Well ya know how it goes when two very strong opinions clash
#outlaw
covert kestrel
acro removal=good is certainly one of the stances of all time
lime lake
i miss acro
tender wedge
I like the part where they gave it to everyone then didn’t remove it for pallies
lime lake
we can adapt but we can never forget
lime lake
I like the part where they gave it to everyone then didn’t remove it for pallies
funnily enough ret did end up not using that talent in m+ afterwards
daring oxide
Honestly I don’t remember 100%
lime lake
still bullshit they effectively still have it though
daring oxide
But it was a case of differing opinions on the subject
lime lake
although i miss it most for kicks
tender wedge
Kicks is by far the most egregious part
lime lake
im gonna be honest every kick should be ranged
daring oxide
They should call it
Throat shot
Which makes sense
A shot to the throat to stop casting
Make me a dev
tender wedge
Risky google
lime lake
outlaw uses nerf guns
daring oxide
I’m pretty sure koffing purged the argument @keen belfry
lime lake
it exists still in the hearts and minds of those who remember
daring oxide
I remember seeing everything vanish slowly
covert kestrel
I’m pretty sure koffing purged the argument <@177964030474977281>
https://tenor.com/view/obi-wan-star-wars-impossible-perhaps-the-archives-are-incomplete-gif-14446354
daring oxide
As I was getting my popcorn
keen belfry
latent oak
top text
daring oxide
But honestly
daring oxide
I’m 100% expecting Zac to explode when 12.0 hits PTR
When they release the outlaw/rogue rework
And they delete crackshot 🥲
latent oak
na zac loses it when pc gets a raid nerf and no st compensation buffs
daring oxide
I mean 12.0 OPPs
jovial dome
He would never <_<
lime lake
week 1 gonna go hard
daring oxide
Midnight
daring oxide
na zac loses it when pc gets a raid nerf and no st compensation buffs
You think pc will get a nerf?
latent oak
no clue
latent oak
arent some of the mid bosses like sustained low target stacked cleave
latent oak
idk i was just yapping
daring oxide
Yapping is good
red zinc
keen belfry
And they delete crackshot 🥲
What if outlaw gets major major change cuz no one plays it? I think a major major change would require cs gone
daring oxide
What if outlaw gets major major change cuz no one plays it? I think a major majo...
I think this is very likely going to happen
covert kestrel
When they release the outlaw/rogue rework
"We found the decision making and high apm of outlaw to be too daunting for most players, so we've toned down their skills with more empowered and channeled spells that will hit harder but take some time to setup. Roll the bones is also going to be sunsetted, instead its a maintenance buff you have to keep up every 15 seconds. We will be reworking outlaw to be centered around ghostly strike, a fan favorite ability that will be more key than ever before"
daring oxide
"We found the decision making and high apm of outlaw to be too daunting for most...
This is basically what Ion said in his interview recently regarding the addon war thing
You need weak auras to play outlaw as it is now
And they acknowledge that
And they used outlaw as their example
keen belfry
I couldn’t imagine us losing crackshot
daring oxide
So I’m really expecting huge changes next expansion
I just hope outlaw retains its identity
daring oxide
High mobility, fast pace spec
daring oxide
How bout 11.2.5
That would be even better
keen belfry
I do think RTB kinda sucks
covert kestrel
High mobility, fast pace spec
best we can do is evoker light
keen belfry
Idk why
daring oxide
But I feel like it’d be a new expansion level class rework kinda thing
daring oxide
I do think RTB kinda sucks
Ya RTB honestly is one of the biggest reasons people don’t like this spec
I don’t mind RTB, I’m used to it after playing it so much as a degen
keen belfry
I think find a way to incorporate broadside into the spec
daring oxide
But it’s not accessible for most players or new players
torpid fiber
I actively like RTB 😔
daring oxide
I actively like RTB 😔
I like silence the paradigm too
torpid fiber
ty
daring oxide
Still haven’t e2 her yet
keen belfry
I just think if I were to rework law the first thing I’d do is RTB stuff
jovial dome
I like RTB. It's actually one of the reasons I started playing Outlaw again
torpid fiber
Fellow arknights enjoyer?
yeah, I got into it last year and it captured me because wow they made a gacha game with interesting gameplay and an absurd number of words to read
tender wedge
Seeing you get your 5 or 6 buff is definitely one of those feelgood moments that most specs get
daring oxide
I just think if I were to rework law the first thing I’d do is RTB stuff
I love rtb but I wouldn’t mind it being changed to something else but I don’t know what that would be
keen belfry
I think change how RTB works and then I think remove KIR with that, fix GSW to be giga like letting it stack up to like 50 or so so it works with CS, make h
gaunt phoenix
we love gacha
cinder relic
I never said its good
daring oxide
I never said its good
Yeah I thought so, I corrected myself a bit after
I think you were mad at Zac for being negative or something
I can’t remember 100%
Sorry my memory is rusty
quiet ore
ST done: https://outlawmallet.com/ptr/
I'll run higher target counts and a dslice (just cause) over the next few days.
torpid fiber
we love gacha
I think arknights does a fun thing where the gacha aspect actually makes the new player experience better not worse
gacha bad though obviously, I'm lucky i don't have addictive tendencies
daring oxide
we love gacha
Arknights is peak gacha
gaunt phoenix
ST done: https://outlawmallet.com/ptr/
I'll run higher target counts and a dslic...
aww yeah
daring oxide
I think arknights gacha is generous
daring oxide
ST done: https://outlawmallet.com/ptr/
I'll run higher target counts and a dslic...
Amazing stuff
keen belfry
Why are sims differences so so wide rn
quiet ore
cant even reach 5m
well, it might reach 5m with optimized trinkets
keen belfry
For all specs
quiet ore
it's close
keen belfry
Are sims usually this wide this close to ptr
torpid fiber
I think arknights gacha is generous
I hate the limited system but other than that yeah it rocks
gaunt phoenix
Are sims usually this wide this close to ptr
stop thinking about it
outlaw sim good
rest suck !
frank finch
right
keen belfry
stop thinking about it
Y king
keen belfry
Idc about tuning we will be fine by the time we are actually geared and doing actual content
gaunt phoenix
nah
keen belfry
I just want to be good spec when we are doing hard keys
That won’t be real first weeks
lime lake
best spec after turbo boost
keen belfry
Mhm
gaunt phoenix
ST done: https://outlawmallet.com/ptr/
I'll run higher target counts and a dslic...
this mostly checks out with what i was seeing. changing haste does make HO a little closer on ST than I had previously seen
cinder relic
I think you were mad at Zac for being negative or something
Zac lost his role because literally every single time there was a bluepost he had a meltdown
It had nothing to do with arguing with me or anybody else
torpid fiber
Still haven’t e2 her yet
(Also btw don't bother unless you really like her. I did but she never comes up I keep trying to force her but she has too many nonsensical restrictions for no reason.)
cinder relic
Whether there was, or wasn't a rogue change, it would be hell in this channel
daring oxide
Zac lost his role because literally every single time there was a bluepost he ha...
Ah ok makes sense
cinder relic
And because his role, that proliferates to everybody else in the channel
daring oxide
Ya I remember the explosion
Just remember he lost his green name after a huge argument with you
fossil lintel
I was there that fateful day, when green Zac died for our dooming
daring oxide
Ye but sometimes it’s too much
quiet ore
this mostly checks out with what i was seeing. changing haste does make HO a lit...
kir+cs+ks fatebound being top ST doesn't surprise me, per sey, but it does annoy me a lil
gaunt phoenix
yeh
daring oxide
Was lost in rage
fossil lintel
Wait, KS fatebound? Nope, nope, nope
gaunt phoenix
new KS is fine 
daring oxide
(Also btw don't bother unless you really like her. I did but she never comes up ...
The new operator coming out in a few months powercreeps her
daring oxide
Haruka I think she’s called
lime lake
if they dont do anything to force you not to cancel it then it seems fine
not ideal but fine
quiet ore
I'm all for more +resource buttons
fossil lintel
It's still 2.5 to 3 GCD worth of time even cancelling, no?
gaunt phoenix
it's 2-2.4s
umbral pelican
@daring oxide 
fossil lintel
Yeah you get 1 CP per half GCD after haste, outside of lust
torpid fiber
The new operator coming out in a few months powercreeps her
Yeah but she's welfare so that was to be expected, there's not really many welfare units that aren't powercrept by a different unit.
gaunt phoenix
killing spree is really good, up until you cap cps
then it is slightly better to cancel it early
fossil lintel
Even cancelling it feels too long, I never even not cancelled while testing on ptr
daring oxide
<@105752825878843392> <:AngryArthur:858754854095421500>
😘
quiet ore
like legit
Since it can generate overcap resources, I wish we had some kind of 0gcd spender for it, or, like, a bank, or some way to not waste a 10cp ks's resources; but what can you do
torpid fiber
Ogcd finisher would be hype but also I think it would cause the spec to be actually so hard to play well for the average player that we'd instantly get full reworked
fossil lintel
At least let fatebound be pure
daring oxide
Since it can generate overcap resources, I wish we had some kind of 0gcd spender...
Shadowcraft for outlaw?
Or what was the talent called before
Where we stored it
Anticipation?
Trying to remember the name
I think it was anticipation
buoyant cosmos
10 combo points op
daring oxide
Since it can generate overcap resources, I wish we had some kind of 0gcd spender...
Then yeah anticipation would resolve this
toxic star
lime lake
Cd timings holy
torpid fiber
daring oxide
I actually had a cd timings plan with kaze WAs for tindral lol
For outlaw
To help me stop myself wasting adr
🥲
hybrid crown
Man that shit sucked
nova creek
for the trinket, is there like a safe spot to spend stacks on?
gaunt phoenix
outlaw can just send it whenever, but hold for amp bosses
hybrid crown
They should let us stealth when we get on someone else's mount
stuck patrol
So if I don't have 18% haste, should I start recrafting stuff for new patch bc KIR better?
gaunt phoenix
We dont do anything to boost trinkets except bte buffs
nova creek
gotcha so like ml phase you hold but send on every one?
hybrid crown
That would be so nice
gaunt phoenix
So if I don't have 18% haste, should I start recrafting stuff for new patch bc K...
nah you will have your current tier for a while
only when you lose tier will HO get the shitter
by then you will have 18 new items
and have to dick around with crafts anyway
stuck patrol
What if I have ungodly good luck though
And get 4pc day one
Like every season
😎
gaunt phoenix
i'd still wait until then
stuck patrol
Aight bet
digital linden
are thousand cuts procs fully rng and impossible to anticipate?
gaunt phoenix
yeah they are rppm like trinkets and stuff. mostly not going to be able to predict it
digital linden
when going about my rotation, should bte be on cd before i go into vanish in kir trickster?
gaunt phoenix
yeah, outside of stealth, you just send bte. but Ks and Coup have priority
digital linden
even with a vanish charge available?
gaunt phoenix
oh i misread that
Trickster doesn't worry about bte being on cooldown before vanish
sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt
doesnt seem to matter a whole bunch
buoyant cosmos
even with a vanish charge available?
I think the faq says it's okay to hold vanish for a few seconds if you aren't going to cap on charges and KS / coup is coming up soon.
digital linden
right i was just wondering about bte because when comparing my logs to others, i noticed some trickster kir logs seem to skip bte before sending vanish
not about ks or coup
fair oak
gaunt phoenix
perhaps that is not relevant
lime lake
where monke go
gaunt phoenix
Chances of tier?
lime lake
pretty bad yeah
vague cape
so what are you asking
lime lake
tier can be in delve vault slots though
wintry solar
I'm going back into seclusion
lime lake
if thats the question
wintry solar
Yeah. I didn't know if it was just delve gear
vague cape
so ur actual question was can delves give me additional chances at tier gear
vague cape
covert kestrel
where monke go
monke not relevant to outlaw
lime lake
impossible
wintry solar
Yall hear about the Midnight leak?
Supposedly, you can't turn your in-game brightness up above 1
covert kestrel
still shard
Served too quick. No choice. Just vibes and bite marks.
elfin zealot
after finally leveling as outlaw, i get it now, and im really diggin it.
gaunt phoenix
tender wedge
elfin zealot
i know there are changes in the next patch, what are the major ones coming? i know killing spree is turning more into a cone ability right?
tender wedge
KS “fix” is the main thing, pins have more info
covert heart
Its for boomkin not us though
digital linden
KS and tier set
and the rotational differences will be added to faq when exactly?
covert heart
12.0
gaunt phoenix
when I finish them 😨
covert heart
You cant rush perfection
digital linden
haha ofc
elfin zealot
KS “fix” is the main thing, pins have more info
mixed feelings on the change?
wintry solar
More or less
digital linden
what even are gonna be the rotational differences is it jsut a higher prio for coup and holding vanish for it?
gaunt phoenix
we go back to loaded dice which changes RTB stuff
hold vanish for coup (probably)
cancel ks
i think deft maneuvers will strictly be used at 1-2cps
elfin zealot
as a newbie, i just reroll when the weak aura tells me too lol
grim spear
so ho is dead again
covert kestrel
wintry solar
Gonna be hard to beat infinite rtb spam
weak moss
Guys when i have all cds up do i dubble vanish in my opener or just one ?
gaunt phoenix
you double vanish unless killing spree is back up soon
if killing spree cooldown is <20s or so then you try not to vanish
unless you absolutely have to vanish for AR
tight atlas
Trying to decide if I should come back to outlaw or stay sub for new patch. Neither seem too exciting at the moment.
digital linden
Trying to decide if I should come back to outlaw or stay sub for new patch. Neit...
why not both
elfin zealot
gonna try outlaw out in pvp, see how it goes.
wintry solar
gonna try outlaw out in pvp, see how it goes.
Plz dont
weak moss
you double vanish unless killing spree is back up soon
Ty mate
digital linden
i thought outlaw in pvp was really good for a while there
lime lake
it was good a while ago but it got nerfed quite a bit since then
wintry solar
No dam
elfin zealot
any hop of that changing in the patch?
wintry solar
It's good in the sense of how it's toolkit works. Not in the sense of its damage.
If you REALLY want to play outlaw in pvp
mighty pivot
It does no damage and will do even less damage with the KS change
what if you ask them nicely to stay put so that you face only one target?
wintry solar
what if you ask them nicely to stay put so that you face only one target?
Dang that's a baller idea ngl
covert kestrel
looking to mainly play BB
basketball?
gaunt phoenix
bareback
gaunt phoenix
wintry solar
and just to get 1800 and vicious saddles really.
That'll work. Just know outlaw is great with CTF maps but no one seems to know that so you'll get haters.
4 grapple and sprint goes hard on gulch
Only ctf maps. Others not so much
Kotmogu is good for outlaw
elfin zealot
kinda sucks outlaws been struggling, really the only spec im not bored with atm
wintry solar
It made me rage leave the server the other day
Because I got CC chained and lost adrenaline rush and had no vanish charges
elfin zealot
never been a fan of bleed type gameplay so assas out the window, and sub is just meh.
wintry solar
And I was like 4 shots in
Rogue is in a grey spot for pvp gameplay imo
You either love it or dont
gaunt phoenix
it seems i will have this buff until the end of time
elfin zealot
with pvp i know its a little different, but whats the goal pve wise at max?
gaunt phoenix
even character copy onto ptr retained it
wintry solar
What's it from? Looks familiar.
Oh nvm I'm dumb
Solo why do you hate me
Ninja I get
gaunt phoenix
u dumb dumb
wintry solar
God that's so true
mighty pivot
wintry solar
Couldn't have said it better myself
mighty pivot
Miaou miaous
wintry solar
with pvp i know its a little different, but whats the goal pve wise at max?
If outlaw was as fun in pvp as pve thered be world peace btw
elfin zealot
what do you guys think we will get next expansion, new specs, new class, or just a new race?
wintry solar
None
New talents
Maybe
I don't think we've ever had so few changes going into an expac outside of hero trees.
mighty pivot
we get arcane trickster rogue for realsies
torpid fiber
what do you guys think we will get next expansion, new specs, new class, or just...
New bugs
gaunt phoenix
New spec prolly
elfin zealot
i wouldnt mind seeing a ranged spec themed around throwing knives/shurikens or gunslinger lol
gaunt phoenix
entropy dh !
lime lake
wintry solar
If it's that stupid void dh I'm gonna lose it
gaunt phoenix
i bet you it's real
lime lake
i dont think we get new race
definitely not new class
maybe new spec, but i think its probably just new hero talents if anything
mighty pivot
ogre void dh 
lime lake
void themed hero talents mebbe
elfin zealot
undead druid baby
wintry solar
I've always got enough hate in my heart for new flavors of druid
lime lake
my favorite whenever i bring up new pally races is people saying they dont exist bc of lore
elfin zealot
honestly i just need blood elves to get every class and ill be happy
lime lake
as if its a coincidence that the only classes that every race cant play are the ones that would need new assets
wintry solar
I was just thinking about someone bringing lore up and responding "OH MY GOD I DONT CARE"
lime lake
definitely lore and not them not wanting to make new horsies and totems and shit
elfin zealot
pretty sure blizzard has already said that every class will eventually go to all races except maybe evoker and dh, just gonna take longer cause of the assets
lime lake
ye it'll happen eventually
although void elves at the very least should be allowed to be dh
wintry solar
Logically I agree
wintry solar
But I don't want alliance players having nice things so ultimately I disagree
elfin zealot
i dont think there is any reason lore wise every race couldnt become demon hunters
i have a feeling we will get it with the last titan if anything
latent oak
can u imagine a panda blade dancing
wintry solar
Blizz said no already
latent oak
would be so sick
lime lake
i could see it argued that with the burning legion defeated there isnt exactly a pressing reason for other races to blind themselves and eat a demon
void dh tho
lime lake
warlocks kinda just use fel magic, dh actually gobble down on demons
as far as i understand it anyway
grim spear
i have a feeling we will get it with the last titan if anything
Ive always wondered who the final titan will be
it cant be azeroth right?
lime lake
it could be
grim spear
so it must be sargeras
lime lake
my headcanon is its sargeras and illidan comes back with big daddy
and he slaps some void people
elfin zealot
i actually put out a story concept to justify having new demon hunters made using warlocks, but people hated it lol
gaunt phoenix
i hope they nuke this fucking planet and we take a draenei spaceship to wow 2
lime lake
real
grim spear
noooooooo
lime lake
xalatath turns into big void mommy and uses her feet to push the sword all the way into azeroth
destroying the planet and bringing us to wow 2
grim spear
Azeroth-chan is my waifu
gaunt phoenix
unfortunately, xalatath did not consider g'huun
who devoured dimensius and then the planet
the end
elfin zealot
if you had to pick 1 new spec for rogue, what would yall choose?
gaunt phoenix
outlaw becomes a support spec
mighty pivot
similar to lightsmith but you give everyone a gun
lime lake
bard
grim spear
bte turned into a starting pistol, cool
elfin zealot
idk, i may just not see them a lot, but i feel like evokers are one of the least played classes lol
wintry solar
I'm so down with outlaw being a support spec
grim spear
ready 1 2 3 bang!
gaunt phoenix
well they are
lime lake
well its the newest so yeah
wintry solar
It should've been the first
elfin zealot
true
gaunt phoenix
augvoker was ass water for a bit
elfin zealot
feel like the only time i see them is as healers in pvp
wintry solar
I love playing support in other games
gaunt phoenix
no one liked it or played it
mighty pivot
both heavily impact how many people play it
and scalies are way fewer than furries
wintry solar
But Aug sucks booty cheeks for multiple reasons
lone spear
aug in dungeons is fun, but aug in raid is annyoing
quaint mauve
84% adr
elfin zealot
the fact we didnt get the buff drakonids as a playable race still hurts
lone spear
grat
wintry solar
Sick
quaint mauve
it’s so over
wintry solar
That'll be low next season btw
quaint mauve
it’s low now bro
wintry solar
the fact we didnt get the buff drakonids as a playable race still hurts
One of the reasons I'm not playing that race
wintry solar
it’s low now bro
It's gonna be low low next season
quaint mauve
i’m rolling rdruid
elfin zealot
one race you guys would pick?
also, think they might sneak harronir in as an allied race somewhere?
gaunt phoenix
the fuck is that
wintry solar
I think undead should get an allied race equivalent like every other race has
lime lake
bro they forgot harronir even existed
wintry solar
Save for worgen
glass mortar
isnt that the primal night elf troll thingies
lime lake
no allied race for them
glass mortar
we met them in the story for like 5 minutes
gaunt phoenix
never heard that word in my life
glass mortar
u do some quests with the chick that can morph into a bat form
lime lake
its the furry trolls
glass mortar
in the goblin area also
elfin zealot
I think undead should get an allied race equivalent like every other race has
Posture setting.. Thats what i want for the Undead. and trolls, and worgen.
latent oak
preserve the curve
lime lake
undead allied race is just human but pale
latent oak
upright is wrong
covert kestrel
I really hope they incorporate the Mah race, they have such great models and would be a great addition to the game
wintry solar
The horde curve
latent oak
its called a power curve for a reason
elfin zealot
Nope, the curve looks dumb lol
wintry solar
Lil baby Dom got ganked in STV by an undead
I've done many a ganking with my undead
elfin zealot
Been horde for 18 years lol
mighty pivot
it's quilboar time
elfin zealot
i want Vrykuul but on the horde.
gaunt phoenix
in the new faq
since vers items are so limited
i kind of want to just list them all
by slot
like these are the list of possible necks
there's like 3 of them and crafted
craggy barn
love ya solo
lime lake
holy bis list
badge
wintry solar
I don't really go for bis I go for "close enough"
lime lake
gaunt phoenix
our gear is kind of solved
tier
artifact cloak
any weapons
crafted rings for embellishment
trinkets dont matter
artifact proc boots
lime lake
yeah not much room to experiment with lmao
wintry solar
Wrists are my least favorite piece of gear
Simply because I never get them when I need them the most and they're never mogged because gloves and chest cover them
lime lake
gotta remove gloves and mog some wrists
wintry solar
They're all MID
wintry solar
That's fine
lime lake
most of the time wrists are pointless though i agree
wintry solar
I have the watch and never use it
lime lake
i didnt even realize that one from df was a corsage bc nothing showed up ever
wintry solar
I'm pretty sure all my saved outfits have wrists hidden because they never show up
Too many good gloves and chests
wintry solar
I'm neutral
lime lake
what drives a man to neutrality
indigo token
wintry solar
For eel
Idk what I'm gonna do with my extra pvp currencies
Unironically my biggest concern
My copy pasta library is gone
It's so over
fair oak
I will pray for you in hopes of easing your sorrow
wintry solar
Thank you 🙏
covert kestrel
My copy pasta library is gone
Oh no how
covert kestrel
Hi, my name is ryukage. I an ex-outlaw player. I still suffer from outlaw addiction. I'm currently in withdrawals. But the spec was destroyed by blizzard and hasn't been fixed yet. Meanwhile as it's broken it still receives nerfs. It's comical. I cannot return. I cannot endure another tww season 1. I can't endure another 1000 declines and little to no game time, on top of low damage reward for high apm.
-Ryukage
Ex-Outlaw
I gotchu
wintry solar
Oh thank you so much
lime lake
Hi, my name is ryukage. I an ex-outlaw player. I still suffer from outlaw addiction. I'm currently in withdrawals. But the spec was destroyed by blizzard and hasn't been fixed yet. Meanwhile as it's broken it still receives nerfs. It's comical. I cannot return. I cannot endure another tww season 1. I can't endure another 1000 declines and little to no game time, on top of low damage reward for high apm.
-Ryukage
Ex-Outlaw
wintry solar
I'm gonna make a server for my pastas
covert kestrel
Hi, my name is fronteir. I an ex-outlaw yapper. I still suffer from outlaw yap addiction. I'm currently in withdrawals. But the channel was destroyed by non-yappers and hasn't been fixed yet. Meanwhile as it's broken it still receives fighting between zac and ross. It's comical. I cannot return. I cannot endure another quiet period. I can't endure another 1000 one off questions and little to no yap by the goon squad time, on top of low information reward for high spamming.
-Fronteir
Ex-Outlaw Yapper
Here's my boutique Ryukage
covert kestrel
I'm gonna make a server for my pastas
Personal servers are goated
covert kestrel
It's where I store everything, also super easy for sending links to myself on pc/mobile and such
torpid fiber
Personal servers are so useful
quaint mauve
people are so weird
so what i die 3 times on one pull
don’t type to me man ik im bad
sudden fulcrum
lime lake
wintry solar
so what i die 3 times on one pull
wintry solar
I'm going to bed good night everyone <a:blusherwave:1171939584402280509>
Nighty night
lime lake
wintry solar
It is loud aint it lol
upbeat tundra
It really is impossible to play the game on rogue if you’re pugging
sudden fulcrum
I don’t think that’s unique to rogue
Even if you are playing a meta spec there is always someone better
sudden fulcrum
Daaamn
swift otter
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
brisk lotus
Maybe a dumb question but do I use for M+: 681 crafted wep + cudgel, H knuckle + cudgel or 681 crafted wep + H knuckle?
fair oak
Crafted weapon and cudgel for trash, swap to capo on bosses
high girder
There is a macro for the weapon swap in pins if you scroll down to the cudgel one
frail veldt
jfc bro
elfin zealot
you guys think legion remix will have a speedier class hall questline?
brisk lotus
Crafted weapon and cudgel for trash, swap to capo on bosses
can you swap weapons that arent equiped in the dungeon once its going? or are you talking about raid trash
fair oak
you can swap weapons in keys generally yes
some weapons with cantrip effects are off limits for that
but between cudgel and capo you can
delicate seal
you can swap weapons in keys generally yes
Can swap the weapons that can swap except the ones you can't
fair oak
uhuh
delicate seal
some weapons with cantrip effects are off limits for that
But only some of them
Kinda funny
fair oak
yep
quaint scaffold
can anyone link their weapon swap macro
dawn talon
you guys think legion remix will have a speedier class hall questline?
i wouldn't be surprised if class hall progression is tied into some other form of progression and the questline is just for fun
vernal bridge
i hope this isn't a dumb question, but tracking my BtE damage is way lower than it sims at (like 10% less of my overall). should i just be literally spamming it during crackshot or try to using efficient combo builders if ace doesn't proc
cinder relic
Raidbots combines BTE and dispatch damage together
Via crackshot
Probably where the discrepancy is coming from
cinder relic
U see how theres like a dropdown
vernal bridge
ya
cinder relic
wintry solar
you guys think legion remix will have a speedier class hall questline?
Isn't it faster by default because leveling in general is faster?
I love talking about remix, its my favorite wow topic
Speculation makes Azeroth go round
random obsidian
Hey guys, maybe a dumb question, gearing my outlaw for s3, if you had access to only mythic ilvl dungeon trinkets, which combination would you pick? Seaforium and?
tender wedge
wax whistle probs
the bee sims nice but sucks to use
could make an argument for priory signet as it's okay for outlaw and bis for assass if you think there's a chance you'll play that
hasty warren
brisk lotus
you can swap weapons in keys generally yes
tyvm for your help on this!
fair oak
np happy keying
quiet ore
this mostly checks out with what i was seeing. changing haste does make HO a lit...
8t results just rolled in: https://outlawmallet.com/ptr/castingpatchwerk8/
Surprisingly big balance gaps at max target count from build to build
balmy topaz
8t results just rolled in: https://outlawmallet.com/ptr/castingpatchwerk8/
30% haste???? 
Also this is 2 FTH over PC
tender wedge
Surprisingly big balance gaps at max target count from build to build
Why surprising?
vivid vessel
30% haste???? <:HUH:1115674347865129042>
30% of your stat budget
keen belfry
if killing spree cooldown is <20s or so then you try not to vanish
Is this number going to be higher next season
quaint mauve
wat im seeing is fatebound isnt that bad in aoe
keen belfry
Yeah those numbers seem closer than I would’ve thought
vivid vessel
i mean its -11% for fatebound and thats not accounting for pc
balmy topaz
30% of your stat budget
Ahh ye it's stat budget mb
keen belfry
Have you still been playing PTR zac
vivid vessel
ye
pliant wind
rogue irl
desert tendon
That s zac irl btw
pliant wind
vivid vessel
How has it felt
dogwater st, dogwater prio, half the specs in the game have more prio than outlaw, overall you manage to hold your weight kinda but barely, worse than s2 oultaw, better than s1 outlaw
ks feels ok with canceling it especially as i have added sounds to it now so it feels like a real spell
trickster gameplay is all borked, you perma lose fazed and have to track it on plates to not waste coup, have to swap early before your target dies or you will lose it, perma waste cps for coup, perma waste fth for coup, perma waste cdr for coup
1 fth feeks like hell im tired of it, if you dont roll bs you will litteraly starve yourself while in adr and have dogwater crackshot windows, the variance feels insane to me
desert tendon
Are you writting à book zac?
Oh
First chapter came out already
You Know what s fun zac. They put all the efforts in reworking ks. You wont see à patchnote line for outlaw for the entier next season now
vivid vessel
they put 0 efforts
desert tendon
They gotta work on dh 3rd spec They promessed They ll Never do
vivid vessel
its not even bare minimum
desert tendon
vivid vessel
after waiting litteraly 10 years to rework that ability i would be ashamed to be a dev that worked on ks rework
You wait 10 years to rework an ability and once you finally do you still manage to propose something that is even bellow the lowest expectations of people
And then you do 0 iterations on the spellls
desert tendon
Looks like they still dont undesrtand the main issue of ks
Is that
It s à fucking channeling on outlaw rotation
tender wedge
No offense Zac but you’re really harshing my vibe bro 😦
tender wedge
lol I’m just playing around. What else you got
wintry solar
Looks like they still dont undesrtand the main issue of ks
I think they just don't care about how it interacts with the spec as a whole tbh
tender wedge
The people need chapter 2
royal crane
Outlaw dooming makes my morning better
wintry solar
Sounds like I didn't go far enough
royal crane
It feels like home
tender wedge
Like a comfy pair of slippers
wintry solar
Pvp channel put me in a bad mood and decided to bring it here
vivid vessel
lol I’m just playing around. What else you got
Fatebound has been left to rot (just like trickster tbf) since it was released, and the damage profile is so hilariously bad in 2025 it's not even real, half the specs in the game gain prio or actual funnel in AOE, this hero talent loses 8 to 20% with more targets
Twenty percents btw, idk if you guys realize how bad that is
If outlaw st is tuned around fateboudn it's literally 9/11
And trickster is by default 6%+ behind rn so it's very bad
desert tendon
We ve seen their priorities on hero talentsduring beta
Sorry but
Rogue is doomed
desert tendon
All 3 needs a full revamp
tender wedge
Is fatebound the worst received hero tree in the game?
vivid vessel
Is fatebound the worst received hero tree in the game?
idk all 3 rogue trees are contender
solar elm
I was undecided between outlaw & feral for physical comp next season. I guess its more wise to go for feral? 😄
royal crane
I still think outlaw in season 3 of DF was fucking sick
vivid vessel
i dont think a single one of them pass the bare minimum test
desert tendon
The main issues being bugs
pliant wind
fatebound or deathstalker idk
desert tendon
Tbf
desert tendon
Deathstalker is playable only as assa and it s not even fun
Fb is just dogshit passiv With rng noone wants to deal with
pliant wind
hero rogue talents
desert tendon
Trickster is a nest bug. Could be fun but doesnt work and is weird
At least you dont press feint on CD
tender wedge
i dont think a single one of them pass the bare minimum test
I don’t think I’ve ever seen you play not-rogue, is this reroll territory for you or just like…stick it out and be mad
royal crane
Hmm if outlaw aint looking fun I probably wont play rogue then, guess ill take a look around
vivid vessel
imma tell you one thing, fatebound damage profile is so bad whispyr basically doesnt even consider it as a real build, we should probably be doing the same thing
vivid vessel
I don’t think I’ve ever seen you play not-rogue, is this reroll territory for yo...
far from the worse its been lol
im fine
tender wedge
Yeah assass has the added bonus of the tier set for FB literally not working
vivid vessel
outlaw fun and it has had worse seasons
tender wedge
Aight, good to hear, can be hard to tell across text sometimes
vivid vessel
Maybe I appear too negative toward the spec because I think it's more important to talk about what isn't working rather than what is
tender wedge
Fb doesnt fit assa at all
This is another point entirely but yes
desert tendon
And ds is just plague dam
lime lake
its ok hero talents are being reworked in midnight and rogue talents are gonna bang
lime lake
trust
desert tendon
Féels like when they did rogue herotal
They where so lost on spec identity
They made 1 hero per spec
Instead od the intended 2 per specs
Its not even tuning. It s Core mecanic
tender wedge
I actually dropped rogue as main going into s1 because the hero talents were so uninspired and uninspiring
Found it so much easier to get hyped for other things
But then once the dust settled the gameplay won me back
desert tendon
I dropped the game
Like if we re talkibg about héros talents we have to talk about deathstalker sub
tender wedge
What’s that
tender wedge
No because I’ve literally never even hit a dummy with it
desert tendon
You genuinly do more damage without hero talent selected than with ds on
Sub ds aoe rotation
I beg for 2 things. Acro and echoing reprimand
tender wedge
Seems crazy that rogue has two specs with a hero talent that has sub 1% play rate still
I feel like every other spec in that position has had real changes made
desert tendon
Which is where they failed
Yes There is à méta There is tuning blablabla
But the point was making them versatile
dawn talon
i mean we still don't have functional stealth animations for over half the races in the game
do you think we're going to get design work
lime lake
they reworked dark ranger for hunter and infinitely more people played that hero talent than fb assa or ds sub
shouldve rolled a better class
wintry solar
That sounds familiar
dawn talon
No lucky coins for à full prog night
BT + GM on pull, no lucky coin, no opp procs
just sitting there wanting to end it all
dawn talon
the parses don't even piss me off it's just that my spec does not work when i don't roll bs for 75 seconds
desert tendon
Meanwhile devoker get random buffs
mighty pivot
that ptr tuning will come in clutch tonight 
dawn talon
like every other tier since the beginning of time
cinder relic
I think outlaw is gonna look nuts in raid, mainly cuz the cleave bosses
desert tendon
Like better than trickster sub / caustic ds prio?
balmy topaz
I think outlaw is gonna look nuts in raid, mainly cuz the cleave bosses
You don't think the ST will make up for it and bring it down?
cinder relic
Do you mean on wcl or like, actual spec evaluation
Lol
Cuz sub is gonna be the best spec
But outlaw will look good on wcl
tender wedge
Meanwhile devoker get random buffs
this was honestly such a monumental head scratcher
already one of the top over damage specs? lets buff their pure aoe
stone vault
Guys does the title actually end on the 5th cause u can still earn CE until the 12th i think
tender wedge
already a top ST performer? lets aura buff them too
vivid vessel
I think outlaw is gonna look nuts in raid, mainly cuz the cleave bosses
ye maybe we are lucky and catch a lil nerf that would be completly justified
tender wedge
Yeah sure, which is why they still won’t be meta
They just do nuclear damage to tiny mobs
Already
And got a huge buff to that damage!?!?
haughty wigeon
yep
tender wedge
Like someone found a memo from 2024 and was like oh shit
Forgot, maybe I can sneak it in now and no one will notice
vivid vessel
Yeah sure, which is why they still won’t be meta
bro
dev propaganda is idk
even this season they did good damage
i think there is just no one playing dev
devs players are prolly rerollers
vivid vessel
dev closely related to boomie
vivid vessel
who would invite a dev?
ok and who would invite a rogue
same shit
yet you have try hard rogues
stone vault
rogue is huge in phys comp?
vivid vessel
that play rogue anyway
stone vault
but like, dev is so far off the list its unreal
vivid vessel
rogue is huge in phys comp?
Ye rogue is huge after the try hard rogues found a way to play around it by playing a scuffed comp
stone vault
90% of the people dont know what it does
vivid vessel
Still does less damage than dk while having 15% raid buff btw
And you haven't seen next tier deva
Shit is crazy
stone vault
its good ?
vivid vessel
But it's the same this season idk, dev players are just non existent
And look
My theory is just
lime lake
also best dps in raid and only got buffed going into this season
vivid vessel
That dev players are rerollers
They go Boomie
Thats it
Q lot of classes are like that
Where they don't have try hard mains that will play them no matter what
stone vault
current season dev is like a scuffed boomy i'd say
it also doesnt have beam
and you'd need to have much more healer assistance than you do on boomy
to survive +20s or +21s
cunning jetty
I was asked to play dev this season for the raid, I was so surprised the damage they pull off, really underrated for not having more ppl playing. It's only missing tricks so they don die on pull ripping agro in 2 globals
stone vault
yeah aggro ripping also sucks ngl
lime lake
it doesnt have beam but lets not pretend its utility isnt bonkers
lime lake
opressing roar, zephyr, rescue shields, knockup and knockback
cunning jetty
Rescue is huge
lime lake
breath stun
like i really do think dev couldve replaced boomkin this tier
it mightve needed a bit more attention than boomkin (though dev is definitely not a squishy class anymore), but i dont think it would be enough to disqualify it
vivid vessel
current season dev is like a scuffed boomy i'd say
ok wtf is outlaw then
a hard capped dk that doess less damage unless you stack 5 raid buffs on top of each other, with 0 utility
hmge
willow portal
do you guys use cheap shot in dungeon/raid
haughty wigeon
new talent trees made a utility and defensive arms race so people think good utility means your fucking broken utility wise
stone vault
a hard capped dk that doess less damage unless you stack 5 raid buffs on top of ...
i dont know much about this comp but doesnt the phys comp play around that cap ? Like the pulls are smaller
i dont think a dk ever comes close to outlaw on 4-5 targets if thats how the comp plays
since both warr and rogue are capped so would make sense if they play around that
vivid vessel
i dont know much about this comp but doesnt the phys comp play around that cap ?...
ok so now
tell me how you are faster if you do more pulls
i sure hope outlaw does more damage on 5 target than dk otherwise it would trully be over
stone vault
i mean dont you play around your specs in that comp?
vivid vessel
yes
stone vault
like, dk/boomie/mage have both boomie and dk uncapped hence why the huge pulls obviously
vivid vessel
yes but doing mroe pulls, just smaller is never faster tho
stone vault
as i said, idk how exactly the physical comp plays
but what i can tell you is, outlaw 100% dusts dk off in smaller pulls
dk's strong points are either 2 targets or 7+ targets where epidemic becomes prio over death coil
2 targets because you're cleaving like a mad man with death coil
or you want the pull to be big enough to replace death coil with epidemic
anything in between, dk tends to fall off
hence why most people go frost in dungeons like workshop or theater
vivid vessel
but what i can tell you is, outlaw 100% dusts dk off in smaller pulls
ye i never said it didnt
but thats not good tho
cuase thats not how m+ works
you gain time by doing bigger pulls
and what i said is that dk is better than outlaw
which is 100% true
outalw barely scratch dk damage after stacking 15% raid buffs
dk plays without sham, wtihout warrrior, litteraly naked mf
haughty wigeon
i feel like this only matters for like such a small population
stone vault
depends on what you mean its better at since both specs play different pulls
vivid vessel
haughty wigeon
that is borderline very irrelevant to mention
vivid vessel
depends on what you mean its better at since both specs play different pulls
bro
i feel like you dont get how m+ works
where you gain time by pulling bigger
always
stone vault
ok i know that
haughty wigeon
like i understand it sucks cause outlaw needs full raidbuffs to be competative but at the same time, only the .01% will focus on that in a key level that the majorit yof the population will never see
desert tendon
You gain time by not playing rogue
vivid vessel
the fact our comp is forced to play smaller is just an handicapp we have to play around
desert tendon
vivid vessel
its nto a strenght lol
haughty wigeon
i do hope theres a outlaw meta soon instead of being a side meta
but at the same time, side meta comp isnt bad either
vivid vessel
how many physical comps have +21 resi right now to your knowledge?
one i think
haughty wigeon
the fact theres a actual offmeta doing the same level of keys is huge
stone vault
one i think
one other than yours?
desert tendon
like i understand it sucks cause outlaw needs full raidbuffs to be competative b...
Imo you can play whatever as long as the comps makes sens and you dont wanna be in the top 10 world team. But as the playerbase is watching and trying to copy streamers/ tgp / Rio leaderboard
vivid vessel
only other outlaw is wox
desert tendon
This mentality get lost way before the 0.1%
haughty wigeon
Imo you can play whatever as long as the comps makes sens and you dont wanna be ...
ya i know that but we also have to kinda recognize that the playerbase trying to copy streamers/tpg/rio leaderboard is kinda silly
i feel like after godcomp in df s2
there has been more focus on meta than ever before
bright lodge
I had a conversation about phys vs “meta” comp. What’s harder?
vivid vessel
Actually fenris is outlaw I haven't seen him yet
Imhe must be new from the new leaderboard
haughty wigeon
physical meta seems to work harder for the same results as normal meta
but again
both do simliar if not the same level of keys
desert tendon
That s why since df i stopped caring about lame m+
haughty wigeon
and its kinda irrelevant for the bigger population
i just want vdh to take a backseat for a expansion
stone vault
physical meta seems to work harder for the same results as normal meta
yeah that actually is a good way of saying it
haughty wigeon
cause i hoenst to god
desert tendon
I miss the time where you could just play your class the best and not sit in capital forever
haughty wigeon
cant stand another vdh meta
desert tendon
Back when damage only matters
haughty wigeon
i think community kinda buried themselves in that issue
stone vault
gives the game some extra flavor
haughty wigeon
but its nice that phys comp exists
ya its highkey kinda unheard off
desert tendon
Now you just need these silly aoe cc and raidbuff as Well as synergies.
haughty wigeon
first time this happen and its this wide spread
after df talent tree revamp
god i hate the df talent trees.
and i was their biggest supporter to
stone vault
phys comp players also tend to be better than meta players
haughty wigeon
but then blizzard didnt iliterate more on the leveling and rpg aspect o the game
stone vault
due to the smaller population
haughty wigeon
so it kinda goes to shit
now everyone has every aoe cc utility and basically immortal
but only the spec thast super duper immortal and have every utility under the sun is considered "meta"
its so fucking dump
they need to go back to talent rows and role back everything
or its going to be another 2 expansion of this shit
stone vault
nobody expected the phys comp to rise this season
so hopefully next season would have some surprises aswell
vivid vessel
ye
surprise is
every phys spec
is jsut worse this season
outside of brew
and mm
stone vault
and feral
haughty wigeon
mm is weird
vivid vessel
feral is worse in s3 than s2
stone vault
feral is worse in s3 than s2
how ? didnt it receive a 8% aura buff with no nerfs?
lime lake
its tier set is both garbage and bugged to hell
vivid vessel
so?
stone vault
ah
lime lake
while this seasons tier set was pretty good
haughty wigeon
@frank grove said feral so garbage next season, hes unboxing his rogue
vivid vessel
that doesnt mean shit
stone vault
dude imagine blizzard was so close to making the phys comp to be the meta with the monk 8% physical buff
until they reverted it lmao
haughty wigeon
the 8% buff shouldnt have happened ngl
not cause it would have shaken up the meta or w/e
but because it made every player lose 80% of their braincells and spawn fucking takes like
"since you reverted the 8% buff, you should buff all the melee specs that got nerfed by this"
stone vault
it would also spawn a shitload of complaints to make the rest of the buffs 8% like vdh magic buff
haughty wigeon
,like thats a actual reasonable take to have
azure vortex
Reverting the monk buff was a good decision imo
haughty wigeon
actual clown world
azure vortex
They would buff the underperforming specs anywayw would they?
haughty wigeon
people dont even know how brand or touch effect their specs anyways
like earlier this month
people thought ret double dipped both cause it had physical and holy damage atribute
or how some specs have absolutely degen damage atributes
stone vault
Lmao
haughty wigeon
like how havoc
azure vortex
Wow players dont know simple math
stone vault
bro isnt tired from work