priest does unhinged leech healing
#outlaw
stuck sparrow
then they just faceplant
dawn talon
wont do mechanics wont use their utility wont go in bear for 2 gcds
hasty warren
real
naive river
Is ho outlaw next season going back to 10% haste?
hasty warren
when the venthyr moonkin doesnt do nerzhul orbs
nerzhul 💀
hasty warren
I think in my former guild it was only melee players who was doing orbs
glass mortar
basic mechanic can be turned off for every class
dawn talon
moonkin players will be like "duuude fuck my bottom 1 spec im so squishy it's time to go gear feral i guess..." every season
and then have favourable tuning for the 20th year in a row
gaunt phoenix
nice
hasty warren
fleshcraft immuned the nerzhul knock
wth
stuck sparrow
that was after they buffed plague deviser
to not be useless on bosses
also kevin
short heath
Why People even like the laser chicken? They def playing it cause its busted
Who says oh look this chicken looks so fun to play
hasty warren
equi gameplay 😴
stuck sparrow
idk i need to find the tettles clip where he dies 3x in 10 seconds on skovald
boomy was fun for one thing
dawn talon
tettles has to be like
stuck sparrow
lively spirit abuse in bfa s1
dawn talon
2 identical people
bc sometimes he is the most articulate, well spoken, objective personality in wow casting
and other timse he is the worst player you've ever seen in your life
lime lake
hasty warren
or give arguments on the game
dawn talon
than warrior brain
idk have you seen glicks
stuck sparrow
wasnt that the guy
who ragequit on his mdi team
idr
i mean gromnak is the posterchild warriorbrain
dawn talon
gromnak is too obvious
hasty warren
dawn talon
had to go for a sleeper pick
wintry solar
Show me a smart orc warrior
hasty warren
warrior play are either engineer or knowing which color pen have the best taste
vague cape
warrior play are either engineer or knowing which color pen have the best taste
Never met a warrior with more than 6 brain cells
hasty warren
Never met a warrior with more than 6 brain cells
there's some, maybe 4
war discord is realy funny to read sometimes
formal knot
wintry solar
Good wordle today
atomic magnet
Hey i havent touched outlaw since pre dragonflight. How is the next patch lookin? are they still insisting on keeping subtefuge as a basicly mandatory talent and turning outlaw rogue into discount subtlety rogue?
cinder relic
I'd say that's an extremely reductive way to look at the spec
But yes. It's still about crackshot and subterfuge
wintry solar
Cdr on half the abilities?
Go big or go home bro
Stealing DB
Like
Just admit it
atomic magnet
idk if i'd want to play around with vanish and and all the "use from stealth" abilitys i'd play sub who is exactly designed around that stuff with shadowdance.
I pick outlaw because i want to avoid that shit
fathom bramble
as it stands all 3 specs have significant amounts of stealth hooks in their available kits
it's what makes rogue rogue if you ask me
nova sinew
Stealing DB
Ours now 
wintry solar
Ours now <:Cheesin:1004094333458317332>
Just say you have a crush on us bro
Air out the laundry
fathom bramble
and for what it's worth outlaw has had significant boosts from stealth/vanish for nearly all of the time the spec has existed
so it's not new and probably(hopefully) isn't going anywhere
nova sinew
It’s not like I like you or anything 
wintry solar
as it stands all 3 specs have significant amounts of stealth hooks in their avai...
I, however, would argue that you don't have to play around vanish just because it's rogue.
atomic magnet
as it stands all 3 specs have significant amounts of stealth hooks in their avai...
Yeah i know which is why i havent touched it since pre DF. Again i dont know why they feelt the need to force subtletys exclusive mechanic into every other specc.
wintry solar
It’s not like I like you or anything <:nomf:1265353614671613962>
👉 👈 🥺
Assa has it too
You get the stealthless outlaw from the expac and a half it was stealthless
Since 2017
hasty warren
shadow dance gameplay was so cringe during df
wintry solar
It really was
wintry solar
Random ass 1m cooldown
hasty warren
2 charges of vanish is definitely better
yeah
fathom bramble
I, however, would argue that you don't have to play around vanish just because i...
I think it is almost core to outlaw at this point ot have at least 1 effect that hooks into vanish like this
though we currently might have a bit too many being taken
compared to past vanish effects
wintry solar
Sure, I agree.
hasty warren
I hope someday de change the gameplay for something else than crackshot
fathom bramble
what about crackshot do you find issue with
wintry solar
However my point was moreso just because this is X doesn't necessarily mean it has to have Y or Z
fathom bramble
the talent in a vacuum is just a different finisher to use while stealthed
hasty warren
what about crackshot do you find issue with
I just want to play diferently, I like crackshot atm but if we always play with it it will be boring
fathom bramble
However my point was moreso just because this is X doesn't necessarily mean it h...
I think for me it just wouldn't sit right to have a cooldown that we effectively sit on and never press since it doesn't do anything
tropic zephyr
Yeah i know which is why i havent touched it since pre DF. Again i dont know why...
Having an issue with the theme of the spec is fine, tho I'd encourage you to give it a shot.
Outlaw is pure proc reaction and uptime fiend.
The spec is extremely rewarding and gets you in a nice flow of permanent damage when you do it rigjty
Whereas sub is cringe I do damage once every 2mn
fathom bramble
I just want to play diferently, I like crackshot atm but if we always play with ...
understandable, I hate that in the new talent system the only realistic way to make us stop taking crackshot is to nerf it into the ground
I wish we had something like mists where 1 or 2 talents could potentially compete directly with it
hasty warren
having multiple choice gameplay is graal
wintry solar
I think for me it just wouldn't sit right to have a cooldown that we effectively...
Honestly, anything but uhuh
I'm #1 outlaw fan and I'd fight for that spot
But uhuh
Is so damn annoying
atomic magnet
I think the idea of a specc that focuses more on guns and the swords is fine, cool even. I just think it deserves more identity to itself then having to feed into the vanish/stealth fantasy that originally was more focused around sub. Like this striking from the shadows theme and re entering stealth and stuff is just not what i think of when thinking of outlaw
fathom bramble
uhuh has flaws that can be fixed imo
wintry solar
Fr
fathom bramble
it doesn't necessarily have to go
but we have also had this discussion on uhuh like 4 times soooo
wintry solar
This version of uhuh
Yeah
Because
There's a difference between
Vanish
And subterfuge
Though with the way the tree is
hasty warren
what is uhuh problem ?
wintry solar
Can't have double vanish without subt
fathom bramble
I think the idea of a specc that focuses more on guns and the swords is fine, co...
I think of vanish in combat more like fighting dirty to get some kind of underhanded upper hand instead of using actual shadow magic like sub rogue
wintry solar
Don't do that
wintry solar
what is uhuh problem ?
It's actually why you hate crackshot
fathom bramble
but also for me at the end of the day the gameplay is what counts
and I love crackshot/ace/vanish gameplay
upper hazel
btw is our Vanish so good that blizzard doesn't see us?
hasty warren
It's actually why you hate crackshot
I don't hate it
wintry solar
Or tired
hasty warren
for now
wintry solar
Yeah hate is a strong word
I've been tired of it
I said I wanted something new and Guy put a knife to my throat lol
hasty warren
btw is our Vanish so good that blizzard doesn't see us?
yes
fathom bramble
I choose to believe that they are just cooking up something good and that is why we have no notes
hopium to the max
wintry solar
I think for me it just wouldn't sit right to have a cooldown that we effectively...
I've been thinking and I'm fine with it
hasty warren
I think we're still bottom 4th less played spec
wintry solar
I don't care one way or another
tropic zephyr
I think the idea of a specc that focuses more on guns and the swords is fine, co...
I mean it can look like that from outside, but playing the spec you just feel like a machine gun
frank finch
I choose to believe that they are just cooking up something good and that is why...
at what point is it over cooked tho , its been a while
hasty warren
I choose to believe that they are just cooking up something good and that is why...
my dream
fathom bramble
at what point is it over cooked tho , its been a while
maintain hopium
frank finch
i mean i know we are getting significsnt changes
hasty warren
I mean it can look like that from outside, but playing the spec you just feel li...
u mean with new ks ?
fathom bramble
I've been thinking and I'm fine with it
I feel like every button should have a clear and realistic use case that is fun to interact with and common enough to matter
frank finch
kir might bite the bullet
wintry solar
We had minimal changes going into TWW which is quite the anomaly.
frank finch
but when
fathom bramble
when vanish only existed to dodge some mechanics it just felt meh to me
for the couple of tier that were like that in the last 10 years
I can understand the other perspective though of just having a button with the narrow use of dodging mechanics or dropping combat
I just want my buttons to do something and be used often
hasty warren
My dream is a talent like shadow dust
wintry solar
kir might bite the bullet
I didn't like Ions face in that one interview
hasty warren
where vanish reduce cd of abimities
atomic magnet
I think of vanish in combat more like fighting dirty to get some kind of underha...
I think that could be shown in better ways thow. Like idk fighting dirty is more something i'd personally associate with kidney shot or blind/pocket sand strategys other then vanish.
As it stands now vanish just emulates shadowdance to mutch for me on outlaw to feel unique or different.
Like if i where to explain the three rogue speccs to somebody who doesnt know anything about them i'd say Assassination focuses on poisons, outlaw is about swordplay and guns and subtlety is about striking from the shadows and re entering stealth and sneak attacks but actually that does not matter cause both other rogue speccs do that to.
atomic magnet
Shadowdance emulates vanish
Okey true sorry. Shadowdance goal is to emulate vanish but in the current itteration everybody plays aroudn vanish like its shadowdance
hasty warren
it mimic a fraction of our power
wintry solar
I do think
That
Outlaw should have the choice between vanish and non vanish like the other specs do/have had before
tropic zephyr
u mean with new ks ?
Nah even without we're just perma bte, my point is that people can look at law from the outside and see the vanish stuff and think about sub
Playing the spec you're definitely feeling like a pirate with all the bte, flurry and ps
hasty warren
Nah even without we're just perma bte, my point is that people can look at law f...
Yes I feel the same
since df outlaw is sublaw
fathom bramble
I think that could be shown in better ways thow. Like idk fighting dirty is more...
well it's all a thematic opinion at the end of the day I suppose
you can always have your opinion on what outlaws theme should be
hasty warren
I'd be weird but I realy like the RNG concept of outlaw
hasty warren
and I'm a bit sad they didn't push it further
wintry solar
The step towards more stealth was fine but the tree is loaded with stealth talents and went too far in one direction, giving people the idea that outlaw is sub jr
fathom bramble
idk it's weird since vanish was almost always strongest on outlaw
and most used on outlaw
wintry solar
Because now the spec doesn't even work outside of subterfuge
fathom bramble
it's a natural place for the talent to go to when you vanish so much as law
wintry solar
idk it's weird since vanish was almost always strongest on outlaw
Vanish yes
atomic magnet
Nah even without we're just perma bte, my point is that people can look at law f...
And i love that part about it. I love the guns and the multishots on pistol shot, and i lvlt my outlaw to 80 specifically because i love the new killing spree ability coming next patch. But i cant shake this bitter taste of playing basicly a subrogue with different animations
fathom bramble
that's true
fathom bramble
I do think it's very strange to have so many talents on our spec tree that rely so heavily on a class tree talent
a lot of this stuff should jsut be on vanish
and have nothing to do with subterfuge if you ask me
fathom bramble
I'm not sure what you mean
wintry solar
That's the nature of CD specs
fathom bramble
you are kind of always spamming dps on outlaw no?
hasty warren
I'm not sure what you mean
I don't like not having the choice to either dps or cc
wintry solar
you are kind of always spamming dps on outlaw no?
Can assa and sub play without double vanish this season?
hasty warren
during ssubt window I feel like I'll explose if I do something else than generate cp and bte
fathom bramble
you would be surprised how little you can lose from sending the odd cheapshot
hasty warren
you are kind of always spamming dps on outlaw no?
y but I don't like having specific timing where I can't do what I want
fathom bramble
Can assa and sub play without double vanish this season?
idk, not my department
wintry solar
Time to get my feet wet
hasty warren
you would be surprised how little you can lose from sending the odd cheapshot
wdym ?
cheapshot is st stun during stealth right ?
fathom bramble
1 single gcd being lost to a spell that generate CP anyway isn't some massive loss
a lot of other specs are seeing a similar loss from using their own cc
hasty warren
sry I don't have game in eng
agile orchid
idk, not my department
Double vanish is useless on sub
It’s more of a thing for assa in m+
but it’s not mandatory
fathom bramble
interesting
I only tend to look at the other 2 if I might need to play them in a new tier
hasty warren
1 single gcd being lost to a spell that generate CP anyway isn't some massive lo...
idk I feel like it's horrible when I do it, i'm surely wrong tho
fathom bramble
I assume neither use it in raid then since sin just uses it for spreading dots
wintry solar
Wowhead has way too many ads on mobile
hasty warren
I assume neither use it in raid then since sin just uses it for spreading dots
fro aoe boss it can be play
but it's realy marginal
fathom bramble
idk I feel like it's horrible when I do it, i'm surely wrong tho
I think it will always feel way worse than it is
even when cheapshot was a gain people hated pressing it
and felt like it was bad
atomic magnet
Do i see correctly that you dont even use slice and dice currently?XD
wintry solar
Can assa and sub play without double vanish this season?
Assa can and I'm gonna assume sub can as well
atomic magnet
See thats something outlaw should have imo. Fast flurry of blades with slice and dice! :<
hasty warren
even when cheapshot was a gain people hated pressing it
ure right
wintry solar
People who hate cheapshot are the same who don't have kick bound
hasty warren
People who hate cheapshot are the same who don't have kick bound
i'm lacking of binds for it
wintry solar
How
hasty warren
I should remake my keybinds one day
wintry solar
What are you possibly filling your binds with
hasty warren
I hate 2 buton on my mouse and I use shift
I can't use ctrl on alt
my hand does weird things with it idk why
fathom bramble
it's rough trying to play an mmo these days without a mouse that has 12 buttons on the side
hasty warren
it's rough trying to play an mmo these days without a mouse that has 12 buttons ...
maybe I should give it a try
wintry solar
It's so nice
fathom bramble
they also stopped making the one I use to suggest
hasty warren
I'm affraid of getting lost
fathom bramble
so idk what is good, and I'll have to swap eventually
wintry solar
I saw the new outlaw icon on wowhead amd got confused
fathom bramble
I have almost all 12 bound
wintry solar
I have 36 bound
Racials, toys, and mounts fill the spots
And then potions and shit
Healthstone
fathom bramble
even without mounts or toys I'm at 9 binds on the 12
hasty warren
I have 1-5 + a e f r t + mb4 and mb5 and mb3 and all this with shift mod
fathom bramble
sprint/hook/push to talk/defensives/potions
hasty warren
and the little 2 for stealth
fathom bramble
step use to have a spot but they replaced it with 2 charges of hook
so that is just empty still
hasty warren
i still have empty bind on 4 tho it was snd
but idk what to bind on
cheapshot is weord being on 4
fathom bramble
with how rare you press cheapshot it can surely find a home on like 6
not a prime keybind
unless you pvp idk
hasty warren
6 is too far for me
hasty warren
unless you pvp idk
not this season
I think it can be on my stealth bar but idk what to ignore during stealth
maybe ks so I don't accidently press it during subt xd
torpid fiber
6 is too far for me
Yeah that's the trick tbh
u put it somewhere dogshit
If you ever need to press cheap shot in pve it's going to be in a spot where just getting it off is all that matters
hasty warren
Yeah that's the trick tbh
u put it somewhere dogshit
y but my hand can't reach it other way than droping qwsd
torpid fiber
yeah mine neither
hasty warren
I don't like getting my finger off of mouvement keys
ok I maybe have an idea
i've one more button on my mouse that is not supported by the game
but I can macro it to a key
naive river
i use a g502 and the big dpi button is ctrl for midifiers because i started playing wow way to long ago and no longer have the ability to learn an mmo mouse
hasty warren
i use a g502 and the big dpi button is ctrl for midifiers because i started play...
i've the same
naive river
i got the mouse when it came out and ive only ever replaced it with newer versions of the mouse lol
hasty warren
was actually talking about dpi button xd
cursive stag
i use a 12 button mmo mouse + shift and i do my whole rotation with it + utility, kick on q, wasd to move + mouse. Could not play without it fr
hasty warren
i got the mouse when it came out and ive only ever replaced it with newer versio...
same I bough a new one last year
fast summit
I use mouse only for party targeting as healer. CTRL, SHIFT, ALT, more than enough keybinds. Covering even all focus binds. 😄
naive river
same I bough a new one last year
the new ones dont have weights in em and it made me sad
fast summit
How are you lacking keybinds? 😮
hasty warren
the new ones dont have weights in em and it made me sad
y it's sad
naive river
i loved it being heavy
hasty warren
3 weights is perfect
hasty warren
i use a 12 button mmo mouse + shift and i do my whole rotation with it + utility...
it's bot weird doing all rotation with the thumb ?
cursive stag
i am used to it, for me it feels weird to do everything with 5 fingers on my left hand
fast summit
it's bot weird doing all rotation with the thumb ?
Its all fun and games, until carpal kicks in. 😄
naive river
outlaw will get you there faster also
hasty warren
I legit have to rest my hands before raid
cold jewel
it's rough trying to play an mmo these days without a mouse that has 12 buttons ...
mine has 3 
fast summit
Yea. Played with 12buttons for a year or so. And switched back to 5 finger tech. ;D
hasty warren
if I did too much keys it start hurting
fast summit
I legit have to rest my hands before raid
So much this! I can relate.
hasty warren
I've a friend who's scared to play ol because I complain often having hand pain
even if I tell hil u get use to it
hardy vault
like idk if i'm doing something wrong
but my hand definitely starts to hurt after 3 keys
hasty warren
but my hand definitely starts to hurt after 3 keys
u get use to it
hasty warren
no seriously it depend on many things like key binds and ur hands conditions
but if u don't rest a little ur hands it normal to have pain after few keys
in my experience
but fortunately since no one want to get u in pugs have plenty of time to rest between keys
hasty warren
hardy vault
i did that yesterday and nobody died funnily
hasty warren
lol
hardy vault
ks is not gonna be missed tho
hasty warren
well it don't os it's "ok"
hasty warren
ks is not gonna be missed tho
real
RIP
but no one will press F
I'm so happy not having to explain anymore at my RL why i'm playing KS
nova sinew
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1374363430362021979/Ki...
look mom im famous
hasty warren
look mom im famous
it's yours ?
nova sinew
it's yours ?
its my guildies clip
hasty warren
its my guildies clip
I realy like it, it's piece of art
nova sinew
ill never forget you, old killing spree 😢
hasty warren
I'll still remember the 10 minutes of crazy laugh we had with guildies watching a boss record with me using KS at worst timing possible
I think it was rik during the frontal line
nova sinew
tank line on mugzee is op with killing spree
hardy vault
cauldron beam gotta be worse
hasty warren
tank line on mugzee is op with killing spree
I int so much try with the golden puddle
hasty warren
cauldron beam gotta be worse
I think if i'd did it i'd got kick instant
nova sinew
cauldron beam gotta be worse
hardy vault
i like the hps cheese you can do with it
healers looked at me funny when i was topping the meters as outlaw in some of the hc pugs i did it in
hasty warren
the WA that say when I'll die from KS is peak fiction
when it tell i'm getting 20% of my hp per ticks because I took a frontal
hasty warren
Wtf is he dying to
a mysterie
toxic laurel
Anybody knows the answer please ? :
99% of the time , pressing Adrenaline Rush while its still active put it back at 20s duration.
But sometimes , and I would like to know why it kinda extend the duration and i get it up to something like 26 second duration remaining
inland acorn
It's a bug
Sometimes it randomly pandemics into 26s
Nobody knows how, not even blizzard probably
toxic laurel
Alright, so i cannot do it consistently , thank you very much !
hasty warren
Does someone can help me to find an argument ?
I'm arguing with a friend with the fact that for phys comp doing more little packs is better than bigger one. But I'm missing a point to convince him.
My arguments are that lower target cap and shorter cd makes smaller pulls better and than if u cut a big pull in half u'll actually gain time.
lone spear
Does someone can help me to find an argument ?
I'm arguing with a friend with th...
can argue that coordinating CC and and interrupts on a smaller pack is easier than on bigger one
(even tho its not really true but they might not know xdd)
hasty warren
can argue that coordinating CC and and interrupts on a smaller pack is easier th...
y but it's the same for regular comps ?
lone spear
well thats the thing it isnt actually any better or worse imo it depends on comp
buuuut if u wanna gaslight them
gotta be sneaky
craggy kelp
I mean the play is to pull as much as you reasonably can without losing time
Isn’t feral/arms phys comp
They’re not completely hard capped right
But like think of outlaw/enhance/fury or something
bright lodge
No AoE stops ig
tribal surge
Does someone can help me to find an argument ?
I'm arguing with a friend with th...
Outlaw capped, end.
normal forge
Does someone can help me to find an argument ?
I'm arguing with a friend with th...
Capped is the only reason. And the big real problem on high keys
hasty warren
Capped is the only reason. And the big real problem on high keys
ok but why it's better to do more pulls than a big one ?
that's what I want to prove
normal forge
capped mean you can only do dmg to a maximum number of mobs, so rogue can only hit current target + 7,
therefore, if you have a pack of 9 mobs, one mob will never receive any dmg, and just bother ur group with extra dmg taken and mechanics
hasty warren
so it's not about damage dealing but damage taken and cc/interrups ?
pliant wind
Its impressive at us and eu forums how many people talks about meta and doesnt even play m+ last season or this one
its cringe
bright lodge
You don’t gain much speed pulling big packs, also you don’t have cds to kill said packs quicker so your tank won’t run out of defencives
IMO
Zac would explain better, but rogue target cap is the main thing I think
inland acorn
If its phys comp you also have warrior which also has 5-8 target cap outside of like 2 abilities no ?
vivid vessel
Does someone can help me to find an argument ?
I'm arguing with a friend with th...
Well, for one we are mostly target capped so we don't gain much doing one big pull
Secondly big pulls are just harder so if you don't kill it fast with CDs, tank will die, people will die etc
I think a good example of that is how we do our first pack cinderbrew, we pull 3 muscles just like the meta comp but we don't pull as many smallies, it's the only way we manage to kill the muscles before they kill us, if we take more smallies we just do less damage and we die
I don't think you actually gain time, but it's just not possible
To pull bigger
We do a lot of chain pulling instead
Which outlaw excel at
It's also why I argue all the time that outlaw SHOULD be doing more damage than uncapped class
Cause you hit a wall otherwise
If I do the same damage as dk on 8 targets
But dk can pull higher and I can't
How do I gain time over dk
normal forge
some classes got nerfed yesterday/today, so we might be in even better shape
pliant wind
nerfing other classes dont get us in better shape, just buff us
atleast in ST, a little
vivid vessel
some classes got nerfed yesterday/today, so we might be in even better shape
I mean
They didn't really nerf dk and fire
Neither arcane
So
They buffed sp even
Which is kinda crazy
They really like these magicians comp
They buffed dh aswell
Hm
Seems like I sense a patern there
craggy kelp
The sp buff was the most egregious thing I saw
craggy kelp
Well I think technically they nerfed vw st?
vivid vessel
I think the funny thing is
elemantal shaman
simmed higher than outlaw right
and they got a 20% st buff
craggy kelp
normal forge
Maybe blizzard thinks we don't know how to play outlaw. Gotta be it
vivid vessel
and i know sims means nothing
but for outlaw
you consistently sims high
and you are bad
if you just sim low
bright lodge
Your APL sucks, you should do up-up-right-left-down-left, then turn around and clap for dmg buff. Also don’t forget to track ub
vivid vessel
idk outlaw sims have always been quite accurate
if you go against a dummy you will do the same number
wintry solar
Maybe blizzard thinks we don't know how to play outlaw. Gotta be it
That's the funniest take ever
vivid vessel
obviously once on a real fight
you get fucked by uptime and shit
but thats a diff subject
hasty warren
Well, for one we are mostly target capped so we don't gain much doing one big pu...
tyvm Zac
bright lodge
you get fucked by uptime and shit
That’s true for everyone I ghink
vivid vessel
its certainly not true to the level of outlaw lol
bright lodge
There is “light movement” in sims. Is it good?
vivid vessel
no
you cant use sims to determine that
but its not hard to understand
both specs do 100 dps
one does 50% of its damage during a 20s window
the other just does damage all the time
what happen if 20% of the fight you arent doing anything for example
well outlaw loses 20% of its damage
the other spec loses 20% of 50%
thats jsut cds
now outlaw also have the uuh loop and shit
which agravate that issue even mroe
then you also have damage amps that comes into playu
which obviously
cds are better
bright lodge
Ye. Flat line is not the thing you really wanna see. But good for key filler slot, no? Like Outlaw was in SL with Mage comp
But we still had more curved line back then
pliant wind
Didnt try in a lot of time, but we can cast 3 cheap shots for free to stun 3 different targets for 6 seconds in like 2s, its not bad (ofc u lost a lot of dps but, well, happens)
balmy topaz
Ye. Flat line is not the thing you really wanna see. But good for key filler slo...
Yeah but it means with flat profile dmg specs
You have to actually do damage
Which currently we don’t do anything crazy
vivid vessel
Didnt try in a lot of time, but we can cast 3 cheap shots for free to stun 3 dif...
bro said for free
💀
vivid vessel
only 3 gcds during your damage window
pliant wind
yeah but didnt think about it, its not bad to stun like 3 or more times for 6s
vivid vessel
bro
pliant wind
but well, its more for pvp i guess
vivid vessel
other specs just press an aoe stun
balmy topaz
Just 3 GCDs in a crack shot window
vivid vessel
wdym
balmy topaz
pliant wind
probably thats why blizz logic doesnt give us more utility
vivid vessel
if i ever see a rogue just spam cheap shot on a pack
im kicking that mf out of the grp
manic quartz
Bros playing a reckful movie in m+
vivid vessel
ok but
bright lodge
Yeah but it means with flat profile dmg specs
I got it. With flat you are always at your peak. Where others can afford downtime outside of cds
wintry solar
and if we use this on pull we can 10% increase damage in 3+ targets
I low-key run this sometimes to make me feel like a rogue again
bright lodge
Do sub rogue gain full cp if their first cast in dance is cheapshot?
tropic zephyr
Nice we actually have crowd control
leaden sonnet
Do sub rogue gain full cp if their first cast in dance is cheapshot?
Yes but it doesnt proc unseen blade so
pliant wind
no joke we should have a "support" talent that our cheapshot hits like 3 targets or something that would be very good tbh
not that blind shit
mighty pivot
if only there was a way for kidney to be aoe 
pliant wind
kidney or cheapshot idc just more targets haha
vivid vessel
no joke we should have a "support" talent that our cheapshot hits like 3 targets...
that would be terrible
target capped ccs
are so fucking cringe
bright lodge
They are doing less kicks next season, so we might not need that many ccs
vivid vessel
oh im in a pack of 10 mobs and these 2 guys are casting and i wanna stop them
vivid vessel
'but i have to target them ???
whats the point
of it being aoe
then
if its not aoe
i would rather not
mighty pivot
random and original thought - a talent to increase kidney's CD and reduce duration and make it aoe. Totally original idea never done before
vivid vessel
that doesnt exist
pliant wind
fuk zac tell blizz that we need a aoe blind cant get canceled, 18s stun
vivid vessel
ye
craggy kelp
Or hear me out
pliant wind
oh, dmg reduce stun blind duration instead instant cancel
proper bear
Wtb rogu buff
dim widget
id rather take aoe kidney or cheap instead of aoe blind, atleast then we could hit mechs
craggy kelp
They actually design mobs with mechanics that don’t inherently devolve into stop/kick rotations
mighty pivot
if that's the issue they can just make mechs blindable
it makes 0 sense that they are not anyway
dim widget
we literally throwing dust in the gears
they should just instantly die
aoe one shot
pliant wind
Distract now blinds too
mighty pivot
like yeah in the ancient times undead were immune to bleed and all kinds of shit but this is no longer the case
pliant wind
so we have double aoe interrupts
bright lodge
I’d argue against aoe stops. Everyone got some and look where it got us? 10casters every pack
dim widget
i mean that be ideal yes
mighty pivot
you already commit way more with a kidney shot anyway because it's a finisher. For other specs it's just a single gcd with no other secondary cost
pliant wind
i would rather that st ccs dont share a dr with aoe ccs
oh yeah yep
thats a good one
mighty pivot
they did say they want to make DR more visible but I doubt they will manage to do that obvious between many nameplates
pliant wind
stopping always a caster for 6
or more
in my last m+ i did this season i stopped using cheapshot or kidney coz instead 6-7s it was 1.5s :>
mighty pivot
just kidney in your subterfuge window to make it full duration
wintry solar
Cap the cp to 12 so we can send a 5cp kidney and still have 7 left over
mighty pivot
cap them to 100 and allow prestacking
wintry solar
Remove combo points
mighty pivot
remove combo points remove energy, make rogue garen
long barn
@vivid vessel - did you have 3 phases on your 20 rook for last boss?
wintry solar
These are jokes Zac, I don't actually hate combo points
mighty pivot
poopoo and his horrible takes
wintry solar
<a:classic:1242298584070881370> poopoo and his horrible takes
You literally said they should make outlaw a CD spec
wintry solar
C deez nutz
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> - did you have 3 phases on your 20 rook for last boss?
as outlaw ?
or sub
long barn
Yea
mighty pivot
garen's spin is very similar to new KS
long barn
Outlaw
wintry solar
Gottem
long barn
Lawl
vivid vessel
you have to make sure to get to last boss with a lot of time
like 6min 30
if you wanna do it as outlaw
long barn
Yea. The team wants me to go sub for this fight 🥸
mighty pivot
not for long
mighty pivot
me when I know that rookery's last boss, kujo, and sparkflux are all gone in less than 2 weeks 
vivid vessel
sub makes the boss 1min30 faster basically
long barn
Ok cool thanks
vivid vessel
so ye
if you get to last boss with 6min/6min30
you can do it as outlaw
toherwsie
no point even trying
Maybe you have a diff comp tho idk
long barn
Nah same comp
They want to try to line up the feral dps with sub
And I don’t have magnet and I think grinder still doesn’t hit it but I haven’t verified so I’ll need to figure that out
vivid vessel
They want to try to line up the feral dps with sub
Feral is 2 min
Sub is 1mib 30
Our feral cd first phase and third
And we phase in 1min 30
In 20
long barn
K
vivid vessel
In 21 what we did is 2 min phases
You can also do that if you want but you need 1 more minute basically
It's safer if you have the time
long barn
Damn. 7 mins at boss
vivid vessel
Ye
long barn
Yikes
vivid vessel
Basically
long barn
I don’t think we are at 6 min tbh
Maybe not far off. I’ll have to check
Is there anything you actually hold for burst phase as outlaw
Like do you hold double vanish or something
Pots and trinkets I get but maybe even holding KS 10 seconds
fair oak
vivid vessel
Like do you hold double vanish or something
You can but it's a bit hard
If you stop the momentum as outlaw you won't do good damage anyway
Do it's a mix of holding and not holding
So you start the phase with stuffs running
blissful elk
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
long barn
Yea
proper veldt
Abyssinian?
desert tendon
you re rng zac
vapid blaze
nice rogue changes
vague cape
Abyssinian?
Looks like it, or a somalicat that’s too young to have its mane grown
@fair oak so this is where I find you
ancient laurel
Hey, I kind of want to start learning to play outlaw, but I'm playing with like 140 ~ 170 ms ping, would that matter much in trying to learn the spec?
vivid vessel
no not really
ancient laurel
no not really
do you have any tips on getting started other than reading the outlaw faq rotations guide?
prisma vessel
no not really
have you tested HO on PTR? i only tested KiR and was wondering if there was a big difference in DPS between the two from tests but i got nothing on HO 😦
and yes i know it can all change
latent oak
zac is number 1 ho hater
covert kestrel
And all signs point to the gap widening pretty significantly again once ho loses this tier set
prisma vessel
kk then ill stick with KIR
covert kestrel
do you have any tips on getting started other than reading the outlaw faq rotati...
Just gotta practice, outlaw is probably one of the specs that needs the most amount of muscle memory for reacting to things properly and quickly
ancient laurel
yea, i was doing some dummy practice, and I dunno man, I'm like doing 1.x m dps with like 680 gear on ST and i wasn't sure where I was fucking up
covert kestrel
Rotational mistakes which seem small can really compound on outlaw and mess with your adr uptime which is the key component of the spec. Especially if you're playing KiR, properly using builders can be make or break for it.
ancient laurel
so if I want to learn outlaw for next tier, might as well do KIR right?
radiant mural
any specs to try on PTR that differ from current KIR+fatebound? really not liking this damage breakdown... so much from the new cloak
red zinc
any specs to try on PTR that differ from current KIR+fatebound? really not likin...
Seems too high
Even with the buffs
ancient laurel
Rotational mistakes which seem small can really compound on outlaw and mess with...
if I'm doing like 5m dummy, what is the adr uptime I should be aiming for?
vague cape
https://tenor.com/view/cat-magic-cat-go-bye-gif-21671929
bozo pressed vanish and no bte
vivid vessel
have you tested HO on PTR? i only tested KiR and was wondering if there was a bi...
ho
prisma vessel
ho <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
yeah i learned that late sorry xD
vivid vessel
if I'm doing like 5m dummy, what is the adr uptime I should be aiming for?
90% +
jovial dome
Zac hates hoes 😦
ancient laurel
is it high 70s or low 90s?
gaunt phoenix
90s is typical
ancient laurel
!mistakes
ornate heathBOT
Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.
gaunt phoenix
Both
real flax
Ok so basically on big pack using killing spree on full combo point will blast not only one target
but many targets
gaunt phoenix
It's the highest prio finisher outside of stealth
real flax
ahh
gaunt phoenix
Ok so basically on big pack using killing spree on full combo point will blast n...
It triggers blade flurry like every other outlaw ability
So it cleaves
real flax
It triggers blade flurry like every other outlaw ability
yes true but the attack itself its on mono ?
gaunt phoenix
Yes
gaunt phoenix
ye
real flax
however if focus only one target
thanks a lot
so also on boss
outside of BTW
on finisher its better than dispatch
or coup de grace
gaunt phoenix
Yep
prisma vessel
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
- Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
- Zac's Group Devlin
Utilities: - Combo Point Standalone
- Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
- Ace refund sound trigger
- RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
- Unseen Blade tracker
Fun: - Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
- KS Ticking damage taken
lucid sandal
I love it when there 's ptr patch notes and rogue just isn't mentioned
Truly a stealth moment
white marten
We got an indirect buff by nerfing MM, Frost DK, and Fire mage 😎
hot olive
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
jovial dome
All three still OP though. Haha
proper bear
Do we have some recent ptr build sims?
worldly shale
Damn these rogue changes fire
manic quartz
gaunt phoenix
Do we have some recent ptr build sims?
what do you want to see?
tropic zephyr
Damn these rogue changes fire
Bangers changes fr
proper bear
what do you want to see?
Just what we’re simming at for ST and dslice
upper surge
7
gaunt phoenix
Just what we’re simming at for ST and dslice
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/22AnE9ZvyQffEbWXESRcPu https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8q9mx73LMiXaFvn4V7zFoE
oh it's still using the old apl... close enough
Unyielding netherprism is probably better than it sims right there
need to add logic where you send it with vanish and good buffs
gaunt phoenix
interesting the pacemaker seems to beat the antenna in slice
while the antenna is higher stat budget
something about the more consistent proc i guess
vivid vessel
i think the antena is the one you need to pick up on the ground or smth ?
upper surge
Yes and?
gaunt phoenix
is it? gross
vivid vessel
ah ok
rotund depot
they look like the purple transmitter ones
vivid vessel
ye
rotund depot
annoyingly you can see other peoples
vivid vessel
i toguht people had to walk over them
rotund depot
they float quick-ish
gaunt phoenix
zealous plinth
<@921608341048930304> look what i got from vault
Which trinkets you run on ptr?
vivid vessel
wont tel lyou !
upper hazel
Pacemaker und Prism or?
gaunt phoenix
this one seems good everywhere https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/item=242397/sigil-of-the-cosmic-hunt?class=4&ilvl=723&spec=260
vivid vessel
Which trinkets you run on ptr?
zealous plinth
this one seems good everywhere https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/item=242397/sigil-o...
That one feels Bad on ptr though imo
gaunt phoenix
maybe you are expecting trinkets in general to be stronger than they are
proper bear
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/22AnE9ZvyQffEbWXESRcPu https://mimiro...
Thank you!
zealous plinth
Projector does like 4-5% Overall but no mainstat
covert heart
I think they don't wanna another spymaster situation where the shit was oppressingly strong
zealous plinth
btw @vivid vessel did you notice that reshi wraps does way more on Outlaw than on any other specc?^^
Like the enh and ele I played with had like 1/6th of the dmg of the cloak
gaunt phoenix
ye we like damage procs
zealous plinth
Yeah I think it triggers from BF
gaunt phoenix
nah it should be rppm like any other proc
zealous plinth
Why would we have like 500% more dmg of it than an enh then though?
gaunt phoenix
2 * haste
gaunt phoenix
Why would we have like 500% more dmg of it than an enh then though?
cuz we have 41% vers
torpid fiber
that's only 41% more tho surely
Maybe the enh just sucked
zealous plinth
It does like 6% of my overall
gaunt phoenix
idk, enhance is haste mastery spec
we are crit vers
which helps item procs a lot
zealous plinth
Blizz should def make UB trackable though 
burnt raft
Im gearing a new outlaw rogue, its me that im bad or outlaw dont have good ST dmg ( at low ilvl, im 639 but with any other character im doing 2 times more dmg than outlaw )
gaunt phoenix
our st should be fine
burnt raft
maybe i just dont understand how it works, idk but its strange
gaunt phoenix
maybe you are playing a build that requires tier and haste
burnt raft
probably, i just copypasted the top2 build XD
covert kestrel
Outlaw has strict haste breakpoints that you need to hit as well as prob being one of the hardest specs to just pick up and play due to high apm and punishing for mistakes
burnt raft
Outlaw has strict haste breakpoints that you need to hit as well as prob being o...
i know it isso punishing, but im trying to learn.. but i feel useless at bosses
pliant wind
It's the highest prio finisher outside of stealth
they shouldnt have changed that
idk why its random now
balmy topaz
It’s just next season where our ST is tank dmg
craggy quiver
Tuning seems wack atm
dim widget
It’s just next season where our ST is tank dmg
dont worry, blizz will nerf our output to fix that asap
balmy topaz
Just get rid of PC
keen belfry
Why didn’t we get buffed rn
vapid sundial
pastel anchor
Hi, I have a question: does the new Killing Spree benefit from the Blade Furry buff?
dim widget
Hi, I have a question: does the new Killing Spree benefit from the Blade Furry b...
what bf buff, afaik bf got nerfed
neat mist
balmy topaz
Why didn’t we get buffed rn
Sorry we let you done while you were on holiday 
neat mist
He just means "buff" as in Blade Flurry cleaving
pastel anchor
what bf buff, afaik bf got nerfed
when you do damage to a single target it procs your blade furry, does the new killing spree do the same?
gaunt phoenix
yeh
keen belfry
Sorry we let you done while you were on holiday <:SadgeSitSip:729845764695654451...
You guys have 6 more days, don’t disappoint
pastel anchor
and is it really worth stopping it when you're full of combo points?
gaunt phoenix
yeah, it's minimal though
pastel anchor
Ok thanks 👍
balmy topaz
You guys have 6 more days, don’t disappoint
I’ll try my best
covert heart
I did my part in sandbagging
balmy topaz
@gaunt phoenix have you started gear/trinket sims?
gaunt phoenix
Yeah
balmy topaz
How’s that going
gaunt phoenix
good thanks for asking
ashen void
hi solo i hope you have a marvelous day 
balmy topaz
none of the trinkets seem oustanding
I’m interested in the spymasters
gaunt phoenix
What's it called
gaunt phoenix
unyielding netherprism?
it's fine
not notable on outlaw and will be heavily contested i assume
gaunt phoenix
for n ow it just seems kind of normal/on par with other stuff
shy meteor
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
gaunt phoenix
There’s last boss wep
just a generic haste vers mace
balmy topaz
just a generic haste vers mace
Decent stats tho
gaunt phoenix
How much damage cloak will do for us
mighty pivot
any rogue changes today yet, or is the entire rogue dev team still hard at work to release them?
slate forge
#nochanges
mighty pivot
so glad to hear that
vivid vessel
elem got a 20% buff while simming higher than all 3 rogue specs 
mighty pivot
is the cloak only 4% even post buff?
balmy topaz
it's 4% here https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t79BAeiZWwaMK9a3m3u49z
Decent
gaunt phoenix
yes assuming it is simming correctly
mighty pivot
I guess it's more in dslice that's why it seems low
vivid vessel
gaunt phoenix
hm
unborn turtle
That’s some large cloak dam
vivid vessel
another st here
mighty pivot
holy 10% mostly ST
vivid vessel
gaunt phoenix
this is slice
vivid vessel
its split damage tho so it does lower on bosses with adds obviously
mighty pivot
I mean they did buff it to be 2,5x what it was
gaunt phoenix
either the buffs didnt go through in simc or its fucked
vivid vessel
ye it looks low
mighty pivot
either the buffs didnt go through in simc or its fucked
I did not see a pr with the spell data dump
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> why didn’t you send this
thats not boss damage
we pulled onto boss
this is boss damage
MM does z boss damage btw
just ssaying
gaunt phoenix
I did not see a pr with the spell data dump
could be this
balmy topaz
its not the worse i have done ngl
gaunt phoenix
Is cloak true split or meteor
balmy topaz
After 8% ye
vivid vessel
Is cloak true split or meteor
It's never true split solo
mighty pivot
could be this
ah I see they committed directly into the branch, it should be in then
I can see the coefficient being buffed in the diff
so if something is off it's the behaviour
red zinc
Bet Boomie sim higher than rogue
Before new buffs probably not
Unless we also simmed lower than aug
they were completely doomed apparently
mighty pivot
numbers never before seen
gaunt phoenix
can you send cloak
vivid vessel
no
gaunt phoenix
?!
mighty pivot
vivid vessel
ok ..
mighty pivot
ty github very cool
mighty pivot
yes even clicking on a filename sends you to a completely different one
vivid vessel
ah well
. # Reshii Wraps (730)
back=,id=235499,enchant_id=7403,gem_id=238041,bonus_id=12401/9893/12260
xd
gaunt phoenix
ty uwu
vivid vessel
:3
dawn talon
https://x.com/tettles/status/1948891076582146374?t=CmNMcUsxv4f1npCTnLVhiQ&s=19
tettles consistently finds a way to downplay his spec
we have to be taking notes everyone
mighty pivot
he's not wrong though look at this legendary sandbagging #outlaw message
bright crane
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
- Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
- Zac's Group Devlin
Utilities: - Combo Point Standalone
- Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
- Ace refund sound trigger
- RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
- Unseen Blade tracker
Fun: - Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
- KS Ticking damage taken
balmy topaz
The kalamazi of boomkins
bright crane
is the Luxthos edit still maintained?
mighty pivot
we need a bot command to post that warlock send buffs thumbnail
mighty pivot
is the Luxthos edit still maintained?
last version september 2024 so likely not
vivid vessel
mighty pivot
I wonder why
vivid vessel
ok tbf nothing changed
gaunt phoenix
is the cloak scaled to 710 in keys or 730 
vivid vessel
710
bright crane
anybody know how i can move the kir buff to be inline with all the other core abilities rather than on top
bright crane
big man
covert heart
@vivid vessel you do the title and thumbnail for your videos like we talked about yesterday?
vivid vessel
ye
covert heart
Perfecttt
vivid vessel
OUTLAW NEEDS GOD - SEND HELP IMEDIATELY
then in the thumbnail i put the st damage where im under tank
easy enough
covert heart
There we go and we need a wowhead article leading to that video
mighty pivot
is the proc rate similar between sim and log? It could also be that zac is cheating and proccing it more
gaunt phoenix
it's a bit hard to say
mighty pivot
guys I think my concept was misunderstood
sudden fulcrum
classic AI "art"
mighty pivot
it's flawless
bright crane
lol the luxthos one doesnt track flawless form
or its bugged and doesnt show up
ah nvm its flagged as optional/never
vivid vessel
why would you track flawless form?
vivid vessel
What are you gonna do
bright crane
nothing
bright crane
i just want the visual queue
vivid vessel
Ok
mighty pivot
What are you gonna do
press buttons harder
what if the game gave you more stacks based on the force applied to the buttons
bright crane
also how do i change the rtb buffs from having the name > showing buff timer
gaunt phoenix
i feel like
the booties
that increase the proc rate
of the cloak
are either bugged and doing it more than 50% or it doesnt work in simc correctly
the code looks right 
frail veldt
tettles consistently finds a way to downplay his spec
tettles is just a bad take factory honestly
he doesnt even know what he wants out of the spec
He just wants it to be S tier with no weakness whatsoever
if its S tier but is like middle of the pack on ST he will complain
dawn talon
adn we have to take notes bc that shit works
mighty pivot
Any nappers in chat
gaunt phoenix
mighty pivot
strong halo
anyone have a link of the PTR changes of yesterday? i cant find them on wowhead
balmy topaz
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
balmy topaz
dawn talon
look what happens when you downplay on twitter
pliant wind
cinder relic
What did people want the rogue section to be
balmy topaz
What did people want the rogue section to be
I think some ST attention
gaunt phoenix
is the proc rate similar between sim and log? It could also be that zac is cheat...
it feels like more in game #244072792948080641 message
welp
mighty pivot
so it's a bug that we don't know when or whether will be fixed
the good news is that you wear the cloak anyway I guess
covert heart
He just wants it to be S tier with no weakness whatsoever
I cant stand tettles
burnt raft
Just another question.. in ST should i use BF? and what would be my prio at st
gaunt phoenix
nah you dont bf on st
if you expect aoe later into the fight, you can prepull bf on nothing
so then bf is active by the time you get into the aoe
burnt raft
i thought it but i want to be sure ^^
cinder relic
I think some ST attention
Do you think it's fine for outlaw for a season to be this aoe build spec that kinda has weak st