

brother ive i9 9900k 4090 rtx and 360hz 2k monitor

[tight kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/whoa-gif-20492375

[wintry solar]

Baby's first pc

[shy flume]

do i need to tweak anything ?

brother im 36

[warped mantle]

I have a rtx 2060 cuh

[shy flume]

what first pc

[vivid vessel]

Solo

[gaunt phoenix]

!?>@#

[vivid vessel]

When is ptr patch bro..

[warped mantle]

u mean the one with 0 rogue changes?

in like 8 hours

[vivid vessel]

Dude..

[gaunt phoenix]

there was some hotfix 3 hours ago with dungeon stuffs or idk

[wintry solar]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/huge-updates-to-cooldown-manager-coming-soon-sound-external-and-debuff-tracking-377939?utm_source=discord-webhook here are your rogue changes

[cold jewel]

everyone always asks when is patch but no one ever asks how is patch

[vivid vessel]

The dungeons change they did this week were good

[warped mantle]

omggg goated

[vivid vessel]

But then

[warped mantle]

[vivid vessel]

They did so little ??

It's wondering what they are doing

[wintry solar]

The patch doesn't care about my needs

[warped mantle]

fury have escaped the target cap prison right

[cold jewel]

when are you popo

[warped mantle]

w thunderblast changes

mfs doing 40m now first pull

[wintry solar]

I'm always popo wdym

[gaunt phoenix]

i prefer you type solo

not Solo

it's different

[craggy barn]

lol

Solo is his fathers name

[remote pecan]

ey this is actually good

[frail veldt]

No wonder you lag in raid what

Jfc

[mighty pivot]

really good change by them

[craggy barn]

next they gotta neef spec complexity so that theres no dumb tracking shit

like UB

or the sub autobattack thing

[cold jewel]

thats good

[mighty pivot]

the thing is, they could literally leave UB the same but provide a buff to track its CD. No idea why they didn't do that at the very least

[wintry solar]

What's really gonna happen is we get wrath combat back

Because

As per mafic

[mighty pivot]

👍 🏄‍♀️ 🏄‍♂️

[wintry solar]

Outlaw is held back by roll the bones rng
👍
🏄 🏄‍♀️

[mighty pivot]

don't forget how our 3 minute cooldown doesn't hit hard enough

[wintry solar]

Man

I have a headache

[covert kestrel]

I need a megathread of all the cooked mafic takes

[wintry solar]

I don't want to think about that one lol

[mighty pivot]

it will be a GIGA thread tbh the dude has 23k posts

[covert kestrel]

Lay off the creamsicle energy drinks

[wintry solar]

They're not here yet

I should be asleep by now

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-kitten-eepy-eepy-cat-cute-kitten-gif-2354054411599231174

[wintry solar]

I work night shift and it's lunch time

I got to detain a guy at work today

Shit was crazy

[mighty pivot]

kinky

[wintry solar]

Wish it was you tho

[mighty pivot]

same

[wintry solar]

👉 👈 🥺

[mighty pivot]

my collar is just sitting there in a drawer

[neat mist]

What in tarnation

[wintry solar]

The guy that socked me in the neck was named peter

What a coincidence

You know what's crazy tho

People actually unironically play vulpera

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/vulpera-world-of-warcraft-warcraft-gif-26162364

[wintry solar]

I leveled one to 36 for a bit but got tired of it

Can't imagine having one at max lvl

Is it weird to say I want to feel what she's feeling

[mighty pivot]

got tired of being horny the moment you log in?

[wintry solar]

What is that like. Apparently it's like your dog is high

[covert kestrel]

[wintry solar]

Yeah. Hated rubbing one out before logging in. So inconvenient.

[wintry solar]

I forgot to finish this sentence. When you do that to a dog, it sends chemicals in your dog's brain and crazy shit happens idk

[vapid sundial]

shut up bro

best race

[vapid sundial]

ya'll dont know about those vulpera animations

and how crisp they are

[covert kestrel]

Sure I do

They're just goblin animations

Goblin deez

[wintry solar]

The sit animation while logging out is sick

[mighty pivot]

rogues are stuck with 2 animations anyway

[wintry solar]

Me and bro just in situations

[vivid vessel]

Phone bro

Wasn't my choice

[gaunt phoenix]

ah

i forgive you

[vivid vessel]

Ty cuh

I should turn off that shit tbh

[vapid sundial]

Solo = serious

frfr

[cold jewel]

why would you turn off ur phone?

[vivid vessel]

i will turn you off

[cold jewel]

you would have to turn me on first

[vivid vessel]

brb i need to read that wow article about the cooldown manager

[frank finch]

bro

[warped mantle]

[frank finch]

sometimes my cast are below the .8 gcd is that even possible

[warped mantle]

combatlog error

[frank finch]

kk

[wintry solar]

Zac, it's stuff that should've been there on launch

Still good though nonetheless

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix

i thinkj the only thing i need now for the cooldown manager

[gaunt phoenix]

nice

[vivid vessel]

is the ability to separate rtb buffs

in their own buff bar

if there is that i think its legit enough

to play outlaw

not bad updates

but ye

should have been in

day 1

[mighty pivot]

I could see them supporting multiple custom groups in the future (or via an addon ) their defensives group is already a secondary buff group

[fresh acorn]

They look like the good guys now fixing a 0.0.1 version of an idea

[vivid vessel]

ye

i think their bars

are also like

[fresh acorn]

Also I’m sure the initial feedback helped set priorities

[vivid vessel]

not what people want from bars i feel like

its so fucking big

takes up half your screen

not usable

[mighty pivot]

They must make them scalable by default, but I also don't think it's bad to leave skinning to addons

assuming that they are made skinnable

[vapid blaze]

yeah idea behind that is to have addons fix it 😄

[tight kernel]

How much dps loss is trickers without ks

someone smarter than me show me the sim

vs fb

[gaunt phoenix]

trickster without ks was like -14% dps

live or ptr?

[true cedar]

whats the dps gain of stacking an extra 20%mastery in a trickster without ks?

[gaunt phoenix]

erm

[true cedar]

the answer is too much. its too good.

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[true cedar]

B)

[wintry solar]

This guy

[true cedar]

i love solo and his funny numbers they calculate what my mood is for the day

[wintry solar]

Same but with Tob

I ain't seen him around though so I'm coasting atm

[true cedar]

tob wil com bak i believ

[wintry solar]

Tobfon busy

[covert kestrel]

Tob was there for us during the darkest period of all (solo took a break)

[wintry solar]

Tobfon ran the sims on aceless HO

And found it was viable

He's directly responsible for 1 of my 7 builds

Yeah I brought it up

Aceless

Meaning without Ace

Fight me Mewo

I know you're lurking

[mental harness]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gaunt phoenix]

assless

[vivid vessel]

i prefer hoeless

[shy pecan]

fuck em hoes

[wintry solar]

Hoes get in the way of playing outlaw

[sudden fulcrum]

Unless they play with you

[random stirrup]

Tob was a true kir believer unlike the heretic solo

[cold jewel]

tob oldest person to hit a 10 frfr

[wintry solar]

Tob oldest person

[tight kernel]

live. Im curious if trickers still better for sprocket with all the damage buff we have vs fb even without KS

[gaunt phoenix]

oh on single target, kir fatebound is still good

would be similar to trickster even with ks

[hybrid crown]

I think KIR FB is like basically the same DPS as trickster HO

[gaunt phoenix]

yeh

[tight kernel]

dang okay

[gaunt phoenix]

just remember fatebound has different vanish rules

you try to vanish only when ruthless precision is active or supercharger becomes active

unless you need to because of capped charges or AR

[vivid vessel]

I never vanish as fateboudn

Not needed

Just coins

[keen belfry]

Why no class tuning yet today

[mighty pivot]

class tuning is done until next expansion

[teal dust]

in their eyes everything is perfectly balanced

or they just dont care

[mighty pivot]

the shareholders hate all rogues unconditionally

[lime lake]

Rogues need to unionize and fight the shareholders

But we're too distracted by spec warfare

To unite against the real enemy

[chilly atlas]

so basically like current politics?

[covert heart]

Its okay zac has his next video ready with a click bait title and a thumbnail that is very doomer

We are good to go

[wintry solar]

To be fair

Sub literally takes all our shit

[willow portal]

are my low ilvl set pieces a good excuse for getting shit raid logs?

[lime lake]

The shareholders do that to plant the seeds of hatred

Don't let them take root

Don't let them distract

[covert heart]

All hail the shareholders

[frail veldt]

Check ilvl parse

[covert heart]

As long as they are happy I am happy

[covert heart]

Might depend because sometimes there are like 5 parses at certain ilvl since no plays outlaw 🤣

[random stirrup]

being in the opposite position that outlaw usually is during the first week of a tier is a good thing

[frail veldt]

you can check that

[random stirrup]

if it really is as bad as some people state, then itll get omega buffed once rwf is over as opposed to being gutted the first week of the tier

[frail veldt]

aite yall had me sweatin about my sqw

its fiiiiiine

im actually cracked

[willow portal]

no but like ilvl parses are fine thats why i am asking about my set pieces

[frail veldt]

if your ilvl parses are good then whats the issue

[covert heart]

Or they will nerf it and give that power to mage

[willow portal]

no they are also low

[frail veldt]

set pieces being low ilvl isnt any different than other gear being low ilvl

[frail veldt]

oh

then yeah youre probalby underperforming

whats your adr uptime?

[frail veldt]

o

#outlaw-faq

read up

[willow portal]

64%

[frail veldt]

yeaaah

64% is very very low

that isnt affected by ilvl either

you should be 90+

[lime lake]

FAQ time for sure

[frail veldt]

80-90 is passable

[lime lake]

[frail veldt]

but youre probably missing a lot of core mechanics with that low of uptime

[desert tendon]

i remember my 100% in atal

😔

[gaunt phoenix]

!commonerrors

[ornate heath]

Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.

[frail veldt]

oooo

thats a good command

gotta remember that

[covert kestrel]

lashgoat in zacs chat

[willow portal]

is 90% doable for downtime bosses tho

i tried and got 65 on mug now

[dense bridge]

what if ther ewere a talent that made pistol shot and bte apply our poison too

[gaunt phoenix]

heroic mugzee doesnt have downtime

[willow portal]

well i am doing mythic tho

[gaunt phoenix]

idk the mythic encounter

[random stirrup]

mythic mugzee doesnt really have downtime either wym

[gaunt phoenix]

if you have to stop dps then shit sucks ig

[frail veldt]

yes

[random stirrup]

oh yeah i guess if you're stopping dps but

[frail veldt]

look at other people's logs

[gaunt phoenix]

zac vod !

[willow portal]

i had to run away and hide with blue arrow

[frail veldt]

yeah that wont reduce adr by 30%

[willow portal]

and play weird finger gun mechanics twice

[frail veldt]

I mean itll hurt it a little

[willow portal]

obviously most of that is due to my gameplay

[frail veldt]

just hit a target dummy for 5 minutes and see what your uptime is

[random stirrup]

finger gun isn't a downtime loss and getting the spear is like max 3s out of melee

[hybrid crown]

My team I was hard running out to range to help mine soak it messed up my DPS

[frail veldt]

part of outlaw skill ceiling is how you can minimize downtime while doing mechanics

[daring oxide]

@gaunt phoenix @vivid vessel are M0s next week spammable daily? or are they weekly lockout?

[frail veldt]

outlaw is a hyper mobile class

so you can cheese uptime pretty well

[gaunt phoenix]

ask larian

larias

lapras

[dense bridge]

i want larian to make a fallout game

[gaunt phoenix]

i know jack shit aobut the season

[covert kestrel]

weekly

[frail veldt]

isnt m0 always weekly lockout when m+ isnt out

[dense bridge]

oh yeah they made m0 weekly and made it drop champ gear

in s1

[mighty pivot]

I want larian to maintain outlaw

[remote pecan]

whos giving blizz good feedback about 1 button rotation?

[gaunt phoenix]

from here?

[hybrid crown]

Hasn't it been weekly for like a long time

[covert kestrel]

balance druids

[wintry solar]

I just saw that lol

[daring oxide]

@upper surge are M0s next week weekly or daily lockout?

[vivid vessel]

bro wtf

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm

[vivid vessel]

the cloak does z dps

[tight kernel]

its so hard

[vivid vessel]

ahe ye the boots are broken i forgot

[dense bridge]

what???

[frank finch]

wait what happened to our cloak

[frail veldt]

fury war problems

[gaunt phoenix]

nothing

the boots are broken rn

[frank finch]

oh ok

[remote pecan]

better not be any1 from here when i give the tools

[dense bridge]

i can see for fury yeah when you can feel yourself developing carpal tunnel in real time

that reminds me

i gotta remember to do my hand stretches

[upper surge]

Weekly

[gaunt phoenix]

ty lariat

[covert kestrel]

oh what vurai my answer wasnt good enough??? you need big mr guide over here???

[keen belfry]

Solo told me tuning was today

Let’s see when these notes come out

[wintry solar]

You'll get used to it

[covert kestrel]

ugh i need to lube these darn switches for my darn new keeb

and i just cannot be assed

[keen belfry]

Focus up frontier

[cold jewel]

hello mewo

[gaunt phoenix]

where

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/spy-kids-gif-5729716

[prisma vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/button-mash-spam-press-gaming-gif-12348787

[willow portal]

ok i am improving, got 70% uptime on gally

wtf

[vapid sundial]

get fucked

[sudden fulcrum]

Mine is stuck there too

Apparently the only way to fix it is the Dark moon Fair buff

[mighty pivot]

Does it count for at least three paw-ints when a cat is in a basket?

[willow portal]

should ar uptime be that stressful?

or is that just major missplay still

[random stirrup]

i wouldn't call it stressful, it's one of the most fun parts of the spec imo

[willow portal]

i mean is it usually really really close?

[random stirrup]

once you are well practiced I dont think its difficult to maintain generally

and its not something you really actively think about since ar uptime is mostly a cumulation of playing the spec properly

youll still have periods of not having ar at times from getting a mechanic or bad rng (mostly for the 1fth build in dungeons) but it wont be horrible super long periods if you played well up to that point

[midnight granite]

No, it's not usually really really close

[willow portal]

ok so i gotta understand my buttons better then

[midnight granite]

Every wrong gcd is exponentially affecting your adr uptime because of how cdr works

[white marten]

Holy fk pugs are so bad they can literally be classified as a keystone affix.

[midnight granite]

Bad rotation = bad adr uptime

[random stirrup]

sometimes ar comes back up and you still have 15s of AR left if you have 6buffs and you're ace proccing a bunch

[white marten]

Sex rotation = 90+ adr uptime

[sudden fulcrum]

ya i'd rather not play than pug

[white marten]

Why does nobody interrupt or CC ever?!

[sudden fulcrum]

last week i tried to do a last minute ML and they actually completely covered the second boss platform in Azerite

never seen that before in my life

[sudden fulcrum]

what did they miss?

[white marten]

This missed everything. In a priory too, of all dungeons. Casters galore

[sudden fulcrum]

ooh that's rough. PSF is a big kick key

[white marten]

Everyone should have atleast 25+ interrupts by the end of that key.

[sudden fulcrum]

interrupts are the most annoying mistake because anyone can interrupt, and sometimes people just don't for no discernible reason

[white marten]

Like bro, just 1 button rotation if you have to, just kick!

[sudden fulcrum]

fr

[glass mortar]

Ur variance is high in cdr with this spec

Sometimes it will come off cd with like 2s of ar up sometimes it'll come off cd with 8s of ar left

If u are consistently barely making ar it could be a sign of gameplay issues tho for sure

[white marten]

Variance can even be higher when playing HO

[dawn talon]

its really stressful when youre learning something new, when i was learning 1fth i was stressed af over staying ~95%

[willow portal]

isnt HO just default

[willow portal]

whats 1fth

[dawn talon]

1 point fan the hammer

[willow portal]

ah ok i am not playing that

[indigo token]

question

judging by what we can tell from the notes on the cd manager

will we be able to fanagle a KIR alert out of it

[willow portal]

we can not upgrade s2 items next week anymore right?

[cinder relic]

ya

'

[red zinc]

‘

[keen belfry]

‘

[red zinc]

not even the same symbol actually

How he do that

[vivid vessel]

'

[willow portal]

is there any value in the engi helmet?

[frank finch]

'

[lime lake]

'

[midnight granite]

'

[frail veldt]

'?

[frail veldt]

You shouldn't focus on the uptime

You should just focus on the rotational rules and the uptime will result from that

[willow portal]

i mean i felt like i was following the rules

[daring oxide]

'

[covert heart]

I read alot of the info in discord and really pratice. It takes quite a while

[keen belfry]

Outlaw is a spec where you feel like you are doing a lot right, but you are probably making more “small” mistakes that actually add up

Low GCD, lotta thinking

You will mess up

[white marten]

,

[sullen narwhal]

So much for slow and methodical requiring more thought, completely backwards, the faster apm requires you do to more calculations for a set amount of time.

So if the mechanics are equalized in terms of difficulty, higher apm will ALWAYS be more difficult

It's a total cope from people who have boomer hands and can't handle fast rotations

[fathom bramble]

yes

always has been

[willow portal]

so, how do i track my ar uptime when on dummy

combat resets each vanish

[remote pecan]

you can cheat, set details to update every 3 seconds

[balmy topaz]

Do it on overall

Guys I’ve been gone for 4 hours watching a film and there’s no buffs what have you been doing

[azure vortex]

Can we get CE for undermine raid between 5-12 august

[lucid sandal]

It's gone thank god

(supposedly)

[frank finch]

it did it went from 30k mastery to 15k

at max ilvl

[tender wedge]

Yeah it got touched by the void in the worst way

Or best, depending on your viewpoint

[balmy topaz]

Best, it was a delve trinket, you really wanna do delves for anything

[willow portal]

this was 5:27 on dummy

[tender wedge]

Honestly I don’t hate them, people seem to think it’s tough for rogue but like…what?

But having a gigabis trinket on that kind of rng is pretty gross

[cinder relic]

Solo content is fine for rogues idk where this narrative comes from

Just use kidney and evasion

tf

[fathom bramble]

you are also allowed to just run away and heal

some delve bosses can't even hit you from over 10 yards away

and we are wicked fast

[tender wedge]

I know right, I find outlaw especially one of the easiest

[covert kestrel]

the vocal scrubs on reddit wowhead and the forums fucking HATE vanish in solo content

[tender wedge]

Eh that can be annoying I guess

[fathom bramble]

I meean in the context of delves though

vanish never drops combat

[tender wedge]

The only thing that I prefer some other specs for is the end boss when you can just burst him down, outlaw takes a bit longer

[covert kestrel]

just switch to sub

[sturdy crow]

It does if your casting 1 ability every 3 seconds like forum posters

[fathom bramble]

maybe

when I try to drop combat with vanish in a delve I can't even get it to work on purpose

[tender wedge]

I’ve done that but I’m so much happier on outlaw and it’s really not hard, I usually cbf

[fathom bramble]

I started just gunning it to the checkpoint and dying instead

[sturdy crow]

Brann betrays you sometimes

[fathom bramble]

I feel like people just don't know that vanish doesn't drop combat if you execute an offensive spell fast enough in general

[willow portal]

this is a lie

i had delve bosses despawn

when i used vanish

[willow portal]

yeah well

whats "fast enough"

[fathom bramble]

now that's the real problem with vanish

"fast enough" is random

so you have to do it nearly instantly eeveerytimee

so if you aren't rocking a macro for it you will fuck it up at some point

[buoyant cosmos]

I saw someone suggest doing it during FTH, but that's not perfect either.

[willow portal]

i mean i am sitting on 90 cpm and and still had bosses despawn with that

[cinder relic]

I dont caer about them tf

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/bernie-mac-soul-men-fuck-them-kids-fuck-dem-kids-bernie-mac-fuck-them-kids-gif-5525086386453151780

[red zinc]

whats the point of this

the ilvl is upgrade enough

[vivid vessel]

you get fucked if you dont mythic raid

that;s the point

i guess

idk

[willow portal]

wait

the boots are raid drop=

[vivid vessel]

its gonna be quite ass tho

[fathom bramble]

my bad I guess, I've never had a boss reset to vanish in 100s of delves

[willow portal]

i thought those would be dungeon

[vivid vessel]

till you get the mythic ones

[glass mortar]

in delves stuff should only ever reset if u somehow pull and vanish before brann can catch up to interact with u or u let him die and dont rez him and vanish without immediatly reopening up

[willow portal]

didnt want to call you a lier, i typed too fast without reading on

[glass mortar]

its pretty shit outside delves tho ngl

thank christ for bran

[willow portal]

well bran also goes invis so idk

like i had bosses reset legit mid fight

[vapid sundial]

yucky stats too

[willow portal]

with vanish

[buoyant cosmos]

I had the underpin despawn a few times while vanishing, but that's from Brann casting feign death and me not noticing.

[glass mortar]

brann doesnt go invis

ive never had brann go invis

[willow portal]

btw, i found a good strat for solo delves

[glass mortar]

he cannot body pull shit even when hes visible

[willow portal]

just take healer bran and put tricks on him

[glass mortar]

he will only cause combat with stuff u hit

[keen belfry]

Man that’s cooked but it’s good for cope, now if I lose to anyone in a dungeon it’s cuz they have mythic boots I don’t

Gg

Free cope

[fathom bramble]

only resets I've ever seen were from bran leaving the combat area when he had aggro

but I always attributed that to tricks

though I can see how vanish could cause the same thing

[willow portal]

i only saw it on some bosses

didnt keep track tho

but one was the fungal folly one, could have been early in the fight tho

[fathom bramble]

bran getting feared is all I remember

[willow portal]

another that was reset mid fight was the spiral weave one

[glass mortar]

only time ive ever had it happen is if brann wasnt with me cause he got caught on something, or he died

he doesnt count as a target when hes dead for it

[willow portal]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/g8pGHupAcSjwLSkUCJjZtb
am i simming low?

[harsh forge]

yeah i’ve never really had an issue in delves with vanish

[glass mortar]

ur simming for like 3% under pure bis profile gear so no

[fathom bramble]

back to the timing thing what I would reeecommend for most players is just using a macro that Vanishes straight into an offeensive spell

and making sure you are not in a gcd when you preess it

just for opeen world stuff

[willow portal]

for most content that would be fine but there would be open world stuff where you vnaish for the dropped combat and stuff

[fathom bramble]

2 different keys would be ideal

[willow portal]

^^

just make a version for each finisher and one for sinister after

i am crafting a helmet now due to bad luck reasons, are there any cool procs on the engi helmet i could use?

[fathom bramble]

not really

the health potion is bugged and doesn't scale with our talent

it's a nice helm regardless though since it can be 100% vers

[glass mortar]

yea hp pot tinker is just bad

unlucky

especially with the new pot

[willow portal]

hm

i will sim but i have 25% haste already so pure vers might be nice

[buoyant cosmos]

You could recraft the haste off of your ring(s)

[willow portal]

sim says recrafting one ring is the best solution right now but i am missing helmet still so will see

[snow hill]

The most, toxic, vile and infuriating experience I've ever had in WoW.

I killed the bitch a month ago and the amount of times I got him to <20% only for it to reset on vanish nearly caused me to throw my computer into the pool.

I figured it out that that it only happened if I vanished when Brann was beaten out of the fight. Every single window that happened would 100% trigger it.

So I just had to hold my Autism and CDs of Brann was incapacitated. So toxic.

[vagrant saddle]

it reset for me once while bran was not down, have no clue what caused it but thats the only time vanish reset something for me in delves

[torpid fiber]

Sometimes brann gets bored and fucks off

[snow hill]

Well, I've been having the same issue whenever I go in to Solo parts of Amirdrassil. I literally have to play Sin' spec 🤮 because Outlaw and Sub both do it

[torpid fiber]

Yeah some mobs just instantly reset

It's egregious

[hybrid crown]

We need a spreadsheet of boot DPS value so we get ours first 😊

This has got to be like Uber bis for outlaw

[naive river]

hey I have a question. I like HO better then KiR whats the dmg difference next patch? stilla ~4%?

and I would assume when you break old 4 piece you would go back to the 10% haste version not the supercharger version.

[agile quiver]

this was the example build I was given: #outlaw message

keeping supercharger, but swapping from Sleight of Hand back to Loaded Dice

[naive river]

that sigil trinket sounds cool lol

anyone know how many 2ndary stats we get from the reshi wraps socket thing? Been trying to look it up and I'm failing

[covert kestrel]

gonna be more next patch likely, but still relatively playable

[frank finch]

we have tunning bois

@vivid vessel

[naive river]

wait that sub buff is huge if blades wasnt effecting nimble fury before.

[frank finch]

yeah it was not

[torpid fiber]

nooooooo they buffed ks damagw

Now we have to sit KS out

Actually kinda cringe no?

[naive river]

brother I know people hate the overcap thing but i love the new KS

[gaunt phoenix]

Zac is gonna shit at the trickster nerf

[naive river]

haha

[torpid fiber]

I think it was cool before where it was a 0.4% dps diff

So you could basically do either

[naive river]

why do they keep nerfing bladeflurry.

[torpid fiber]

They didn't fix fatebound ST though

[frank finch]

tails buff

sheesh

[naive river]

they nerf it by nerfing the amount of killing spress you can do then nerf it in the nerf and now nerf it through the hero talent

[haughty wigeon]

@vivid vessel

[random stirrup]

killing spree on the pipeline to 30% of st damage soon

[torpid fiber]

Cold Blood change seems good but also we don't use it so lol lmao

[frank finch]

yea thats for sin

[frail veldt]

lol is this real?

[frank finch]

now they actually 90 sec

[torpid fiber]

Yes

[crisp canopy]

oh no

[frank finch]

yes

[torpid fiber]

It's real

[daring oxide]

See I told you all just have faith

[frail veldt]

I mean

[frank finch]

all the op specs got nerfed

[frail veldt]

trickster was way ahead of fatebound

but

what happen to comensatory changes

I literally called this btw

[frank finch]

that ww buff is sus tho

[frail veldt]

they buff st and nerf BF so that they dont increase our aoe

[daring oxide]

Is it a nerf? I’d assume the buffs to all damage and KS balances out the aoe while being a ST gain?

[frank finch]

its still an aoe buff but yea i know what u mean

[frail veldt]

is there anyone more objective that can say how outlaw is performing on ptr?

cuz zac keeps saying its garbage

but it doesnt seem that bad

but I honestly cant tell

performing in m+ specifically

[crisp canopy]

outlaw losing to tank = nerf... makes sense lmfao

[frail veldt]

see hearing this is whats confusing

cuz people say that

but then I also see outlaw top meters in overall

[random stirrup]

black arrow eating its 9th 8% nerf of the patch

[cinder relic]

OUtlaw wasn't nerfed...

[frail veldt]

so like

[frank finch]

its the same as last one

net buff in aoe

[frail veldt]

oh I didnt even see the overall buffs

[daring oxide]

Outlaw fatebound got a buff too

[frank finch]

i assume

[torpid fiber]

We'll need sims to see the net result of these changes

[frail veldt]

thats actually good

im kinda happy with this change tbh

trickster being THAT ahead in aoe was silly

[cinder relic]

I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say they aren't nerfing outlaw

[frail veldt]

imo

Id prefer that they close the gap on the two specs

[cinder relic]

Without seeing a single sim or even thinking about these numbers

[frail veldt]

hero talents*

[daring oxide]

They buffed outlaw ST especially as fatebound a bit, and the aoe adjustment is most likely to compensate for the ST buff

[naive river]

I like FB for most raid and trick for M+

[frail veldt]

theres no way a 3.5% overall and 15% ks buff doesnt outweigh a 5% nerf to bf

theres no way

[torpid fiber]

I'm still kinda blegh on the KS change

[frail veldt]

I really feel like its gotta be a buff right?

[daring oxide]

It does outweigh it imo

[gaunt phoenix]

General changes are ~5%

Fatebound gets an extra ~3%

[daring oxide]

People are missing fatebound buffs

[frank finch]

tails is big in aoe right

[torpid fiber]

huge news for fatebound on pure single target with no adds

[naive river]

I don't see why people hate on the new KS its so much better

[daring oxide]

So we got like a 8% buff as fatebound

[frank finch]

doesnt matter still trash

[daring oxide]

ST

[brisk crypt]

ngl chiefs I have no idea what to make of these tuning changes

[gaunt phoenix]

It's just... a long channel on the highest apm spec

[torpid fiber]

Oh tbc I think new ks is way better, but specifically I think it was neat tuning the way it was a 0.4% dps gain to cancel it early, which is a small enough gain that you don't have to but everyone I heard talk about it said it felt good to cancel it early

[runic gulch]

Isn’t having to intentionally interrupt the channeled cast of your main dps ability because it isn’t worth it more cringe lol?

[frail veldt]

thats huge

[fathom bramble]

think of it this way. If new KS was an entirely new spell without the old horrible version to compare it to how would you feeel?

[naive river]

give your wrists a sec to recoup

[covert heart]

I told you big buffs incoming

[torpid fiber]

But it's not your main dps ability? Outlaw doesn't have a main dps ability that's not how the spec works.

[frail veldt]

i dont think people hate it over the old one

[torpid fiber]

Outlaw abilities are all in a union and work together to push each other up

[frail veldt]

I think people are upset at how close it was to being SUPER awesome

[haughty wigeon]

This

[runic gulch]

It’s your main offensive cd lol

[haughty wigeon]

Like there’s

[frail veldt]

idk about that

[covert heart]

We are so back

[daring oxide]

They remove the channel, they make it hit our current target, and it’ll be perfect

[haughty wigeon]

No reason why to make the duration 1 second less

[violet lance]

ARE WE BACK?

[haughty wigeon]

Yes

[torpid fiber]

again like

That's not how outlaw is conceptualised for most of us

[covert heart]

We never left babe

[daring oxide]

Or they remove the Chanel and make it behave like bladestorm in a single gcd or two, also perfect

[frail veldt]

I dont have an issue with KS being a lot of our damage

I just think it would be better if it was shorter

[haughty wigeon]

Same

[daring oxide]

8% buff ST as fatebound

[naive river]

I don't think we ever went anywhere. I thinkt he sub buffs to blades doing dmg on nimble fury might be insane though.

[frail veldt]

and I dont see a great reason to not have it be shorter

personally

which is what makes it frustrating

[haughty wigeon]

But at the same time

It’s so much better than old killing spree

[daring oxide]

Honestly the KS buff

[frail veldt]

Im more than happy with burying the old killing spree and never looking back

[frank finch]

im not gonna be here when zac blows up

someone record it plz

[haughty wigeon]

I don’t think I care about its duration

[daring oxide]

What coefficients are we at now

[torpid fiber]

I think outlaw is cool as fuck because every button changes a resource in some way and everything works together like an engine rather than being a spec where your abilities do nothing and then you get a big burst every minute