ok
#outlaw
proven ocean
tender wedge
I guess they don’t want people to have to run “old content” for power
lone spear
you type M ill type plus
proven ocean
dude
idk how i feel about the M_ season
no cappi
or
what do
ut
guys
think
of the new seaosn
?!?
proven ocean
spec is op
tender wedge
Shhh baby girl it’ll be ok
lone spear
no one plays the spec
proven ocean
wait till the physical comps show up
lone spear
why nerf
proven ocean
you'll see
everyone swapping to outlaw
because its literally underrated atm
well its doing too much dmg when ur playing it well
and not griefing
lone spear
theres the problem
lone spear
fotm players dont play well
tender wedge
You never know with zeross if it’s yap or trap
vapid blaze
why are you trying to gaslight people again huh
proven ocean
?
u didnt log in ptr or what
u realize its just zac thats getting annoyed everytime i say rogue is good right
even when its relaly good
lone spear
thats just zac things
vapid blaze
yeah its really good as a tank actually
proven ocean
ur hard coping if u think outlaw is doing tank dps
u realize it was top 5 on alot of raid bosses pre 10% buff right
tender wedge
Isn’t that the opposite of coping
proven ocean
acting clueless and all
lone spear
now we should be a lil better
proven ocean
everytime i talk here its either some 0 io guy that never looks at dps sheets of classes in ptr or someone who just acts like the world is ending
vapid blaze
for raid sure
still kinda doubt it, nobody plays this spec
proven ocean
if outlaw is good in raid
that means its broken in m
M_
cant type plus ffs
anyways
vapid blaze
aint no way you think that
lone spear
i mean the fact that there is no outlaw data on the sheet for 2nd last boss
is really fun
proven ocean
aint no way you think that
im curious how good are u in the game
because i wanna know why u think that way
im genuinely curious
vapid blaze
zac lost
to a monk tank yesterday
tender wedge
Where’s this sheet, I want to draw false conclusions
proven ocean
hes just gaslighting
vapid blaze
like multiple times
on multiple bosses
tender wedge
And read into it too much
proven ocean
he plays like shit in ptr
no offense to the guy
but he sucks in ptr
maybe he doesnt know how to play on ptr ping
vapid blaze
surely that means he just does half the dps of somebody else 🙂
proven ocean
but im doing way more dps than his numbers
proven ocean
surely that means he just does half the dps of somebody else 🙂
?
vapid blaze
its not even that his overall was bad
tender wedge
Maybe he’s just channeling his inner boomkin
tender wedge
And trying to sandbag like a champ
proven ocean
incase u didnt know
vapid blaze
zacs overall looked the same?
its not that the overall was bad
but kinda sucks you dont do prio huh
proven ocean
what are u talking about
lone spear
i mean its 1 ability that lacks the prio
proven ocean
im literally ahead of enh shaman
and hes greg
hes 4k io
on live
lmao
or someshit
lone spear
type shit
proven ocean
u realize that enh is really good
and im beating him in gambit
which is uncapped aoe btw
thats about the only real grp i played against everyone else im giga gapping
vapid blaze
i mean its 1 ability that lacks the prio
well
losing 10% or smth is kinda a big deal 🙂
not like outlaw has giga prio
lone spear
we are literally prio spec tho
olive beacon
I notice in the advanced rotation it says "hold vanish if killing spree and coup de grace are avail", I assume this just means when using it with ruthless precision/ supercharger and NOT holding it to extend adrenaline rush?
proven ocean
also the cope of outlaw doing less dps than live is giga wrong
tender wedge
Huh
lone spear
we hit a single target
proven ocean
we are literally prio spec tho
we aren't
lone spear
and the others die for fun
proven ocean
we never were prio specs
since s3 DF
that was the last tier where outlaw was the prio dmg spec
idk why u guys love to make things up in ur minds
olive beacon
or would the optimal usage be if AD is off cooldown you let it drop to send spree/ coup ?
lone spear
are we confusing prio with funnel?
tender wedge
I think so
lone spear
is priority not just "i can single target a priority target while still aoeing"
lone spear
oh helll no is funnel same as prio
tender wedge
Naw they’re diff
proven ocean
i know they're different
lone spear
funnel is "i do MORE to single target when its aoe"
tender wedge
Yap or trap see hard to know
proven ocean
most of our dps is cleave
if u want a good prio dmg spec
say fire mage
instead of acting dumb
vapid blaze
yeah you dont do good prio damage
youre a padder spec
that isnt even that good at padding caused capped no cd's 🙂
proven ocean
?
proven ocean
idk what ur talking about
outlaw doesnt have good prio dmg
every class can do "prio" dmg
wtf are u even saying
holy shit 
vapid blaze
i dont know if im getting gaslit
you legit arent a prio spec
proven ocean
idk why ur all intoxicated by zac's spam of calling me a gaslighter
hes literally hard coping 24/7 that outlaw is bad
and gets mad when i say it does good dmg
lone spear
ok now i know ur gaslighting cause i was legit just agreeing with u
tender wedge
What makes a spec a prio spec if not doing a much larger portion of your aoe damage to just one target?
lone spear
we do pure single target
and the stuff around us dies
thats the definition of priority
are u saying cause we have no burst
proven ocean
besides incase ur clueless ur cleave can even be stronger than ur st dmg on 2 target situations
lone spear
we cant like, quickly kill a priority target
tender wedge
Like is assass a prio spec then?
vapid blaze
well
thats how it works yeah
you dont actually end up doing good prio
proven ocean
brother
every class
has prio dmg
wtf are u even trying to say
are u new to the game or what
lone spear
ok but most have to give up something for it
tender wedge
I’m genuinely trying to figure out how you’re defining the different and you’re just there calling everyone stupid but saying nothing helpful lol
proven ocean
ok but most have to give up something for it
???????????????????
give me 1 example
lmao
olive beacon
Hey guys in the advanced rotation it says to hold vanish for spree/ coup. I assume this doesn't apply if AD is about to drop?
vapid blaze
Like is assass a prio spec then?
yeah assa has insane funnel
lone spear
MM cant just say "you know what, i'm gonna do AoE in st build"
and just start multi shotting
balmy topaz
Hey guys in the advanced rotation it says to hold vanish for spree/ coup. I assu...
Yeah you vanish over spree if AR has less than 5 seconds
olive beacon
whats the optimal play here, vanish if AD is not off CD and let it drop for spree/ coup if its off CD
olive beacon
Yeah you vanish over spree if AR has less than 5 seconds
ty bubbala
lone spear
i feel like we have a definition conflict here
proven ocean
and just start multi shotting
besides multi shot is only a button u press every few seconds like bladeflurry does that make us not a prio dmg spec?
since u seem like u dont even know how mm works
do you?
they press aimed shot al lthe time
even in aoe btw
which is identical to bte
lmao
balmy topaz
whats the optimal play here, vanish if AD is not off CD and let it drop for spre...
You always coup before vanishing
proven ocean
im curious whats ur io even
because i feel like u never pushed in ur life no offense
tender wedge
Oh shit here we go lol
olive beacon
okay I see, I've been trying to get BtE on cd before vanishing
lone spear
its not offensive, cause i dont do high keys cause i find it boring
i usually just raid
do keys for fun
olive beacon
urs makes more sens though
balmy topaz
okay I see, I've been trying to get BtE on cd before vanishing
Naa there’s no need to really
Just send it
proven ocean
its like im talking to a random guy i joined a grp who's doing a random weekly 10 key trying to tell me how outlaw even works
lone spear
i understand what u mean by prio now
tender wedge
No one is even arguing with you dog we don’t know what you mean and we’re asking you to explain???
lone spear
u mean like "guys quick swap to this target and kill it fast"
vapid blaze
not really
actually idk what zeross means
i doubt he himself knows
lone spear
lmao i am confused cause i said this earlier and he called me stupid
proven ocean
u mean like "guys quick swap to this target and kill it fast"
quick swap has nothing to do with prio and let me show you why, fire mage has the biggest prio dmg in the game because it spams pyroblasts and they cant swap targets because of ignite
lone spear
and a bunch of insults
tender wedge
He calls everyone stupid don’t feel bad
proven ocean
because you keep telling me im gaslighting every other sentence which i find very annoying
vapid blaze
if you do say first pull brewery
outlaw wont be topping the damage on muscles
proven ocean
because im genuinely curious on how you think of the word prio in the game
tender wedge
Ok so it’s a bursty thing then?
lyric steeple
Did outlaw get a buff in ptr?
vapid blaze
no its just you dont actually end up doing alot of damage to priority mobs
tender wedge
Or is it the inability to swap targets easily
proven ocean
no its just you dont actually end up doing alot of damage to priority mobs
yes except every class in the game does prio dmg its just a matter of how good/bad it is
tender wedge
Ok so then we’re talking about the proportion you do to the one main target? And you’re saying outlaw is relatively low?
vapid blaze
yeah and outlaw priority damage
isnt anything the spec is good at
even if it should be in theory
tender wedge
Ok I see now lol was that so hard
vapid blaze
and on ptr its even worse
tender wedge
I think they mean
proven ocean
yes, outlaw does bad st but now its kinda ok and good in ptr, the aoe is very high
we have very high cleave dmg
if thats what ur asking
but
tender wedge
Outlaw does less of its damage in aoe to the one target
proven ocean
our prio dmg is low
tender wedge
But that’s still like…a random line in the sand
proven ocean
Outlaw does less of its damage in aoe to the one target
depends if its 2 targets then its the highest in the game
vapid blaze
idk prio damage is kinda important
tender wedge
What proportion is enough to qualify as “good” prio
proven ocean
good prio is fire mage as a good example
vapid blaze
What proportion is enough to qualify as “good” prio
doing above average compared to other specs
proven ocean
^
lone spear
i mean its important, but isnt unholy like, full aoe
vapid blaze
like compare yourself
to arcane, havoc (on live, dunno about ptr)
lone spear
i dont think its needed to be a good m+ spec
tender wedge
Ok so it really is just variable season to season, but sure that definition works
lone spear
but it would be nice to have
proven ocean
i mean its important, but isnt unholy like, full aoe
well in live yea idk how good it is in ptr because no one plays udk in ptr now
proven ocean
i dont think its needed to be a good m+ spec
good prio dmg isn't needed no
vapid blaze
shu played it
but idk how its prio damage is
proven ocean
u usually have 1 class that nukes funel dmg
and takes care of everything in the dungeon
or
you optimize routes around that dmg profile
like zac's grp for example
vapid blaze
assa is also kinda good example
or feral
lone spear
ive heard good things about havoc
tender wedge
If you gave outlaw another 10% ST buff and another 10% BF nerf would it be prio 🤔
proven ocean
i was just confused by what u meant
i only troll zac no one else usually
vapid blaze
If you gave outlaw another 10% ST buff and another 10% BF nerf would it be prio ...
doubt it
lone spear
i only troll zac no one else usually
good to know 
vapid blaze
ptr design of killingspree is just bad
vapid blaze
if they change that alone
you all of the sudden have 10%+ more prio
lone spear
can you do stuff where the frontal cone only hits 1 target?
proven ocean
was way better to spread fazed imo
lone spear
like if you stand really close
proven ocean
but now like
idk why its a frontal
i wish it was like secret technique channel
it would've been way better
balmy topaz
ptr design of killingspree is just bad
Yeah and the cooldown nerf indirectly effects UB
proven ocean
instead of cannon barrage but i guess ppl love cannon barrage
but honestly
the concept is just not it for me
because
its not practical
to play that
vapid blaze
Yeah and the cooldown nerf indirectly effects UB
well im fine with that kinda idk
although live does flow very nicely
but having spells hit random mobs is just not a design of this decade
lone spear
they will probably move away/give the target option for all aoes
i think if they straight ripped them all out the oldies would riot
i would love the target option for firestorm as dev
balmy topaz
Yeah our damage profile is ass
Pretty much every class the does the same damage as us has a better damage profile and will bring more to the group that what we do
lone spear
could be worse
proven ocean
i would say our dmg profile is unique in live, but now its ass ye
balmy topaz
i would say our dmg profile is unique in live, but now its ass ye
Ye exactly
vapid blaze
its not just bad
its the worst in the game in most scenarios
its pretty good on 2t
but if there ever is a 2t boss like kurog
you will see PC just get nerfed
proven ocean
yes
lone spear
its just a damage profile that wont really ever be the best
vapid blaze
and then you are back to having no damage on low target count
proven ocean
raid boss
where like
'outlaw PUMPS at
cuz of 2t
it'll get 1000000% nerfed
like
giga gutted
because 1 thing u need to realize
is that
only a handful of players can play outlaw
vapid blaze
pc goes back to 2%
you never pick it again
they forget about it 3 years later
and the cycle continues
proven ocean
only a handful of players can play outlaw
and thats me being respectful
like
im being realistic here
lone spear
"can" is facetious, i think people can learn it
proven ocean
99.999999% of outlaws suck
lone spear
its just not many do
proven ocean
even the best outlaws are gonna suck on outlaw if they stop playing it for a month
so like
for it to be op on a raid boss
that means
on avg ppl are hard pumping outlaw on that boss
and 1 guy is gonna over pump his ass out the wazoo that his asshole is gonna be an open island
which means giga nerfs
lone spear
ive often considered playing a class with multiple specs i enjoy
balmy topaz
Ye
lone spear
but the only two (shaman and hunter) already so crowded in my guild
atlho not many shamans left
maybe its time to sneak in the enhance
tender wedge
ive often considered playing a class with multiple specs i enjoy
thats what im doing now 😄
balmy topaz
Mage would be the other for me tbh
lone spear
i wish i liked ass rogue more, but its just a bit too slow
balmy topaz
But im the only rogue
tender wedge
i also like all shaman specs but ditto, guild is floooooded
hardy thicket
thinking about it I think shaman is the only spec I'd consider having 2 fun specs lol
nah wait mage specs are all kinda cool
keen belfry
Honestly been tempted to more to fire mage or feral Druid
Fire mage very fun raid spec. Not a huge fan of it in m+
proven ocean
btw
incase none of u guys know about this
mage is getting a rework every week
on every ptr cycle
and rogue doesnt get shit
thank me later
balmy topaz
Although warlock is kinda cool
proven ocean
on every ptr cycle
im dead serious about this btw
every ptr cycle
mage gets a rework
to the better
balmy topaz
You’re not wrong zero
proven ocean
that is
proven ocean
i thought about swapping to mage many times because of this
but idk i invested so many years of my life to rogue that i can't be as good
hardy thicket
lel
tender wedge
not with that attitude
hardy thicket
how old are u even zeross
hardy thicket
if ur 24 u can invest time and get best at anything still
proven ocean
btw
hardy thicket
cool
proven ocean
i've been playing wow since TBC
wintry solar
That counts
hardy thicket
most of classes are mechanics and muscle memory its not like other parts of WoW is not going to transfer into other classes
like stop
just go play mage if u wanna be a good mage
lol
wintry solar
When I first started in vanilla I wasn't allowed to run dungeons because I wasn't allowed to talk to people.
proven ocean
idk why u make it seem that easy
hardy thicket
im not making it seem easy
proven ocean
u cant just be as good as qingxinsmile for example
hardy thicket
idk why u are making it seem impossible
proven ocean
because he played mage for so many years
and hes way better than every EU mage in the game
and most NA mages
i wouldn't be surprised if hes even as good as firedup
im sure he is
hardy thicket
but like saying its too late now
proven ocean
hes that good
hardy thicket
just a joke tho
hardy thicket
yeah
proven ocean
because like, say rogue
im sure no one can play same level as me, zac, casual, etc etc
hardy thicket
the years of experience transfer over to other things though
proven ocean
im being realistic here
hardy thicket
is what im saying
its not like ur starting from scratch
ur still playing the same game
proven ocean
anyone who swapped to rogue for 2-3 seasons aren't half as good on 1 spec even
hardy thicket
also consider outlaw being prolly the hardest spec
proven ocean
anyone who swapped to rogue for 2-3 seasons aren't half as good on 1 spec even
and they're giga good on their original mains
i mean
well which i find kinda funny is that i play fire mage better than gingi atleast
because hes so bad at it its unreal
no offense to the guy bue
but*
i think hes rly old atm
hardy thicket
gingi is a pretty good example actually
I cant comment on his skill as mage but just for the sake of argument lets say hes playing it subpar
hes still a RWF raider and renowned M+ player and he can prolly play most classes at an acceptable level and hes getting older ye so you being 24
just go play mage if u wanna be a mage
lol
vivid vessel
He won mdis this season
hardy thicket
^
hardy thicket
zeross
proven ocean
he can win all the mdi's he want hes a good tactical player
hardy thicket
ur saying experience matters yet u hate on people with 10x more experience than you
proven ocean
no wrong in that
but
as a dpser
hes no where as good as the others
not even close
hes very mid
hardy thicket
the guy shotcalls as well
proven ocean
i know
hardy thicket
ye so
proven ocean
hes the best m_er in the game (i cant type plus)
hardy thicket
?
proven ocean
but
hes not a good dpser to do big numbers
and im not comparing him on avg of players if u mean that
im comparing him to the top end
a real comparison would be
hardy thicket
ur saying hes playing mage bad (i dunno I cant comment on his mage cuz I know fuck all about mage)
proven ocean
better than most ppl up there
hardy thicket
lets say hes playing mage bad in comparison
to top end
hes still winning MDI
playing mage
calling shots
and ur saying
u cant play mage cuz u invested so much iunto rogue
civic zephyr
"youre right but im not listening" head ahh zeross, just play what you wanna play, you wanna learn mage, it really aint that difficult to get it started up, and picking up the niches and tricks within the specs to make it better are always going to be there
you wanna stick to rogue, then just play your rogue homie xD
proven ocean
nah i just wanna be good in 1 season
which
isn't possible
so
im sticking to rogue
hardy thicket
u can just literally like sit and play mage 8 hours a day starting now
and ull be decent enough in s3
proven ocean
idk i guess
civic zephyr
if it makes you feel better, im only just picking up outlaw, since sub is such a different spec
and im improving more and more daily
just playing casually while learning
and we are the same age, if not i might be slightly older since i turn 25 in 2 weeks LMAO
you will be fine learning shit comfortably
hardy thicket
I think personally that once you reach a certain skill and accumulate enough experience in this game you can pretty much play any class at at least 90% percentile level if you just invest time
easily
maybe not 99%
but 90% will do just fine for anything you want to compete in
like people do it all the time they swap classes like underwear to just accomdate for roster and balance
hardy thicket
ok 99,9% then
civic zephyr
incoming brooklyn 99 reference hope...
proven ocean
i think any spec or role is easy for me to be 99% good at but thats because i played the game more than 99.999% of all the players anyway
short heath
I would never play mage. Too many changes in the rotation and talents. Rogue on the other hand pretty simple. Played in df season 3 and came back in tww season 2 and still feels the same
hardy thicket
imagine u played rogue in DF S2 and came back then
kek
or last season of SL or DF S1 for that matter
Outlaw underwent the most changes its had in years tbh in DF
proven ocean
ya
for sure
ngl tho
idk whats going on but
rogue feels like its getting the most AI changes
of all the classes
like
idk
maybe its just me
but every single change i see is just made out of a robot not an actual person
like who the fuck designed assa tier set in s3
and killingspree barely spreading fazed
holy shmoly
civic zephyr
its so clear that the person making the rogue changes have never played rogue for more than 37 seconds
im convinced
chatgpt: how do we make outlaw worse but more piratey so people think its good changes
proven ocean
nah
he just logs in
checks if it functions and logs out
i doubt if its even realz anymore
cuz it feels like its a random ass doing the changes
long shiv makes -100 sense
not even "0 sense"
hardy thicket
I mean
wintry solar
chatgpt: how do we make outlaw worse but more piratey so people think its good c...
What was the last piratey thing we even got?
short heath
The thing is that there is only 1 person in charge of the class balance
short heath
Its impossible for one person to do that
proven ocean
on what long shiv is even trying to achieve
hardy thicket
I'll play devils advocate here but Realz was behind UHUH + Crackshot and DF S3 Havoc no?
he did a great job there
proven ocean
yes
wintry solar
I think so
proven ocean
he did
hardy thicket
too much hate
wintry solar
Great
civic zephyr
What was the last piratey thing we even got?
pewpew KS with the shitty pistols is the closest to piratey, rather than a ninja tp around the mob bullshit ig
proven ocean
but i honestly dont think hes working on rogue now man
thats why im mad
i feel like he just comes to check up and leave idk
tender wedge
hes answered a few bits and bobs in here fairly recently hasn't he?
proven ocean
he used to ask us what we think of certain things etc
now we just get surprise mf changes
civic zephyr
bring back realz
grim spear
starting from hero talents, something’s been off with DH and Rogue.
wintry solar
A farcry from what used to be
short heath
I like more ks ninja style. Felt like i was doin dmg. But the new pirate animation is kinda scuffed tbh
proven ocean
im just surprised
how
havoc and rogues
were happy in DF
and not now
thats why im saying why realz might not even be working for rogue
hardy thicket
starting from hero talents, something’s been off with DH and Rogue.
yuh
proven ocean
nah but fr tho
hardy thicket
Hero talents did make a mess
hardy thicket
but its like uh
lone spear
remember when it was tied to feint on beta 
grim spear
throughout the entire 11.0 ptr, these two classes barely received any changes
wintry solar
I want to try it on their test server lowkey
tender wedge
he last responded in here a month ago but it was about some ptr stuff
lone spear
he might just be cooking for midnight, does see a point in big changes now
grim spear
ridiculous
lone spear
thats my cope 
jolly geyser
Next exp its blind for dmg
grim spear
Then 11.1 was the same, and 11.2 too.
proven ocean
nah like
we complained about hero talents since day 1 alpha
like
the moment they released the rogue hero talents
DAY 1 WE COMPLAINED
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
like
they only fixed that feint shit
and still FORCED killingspree
and deathstalker's mark is shitty designed
goes off on many cases
grim spear
The names are actually pretty good though.
proven ocean
which makes ur gameplay so fucking bad
short heath
Ks is not a bad idea. It's poorly executed
proven ocean
and so many bad things man
like
no
its a bad idea
and poorly executed
both
dont give it credits because it sucks balls
and we both know that
short heath
Why bad ? The animation feels nice
proven ocean
i dont think the animation of any concern if it plays so fucking badly cuh
no cappi
like
look
i dont think animation can be in this discussion because its mostly about combat design, well you could argue that animation matters sure but
short heath
I dont get why the idea is bad. You feel like a true rogue who goes really fast and cuts everything down
proven ocean
its very bad because it disrupts your combat gameplay
u feel me
maybe its fine for a normal player
but
anything that makes ur gameplay worse
is REALLY bad for a top player
short heath
If they give it enough dmg it wont be bad for the top player
Its a matter of how much
jolly geyser
I dont like ks cause it can get you killed
short heath
Yeah thats the bad execution
jolly geyser
Then healer gets mad at you
civic zephyr
not everything is fixable by just making it hit harder, if its shit design, its just shit design, but the updated version also has many issues within itself
short heath
They should give a window after you end to react
proven ocean
also idk why killingspree now slows u for 20% when it doesnt even do dmg
wintry solar
I just hear many people saying they want all combat back ( 11112 spec )
(Un)kindly show them out the door
timid zephyr
On plebbit and youtubes
short heath
It slows but you can still move
proven ocean
like whats the fucking point if it has a chance of killing you because of the slow why wouldnt it do more dmg than most classes
like
its sacrificing movement speed
FOR LOWER DMG
civic zephyr
like if they made it channel faster, have prio damage as a minimum, id take it
agile orchid
on what long shiv is even trying to achieve
Doesn’t it benefit the bleed build?
jolly geyser
Ks do be ksing
civic zephyr
the reduced ms is also bullshit, like fists doesnt get get a slow for punching shit
proven ocean
mythic +10
civic zephyr
igy zero lmao
jolly geyser
Maybe kb broken zeross,need new one
civic zephyr
i got you
proven ocean
oh ok
agile orchid
So zeross, if outlaw was op before the buff, is it giga ultra op now?
proven ocean
overall dmg didnt move much really
short heath
We get ignored meanwhile boomies who nobody likes to play get all the good stuff
short heath
Anyone who plays laser chicken does it for the dps
agile orchid
So just OP?
proven ocean
wouldnt even say op if u compare it to the op specs like mage and mm
agile orchid
We get ignored meanwhile boomies who nobody likes to play get all the good stuff
Didn’t boomie get slapped hard with the tier set nerf
short heath
Didn’t boomie get slapped hard with the tier set nerf
They will still top DPS
Same with mm
proven ocean
like
civic zephyr
you can do mm damage, when you have a fully optimised team pulling specifically around outlaw
agile orchid
Mm is probably going to get more nerfs
short heath
I feel like we will see the same meta again. Might sub dk for mm
short heath
Mage is broken cause of class fantasy
proven ocean
hunter is op, rogue abit less but op still
civic zephyr
isnt it just another arcane mage season tho
short heath
Its mage and it can do everything
civic zephyr
yeah mage is nasty overall
proven ocean
than before
agile orchid
I doubt they will let it be meta for another season
proven ocean
they dont care about M
agile orchid
Better prepare for fire mage meta
civic zephyr
im stuck between sticking to my mage, or trying something new with playin outlaw properly
jolly geyser
10mages in raid
short heath
Mage is made with DND in mind i believe
short heath
I am a wizard i move my wand and i can do whatever i want
wintry solar
I am a wizard i move my wand and i can do whatever i want
Do they actually use wands?
proven ocean
like
wintry solar
Ever?
proven ocean
if something
isnt op
in raid
then
they dont give a shit if its banging out m_'s asses
short heath
Do they actually use wands?
Its a metaphor. They no longer use em i think
agile orchid
If that was true they wouldn’t bother nerfing unholy in season 2 multiple times
agile orchid
That’s still part of unholy
short heath
I think they nerfed the aoe in dk
agile orchid
Blood beast on release was absolutely dumb
proven ocean
bloodbeast didnt matter even if it didnt exist it would've still been top dps
ye it was but it wasn't why UH was op, it was the indication of it being broken sure but
agile orchid
I am surprised it took them so long to neuter it
proven ocean
later ppl realized
that
unholy is good by itself
not just bloodbeast
and
reason why im saying this
is because
agile orchid
Is sub any good on ptr?
proven ocean
arcane doesnt have such a thing
nah
sub is actually so bad
its unreal
its only good in raid
also
sub is always inflated in M_
ALWAYS
agile orchid
What is it lacking in m+? Aoe damage?
proven ocean
i dont recall anyone playing sub this season except me and lashga who was cooked if u ask me, with the current playstyle of how sub works it does its dmg in a limited window and apart from that it starts to do tank dps which is quite the opposite of what a high key wants
high key needs constant rly good dmg
and sub doesnt have even half of it
sub's dmg is based on sectech which u only have limited uses of anyway and it doesnt do good dmg at all apart from being in shadowdance which uhave 0 uptime of
and that scales worse the higher key level u go
which ppl aren't even close to their limits in M atm
M_
civic zephyr
M+
proven ocean
M+
civic zephyr
there you go
agile orchid
Unlucky
proven ocean
no one even pushed M+ this season on sub
only me i think
i really played it alot ngl
but
like
its hard to know early on
but
proven ocean
the more i played the more i realized it sucks even more the higher u go
brisk meadow
There were 2 keys that you played sub on or?
proven ocean
i played it a lil, i didnt push on it tho
i pushed rly hard
proven ocean
There were 2 keys that you played sub on or?
early on i pushed sub on all keys
24/7
agile orchid
I don’t push high keys, but I tried it on some 14s and I feel like it loses steam very fast
proven ocean
and no one rly played sub so ye
proven ocean
yeah only rookery last boss
thats it really
assa is better in ToP but its way harder to pull off and play tho
assa in ToP is super hard
atleast the current build that is
teal dust
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
proven ocean
atleast the current build that is
ofc only in the highest keys
not a random M+10 key
because ToP is also one of the hardest keys to stay alive individually which sin isn't great at really
agile orchid
It feels so bad to press feint as sin 
proven ocean
it just does nothing
feint is so weak even with elusiveness
we need elusiveness and cheatdeath being baseline
agile orchid
Well you don’t stack vers like outlaw and sub does
proven ocean
otherwise rogue is gonna always stay so squishy for no fucking reason
yes but thats only if u have veers
which is shit design imo
agile orchid
So it’s noticeable
proven ocean
make rogue tanky
it used to be so tanky back in the days
in WoD
etc
back when cheat death was an actual cheat death
it was like
2 min cd or someshit i dont remmeber
short heath
Thats broken though
brisk meadow
Do you play next season or no zeross
proven ocean
Do you play next season or no zeross
idk yet
but
if u mean pushing then no
not gonna happen
brisk meadow
Why
proven ocean
way too burned out
brisk meadow
Oh
agile orchid
What is the cd on fire mage cheat death?
proven ocean
i played more than everyone possibly
i played like
24/7 from day 1 ptr of season 2
throught out all of it
till my healer quit
civic zephyr
What is the cd on fire mage cheat death?
2m i think
proven ocean
idk i do coaching sometimes
brisk meadow
Like you do in here
proven ocean
sometimes for free but
now i kinda charge because i cba
not playing the game much so ye
agile orchid
2m i think
What a joke
civic zephyr
What a joke
mage is blizzards poster baby for wow tho
novel socket
oi zeross
civic zephyr
itss the fave child
proven ocean
Take the early farm of next season
what farm
novel socket
couldn't sub be viable in high keys on a comp that lacks boss dmg
but has huge aoe dmgs for trashes
proven ocean
couldn't sub be viable in high keys on a comp that lacks boss dmg
no
sub has bad dmg profile
also
brisk meadow
Like people thirsting for guides and Tips w/e
proven ocean
comps that lack boss dmg shouldn't do high keys
brisk meadow
And bang out some youtube vids
proven ocean
comps that lack boss dmg shouldn't do high keys
cuz they'l automatically not be viable
brisk meadow
Shit like that
proven ocean
thats why zac was crashing out on outlaw lately it was weak on ST
which means
otulaw shit in high keys
but now we got a 10% buff so
all good i guess
brisk meadow
Because sometimes you get mistaken here
novel socket
so how do specs like ret work in high keys ?
they can either do boss dmg or aoe dmg
not both
proven ocean
so how do specs like ret work in high keys ?
ret is super bad
its unbelievably bad
like
if u have a ret
keep that in mind
brisk meadow
I feel like if you put your thoughts gathererd in a Video you would actually profit from it
novel socket
hmm
proven ocean
ur automatically -1 minute
on a funnel dung that is
for whoever was here during the prio dmg discussion
ret is one of those shitty ass classes
that cannot do prio dmg
answer is
dont bring a ret
but they buffed it recently on ptr so idk how good it'll be
brisk meadow
DIVINE STORM
wintry solar
They should stay in the arenas and out of the keys
I've never seen a ret use utility on other people other than that freedom talent granting a party member freedom
brisk meadow
I got an loh yesterday
timber zephyr
can double outlaw time 20 rookery? i saw a run who has it but i think they bug abused? https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-tww-2/31250214-20-the-rookery
brisk meadow
Speak for yourself buddy
plush swan
can double outlaw time 20 rookery? i saw a run who has it but i think they bug a...
ngl if poahrogue was there it woulda been ++
timber zephyr
I know you outlaw players are abusing coup da grace bug again
vivid vessel
aren't you guy on allstars bug abusing to try and beat udks?
No
brisk meadow
Mfer Looks like out of attack on titan
proven ocean
can double outlaw time 20 rookery? i saw a run who has it but i think they bug a...
wdym we were able to time it r1 world even many weeks ago
but i was playing sin cuz i practiced it as sin
vivid vessel
I know you outlaw players are abusing coup da grace bug again
Also funny thing it's our tier set in s3
proven ocean
they're both the same in rookery
plush swan
i think sin uses daggers
proven ocean
and the dmg profile
timber zephyr
you guys aren't fooling anyone
your the only people doubleing up on classes to time 20s
bug abusers
proven ocean
pretty sure we do very similar boss dmg, sin abit higher
tough salmon
Why is outlaw discord doubling ad brewmaster refugee disc
plush swan
Why is outlaw discord doubling ad brewmaster refugee disc
cus monk discord is terrible
timber zephyr
Aren't you luckylee
no I'm unluckylee
vivid vessel
I heard brew discord was boring
tough salmon
Poah in here too
vivid vessel
Outlaw discord is full of content
plush swan
peak of serenity is a cess pool
proven ocean
cus monk discord is terrible
didnt know ur name was zigee
vivid vessel
no I'm unluckylee
Is that different
proven ocean
how are u zigee
quasi ether
Aren't you luckylee
this disc is way better then warriors aswell
vivid vessel
You look like a guy who would be named luckylee
plush swan
how are u zigee
i'm doin well, how are u zerossxd?
torpid fiber
real talk someday I should join another class discord to understand why ppl always meme on them bc I can't imagine it being that awful
vivid vessel
this disc is way better then warriors aswell
Ye I know right
tough salmon
cus monk discord is terrible
Not wrong
proven ocean
real talk someday I should join another class discord to understand why ppl alwa...
here
its
like
wait
let me explain
timber zephyr
please explain the bug abuse first
proven ocean
DANGER AHEAD EXTREME YAPPING INVOLVED TAKE YOUR PRECAUSIONS BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO ENTER YOU MIGHT DROWN IN YAPPINGNESS
v
thats outlaw channel
proven ocean
please explain the bug abuse first
wER;P'KDLJMFLARSEPIFKJRSAMGLK;AERDNJMG
timber zephyr
I guess I have to ask the most powerful rogue player rather than you bug abusers
vivid vessel
please explain the bug abuse first
Outlaw gamers are able to press more buttons cause they ascended
plush swan
I guess I have to ask the most powerful rogue player rather than you bug abusers
what do you want to know?
proven ocean
capi
timber zephyr
@dense forge please explain coup da grace bug
torpid fiber
