outlaw

[haughty wigeon]

not rage baiting, he does alot of sus stuff in serious content. but like it doesnt matter cause hes the only one doing that content

so

its w/e

[proven ocean]

idk why ur acting like ur highly experienced in the game

im really surprised because u have literally 0 xp

[haughty wigeon]

man pushing a bugged talent in df s2 vdh

saying its op

when it doesnt work 50% of the time

so ya

[proven ocean]

u still dont even have resil 20 which i had 2 months ago (first team to get resil 20 on eu btw)

and ur talking about M+

which i find quite funny

comparing urself to mdi players is quite big talk if u ask me

[haughty wigeon]

i mean he can def keep up

[proven ocean]

no

dont even mention that because thats not even half good score

[tender wedge]

i don't know why anyone tries to convince zeross of anything, so few people have higher io

[quaint mauve]

zeros falling for bait

[proven ocean]

not having resil 20 at this time is a warcrime

[haughty wigeon]

idk why your acting like this

like

[proven ocean]

hes acting like everyone on mdi sucks

[haughty wigeon]

its w/e

[proven ocean]

and doesnt minmax shit

[haughty wigeon]

i cba

[proven ocean]

ur stupid af i cba

they're clearly the best players in the game

and hes egoing that they're making mistakes 24/7

[haughty wigeon]

i mean ya

[proven ocean]

and they are clueless about leech

[haughty wigeon]

its highkey true

[proven ocean]

and many other things

[haughty wigeon]

but its w/e

[proven ocean]

sure dude

[haughty wigeon]

no point convincing you if your gonna act like this

[leaden sonnet]

Zeross telling people theyre egoing never gets old

[toxic star]

let him

[proven ocean]

thats wild coming from you eleem

ngl

[toxic star]

its good content

[haughty wigeon]

real

mdi augs doing mistakes? nooooo its actually a "secret tech" not a mistake

even tho theyre human and in a highstress enviroment and thus more prone to doing mistakes

[proven ocean]

everyone makes mistakes hes saying that they're not taking advantage of minmaxes

and they're clueless about which tertiary are the best

thats quite wild coming from a r1000 key pusher

[frail veldt]

he can have high io and be wrong still

[tender wedge]

thats kinda the point im trying to make

im being sarcastic lol

[proven ocean]

Everyone can be wrong even me sure but why is he saying leech is better than avoidance for rogue

[frail veldt]

this is a pretty contentious one

[proven ocean]

Thats such a stupid thing to say

[frail veldt]

I mean theyre both irrelevant on outlaw

[haughty wigeon]

mostly cause math checks out

[tender wedge]

if you're gonna claim something either way you need to bring the receipts, and his are "here's some maths" and yours are "here's some vibes from my huge io"

so like

[proven ocean]

There’s literally 0 situations where leech is better

[tender wedge]

why do you think people aren't convinced

[proven ocean]

Nah dont even talk dude

Ur clueless af

[haughty wigeon]

i mean

[frail veldt]

well the argument would be that the only thing rogue can even die to is ST damage

right?

[haughty wigeon]

math>feels

[proven ocean]

brother

[haughty wigeon]

and frankly in highend theres way to much

[proven ocean]

ur talking about math when u never pushed on rogue in ur life

[frail veldt]

but also this season theres not much st scary damage anyway

[haughty wigeon]

feels>math even tho valid cause thats a whole world in its own

[frail veldt]

I think tertiaries are the weakest theyve ever been this season

[haughty wigeon]

but like

it gets silly af

[frail veldt]

for rogue

[proven ocean]

i was r1 for 2 months straight and did the highest keys i was higher than kira and jpc's team for a long time aswell and i guarantee you some bosses are no where near livable without avoidance

[haughty wigeon]

when your shown proper math on how it can be better

[proven ocean]

and ur pretending that ur playing the game alot

[haughty wigeon]

and the response is like "NO NO NO NO"

[frail veldt]

zeross whats your argument though other than "my ios higher"

[proven ocean]

u literally never logged into a high key in ur life and ur responding to random log numbers

nah

[haughty wigeon]

"my io bigger so your WRONG"

[proven ocean]

i cba with you dude

literally the dumbest guy i've talked to since zac

[haughty wigeon]

hurtful

[mighty pivot]

[haughty wigeon]

idk why zac is catching strays

hes sleeping

[tender wedge]

wait

[mighty pivot]

he misses him

[tender wedge]

zac io higher though

[proven ocean]

my guy is saying avoidance is worse because of random log numbers when u cant even live +21 keys without avoidance

[tender wedge]

so he can't be wrong

[haughty wigeon]

ya thats true

[proven ocean]

give me 1 key where ur living a +22 key

without avoidance

1

[wind obsidian]

Your title fits, Zeross

[proven ocean]

you probably never even attempted it in ur life

[wind obsidian]

Jfc

[frail veldt]

looking at logs is kinda irrelevant

[proven ocean]

and ur speaking of experience which you clearly lack

[frail veldt]

you have to look at which one has more of a chance to save your life

thast the only thing that matters

the rest is pad

[proven ocean]

yes

ofcourse

[frail veldt]

thats just the fact of the matter

and tbh this season I dont think either saves you ver much

with 100% feint uptime, avoidance is irrelevant cuz if youre dying from aoe your whole team is already dead

[proven ocean]

i tried messing with leech a bunch of times it literally only gives 0.7% which heals you way too little and sin barely has good dmg to even get value out of

ur pretending that ur doing sargeras dps and healing 1m per second

[frail veldt]

and leech is also irrelevant because the only things you can die to on outlaw is ST damage and there arent that many big ST damage checks that leech can save you from(like some scary bleed)

[proven ocean]

one thing you need to realize btw

is that in high keys

certain mechanics deal x amount of dmg

and if u reduce that by 2-5%

you live it entirely

where as leech wont even save you from that big hit

[frail veldt]

leech saves you from ST dots mainly

[proven ocean]

and hes linking +15 keys too btw which i find quite amazing

[proven ocean]

it doesnt tho

[frail veldt]

like ST rot damage

[proven ocean]

like

[frail veldt]

thats it

[proven ocean]

at all

no

[frail veldt]

I mean it "can"

in theory

[proven ocean]

it really doesnt mewo

[frail veldt]

yes

[proven ocean]

it can

but it doesnt

[frail veldt]

I know

but thast the theory

[proven ocean]

because healers exist

and

the biggest proof btw

[frail veldt]

im forming the argument from both perspectives

[proven ocean]

is swampface

and candle king

[haughty wigeon]

whats your io mewo

has to be

[proven ocean]

candle king is the biggest avoidance boss in the game

[haughty wigeon]

above 5k

[proven ocean]

and hes a full rot dmg fight

[frail veldt]

I'm not pushing this season

[proven ocean]

everyone goes for very high avoidance

@haughty wigeon i forgot ur the cooked rem

i didnt even read ur name

[haughty wigeon]

[proven ocean]

rem

ngl

[haughty wigeon]

then you cant have a opinion

thems the rules

[proven ocean]

ur the worst guy to talk to in ravenholdt

you never change

[haughty wigeon]

[proven ocean]

your the only guy here who doesnt know anything and only replies the opposite

even zac hates you coming from a guy who doesnt hate anyone

[frail veldt]

my highest io was 3700 in DF

I honestly havent done m+ for that long at high rating

[haughty wigeon]

okay and?

[proven ocean]

rem

[haughty wigeon]

again idk why you always loop around to zac

[proven ocean]

ur called cooked rem for a reason

u know that right

[haughty wigeon]

like

man

[proven ocean]

zac gave you that name

not me

[haughty wigeon]

i dont really care??

[frail veldt]

but anyway

@haughty wigeon whats your argument for when leech saves you this season?

[proven ocean]

[frail veldt]

or are you just saying it numerically pads more than avoidance over a key

cuz that is true

[proven ocean]

hes saying math checks out

[frail veldt]

it doesnt make it better though

[proven ocean]

which is really funny

because avoidance is the most broken stat in M+ rn

[haughty wigeon]

i mean xeph showed math and numbers that warrent investigation and testing

[frail veldt]

numbers for what

[haughty wigeon]

and frankly thats enough to atleast try

[frail veldt]

overall value in aa key?

cuz thats not relevant

[haughty wigeon]

of leech doing more

for specific mechanics

[proven ocean]

dude

[frail veldt]

thats not what tertiaries are for

they arent to pad

[haughty wigeon]

like candle king

[proven ocean]

hes talking about evoker

??????????

[frail veldt]

oh

[proven ocean]

candle king

[haughty wigeon]

but again ive always said

[proven ocean]

this guy

[haughty wigeon]

that these stats are highkey irrelevant

[frail veldt]

yes

[proven ocean]

brother

[haughty wigeon]

but its nice to play around

[frail veldt]

both tertiaries are pretty useless this season

[haughty wigeon]

and not dismiss it

cause

[proven ocean]

leech is so bad we check logs of them every season

[frail veldt]

there arent as many 1 shots as previous seasons

[haughty wigeon]

"muh io bigger"

so

[proven ocean]

?

[pliant wind]

Shouldnt feint give you enough avoidance for pretty all situations? Outlaw can have it perma

[frail veldt]

yes

[proven ocean]

hes literally clueless about log checking and m+

[frail veldt]

avoidance is mostly irrelevant on outlaw

but also so is leech lol

cuz leech doesnt ever "save" you

[haughty wigeon]

like its also not right to call the dude a bad palyer

even tho hes like r3 evoker

and had r1's on other specs before evoker

[proven ocean]

ye u can be a r1 survival hunter at 3.3k

[haughty wigeon]

so again it boils down

[proven ocean]

and call urself r1

[haughty wigeon]

to whats happening now

[proven ocean]

nah cooked rem i cba with you

[pliant wind]

Nah this discussion for outlaw as i can see it its pretty useless, even in minmax situations

[haughty wigeon]

"muh io bigger therefor your wrong"

[proven ocean]

your always very stupid when it comes to discussions rem

such a terrible person to talk to and thats coming from me too

we had so many discussions on many things and u always had the most cooked takes

its crazy that mewo even stands with me on this one btw

because everyone knows how shitty leech is for rogue

[pliant wind]

Assa in the other hand, avoidance gets more importance

Or sub

[proven ocean]

and ur here vouching a random ass evoker whos doing r1000 keys and talks mdi playing not doing minmaxes without a single r1 log

both of you are casual players anyway

[haughty wigeon]

but hes not a random

[proven ocean]

so it doesnt matter

"not a random" kush lets say

[haughty wigeon]

but you refuse to acknowledge that

[proven ocean]

is he gonna know him?

ofcourse not

because no one knows him in the top end

because he never went up there

[haughty wigeon]

but everyone does know him in the top end especially in tank spaces

[proven ocean]

there are many good players in wow that investigate stats 24/7

and most of them are chinese players btw for your information

[haughty wigeon]

your just again being mad

for no reason

[proven ocean]

if leech gets good one day

everyone will play it

and not a random r3 evoker who does r1000 keys when no one invites a dev in the first place is gonna talk about how good leech is at the end of the season and especially for class that i play 24/7

[haughty wigeon]

again ive already put more effort into this conversation than i originally wanted too

[proven ocean]

i have every right to be mad about him spreading lies about rogue because i play it everyday

[haughty wigeon]

your just impossible to talk to when your like this

[craggy barn]

idk zeross just dropped a whole ass sentence

[haughty wigeon]

and when your pushed into a corner your lash out with personal insults and irrelevant bs

[proper bear]

I know that I’m witnessing a crash out in just not sure who’s yet

[haughty wigeon]

so again its w/e

[proven ocean]

play leech whatever dude

[covert heart]

i mean if the top players really dont care about these stats than he is prob right

[tender wedge]

this is a multicar pile up

[mighty pivot]

new word per enter record

[covert heart]

they nerfed it to where they dont really matter anymore

[proven ocean]

ur just here typing "my io bigger" every other sentence pretending ur the innocent guy here

ur being annoying af too if you haven't noticed

and im not the first guy saying this about you

your always acting like this and acting innocent 24/7

[craggy barn]

the amount of words per enter here is fucking insane

yapping out of his mind

[proven ocean]

hes spreading wrong info 24/7

what do u expect

maybe spread wrong info in trade chat not in class discords where people actually want to learn

[haughty wigeon]

i mean zeross

you and like a few others

are 100% the reason why every normal person has outlaw perma muted

[hybrid crown]

I just think leech is neat

[proven ocean]

im very open to real discussions on rogue, but you talking about high keys when u dont really do high keys is wild

and the other guy bringing up "proof" which isnt really proof as an evoker player

coming here saying its good for rogue

when he didnt even login rogue once in his life

[pliant wind]

This is cinema

[covert heart]

is the discusion about avoidance vs leech?

[pliant wind]

I should be sleeping 2 hours ago

[tender wedge]

open to conversation only with people who do high keys*

[covert heart]

thats what i am kind of gathering

[wind obsidian]

[mighty pivot]

yes this is the part with the 20 minute monologue

[proven ocean]

hes talking about rogue benefiting from leech which is extremely wrong

[covert heart]

i mean avoidance is def better

[proven ocean]

he doesnt play rogue at all

hes just trolling rn

[haughty wigeon]

[tender wedge]

i mean hes not

he might be wrong

[covert heart]

isnt avoidance like better for almost every dps?

[tender wedge]

idk

[proven ocean]

YES

yes

[covert heart]

because it save you from a 1 short

[wind obsidian]

[covert heart]

shot

[proven ocean]

ye thats the point of it

and

[tender wedge]

but he's trying to have a discussion and just gets shut down getting called stupid and a non pusher and low io moron and its like

thats not an open conversation

[proven ocean]

it reduces the dmg u take, mostly healers overheal you alot

and healers are very good this season

[covert heart]

i mean its just common knowledge avoidance is just better

[proven ocean]

and leech got giga nerfed every season

[haughty wigeon]

[fierce valve]

I heard Leech is better then Agi. I only run Mythic 0's though. Just a rumor.

[covert heart]

heard int is actually better than agi gotta test it

[proven ocean]

well ye, im just saying this because hes saying it specifically for rogue when he doesnt even play rogue

[hybrid crown]

If they let us slot tertiaries into gear I'm going straight leech on my rogue lol

[covert heart]

then yea that spreading bad info for peeps

[fierce valve]

Int makes you smarter. Avoid more mechanics if you are smart. It adds up.

[hybrid crown]

They need to add a thing from the vault token thingy that lets you do that

[proven ocean]

idk why hes talking about high keys on sin when its literally impossible to live without it

so stupid if u ask me

[covert heart]

alright lets test it and get circle back in a week

[proven ocean]

and he just randomly links a +15 key as a proof that its better

im pretty sure if i unequip both my trinkets and my offhand i'll easily live a +15

and remove my leeching poison too

[covert heart]

yea these stats only really matter in like way higher keys

[proven ocean]

yea

[covert heart]

but even if its a lower key taking less damage helps the healers

[proven ocean]

avoidance only matters in like

the highest keys ever

because you take so much dmg u want to reduce it

[hybrid crown]

Ooh is leeching poison back on the menu next season

[covert heart]

i think even in lower keys avoidance is nice to help the okay healers out

[craggy kelp]

ok but speed enchant on wrists is bis nocap

[proven ocean]

@covert heart btw

its the same discussion that occured with sin

when i cooked the double shiv build

everyone was so mad that it simmed -10% and im playing it in the highest keys

then when i sent a fixed apl with that sim everyone started copying me

[ornate gazelle]

hey, I have a 684 daggers tghat I want to swap with cudgel for ST, i use the following macro that swaps to the dagger but doesnt swap back to cudgel. Anyone can troubleshoot?
#showtooltip 17
/equipslot 17 Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel
/equipslot 17 Pyrotechnic Needle-Dropper

[proven ocean]

now every sin rogue in the leaderboards is playing that exact build

except chinese guys but they're just living on their own i think

prob the guy is boosted too because bleed build is giga cooked in high keys

[covert heart]

yea when i see certain things i just assume that they are doing it for a reason since they are way better than me

[pliant wind]

In AoE situations you re having like 6% more versa if you see it this way if you have 3% avoidance,its not joke

[proven ocean]

almost every dangerous ability is avoidance based

most dots and non avoidable dmg is easily healable

and if u narrow it down btw

like

[mighty pivot]

do you have two of those daggers by any chance?

[ornate gazelle]

I sure do -_-

[proven ocean]

the places where leech would be better is 1st boss DFC for example where its so useless there because 80% of the time u wont need it and the adds give you a bleed, to counter it is to kite the adds and cc them where as leech would be to attack them which is a counter

and means you'll take way more dmg

by attacking them

for what

0.5% of ur dmg

being healed

more likely than not as sin ur holding ur mark for the cart too

so that u dont wipe

[mighty pivot]

!weaponswap

[ornate heath]

You can swap most weapons in keys. Outlaw swaps between the Nightfall event weapon for trash and a better offhand for bosses, such as Capo (change the name):

/equipslot 17 Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel
/equipslot 17 Capo's Molten Knuckles```
If your offhand is the same name as your mainhand, then the above macro won't work, you have to swap by bag slot:
```#showtooltip 17
/equipslot 17 Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel
/equipslot 17 <bag #> <bag slot #>```
Note that **Gallywix's Iron Thumb** cannot be swapped in keys.

[mighty pivot]

use the variant with bag/slot like above

[hybrid crown]

You can set one of your bags to not auto sort as well to make the macro work consistently

If you click the clean up bags button it'll break the macro without this

Probably

[gaunt phoenix]

let me update that to say the first one doesn't work if you have two offhands of the same name in your bags, not just mainhand

[dire skiff]

Try a cast sequence modifier.

[dull geyser]

any tips on getting higher AR uptime than like low 90s

[quaint mauve]

for me it was mainly my uptime in ST that got me, improving my rotations and rule following in ST improved my adr by like 2-3% past 90ish

[frail veldt]

read the faq super super carefully

or post a log for review

the last few percent likely comes from some cornercases you might be missing in the rotation

[mighty pivot]

it can also be due to outside of your control factors, bosses like xav or kujo are more punishing. I will second posting a log

[quaint mauve]

idk how bad this is but ideally i have a vanish for kujo intermission

i hate that boss

and i hate cinder first boss

i hate a lot of bosses actually when i’m playing this spec

[mighty pivot]

cinder first boss is usually ok if you keep attacking him for a few seconds to farm AR cdr

[quaint mauve]

i instinctively just go do cups because we r so fast at doing it

but you’re right

ima do that instead ngl

[mighty pivot]

as outlaw you can afford to do that because you can just hook out and back in and still be on time. He takes a few seconds to set out the cups as well. He's an annoying boss but at least you don't get stunned like on xav

[frail veldt]

yeah I usually just do my 1 mug and then go back to boss and do rotation

[quaint mauve]

i usually do 2 mugs and cry that my adr uptime is dogshit

https://tenor.com/view/taiho-shichau-zo-teehee-anime-youre-under-arrest-ova-gif-21342147

[serene heath]

@vivid vessel How sad are we??

[wintry solar]

I just have a big ol cup of iced coffee

[quaint mauve]

just reroll dk

[serene heath]

This sounds like S1 again

[tender wedge]

fdk is pretty giga atm if you're looking for a possible meta pick

rogue as per usual isn't looking like endangering the status quo

[craggy barn]

rogue is paying for the sins of BFA and df kingsbane

[wintry solar]

and double outlaw in SL awc

[blissful thunder]

!log

[chilly atlas]

i mean outlaws been paying for bfa since the target cap in sl prepatch i think it was

[tender wedge]

Surv hunter has also been paying since you stacked in in SL

Hmmm 🤔

[wintry solar]

maybe none of us are innocent

maybe the war within was within ourselves the entire time

[short heath]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

[short heath]

!kir

[ornate heath]

KIR build compared to HO:

• doesn't use ambush, uses the same builder priority inside and outside of stealth
• is more cp efficient with pistol shot usage (see faq)
• has to use KIR itself as soon as you hit 4 buffs from RTB/CTO
• has an additional reroll logic after pressing KIR (see faq)
• is more punishing if you mess up builder priority at a given moment
• needs 19% haste from rating to reach 25% during adrenaline rush after alacrity
• KIR 1 FTH really likes trickster optimizations, like prioritizing SS when unseen blades are guaranteed (see faq)

[short heath]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[languid coral]

!stealthbugs

[ornate heath]

• Breaking Vanish with a trinket will not grant Subterfuge.
• Recasting Stealth while Subterfuge is already active will not grant you UHUH or Crackshot bonuses until Subterfuge expires. (fixed as of 11.1)
• Casting Vanish at the same frame that a previous Subterfuge ends will cause Crackshot to not activate.
• After breaking Stealth, there is about a 100ms delay before the effects of Subterfuge happen. You will thus lose about 100ms of adr

[blissful thunder]

what is good uptime on adr? seeing diff numbers on details, logs and wowa

[vivid vessel]

Sadder than S2 that's for sure

But I was happy about S2 I guess you can't have 2 seasons in a row

[serene heath]

LMAO

[novel socket]

s2 was sad too before the bugfixes

[balmy topaz]

Idk how you feel zac but

[serene heath]

I havent played outlaw since S3

[novel socket]

[balmy topaz]

I feel very reliant on raid buffs to crank at least

I feel this season I can crank without them

[vivid vessel]

No shit ruby

[balmy topaz]

[vivid vessel]

That's what I said

[balmy topaz]

You just said sad

[vivid vessel]

And I was told I'm stupid to not play with full raid buffs

[balmy topaz]

COuld be KS sad

[vivid vessel]

But then a dk can also play with full raid buff and get +20%

[balmy topaz]

tru

[vivid vessel]

Also monk on ptr is still 8% btw

[balmy topaz]

Ohh ye

[vivid vessel]

So outlaw is 3% worse come reset

[balmy topaz]

Gets nerfed like

idk when

Spreading KS tho is kinda dumb

[hot olive]

very unlikely we get more changes but hope we get damage profile change

[vivid vessel]

Me when I'm the og prio spec but I have less prio than most of the specs in this game

[languid coral]

i was watching shindigs stream and some guys was saying because you do cracked dmg zac, outlaw is in a good position next season

[vivid vessel]

I wish I was doing cracked damage man

I'm doing away less than S2 comparatively

My AOE is subpar at best, I do tank prio damage and probably have one of the worse st in the game

[hot olive]

having target cap no burst no ST no prio is so ass

[vivid vessel]

As it stands I'm gonna do less boss damage on bosses like momma xd

While on live you are topping that boss btw

[languid coral]

all i said was man sin is looking better that outlaw right now you guys lucky

he got mega tilt and starting bringing you up then called me 3k io brain

was baffled

[feral glen]

AR cd is changed, right?

[wintry solar]

With fatebound tier bonus

[short heath]

Are we going sin or no 😂 ?

[wintry solar]

Why?

They hate you

[tender wedge]

All you crazies out here acting like you can’t change spec with the press of a button if it comes down to it

[wintry solar]

I'll never do that in pve

[vivid vessel]

Wait you talked to zeross?

[tender wedge]

Talked to is being generous

“Got insulted by” is more accurate

[timber zephyr]

feel free to ignore zeross that guy bug abuses often

[flint elm]

Hello, anyone can explain how i can find PTR raid logs?

[vivid vessel]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/reports?zone=44

[pliant wind]

Seems like another range dps patch?

[vivid vessel]

mby

[novel socket]

Nexus king is more a melee fight

And most fights are just depending on dmg profile

[azure vortex]

How is it possible to do less damage than the previous tier

Is the rogue class designer an intern

[vivid vessel]

you dont do less damage than previous tier

its just relative to other specs

you dont do s2 damage

[proven ocean]

Hes just dooming

All specs are fine maybe sin needs few buffs and sub for m+

[azure vortex]

I believe in statistics , outlaw seems ass

[proven ocean]

All of this before 10% buff

In raid

Since ur a fan of statistics

Smart guy

3 different bosses in raid

[azure vortex]

I dont know what are those bosses

[proven ocean]

Saying outlaw is bad in st is just mega cope

[azure vortex]

Send me pure st boss data

[proven ocean]

Foreverguy linked them

Go ask him

Besides if u want more data just go look for it

Outlaw is doing more than enough and it wont be buffed further im pretty sure

[azure vortex]

Ye i have it on my drive 1 sec

[proven ocean]

Besides

[balmy topaz]

Outlaw is lookin pretty good in raid can't lie

[proven ocean]

All of the raid bosses have a chinese guy on top dps

[bright lodge]

Would we do same dmg if new KS and tier set will be available on live w/o 10%aura?

[proven ocean]

Every other eu outlaw is just doing -2m dps

Which i find rly funny

[balmy topaz]

It's M+ when we don't have the raid buffs it seems a bit sus

[proven ocean]

How hard u guys are dooming for no reason

[proven ocean]

If we get buffed more u know how it goes runy

Ruby

[tender wedge]

Tradition

[proven ocean]

It becomes op in RWF

then we get nerfed

[balmy topaz]

yup

[proven ocean]

And ppl cry again

Like DF

[balmy topaz]

We will be good in raid 100%

It's outside of raid is a bit sus

[proven ocean]

maybe ask a dmg rework like more funnel, more uncapped aoe, asking for more st oriented buffs and cleave dps is only gonna make outlaw lean towards how it went in DF

[balmy topaz]

Ye like

Our damage we dish out is good

[vivid vessel]

how

[balmy topaz]

But how it's done

poo poo

[vivid vessel]

i think you are getting baited by the cleave bosses

which outlaw in raid is always good at

[balmy topaz]

Cleave bosses ye

[vivid vessel]

cause of pc

i mean there is that boss which has litteral damage amp on every add that spawns

and they spawns in 2 every like 30s

[proven ocean]

Guy went through the numbers and he said outlaw is good which im gonna trust

Not really interested in overbuffs in ptr

It only leads to disaster nerfs

[vivid vessel]

and on these bosses outalw overall damage looked crazy

[proven ocean]

We could use a dmg profile reqork tho

[vivid vessel]

but its like on stix right

you were just doing last boss damage tho

[proven ocean]

Rework

[balmy topaz]

ye

I wish we could go back

to S3 DF

[vivid vessel]

i mean its pc tho

pc in raid is always like that

you look crazy in raid even if you do dog damage

thats just pc

[proven ocean]

Dmg profile is bad

[vivid vessel]

litteraly 100% cleave on 3 target

[proven ocean]

Dps is very high tho

Same with sub it has rly bad dmg profile for high keys

Its impossible for it to be good

Because of it

It’ll need heavy buffs which it’ll never get

Because otherwise it will be broken in raid

[azure vortex]

Cleave good, ST ass

[willow portal]

when playing as drathyr rouge i can stay as human always right?

[proven ocean]

Thats before the 10% buff

We got a 10% buff to all abilities

So idk how u can say its ass when its ahead of some specs and we both know outlaw is deflated usually early on and pumps midway

Spec is rng it can randomly do too much

[azure vortex]

yeah it might put outlaw in a really good spot

[proven ocean]

And the data is 1 so

If you want to be realistic abotu this

Blizzard cant dump in another buff for no reason

Because theres no data

10% buff into another buff is wild if u ask me

[proven ocean]

Without testing

[willow portal]

would dracthyr rogue be a good idea?

[proven ocean]

Sure go for it, other options are better tho

Nightelf meld is useful to avoid getting hit sometimes

Dwarf for debuff removal

[vivid vessel]

if you enjoy being a dragon cuck

[carmine sorrel]

Stream when @vivid vessel

[willow portal]

right now i am human for char fantasy reasons

but human is boring

[proven ocean]

Why not be a dragon mommy

[vivid vessel]

tonight ye

[proven ocean]

Eitherway i ordered pizza

Cant wait

[carmine sorrel]

@proven ocean what happened to your streams btw

[proven ocean]

Well

My healer quit

And

[carmine sorrel]

Bad excuse

[proven ocean]

Like 2 months ago

Ye i know

I know alot of ppl i shouldn’t stop but

I just stopped playing i got irl stuff

[carmine sorrel]

Yeah valid

[proven ocean]

And im playing another game which makes it easier to manage

[vague cape]

bro backstabbed wow icant

[proven ocean]

I may stream ptr from time to time idk

[carmine sorrel]

Started playing league again and my life’s awful 😢

[timber zephyr]

zerosxd does assa do more than outlaw in the new patch since its uncapped

[proven ocean]

Assa is bad in ptr

Keys too low

Assa kinda excels in real keys only

I dont think its good atm no

Besides the tier set is kinda bad

But they did buff sin to compensate

So it’s doing decent dps

I think its at the same spot as s2

Very good dps in high keys

[timber zephyr]

does assa also bug abuse?

[proven ocean]

Nah

We dont have bugs

[timber zephyr]

that's good

[proven ocean]

Only outlaws bug abuse

But its minor if u ask me

Doesn’t matter too much

[willow portal]

can i prevent going into dragon form in combat tho?

[proven ocean]

Idk i never played evoker

[mild vigil]

yes

only evoker requires dragon form in combat

[vivid vessel]

ok so, i checked all the post buffs logs i had and got all the bosses, one sec, you can ignore the gyu named Nobichez he is a boomie reroll first timing dk that i have been playing with
consider that im also playing 8% monk buff in most, mage got no dh buffs etc, if im doing trash prio, subpar st, no burst, no uncapped aoe, subpar aoe, what am i doing you know
i think every season i have played outalw, even when it wasnt great, it was topping st

[proven ocean]

[vivid vessel]

ye spatter get buffed accidentally everytime they aura buff assa, so it double dip with aura buffs

if anything assa bug abuse more than outlaw rn

[proven ocean]

Same with bladeflurry

Double dips

Hes copying my msg’s

A spell is bugged in its coding = bug abuse

[timber zephyr]

why can't you guys just be ethical and not bug abuse?

is this a european thing

[plush swan]

does sub bug abuse?

[timber zephyr]

probably.

@dense forge

[plush swan]

@dense forge

[quasi ether]

free @timber zephyr

[proven ocean]

Zac is gonna tell u about it

Any other spec he has to make it seem like they’re cheating their way through even when the specs suck

[vivid vessel]

Ye but the opposite way

They are way more ethical

Their cleave thing doesn't work with half their abilities and shit cause it's bugged

[dense forge]

Yes sub is full bug abuse

[vivid vessel]

ye big bug abuser spec

[dense forge]

Ye bro I’m full abusing and losing to mm hunter and fdk which are bad kek

[vivid vessel]

wdym bad

[dense forge]

It’s a joke ofc

Mm and fdk are doing 15% more dam than other classes/specs

Today I’ll play outlaw zac

Gimme the bugs

[vivid vessel]

There isn't any

Just the snd thing still

Which is even less relevant now than in s2

And it already was useless in s2

Oh ye bug you have to play around tho

Ub proc is mega delayed

If you wanna react to it for coup you kinda have to expect it and slow down your GCD

Cause it can proc up to 1 sec later

The free ub thing from 2 p

Hm idk what else

[dense forge]

If it’s same as sub it’s fiiine

I’m young kek

[vivid vessel]

Track fazed on your plater now idk if you were doing that

[vivid vessel]

Well we have a 0.8s GCD, if it procs 1 sec later idk how you react to that tbf

But ye sure

[proven ocean]

@dense forge told u sub sucks in real keys

Ur -5m dps 1st pull arakara too

Also fdk got nerfed didn’t it

[dense forge]

I don’t think it’s that bad , mm and fdk are just overtuned

[proven ocean]

Im smelling copium man

Sub has to do alot more to be worth

It has 0 util

[dense forge]

M+ is not only bout dmg

For example if sub and Assa do similar dam sub is always better

[proven ocean]

?

Thats not true

[dense forge]

Way more st and servivability

Talking bout super high keys

[vivid vessel]

no funnel tho

but sub st is kidna wild ye

[proven ocean]

Assa has way higher funnel and it can live if u dont fk up

[dense forge]

Ds has funnel but ye , trickster doesn’t have bad prio tho

[vivid vessel]

ds poopoo tho right

[dense forge]

You can just do full st rota and no bp for more prio

Overall is fake in keys anyway

It’s just timer that matters

[proven ocean]

U cant do that

Bp does very similar dmg to evis

[vivid vessel]

yeye i know, but asssa will still do more prio than your st

[proven ocean]

Even its neutral to bp at 3-4 targets in some cases

[azure vortex]

This person put mm and sub into same tier

[proven ocean]

If u have to evisc thats just a counter to sub which other classes can do way better at

[dense forge]

Most of keys rn if I had to choose between Assa and sub I would pick sub anytime

[vivid vessel]

tbf mm looked to have bad st

is that true @dense forge

or did i play with bad mms

[proven ocean]

Ye cuz its easier

[dense forge]

No mm doing very good st

Decent at least

[vivid vessel]

ok i got got then

[proven ocean]

Also sin does better dps than sub btw

[vivid vessel]

The mm I got were doing tank st

[proven ocean]

By a good amount, its just that sin is way harder to play

[mighty pivot]

They were sandbagging frfr

[dense forge]

Ye the mm boys on ptr are the guys that think they will play it 2h and break the meters

[vivid vessel]

But they were playing AOE hero talents from. What I heard you can play the other one and do normal st

[dense forge]

Sin is for 60yo retired grandpas

Giga easy kek

[proven ocean]

Thats not even close to true

Every sin player i see is making mistakes each pull and they say its easy

[vivid vessel]

easiest spec in the game fr

[proven ocean]

Order of rotation changes quite alot in aoe

[dense forge]

Dk is harder than Assa fr

[vivid vessel]

frfrrr

[cursive stag]

frrrfrrr

[azure vortex]

I am noob, did 17+ at most but i think sin is the easiest rogue spec, maybr thats because im noob dont know

[vivid vessel]

Bm is harder than assa frrr

[vivid vessel]

no you are not noob

assa is the easiest spec in the game

confirmed

[proven ocean]

I like that zac is saying easiest spec in the game when he was asking me in dm’s why he was doing -20% dps in mdi

[dense forge]

No you would do 23’s but aoe has hard rotation

[proven ocean]

Casual im surprised u think sin is easy when the shiv usage changes in aoe on alot of different situations

Im sure ur aware of the minmaxes right

[dense forge]

Ye but on sub you can get punished way easier from a miss gcd

Like shuriken in rotten window

For example

[proven ocean]

Same with garrote usage, ur envenoms are doing way less especially with the garrote talents

I think ur over estimating sin’s rotation alot

Underestimating *

Sure its free on st

But alot of things change depending on ur buffs, target count etc

Im yet to see one sin rogue that knows how envenom works

[regal saffron]

Only ross in the entire world knows how execute sin

[proven ocean]

its not about that

i think ur missing the point because the APL for this build is completely fked

i did share the fixed one but no one is really following it's rotation at all

except jonwrld and idk who else

[regal saffron]

I should have specified in keys

[proven ocean]

ye but im not really the only one

shindig im pretty sure hes doing the same too

we wont get support for high m+ builds anyway

garrote talents are quite powerful in some keys like dawnbreaker, issue is your losing on 50% of the entire tier set's power and losing a shit ton of st going to garrote talents

shiv, envenom, garrote usages change with that build quite alot, same with the normal garrote build it doing really like garrote that much either

only on opener

its fine to also just press W anyways

[regal saffron]

It's not punishing enough

[proven ocean]

well ye

its just alot of microminmaxes that are scattered

[cursive stag]

what do you mean

[proven ocean]

3 mins brb

bk

ok

i dont mean casual in specific cuz hes mostly on sub, but every streamer i watch is usually over estimating how envenom uptime benefits the spec's dps

they're often holding on darkest night for god knows what they just want a 100% envenom uptime which is fake and doesnt improve your dps chasing that

in the contrary it makes your dps worse if darkest night is up

and idk why people also hold on the 2nd envenom like they're afraid of the 2nd stack to show up or something

its a dps loss to just hold there

not to mention shiv empowers your deathstalker by 50% on top of the entire hero talent making you do tank dps when its not active

try dpsing without mark for once

see how it feels

maybe it'll be easier to understand how powerful it is to use shiv in the correct circumstances that it buffs all of it by 50%

same bullshit showed up when i talked about the new sin build

everyone's crying about how its -10% dps

then everyone copied it

thats when everyone realized it simmed higher

thats because we dont even have proper support on it in the normal apl

which is fine

because its only a high key thing

[cursive stag]

makes sense, ty for listing it

[red zinc]

[proven ocean]

is anything unclear or

[vivid vessel]

[proven ocean]

same with garrote, such a shitty talent in aoe

especialy with the new tier set shiv is simming alot higher now

[proven ocean]

[vague cape]

[vivid vessel]

[hasty warren]

Hi Pirates

[brisk spear]

hi pirate

[haughty wigeon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/253446173774315520/1060610510803980288/skateboardge.gif

[vivid vessel]

hi rem

how are you today

[proven ocean]

why leaking pic of zac

[haughty wigeon]

I am good

I dyed my hair

For important event this coming Sunday

Hru Zac

[proven ocean]

are u old

or what

[haughty wigeon]

No I just don’t like my natural hair color

I like it blond

[proven ocean]

ah

[vivid vessel]

what event

[haughty wigeon]

https://tenor.com/view/xbcm-xblas-blas-canto-blascanto-gif-22168611

[proven ocean]

💀

[haughty wigeon]

Baby cousin baptism

[proven ocean]

ur cooked rem

no cappi

[haughty wigeon]

Idk my mom always dyed it when I was a kid

And frankly I don’t see myself with black hair since I was blond for a good chunk of my life

[proven ocean]

[haughty wigeon]

[proven ocean]

not talking about how u look just ur cooked

[haughty wigeon]

Oh

No u

[proven ocean]

topping meters outlaw in ptr login invest in the power of the double swords of hell l

infinite power l

high st gameplay l

invest before nerf

[gaunt phoenix]

:alert: l

[proven ocean]

solo
[sim]
— 2:47 PM
l

[vivid vessel]

soloooo

[feral glen]

M0 will have daily or weekly lockout?

[vivid vessel]

good question

[feral glen]

How it is now?

[vivid vessel]

Is m0 useful, doesn't it open the same as m+ now

[proven ocean]

they changed it

[vivid vessel]

Or does it open the week before stilll

[proven ocean]

i think its maybe daily now but i may be wrong

[vivid vessel]

I'm clueless ngl

[remote pecan]

it is* daily this tier

[vivid vessel]

ye

but it came later no ?

[feral glen]

Are open week before season start

[vivid vessel]

hm

what ilvl tho

[feral glen]

684

[vivid vessel]

ok so its useless if you are coming fll geared from s1

thats good

[proven ocean]

its not useless

[remote pecan]

it'll be base track items so they'll be upgradable

[proven ocean]

yes

it'll go up to

688

or 700 idk how high

so that'll be good

but idk maybe fake info

[feral glen]

Huge for alt, good for find better trinket of new season

[proven ocean]

but thats what i've been hearing

[hasty warren]

Do we have an idea of what we'll craft next season ?

weapon + bracer ?

[remote pecan]

i havnt heard anything as of yet of blizzard backtracking on the daily m0s

[shy flume]

Lashga’s playing outlaw last 3 weeks kekw

[remote pecan]

so i think for now its safe to assume it will be the same

[vivid vessel]

you wont have crests tho till m+

and then m+ comes up and you get full gear insta

or

[vivid vessel]

ye i heard he was blasting

[shy flume]

Watched alilbit was ok

But why 2nd rogue tho

Why some people have 2 same class

[vivid vessel]

I have 4 rogues, but it's for splits I don't play them

I can't imagine actually playing these guys nhl

[willow portal]

is it the normal gameplay that i basically just spam between the eyes with the HO build in m+?

[vivid vessel]

But I'm a big alt hater

[short heath]

pro players do it to have best possible gear on chars. For them its like they have multiple tries on raid gear and vault.

[vivid vessel]

"spam" at max cp right

[civic zephyr]

right..?

[stone vault]

chat am i safe on EU with 3815 rating?

[willow portal]

well i use when my cp goes green or full

so 6-7 i guess

[pliant wind]

I cant maintain more than main and 1 alt for vault, i have no time anymore

[civic zephyr]

nah you need 5k rating and 700ilvl to get invited into pugs for +10 here unless youre a meta spec

[short heath]

from people telling you you still need to learn to play? Nah

[stone vault]

but thats not what i asked 😭

[willow portal]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mvRHc8LdnCpk2jq4?fight=last
if anyone wants to take a look

[vivid vessel]

Less pro players like myself use them to split the raid in multiple, my alt won't ever be played but our mains will have better gear cause we will have 1/3 mains per raid and the rest are splits alts, so the mains get funnelled

[willow portal]

splits are a trap imo

[vivid vessel]

What

[civic zephyr]

no splits are good

[willow portal]

my guild is around wr 800-1200 and does splits

[remote pecan]

i'm having to gear a character for splits for the first time

[willow portal]

splits are good if you are in a good guild

splits are useless when people are barely bale to press wasd

[civic zephyr]

idk ive played in 1 wr500 ish guild and even i know splits are good, and im a casual andy

[vapid blaze]

idk having more gear is always better

espec early season with tsets

[civic zephyr]

gear/raid exp so on

[vivid vessel]

One single additional split doesn't take much and that's already x2 the loot you get

Which is insane

[willow portal]

wr500 people are good imo, my last guild was on that rank but we still wouldnt really benefit from splits unless its from additional raid days

[vivid vessel]

Doing 2/3 splits already guarantee you have 4 p on every guy before the end of first reset

[vapid blaze]

tsets and some trinkets early on are mad powerful

espec with how strong some tsets are lol

[willow portal]

for the first weeks sure, and if the splits are fast. for 2-3 day guilds when a split eats like a full raid day its very fucked

[civic zephyr]

i mean it was my 3rd guild into mythic raiding, was alright, but im too slow and casual (lazy) for that rn

i think splits for like 2 weeks is fine

[willow portal]

we

[civic zephyr]

anything more and i just cba tho

[willow portal]

w

e

[vapid blaze]

idk its prob still somewhat efficient

[willow portal]

wtf sorry keyboard was stuck

we split like 5+ weeks

i think

[vapid blaze]

wtf

[civic zephyr]

if you only do 1 extra split weekly thats prolly why tho

[willow portal]

so you are saying more splits

[civic zephyr]

like if you sucked it up and did 3 split runs weekly

for 2 maybe 3 weeks if youre REALLY missing something big

[willow portal]

then we wouldnt raid

doing 3 splts is waaaay too much raiding on the "normal" 2-3 day timeline imo

[vivid vessel]

I mean idk it's very powerful for one day wasted imo

[civic zephyr]

yeah ig

[vivid vessel]

You realize you double your loot right

With one split

[willow portal]

i mean i am talking from what we did and i think we split too long and the items also dnt really help when you get stuck on the last bosses for 400 pulls

[vapid blaze]

well its mainly strong cause of tsets

once you cant use those anymore the value drops

[civic zephyr]

last time i did splits we did like almost 3 splits in 3 days and then were set to head into prog, with small splits on the side to grab a couple extra pieces

but this was with 1 extra day

just sending it

[willow portal]

when most progress time is here then the 5 weeks of 1 split seems useless

[vivid vessel]

I mean if you are a late progging guild it'd less relevant

You mostly need gear early on

[civic zephyr]

doing it for 5 weeks, its meh anyway

[vivid vessel]

If you are quick at prog

You can struggle

If you have no gear

[civic zephyr]

its only the first week or 2 where it makes a MASSIVE difference

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[willow portal]

the guilds logic was that we were splittng for court trinkets and rare rings from queen

[vivid vessel]

You are rank 400 or smth right

[vapid blaze]

idk that sounds so cooked

[civic zephyr]

no point doing it 5 weeks in when you can achieve the same giving up one prog night potentially, for tripling the loot on mains realistically in a week or 2

[vapid blaze]

its 1% dps on 1 player per split if you get it

[vivid vessel]

Ye doesn't seem worth to me

[willow portal]

in the last guild i was about 400(then they kicked me)
my guild i am now in again is:

[vivid vessel]

I think splits are mostly valuable for getting tier set week one

[civic zephyr]

idk the idea of it sounds cooked

[vivid vessel]

Then it's also for overgearing the hard first bosses

[vapid blaze]

early in the season 1 tset token can end up beein 10%+ dps

[vivid vessel]

That can be a wall

[vapid blaze]

its like not even close in value

[civic zephyr]

but im casual as fuck now and speaking from past experience

[vivid vessel]

But doing 5 week splits for a rank 400 guild might be a bit sus ye

[willow portal]

idk dont we just get free tier anyway

[vapid blaze]

espec sometimes tsets are 20-30% (plus ilvl)
getting those asap is kinda the point

[civic zephyr]

not week 1 or 2 really

which is why splits are so huge

[toxic star]

would be surprised if not

[civic zephyr]

its literally the diff between going into prog with barely 2 st on everyone, depending on rng, having 2 set on everyone and some with 4, itss a major difference early on

[fallen knot]

i'm probably doing week1 nm splits, but like, half the raid as mains and half as alts, and maybe some hc bosses, but just week1, guild is w700

[vapid blaze]

yeah thats prob the most reasonable thing you can do in regards to splits
just a week 1 kinda thing

espec last time around we didnt have m+ and mythic right?

[fallen knot]

maaybe week2 also but no idea

and

[vapid blaze]

we just had normal/heroic

[fallen knot]

it's mostly for tier and stuff, then realistically week3 we go into mythic

cause patch comes out in august, and in italy august is a sacred vacation month

[civic zephyr]

yeah we did nm/hc splits week one, and did an extra couple runs 1 day week 2 when people had extra gear to fill up slots

then just sent into prog

i kinda miss playing wow properly

im stuck as a casual now

[stone vault]

me too but i think resi's kinda unpredictable on the last week

i hope boosting doesnt get too wild

[toxic star]

boosting hardly has an impact

3810 seems reasonable as extrapolated

[stone vault]

but if the current cutoff is 3791

and we still have 15 days at most

it is kinda worrying ngl, especially that people wait for the final week to do the real push

and now resi is a thing

[toxic star]

thats not really a thing

theres also mop release literally today with will siphon ppl

[civic zephyr]

i think you will be fine just check again maybe 2-3 days before and send extra if you really nrrd kiro

youre still 100 score over cutoff atm

[toxic star]

they're EU

so they're only 25 ahead

assuming at least beacuse if youre not EU then theres 0 reason to worry

[civic zephyr]

i mean even still

25 is still p big at that rating anyway

[toxic star]

increase over the last 19 days is 19.6 so just slightly more than 1 point/day

[civic zephyr]

so just check again before and push another key or 2 if you REALLY need

[vivid vessel]

I think that's a remnant of the past when we had affixes

[toxic star]

and with 16 days left -> 3791+16

[vivid vessel]

And you had late pushs happening cause the good weeks might be like 4 weeks appart so it was more segmented

[stone vault]

oh thats actually a really good point

[stone vault]

yeah im only 25 above

[toxic star]

in which region would you even be 100 above with 3815

even us is 3776

[stone vault]

that is considering it only goes up 1 point per day

[civic zephyr]

i misread thier score

[toxic star]

yea but its not getting easier, so it wont speed up

[civic zephyr]

im a lil stupid LMAO

[toxic star]

if anything itll slow down

so weighing some speed up because last weeks against the increased difficulty slowing it down, a constant increase of 1 per day seems reasonable to me

[civic zephyr]

either way, worst outcome, you push 1/2 more keys max before cutoff

[toxic star]

yea just timer improvements

which are cheap

[civic zephyr]

you will be fine im sure

[stone vault]

boy yall comforted me

because im dreading the fact that ill have to do another damn 20 in a pug

[toxic star]

do you have a 20 dfc or ml

[stone vault]

yes its dfc, ml and top that i have

im betting the next one on the list should be workshop

but that third boss pull

[toxic star]

then id target the 19s for timer improvements if anything

[stone vault]

is very sus

[stone vault]

aye thats the plan currently

[vivid vessel]

Resilient timer spam is the most degenerate thing

I hate it

[toxic star]

r1 and r2 devoker are resi buyers, tell me about it

[vivid vessel]

I watched casual team stay in priory 21 for legit 2 weeks to get r1 priory

Depressing stuffs

Idk how their team didn't implode

[vivid vessel]

Yeeee

If you aren't playing a meta spec, getting outscored by buyers gotta be rough

But it's so easy to boost resi keys

[toxic star]

the r1 devoker posted a guide on the cn "discord" (some forum) and got mocked big time and called out on buying

[vivid vessel]

But oh well, I think resi keys have more positive than negatives so it's ok

[vivid vessel]

Remind me of someone

[toxic star]

yea idc about world rank, if id be pushing that we wouldnt only be playing casually

[vivid vessel]

R1 sub last season just bought his score

He came in here bragging about it