outlaw

[blazing bloom]

I have 25% haste and I am not even running KiR.. This is stupid, right?

[covert heart]

Yea shouldn't matter because you go right into your window anyways right?

[gaunt phoenix]

It's probably a little too high

"stupid" is a harsh word

[covert heart]

Not harsh enough if you ask me

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm I wonder if outlaw should enforce channel_lag=0

If you cant do it then skill issue

[vivid vessel]

Only if you cancel it ?

Otherwise you will have natural delay solo

Whatever you do

[mighty pivot]

what do you mean here? You can cancel it anywhere between 2 ticks but it is more costly to cancel it right before the next tick

[vivid vessel]

Like if you wait the end of the channel it's just not possible to have 0 delay

[gaunt phoenix]

or maybe 300ms is too high

[hybrid crown]

You could run a stat weight sim to see how down bad your gear is for non haste stats

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[hybrid crown]

I'm pretty sure for KIR your haste will dip below even mastery if it's too high

[vivid vessel]

Ye true if you cancel late into the tick it's basically the same shit

@gaunt phoenix maybe just lower it right

[frail veldt]

well in reality with the channel check macrod into abilities you still get the delay of your MS right? @vivid vessel

[mighty pivot]

the only way to spell queue perfectly is if you fully channel but then you're taking a snack break of course none of this will matter after tonight's 20% KS buff

[frail veldt]

so frequency of button spamming + average latency prob just set it to 100ms?

[vivid vessel]

Ye you do, just less than if you were trying to react to the cast end I guess

[frail veldt]

well in theory reacting to the cast end is potentially 0

if you dont have channel checks in your buttons

[vivid vessel]

Ok well that's no't possible tho

[frail veldt]

yeah but if you have high ms

you might be better off not doing channel check

and just trying to time it

like you can time it to be under 150ms

[vivid vessel]

What would it change

The input is sent at the same time anyway

[frail veldt]

wdym

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm sometimes it's more like 200ms

[frail veldt]

the macro check gets impacted by the delay of your ms(lets assume 150ms latency)

but if you button press 149ms before the channel ends

youd only get 1ms delay

[vivid vessel]

It's like the rng reaction time solo probably, where it's a bit random between 0 and 300

[vivid vessel]

Why

[gaunt phoenix]

ahh

[vivid vessel]

That would be client sided

[frail veldt]

is it?

[gaunt phoenix]

ye that's something simc would do

[frail veldt]

client side but then it has to get to the server

so client side says "channel stopped"

[vivid vessel]

I don't see why it wouldn't

[frail veldt]

then the button gets sent

then you wait 150ms

then button presses on response from server

[vivid vessel]

No I doubt that works that way

[frail veldt]

I think it does

[vivid vessel]

Why would the check be server side

That just add delay for nothing

[frail veldt]

like if you press your button during the channel I dont think it interrupts immediately

[vivid vessel]

The client is aware of the cast

[frail veldt]

I think it interrupts only once it gets to the server

thats how it works on other specs iirc

the interrupt isnt client side

[vivid vessel]

No, it interrupt it immediately but you see it interrupt with the delay, but the input is sent at the same time

[frail veldt]

its server side once the new button gets received

you sure?

[vivid vessel]

Ye that's how it should work

Otherwise it's stupid

It's a check that doesn need to be server side

So it shouldn't be server side

Your client knows when the cast end

[frail veldt]

I think the interrupt is upon a successful cast

[vivid vessel]

So it tells you when your press is valid

[frail veldt]

of a new ability

which would be a server side response

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm i need to think about this

any thinkers

[frail veldt]

id need to do some testing

but my time playing spriest I def think that the button press happens only once server receives it

which is why not every cast after a spell channel is delayed

[gaunt phoenix]

DH's seem to override the eye beam channel lag

[frail veldt]

interesting

yeah so I think that implies theres a way to avoid the delay

[remote pecan]

great so now im going to have to have HR calculate when you can cancel KS based on your ping aswell as your haste?!?!?!

[frail veldt]

with in game mechanics

[frail veldt]

I mean other specs deal with this

[gaunt phoenix]

it still assumes a minimal delay

[frail veldt]

its not a big deal you just "time it"

[gaunt phoenix]

instead of literally 0

world_lag, which is 50ms? i think?

[frail veldt]

depends where you are

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah the setting in simc i mean

[frail veldt]

ah

50ms seems fair if anything on the low end

[gaunt phoenix]

i think i'm gonna set that

anything else is ping issued

[vivid vessel]

Naaah

Otherwise that would be the case for GCD aswell

[frail veldt]

it is lol

[vivid vessel]

And then your game would certainly not be as fluid

[frail veldt]

if you are pressing nothing currently

and you press a button while not on gcd

its delayed

which is what would happen while youre in a channel as well and not on gcd

[edgy jetty]

is there a link anywhere to the current sims spreadsheet heading into 11.2

[frail veldt]

its the same reason you can jump before the end of a mount cast

and still mount

cuz the server checks the interrupt later

casting interrupt is not client side

visually it is

but the spell will still complete

[vivid vessel]

You would litteraly have like a 300ms delay everytime you press a spell

If you have 150 ping

It would be unplayable

I refuse to believe that

[frail veldt]

well it would be 150

wdym

how else would they know what you press before you press it

if youre not on gcd

just standing still

[vivid vessel]

Not if you want an answer as well

[frail veldt]

and you press a button

im not sayhing round trip

Im saying one way trip

its a one way trip delay to when the interrupt is triggered on the server side

literally just test it out with a mount

[vivid vessel]

You check client side and server side, except client send the thing when it knows it's ready and server just check if it's valid or not, if it's not the client is desynced or cheating, otherwise it's accepted

[frail veldt]

you can jump before a moutn cast finishes

or even type /stopcasting before it finishes

and you will still mount

if you do it within your latency window

[vivid vessel]

You just said you wait for the response from the server when you press a spell for the first time tho

[frail veldt]

sorry I guess "response" is the wrong word

I mean server has to receive the button press

before it interrupts your cast

which since youre not on gcd

you can press your button before your cast ends

[vivid vessel]

No, your example was like

If you are doing nothing

[vivid vessel]

This

[frail veldt]

yes which is what youre doing during a channel, not on gcd and pressing nothing

[vivid vessel]

So in this case you are waiting for a response

[gaunt phoenix]

it's [nochannel] yeah?

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[frail veldt]

I mean theres no response needed back to you I guess cuz the spell data is handled on the server side

all youre sending is the inputs

[vivid vessel]

If you are waiting for a response you have to send then receive, which is a 2 way trip

[balmy topaz]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vivid vessel]

If you are just sending the input then there is no delay tho lol

[frail veldt]

?

[vivid vessel]

There is only a delay if the server has to send a confirmation

Which then there is twice your ping delay

[frail veldt]

it takes time for the input to get to the server

[vivid vessel]

Ye

And how do you think the client knows the server received the spell

If there is no response

[frail veldt]

so for example lets say server currently thinks youre channeling. And you press a button on the client side, when does the server see that button press

[vivid vessel]

Nah bro forget the chanel ye

We are on simpler bases now

I'm doing nothing

I walk up to dummy

[frail veldt]

you dont need to get a response for the button to go through

[vivid vessel]

I press sinister strike

[frail veldt]

you might not see it for full round trip

but the time from when you press to when it "happens" on the server is your latency

the time when you see it is your latency X 2

[vivid vessel]

Ye

That's what I. Said

Lol?

And you said no

[frail veldt]

yeah but my point was if I want to send a button press at the very end of my channel

and I just press it when I see my channel end on my cleint side

[vivid vessel]

no bro fuck your channel

[frail veldt]

it will be delayed by latency

[vivid vessel]

we are on simpler terms now

[frail veldt]

thats literally the issue at hand haha

[vivid vessel]

no

cause if the channel was like that

then everything would be like that

[frail veldt]

okay so when do you press your button if you want to have as little delay after the channel as possible

[vivid vessel]

why would your gcd be ddifferent

than a channel

[frail veldt]

everything is like that

your gcd isnt different

[vivid vessel]

ok so

if i walk up to a dummy

and i press ss

i wait 300 ms

with 150

to see a response?

[frail veldt]

yes but if you want to frame perfect your gcd, when do you press SS? 150ms before your gcd ends...

thast what im saying

not 300ms before

assuming no gcd buffer here

right?

[vivid vessel]

idk

[frail veldt]

LOL

bro

[vivid vessel]

i think it would be cooked to assume you wait twice your ping everytime

[frail veldt]

thats why we set our spell queue to MS + some buffer for button spam rate

[vivid vessel]

thats just bad

and wow is super reactive

[desert tendon]

Lol

[vivid vessel]

ok thats a legende tho

[frail veldt]

im just trying to say how long before the channel you need to press your button to minimize latency

[desert tendon]

Did u guys ever tried outlo 0ms?

[frail veldt]

and Im like 99% confident if you press it 149ms before the channel ends(with 150ms latency) you will achieve a 1ms delay on your cast after the channel

[frank finch]

explain

[desert tendon]

Its funny

[frail veldt]

cuz thats how gcds work as well

[vapid sundial]

[frail veldt]

animations are reactive

cuz animations and movement are all entirely client side

[mighty pivot]

I wonder if the extra tick after cancelling only happens on high ping. If it's consistent you'd want to cancel it and get the extra tick if possible

[vivid vessel]

wtf

i knew this was a thing

there is still time to rework ks a second time

[exotic gale]

lol, just make it channeling ability

like blizzard

in classic

[vivid vessel]

it is a channel

wdym

[gaunt phoenix]

Cursed

[upper hawk]

oh suddenly i need HIGH ping to play outlaw? make up your minds

[exotic gale]

im talking shit then.

[vivid vessel]

i wish outlaw stayed a normal spec

without channels

what are we doing

[exotic gale]

we're getting big cook rework

[mighty pivot]

empowered KS is next

[exotic gale]

make it blade dance like dh and problem solved

[mighty pivot]

it's high noon

[upper hawk]

can you move during ks?

[vivid vessel]

yes

[hallow spoke]

might as well just make it MF ult at this point

[upper hawk]

wow, so you guys get convoke

too

[gaunt phoenix]

Unplug internet during ks and it queues up 37 shots

[fallow hinge]

everyone loves a lag switch

[desert tendon]

is that in sims solo?

Liiiiiz

[vivid vessel]

every 15s

[exotic gale]

MF ult doesnt sound bad at all

[leaden folio]

can you hit mob behind wall with KS ?

[fallow hinge]

put router on top of smart microwave, set it to go on for 10s when you press your KS keybind

win

[fallow hinge]

[upper hawk]

what? it isn't on a long cd now?

[vivid vessel]

ye 3 min

[fallow hinge]

restless blades yo

[vivid vessel]

bro doesnt know

[frank finch]

wait wat

[mighty pivot]

3min cd 👍 🏄‍♀️ 🏄‍♂️

[frank finch]

if ur lagging new ks does extra stuffs

[gaunt phoenix]

its like fth

if you lag during fth

it fires extra times

[frank finch]

[vivid vessel]

remember lag during oldd ks

we just keep that feature

10s ks when lag

[exotic gale]

make game single player, no lag

[vivid vessel]

its 24s i liedd actually

[gaunt phoenix]

noob

[vivid vessel]

15s is live prolly

[gaunt phoenix]

yeh

is there a new weapon enchant

[upper hawk]

i'm not good enough to get optimal. it should be on the same cadence as adrenaline rush roughly? isn't that 3 minutes too?

[blazing bloom]

wait can you cancel killing spree!!?!?!!?

[gaunt phoenix]

the new one yea

[vivid vessel]

ks i s a bit lower cause of trickster

2.7min

but ye

[balmy topaz]

[vivid vessel]

?

[balmy topaz]

Where stream

[vivid vessel]

massive stalckers vibes

[balmy topaz]

[gaunt phoenix]

i miss zero

[frank finch]

[vivid vessel]

why isnt he back

[gaunt phoenix]

he got a week off

[vivid vessel]

feel like it has been a month

maybe im bad with time

[frank finch]

no no you blocked hi ma month ago

thats why

[vivid vessel]

ah ye

im watching sjele play guitar rn

idk hwy

[gaunt phoenix]

Why is sub turbo fucking dslice

are we bad

[vivid vessel]

??

idk man

i feel like

i have been talking into the void

everyone call me a ddoomer

[fallow hinge]

stop being a doomer then

[gaunt phoenix]

i didnt think that sub could do like 10% more overall than law

[vivid vessel]

or maybe ddoing tank st and just normal aoe isnt insane

[cedar kernel]

hi zacc and soloo

[gaunt phoenix]

[frank finch]

i wonder how much dps that void trinket is

[gaunt phoenix]

which one

[frank finch]

this thing is like perma up

[gaunt phoenix]

delve trinket

[mighty pivot]

my quick math says more than 500 dps but less than 30 million

does "slaying" imply a killing blow?

[frank finch]

no

just when it dies

[gaunt phoenix]

30,000 mastery?

[frank finch]

let me log on to confirm

[gaunt phoenix]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iRHSE8hdkPkeeahVxJBPoc

hm

[frank finch]

LOL

i just did the same sim

yea its 30k on ptr

[gaunt phoenix]

that seems like a lot

[balmy topaz]

I mean for it to work for outlaw

[vivid vessel]

i think thats another cause of absolutely not balanced trinket

[balmy topaz]

It's defo busted

[vivid vessel]

ye

[frank finch]

im pretty sure fdk's are using this thing plus cursed idol

[vivid vessel]

everyone is using this trinket

[frank finch]

except us

cuz we are ethical

[gaunt phoenix]

idol was nerfed

Surely this is a better 90s trinket

[frank finch]

i must of missed those notes

[gaunt phoenix]

it was undocumented of course

[vivid vessel]

was it

i remember it

hm

[frank finch]

surely this gets nerfed

[silver sluice]

im sure there's more trinket tuning coming - just feels again like they are down to the wire again

guess they still have 2 weeks I suppose

[frank finch]

seems like there are alot of cd focused trinkets

which ofc we dont like

[silver sluice]

actually I feel like there's a lot of passive shit for melee anyway

[balmy topaz]

Trinkets are pretty wack

[gaunt phoenix]

this whole tier is wack

[frank finch]

😫

[gaunt phoenix]

but i am along for the ride

[covert kestrel]

[frank finch]

wack in terms of what

[latent oak]

nick nack paddy whack

[balmy topaz]

I can't wait for the omega list of tuning after 1st week

gonna be wild

[gaunt phoenix]

tuning mainly

[frank finch]

yea so this void trinket not only gains stacks when stuff dies but also u get stacks pressing buttons

op op

[quiet ore]

Surely it has an ICD or average proc rate though

[gaunt phoenix]

its 10 rppm

[quiet ore]

So it's on average a 90s trinket? That's.... dicey

[smoky venture]

Does anyone know what catalyst will be out?

[gaunt phoenix]

not a clue

levy

ptrmallet?

i can give you apl

[quiet ore]

Yeah, I gotta go get ptr talent strings - reworked KS probably f'd them all up

Or maybe not! I should just do a run and try

[gaunt phoenix]

ks should work, but we change sleight to loaded dice

i think that's it really

[mild vigil]

they should've just given us the tierset bonus from this tier into sleight

[gaunt phoenix]

HO might use 1 vigor 2 lethality

[mild vigil]

maybe slightly less if they wanted to be not fun

[quiet ore]

Spoiler: I never swapped all my talent strings last season to sleight from LD because I was immensely lazy

[gaunt phoenix]

or ||cold blood||

[quiet ore]

So they're all still LD

[gaunt phoenix]

use this apl

it's like 98% done

[covert kestrel]

[gaunt phoenix]

I did smoosh the off_meta vanish into one line

kinda big brained it

but might have fucked it

[vivid bone]

Never admit faults.

Its always perfect.

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[mighty pivot]

I bring cats

[mighty pivot]

big floof

[sudden fulcrum]

Ledge cat is watching you mess up your rotation

[teal garnet]

Sure is

[gaunt phoenix]

Ledge cat observes the mortals below

[teal garnet]

It's this weird spot near the ceiling above the kitchen and the fridge, it has become the cat perch

[sudden fulcrum]

I bet the cat loves that

[teal garnet]

Oh she does, perfect for parkour, she regularly pounces full force from ledge onto me in the bed

Less than ideal but w.e

[balmy topaz]

Nerf outlaw gg

[mighty pivot]

more like purrkour amirite

[teal garnet]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6a/43/5c/6a435ccb95e75d09de76df092b6dd528.gif

[balmy topaz]

A wild @abstract frost

[willow portal]

should i use locknstalk in precision mode or aoe mode?

[digital onyx]

activate windows

[jolly geyser]

Maybe thats the wa

[worldly shale]

And the dispatch from bte also applies that right?

[mighty pivot]

yes

[forest canopy]

It must do because I thought it was random when DPSing and figured it couldn't just be one source.

[mighty pivot]

top secret passive

if you hide your passives you don't even know you have safe fall

[worldly shale]

Meow

[gaunt phoenix]

Mewo

[gritty comet]

You are correct there is some difficulty in this regard of my part, specially when it involves changing things who are on the backend, also it's all good, no offense on what you said

[gaunt phoenix]

Somehow I knew what I typed would make it to you guys

[gritty comet]

[jovial dome]

And don't mind Zach. he's just Zach. Haha

[gritty comet]

i have been super worried about Demo oversimming too by the way, but i couldn't find anything yet.

[gaunt phoenix]

We are kind of similar with assassination seemingly undersimming

But can't really find anything

[gritty comet]

It's been odd, specially in regards to hotfixes

[gaunt phoenix]

there's always something that doesn't quite interact the way blizzard intends it to be

[covert kestrel]

Yeah like how the player base doesn't interact with rogue

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[gritty comet]

also, i am not sure if this have happened with you, but there have been something like.. some effect who rly shouldn't interact with something but it started interacting this expansion?

asking out of curiostiy because its something that happene to us and i heard 1 or other reports for different classes too

[gaunt phoenix]

Hmm I can't think of something off the top

[red zinc]

maybe the gm multi thing

[silver sluice]

there's always some toy or neutral mob thing that seemingly pops up but i dunno about this PATCH specifically

[gaunt phoenix]

But I work on outlaw stuff which is mostly spared of weird interactions

I know sub rogue has a bunch of random things

[daring oxide]

he got a week off? what happened?

[gritty comet]

Like, i swear that in the past, effects who targeted SELF wouldn't extend to the pet, then comes TWW beta and we had things like Overfiend machinegunning chaos bolts because now the chaos bolt buffs destro had would apply to the pet chaos bolts too

[gaunt phoenix]

Zero was mutes for some uncivil behavior

[daring oxide]

wtf

[gaunt phoenix]

muted even

[daring oxide]

why am i always asleep

during the drama

im sad i miss the popcorn moments

[covert kestrel]

Oh lol I just thought he was a runescape boy now and gave up trying to troll zac

[daring oxide]

i see

was he trolling zac again

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah I get you I mean there is probably some example of behaviors changing over time for seemingly no reason but not sure at the moment

[gritty comet]

But yeah, TWW is an expansion who have i would define as "odd" in regards to implementation of stuff

[gaunt phoenix]

We've definitely seen that

The way lingering darkness is implemented seems strange

[gritty comet]

but i am glad that even with all the problems they went and gave a try at Hero Talent Tiersets, rly like the idea.

now, i will be going o/

[tender wedge]

yeah honestly i respect the cook even if it doesn't land that well

just wish they had more resource to devote to the things that don't work, not just that aren't tuned well

[balmy topaz]

Yeah sure

wtf

[sudden fulcrum]

owned

[tender wedge]

where evasion

[balmy topaz]

Evasion don't work on them

[tender wedge]

lol of course

hard to know sometimes

alltimes*

[haughty wigeon]

i mean mm hunter variance is freaking huge for somereason

no one knows enoguh about mm hunter to check wtf is going on outside of hunter tcers

but you know how that goes

[hard summit]

would you say outlaw is an okay rogue spec to pick up as the first, or would it be better to start with assassination?

[sudden fulcrum]

sin is easier

[hard summit]

im more looking for “fun” (which I know is subjective) over “good” tbh

[sudden fulcrum]

you can always try both and see what is easier/fun for you though

[neat mist]

Man who knows

Some people only play Outlaw, other rogues talk about Outlaw like it's the enemy

[lime lake]

If you have adhd outlaw is most fun

[neat mist]

Give it a go for yourself

[lime lake]

Otherwise just try all

[tender wedge]

outlaw is certainly the odd child of the 3

[languid coral]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hard summit]

are people generally playing all three specs? or are they different enough that it’s worth sticking with one primarily

[sudden fulcrum]

i'm a big proponent of learning all specs for your class so you can excel in every situation

[tender wedge]

i play outlaw for as long as i can until im forced off it by say, a sprocketmonger

or the tuning is so bad i can switch to assass and immediately do way better

but i do play all 3

[hard summit]

and we’re on the cusp of a big patch so the tuning could be all over the place

sick

[tender wedge]

i just have a very clear order of preference

[hard summit]

ty all, I’ll try some out and see how I feel ❤️

[vivid vessel]

Ok but fatebound was right there tho

[tender wedge]

yeah but i don't like it

[covert heart]

What a quiter!

[frank finch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/741275386188529734/1372656620034592869/3882ade1b2e0cab5893c24ec180af244.gif?ex=68892098&is=6887cf18&hm=6097c78863946f889fcbfeff9614c20778e0c71d3d452958cd33740e6d96be03&

[tender wedge]

that also fell under the "play assass and do way better" thing

for me

[blissful zinc]

just from a glance what would u say im doing wrong for such a dps

[covert heart]

I see no issues the dps should have moved

[worldly shale]

[covert heart]

Not pressing ks

[blissful zinc]

what % should ks be at

[worldly shale]

150%

Whats ur uptime on adrenaline rush

[vivid vessel]

show buffs

[covert heart]

Not sure what the exact percent but it should be near the top of your damage done

[blissful zinc]

how to check

[vivid vessel]

but you are using hekilih

!

press on details

it will open

[vivid vessel]

auras

top right

[dim widget]

where shadow quake

[worldly shale]

Where do u see his hekili

[vivid vessel]

ye

[dim widget]

i dont even see adr

in his aureas

am i blind

[vivid vessel]

you need to train a lot

no secrets here

you are too new to ask what you are doing wrong

just continue playing

[worldly shale]

same XD

[vivid vessel]

read the faq a few times a day

[blissful zinc]

thats what i do and try to keep the buffs up

[dim widget]

mby start out with ho

easier to get basics

[worldly shale]

Def start with Ho

[blissful zinc]

i dont want to play HO

[vivid vessel]

the whole thing of outlaw is getting better leads to getting better uptime on everything which leads to getting better uptime on everything etc

[dim widget]

because basics are similiar between both builds

[covert heart]

I had to read the information quite a few times and took me like 48 hrs of gameplay to finally feel comfortable

[vivid vessel]

the important part of current outlaw is pressing killing spree on cd (outside of subterfuge), vanishing on cd with adr up

and ye thats it

build cps

[covert heart]

I played ho for like the first day to get the basic understanding

[vivid vessel]

finish at 6/7

[dim widget]

roll on cd if 4 or less buffs

[blissful zinc]

im doing it except when i need to avoid boss mechanic i am holding KS

[vivid vessel]

ye but

[blissful zinc]

and im having hard time keeping the buffs

[covert heart]

You ahould just send it

[vivid vessel]

you arent actually doing it good enough yet

just have to play more

[blissful zinc]

Okay

[vivid vessel]

no secrets here really

[blissful zinc]

will keep practicing

[sudden fulcrum]

no steam here, just smoke!

[dim widget]

also circes and duskthread arent that good for law

[blissful zinc]

thank you guys

[dim widget]

so you might wanna replace those if possible

[worldly shale]

Adrenaline is the biggest problem tho no?

[dim widget]

and get cudgel for keys

[dim widget]

most likely yes

[vivid vessel]

ok but

there is no magic

adr comes with playing better

ther is no secret solution to having better adr uptime

[worldly shale]

U know when i started outlaw

[lime lake]

Other than being French

[hybrid crown]

!commonerrors

[ornate heath]

Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.

[lime lake]

That part helps

[blissful zinc]

also 1 more thing

[worldly shale]

I thought adr was just a fill my cp baby spell

XD

[dim widget]

no way

[hybrid crown]

#outlaw-faq

[blissful zinc]

if i remove alacritiy with what should i replace it

[worldly shale]

for like 3 days

[vivid vessel]

ok tbf

[blissful zinc]

or its not necesary

[vivid vessel]

it says nothing

on the tooltip of adr

shits kinda trash

[dim widget]

tooltips are a meme ye

[vivid vessel]

but its your 3 min cd so its kinda obvious its at least a lil bit important

[worldly shale]

ye i wasnt here, was just solo trying out the spec

realized it a couple days later

[light coral]

I’m a dirty causal Playing outlaw for kicks . Rotation question: do we not hit ambush when the ability procs the free out of stealth ambush? I just read 2 guides and neither mentions it

[vivid vessel]

no

you hit ss

actually important because the talnet is bugged

and if you hit ambush instead with the ambush proc

it does less damage

[willow portal]

but why ss when ambush gives more cp during vanish window`?

[vivid vessel]

ss proc

audacity

replace ss by an ambush

[blissful zinc]

Zac how much haste is ideally

[vivid vessel]

that ambush is better than normal ambush

20% for you

[blissful zinc]

if i remove alacrity to reduce haste what should i replace it with

[vivid vessel]

you dont

dont do that

[lime lake]

[willow portal]

not sure what you mean to say now

[blissful zinc]

im on 23% haste

[vivid vessel]

20% is outside alacrity

ye its ifne wahtever

a bit high but

[blissful zinc]

Okay

[vivid vessel]

you will survive

[vivid vessel]

when you proc audacity

[blissful zinc]

i will invest in crit/vers now

[vivid vessel]

your ss is replaced by an ambush

that ambush is differnet than the ambush button

and its better

so if you press your actual ambush button

when you proc the ambush proc

you are trolling

press ss instead

which is replaced by ambush

hope you understand

[tender wedge]

this means you don't need macro anymore right

you just let SS become amb

[vivid vessel]

well ss doesnt become ambush in stealth

and in stealth you would want to press that ss when you proc audacity also

[tender wedge]

ahhhh gotcha

[willow portal]

so we do press ambush then?

[vivid vessel]

In stealth as ho ye

But with audacity proc you press your SS bind

[willow portal]

with the stance macro that wont use the ss then right

[vivid vessel]

ye it wont

unless you have another ss somewhere

[light coral]

I had no idea about this

[vivid vessel]

ye its pinned here

if you scroll down a lot

[dim widget]

mby that should be in faq?

[vivid vessel]

nvm its not pinned anywhere

[light coral]

Ty. I’m just playing for kicks but appreciate it

[dim widget]

i dont think it is

[blissful zinc]

you're a whole encyclopedia

[vivid vessel]

its somewhere in the faq

[dim widget]

i also thought that got changed during df

because ppl yapped how stupid it is

(understandably)

[vivid vessel]

its in the bug section

[dim widget]

oh you mean this? @vivid vessel

ye

[vivid vessel]

ye

[dim widget]

bro this goofy ass specc and whole class is just cursed

[dapper herald]

first time?

[tender wedge]

to technically you can have an audacity proc

in stealth

and have 2 different ambushes available

?

[dim widget]

na i have been flurrying dead targets for quite some time

[vivid vessel]

Well ye

Bad you want to press ss

Not ambush

[tender wedge]

christ

next question is

[vivid vessel]

no

[dim parrot]

Easy

[tender wedge]

lol

[dim parrot]

Just don’t play ho

[tender wedge]

using that macro will cast SS ambush or ambush ambush in that situation?

[vivid vessel]

!ambush

[ornate heath]

It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[vivid vessel]

that macro?

this cast ambush in stealth (the bad ambush eww)

and ss out of stealth (ambush if its an auda proc (but the ambush you want, the good one))

[tender wedge]

but it'll cast ambush ambush in stealth with audacity proc still

so its not quite perfect

[gaunt phoenix]

Thats fine

[vivid vessel]

yes

[willow portal]

so is taht a good macro then

[vivid vessel]

ideally in stealth you also want a ss bind

its not the most important thing in stealth tho

its mostly out of stealth you get all your auda procs

[tender wedge]

ok, thanks for the proper explanation

[vivid vessel]

well ye for what it does

[gaunt phoenix]

audacity and stealth overlapping at the same time is not often

[vivid vessel]

yo ustill need to press ambush when in stealth

[tender wedge]

i thought i understood that interaction but was missing a wee bit

[gaunt phoenix]

Enough to matter

[vivid vessel]

instead of ss

[willow portal]

hm :(

[vivid vessel]

just

[vivid vessel]

so like

use that macro if you want thats fine

[tender wedge]

no no that's all good thanks team, i will be content with my minor suboptimal binds

[vivid vessel]

just know that if you want to minmax a lil % more

you will need a ss bind

for stealth

for when you get auda procs

[willow portal]

and an ambush bind?

[tender wedge]

yes

[willow portal]

didnt you just say i need to use ambush in stleah

[vivid vessel]

well if you are using that macro its your ambush bind while in stealth right

[willow portal]

ok lets do it like this. i have 1 bind i am using. Should i just do SS only or that macro?

[vivid vessel]

that macro

but if you have that on a stelath bar anyway

it will change in stealth so you need to bind it also in stealth and then might aswell just bind ambush in stealth and ss out of stealth right

[willow portal]

i dont have stealth bar

[gaunt phoenix]

SS turns into ambush during audacity, but it does not turn into ambush during stealth

[vivid vessel]

good

[gaunt phoenix]

that's all the macro is solving

[willow portal]

so this macro is then overall better than the macro that swaps to ambush for stealth right

[vivid vessel]

[frank finch]

[willow portal]

this is what i used

[vivid vessel]

this macro is the macro that swaps to ambush for stelath

thats the same thing

[willow portal]

oh

[vivid vessel]

ok so this also only does it for ho

not for kir

so you can play the 2 builds

if you are playing kir it wont swap

if you are playing ho it will swap to ambush in stealth

what a banger macro !

holy shmoke !

[tender wedge]

but KiR wants to never hit ambush right

[willow portal]

i am getting more confused only

[vivid vessel]

ok

bro

i give up

[tender wedge]

you tried ❤️

[vivid vessel]

i dont think im that bad at explaining guys

there is no way

[gaunt phoenix]

the macro presses bugged ambush during audacity and presses normal ambush during stealth

[lime lake]

Too French for me to understand

[willow portal]

i am just new to the class i think and having ambush and "ambushPrime" is kinda confusing

[gaunt phoenix]

Which is good enough

[vivid vessel]

ye well

thats on blizzard

refusing to fix a bug

cause its prolly easier for them

if they fix the bug they have to also buff ho

wtf !

too hard

[lime lake]

Tbf it is a bit silly but this is outlaw class fantasy

[dim widget]

correct

[vivid vessel]

this has been a thing forever

and they know about it

so its just refusal to fix it

[dim widget]

just have 2 bind

one sinister

one ambush

fixed

[vivid vessel]

you cna bug report it if you want

tickle them a bit

maybe they wake up from hibernation one day

[worldly shale]

Btw anyone else had a problem when vanishing that it micro stutters?

IM FREE OF THAT CURSE

[vivid vessel]

really

waht did you do

[worldly shale]

p2w

[vivid vessel]

i also have this problem sometimes

[worldly shale]

bought a 7800x3d

[vivid vessel]

fuck

[worldly shale]

ahahhaha

[vivid vessel]

i already have that

[gaunt phoenix]

[worldly shale]

oh rly

[vivid vessel]

ye

imma try a 9800x3d instead

surely it works right

[worldly shale]

i figured it was from all the out of combat auras loading

[willow portal]

idk i am on a 9800x3d and i am having freezes sometimes

[vivid vessel]

imma keep throwing hardware at this game

till i get more than 30 fps in raid

[willow portal]

but not like each vanish or sth

[vivid vessel]

good game

[worldly shale]

i had it EACH vanish on 7600x

[red zinc]

i just reduced my addons and their refresh rates

And now im fine

I only have the underwater ks crashes

Outside of that nothing

[worldly shale]

bro outlaw is really the outlaw of this game

"its just the ks crashes underwater"

[willow portal]

thats what i get during mythic gally p2 with 9800x3d and 4070super

[red zinc]

you can ks into puddles in dungeons and crash

If your char gets submerged (gotta be short enough like dwarf or gnome)

[worldly shale]

ima try, think i was at like 50-60 on the old cpu

with a 7900xt

[mighty pivot]

why would you KS underwater. Underwater is clearly the domain of sub

[red zinc]

seek salvation

[lime lake]

Was sub the bis spec on blackwater behemoth

I hope so

[mighty pivot]

there is no salvation

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/no-salvation-no-salv-satomaya-marutoku-maduzu-gif-10935768490475284437

[buoyant cosmos]

I did KS into jumping on a bee in brew and it kicked me out of the game lol

[daring oxide]

tomorrow

big outlaw tuning ptr

[winter sparrow]

Any 11.2 trinket sims floating around already?

[daring oxide]

tuesday tuning

[daring oxide]

yeah whatever zac's using we copy

[gaunt phoenix]

sporadically, I can do a big one

We have like 6 good trinkets it seems

and that delve trinket that gives 30,000 mastery

[winter sparrow]

Cool, Outlaw always ends up liking its own set of trinkets so it's very helpful to have those numbers vs. the Haste/Mastery lovers

[willow portal]

wtf bran can bioprint himself?

[sudden fulcrum]

damn Brann is OP

[covert kestrel]

Don't talk to me or my son ever again

[gaunt phoenix]

here's single target https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/afHSHSP7bEbhwSzVHeCfUd

and dslice https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ceQXUDKqbwEJF4LpQoNkNk

basically Sigil of the Cosmic Hunt is the clear winner and then a handful of trinkets are similar it seems

between you and me this thing seems a bit strong if even outlaw will take it

[red zinc]

DAY1 MASTERY TRINKIE BELIEVER

(30k mastery cant be real theyll fix it surely)

[winter sparrow]

I wouldn't believe too hard

[gaunt phoenix]

One thing that is interesting is that the pacemaker is mildly ahead of the antenna, even though the antenna is straight up a larger stat budget

my guess is that it's because the antenna can overlap can give you 12000 crit which is almost too much

[winter sparrow]

Antenna has a proc trigger issue that will be fixed

[gaunt phoenix]

ah, maybe, though it probably assumes to work correctly in sims

[winter sparrow]

Dunno if that's accounted for in sims but I've seen it mentioned elsewhere

[red zinc]

Can you see somewhere what the rppm on the fragment is

Cause it doesnt feel normal at all

[gaunt phoenix]

it's 2.5 unhasted

oh fragment?

the void fragment is 10 rppm

[red zinc]

even hasted thats gotta be more than 10 idk

Shits proccing every other cast

[gaunt phoenix]

Well even if 10 is the average you can still get more

[red zinc]

Ye but not consistently i imagine

[gaunt phoenix]

i guess how rppm works, 10 is more like the minimum instead of average

[red zinc]

Idk

[glass mortar]

Is it hasted

It shouldn't be actually

[red zinc]

I think the design of that trinket is awkward as fuck and I hope it isnt good

[glass mortar]

Mastery proc right

[red zinc]

Would be the funniest thing with mastery and all that

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah stat procs are hardly ever hasted

[red zinc]

but like

[glass mortar]

How many stacks does it take to proc

[red zinc]

Its gonna proc when pack is dying half the time

10s duration

15

[glass mortar]

Huh

So without killing shit its like 0.75 procs a minute

10s uptime

Maybe it is properly budgeted and the killing stuff part is just op?

[red zinc]

what why would it be 0.75 procs a minute

[frank finch]

it also stacks from pressing buttons

not only killing

[glass mortar]

Well it takes 15 stacks to cause the proc doesnt it

10 rppm

[red zinc]

oh like that

[glass mortar]

That's 1.5m per natty proc

[red zinc]

yeye

0.66 then

na anyway

its definitely more than that

Just off hitting aoe dummies it procs like every 30s

shit zooms

[glass mortar]

Yea thats waaaay higher then its data then

[gaunt phoenix]

log it

[red zinc]

ill do it tomorro

[glass mortar]

Like 1.5m average time to proc 10s duration

That's 1/9 total uptime on the buff

I'm too lazy to decimal on my phone rn

But sounds pretty shit without the other thing to make it op

[red zinc]

It just seems funny asf that a 30k stat proc main stat trinket even exists

[glass mortar]

Mhm

[red zinc]

Regardless of how good it is

[gaunt phoenix]

I mean 90 seconds is a dangerous interval to converge towards

cuz of cds

idk

[glass mortar]

Mhm

But being rppm keeps it safe I think

[red zinc]

Its way less sorry i cant log it rn

[glass mortar]

Too much variance on that kinda thing

[red zinc]

I just think like

[glass mortar]

To treat it dedicated

[red zinc]

Average pack of 40s or whatever

Whatll happen is you proc it once, then get a few stacks, and then kill pack and proc it again off that

Buff is useless

[glass mortar]

Yea idk seems very awkward

[gaunt phoenix]

And yet it wins dslice

[frank finch]

nah

[glass mortar]

Like most of its procs should be coming from killing shit

[frank finch]

i seen casual use this thing when playing sub

[red zinc]

Is dslice tank the goat chain puller or nah

[glass mortar]

But it only lasts 10s

Dslice has breaks

[gaunt phoenix]

it's a mix of chains and downtime

[frank finch]

he had it on 14 stacks goign into a pack quite a bit

[red zinc]

ye if its good for law

its goated for everyone else

[gaunt phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-glorpshit-glorp-glorp-cat-alien-cat-alien-gif-9384904690345916257

[red zinc]

Those mfs gettin 200% increased finisher damage out of nowhere

[gaunt phoenix]

nice

[frank finch]

like

how many tmes do u kill the little adds like on 2nd boss halls

or worm in eco

[red zinc]

55

Seventeenthousandthreehundredandthirtynine

[frank finch]

this thing not making it live

[red zinc]

“This thing not making it a week”

Someone said this day 1 ptr

Still here

[frank finch]

cursed idol got got

[red zinc]

they like there being an op delve trinket

Not that many delvers otherwise

[lime lake]

Need to gamba map box

This is our loot box

[frank finch]

then whick ever one of my 3 rogues gets this on release is the one i play

unlucky

[red zinc]

bro

[sudden fulcrum]

3 rogues???

[frank finch]

goign into raid i should say

[lime lake]

30 rogues

[frank finch]

yea

[sudden fulcrum]

Insane

[gaunt phoenix]

most trinket tuning is just late

[red zinc]

55 rogues 55 monks 55 hunters

[sudden fulcrum]

Do you not have a job

[lime lake]

Lmao

[frank finch]

i lik to be effiecent doing splits

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/i'm-doing-something-tim-robinson-i-think-you-should-leave-with-tim-robinson-i'm-working-on-something-i'm-busy-with-something-gif-14573291211869618074

[frank finch]

and not play something i dont know

[lime lake]

Obr for splits

[red zinc]

our boomkin rocks

🏄‍♀️

or something idk what obr is

[covert kestrel]

once boomie, rotten

[red zinc]

it had hidden words dw

(kill) our boomie (with) rocks

[lime lake]

One button rotation

Though I like your version

[red zinc]

yeah that makes sense

used to be bad at golf, then I started seeing the ball as a mini boomkin chicken, and now i send that shit to the green

[upbeat tundra]

i cant even test outlaw on the ptr because nobody will invite me

its just like live

all over again

[lime lake]

[frank finch]

[craggy quiver]

Go sin and do the good ol switcheroo before key

[buoyant cosmos]

Catfish them like feral druids have for years

[final trout]

Any estimate of when/if we stop using cudgel in m+?

[gaunt phoenix]

I know it loses to hero track weapons

dunno about before

[willow portal]

yes yes look at me with my staff and shit surely i wont bite enemies

removing owl form from feral was a big nerf for dungeon invites

[potent cradle]

4

[willow portal]

is this good in aoe mode too?

[latent oak]

12

[willow portal]

only ever used it on bdk and we keep it on st there

[lime lake]

48

[gaunt phoenix]

it's fine not really notable

yes you switch it to aoe mode in aoe

[willow portal]

how good is the wowhead guide for outlaw?

[dim widget]

remember to also change details nick to "DefinetelyASinRogue" and constantly yap in party chat that you cant restealth the way tanks is pulling and they wont notice

[gaunt phoenix]

it's generally fine, should more or less follow my #outlaw-faq

this is a transitory period, both guides will be updated for the new season soon

[willow portal]

no i meant more like gerenal

there are some classes with a clear split between discord and wowhead recommondations afaik

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah it's fine

it's written by guy

foreverguy

green name like me !

[red zinc]

fuckin greener

[daring oxide]

Foreversub

[latent oak]

gr**n

[frail veldt]

the green elite

[daring oxide]

Remember when Zac used to be green

[frail veldt]

LOL

I think yellow suits him better

hes more free

[daring oxide]

He’s like a fallen angel now

[latent oak]

he hasnt been yellow in ages no

[frail veldt]

you mean hasnt been green?

[daring oxide]

Zacs a pink

[frail veldt]

I think he lost green when we lost acro

[latent oak]

he's a pink out of protest

[daring oxide]

lol

[frail veldt]

so start of TWW

[daring oxide]

I remember watching it all unfold

It was so funny

[frail veldt]

or in beta

yeah it was hilarious

I still miss acro

the spec was just objectively more enjoyable

[latent oak]

ya :(

[keen belfry]

Gimme the story I must’ve missed it

[lime lake]

acro remove

zac sad

bam

[daring oxide]

Yes

Acro removed

Zac exploded

Foreverguy came in saying it’s good

Zac get mad

Zac vs Guy like King Kong vs Godzilla

You can imagine the rest

When they both went full CAPS in this chat

Koffing had to come in and use Toxic Bomb, it was super effective

[lime lake]

the shareholders won

[daring oxide]

Zac then got the punishment

He got de-greened

@keen belfry did you like story time

https://tenor.com/view/godzilla-kong-vs-battle-fight-gif-21122673

https://tenor.com/view/godzilla-vs-kong-fight-eat-this-battle-gif-16084420

[latent oak]

which one was guy

[daring oxide]

Lmao the second gif

[lime lake]

the tree lmao