bro is tired from the world
#outlaw
stone vault
lime lake
haughty wigeon
this rings true even today
stone vault
its extra funny because it comes from a ret player
haughty wigeon
EL is so good cause key pusher uses it! surely that means your wrong mr tcer
stone vault
so yeah
haughty wigeon
even tho is just like
azure vortex
I literally had to argue with a ret saying bop removing stuns is a pvp talent
lime lake
he would know better than anyone
haughty wigeon
kinda okay but not gods gift to ret
def not worth taking over 5% haste from st spenders
azure vortex
Grandpa is playing ret since the game came out
haughty wigeon
nah alot of rets think tracking boss/mob timers to see when they can bop or sac is "good skill ceiling" to justify ret having no observable difference between good ones and bad ones
specs not allowed to have any ceiling 
lime lake
divine hammer at least gave it a tiny bit
haughty wigeon
remove divine hammer the absolute lowest bar of a skill ceiling is to much for the average ret player apparently
lime lake
good thing they shot that in the head
haughty wigeon
even tho its uptime was cut by more than 75% or something, the average ret player still wants it dead
haughty wigeon
cant even remotely keep its uptime
thats the point
haughty wigeon
but the amount of hammers you drop when its up as templar makes it "worth" the 2min cd
lime lake
except adr 
haughty wigeon
and i use that term loosely
haughty wigeon
they did the same thing to breath
nah nah nmah
new breath actually rocks
this is what dh should have been too
lime lake
no i mean previous changes
haughty wigeon
if they wanted to fuck it
lime lake
breath used to be 100% uptime but they nerfed it so you couldnt do that
haughty wigeon
ah
lime lake
then now theyve changed it to be decent
haughty wigeon
oic
lime lake
(apparently anyway, i havent tried it)
haughty wigeon
its actually pretty sweat
based on
your procs consumed
so still kinda uptimey
stone vault
you wanna spot a good ret ? take him to cinderbrew and let him do first boss
stone vault
and check whether he's pressing divine storm or final verdict
lime lake
never ask a ret which finisher hes pressing first boss of darkflame
haughty wigeon
i can still smoke ret padders
stone vault
"bUt ADds NeEd tO DiE"
haughty wigeon
by playing like a normal human being
wow i dont need to spam ds on the darkflame first boss
all i need is to aim my wake of ashes and hammer of light like im not a blind ape then gg
all dead
stone vault
pretty much
grim spear
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
deft gazelle
wait so what's going on with blade flurry in legacy content. like i activate it and it kills the pack i'm clearing and then i still have the buff but then. the next pack i have to hit them one by one.
gaunt phoenix
it's a bug where if you kill your main target then bf doesnt cleave from it
grim spear
they fix a bug with another bug
gaunt phoenix
it happened after they fixed the other bug where bf was trying to hit dead targets
grim spear
a bit curious how these two things are connected.
deft gazelle
it's blizzard. they don't have to be connected for one to break the other. spaghetti code 
honest sparrow
it happened after they fixed the other bug where bf was trying to hit dead targe...
I never really checked but does that also work in normal content? Like if i kill a add in m+ with a bte does it not get flurried?
mighty pivot
it will not get flurried
honest sparrow
All this bugs just so we can be hardcapped 
But yea that sounds like it happens nearly never while the bug before was extremly bad
mighty pivot
a bit curious how these two things are connected.
BF was applied a flag to allow dead targets in mop. This was the cause of corpses "eating" BF attacks. Now they removed that and it doesn't allow dead targets, but because BF is slightly delayed from a normal attack, if you overkill an add it is dead the moment they calculate BF, so it is not allowed to cleave
hybrid crown
If they uncapped bf this bug would still have to exist probably
If it were uncapped it would have DR and DR would be messed up by dead targets
mighty pivot
the spell needs to be reimplemented tbh since at least 2 specs are affected by it (no idea if caustic spatter also suffers from this since it works a bit differently). But it's so low impact for "real" content that I don't see that happening
wintry solar
I wonder what ideas the devs want to implement but can't because of bad code
wintry solar
Maybe the can't reduce the CD of ks because it'd delete the entirety of Northrend.
mighty pivot
our trickster set is bugged in two ways at least
but whether that's just rushing or difficult to fix who knows really
glass mortar
its not bugged its just a lil slow
its a chill blade just floating to the enemy target
it gets there when it gets there
💅
maybe thats next gcd
maybe thats this one
who knows 😏
mighty pivot
yaaas queen 
show 'em
vapid blaze
its also just designed very badly
wintry solar
should just not play ace tbh
wintry solar
frrrrr
wintry solar
should just not play ace tbh
the law requires that I say this is a joke
indigo token
BF was applied a flag to allow dead targets in mop. This was the cause of corpse...
???????why though???
willow portal
where can i find the pre dungeon buttons again?
wintry solar
!prekey
ornate heathBOT
Pre-key fuckery
- RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
- DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not
AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points. - After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
- Before entering the first pack
BF into 
Stealth. - Open on pack with AR into BtE.
wintry solar
that?
willow portal
^ye ty
wintry solar
youre welcome
willow portal
is there anything in my ui showing me supercharger stacks?
willow portal
np
vivid vessel
is there anything in my ui showing me supercharger stacks?
you dont really need to see them tbf
covert kestrel
why is your 4th cp so long
covert kestrel
wintry solar
you were messing with the settings werent you
willow portal
i didnt
i just moved icons in the luxthos pack
what professions are you guys going for?
vivid vessel
bro if only i knew
its because its a 1pixel border on a half pixel
willow portal
its because its a 1pixel border on a half pixel
i thought it might be intentional as when that one is full i am on 5cp so perfect for bte during vanish
mighty pivot
due to how wow's UI works it's very difficult to make 1 pixel borders work consistently
covert kestrel
what professions are you guys going for?
my profession is having a job outside so if i need gold i can buy it cause its insanely more profitable than playing wow doing stuff i dont enjoy
willow portal
my profession is having a job outside so if i need gold i can buy it cause its i...
so you are doing alchemy and cooking then ok
subtle field
what are the odds of getting a 5 buff rtb?
willow portal
50/50
subtle field
50/50
not quite how math works XD
im assuming you mean it either happens or it doesnt.
upbeat tundra
i have no idea what i clicked or did to put that
gaunt phoenix
what are the odds of getting a 5 buff rtb?
the base is 2%
with current tier and sleight, 17%
keen belfry
@vivid vessel would a WA that tells you target not fazed when you have coup ready and no fazed on target be good? How often are you noticing this happening
gaunt phoenix
how it works is that 25% of the tooltip value for tier/sleight is added to the 5 buff chance
keen belfry
That’s gotta be a good wa then
vivid vessel
But you need to track the debuff on frames
No
You wanna have it on frames instead
Idk
You wanna early swap of a target before it dies also
So you don't get surprised
Like don't build coup on a target that's dying
Otherwise you cuck yourself with a coup you can't use for 20 s
Very good gameplay
keen belfry
Mmmm yes
I’m gonna make one and see if it’s any good when I’m back
When doo the changes go live
The 5th or something?
vivid vessel
Trickster is such a good hero talent in a theorical world where we have one dev working to fix it's issues for like one afternoon
keen belfry
Yeah trickster bangs
vivid vessel
The 5th or something?
12?
neat mist
you think
wintry solar
theres always an off-season
covert kestrel
We have a week of nothing I think
Delve and m0 week 
What does m0 even drop is it going to be upgrades or naw
keen belfry
I’m back the 2nd
Ready to do m0s
Upgrade in sense it’s 681 champ gear or something
Can go to like 690 or something idk
It’s mainly for catching up
covert kestrel
Can go to like 690 or something idk
keen belfry
Do you guys think NA is ready for awang return?
covert kestrel
They don't call it NAwang for nothing
covert kestrel
It’s mainly for catching up
Veteran tier pieces in the box
neat mist
NAwang 🤤
keen belfry
Mhmm
covert kestrel
Do we know the updated delve loot list? I know this last season got all borked cause people thought S1 delve trinkets were still in the pool but they werent
gaunt phoenix
we know new delve trinkets. dont know if old ones will remain
covert kestrel
willow portal
what kind of mirror universe are you living in
wintry solar
I remember we had one and people were mad
covert kestrel
we had a bis delve trinket for a bit there
NOGGENFOGGER NVR FRGT
willow portal
who wants to farm a delve trinket with only 2 chances each week on the hc version
thats some cooked shit
vapid sundial
I remember we had one and people were mad
didnt we have 2 of them actually
covert kestrel
who wants to farm a delve trinket with only 2 chances each week on the hc versio...
Plus 3 vault chances
covert kestrel
cuz we had that scroll trinket too
Oh tru
willow portal
Plus 3 vault chances
i counted the vault chances in that amount already
glass mortar
who wants to farm a delve trinket with only 2 chances each week on the hc versio...
They were adding a dinar system for delves as well iirc
covert kestrel
i counted the vault chances in that amount already
vapid sundial
covert kestrel
covert heart
Biggg changes coming today
indigo token
They were adding a dinar system for delves as well iirc
id rather sand my nutsack down into a fine paste than have a delve trinket be bis
glass mortar
Good suffer
gaunt phoenix
currently some delve trinket that gives 30,000 mastery is looking like aoe bis
lucid sandal
Hope it gets nerfed to shit
covert heart
30k??
Guess we will all group up and go into delves then
We can make like a delve raid day it would be perfect
vapid sundial
blizzard looking at the few people who said how much they like delves
ignoring everyone else
seems about right
glass mortar
Sorry you don't like art
fallen knot
ok guys so i need help right here: what do i NEED to do as a minmaxer degen before patch hits? also, i'll go on holiday from friday till next thursday, so i have today, tomorrow and thursday to do everything. I want to get into the patch with at least 3 characters ready. One is full bis, the other 2 are close
covert kestrel
Solo content for 1hr a week that has rewards: I sleep
Queue simulator in Dal for 3+ hrs a week: REAL SHIT
covert kestrel
ok guys so i need help right here: what do i NEED to do as a minmaxer degen befo...
Larias' guide is the degen guide to patch start if thats what you want
fallen knot
well i want patch end tho
frank finch
sub is going to start off so op if that trinket doesnt get nerfed
fallen knot
patch start is ok
covert kestrel
I don't think there's much you can do rn besides finish that gear?
fallen knot
i know about crafting wrists and socket them
willow portal
sub is going to start off so op if that trinket doesnt get nerfed
which trinket
frank finch
the op delve trinket chat has been talking about
fallen knot
maybe go full valorstones on my 4 alts and keep my main free for campaign valorstones
frank finch
maybe go full valorstones on my 4 alts and keep my main free for campaign valors...
thats what im doing
even if u only raid log until 11.2 start
send ur stuff to alts
fallen knot
no but like i'm missing 2 rings and 1 neck on my hunter, chest and 1 ring on my priest that will be my main, all these items are 658 cause fuck my life i guess, my dk is 682 and happy where he is, rogue is full 684 and shaman has been full bis for 2 months
frank finch
fallen knot
doing a 3/8m on hunter now hoping i get both ring and neck so that i only need 1 ring craft
the main problem is my future main priest that has only killed bandit as a relevant boss, and i have 1 dinar, so it's probably going to HoC, the hero chest is a really sad unlucky thing and ring will be crafted i guess
covert kestrel
Man I'm so happy I decided to just play one toon this tier 
fallen knot
i started playing alts out of boredom, went shaman > dk > rogue > hunter > priest cause guild will need a spriest for raid
covert kestrel
Yeah I usually do that, but with this tier coming out in peak summer I don't wanna be doing stuff for the sake of stuff yknow
Next winter patch tho, full alt army
fallen knot
ye well
2 of my characters are locked for guild cause of "splits", the rest are either go help method and get gold or just stand there and be cute
hybrid crown
I think the big thing pre patch is making sure your embellishment is no longer on cloak slot
Because you get the artifact cape pretty quickly
fallen knot
so plan is do this 3/8m, then do a couple of m+ on hunter, wait for tomorrow vault get HoC on priest and chest from vault, then get ring/neck from this raid and vault tomorrow on hunter and craft a ring
ok but hunter wants the crit embellishment, and the only viable spot rn is wrists, boots will be from raid, belt is 701
vivid vessel
new cool sword or
mighty pivot
looks like a 2h
brisk spear
new cool sword or
more a slim sword kinda guy
covert kestrel
I don't have any good matching stuff but Im addicted to that timewalking glaive sword, looks so sick + back sheath
mighty pivot
fatshaming swords 
covert kestrel
ptr hotfix, possibly just encounter/dungeon stuffs
Possibly putting frost and mm in a shallow grave!?!?
covert kestrel
stop simming i need it !
But my week 13 vault!!!
mighty pivot
no gigapremium raidbots? 
mighty pivot
they should add premium-er
sudden fulcrum
i changed my loot spec to outlaw on a whim and got a mythic axe in the vault
guess it's time to be a pirate
violet ferry
It's always good to be a pirate
covert kestrel
violet ferry
mighty pivot
it's a piece of cake to bake a pretty cake
latent oak
ptr hotfix, possibly just encounter/dungeon stuffs
has simc detected the change, or is that what u are expecting
mighty pivot
he sensed the humidity in the air
latent oak
sensed the change in the wind
vivid vessel
has simc detected the change, or is that what u are expecting
not at the time of his message but raidbot discord track hotfixes
and another one also does it i dont remember
latent oak
big!
vivid vessel
you see these type of things
lime lake
outlaw buffs holy
vivid vessel
It's nothing
Simc detected the changes already aswell
Might have items changes but
frank finch
how u know
vivid vessel
No spell stuffs
frank finch
ohh
vivid vessel
I know because I'm smart I smelled it
grim spear
frank finch
aka he got the info from solo
gaunt phoenix
they added a cooldown to some trinket that didnt have one
grim spear
i changed my loot spec to outlaw on a whim and got a mythic axe in the vault
love axe
gaunt phoenix
whatever this is
dont know where it drops even https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/item=240171/observers-soul-fetters
covert kestrel
dont know where it drops even https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/item=240171/observer...
archaeology is SO back
ashen void
white marten
Give outlaw axes😎
normal forge
stop simming i need it !
let me guess, more buffs to fdk, so zac is happier
white marten
Kinda miss when we had to manually press slice n dice
frank finch
gaunt phoenix
nah just random item thing
covert kestrel
Kinda miss when we had to manually press slice n dice
white marten
When was RtB added to Outlaw? Legion?
gaunt phoenix
when outlaw was created
frail veldt
Are people actually asking this, though?
what is this a screenshot from?
frail veldt
Kinda miss when we had to manually press slice n dice
can you elaborate lol
wintry solar
what is this a screenshot from?
frail veldt
ai slop sounds like
I dont understand why google ai generated result is so much worse than just asking the same question to gemini
is it just some very stripped down version or something
hybrid crown
They must have gotten out of a key with me in it
white marten
That was a joke. Nobody is asking why outlaw is so good 💀
covert kestrel
https://tenor.com/view/apple-dog-plankton-battle-duel-fight-gif-7688109332376548...
Reminds me of the mewo/Ryukage fights of yore
frail veldt
That was a joke. Nobody is asking why outlaw is so good 💀
im sure someone googled it at some point
wintry solar
Mewo fights are easy
frail veldt
lol
wintry solar
You just say literally anything and he'll have a rebuttal
frail veldt
You just say literally anything and he'll have a rebuttal
I have no rebuttal to this
wintry solar
Oh the irony
mighty pivot
frail veldt
whats RSI
sudden fulcrum
repetitive strain injury
mighty pivot
it's what you get after DN
frail veldt
deez nuts?
fervent garden
why Aug Evoker? Fun like Outlaw but easier to play?
quiet ore
stop simming i need it !
https://outlawmallet.com/ptr/dungeonslice/ dslice ptr results ready
vivid vessel
wtf
proper berry
if all ai is slop youre just using it wrong lol
most of the content produced by ai is slop
vivid vessel
i tought you said dslice was too costly for these type of things @quiet ore
frail veldt
What is + CS in these builds?
vivid vessel
What is + CS in these builds?
crackshot cuh
quiet ore
i tought you said dslice was too costly for these type of things <@1504903991299...
usually it is, but as a special servicce I've tasked my gaming machine, rather than the server I dedicated to it, for the PTR sims, so I thought I'd throw in a dslice
vivid vessel
were simming non crackshot builds?
ye
vivid vessel
usually it is, but as a special servicce I've tasked my gaming machine, rather t...
i see !
quiet ore
It's like 4x faster, so, y'know
frail veldt
HAHA
hybrid crown
vivid vessel
you forgot about pc
quiet ore
unfortunately you are missing 1 FTH
fortunately adding one new build, unless I also bump simc, only takes the time to run one build
vivid vessel
quiet ore
no
vivid vessel
accurate for what
frail veldt
it is not an accurate overall
it is accurate for selecting talents though
and gear/etc
vivid vessel
its good to sim gear against each other
talents also altoguh there are limitations already
quiet ore
dslice is good for gear compare as it's a blend of 1t and various cleaves
gaunt phoenix
it's good usually
warped mantle
its good to sim gear against each other
but won't bosses/trash generally have a diff ratio in a real key tho
meaning the stat value is diff
frail veldt
the ratio is similar
gaunt phoenix
the blade flurry damage tends to be similar to keys
frail veldt
but it wont have some things like routing/downtime/rp/
or if your tank is pulling mobs onto boss
or if a boss has aoe built in like in DFC
quiet ore
but won't bosses/trash generally have a diff ratio in a real key tho
A "real key" depends on how you run it - in what many call "a good m+ season", pulls are purely 8+ targets and 1t
frail veldt
so those variations obv arent covered by dslice
vital wave
does this sim is relevant ? I mean come on, it looks ass
warped mantle
A "real key" depends on how you run it - in what many call "a good m+ season", p...
yessir + trash on every boss p much
gaunt phoenix
also our stats are like set in stone
frail veldt
does this sim is relevant ? I mean come on, it looks ass
ive heard warlock is oversimming but otherwise accurate
gaunt phoenix
1 target vs 8 target doesnt change haste crit vers
warped mantle
also our stats are like set in stone
ye surprised that going full monkey into haste is higher dps
than doing that with vers
ig it's cause you won't reach breakpoints
w the vers
vivid vessel
does this sim is relevant ? I mean come on, it looks ass
i would say its not a good sign for outlaw to sim that low in st when its usually a top st simming spec and still isnt played
warped mantle
i would say its not a good sign for outlaw to sim that low in st when its usuall...
we top simming this ssn right?
or close to
ik we did s1
vivid vessel
ye if you start from the bottom
warped mantle
in S1 we were one of the highest sims on st iirc
glass mortar
Now we r just mid mid
frail veldt
i would say its not a good sign for outlaw to sim that low in st when its usuall...
I know this is gona start an argument but it feels like outlaw in general performs below their sim on logs compared to other specs
warped mantle
proper berry
you need to have friends as an outlaw rogue
vivid vessel
I know this is gona start an argument but it feels like outlaw in general perfor...
thats what i said no ?
frail veldt
Yeah I know
dim widget
I know this is gona start an argument but it feels like outlaw in general perfor...
makes sense, much harder to play than other speccs
frail veldt
but it just feels like something that guy would argue with me on
glass mortar
Last time outlaw was the top simming spec in the game it was broken and had to be nerfed
vivid vessel
ye but guy doesnt play outlaw so
glass mortar
I say, lying openly
glass mortar
Since this was s3 df and still nobody plays this spec
vivid vessel
for the whole tier
quiet ore
unfortunately you are missing 1 FTH
feel free to PR it back in to https://github.com/weswigham/outlawmallet/blob/main/outlaw-talent-builds.simc - I think it got purged in the great tww2 relabeling when I realized "80+ talent strings is a lot, let's kill the ones that haven't shown much promise and are just nerfed versions of other strings"
glass mortar
vivid vessel
so its a bit disingenuous if you ask me
dim widget
🧢
frail veldt
They just buffed us
glass mortar
Damn I'm glad I got ww ready for altraid
warped mantle
glass mortar
Looks like it's slappin
vivid vessel
elem was simming higher than outlaw and they got buffed by 20%
dim widget
they will buff again
ye the obr will get crazy logic optimization again just like in week 1 of ptr
vivid vessel
thats all im gonna say reallly
warped mantle
SP buff was crazy to me too
vivid vessel
if i say it tho
warped mantle
aren't they insane in raid rn?
glass mortar
It's because the fat 50% cd reduction and 40% cast time reduction kspree changes coming later zac
That's an ez 10% st buff
They gotta hold off for it
vivid vessel
i think a longer cd was fine
it let the crowded trickster loop be a little more relaxed
covert heart
Whatever buffs is coming our way will be funneled to boomkin instead.
vivid vessel
but doubling the cd
warped mantle
how much would making ks only st
vivid vessel
and doing nothing to adress it
vivid vessel
help our prio
barely
warped mantle
you reckon
vivid vessel
maybe you gain 5% prio
warped mantle
hmm
vivid vessel
truth is
warped mantle
why is it so shit tho
warped mantle
design direction makes 0 sense to me
vivid vessel
it hasnt been good for a little bit now
vital wave
if nothing changes, will you still prog as sub @vivid vessel ?
frail veldt
how much would making ks only st
well KS is like 18% of our ST damage rn I think
vivid vessel
if nothing changes, will you still prog as sub <@352916297262301194> ?
man i will prog as sub anyway
frail veldt
so in aoe if thats instead hitting randomly
we lose like 18% st damage in keys
and were already one of the lowest st specs
vivid vessel
well KS is like 18% of our ST damage rn I think
bit less
vital wave
man i will prog as sub anyway
so you will craft embelishs & open vault as sub then
vivid vessel
yep
frail veldt
sucks a lot tbh
vivid vessel
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
frail veldt
esp since they moved more of our overall dps into KS this coming season right?
compared to last
vivid vessel
11%
but ye
thats hwat i said mewo
and people told me it was irrelevant
i dont think its irrelevant
especially when outlaw prio keeps getting worse and worse
but yes
glass mortar
but like if a pack is 10 mobs youre losing 16.2%
Also not factoring in ur bf cleave is probably hitting it too
frail veldt
Also not factoring in ur bf cleave is probably hitting it too
oh true true
glass mortar
But it's still a big loss for no reason at all
frail veldt
so probably all things considered youre losing 7-8% damage in aoe on main target
glass mortar
Ya I was gunna quickmath it there
frail veldt
I didnt know KS was only 11% last time I checked it was close to 20
glass mortar
And in Mass it could easily be worse
frail veldt
yeaaaah
glass mortar
It's just dumb
frail veldt
its unfort for sure
vivid vessel
also i could understand if it was actual aoe
glass mortar
We added this thing for animation then made it not matter for the animation but kept the lack of prio in
vivid vessel
or if it hit behind you and shit for the animation
BUT IT DOESNT EVEN DO THAT
IT HIT IN FRONT OF YOU
frail veldt
LOL
vivid vessel
JUST RANDOM TARGET
glass mortar
It should just bf for 100% damage like old old ks
vivid vessel
ALO
frail veldt
thats kinda useful to know
vivid vessel
having to worry about double positioning
vital wave
their video game
yes
frail veldt
they do they just dont play every spec
glass mortar
Trying to min max it's positioning because it's possible is honestly more toxic then not having it at all
vivid vessel
ai ass changes no cap
glass mortar
Like
Imagine trying to position so entire pack but the prio mob is behind you
Before kspreeing
Xd
Idk is this fun gameplay
chilly atlas
they cut staff and now its just ion and ai bots
frail veldt
can you not aim it during the cast???
vivid vessel
bro said just turn like you have any idea where to turn to in a pack xdd
glass mortar
It's rough the targeting isn't that precise
frail veldt
it kinda feels like
glass mortar
Its like a frontal 180 and targets inside you count
frail veldt
wait if KS isnt a frontal what is it
vivid vessel
wait if KS isnt a frontal what is it
it tick on a random target in front of you
glass mortar
Ye
frail veldt
so they took out all the good parts lol
vivid vessel
that flurry
frail veldt
it tick on a random target in front of you
ah yeah but its still ac one right?
wonder how wide it is
I need to download ptr lol
upbeat tundra
so you can kinda aim it
wish i could aim it at myself
vivid vessel
to tyour target
upbeat tundra
irl
frail veldt
yeah it gets worse and worse the more I hear about it lol
glass mortar
I mean its just
glass mortar
Why would u design a new ability like this
I dont understand
What spec that does cleave off st hits ever is like "yes God please make my hardest hitting attack shoot targets randomly and cleave off them"
What is the reason
Who was smoking
vivid vessel
STILL if im being optimistic its better than what we have
from the worse spell in the game
to
the worse spell in the game
just slightly better
ye for sure
upbeat tundra
can we be real for a sec, like all they would have to do to make this chat stop dooming is aura buff the spec enough to make you top overall in every key
everyone would instantly stop crying
glass mortar
I mean if zac was topping overall with this law in st
vapid sundial
No not true
glass mortar
Then yea he'd prob be happy
glass mortar
He'd be absolutely curbstomping everyone in aoe
vapid sundial
people still whined
glass mortar
The prio damage of this spec has been hit so hard
upbeat tundra
if zac tops overall in keys and single target he posts zero doomer things in here i promise
vivid vessel
He'd be absolutely curbstomping everyone in aoe
i would just be s2 outlaw prolly
glass mortar
Ud do turbo damage if they buffed u enough to pump st
vivid vessel
if zac tops overall in keys and single target he posts zero doomer things in her...
ye you dont know me i feel like
cinder relic
Yeah zac will complain no matter the tuning
vivid vessel
Ud do turbo damage if they buffed u enough to pump st
i would do live damage
ye because i complain about gameplay things first
glass mortar
Which is turbo damage
vivid vessel
why would i stop complaining
glass mortar
Live is very good ye
vapid sundial
both are shit
glass mortar
Gameplay issues
mighty pivot
here we go boys
sudden fulcrum
if zac tops overall in keys and single target he posts zero doomer things in her...
you are one of the top doomers in here so maybe get some self awareness and stop contributing to the problem
violet ferry
I'll stop crying if they program our character to make pirate sounds while performing Killing Spree
quiet ore
can we be real for a sec, like all they would have to do to make this chat stop ...
personally, I'd prefer buffs to specific skills rather than aura buffs - punchier KS, punchier GSW, nonlinear dispatch CP scaling
vapid sundial
the top 1 wasbanned
warped mantle
where are the top hopers at
vapid sundial
so ur top 5 now
vivid vessel
Live is very good ye
ye, its played by 2 people tho, and itsnt even considered meta, and barely does dk damage with 15% raid buffs, its way more than i could ever ask for but lets not act as if it was the most op shit ever ye
warped mantle
💯
vapid sundial
sorry buddy
frank finch
punchier ambush
cinder relic
The reason you would stop complaining beacuse complaining every single tier all day every day makes the channel very miserable to be in
glass mortar
Sure I'm not saying it's op
upbeat tundra
personally, I'd prefer buffs to specific skills rather than aura buffs - punchie...
right but honestly at the end of the day everyone just wants to do top overall and if ks hit for a billion damage the channel would feel like it was worth doing etc etc
glass mortar
If it was any other class with this profile it might be op but its law
vapid sundial
hate ks so much
glass mortar
Kspree crashout is understandable tho
upbeat tundra
everyone can cope and say its because of design or whatever but if you make the ability do enough damage it ends up fine
vapid sundial
lol
glass mortar
The new spell sucks. And it's better then the original
quiet ore
right but honestly at the end of the day everyone just wants to do top overall a...
eh, we'd still complain if our optimal rotation was "spam SS, ignore all else"
upbeat tundra
eh, we'd still complain if our optimal rotation was "spam SS, ignore all else"
ok no need to be this hyperbolic
cedar zinc
Mapa geral
sudden fulcrum
right but honestly at the end of the day everyone just wants to do top overall a...
i think if you thought this through even a little bit you'd realize that accomplishments mean nothing if they are easily obtained. getting overall is fun because it's not easy in competitive situations. if pressing one button means you win, it wouldn't be fun or satisfying
vapid sundial
Even if KS did a lot of dmg I wouldnt like the spell.
cinder relic
Why do ppl keep saying they didn't iterate on it
vivid vessel
casue they didnt
cinder relic
But they did
glass mortar
The only iteration it got was the exact changes they talked about night 1 when realz was in here
vivid vessel
no they didnt
upbeat tundra
i think if you thought this through even a little bit you'd realize that accompl...
dont even know what level of strawman you're on at this point
vivid vessel
they dropped the spell, they said, guys we will up the cd and the damage probably
glass mortar
They doubled the cd then buffed it 10 times
vivid vessel
they upped the cd and the damage
glass mortar
That's not iteration
vivid vessel
litteraly the next day
warped mantle
there are too many arguments going on at once holy
glass mortar
That's doing what they already wanted to
cinder relic
🤨 w
sudden fulcrum
dont even know what level of strawman you're on at this point
i do not think you know what that means
cinder relic
Its important to use words that mean something
vivid vessel
its important to not lie
upbeat tundra
literally nobody said it would be fine if it was just ss
vapid sundial
do you just forget what you said earlier
or do you do it on purpose
you said we would complain if all we did was ss
and yeah we would
bc that would be ass
warped mantle
mighty pivot
the only change they made which realz didn't already announce on day 1 is making it shoot only in front of you instead of all around you. The rest was damage and cooldown tuning which was announced immediately almost when it hit ptr
glass mortar
Fine they did iterate on it by their own internal metrics they just ignored 99% of the feedback we gave on it (I'd argue 100%) even tho almost everyone in that thread were in agreement about several points of the spell
vapid sundial
xd
warped mantle
the only change they made which realz didn't already announce on day 1 is making...
they basically copied samira ult
fr
vapid sundial
retreats with tail between legs
glass mortar
Just why ask us for feedback at all if ur not even gunna really be testing different versions of the spell
vivid vessel
they basically copied samira ult
samira ult would be actual aoe and do actual 100% damage to every target and not be 10s cast and the animation would be better
vapid sundial
thats not true it has some reduced effects with crit and healing
iirc
but it does hit everything
warped mantle
samira ult would be actual aoe and do actual 100% damage to every target and not...
that'd be pretty cool
if it was a big button like that
vapid sundial
No it wouldnt
warped mantle
why
frail veldt
I do
cinder relic
Well it kinda is rn
frail veldt
honestly
vapid sundial
bc then your raid lead plans on it
frail veldt
I would love a cd
cinder relic
Between the raw damage and all the procs from trickster
vapid sundial
and puts it in
covert heart
It is a cd
cinder relic
KS is a huge button
frail veldt
bc then your raid lead plans on it
thats okay
vapid sundial
another reason its shit then
covert heart
At this point
frail veldt
if the CD doesnt feed our cdr
its okay to delay it
the problem is youre thinking of a CD that has an impact on cdr
like vanish
or kir
vapid sundial
No
frail veldt
but a CD that just does damage
vapid sundial
i am not
frail veldt
and nothing else
vapid sundial
stop putting words in my mouth
frail veldt
would not be that problematic to delay
frail veldt
I would love that
warped mantle
raid lead holding ADR for fyrakk shield
frail veldt
frail veldt
you did it first
warped mantle
frail veldt
btw
your whole opening statement was putting words in everyones mouth rofl
so its funny for you to get insta tilted by it
upbeat tundra
your whole opening statement was putting words in everyones mouth rofl
exactly
frail veldt
so
cinder relic
frail veldt
it would be cool
vivid vessel
i feel weird not being part of this argument
almost like i was reformed
watching myself
warped mantle
zac ur a hoper now
vivid vessel
crazy
warped mantle
not a doomer
ur hope post in disc got us the 10% bufrf
it was literally the day after
covert heart
I think if they just made it massive aoe and called it aday we prob be happier
upbeat tundra
almost like i was reformed
ur getting old and the zoomers are chatting too fast to keep up
frail veldt
ur getting old and the zoomers are chatting too fast to keep up
Ive got a decade on zac
warped mantle
imagine uncapping KS
vapid sundial
You do realize that isnt me putting words in your mouth?
I never said you said something.
I said you think you want it, but you wont.
It changes the loop for outlaw , it makes you hold, it would also fuck up fazed , would it not?
covert heart
Make it an actual aoe cooldown bam
vapid sundial
Once again.
upbeat tundra
You do realize that isnt me putting words in your mouth?
I never said you said s...
ur spamming nonsense just gg go next
vapid sundial
The reason arguing with you is annoying as fuck
warped mantle
You do realize that isnt me putting words in your mouth?
I never said you said s...
i didnt even say u put words in my mouth cuh
cinder relic
frail veldt
You do realize that isnt me putting words in your mouth?
I never said you said s...
and all I said was that youre thinking of cds that impact cdr
warped mantle
frail veldt
didnt say what you were saying
vapid sundial
and all I said was that youre thinking of cds that impact cdr
But im not?
frail veldt
😉
vapid sundial
and i never thought of that?
frail veldt
so we both arent
vapid sundial
It fucks up faze for 1.
For 2 I don't want to become a cd class where I need to hold .
Outlaw has been a send send send
forever
frail veldt
but regardless of arguing about "putting in words in other peoples mouths" I disagree with how "bad" it would feel to delay a cd on outlaw if it doesnt interact with the rest of our kit and just does damage
cinder relic
Some of u need a better hobby than arguing with random ppl about inconsequential shit in a class discord
warped mantle
i liked ks
frail veldt
It fucks up faze for 1.
For 2 I don't want to become a cd class where I need to...
I think thats slipperly slop fallacy logic
frail veldt
im not saying we should become a cd class
Im saying one long cd that does big damage but doesnt interact with our cdr or resource system would be nice to have
vapid sundial
does it not interact with our kit
did they change trickster
and make it so KS no longer is the proc tool?
upbeat tundra
all im saying is that if everyone in here was topping overall, we wouldn't be having this argument because everyone would be in keys and raid blasting getting invited to everything
frail veldt
were theorizing a new ability
so in this hypothetical no
it does not
thast litearlly what I said haha
warped mantle
all im saying is that if everyone in here was topping overall, we wouldn't be ha...
we top overall rn
glass mortar
Well if he's saying a cd that doesn't impact cdr or the loop kspree doesn't fit that
warped mantle
and we dont get inved
glass mortar
So probably not talking about kspree
vapid sundial
they will monkey paw us for the 3rd time.
upbeat tundra
we top overall rn
yea as long as u get the correct 4 classes to buff you
warped mantle
yea as long as u get the correct 4 classes to buff you
na we aren't that far behind outside phys right
frail veldt
I mean Kspree is in a state of change right now
glass mortar
Is it
glass mortar
Seems like a state of we knew exactly what we wanted night 1 and we r gunna force u to use it to me
vapid sundial
glass mortar
But don't let me distract I'm mostly joking
warped mantle
But don't let me distract I'm mostly joking
dont distract ppl from arguments bro
frail veldt
Seems like a state of we knew exactly what we wanted night 1 and we r gunna forc...
I mean I 100% agree they dropped the ball on the KS rework
frail veldt
but I just disagree with the sentiment that outlaw will shatter its identity and would be a pain to play if we just had one long cd that did big damage
I think it would actually solve a lot of peoples complaints with the spec
wintry solar
I'd never fall so far from ouaw that I'd play druid
frail veldt
and would allow us to fit into the meta better
upbeat tundra
im a healer main now
covert kestrel
Resto pretty fun high apm doe
covert heart
im a healer main now
Don't worry you will hate healing soon they all do
upbeat tundra
yea its fun
sudden fulcrum
resto is a really fun healer
wintry solar
L class
vapid sundial
So just play enhance
if thats what you want
Enhance is basically outlaw with a cd
XD
glass mortar
I play ww
pliant wind
I had much more fun as a monk healer
warped mantle
enh is fun in bl
frail veldt
ive considered ww
pliant wind
than dud
glass mortar
It's fun and it's target scaling is arguably worse then lawa
frail veldt
but its so buggy and I HATE how roll is
rolls behavior makes me want to not play that spec in its entirety
glass mortar
They can air dash now
frail veldt
horribly designed ability
yeah the air dash is cool
slicing winds is...interesting
glass mortar
And im just a total simp for any class that can abuse air movement like that
It's always fun
Feels like ur in a different video game ngl
Parkouring around on dh and evoker is so much fun
upbeat tundra
every class in the game right now is fun to play if you're top overall
frail veldt
yeah evoker/dh do have a huge qol having glide
upbeat tundra
except bm
frail veldt
every class in the game right now is fun to play if you're top overall
unholy
was so boring
upbeat tundra
dev is really fun
warped mantle
u dont like pressing epidemic?
upbeat tundra
i thought building juiced up blood beasts was very fun
vapid sundial
I wouldnt play sin
upbeat tundra
it got less fun after they nerfed it
vapid sundial
i wouldnt play sub
upbeat tundra
aka less overall
frail veldt
oh wow my blood beast randomly procced and suddenly I gained 5 million overall
compelling
upbeat tundra
yea thats fun as fuck
vapid sundial
i wouldnt play so many classes in the game just bc they are #1
frail veldt
I havent kept up with its changes
glass mortar
Instead of pure random
frail veldt
yeah that sounds better
upbeat tundra
you proc a blood beast first global first pull of cinderbrew, holy fuck u know ur about to BLAST and rip threat off the tank and die
pure dopamine
sudden fulcrum
hell yeah i love releasing my spirit
glass mortar
To some people just big number is fun sure
frail veldt
yeah im sure some people like rng performance
cinder relic
Blood beasts topping overall = Fun casino spec to chill on
Blood beasts doing no damage = dogshit terrible design the devs are horrible at their Job this was an AI tier set that just is random and no skill dogshit
glass mortar
Usually not outlaw players since we r the spec of no big hits
frail veldt
I mean outlaw sadly has rng performance but only in the "feelsbad" way haha
upbeat tundra
Blood beasts topping overall = Fun casino spec to chill on
Blood beasts doing no...
EXACTLY
frail veldt
Blood beasts topping overall = Fun casino spec to chill on
Blood beasts doing no...
hahahahaha
glass mortar
To some people
upbeat tundra
listen i know u guys dont want to hear it, but there IS a number that they could buff ks by where it would be fun to hit
cinder relic
we need to reinvent words or some shit bro
glass mortar
Many id argue
frail veldt
yikes
gaunt phoenix
tuning largely overtakes perception
cinder relic
Cuz some of u read words and just invent different sentances
vapid sundial
This is what i said mewo does earlier btw
upbeat tundra
tuning largely overtakes perception
they dont want to hear it
vapid sundial
all the time
frail veldt
why not just buff it by 10000%
would have fixed the whole spec if we were just on top of the meters
upbeat tundra
they want to complain about design when what they actually mean is "make me top overall"
glass mortar
A shitty designed ability can be fun to many if it does a borzillion damage
upbeat tundra
"let me get invited to play"
cinder relic
Because KS was one of the rare instances of fundamental design issues
frail veldt
nah
dim parrot
Where is zeross at btw
frail veldt
didnt do enough damage
upbeat tundra
ok current ks is literally egregious
wintry solar
Where is zeross at btw
Muted
glass mortar
they dont want to hear it
Or it's just not relevant to the people u r chatting with rn
upbeat tundra
i will agree
dim parrot
LOL
frail veldt
lol
vapid sundial
they want to complain about design when what they actually mean is "make me top ...
No, DK was top / is? And they still whine bc they lose things while still being insanely good
dim parrot
Too much yap
vapid sundial
for an entire expansion
frail veldt
I think even in S3 when outlaw was S tier people complained about the downtime issue
upbeat tundra
No, DK was top / is? And they still whine bc they lose things while still being ...
never heard unholy players complain about design when blood beats was a nuclear bomb
cinder relic
The amount of balance druid players I heard say "Oh my god the spec feels so bad to play on ST now" after they aura nerfed the spec is just funny
upbeat tundra
not once
frail veldt
The amount of balance druid players I heard say "Oh my god the spec feels so bad...
yeah but youre agreeing with them right?
cinder relic
I think even in S3 when outlaw was S tier people complained about the downtime i...
Thats because this discord has a mental illness
upper surge
@keen belfry @wintry solar @covert kestrel You want to do m0s on the 5th and +8 delves because they will generate a s3 vault on the 12th. There's also a world boss to kill
cinder relic
And literally no matter what u guys complain
frail veldt
cuz specs feel good/bad based on performance not actual gameplay
or am I misunderstanding
frail veldt
I 100% agree with that
wintry solar
<@177964030474977281> <@530563212093947914> <@259719852510543873> You want to do...
0s are open on off season
vapid sundial
and have fun gameplay
cinder relic
Its both, but details warps peoples perception a lot
upbeat tundra
if you sent everything to the shadow realm when you hit ks and did massive damage everyone would be saying how poggers ks is
vapid sundial
if you lean too much to one side its awful
glass mortar
It's both but numbers have a bigger impact then design to many
dim parrot
I love outlaw gameplay
dim parrot
Just change ks and tune it
frail veldt
Its both, but details warps peoples perception a lot
yeah im just saying the warping is a bad perspective on its own
cinder relic
Yeah if KS was doing 25% rather than 11% people would say "WOW THIS IS SO AMAZING WHAT A GREAT REWORK" rather than having a mental boom about "Losing prio damage"
sudden fulcrum
just like programming languages, there are only two kinds of specs - ones that no one plays and ones that people complain about
frail veldt
thats why I was disagreeing with the person who said "all strong specs are fun"
upbeat tundra
Yeah if KS was doing 25% rather than 11% people would say "WOW THIS IS SO AMAZIN...
yep
upper surge
0s are open on off season
This is one of those rogue things where you focus on calling a week that gives s3 loot an off season isnt it
this is why your spec sucks smh
frail veldt
cuz all strong specs arent just inherently fun to play but thtats not true for all people
glass mortar
Some people maybe. And me and mewo would point And laugh at those people
upbeat tundra
thats why I was disagreeing with the person who said "all strong specs are fun"
ive played a lot of specs this patch and there wasnt one that i thought was fundamentally dogshit