outlaw

[vivid vessel]

i hate pc

[vapid blaze]

bf buff?
so we can pad in peace

[vivid vessel]

what a shit ass talent

[balmy topaz]

Pc is wank

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/its-over-its-genuinely-over-seal-sad-seal-breaking-news-gif-243396507301445550

[balmy topaz]

Idk who thought pc was a good idea

[vivid vessel]

pc just tuned down our aoe

for free

so funny actually

[glass mortar]

wtf

woah now

i been #1 pc hater since day 1

u guys are all phonies

[vivid vessel]

no

[glass mortar]

jumping on the train

[vivid vessel]

i hated on pc forever

[glass mortar]

when its too late

and its already running us over

enjoy the PC tax

[balmy topaz]

It's been over

since S1

[vivid vessel]

i find it kind of crazy how people dont realize how much worse outlaw is in s3 than s2 but idk

[glass mortar]

well they havent really played it?

what do u expect

all they have is ua nd ross yapping at each other almost daily for the last month

[daring oxide]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1374816516414898248/killin_pee.gif

[glass mortar]

with u saying its so joever and zeross saying we are so back

[balmy topaz]

And most of it is fuckin killingspree

[vital wave]

at least, we won't die from KS anymore

[vivid vessel]

have you seen the latest

[glass mortar]

what latest

did u 2 fight again

[vivid vessel]

no

[balmy topaz]

O no

[wintry solar]

https://tenor.com/view/coin-toss-coin-toss-gif-5017733

[vivid vessel]

sub basically better

[daring oxide]

latest episode of zac ross yap night

[crude flower]

God this is amazing

[wintry solar]

Which way western man?

[vivid vessel]

aka ross was wrong all this time

[crude flower]

Killing spree moments and tanks dying frame 1 are the two best wow clips

[vivid vessel]

but we all knew so

[vital wave]

@zac when will you stream Sub in M+ on PTR ? 👀

[vivid vessel]

Never

[vapid sundial]

zac wants to play outlaw

not sub

smh

[keen belfry]

Hey that’s me!

[fervent garden]

it's a wang!

[white marten]

Zac, will you stream frost dk in m+ ?

[pliant wind]

I realized dont worry

And im sad

But what can we do?

[glass mortar]

wait till 12.0 when actual rogue changes hit

[white marten]

Play MoP where Outlaw rogue shined

[glass mortar]

unfortunatly itll probably be bigger changes then zac wants and break things he liked

there was no outlaw in mop

😏

[white marten]

Dont you get smart with me!

[glass mortar]

i also wouldnt exactly say outlaw shined

u played combat in dedicated cleave or important aoe

sub was the ST blaster

[mighty pivot]

combat was peak design 👍 🏄‍♀️ 🏄‍♂️

[white marten]

Dont you get double smart with me!

[fierce mulch]

subt season?

[daring oxide]

immortalised

[daring oxide]

12.0 patch name: "Zac's mental breakdown at Midnight"

when outlaw is reworked into something else entirely

[frank finch]

This is hundo p what’s going to happen

[glass mortar]

i mean it feels like we are due for it

[white marten]

Huge midnight rogue rework bois

[glass mortar]

theres a very strong perception of rogues in the game community as the "weird janky class"

and we got crazily minimal changes this whole expac

[daring oxide]

hey weran

be grateful

we had a huge rework on killing spree

[glass mortar]

[daring oxide]

checkbox ticked

[glass mortar]

did we wtf where

[daring oxide]

make a rogue change

done

[frank finch]

Ever since ion used is as an example of making the game easier it was already written

[daring oxide]

yeah

[white marten]

Buff rogues with aura. Done.

[daring oxide]

i think ion plans to send the MM hunter dev to fix outlaw

[fierce mulch]

I'm not grateful for the ks rework hude dps loss

[daring oxide]

MM Dark Ranger is absolutely insane rework

like literal perfection

[mighty pivot]

it is easier when you don't have to click a target for KS and the game just picks the target for you

[frank finch]

[white marten]

They’ll probably send the feral dev to rework rogue

[daring oxide]

what if they just delete rogue

so they dont have to deal with us + zac anymore

gain some mental health back

[white marten]

Zac is a headache in itself

[mighty pivot]

-100 subs lost

[daring oxide]

because we are so 'negative'

zac is probably the main symptom causing migraines for blizzard devs

[frank finch]

Maybe Mop release gives them some ideas of more simple days

[vivid vessel]

how

they do nothing

[white marten]

Why is Zac never happy?

They ask

[daring oxide]

i dunno how

[white marten]

After all we have given him

[daring oxide]

but i feel like outlaw is punished to get back at ya

[vivid vessel]

why should i be happy about nothing

worse than nothing

[white marten]

A net negative is technically worse than nothing

[daring oxide]

well we might get something tonight

[vivid vessel]

thats hwat i said

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/fingers-crossed-fry-billy-west-futurama-hopeful-gif-6653617192780453118

[frank finch]

Tonight

[vivid vessel]

+50% damage on ks

[white marten]

Tonight we get the rework announcement

[fervent garden]

what's tonight?

ahhh

[slate forge]

We classic #no changes

[daring oxide]

would that make u happy

[frank finch]

Bro said tonight

[white marten]

+10% aura… in Mop classic

[glass mortar]

idk we might get 1 more tuning

[daring oxide]

50% damage on ks + 25% speed up + can kick inside KS

[glass mortar]

we are still canceling kspree for dps gain

0.26% dps

[vivid vessel]

no that would make the spell worse

[glass mortar]

we can get another 10% on kspree

easy

🙂

[daring oxide]

disclaimer: 50/50

[vivid vessel]

i wanna cancel it still

its better

but they can still make ks work

so idk

[proven ocean]

hopefully they buff us but it'll be worse so i hope not

[vivid vessel]

thats what im expecting

[white marten]

KS is now a charge spell and works like Breath of Sindragosa

[daring oxide]

they got rid of the channel, made KS a single GCD?

[gaunt phoenix]

it's more for fatebound cuz fatebound would lose coins

[white marten]

Instead of pistols its now a gatling gun that drains CBs every sec

[vivid vessel]

you get me

[daring oxide]

what if each killing spree hit could flip a coin @gaunt phoenix ?

[glass mortar]

oh right even fatebound is playing new kspree

i forgor

[vivid vessel]

imagine how much prio fb loses in aoe with ks

[white marten]

Lets make like CasualAddict and ditch this popsicle stand and roll DK

[daring oxide]

wait

did CA go DK?

[white marten]

Uhdk for this season iirc

[frank finch]

Casual playing sub now tho

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/it's-over-it's-genuinely-over-trout-trout-dying-trout-it's-over-gif-4267717049801794134

[wintry solar]

you should wash your mouth out with soap

[white marten]

Combat rogue KS was the dream

[near rock]

we're probably not even nearly as loud and annoying as some of the more popular classes

[wintry solar]

sure if you had red buff

[daring oxide]

aye absolutely, i can't imagine hunter or mage discord tbh, but that makes sense since they get the most attention

[white marten]

The ret pallys are much worse than outlaw rogues despite being better designed

[daring oxide]

but its also likely they have their top devs on the popular classes too giving it more priority, probably also a thing?

[near rock]

yeah we're probably just a small blip on a sea of babyrage

[daring oxide]

i wouldn't be surprised if class population determined which classes to prioritise dev time, since it probably correlates to maximising subs

[white marten]

Everyone except arcane in the mage discord are huge doomers, even when all 3 specs are performing well

[frank finch]

Acting like you don’t already know this

[daring oxide]

i know i said it before

[near rock]

to be fair thats every spec in the game

[daring oxide]

i was told off for saying it last time though

[vivid vessel]

[daring oxide]

so i dont like openly saying that opin ion

[white marten]

Idk, outlaw is pretty tame

[daring oxide]

opinion

[near rock]

when outlaw is good you will still see a constant sea of doomerism

[daring oxide]

business wise it makes sense

[near rock]

its just normal for every spec

[wind obsidian]

ehhhh

if I played spriest I'd doom too

shit gets reworked every other patch

[glass mortar]

when outlaw is good its is 0.2% of the player population tho

[wintry solar]

go back to when that happened and put them on ignore

[glass mortar]

and when outlaw is bad its 0.1%

its a funny spec

when mage is good its 25% of the playerbase

and they still complain

[white marten]

When outlaw is good, its 0.15% of the population

[glass mortar]

feels like it could be a long time until we get a season where we had tuning as good as this one ngl

outlaw was so strong this season

look at the player pool for it tho

[vivid vessel]

2

players

not %

[tropic zephyr]

It's 25% of the player base with 10 players that actually know how to play that class

[glass mortar]

well sure thats any fotm class tho of course

mage is more punishing then most because unlike alot of popular specs, it is not passively tanky

u actually need to press ur buttons to not die

[white marten]

Honestly facts. I stay away from mage pugs. Always bottom dps

[glass mortar]

i respect that for them

[tropic zephyr]

Idk the number of keys mages bricked but goddamn

They're pros

[wind obsidian]

mages and hunters

[tropic zephyr]

At bricking

[wind obsidian]

though with hunters I find it's like 50/50

[wintry solar]

does sandbagging actually work I wonder

[wind obsidian]

worked for Warlocks in SL

[wintry solar]

but how can we tell it was actually sandbagging?

and not just another case of clueless devs

[white marten]

Rogues are the least likely to brick a key

Because nobody plays it

[glass mortar]

things not found by tcers have led to specs being overtuned for sure

really depends what u call sandbagging tho

all the cases i know of involved bugged sims or actualy oversite by spec tcers meaning even top players werent doing the optimal stuff on live until it was discovered

[wind obsidian]

iirc it was some stuff found and basically not implemented into sim work for initial projections of how destro was working/going to perform and was kept that way

[glass mortar]

like shadow priest in the start of BfA, was pretty shit at the end of the beta cycle

got big buffs so it would do ok

[wind obsidian]

I remember something about destro wildly undersimming for a while due to this in SL

[glass mortar]

then it turned out its best azerite trait had been bugged and heavily undervalued in sims

and everyone swapped to it and gained like 10% dps

and shadow ended up overtuned going into s2

but idk about cases of actual people "hiding" the optimal stuff and blizzard buffing due to that

[white marten]

Outlaw rogue buffs soon

[quaint mauve]

everytime i come in here

it’s either cope or doom

when will there be bliss and happiness

[keen belfry]

Never.

No bliss and happiness. Only piss and poopiness

[white marten]

Imagine thinking there is ever any bliss and happiness in any class discord

[wintry solar]

bliss and happiness?

no

but

indifference and acceptance?

thats possible

[white marten]

KS and Pistol shot is all we have

[mighty pivot]

void demon hunters are as happy as ever

[wintry solar]

im so glad thats not a thing

[keen belfry]

Pooopoo L take

[wintry solar]

its not a take

its an observable fact

[vivid vessel]

Idk it doesn't take much

We got nothing

We just got worse

[keen belfry]

Zac stop it

[white marten]

At least its mildly worse

[keen belfry]

You’re gonna make PooPoo mad

[wintry solar]

why would I get mad?

[glass mortar]

he said poopoo not popo

easy mistake tho

[wintry solar]

ah yeah true

my mistake

[keen belfry]

Thank you Weran

Poopoo always think it’s about Popo

Thank you delve*

[glass mortar]

ur welcome awangangganegan

[jolly geyser]

awank

[mighty pivot]

popo are you it?

[wintry solar]

this dude

yall come up with the wildest things

[white marten]

Who doesnt?

[mighty pivot]

priest players

[wintry solar]

they dont jork, they flick

big diff

[quaint mauve]

guys

what does this have to do with outlaw

[mighty pivot]

which part of all

[wintry solar]

outlaw is for big pp

so

[keen belfry]

I should swap then

[wintry solar]

it relates

yeah bye

jk

[quaint mauve]

guess im going back to priest

[wintry solar]

are you a bowl of fruit?

@mighty pivot dont copium me

[mighty pivot]

or what?

[wintry solar]

I'll cry

[mighty pivot]

well ok then

I will uncopege you

[copper owl]

Anyone able to get on? I see all realms are up, but I just get "retreiving character list" frozen screen everytime I try to log on

[wintry solar]

ty <3

broken for me too

[fervent garden]

no luck for me.

[hybrid crown]

I was able to load my character list just now

waiting to load into dornogal

[mighty pivot]

NA guys beta testing for us again

[copper owl]

Probably doesn't work for you because you're a chelsea fan

[hybrid crown]

awfully long loading screen though

[wintry solar]

its a dirty job but someones gotta do it

[mighty pivot]

[vapid blaze]

8 targets xD

[fervent garden]

Heh. Maybe. But that would be weird, as we usually are aleays winning.

[mighty pivot]

they should nerf BF another time

[vivid vessel]

Bro he is blasting ngl

10 mil in AOE is almost s1 DPS it's very respectable if you ask me

[vapid blaze]

its also
that mage and demo are just doubling him every pull

even without cd's

[vivid vessel]

Ye

I know

That's what I said

And I got told by that goblin that I was wrong

[vapid blaze]

demo 20s cd on tyrant
25mil dps

[vivid vessel]

Sub does more damage than outlaw but Im the delusional one

[ashen void]

gallywix?

[vapid blaze]

man if ds wasnt so weird
honestly would enjoy sub

[wintry solar]

whats ds

[gaunt phoenix]

sub uses ds?

Deathstalker

[wintry solar]

oh

I forget that tree exists ngl

[mighty pivot]

that's because no sane person runs ds for sub

[vivid vessel]

No

[quaint mauve]

theres no way blizz doesnt see the problem

[wintry solar]

See? Care? who knows?

[quaint mauve]

i tried talking to my friend abt this

and he said yeah bro outlaw doesnt scale well

[grim spear]

maybe sub and law should swap one hero talent

[quaint mauve]

like what

[grim spear]

ds law and fb sub

kinda feels like that would work better

[wintry solar]

when the names were announced, I was hoping outlaw would be deathstalker

[white marten]

I was hoping instead of fatebound it was gonna be Swashbuckler

[grim spear]

just talking about mechanics

lore-wise, fb still kinda fits

[vivid vessel]

Outlaw doesnt scale well (-10% bf nerf )

Me when I scale poorly

[wintry solar]

anything can fit when its brand new and marketed as "new archetypes for wow"

[north lintel]

50 Shades of coins RNG

[glass mortar]

who does fatebound fit

who is fatebound in wow the cinimatic universe

[jolly geyser]

forsen

[glass mortar]

can u think of an npc that fits this tree

[wintry solar]

its new

it doesnt have an npc

or lore

[grim spear]

When I first heard the name, I was hoping it would offer some form of 'control over fate'

[long stream]

John Fatebound

[grim spear]

aka more interaction with RtB

[glass mortar]

only fatebounders i know are those weird ethereals from SoD

there was a fatebinder guy who was bound by his fate to give us loot

thats the only fate related npcs I can recall

[mighty pivot]

it would be very fitting if they move DS to outlaw but also not change the talents so the rupture and aoe builder talents won't work at all

[glass mortar]

didnt seem very roguey to me tho

[grim spear]

But all it ended up doing was adding another RNG

and the two systems don’t interact at all

which is

shit

[glass mortar]

its w/e my problem isnt even the new fantasy they made up for us

its the laziness in the design and implementation of the tree

[sharp hinge]

can we get our aoe uncapped

i hate doing dog shit dps in keys

[glass mortar]

u get one coin and sound effect and it never changes and ur capstone does nothing and maybe it wont even proc on some fights

enjoy

[sharp hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/balling-ballin-with-my-bros-make-it-rain-basketball-gif-14158254

[grim spear]

Maybe in 12.0 they'll give us the final RNG

cards

[wintry solar]

Gambit maxing

they couldve made bounty hunters

witch hunters

cowboys

etc

but no

[vivid vessel]

and the fix is a tier set

cause these mfs were too lazy

to make it work good

baseline

[glass mortar]

w/e

that tierset will prob be baked into it next expac

assuming ghostly isnt gone

everyday i pray for ghostly death

[sharp hinge]

where can i find zacs tricks WA

[glass mortar]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[vivid vessel]

!tott

[ornate heath]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[glass mortar]

oh zacs idk

[sharp hinge]

i dont see it in the faq

[mighty pivot]

they will replace GS with BR for it

[vivid vessel]

Nuke GS

[wintry solar]

thats fine

[vivid vessel]

Dont put anything else at it's place

[wintry solar]

uncapped aoe go brr

[vivid vessel]

Like it's the kind of difficulty no one would care about being gone

[glass mortar]

mmm

remove gs, swap FtH to its place, make it a 1 pointer

[mighty pivot]

it's fine until you realise BR was simming as a dps loss even at 20 targets

[glass mortar]

delete GSW and PC

[mighty pivot]

delete all talents

[violet bison]

Im looking for anything above 80% uptime on AR right?

[wintry solar]

GSW still being in the tree is just fan service for like 3 people

[mighty pivot]

what about Riposte

[glass mortar]

80% would be low even

anything under 90% is low tbh

[violet bison]

Kk

[fair oak]

Depends on the key but usually in clean keys you'd be at 95% ish

80% is prob okay tho

[tropic zephyr]

In keys? You should strive for 95%, 90+ is ok ish

[mighty pivot]

why is epsilonee not posting kittens

[fair oak]

Sorry

[violet bison]

kk ty ty

[wintry solar]

had you not say anything, I wouldnt have remembered its existence

[loud garden]

I really thought we were getting the df s3 tierset back somehow with fatebound but I guess that was just wishful thinking at best

[mighty pivot]

you and the devs both tbh

[jolly geyser]

what was df s3 tier?

[wintry solar]

the rtb set

keeps a buff when you reroll or something idr

was cool though

[jolly geyser]

oh ye,I member

2set was some SS thing

[wintry solar]

yeah

[jolly geyser]

wow really got some sus shortened words if you talk with someone who doesnt know

[wintry solar]

like what?

[jolly geyser]

cp,ss etc

[wintry solar]

cp is a big one for sure

[loud garden]

[quaint mauve]

do NOT abbreviate combo points

[thorn river]

Colictical porrect ?

[mighty pivot]

DN

[sharp hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/merci-beaucoup-thank-you-so-much-cat-cute-beg-gif-16065906

[wintry solar]

Dungeon Naster

[vivid vessel]

Derien beaucoup

[sharp hinge]

tu es magnifique aujourd'hui Zac

[vivid vessel]

Merci le s

@gaunt phoenix ban him, talking french

[random stirrup]

Nous parlons francais? Dans mon #outlaw???

[sharp hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/prempdr-fc-mobile-fifa-gif-16778760554072111618

[quaint mauve]

i played 5 minutes of mop got bored gg

[sharp hinge]

you can play mop in retail

[mighty pivot]

crêpe

[vivid vessel]

Was mop combat or outlaw

[sharp hinge]

think it changed in legion or bfa?

[mighty pivot]

legion

[vivid vessel]

To think

Outlaw could have learned

Peaked*

[sharp hinge]

The Combat Rogue specialization was officially renamed to Outlaw in Patch 7.0.3, which was released on July 19, 2016. This was part of a major overhaul for the Rogue class coming with the Legion expansion

[vivid vessel]

This next season

But it won't

I'm so disappointed

We keep being almost good

Every single time

[edgy phoenix]

theres still

hope

[vivid vessel]

No lol

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-rogue-one-krennic-this-c-lose-gif-10935154

[wintry solar]

mid season tuning to the rescue!

[sharp hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/correcto-inglorious-bastards-basterds-si-gif-15487345

[vivid vessel]

Idc about tuning bro everything is trash

[edgy phoenix]

wym

[vivid vessel]

New ks is second worse spell in history

Second to old ks

[mighty pivot]

better tuning will be a DLC

[vivid vessel]

Ub is so shit

[quaint mauve]

they tried to give a qol change and made it even worse qol

[edgy phoenix]

sure they will change it

prerelease

no way it stays this way

[quaint mauve]

lol

[vivid vessel]

Fazed ultime is so shit so you Perma send coup without fazed and wanna kill yourself

[sharp hinge]

whats the third? momentum for DH?

[vivid vessel]

Ub delay is like

Embarrassing

[mighty pivot]

well they are fine with procs being wasted left and right apparently

[random stirrup]

just from mobs dying?

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[random stirrup]

unlucky

[vivid vessel]

In S2 fazed has high uptime so you don't notice it

[glass mortar]

kspree used to apply it in aoe every ~13s

[vivid vessel]

Mob die you swap and other mob has fazed

In S3 sometimes I don't even have fazed on my main target

[quaint mauve]

new KS doesn’t?????

[random stirrup]

It happened a decent amount in s2 I’m pretty sure

[glass mortar]

it does but half as often

so ur uptime dropped in half

[vivid vessel]

Bro if you get coup and vanish instead of coup you can litteraly drop fazed and never get it again

[random stirrup]

Surely not nearly as often as s3 ofc

[vivid vessel]

And I complained about it

And it happens more

So

How do we make the spec worse

[random stirrup]

ya it’s very cringe that it requires fazed

[glass mortar]

zac did u see solos screenshot of our UB generation on live vs ptr

[vivid vessel]

Is my question

[quaint mauve]

sub is whispering in my ear in ways you guys don’t know

[glass mortar]

we r legit wasting like 3% of UB procs on live

[vivid vessel]

We get 2 changes

[glass mortar]

and like 10% of them on ptr

more then 10% actually

[vivid vessel]

And it's all bad changes that's crazy to me

You do so little work

And everything you do

Is still a fail

That's

Idk

Wild to me

Embarrassing

[glass mortar]

does anyone ever like it when ur resources r forced to overcap like UB

i get u can tune around it w/e

it always feels like shit tho

[vivid vessel]

Every other spec that got hero talent like this it goes above max

So you don't overcap

[quaint mauve]

what was the reasoning behind halving faze on KS

[vivid vessel]

:)

It's just outlaw

[glass mortar]

they didnt halve faze on ks

they doubled ks cd

and didnt change how it applies it

[quaint mauve]

oh

[glass mortar]

the reasoning is they forgor

[vivid vessel]

Doubled ks cd

[glass mortar]

🤷

[quaint mauve]

lol

[vivid vessel]

And ignores the impact it has on trickster for outlaw

[random stirrup]

But the big ks damage now!

[vivid vessel]

Tier set get us back to where we were in term of uh gen

[random stirrup]

Bam bam

[jolly geyser]

but they dont play outlaw so

[vivid vessel]

They just buffed ks till it was enough to compensate

[random stirrup]

Huge compensation

[vivid vessel]

Embarrassing

[wintry solar]

they only play to see if it functions. which technically it does

[vivid vessel]

Ye they changed the damage from off hand damage to main hand damage

[glass mortar]

those filthy outlaws are still cancelling the brand new ks

[vivid vessel]

No one fuckijn care

No one asked them

[glass mortar]

69% damage to ks

[vivid vessel]

To waste time

[glass mortar]

we will get them to stop

[vivid vessel]

On something

[glass mortar]

!

[vivid vessel]

Do meaningless

You only know about it

If you are a tc

[mighty pivot]

ty for your feedback guys we will take it into account ||(not)||

[vivid vessel]

Nerd

Perma online

[glass mortar]

i mean honestly zac

this saves us alot of time for 12.0 feedback

[vivid vessel]

Like who tf will notice this stupid change bro

[glass mortar]

can legit just copy paste the link to that feedback post

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[glass mortar]

[vivid vessel]

It's stupid

[glass mortar]

make sure we dont lose it

[vivid vessel]

I feel stupid

They directly ask us for feedback

Throw everything in the trash

I love having dev interaction

[jolly geyser]

"That doesnt work for me brother"

[vivid vessel]

The only actual change rogue got in the whole ptr cycle didn't even make it to the blue notes

[covert heart]

I think the rogue one just doesn't give af. I have seen other devs actually listen to people who play the spec

[mighty pivot]

tbf dev interaction being zero is standard for BlizZard

[vivid vessel]

I don't want a dev to come in here and ask for feedback if they are gonna ignore everything and litteraly afk till end of ptr cycle

[fiery viper]

this is not necessarily accurate or true. It's just very selective

they've acted on fdk feedback like 4 times this ptr cycle

just don't seem to give a fuck about rogues

[mighty pivot]

that's fair, no point doing that

[civic zephyr]

cos rogue isnt mage or dk we get fuckedd

[balmy topaz]

They make the changes 6 weeks after the season is out

niceee

[covert heart]

I feel like some of these devs need to be shamed more

[civic zephyr]

blizzard are fucking moronic in general, why give a way and encourage feed back from players, and ignore anything the players say

atp they just want us to stfu and go fuck ourselves

[fiery viper]

shaming and calling them morons is surely gonna help

[vivid vessel]

Actually did

[covert heart]

I wish these interviews they actually asked real questions like what do some devs do absolutely nothing.

[fiery viper]

when

[vivid vessel]

Wowhead article about bf

[quaint mauve]

dude what do you mean, they listened? they fixed KS :)

[vivid vessel]

They were bullied into fixing it

And they were mad about it

Just shamed in front of everyone and that worked

[fiery viper]

lmaoo

[civic zephyr]

"fixed" made a change that fucked up half of the spec internal interactions LMAO

[glass mortar]

zac

[balmy topaz]

I mean the dev even mentioned how 2pc for trickster is poopoo

[sudden fulcrum]

I don’t think speculating about what is happening at Blizzard makes sense and getting mad about what you assume is happening makes even less sense

[balmy topaz]

Nothing yet done

[glass mortar]

this

[vivid vessel]

What

[mighty pivot]

it's actually insane how quickly they fixed that shit, why not do that earlier? With the exception of bf hitting dead targets which was discovered late

[civic zephyr]

okay but if someone actively asked and encourages you to feed back to them based on thier actions, then actively ignore anything you say, its human nature to be annoyed

[glass mortar]

they shouldnt have asked for a feedback thread if they werent planning to seriously iterate on the spell

we know they are focusing on a few specs at a time this expac tho

and we arent one of them

not surprising

i do feel misled tho

[vivid vessel]

Ok and the same shit happened in df

[glass mortar]

by the request for a feedback thread we had to make cause they didnt make us a blue thread

[vivid vessel]

They dropped the talents and did 0 iterations on beta

[glass mortar]

and then they didnt do any real iteration

[vivid vessel]

Till they reworked the whole thing

[surreal flower]

They changed it to cast twice instead of reset cd no?

[sudden fulcrum]

You are again assuming they are ignoring you. That makes no sense

[covert heart]

I mean they did though

[glass mortar]

they already fixed the 2set

it used to be a chance to refund the consumed blade so u could send it again

now it just sends a second

which is better.... but still has big issues

especially since there can be as long as a gcd delay in the second blade sending

[gaunt phoenix]

it's curious cause usually there are 570 different opinions on outlaw (or people presenting problems with no solution) but something like KS duration was universal

[timber knoll]

does a class's size of playerbase have an impact on how much it gets iterated on?

[glass mortar]

yea thats why it irks me alot solo

[vivid vessel]

They know better solo

They know what you will enjoy

[glass mortar]

like realz did specifically ask us to make a feedback thread and post in it

[vivid vessel]

You don't know

You are clueless

[glass mortar]

not to blame this on him, im sure the redesign of kspree is on several people and approval for changes and stuff

but we did what they asked

and they did

literally negative iteration on this ability

the first night he posted u could tell they already had an idea for its only major "change" which was doubling its cd

[inland acorn]

Ngl I would love to be just a fly in blizzard office for like a week, just to see how they're working there

[balmy topaz]

Ye and it's things like this that make it feel shit when you make feedback and it feels like it's getting doddged

[glass mortar]

and then radio silence for the rest of the ptr

[timber knoll]

I think their thought process was, why iterate when we can just wholesale redesign it in the next patch

[covert heart]

Prob go insane

[jolly geyser]

morale pretty down I would imagine since layoffs

[vivid vessel]

Nah you know what the crazy thing is

[glass mortar]

and it wasnt like there was a ton of back and forth on what to do to fix it, there was some core ideas that 99% of that thread was in agreement on

[covert heart]

Prob like working in hell in the hellrazer universe

[glass mortar]

nobody wants giga long ks

except blizzard i guess

[balmy topaz]

Wasn't that a while ago

[glass mortar]

but i think its more likely they just didnt even read personally

[vivid vessel]

People thought they were cooking with this ks redesign cause it took them so long

[glass mortar]

🤷

[vivid vessel]

Actual funniest shit ngl

[sharp hinge]

zac ive realized that someone who doesnt know how to install your weakaura - shouldnt be using it

[glass mortar]

which is like w/e, dont ask us for a feedback thread then

[jolly geyser]

the 1 one yes

[civic zephyr]

it feels worse purely because they asked for feedback to be posted on it, then did the one thing that no one asked for, everyone had ideas and opinions, but the only thing related to "timing" mentioned, was the channel time, so why ask for feedback, to take none of it, and just make it worse overall

[vivid vessel]

How can you not know how to instal a weak aura

[civic zephyr]

but hey "it hits a lil harder now"

[inland acorn]

I mean it's basically SL again

Where devs think they know better

Instead of people who actually play their game

[quaint mauve]

isn’t it literally ctrl c ctrl v import

[sharp hinge]

they kept complaining it wouldnt work - come to find out they never had a tank in group

[vivid vessel]

You mean tott weak aura ?

[sharp hinge]

yes

[vivid vessel]

Can't help the guy

[covert heart]

This is an honest question are they forced to play the specs they are devs of? Because I bet the rogue dev is a mage main

[sharp hinge]

yeah i just stopped replying at that point

[quaint mauve]

i’m pretty sure they play dh

[balmy topaz]

I very much doubt it

[covert heart]

Thats more likely they are dh mains it all makes sense now

[timber knoll]

do you guys think outlaw just needs to be redesigned from the ground up, or small modifications can make the spec much healthier?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah they have a gun to their head to play outlaw

[sharp hinge]

i dont think they even play the specs they are the devs of

[quaint mauve]

or atleast that’s the rumor i’ve heard

[vapid blaze]

where did they state they are mad about getting called out xD

[sharp hinge]

or the game at all for that matter

[timber knoll]

i remember a dev said they played with no weakauras and did fine, not sure if they were referring to outlaw or something else

[fiery viper]

they know the gun is siimlar to the one used during KS so it does nothing, which means they can ignore that pressure

[sharp hinge]

LFR doesnt count

[balmy topaz]

It just needs small changes

[inland acorn]

No way u can play law without WAs

[civic zephyr]

i think, they for one need to fully redesign ks based on the actual feedback given, rework mastery as its just kinda? and a few small other things

and it wouldnt be so doomer

[covert heart]

Prob was ret or bm

[sharp hinge]

BM hunter had a dev, that was 400 io and 4/8 normal

[wintry solar]

Kinda the worst stat in the game? Yeah

[civic zephyr]

but getting ignored is just a kick in the teeth from them tbh

[quaint mauve]

make KS a blade dance reskin and call it a day

[sharp hinge]

shouldve asked him for his charecter name

[vapid blaze]

imagine playing trickster
no wa's

[wintry solar]

How long ago was this

[quaint mauve]

tracking buffs without WA is already hard as is

[vivid vessel]

Bro it needs so little to be so good that's why it's so frustrating

[sharp hinge]

hunters are currently asking for a raidbuff rework now

[vivid vessel]

It's litteraly a weekend work

2 days

[remote pecan]

"just fine" in comparison to what exactly?

im sure lots of ppl who cant press their buttons think they are doing just fine also

[vivid vessel]

3 variables changed

[jolly geyser]

says 2023 on pic

[mighty pivot]

bro there is timestamp right there

[covert heart]

Thats 2 many days for blizzard need their beer crawls

[wintry solar]

I didn't see chill ninja

[sharp hinge]

zac, how much for you to be rogue dev

[civic zephyr]

even if they just went with the basic - lower the channel time so we dont spend half our rotation channeling, gave it prio damage back and remove the movespeed reduce, cos why tf are we getting punished for using a melee cd LMAO

it would be fucking fine

[vapid blaze]

imagine
s2 with cdg bug
and killing spree that doesnt tp you around

[spark forge]

1] remove target cap on aoe. (Wich mean u can also redesign that b.f talent for.more target)

[balmy topaz]

@vivid vessel I have a plan We sneak into blizzard and do it ourselves

[vivid vessel]

I would pay them to be given a day to fix outlaw my guy

You don't know how much I would pay

[glass mortar]

tbf hunter raid buff is a meme

[gaunt phoenix]

realz is like, a veteran pvper

I aint talking shit about his gameplay

[sharp hinge]

come to cali, you can stay with me and will go into blizz together

[glass mortar]

legit just worse then monk and dh in every capacity

[quaint mauve]

i mean yeah, current state we get nerfed for just going into the new patch

[glass mortar]

also isnt alone working on rogue or even directly working on rogue as far as we know

[covert heart]

Let's go to blizzard and have a blizzsurrection

[glass mortar]

we have no idea what the current class teams look like

other then theyve told us its teams now and they work on a few classes at a time

[sharp hinge]

we can entice bobby with booby milk

[glass mortar]

instead of dev per spec doing the heavy lifting

[civic zephyr]

its not even a case of "we want to be the strongest spec" its more we want the spec to work in a way that gives the enjoyment and doesnt feel like we have to punish ourselves and build everything around our spec to even do the same as another spec does on its own

[vivid vessel]

As far as we know he isn't working on rogue, and neither is anyone else

I remember when they were tho

[glass mortar]

sure

wouldnt surprise me if we got kspree rework as a scrap off the current team working on mage/hunter/dk and thats why it got zero iteration

[vivid vessel]

Do you believe there is a single guy doing anything rogue related

[glass mortar]

seems more likely nobody read the thread then that they all disagree

no

[vivid vessel]

For us to get litteraly one line of change the whole ptr cycle

Half an intern could have done that

[glass mortar]

personally i dont, because thats less depressing then the alternative

[vivid vessel]

In one afternoon

[random stirrup]

I mean I bet it’s just gerrymander style division where each team has like mage/shaman/rogue

[civic zephyr]

like if they put in the changes, andd it was a good base to balance around in the future, and left us like average, middle of the pack, id be fine, cos atleast it would be functional and consistently fun to do, rather than punish yourself for the spec to work

[balmy topaz]

They probs only reworked KS cus other class devs were complaining about outlaw rogues greifing them in keys

[random stirrup]

So they just focus mage

[vivid vessel]

I like shit talking devs but I refuse to believe they are that incompetent

[sharp hinge]

i think its one of those things where "if you have time, you can try"

[wintry solar]

but 2023 outlaw and 2025 outlaw are such a farcry from each other tbh

[vivid vessel]

I will chose to think they aren't given any time to work on rogue instead

[random stirrup]

And another team is like hunter/druid/dh

[sharp hinge]

its an afterthought

[civic zephyr]

thiss is the cope im living on

[gaunt phoenix]

it feels like they work on bugs when instructed to do so (bf) and actual class changes are minimal

[covert heart]

Don't worry though we are getting that ks rework..trust

This Thursday

[wintry solar]

I dont think theyre in the meeting room going "lets ignore Outlaw" or whatever

[sharp hinge]

that, or if theres enough backlash and noise from the playerbase

[jolly geyser]

should call them out on wowhead again

[civic zephyr]

prolly cos we arent mentioned at all

[covert heart]

I think they are its on their board every day don't do anything for outlaw. Buff fire mage more

[wintry solar]

I need more details of how they work before I make a conclusion like that tbh

[civic zephyr]

keep mage as top tier, fuck rogue, bored of unholy so lets make frost dk disgusting this tier

[quaint mauve]

we arent even given a thought man

[covert heart]

Prob have a daily teem meeting to ignore outlaw and survival

[mighty pivot]

just need to wait until there's a shareholder who mains outlaw

[jolly geyser]

mage got jaina, people see her magic and play

[quaint mauve]

get rich and invest everything into blizzard

[covert heart]

Alright guys give me enough money and I'll be the specs share holder

[vivid vessel]

I think we just lack a community twitcher /youtuber guy

And I swear that matters

[civic zephyr]

time for you to step the fuck up

[dense bolt]

Start yapping zac

[civic zephyr]

get on it

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[gaunt phoenix]

they prob work on next expansion stuff, no way a team just sits there and talks class stuff all day every day

[dense bolt]

On twitch

Be our twitch guy

[vivid vessel]

Zorthas is probably the only reason the monk change got reverted

Cause he has enough impact

[random stirrup]

He did gods work with that video fr

What a hero

[civic zephyr]

i vote zac for twitch guy of outlaw players

[random stirrup]

Love zorth

[jolly geyser]

Kush gets 900 more viewers than zeross and zac but eh,dunno if he likes outlaw

[sharp hinge]

zac can be our shindig

[vivid vessel]

Like you know the guys like preheat

That make their mage videos

[sharp hinge]

you mean pyreheat

[vivid vessel]

This is shit, this is good, change this

Then people discuss

[civic zephyr]

no its preheat im p sure

[vivid vessel]

And the feedback has impact

[civic zephyr]

yeah

[sharp hinge]

he changed to evoker

mages are not happy with him

[balmy topaz]

So what you're saying zac is

[vivid vessel]

[civic zephyr]

zac start talking, make an argument yt video about rogue on ptr

[balmy topaz]

you need to start making vids

[vivid vessel]

No

Nice try tho

[loud garden]

it could be you bro

[balmy topaz]

Fuck

[vivid vessel]

I don't takk

[balmy topaz]

I already heard you before

[loud garden]

[vivid vessel]

I'm actually mute irl guys

No capi

[jolly geyser]

not even in raid

[balmy topaz]

On casual stream

[vivid vessel]

Haha

Ye true

During the tott

[timber knoll]

I think it’s just a matter of,

“We will cook something up but if it’s bad or you don’t like it, we can alter it a bit but we can’t serve a whole new meal.”

So if rogue isn’t played amongst devs that much or they don’t have a strong direction for the class the initial cook is lackluster. See our hero talents

[tropic zephyr]

Zac on breadtube soon

[balmy topaz]

yeyeye hahaha

[loud garden]

Just use an AI voiceover ezpz

[vivid vessel]

[jolly geyser]

vtuber zac

[balmy topaz]

OMG

Ye zac

do it

[vivid vessel]

A tomato on my head

[civic zephyr]

there is a league player that does this sort of thing too i think right?

[random stirrup]

Kalamazi made this disgusting piece of work and now demo sims 7 mil

[fair oak]

I'll talk for you

[random stirrup]

Thoughts?

[jolly geyser]

lower voice than piratesoftware and say you work for blizz every 30min

[sharp hinge]

make a video zac, show your beautiful face and well make it go viral

[fair oak]

I'm moroccan I can sound like I'm french easily

[vivid vessel]

You guys remember when wox was a vtuber

I remember

[balmy topaz]

Naa you can do a talking pooh zac

[fair oak]

No one will be able to tell

[civic zephyr]

did you know he workeed at blizzard for 7 years?

[vivid vessel]

That's exactly what I'm talking about

[cinder relic]

GUYS WARLOCK NEEDS AN EMERGENCY BUFF

[tropic zephyr]

Tru everybody heard Zac and zeross on that throne 30

[jolly geyser]

did he really?

[hasty warren]

I'm pretty sure I already heard you in a video zac

[vivid vessel]

These guys have impact, as much as people meme on it

[civic zephyr]

he was the first, second generation blizzard employee too

[vivid vessel]

Ye the tott

I think that's it

[hasty warren]

not one of you

[proper bear]

Use soundboard

[jolly geyser]

thats crazy

[sharp hinge]

sad that the loudest in the room is heard by blizz

[random stirrup]

Warlock needs more buffs NOW

SAVE WARLOCK!!

[gaunt phoenix]

i dunno how real the 7 million sims are

[civic zephyr]

ive seen way too many vids of people taking the piss out of this i swear

[vivid vessel]

Solo half the specs sims 7 Mik

Mil

No capi

[fiery viper]

is this dev you talk about in here with us

[frail veldt]

Lololol yes

[jolly geyser]

abit too much,same vids over and over

[civic zephyr]

yupp

[vivid vessel]

I think its time to get the secret apl out of the vault @gaunt phoenix

[random stirrup]

They’re warlocks

[vivid vessel]

We kept it hidden for so long

[gaunt phoenix]

[vivid vessel]

But the time is dire

[random stirrup]

U think they will not sandbag?

[vivid vessel]

It's time

[sharp hinge]

[random stirrup]

They’re probably underselling

[hasty warren]

the ultimate trap card

[jolly geyser]

you know what they say,rogues pick locks

[tropic zephyr]

Solo press the APL nitro button

[random stirrup]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rA98c9NBiiSAEunDapJSX8

they will link this and ask for more buffs

[vivid vessel]

Diabolist

[tropic zephyr]

[gaunt phoenix]

i can prolly make outlaw 5m

[balmy topaz]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gJMwcuj6yUX7fxKqgYPLcY

[vivid vessel]

It's in the name

[timber knoll]

Yeah outlaw needs a YouTube advocate, way easier for devs to digest a 10-20 minute video than to read pages of forum feedback which is hit or miss

[vivid vessel]

[inland acorn]

But can you make it 7m

[frail veldt]

Dude what if zeross actually talked super slow IRL

Like he could only type fast

[vivid vessel]

Haha

[tropic zephyr]

[frail veldt]

Id die

[vivid vessel]

I heard zeross

[random stirrup]

Me when I shadow bolt 5 times in a row

[tropic zephyr]

Zeross on 3 coffee+15 red bulls talking slow

[jolly geyser]

he talks normal

[vivid vessel]

He just have a lfg guy voice

[frail veldt]

LOL

[gaunt phoenix]

I definitely feel bad that realz or whoever has to scroll through the slop here

[frail veldt]

It's funny I know exactly what you mean

[vivid vessel]

Ye right

[jolly geyser]

ye its fun talking about the same stuff over n over

[vivid vessel]

You can hear him in the tott video form casual

Tell me if I'm wrong

[balmy topaz]

You think he actuyally scrolls through it all

or just types in realz and dev

[frail veldt]

Ooo I'll check that

[frail veldt]

Typing in dev is cursed

[fading coral]

why is hotline bis

I've never seen this before

[timber knoll]

Discord is impossible to scroll through for anything substantive. PTR feedback thread is half decent half garbage feedback. A YouTube video from an established community member gets their attention best

[jolly geyser]

dev ussy

[gaunt phoenix]

we have like 6 trinkets that are within 0.4%

Hotline is technically bis in raid

[timber knoll]

There’s that one guy who made the video about getting into mythic raiding, he plays rogue

[gaunt phoenix]

but its whatever

[wintry solar]

Ptr thread needs like a 12 hour slowmode or something

[jolly geyser]

4h seems ideal

have to write a sentence

[timber knoll]

We need to plead our case to the poddyc

[wintry solar]

Yeah prolly 4h. I was exaggerating tbh. It's just annoying anytime people are giving genuine feedback, there are always those losers starting arguments and flooding the thread with piss brain takes

[vivid vessel]

We have an inside ally already

Dorki is a fan of the phys comp

[fiery viper]

gotta make realz a discord bot that redirects all of the messages to some ai filtering for constructive feedback (might go wrong and end up in new ks tho)

[balmy topaz]

Naa not him

[vivid vessel]

Tettles

[balmy topaz]

I despise him

Sandbagger

[vapid blaze]

hes sandbagging on resto

[balmy topaz]

I just saw what happened

[cinder relic]

It's a good trinket especially on short kill timers

[balmy topaz]

God

[vapid blaze]

we have 2 handicapped specs
fury and outlaw

[balmy topaz]

O is this you

[vapid blaze]

yeah im the rogue
im kinda cheating with the weapon too

[violet bison]

dont even mention fury lmfao

[glass mortar]

i mean its our bis trinket in sims by a tiny bit but u only wear it in raid because it breaks cudgel

[balmy topaz]

Plz don't use the nightfall wep...

You are just baiting ppl

He's gonna mental boom

[fading coral]

first time sitting down with rogue

(definitely chose the right spec)

[vivid vessel]

You using cudgel on ptr?

[jolly geyser]

now stand up

[balmy topaz]

He's gone RIP

[vivid vessel]

Ye it's cause of people like you

[glass mortar]

wait are u using a cudgel thats scaled to 710

[jolly geyser]

do a 360 and walk away from pc

[glass mortar]

lmao

[vivid vessel]

biggest outlaw ennemies btw

[covert heart]

They just need to make a new crudgel for this season easyyy fix

[balmy topaz]

Wouldn't that be back into the pc

[vapid blaze]

ok but i sitll do damage

so what now xD

[jolly geyser]

[fiery viper]

xD

[vivid vessel]

ye ??

[balmy topaz]

Fake dmg

[civic zephyr]

literally lets use something thats literally not going to exist, to boost damage stats to feel good while giving fake logs back on class testing

[vivid vessel]

cause the weapon is bonkers if you scale it up

[civic zephyr]

interesting choice

[vapid blaze]

*dont do damage

[vivid vessel]

ok

[balmy topaz]

If we had a 684 Cludge

[vivid vessel]

based

[balmy topaz]

We would be

bangin

But we don't

[sharp hinge]

i hate tettles, he needs new teeth and to wash his hair and a clean shave. bro looks homeless in a suit

[jolly geyser]

surely raid has some nice weapons

[violet bison]

if only.

[vivid vessel]

but ye idk

[jolly geyser]

[vivid vessel]

if you use cudgel on ptr

i think you are smooth brain

[glass mortar]

zac werent u using capo on ptr

[vapid blaze]

im willingly playing outlaw
on ptr
ofc im smooth brain

[balmy topaz]

[vivid vessel]

ye i was to compensate not doing the cape

also capo is worth like 1%

[covert heart]

I made sure to get rid of it after one key after I forgot about the scaling 🤣

[vivid vessel]

i stopped now that i have cape

but capo is worth nothing

reminder it doesnt even have stats

its not cudgel

[civic zephyr]

compared to cudgel capo is worthless

[glass mortar]

its certainly stronger then a 710 normal stat weapon would be

[covert heart]

Can we get a 710 crudgel for this season?

[glass mortar]

its not a 710 cudgel tho sure

u cannot get a cudgel over 658 ilvl

[covert heart]

I know i am being sarcastic

[violet bison]

cope 710 cudgel

[placid patio]

servers up w00t

[vivid vessel]

nah but

[fading coral]

KEKW

[vivid vessel]

bro entered a grp

[fading coral]

I FEEL LIKE IM ON BM

[vivid vessel]

where a mm hunter

cant do more than tank damage

[covert heart]

But in all seriousness they should just make that weapon a baseline ability for us

[civic zephyr]

how do you fuck up mm?

[vivid vessel]

ptr grps are even worse than live weekkies

no cap

[vapid blaze]

yeah

[civic zephyr]

this is just another cheap cop out fix tho

[balmy topaz]

Tru

[vapid blaze]

its legit
s2 damage with 700ilvl

[covert heart]

Ill take it

[civic zephyr]

when they could just invest a little time to make outlaw functional at a base and balance from there

rather than just keep giving us cheap cover up fixes

[covert heart]

They don't have the time they need it all for mage and vengeance

[civic zephyr]

and dk

[violet bison]

Whats the
1.
2.
3.
We WOULD need?

[mighty pivot]

a non-empty list

[cinder relic]

What does this even mean

[late swallow]

pretty straightforward

we just need a functional outlaw base clearly

[covert heart]

Or a base functional outlaw however you wanna word it

[keen belfry]

Then balance from there

[civic zephyr]

give the class some love, fix the shit that everyone is complaining about, make it overall functional at a base level, and work the balancing from there, rather than these constant shitty cheap fixes

[late swallow]

yes exactly, I was just about to get there

[civic zephyr]

"fixes" more like

[cinder relic]

If they fixed everything people complained about the spec it would be unrecognizable

What do u mean "constant cheap shitty fixes"

[covert heart]

Don't worry we will always find a way to complain