My bad cook is put late sl outlaw in its entirety into the trees
#outlaw
wintry solar
gaunt phoenix
I like little windows that change gameplay
lone spear
yea same, this seems a bit out there tho
wintry solar
All of them
quaint mauve
i find it weird outlaw doesn’t have like a shooting a coin ability
frail veldt
Shouldn't need to cast it again
wintry solar
Yeah I like that
lone spear
i mean cast again is fine
wintry solar
What do you lose with a cast again?
frail veldt
A global
gaunt phoenix
Casting again gives you some agency
restive obsidian
I prefered season 1 dragonflight outlaw rogue over shadowlands tbh
then crackshot made us addicts
frail veldt
I prefered season 1 dragonflight outlaw rogue over shadowlands tbh
S1 df outlaw was pretty dull honestly
lone spear
HO was really fun first time playing with it
frail veldt
It was verrrrry basic
lone spear
i still enjoy it now
gaunt phoenix
Perhaps the cooldown would start ticking even if you didnt recast it
So you have a little extra flex time to send it when you want
quaint mauve
what if like u throw a coin over a pack and like your next btes all hit them at a 100% instead of bfs 50%
chat am i cooking
frail veldt
Perhaps the cooldown would start ticking even if you didnt recast it
So you hav...
Yeah that would be better
quaint mauve
i need that dev team slot
frail veldt
Otherwise you're just gonna always press it when the window ends anyway
lone spear
chat am i cooking
for fatebound maybe
frail veldt
So why force an extra gcd
gaunt phoenix
Yeh
lone spear
coins shouldnt be baseline thing, rtb is enough and cooler
latent oak
i think there is a universe where fatebound coin rogue is insanely cool
just not this one :(
fathom bramble
Perhaps the cooldown would start ticking even if you didnt recast it
So you hav...
the thought was 5 seconds to recast before you lose it + the cooldown starts ticking immediately on the first cast
similar to the recast on hook
wintry solar
i think there is a universe where fatebound coin rogue is insanely cool
Everything blizz does has potential but the devs don't know how to capitalize on that
They're constantly like that meme where the guy is mining and is an inch away from diamonds
lone spear
eh, i wouldnt say that as a general thing
there are really cool things in this game, its why we play it
wintry solar
Maybe not everything
frail veldt
the thought was 5 seconds to recast before you lose it + the cooldown starts tic...
Oh no
That's horrible
wintry solar
But more often than not
gaunt phoenix
Lowkey it feels like it just stems from blizz not playing outlaw enough
Its like me playing sims and adjusting outlaw based on that
wintry solar
That Valorstone change was huge
frail veldt
There's no benefit to having it be a window you could waste/lose
gaunt phoenix
Without really seeing it
frail veldt
That's exactly the kind of gameplay that you only notice when it's going wrong
Which is like how our energy issue is
That's the kinda stuff you want to avoid
You can make gameplay rewarding without having it be equally punishing
latent oak
adding burst without fucking with the gameplay flow pretty nice idea tho
lone spear
yea, i think its so crazy that IN ADR, we can run out of energy
because adr is expected to be near 100% uptime
wintry solar
Ngl I doubt we keep this uptime going into midnight
lone spear
yea, good riddance
need a change to energy economy, thats my main thing
i want to always be able to press a button
its why we play outlaw and not ass and sub
molten flicker
do you guys ever send a coup inside a crackshot/subterfuge window? i think its a mistake but im wondering just how bad it is
lone spear
im fine with ks being the one reprieve from that
molten flicker
makes sense
molten flicker
its just those weird instances where you have 2 seconds of adrenaline rush left and you have to vanish or else lose it, and you have KS/coup ready
i definitely wouldnt KS inside a crackshot window tho
gaunt phoenix
in that case i want to coup and then vanish during coup
molten flicker
yeah
gaunt phoenix
which is fine
latent oak
does coup strikes still break vanish
gaunt phoenix
yes
wintry solar
Everytime I go back and watch gameplay, sure I get bored but I do notice Outlaw had that flow to it
Idk how people watch gameplay for fun
fathom bramble
it does exist
lone spear
Everytime I go back and watch gameplay, sure I get bored but I do notice Outlaw ...
i dont usually, i was just curious this time. i cant watch like casual gaming anymore
quaint mauve
is there any use to running the talent that makes distract a smoke bomb
in uhh
the trickster tree
that sounds cool
gaunt phoenix
it was a dps loss back in dragonflight beta
fathom bramble
I just don't want to see like holding it for the perfect lineup all the time
or wouldn't want to see
gaunt phoenix
not dragonflight
fathom bramble
it's not like it'll ever exist anyway
lone spear
Everytime I go back and watch gameplay, sure I get bored but I do notice Outlaw ...
i think we can have that smooth energy while keeping crackshot, it just needs fine tuning which probs isnt gonna happen outside of expansion changes
gaunt phoenix
war within beta
wintry solar
i think we can have that smooth energy while keeping crackshot, it just needs fi...
You'd have to look at uhuh
fathom bramble
AR needs to improve energy economy by the same amount that it lowers our GCD
and then energy can be balanced around a reasonable baselinee that can be the same in both AR and outside of it
simplest way to do that is just % reduced energy cost during AR
wintry solar
No lie
fathom bramble
instead of regeen
wintry solar
Uhuh is legitimately my biggest complaint about outlaw
KS I don't really care about tbh
Nor fb
lone spear
yea im tired of the adr upkeep minigame
it had its time, it was fun for a while
time for something fresh
wintry solar
It's fine in small doses
wintry solar
time for something fresh
I suggested that and people got mad at me for being negative
Fuck em
frank finch
fathom bramble
I mean a lot of people like uhuh
lone spear
I suggested that and people got mad at me for being negative
people (guy) xdd
wintry solar
Muffin
fathom bramble
personally I think if you remove/adjust uhuh then your just targetting something that doesn't fix the problem that most people tend to cite
the solution to me is to give us even more adrenaline rush
wintry solar
I mean a lot of people like uhuh
Sure but it's execution could be better
lone spear
i disagree
frail veldt
I just don't want to see like holding it for the perfect lineup all the time
Then give a 3 second window to press it at the end
Where it stops charging
wintry solar
Like granting instead of pausing
frail veldt
But you can press it within that window
Otherwise youd get fucked if a mob moves JUST out of melee range during your global
Would feel fucking awful
fathom bramble
maybe I didn't use clear enough wording, but that is what the original idea is suppose to be
5 seconds of charging
5 seconds to recast after charging stops
lone spear
its just bad game design because there will almost always be a case
where adr falls off
and because it is now assumed u have it all the time
not having it will feel even worse
wintry solar
I don't want uhuh to be gone, I want it to work differently
Personally
It's a good idea
fathom bramble
Choice node with underhanded upper hand
Upper Hand: Spending combo points extends Adrenaline Rush and Blade flurry durations by x seconds per combo point spent. Additionally Blade flurry and Adrenaline rush cannot lose duration if you have not spent or generated combo points in the last 3 seconds
lone spear
i mean im down with a choice node, a perma adr 100% uptime angle, and a stronger 50% uptime adr
balance would be a nightmare tho
gaunt phoenix
I liked someone's suggestion way back when of vanish just straight up giving you AR for 8 seconds or w.e
wintry solar
I said that
I may not be the first to come up with it though
It's not a deep change
wintry solar
Something something no original thoughts
lone spear
I liked someone's suggestion way back when of vanish just straight up giving you...
i suppose opener crackshots w/o adr up would feel weird
but other than that seems fine
gaunt phoenix
could be breaking stealth gives AR
wintry solar
Subterfuge specifically
lone spear
ye
fathom bramble
I had a super similar suggestion
random stirrup
you would still manually cast adr on pull
fathom bramble
uhuh does what it current does, but you also gain the benefits of AR while stealthed
whether AR is active or not
lone spear
you would still manually cast adr on pull
well for dungeons and stuff yaknow
random stirrup
mm
fathom bramble
it lets it work on stealth as well as vanish without any weirdness
lone spear
i would remove the adr pausing
fathom bramble
or you could uncouple it from subterfuge entirely with AR just getting free duration from vanish
they kind of do different things
lone spear
dw im sure realz has gone through all this in his mind palace
wintry solar
Cucked by rp and intermissions
lone spear
and has found the line of best cook
wintry solar
This dude stacks mastery
wintry solar
dw im sure realz has gone through all this in his mind palace
I'm sure I'll like it
I've never disliked outlaw
In pve*
true cedar
huge mastery scaling buffs inc for outlaw i can feel it this time
thats why they are delaying it
lone spear
i swear sometimes it does
wintry solar
I still haven't had it bug out in a key again
fathom bramble
that bug can also go far higher than normal pandemics
wintry solar
Kill him
quaint mauve
popo
wintry solar
Explode him
wintry solar
You're right
This isn't me
How can I hate your mastery when I preach about how ho and kir mains should get along?
It's unbecoming
wintry solar
I'm a better man than you
quaint mauve
ur like a weird alien dude im cool with
lone spear
I'm sure I'll like it
yea, regardless i think i'll enjoy it, i just hope the feeling like we're made for a different game goes away. make downtime less punishing, if not in dps then at least in gameplay (making adr not a uptime tracker)
lone spear
i think they should buff its proc chance back to 100%
i saw solo did it and posted the sim, it was still worse than kir
but at least it would feel great gameplay wise, and can buff ambush damage or sumtin to compensate the rest of the diff
wintry solar
Just buff ambush by like 20%
lone spear
ye but now theres leeway to bring it back up
quaint mauve
My builds got cut in half for ?????
bro the whole spec is nerfed on patch release 😭
fathom bramble
what if it was over 100% 🤔
wintry solar
bro the whole spec is nerfed on patch release 😭
Yeah but I'm not gonna not play outlaw
Are you insane?
gaunt phoenix
i think HO is allowed to be slightly worse cause its easier, buffing HO to 100% would be perfectly sufficient imo
quaint mauve
you will feel like an empty shell of urself when u reroll
wintry solar
DIRECTLY ABOVE IT
lone spear
hes just tired, hes played these games before
lime lake
lone spear
we will get buffed going into raid, there will be a bug making us giga op, we will have it fixed and sit comfortably in middle of the pack
quaint mauve
the nerfs are the thorns
lime lake
there can’t be roses without thorns
wintry solar
Besides last boss
quaint mauve
i’m playing sub in raid
quaint mauve
https://heirloomroses.com/blogs/all-about-roses/thornless-roses
fake roses
wintry solar
I don't dig void stuff
lone spear
i think ill get sick of it going into midnight
but for now its still cool
nexus king is sick
wintry solar
They'll probably throw in a crazy theme one patch like they did with undermine
lime lake
nexus king salad bar seems fun
im kind of looking forward to the raid
at least the theme is cooler than just goblin ghetto
lone spear
since ass plays the exact same as always and is probs playing deathstalker
i have that as backup incase outlaw is legit feeding
gaunt phoenix
m*ge
wintry solar
I get shit in the dk discord for playing rogue, I get it.
lone spear
mage (derogatory)
quaint mauve
mage (derogatory)
geniunely felt like he called me a slur
quaint mauve
yeah but i’m not average
bro i had a mage die in a +2 15 times
😭
when i was playing my warr
wintry solar
yeah but i’m not average
Funnily enough, they all think that.
quaint mauve
me and my friend were genuinely 50 ilvls below him and out dpsd
wintry solar
When everyone's unique, no one is.
wintry solar
im the best of the best at every class i though
Calm down ash
snow hill
Just saw patch notes. Or lack thereof. FML..
wintry solar
i think HO is allowed to be slightly worse cause its easier, buffing HO to 100% ...
Sure but this is a bit much
mighty pivot
rogue patch notes are on monday 
gaunt phoenix
Sure but this is a bit much
that's exactly what I mean. buffing HO to 100% would make it fine
currently it's not fine
wintry solar
I replied to that in my mind earlier and thought I did it irl
I'm not entirely sure what it being at 80% accomplished
quaint mauve
Set sail for better days
i’ll sail outlaw through the eye of the storm
wintry solar
L battleground
gaunt phoenix
80% was a good nerf back in ye old dragonflight days
gaunt phoenix
they are allowed to lower resources
wintry solar
It do be having a lot of resources
lone spear
HO felt fine after the change, but kir was the go to iirc
mighty pivot
first time you're not wrong
wintry solar
mighty pivot
I did 
now I bedge because it's 05:00 totally worth it staying up for fridge.gif
wintry solar
Okay good
Go
I was gonna say
Before you were MEAN to me
That half of the excitement of a new expac is new toys
When you get a passive tree and a tree that wants you dead on launch, it's pretty mid.
For a launch I mean
Expac is fine
mighty pivot
I always set my expectations to abysmal, that way the disappointment is less noticeable. If they feel like doing anything for midnight that's good
wintry solar
I mean
There was a recent decent outlaw cook not that long before launch
So maybe I had my expectations misplaced
I guess the new trees make it harder for that kind of stuff
quaint mauve
ima just play fb in m+
teal garnet
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
wintry solar
ima just play fb in m+
Y
wintry solar
Based tbh
I fuck with it
I'll probably play without ghostly in M+
And just take the L
wintry solar
1fth was fun at first
I can't keep playing the same thing, gets boring.
That's why I had like 6 builds this season
quaint mauve
listening to punchmade dev gave me a dps buff
wintry solar
There's a legend that goes
If you crackshot during the freebird solo, you'll have infinite ace procs.
sonic locust
Is dispatch higher priority than slice and dice because of cut to the chase? If not, why?
vague cape
It is
Never press SnD unless you’re deliberately doing it for a specific reason
And there’s not that many reasons to ever press it
sonic locust
Alright cool
Thank you for the answer
wintry solar
Maybe the future is energy free
gaunt phoenix
vague cape
Jokes aside genuinely could be an angle
Unlike the other rogue specs there’s no real good opportunity for downtime on this spec
vague cape
The issue atm is that
Going out of energy is just bad rng
Not really tied to much else
vague cape
Think about it like this, energy is there to act as our pseudo gcd limiter, it does this effectively for both other specs with saturation or overflow of resources and starvation in and out of cds
There is a direct link between how energy behaves and your gameplay, specifically cds make it quite different
There’s situations like on mugzee where I can pool energy and amp poison stacks for add spawns to have a ton of energy while it’s up, I can play with energy - similar kinda case for sub but shadow techniques instead takes prio
You’ll notice outlaw has none of this, your energy will be fine until you hit a steak of no multi strike SS
And then ur like welp it all slows down
Tl;dr - energy provides no gameplay for outlaw, no real reward either only a punishment for bad gameplay or rng or both
wintry solar
That'll happen when you nerf energy regen out of adr
gaunt phoenix
It's a bottleneck resource so it influences talents and such
ideally energy is affected by poor gameplay rather than getting turbo fucked by rng
longstanding issue that will probably never change
vague cape
I like energy in general
Just not on outlaw
It’s one of these things that can only be a problem
wintry solar
When energy is in a good spot, it gives you something to think about outside of being a high apm button masher
vague cape
Agreed, the way crackshot has played out though
wintry solar
Uhuh
vague cape
wintry solar
Unless you mean the trifecta
vague cape
Insane pun if you meant it
wintry solar
I did
wintry solar
Unless you mean the trifecta
Ace, crackshot, and uhuh
vague cape
I’m happy with the spec as is despite the issues
wintry solar
And it'll probably be frowned upon more than likely
I like it but current uhuh just annoys me
vague cape
I just hope they don’t turbocook some awkward dmg window shit
Best thing they could do is try to make the tree more robust in terms of capstone choice
wintry solar
Crackshot honestly feels like the only one that matters in terms of power
vague cape
Gsw has been dead forever, uhuh and crackshot aren’t really a choice -
Kir and HO are a good example of what I’d like crackshot to be
In terms of I can pick or avoid this and I’m not -20/30% dps
wintry solar
Fr
vague cape
Iirc dropping crackshot was very painful
wintry solar
Ye
vague cape
I love crackshot but I’ve also seen a lot of ex-rogues who dropped the spec when crackshot hit
wintry solar
A lot did yeah
wintry solar
Yeah I can see that
There's no way gsw isn't meant to be there temporarily
It's aged so bad
Nice reliable dmg boost that was pretty good to an ultra dead talent
Shame
vague cape
I want more shit like vanish for OL aka CDs we have a degree of control over
dawn talon
ideally energy is affected by poor gameplay rather than getting turbo fucked by ...
make bt a relevant roll to have uptime on
vague cape
Now you mention it
wintry solar
We also had blade rush in the past
vague cape
They could just rework like 4 of the 6 rolls
vague cape
Grand melee, the crit one, energy are all hella meh
And I’m not talking power, moreso gameplay
Crackshot / ace has caused bte to be tuned so that we don’t even look at the crit buff before sending like we used to
wintry solar
You really hit me with the water is wet take
vague cape
Maybe they could make it bandits guile to give us something to play around
Xd
Bro it’s 6 am, I just woke up and started getting baked - there’s gonna be some dumb comments from me
wintry solar
Maybe they could make it bandits guile to give us something to play around
I believe it
I wonder if they'll ever rename killing spree
vague cape
Ok here’s the actual cook
They won’t change mastery bc we can’t have 82% of the playerbase unable to read the mastery 
Can’t take away zac’s left hand
(Yes idk why I know a lot of French OL players)
wintry solar
There are definitely outlaws out there that think the mastery enable opp procs
brisk spear
Would be cool if it affected SS proc rate
Mastery haste stacking auto attacking outlaw rogue
Best timeline
vague cape
Mastery haste stacking auto attacking outlaw rogue
So a juiced acro?
brisk spear
Giga juiced
vague cape
Wouldn’t mind that but surely they can do more with it
wintry solar
I think the only thing that'd make me not play outlaw is if for some reason blizzard actually made it a ranged spec
That gets suggested every day
wintry solar
How?
vague cape
You familiar with sv hunter the last 2 expacs?
wintry solar
Yeah
vague cape
Or beyond even but I’ve active played it since sl s1
wintry solar
I've played it since bfa
vague cape
It can be tuned to be doing more dmg than the other specs
And still this shadow of it being melee in a ranged class is there
Sub and sin would see the same treatment if OL went ranged
wintry solar
No
It'd be the opposite
Outlaw/combat as been melee since forever
And turning it ranged
vague cape
You’d alienate the playerbase for sure
wintry solar
Would make outlaw the stepchild
Like survival, outlaw wouldn't be able to take advantage of legendaries made for the class
vague cape
Regardless there’s a significant anti-melee bias whenever the choice is given
Look at feral
vague cape
Either way you get my point
wintry solar
Yeah
vague cape
The melee spec can do more dmg and still not be brought
And it creates resentment between players
wintry solar
Boomie is generally just better equipped
vague cape
A lot of hunters HATE sv
A lot of boomies hate feral
You make OL ranged and sin and sub will hate it since gg ur raidspots gone play OL or no raidspot
wintry solar
Well
vague cape
You can see it in sv having so few myth gally logs
wintry solar
Surv gets a lot of its hate because it's a melee spec in a ranged class
wintry solar
Assa and Sub will be fine because it's the same thing but vice versa
Also this'll never happen anyway
vague cape
Surv gets a lot of its hate because it's a melee spec in a ranged class
Of all the melee sv is the least melee “melee” by far even
It’s basically ranged
wintry solar
You think the average player is smart enough to know that
hasty warren
Hi pirates
wintry solar
Hello
vague cape
Yarr
hasty warren
long time no see popo
wintry solar
I concur
vague cape
I wonder what makes enh so resistant to the melee tax
It used to be windfury totem
I guess ele’s dmg profile is suspicious at best atm
wintry solar
hasty warren
average outlaw pov
wintry solar
Outlaw should get the Helicopter from dastardly duos reskinned into a pirate ship
I will die on this hill
Iykyk
vague cape
I think I preferred the generic thug brawler dirty fighter throw a brick-style outplay
Outlaw
To the pirate thematic
wintry solar
Well that didn't work out did it
stuck sparrow
Of all the melee sv is the least melee “melee” by far even
ret paladin
wintry solar
Ooo yeah
vague cape
ret paladin
Ret loses more playing from range
Half their HP gen is autos
And ret is 20y ranged not the whole 40
wintry solar
You just said ranged
stuck sparrow
i mean dragon is 25
wintry solar
Yeah
hasty warren
isn't survival 40y range with eagle thing ?
vague cape
Those are all the ranged melee xd
wintry solar
isn't survival 40y range with eagle thing ?
Ye
vague cape
isn't survival 40y range with eagle thing ?
40y on everything except bite and flanking / fote/ butchery
And aspect of the eagle makes bite ranged for like 10s every 60
wintry solar
That and unholy
The day we can apply wounds at range will be the day
vague cape
Lines up with gally run away for example
wintry solar
Doesn't exist
vague cape
Carve = butchery
wintry solar
It gone
vague cape
And butchery is choice node with flanking and we take flanking in raid, 30s cd
ATM I never take butchery in keys even
vague cape
Bombs, exp shot, animals (bear / boar)
Top dmg tends to be bite bc of tier set and hog
hasty warren
oh y exp shot is on sv now
wintry solar
It's a gun too
vague cape
Yep it’s pretty strong and bomb can reset it
hasty warren
Yep it’s pretty strong and bomb can reset it
wth
vague cape
Recent buffs helped out a bunch
hasty warren
idk
vague cape
Fast gcd capped spec with multiple resources, hella mobility range and tankiness
hasty warren
it look like outlaw but cheap ver
vague cape
it look like outlaw but cheap ver
It’s got a much higher quality mastery
stuck sparrow
thats not saying much
vague cape
Outlaw would commit atrocities for sv’s mastery
stuck sparrow
thats like saying british food is better than eating turd
vague cape
Low-key sv mastery point for point is in contention for strongest mastery ingame atm
hasty warren
It’s got a much higher quality mastery
humm maybe wanna give it one more chance, I haven't play it since SL I think
wintry solar
Not really
vague cape
It gives SO MUCH %dmg amp for so little rating
hasty warren
maybe df
wintry solar
We're already tanky and it's another % dmg increase
wintry solar
I love chucking bombs!
vague cape
meme bomba season
Yep, wildfire cluster was op the whole expac
hasty warren
but fun
wintry solar
Wish outlaw had an explosive
hasty warren
sl s3 was fire
vague cape
I didn’t play s3/4 sadly
hasty warren
outlaw shadows dust still my pref build
vague cape
Picked the one season sv is broken to not play xd
hasty warren
Picked the one season sv is broken to not play xd
sad 
vague cape
Tbf it’s been pretty strong a few times since
Df s1 sv was banger boss and prio dmg
Df s3 was good
hasty warren
Venth all the way
venth necro kir spell was realy cool
vague cape
Tww s1 was also a high point
hasty warren
fuck silvarden
stuck sparrow
and legion butchery
vapid kelp
Was butchery op in legion
did infinte scale with target amount
bright crane
Hey boys
vague cape
Lmao
stuck sparrow
skorpyron
bright crane
We doomin right
wintry solar
Actually
vague cape
Nah, just yapping about melee vs ranged specs in classes
hasty warren
did datamine is good for us ?
stuck sparrow
it was technically comparable to venth gsw in s3
vague cape
I remember using dust in keys as OL
stuck sparrow
but required way more brain
hasty warren
I haven't looked at it yet
vague cape
did datamine is good for us ?
We didn’t get changed
stuck sparrow
ermm venth blunder
bright crane
Doomin re the class changes from today
stuck sparrow
why did i say gsw
hasty warren
We didn’t get changed
well at least no nerf
stuck sparrow
venthyr gsw was only pvp
hasty warren
gsw so fun in pvp
hasty warren
also the 10 ps was cool
stuck sparrow
i could have sworn venthyr was awkward as hell without blunderbuss
i played it in s1
do not recommend
wintry solar
I never played it
hasty warren
seldom ?
wintry solar
Rare
hasty warren
kk
stuck sparrow
celerity was just default lego in s1
wintry solar
I played kyrian dust and didn't see what the hype was about
stuck sparrow
you could play ma in keys ig
hasty warren
dust was realy strong in s3
vague cape
Speaking of leggos
stuck sparrow
because cov lego
vague cape
Is there one coming next patch?
hasty warren
but can't remember why
wintry solar
No
stuck sparrow
kyrian dust wasnt really a thing until ER could charge 4
wintry solar
I never did like ER
stuck sparrow
also kyrian dust was harder to play for most people than venth
because you also had to manage mfd and ghostly
hasty warren
kyrian dust wasnt really a thing until ER could charge 4
oh y ure right
vague cape
I remember being stuck on kyrian for a week by mistake
hasty warren
MfD by beloved
vague cape
Was actually really fun for sub
hasty warren
mfd necrolrod
real
wintry solar
Intentionally spending a finisher at 2 cp was fuckin stupid tbh
hasty warren
I was play s1 and s2 with necro
wintry solar
mfd necrolrod
That's a good one
thorn river
Wtf where rogue buffs 😮
stuck sparrow
spiteful week was free pad
hasty warren
so fun in mm+
hasty warren
explaining to my group why im boxing shades
wintry solar
I played night fae celerity season 1
stuck sparrow
nah you sent evasion
vague cape
vague cape
Ye I remember spamming mfd dispatch on a ton of dying shades for cdr
hasty warren
crackhead gameplay
vague cape
Cool button, may it rest in peace with dreadblades 😔
wintry solar
Yeahhhh
stuck sparrow
wdym dreadblades still exists
wintry solar
Idc what people say, I love db
hasty warren
dreadblade was meh honnesly
wintry solar
wdym dreadblades still exists
Shut
hasty warren
the feeling was weird
stuck sparrow
im gonna be real
wintry solar
Yeah you didn't like it
stuck sparrow
as soon as i saw they made it count on restless blades
i was counting the days
till they took it out back
stuck sparrow
db prepatch build
wintry solar
Depletion
hasty warren
why fth ?
stuck sparrow
the biggest shortcoming of that season
wintry solar
Pending investigation
stuck sparrow
was outlaw being target capped on motes
and not being able to really abuse xymox cache
as an aoe trinket
tulip quarry
Target cap appeared by the end of bfa
tulip quarry
On mop bf was a stance
stuck sparrow
off my class
hasty warren
Target cap appeared by the end of bfa
right when I started playing 
wintry solar
Bfa outlaw was great
hasty warren
can't wait for bfa classic
wintry solar
Not sl but pretty good in its own right
stuck sparrow
uhh
hasty warren
That hasn’t been replicated since
s1 df was great too
stuck sparrow
legion tos sub
hasty warren
on the first weeks
stuck sparrow
was pretty nasty too
hasty warren
No one cares about sub
merited
wintry solar
And LoL players
hasty warren
Idk what this means
sub is not cool
stuck sparrow
sin takes everything
wintry solar
And the
stuck sparrow
xd
slender light
what build should I do for m+ hidden opportunity or keep it rolling?
wintry solar
Keep it Rolling
slender light
archon is different than wowhead's
stuck sparrow
my hot take is sin and sub never needed acro
frail veldt
for current m+
wintry solar
Season ends very soon
hasty warren
what build should I do for m+ hidden opportunity or keep it rolling?
the one u like
slender light
so with keep it rolling I NEVER use ambush right?
naive river
For next season kir
frail veldt
so with keep it rolling I NEVER use ambush right?
correct
hasty warren
so with keep it rolling I NEVER use ambush right?
y
slender light
im still new to outlaw so idk the feel differences
vague cape
what build should I do for m+ hidden opportunity or keep it rolling?
Both are playable and v similar dmg
wintry solar
KiR is ahead next season.
slender light
which is "easier"
vague cape
Pick the one you prefer
wintry solar
So just get used to kir
stuck sparrow
the kir edging game is fun
frail veldt
but tbh HO non gs build plays a lot better and more smoothly than KiR 1pt fth which is the m+ high end build
hasty warren
which is "easier"
ho
vague cape
Most people say HO is easier, I find kir comfier for me
slender light
can u gimme a build
wintry solar
Enjoy it while you can
frail veldt
CQQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAM2mZgZmZYGDzwMmZMzMmZmWmxsMDAAAAAA22mZmhZmxCsMLDAAAAzMDYwsNbmZmRzMbMLssNtwmB
this build
@slender light
slender light
ty!
the pins were pretty full of PTR stuff I had to scroll a while
thanks yall tho!
hasty warren
Have fun
frail veldt
yeah pins will have "bulletins" i.e. pins
vague cape
Np, mew’s answer is useful
frail veldt
like most up to date info on recent questions
wintry solar
Np, mew’s answer is useful
For about 2 weeks
naive river
ho is more fun to me.
wintry solar
Well if he's new it doesn't matter
frail veldt
For about 2 weeks
dont worry solo will be ready to update everything when patch drops lol
hasty warren
btw when will the faq get update for s3 ?
frail veldt
probably as soon as it drops or very soon after
solo has already been cooking the builds for S3
gaunt phoenix
around release
frail veldt
were going back to LD
probably have some rotational changes as a result
HO no longer plays supercharger
etc etc
hasty warren
k ty for your work
naive river
Next season kir is doing a lot better or sorta better?
vague cape
HO no longer plays supercharger
Sadge
hasty warren
around release
Hi solo
frail veldt
but S3 itll be harder to swap between HO and KiR I think
vague cape
Hi solo
I thought you were making some cerebral comment about how solo having pins ready to release is some kind of hidden opportunity
frail veldt
well youll have to gear for KiR if you want to play HO and just accept you arent geared optimally for HO
hasty warren
I hope kir trixkster will stay fun
frail veldt
but I think with how far we are into drs, haste isnt even that bad even though we run vigor as HO
naive river
Is outlaw screwed next season? lol I’ve seen a lot of doom on the forums
wintry solar
Don't read the forums
frail veldt
forum andys are literal bottom barrel players
hasty warren
I thought you were making some cerebral comment about how solo having pins ready...
No I just have fat fingers
frail veldt
most of them dont even play the spec
gaunt phoenix
just some tuning concerns
tender wedge
outlaw is doomed in the sense that if you're not meta you're doomed
frail veldt
Tuning is so volatile at the start of the season
so theres really no reason to dwell on it
stuck sparrow
wgeres the surfboard emotes
dawn talon
forum andys are literal bottom barrel players
r/wow is bottom of the barrel players
vague cape
When was OL last meta even
dawn talon
the forums don't even play
stuck sparrow
Tuning is so volatile at the start of the season
another 10% to assassination
frail veldt
the forums get spammed by "combat rogue" players who were top dps in their wotlk guild
tender wedge
outlaw has done world first keys this very season lol
hasty warren
forum andys are literal bottom barrel players
I saw reddit posts so hilarius
gaunt phoenix
For m+ arguably s3 df no?
tender wedge
but unarguable meta, probably s3 DF
dawn talon
the forums get spammed by "combat rogue" players who were top dps in their wotlk...
they can't quite remember the guild or the realm though
stuck sparrow
hey mewo uncs have to spend their retirement hours somehow
glass mortar
looks worse in m+ next season then it is this season
dawn talon
what a shame
frail veldt
Yeah outlaw was def meta in S3 DF
glass mortar
outlaw is very strong this season
wintry solar
wgeres the surfboard emotes
Outlaw is held back by roll the bones rng
👍
🏄 🏄♀️
vague cape
For m+ arguably s3 df no?
You could argue it, wasn’t true meta iirc it was caster Aug comp
frail veldt
outlaw is strong now but it took a while for people to realize and its def not "meta" cuz it doesnt easily fit in the meta comps
so you have to play a whole off meta comp
to support outlaw
naive river
Ok. Yea I switched sub at the start of last season because I saw all the hype from it and kept telling myself I liked outlaw and it took forever to switch my gear back over. Ima just stay outlaw and ride it out.
frail veldt
compared to in DF S3
stuck sparrow
im gonna be honest
frail veldt
you could just party up with DH/Disc/Mage/Ret and ti was fine
or even double outlaw
it didnt matter
DH carried that season so hard
stuck sparrow
i geared sin first this season because i didnt believe the sub hype
frail veldt
the rest of the team was just "can you survive the 1 shot checks"
S3 DF was a very "defensives" selective meta
vague cape
i geared sin first this season because i didnt believe the sub hype
Same, played sin til it got buffed
tender wedge
i geared sin first this season because i didnt believe the sub hype
i went sub --> sin --> outlaw --> sin --> outlaw lol
gaunt phoenix
In raid the last time outlaw was 'meta' was... castle nathria?
vague cape
Was doing well before the buffs too
naive river
I really like outlaw and sub I’ve always hated sin.
frail veldt
right now isnt very much that way so the meta selects for group buffs and aoe burst damage checks
vague cape
In raid the last time outlaw was 'meta' was... castle nathria?
Same case as before, mighta been the spec of choice but the entire class wasn’t played
frail veldt
In raid the last time outlaw was 'meta' was... castle nathria?
yeah according to guy but I dont think outlaw was even used in RWF
so arguably wasnt "meta"
tender wedge
In raid the last time outlaw was 'meta' was... castle nathria?
was it even then? i don't know if outlaw has ever been THE rogue spec to take
stuck sparrow
weran forgot bfa
glass mortar
im talking post cap
hasty warren
Ok. Yea I switched sub at the start of last season because I saw all the hype fr...
play what is the more fun for you my dude
frail veldt
even when its meta
frail veldt
Ok. Yea I switched sub at the start of last season because I saw all the hype fr...
outlaw is misery if you dont like it
stuck sparrow
bfa was when every fotm rat made a rogue
glass mortar
yup
stuck sparrow
and did tank dam
dawn talon
yeah outlaw is just a low pop spec
sv had rerollers when it was meta (tho it was obv way more of an outlier)
frail veldt
the spec requires too much effort to be worth fotming
glass mortar
ever since the cappening we are fotm proof
frail veldt
sv had rerollers when it was meta (tho it was obv way more of an outlier)
well pressing wildfire bomb isnt that hard
naive river
Remember when the monk/dh buff first was coming out and the monk one was on rogue first then they changed it to monk. I remember almost having a raid buff.
dawn talon
i think it's kinda anomalous how reluctant people are to reroll onto rogue
glass mortar
even in a season like this when outlaw is super high tuned
frail veldt
at least if youre talking about in SL
dawn talon
even when it's assa
frail veldt
surv was brain off
tender wedge
outlaw is a spec that you try find any reason to play because you love it but sometimes you just have to play one of the dumb dagger specs for usual reasons
until farm
naive river
I’m just staying outlaw
wintry solar
I can't play assa anymore
frail veldt
you do you boo
gaunt phoenix
outlaw last in rwf was aberrus i think
wintry solar
I just sit there and wait for something to happen and I'm somehow popping off
dawn talon
assa is difficult to make myself play for sure
tender wedge
i don't dislike it but it's definitely settling
dawn talon
just give me a sub tier
naive river
Sin is boring at least sub has the big setup that feels cool
vague cape
outlaw is a spec that you try find any reason to play because you love it but so...
Thankfully I enjoy both dagger specs too
vague cape
But yeah I feel bad for outlaw mains
glass mortar
always just ok
stuck sparrow
aint no way you called sub big setup
wintry solar
The only time sub is fun is during shadowblades
vague cape
specs niche is never being good on a last boss
Trueeeeeeee
stuck sparrow
in current iteration
dawn talon
The only time sub is fun is during shadowblades
i don't mind basically afking between cds
vague cape
Fyrakk outlaw 80 pulls can confirm
vague cape
It would be too op
stuck sparrow
i mean sub should be a burst spec
vague cape
Maybe 1 min blades?
wintry solar
It would be too op
I literally do not care
vague cape
Would feel amazing
dawn talon
i want a 45s spec
wintry solar
Troo
dawn talon
Shattering frost atm
i want a 45s spec with gameplay
naive river
Subs dmg on a boss is literally did it die right after I got to use cds again or right before. 99 parse or 0 parse
wintry solar
Hating on classes makes me feel better about myself
wintry solar
havoc is probably harder than sin
Not a high bar
vague cape
i want a 45s spec with gameplay
What do you mean my autos causing icy explosions and like 40% of my dps being auto swings isn’t gameplay?
dawn talon
havoc is fun but it makes me miss df season 3 havoc
stuck sparrow
well the floor is ret paladin
frail veldt
havoc is probably harder than sin
Sins got a lot going on in m+
wintry solar
Bm
frail veldt
In raid sin is a lot different
gaunt phoenix
Sin in aoe is fairly nuanced
stuck sparrow
havoc is fun but it makes me miss df season 3 havoc
s1 felscarred was kind of this
stuck sparrow
the resets?
dawn talon
yeah
stuck sparrow
i didnt mind
vague cape
Key sin
naive river
Key sin is trying to get your group to let you stealth
vague cape
Enh is really fun
dawn talon
enhance is fun but i rly hate needing externals
it's a thing i dislike about dh aswell
stuck sparrow
dh is a bit more self sufficient
dawn talon
ye with dh it's
hasty warren
Hating on classes makes me feel better about myself
least toxic sentence of the day
dawn talon
either you can live it and it's comfy
or you cannot live it at all w/o an external
there's a lot less suspicious af situations than with enhance
stuck sparrow
well dh is good vs rot damage
dawn talon
yea
stuck sparrow
bad vs big hits
wintry solar
least toxic sentence of the day
Some people choose to be lower on the totem pole by playing ret and bm
dawn talon
shaman just Dies to everything
wintry solar
That's not my fault
glass mortar
shamans arguably the squishied class left in the game
hunters glowup put them solidly ahead
rogue vs shaman is like night and day ngl
vague cape
shamans arguably the squishied class left in the game
Shaman is ok
glass mortar
everything is ok
vague cape
Are notably squishy imo
glass mortar
feral is uber tanky
hasty warren
Some people choose to be lower on the totem pole by playing ret and bm
bm players are not real
vague cape
Feral has si
stuck sparrow
if you wanna payphone play dk
dawn talon
maybe boomkin
moonkin is squishy because the players are just
stuck sparrow
or mage
vague cape
So ye im talking boomie
dawn talon
so fucking greedy
stuck sparrow
moonkin players are just stupid
glass mortar
get cooked
hasty warren
That and priest
priest have more def than sham honnesly
dawn talon
moonkin players legit just refuse to do anything
stuck sparrow
priests have more defensives until you ask them to move