outlaw

[proven ocean]

u cant

[random stirrup]

that does seem quite strong

[proven ocean]

play it

[vivid vessel]

Ye which is never really prefered

[proven ocean]

its a gcd ofc u cant play it

[hasty warren]

bf nerf inc ?

[proven ocean]

gcd's cost alot on outlaw

again

that nerf

is way bigger than u think

it nerfs this too

[covert heart]

ITS HUGE

[proven ocean]

on top of us having less uptime

on flawless form

so

outlaw is getting fked rn

[proper bear]

So we’re cooked?

[proven ocean]

and we dont have good fazed uptime because

KS barely works

every 3 mins

cringe ass shit

so u lose alot of 10% crit

especially when swapping

basically

u cannot swap

if u do

u lose crit

u lose crit? surprise u lose a shit ton of dmg

[trail plinth]

Are they trying to make us play fatebound?

[keen belfry]

Can someone tell me how good or bad these numbers are ty

[proven ocean]

because BTE scales with crit dmg

[proven ocean]

no more target swapping

because new KS design sucks

[vivid vessel]

outlaw now does similar st to live, but 10% less aoe

take this as you want

[white marten]

So we need another 10% buff. got it

[random stirrup]

with rp it doesn't make a difference because most have 10% crit from gear already so bte is already capped

especially next season with more ilvl

but ya with no rp gg

and no buffs because no s2 tier

[proven ocean]

i think st is higher in ptr by alot

compared to live

its just aoe thats less

[frank finch]

similar st with trickster? i assume fb is higher then live

[proven ocean]

but it is what it is

[vivid vessel]

why

we kinda were doing dog poop st on ptr

in raid

maybe its higher baseline compared now idk

maybe

[glass mortar]

Fatebound should be substantially higher its new tier set is like 10% higher then lives innit

[vivid vessel]

If we just are AOE blaster now idk why not I guess

[keen inlet]

see you guys in midnight when they rework (copium) outlaw

[vivid vessel]

Ye but you can't look at it this way you still have to compare to other specs

[glass mortar]

I mean its clear the intention is aoe is fine st not

Yes I know

[vivid vessel]

Your baseline is higher but if everyone baseline is higher

[red zinc]

zac kinda devils advocate but

[vivid vessel]

It isn't

Ye

You can say outlaw is too strong on live

[red zinc]

i doubt the average person will lose 10% aoe

since like

[vivid vessel]

What

[red zinc]

nobody was using ks optimally at all

[proven ocean]

outlaw is gonna get shit tunings when shit goes live because of fatebound showing that outalw does fine st

[vivid vessel]

No

[proven ocean]

good one blizzard

[glass mortar]

These effects r completely agnostic to gameplay lol

[vivid vessel]

It's a 10% bf nerf lol

50 to 45 is 10%

[glass mortar]

These aren't targeted at certain aspects of ur damage

[red zinc]

oh 10% like that

[glass mortar]

This is all aoe and all st

[red zinc]

thought you were comparing numbers in totality

[vivid vessel]

Ye

I ignored the ks bullshit

Idk how relevant it is

[glass mortar]

Did something KS change again

[red zinc]

feel like most people will do more damage now when patch releases

[vivid vessel]

than live ?

no they wont

how

[glass mortar]

Doubt it

[red zinc]

before we get gear and everythin

the ks holding was vrazy

[glass mortar]

I'm piss content u could KS on cd and never take damage wdym

[cinder oxide]

no one's holding it that much for it to be super significant

[glass mortar]

For ur average player KS wasnt even dangerous

[vital wave]

do we know if blizz will release another class tuning before release of S3 @vivid vessel ?

[vivid vessel]

You are nerfed by 10% In AOE via bf, and all the uptime AOE stuffs of trickster are lower which lower your aoe by a little number

[proven ocean]

flawless form uptime is cut in half, most of its uptime is gonna come from autoattacks themselves

[glass mortar]

What

[proven ocean]

-25% BF dmg

its not really really cut in half but

[glass mortar]

They nerfed kspree cd again?

[proven ocean]

most of it is gonna be auto atk now

[vivid vessel]

No

When

[proven ocean]

no ur reading this wrong weran

KS brings coups

[fossil lintel]

It's a 10% nerf to base bf but anything that increases bf damage and wasn't change is now stronger

[proven ocean]

coups = more flawless form uptiem

[fossil lintel]

Like pc

[mighty pivot]

FF uptime is not cut in half, in fact it's very similar

[proven ocean]

no coup = less flawless form uptime

and live casts KS alot basically

[glass mortar]

Did they nerf how often KS gives u unseen?

Today

[proven ocean]

no

[glass mortar]

Or r u talking about how law has been

For a month

Like we didn't all know this

For a month

[proven ocean]

well

[glass mortar]

Yes we get less fazed

[proven ocean]

yes

because

[glass mortar]

We all knew that

[vivid vessel]

If bf does less damage it does less damage as well no?

[proven ocean]

i didnt realize this weran

the -25% BF dmg

[glass mortar]

While u posted everyday about how op law was

[proven ocean]

talent

from trickster

[glass mortar]

Welcome to 4 weeks ago

[proven ocean]

nah

[red zinc]

the uptime isnt cut in half

[fossil lintel]

Doesn't it increase a flat %?

[red zinc]

solo said it was like

[proven ocean]

dont go back to where that was

[vivid vessel]

True

[red zinc]

93% now

[proven ocean]

because thats irrelevant

[red zinc]

instead of 100

you have less stacks sure

[proven ocean]

thats sims only

idk why ur mentioning sims

u dont have 100% uptime in real m+

[red zinc]

you arent going to have 50% uptime

[fossil lintel]

Yeah, but it's 93% of 110% ST damage now

[proven ocean]

i didnt say that

at all

i said

KS cuts it in half

and

tier increases it

which makes u rely on autos

[vivid vessel]

Ok but your st is going to be similar to live tho

It's not like your st will be higher

You will have the same baseline

[fossil lintel]

Oh yeah not saying we aren't fucked

[proven ocean]

its like saying AR is 99% uptime

why isn't zac getting that

[vivid vessel]

Unless you are saying we will be tuned 10% higher than every class in the game in st suddenly

[frank finch]

sso what your saying is

[proven ocean]

or me or anyone

[vivid vessel]

Which won't be the case

[fossil lintel]

Just saying that the aoe nerf ends up less than 10%

[proven ocean]

because that just doesnt happen

in real keys

[frank finch]

u feel another buff coming?

[red zinc]

naw

[covert heart]

I mean this may not even be the last buff

[vivid vessel]

Nolol

It's the last buff

[red zinc]

uncs going on vacation

[vivid vessel]

And it's a nerf so

[proven ocean]

ye we will get a aoe buff

[glass mortar]

i mean its just a new tuning scale and we will see how strong we are with it

[fossil lintel]

Trickster increases bf damage by a flat % as well, no?

[covert heart]

They could revert the bf shit if it doesnt workout stuff like that

[glass mortar]

who knows zac maybe we will be "strong" st and aoe will be enough

if they nerf all the op guys

[proven ocean]

if im being realistic here

[glass mortar]

but yea i dont see them buffing our aoe

[proven ocean]

i dont think outalw is good enough

[vivid vessel]

Iwe are always strong in st

[proven ocean]

the way it is rn

the BF nerf isn't good

[vivid vessel]

But you won't be 10% stronger than every spec in the game

[glass mortar]

i mean real strong st zac like top 5

[vivid vessel]

So it's just a 10% AOE nerf

[real valley]

@vivid vessel ok but unless st builds change a lot from aoe m+ builds u might be stronger or weaker in m+ scenario cuz they tend to even out specs in a st scenario no?

[frank finch]

no buff but stil chance for ks changes?

[vivid vessel]

weaker yes

[glass mortar]

the amount we scale into aoe with targets got nerfed

[vivid vessel]

cause they even out st

which is my whole point

[glass mortar]

our relative damage pattern

is what zacs talking about

[vivid vessel]

you will do the same st relatively

but 10% less aoe

[glass mortar]

so like before if everyone was tuned to do 100 damage on st in raid

u did 800 damage in aoe

now u do 720

[vivid vessel]

10% less aoe is quite a big number

[glass mortar]

thats what zac is saying

[vivid vessel]

unless im stupid

its like

big numba

[fossil lintel]

Yeah, it's a weird change tbh

[vivid vessel]

but again

let me ask this

[bright lodge]

It's reverse order patch notes. 50%-10%=45%+10%=49.5%

[glass mortar]

our relative aoe scaling went down, the number we were doing in aoe didnt actually changeo n ptr really

[vivid vessel]

do you think live outlaw needs a 10% aoe nerf

[fossil lintel]

They should first tune ST to be competitive with other specs and then look at tuning bf

[vivid vessel]

if your answer is yes then this change is fine

[real valley]

yea but for example, u do less 5% in m+ build than st raid variant and other specs deal 15% less then u re ahead in m+ and even in tuning scenarios no? (im making up numbers)

[vivid vessel]

otherwise this change is fucked

[glass mortar]

sure if the ytuned everyone else down in aoe too

or somehow outlaw scaled better in aoe then other specs by design

that would be the only way the bf change wouldnt be a net power nerf

[vivid vessel]

idk what this means, but no you are just worse in aoe than live

[glass mortar]

assuming our st is the same as other good people

[vivid vessel]

relatively

[fossil mountain]

Outlaw can never be good hahahahhahaa comedy blizzard

[vivid vessel]

this is quite a big change

imo will have big impact

10% aoe is big

[red zinc]

I mean its just kinda overthink on that end

[vivid vessel]

and this doesnt account for losing uptime on trickster stuffs

[red zinc]

they thought outlaw aoe was fine on ptr but wanted to buff st

[vivid vessel]

yes

[red zinc]

so they made a net neutral change in their eyes

[proven ocean]

[vivid vessel]

its classic blizzard tho

[red zinc]

didnt give it much more thought than that

[vivid vessel]

yes i know

[glass mortar]

i mean idk i feel like theyve rejigged bf up and down a bit over this expac and

fuck this is just a PC tax zac

our whole profile

is getting PC taxed

[vivid vessel]

i know

[glass mortar]

fuck this talent man

get me out

[vivid vessel]

without pc your aoe is abmysall

idk

[glass mortar]

mhm

baseline

[vivid vessel]

this change is genuilly bad

[glass mortar]

[red zinc]

pc only exists because of bugs

[vivid vessel]

but like

the issue is

no one will understand

its a bad change

[glass mortar]

i mean

[vivid vessel]

cause its a 10% aura buff

[glass mortar]

it could end up we are still strong

really depends how other people look

and how big our aoe was gunna be

[vivid vessel]

you still do 10% less aoe than live so idk

[fossil lintel]

I get what you mean zac

[vivid vessel]

more than 10%

and again like

if you think outlaw on live aoe

[bright lodge]

And next time they will buff Grand Melee for +5% cuz we need AOE buff don't we?

[vivid vessel]

is too strong

then sure

whatever

[red zinc]

end of the day they are trying to balance the game

if they see something is fine they aint touching it

[vivid vessel]

but take it as a live nerf

and think

is it fine

to nerf outlaw aoe on live

by 10%

[covert heart]

I mean i did think outlaw was really strong

[vivid vessel]

ye sure

its played by no one tho

and only in full buffed comps

[glass mortar]

i feel like if u applied all changes on ptr + this 10% aura tho ud have a net buff to live ST now?

[vivid vessel]

and it doesnt bring a raid buff

[fossil lintel]

Have we told them KS duration is not fine enough so they change it?

[novel socket]

buffs

[glass mortar]

which would be a net aoe buff as well no

[novel socket]

[glass mortar]

relative to live aoe

[vivid vessel]

thats irrelevant tho, you always end up in the same point in the end

raid tuning is alwasy good

and most spec end up doing the same st

or you get me

right

[glass mortar]

well u dont tho, where u end up relative to the whole pack can move up or down ~10%

[vivid vessel]

you wont be 10% ahead

[glass mortar]

sure

well u might end up 10% ahead of the worst spec

usually stuff is within that margin

but it can be that high

but yea i know what u mean

[vivid vessel]

i mean dude you know

idk

maybe nerfing live outlaw aoe by 10%

is fine ?

[red zinc]

yall played too much ptr is the real problem

[vivid vessel]

you wont be topping metters anymore tho

[stuck patrol]

Zac, why is it a 10%+ need to our aoe when it's a 5% buff to our aoe at first glance?

[vivid vessel]

so

[glass mortar]

well itd be less right

[vivid vessel]

whats the point

[novel socket]

was the blade flurry nerf tho needed ?

[stuck patrol]

Not wanting to fight, just trying to understand

[red zinc]

shouldve sandbagged and gotten like 4 heroic week logs

[covert heart]

Agreed haha

[novel socket]

even with the 10% ability buff

[glass mortar]

say we are 5% strong on live rn, with these changes then what our st is on live where its tuned against everyone

that would mean a net aoe buff on live, minus 10% nerf

so maybe like 4-5% aoe nerf

idk its hard to tell

i hate getting taxed for a talent i hate tho

[covert heart]

I mean we will def top keys unless you are the .1 percent where that can have a huge variance

[stuck patrol]

Does this account for the 10% aura buff?

[vivid vessel]

realistically our aoe is 15% lower prolly cause of ks cd also

cause you lose ff uptime and fazed

fazed was 5%

idk how much you lose

[glass mortar]

do u actually lose fazed uptime thats relevant thp

[vivid vessel]

but add up both

[glass mortar]

or is it just

[vivid vessel]

ye idk

[glass mortar]

target switching cringness

[rocky kiln]

If the damage going into BF is up to 110% then the AOE nerf is .5%

[vivid vessel]

everytime i target swap

i dont have fazed

[glass mortar]

which is cringe and a problem

[vivid vessel]

before i always had it

so

[glass mortar]

just hard to quantify

yaya

[vivid vessel]

surely yuou lose some

[red zinc]

DO NOT play precise cuts on fel hunters boss in first week of raid guys

[random stirrup]

well fazed increases bf damage

[red zinc]

DO NOT

[rocky kiln]

We previous had 50100 now it’s 45110

[vivid vessel]

someone explain this guy '

[mighty pivot]

you don't seem to lose FF uptime, but fazed does get applied less especially multi-target without KS so often ready

[vivid vessel]

i explained 10 times already

im tired

[red zinc]

just stop explaining it unc

go to bed

[glass mortar]

they nerfed the profile

thats zacs issue

the ST buff is just tuning relative to other classes. the bf nerfs how you scale into aoe period forever

[rocky kiln]

Right

But relative to live it’s a net 0.5% change in AoE no?

[glass mortar]

relative to ptr its a 0.5% change in aoe

[vivid vessel]

especially relative to live

[novel socket]

aoe nerf cringe

[glass mortar]

relative to live who the fuck nows

[novel socket]

we are hard capped

[vivid vessel]

its a big nerf lol

[glass mortar]

should be a nerf

[rocky kiln]

It’s stupid balancing I agree

[novel socket]

how about they nerf the stupid chicken

microwave it

[rocky kiln]

all my homie hate the laser chicken

[covert heart]

The lazer chicken got hit today thats nice

They should target cap them to 4 targets though for good measure

[novel socket]

hunter nerfs next

[covert heart]

Mm got hit

And so did bm

[haughty wigeon]

deserved

[glass mortar]

and shadow

[fossil lintel]

And frost dk

[novel socket]

and deva nerfs after that

[red zinc]

great patch honestly

gutting udk and ret pala

[covert heart]

Frost dk got nailed

[novel socket]

good

people were yapping so much about fdk

last week

[covert heart]

12% ability damage nerf

[fossil lintel]

Eh 12% aura nerf, it was pretty over the top

[novel socket]

dk had two seasons in row being meta

[bright lodge]

But even with the linger cd on KS we have +30% chance to UB which goes big for fazed uptime isn't it?

[glass mortar]

its ok their raid buff will save them

[covert heart]

What they do to ret?

[vivid vessel]

no cause thats st only, ks applied fazed on aoe

[bright lodge]

And KS now strike everyone applying fazed

[vivid vessel]

fazed doesnt directly cleave

you need fazed on all targets

[glass mortar]

ks always applied fazed to everyone

[vivid vessel]

for bf to cleave 5% more

[glass mortar]

now it just does it half as often

[vivid vessel]

it did that alreaedey

just more often

[inner meadow]

numbers ain't my thing. Is the new patch a nerf or buff for us in aoe?

ik it's a buff in st

[vivid vessel]

its a 10% aoe nerf related to live outlaw tuning

[red zinc]

it doesnt change aoe relative to previous ptr cycles

[bright lodge]

Oh. I thought we only apply fazed on main target on KS on live, mb

[vivid vessel]

10% is a pretty sizeable number so idk

good time to give us back 2 fth in keys i feel like

pc up please

[glass mortar]

i agree

delete this 1 fth nonsense ty

before i go back to kir

👋

[dawn talon]

i really like 1fth though

[vivid vessel]

eh idk

[haughty wigeon]

increase its st and nerf its aoe

[vivid vessel]

i got tired of the rng

[glass mortar]

1 fth without broadside

🙂

1fth without this tier set that adds like 15% average uptime to BS

🙂

[stuck patrol]

Wait, new KS doesn't apply fazed to all targets it hits???

[glass mortar]

it does

u just cast it half as often

so the uptime on aoe fazed went down alot

[stuck patrol]

Ah

[glass mortar]

which makes target swapping pretty fukin cringe

since coup doesnt give u stacks of flawless if the target isnt fazed

🙂

[stuck patrol]

They need to make killing spree have it's CD on live, but allow you to keep using other abilities while it's casting

[proven ocean]

NERF BUFF NERF BUFF AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

relax chat

no cappi

[bright lodge]

Nerf zeross

[vivid vessel]

Hm

I'm actually depressed now

[inner meadow]

it's okay

[vivid vessel]

I don't like getting nerfed wtf

[inner meadow]

next patch is gonna be "blade flurry is now uncapped"

[vivid vessel]

I feel the loss of aoe

It's escaping me rn

I'm looking at my live overalls

And I'm saying goodbye

[proven ocean]

💀

[tranquil cobalt]

same haha

[stuck patrol]

How potent is the copium you just snorted, Jesus Christ

[inner meadow]

let a man believe!

[bright lodge]

We have at least 2 weeks of patches ahead, am I right?

[chilly atlas]

casters get to be uncapped but not outlaw? it's not right

[vivid vessel]

Ok but they aren't reverting this

[tranquil cobalt]

i miss BFA outlaw 🥲

[proven ocean]

bfa outlaw

was the only good outlaw

other than s3 DF

[chilly atlas]

i felt like we back in s3 of df, but then they were like nah

[vivid vessel]

bro 10% is a loooooot

I'm actually dooming hard rn

[bright lodge]

May be they won't revert this change exactly, but will buff grand melee or other things

[vivid vessel]

Sin chat about to say I doom everytime outlaw get buffed

I deserve it

Fuuuuk

[vast scroll]

/looks at sin chat..

[vivid vessel]

Is it over chat

[glass mortar]

i mean this is going to move ur dungeon dps up by like 3% on ptr

4% maybe

not enough ig?

[burnt tangle]

Time to goon

[vivid vessel]

no cause you also lose monk buff

-3% gg

[glass mortar]

true monk buff gone

but its 3-4% regardless of comp

[vivid vessel]

haha

[glass mortar]

that would be good in a vacuum

u asaid u didnt want us to rely on monkerbuffs

😠

but yea idk i guess they thought our aoe was too high on ptr

or was high enough at least

[vivid vessel]

💀

[glass mortar]

since its not moving down

[vivid vessel]

no

[glass mortar]

on ptr

[vivid vessel]

i think they jut

[azure vortex]

Zac has his own pocketmonk

[vivid vessel]

"we do 10% st buff so we do 10% aoe nerf"

cause its blizzard

i dont think they tought about it more than that

i think pc is also problematic in raid

but thats on them

they created the talent

i dont want to be shit in m+ cause of a talent being too strong in raid

[glass mortar]

do u think pc only got this bad because we refused to take it for years probably cause it was bugged and never working moreso then its tuning even

[vivid vessel]

no

[haughty wigeon]

new outlaw fix out

[vivid vessel]

i think blizzard is dumb and couldnt just put pc above

pc is stupid

its a low target cleave talent

but you lose st by takling it

hm

[near rock]

raid is the only thing that matters anyway

[hybrid granite]

Am I being stupid or isn’t the BF nerf 5%

[hybrid granite]

So I’m being stupid

Ok cool

[inner meadow]

i feel so stupid. Isn't the outlaw just itself

[vivid vessel]

No

Np

[inner meadow]

no nerf

[vivid vessel]

Aaah

[inner meadow]

but the monk buff

[vivid vessel]

I beg solo to wake up

And make a pin

[inner meadow]

ahhaahhaha

[vivid vessel]

I'm on my knees rn

I sent this to solo this is my explanation

Idk if it's good enough to understand

Im bad at explaining sometimes

[gusty cipher]

Isn’t it a net buff tho, cleave/aoe stays pretty much the same due to 10% bf nerf but st hits much harder?

[bright lodge]

It's ok, zac. Wish you strengh. Thanks for explanations

[gusty cipher]

oh nvm that’s exactly what the screenshot says it does not

[inner meadow]

ur perfect

[vivid vessel]

No my screen says the opposite cuh

[inner meadow]

don't woeery

[hybrid granite]

I completely get it now thank you

[vivid vessel]

[hybrid granite]

Do you like my cats office outfit?

[vivid vessel]

Ye it's good

[bright crane]

Wanna bet they used ChatGPT for this

[fresh acorn]

Like I’ve my bte was doing 100 damage, and BFing for 50. Now it’s doing 110 and BFing for 49.5. So it’s a slight nerf I guess

[frank finch]

Is it time to play around with the smoke bomb talent

[gusty cipher]

but the baseline from now to ptr was nerfed so in the end it’s a nerf. Quite substantial as it’s 10% aoe loss lmao tf

[bright lodge]

The thing is you still BTEing for 100 but BFing for 45 compared to live

[bright crane]

Why was sin buffed so hard?

[vivid vessel]

Idk they always do that

[glass mortar]

Zac I just want u to know that while I get what ur saying

If foreverguy comes in here and sees u rn

[vivid vessel]

i know

[glass mortar]

Never beating the allegations

[vivid vessel]

i know bro ..

[glass mortar]

That's all I say

[cinder relic]

Because sin sucks

[vivid vessel]

oh shit

[past falcon]

ope

[vivid vessel]

ok nvm we good

[glass mortar]

!!

[cinder relic]

Sin also got like a 4% buff

[vivid vessel]

i tought he was going to call me a doomer never happy

crying about buffs

[wicked ether]

Blade Flurry Nerf was only the first step so that they erase the target cap next week

[vivid vessel]

I said it first tho so he cant say it anymore

litteraly imuned

[haughty wigeon]

they got more blueposts tho

surely that menas

they got bettererer buffs

[cinder relic]

I mean my honest opinion is that rogue looks quite good

[haughty wigeon]

same

but its bad

so

gotta cancel ks for a sub.5% gain

[vivid vessel]

i mean with these last buffs they are definitly not touching ks channel so

its over

they iterated a grand total of 0 times on ks

gg

good work team

[bright crane]

MSFT layoff baby

[haughty wigeon]

what if

[bright crane]

Welcome to corporate America baby

[haughty wigeon]

we use nothing but haste trinkets

for giga fast ks

[bright crane]

Pay the same, get less for it

[gusty cipher]

how is it good if it’s barely as strong as baseline now in ST and just took a fuckin dunk of a 10% aoe nerf

[vivid vessel]

haste still sucks my guy

[haughty wigeon]

i believe in it

[mighty pivot]

the ryukage special

[spark forge]

Lets put target cap. So people dont degen pull like in bfa . Meanwhile people have been degen pulling every season ever since. Class without cap now shine even more. Can we remove the cap in midnight.. thx

[neat mist]

What an inspiring speech

[bright crane]

Yeassss back to the uncap spammmm

[frail veldt]

wdym its technically our best stat 😉

[frail veldt]

you mean give outlaw softcap?

[bright lodge]

Can we not remove cap but make capped shine at their respective cap

[gusty cipher]

I am running dangerously low on rogue rework in midnight hopium. A part of it is bf cap gone

[fallen totem]

Is new class tuning nerf or buff?

[frail veldt]

I mean honestly I think the design philisophy of having some specs be better at high count and some specs be better at lowcount isnt necessarily bad. The problem is they do a bad job of actually ensuring that specs like otulaw and ww do BETTER than the other specs at low count

[frail veldt]

exactly

[covert heart]

Both

[fallen totem]

I think buff for st

[vivid vessel]

from ptr patch to patch patch its a 10% st buff, neutral aoe, but from live to ptr you do 10% less aoe, while doing prolly what will end up like similar st

[gaunt phoenix]

its a buff at all target count

[vivid vessel]

its neutral why would it be a buff

10% > 10%

[gusty cipher]

no

[glass mortar]

We probably did lazy bf math

[proven ocean]

I told u all that its not a aoe nerf cuz it double dips bf dmg

The aura buff

Its just KS nerf that sucked from weeks ago

On aoe

[vivid vessel]

how

[glass mortar]

Ok but bf initial damage is only 4% ross

[proven ocean]

Weran

[glass mortar]

10% of 4 is 0.4%

[gusty cipher]

If it did 50% aoe then and it’s doing 45% now it means a 10% reduction

[fallen totem]

How

[glass mortar]

That doesn't rlly matter

[haughty wigeon]

perhaps

the real nerf

[proven ocean]

Aura buffs double dip BF dmg @glass mortar

[fallen totem]

So aoe still same?

[haughty wigeon]

was the friends we made along the way

[proven ocean]

I said that up idk if u read my msg’s

[glass mortar]

Ross the aura doesn't increase the bf by 10% and the base ability it buffs off of by 10

That's not how auras work

[proven ocean]

Not 10%

no

Bro

[haughty wigeon]

probably a slight gain

[glass mortar]

The bf spell in the aura is bf initial damage

Not bf cleave

[haughty wigeon]

napkin mathing outlaw shit is cringe

[proven ocean]

Idk but whispyr told me before about this

[fallen totem]

Is that updates are live now? Can someone test really

[proven ocean]

Bladeflurry gets double buffed if u get 10% buff

[vivid vessel]

There is nothing to napkin math, you gain 10% st but you cleave for 10% less

[proven ocean]

So it deals more dmg

I dont want to leak too much info weran

But

[glass mortar]

??? Wdym link info

[fallen totem]

?!

[proven ocean]

Ok

[glass mortar]

R u saying sims r wrong

[proven ocean]

Come to dm’s then

[glass mortar]

No lol

[vivid vessel]

i think it does that for spatter

cause spatter is weird iirc

but bf isnt spatter

so

[haughty wigeon]

i CAME

to dms

[vivid vessel]

bf is actually blade flurry

believe it or not

[gusty cipher]

“Blade Flurry now deals 45% of single target damage to nearby enemies (was 50%).” How is this initial hit? It means the cleave

[vivid vessel]

arf man

im gonna eat food instead of typing

word

s

[haughty wigeon]

s

[fallen totem]

It affects only initial hit of blafe flurry?

[vivid vessel]

No

[gusty cipher]

[gusty cipher]

I was responding to this

[gaunt phoenix]

this is 8 target before https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/deXh5b1STukWWnJCPdB8ZG

after
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aRvipzntcwsDqAkisSnMXj

[proven ocean]

@glass mortar its in sims too

^

see

Dont think that gain is from st

So

[vivid vessel]

its bf iunitial hit solo

the diff

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe that and instant poison

huge !

[vivid vessel]

hm

instant poison

why

[gaunt phoenix]

bc its damage unrelated to flurry

[fallen totem]

Where instant poison buffs

[covert heart]

Is the copium here?

[fallen totem]

[glass mortar]

if it was double dipping the way u said it was BF would have gotten buffed by 10% ross...

this damage gain is not 10% bf

[vivid vessel]

its spatter that double dip i think weran

with aura buffs

[bright lodge]

So 1.035%gain

[vivid vessel]

cause its in the list or wahtever idk i dont rmember

[vivid vessel]

if you play kir

its just deft

since bf press isnt affected

by bf nerf

while being aoe

[late swallow]

are we so back outlaw bros?

[cinder relic]

||Gets buffed
Complains||

[dim parrot]

Nothing burger

[proven ocean]

I sent u dm’s of proof

That it works

Weran

[dim parrot]

Blizz knew we were hungy

[vivid vessel]

@glass mortar

[proven ocean]

Cuz we discussed about this 1-2 months ago

So

[vivid vessel]

i knew he would do it

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/oye-cat-enough-stop-petting-gif-8639785326678511628

[gaunt phoenix]

airplane ears

[hybrid crown]

Outlaw now kings of prio damage

[cinder relic]

[light dune]

guys what do i tell my guildies do I doom to them or brag

[covert heart]

Half brag but also doom a little

[gusty cipher]

I already doomed to mine I just keep it that way

[covert heart]

Just to make sure

[gusty cipher]

Worst case I surprise them with damage

[gaunt phoenix]

guys they tuned BF damage every 6 weeks in bfa

[vivid vessel]

you brag cause raid +

[covert heart]

If we keep complaining we get more buffs right

[vivid vessel]

ok i still dont think outlaw deserves an aoe nerf tho lol

[red zinc]

Solo can you scale ilvl down to 684 on that sim

[vivid vessel]

doesnt really matter what they did in bfa

[red zinc]

To compare to current tier set and what not

im curious

Sorry for being needy bitch

[gaunt phoenix]

but it's not an aoe nerf

[glass mortar]

zacs about to drop his manifesto

[red zinc]

Hes saying compared to live

not compared to ptr

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/but-steel-is-heavier-than-feathers-confused-lost-funny-dumb-gif-11580898

[gaunt phoenix]

doesn't matter what is happening on live

[proven ocean]

Idk why he still thind outlaw is worse on ptr

[red zinc]

ross

[proven ocean]

That sounds like copium

[vivid vessel]

it does tho

[red zinc]

you just spent 40 minutes dooming

Stop metronoming

[proven ocean]

Timmy ur perma ragebaiting

[vivid vessel]

you compare your spec to your live spec in term of tuning related to other specs

if its weaker

[proven ocean]

U never know what ur talking about

[vivid vessel]

its weaker

[proven ocean]

Or maybe u keep trolling

[gaunt phoenix]

every single spec is different

[proven ocean]

One of the two

[covert heart]

Also alot of specs are getting nerfed right now

[late swallow]

this is just the customary pre-nerf buff

nothing to get hyped about

[covert heart]

And prob some more to come

[red zinc]

yo its time to play well in week 1 again

week 1 angle

[late swallow]

huge heroic prog pump

and then back into the bin week 2

[proven ocean]

Outlaw got buffed

Not nerfed

So

That sorts it

[covert heart]

Def gonna top the raid meters now

[frank finch]

[red zinc]

id put effort into linking every message

but

whats the use

[vivid vessel]

Ok but your spec goes to next tier doing 10% less AOE tho, + tricksters stuffs, maybe it goes to next tier doing 10% more st than live comparatively tho then sure, but that won't be the case, otherwise it would be doing too much st

[late swallow]

@red zinc if I came to the dutch republic, would you hang with me?

a bike ride perhaps?

[glass mortar]

zac is upset because nerfing bf directly nerfs how we scale into aoe not just raw aoe damage

[proven ocean]

Yo without me wtf

[red zinc]

depends if you can not act like a gooner irl

[glass mortar]

relative to live your ST to aoe ratio is lower

because ur assuming a 10% st buff doesnt make u op st

just average

[gaunt phoenix]

never in the history of ever have i thought about what my tuning is like going into the next tier compared to the current tier

relative to every other spec in the game which has different tuning as well

[fallen totem]

So can we say we have flat %10 st buff?

[late swallow]

only one of the two wolves inside me is a gooner

[mighty pivot]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d6oNzvtbA6C1T3PqmLj8mW 684

[haughty wigeon]

comparing seasonal tuning is

kinda weird

[glass mortar]

i just dont know how serious an issue this is cause as solo has pointed out

[proven ocean]

i want ur gooner wolf somnius

[glass mortar]

this is just how they tune outlaw aoe

[haughty wigeon]

unless its like a huge outlier

[glass mortar]

they move bf modifiers around all the time

[vivid vessel]

I mean

Ok

[haughty wigeon]

am i saying it cause ret has a huge outlier

[glass mortar]

theres not really any other way to tune outlaws aoe?

[haughty wigeon]

between seaosns :)

[dim parrot]

Will 10% st buff be competitive ST with other specs? Then still fall behind in aoe? If so then what’s the BF nerf for

[glass mortar]

u cant tune it like a normal spec

[haughty wigeon]

perhaps

lol

[vivid vessel]

Outlaw will do way less AOE tho

Lol

Idk

It's outlaw it's easy

It's not like it was a complex spec

[haughty wigeon]

man showed you

[proven ocean]

@late swallow Wanna go out on a date together

[glass mortar]

maybe it was scaling better then many specs up to 8 targets tho and itll still be strong doing less aoe, relative to every other spec

[proven ocean]

[haughty wigeon]

it was a buff

[glass mortar]

its not impossible right

[chilly atlas]

zac only remaining outlaw player and devs have a vandetta against him

[haughty wigeon]

but i guess its a nerf

[late swallow]

[haughty wigeon]

compared to last season

even tho its completely different now

[vivid vessel]

Ok but you don't get it, it will do less AOE compared to other specs

The baseline AOE goes down

I mean bri

Just wait for season to release

And dare tell me I was wrong

Lol

[haughty wigeon]

i mean this again just seems like

[proven ocean]

@red zinc wanna join us u get to see creepy uncle zeross

[haughty wigeon]

another thing

[vivid vessel]

10% is a huge number so

[haughty wigeon]

that you doom about today, only for it to end up being a nonissue when content is released

[red zinc]

stay seventeen legal distances away from me

[haughty wigeon]

its fine your passionate about the spec

[vivid vessel]

You can say I love to complain but acting like you don't understand my point is weird

[haughty wigeon]

like how im passionate about mine

[vivid vessel]

10%

Big number

[haughty wigeon]

but it ends up being a overal net buff

i understand

[vivid vessel]

from ptr to ptr

patch

[proven ocean]

🤓

[haughty wigeon]

what your saying

[vivid vessel]

which you do

[proven ocean]

[vivid vessel]

0 dps on ptr

[hasty pasture]

before is with 8% mystic touch and after with 5% one?

[vivid vessel]

so that doesnt even matter

[haughty wigeon]

bf got baseline nerf

and the only reason its not a nerf

cause of meme shit from the aura buff

which i believe is the intention

[cinder relic]

Does that matter at all?

[haughty wigeon]

to increase outlaw st

without increasing its aoe

[vivid vessel]

the only reason its not a nerf is because you got a 10% aura buff for st

yes

[haughty wigeon]

yes its a

10% nerf

but its not a nerf

cause of the 10% buff

[gaunt phoenix]

disabled raid buffs

[vivid vessel]

but it is cause your aoe sucks comparatively to other specs compared to live

[red zinc]

Damn

[haughty wigeon]

well again thank goodness its ptr

[vivid vessel]

your aoe is lower compared to your st

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont think mystic touch nerf is on the current build even

[red zinc]

My sim does 13.9m currently

[haughty wigeon]

and things are subject to change

[red zinc]

And im 682

[vivid vessel]

ok lol ?

[haughty wigeon]

i saw fdk atea 12% aura nerf

and

[vivid vessel]

you thui k they are going to buff bf or what

thats crazy

[patent lion]

community when specs get 3% aura, wow so weak and nothingburger
community when mystic touch gets 3%

[proven ocean]

[haughty wigeon]

huge

[red zinc]

if that sim is to be believed thats like

[proven ocean]

Why wouldnt it be believed

[red zinc]

because it has capo when its supposed to be a s3 gearset

idk if theres other weird things im on mobile

[cinder relic]

[vivid vessel]

what are you talking about timmy

[mighty pivot]

it was done in a lazy way so it is lacking 1% haste, because I just downscaled the ilvl from 720 or w/e to 684

[proven ocean]

Im confused timmy what the cow

Zax too

[red zinc]

Comparing a 684 sim with s3 tier set to current on 8t

[proven ocean]

And

[red zinc]

Its like 12.4m vs 13.9m

but missing haste apparently

So not really accurate

[mighty pivot]

1% haste won't fix that gap

[red zinc]

oh wait

Thats patchwerk so cudgel doesnt even work

[vivid vessel]

he sent a single sim tho ]

or what am i looking at

[red zinc]

I did my own char

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oXTNjyiRKPtkkZDBvLZwM1

Not even bis

[vivid vessel]

ye iu have no idea what these sims are

you are just sending random chars now

[red zinc]

Wait mobile toggled raid buffs i think

Fml

Im cooked

onesec

[dim parrot]

Guys

[vivid vessel]

bro if you wanna compare something compare baseline st or smth idk

idk what you are trying to do here

[proven ocean]

Glad bf is doing alot more dmg now even with bf nerf so its neutral to where it was while doing more st

Jot too bad

Not

[cinder relic]

https://pobb.in/g8xfCw0zEYXE guys pathfinder looks crazy next tier

Check out this sim

[gaunt phoenix]

i imagine that new 710 outlaw scaled down to 684 is not too different than live

[vivid vessel]

in st

10% lower aoe tho

[dim parrot]

Is there sim numbers showing the difference

[proven ocean]

Solo linked it

So

[vivid vessel]

showing what difference

[red zinc]

Thats what im trying to figure out

[proven ocean]

Check his links

Net gain is a buff

Not a nerf

[dim parrot]

So same aoe as before but more ST is what the tuning was?

[proven ocean]

On all target counts

And we gained 10% st aura buff

So

ye

[glass mortar]

it was 1% gain at 8 targets

in that sim

[red zinc]

i just wanna compare scaled down 8t to current 8t is all

[vivid vessel]

from ptr patch to patch patch you gain 10% st, and net neutral aoe
from live to ptr you lose 10% aoe compared to your st

[frank finch]

trying to prove zac wrong with sim math

[dim parrot]

The aoe was low too unfort, wasn’t it?

[vivid vessel]

ye thats just deft

[glass mortar]

so basically in big packs u gain 1% dps

ye

[remote pecan]

im pretty sure the changes still give a gain of about 1.44% in aoe on 8 targets

[frank finch]

im a waiting the results

[vivid vessel]

bro there is litteraly nothing to prove wrong tho

its not even numbers

its a concept

like

uh

[late swallow]

[glass mortar]

if u want to prove zac wrong

[proven ocean]

Idk what ur all yapping about its a buff in the end

[haughty wigeon]

He’s talking about the concept

[glass mortar]

sim live outlaw 1 target pw vs 8

[proven ocean]

[vivid vessel]

you litteraly cant

[haughty wigeon]

Yes

It’s

[glass mortar]

then do the same to ptr

[vivid vessel]

how would you do that

[glass mortar]

then compare the ratio

[haughty wigeon]

A 10% nerf

[glass mortar]

thats what zacs complaining aboutr

the aoe scaling

[haughty wigeon]

But due to the aura

[proven ocean]

U guys just want to say that the buff is a nerf for the sake of complaining

[haughty wigeon]

It ends up being a net buff

[proven ocean]

[haughty wigeon]

Cause ya know tuning

Idk why

[proven ocean]

Buff = complain

[haughty wigeon]

It’s important to make this distinction

[vivid vessel]

so unless outlaw on ptr st does 10% more st than outlaw live

[haughty wigeon]

But ya

[proven ocean]

No changes = complain

Btw

[vivid vessel]

then yes it would be justified, it that was the intended

number

for outlaw

[remote pecan]

it's a buff, 10% ST obviously & 1.44% in aoe

[vivid vessel]

to be 10% higher st

baseline

[proven ocean]

Come back in 1 week they’ll complain how we didnt get changes for 2 months

[haughty wigeon]

Probably is

[gaunt phoenix]

even if you copy pasted outlaw from live to ptr, every other spec is different

[haughty wigeon]

Since all its aoe is based on its st

[proven ocean]

This

[haughty wigeon]

Due to how bf functiona

[proven ocean]

People just dont understand certain things

[haughty wigeon]

Meanwhile my spec

[proven ocean]

On how ptr is way different

[haughty wigeon]

Ate a solid aoe nerf

[proven ocean]

Every class is doing diff dmg

Just clueless on numbers i suppose

[haughty wigeon]

With exploding hammers going from 120 to 100

[frank finch]

zac cult in shambles say it aint so

[vivid vessel]

I mean i didnt feel like i was doing even similar aoe than live tbf so

in term of looking at my details and looking at other details

just ptr guy vs ptr guy

[proven ocean]

[red zinc]

i am sorry for praying on ret downfall

[haughty wigeon]

It’s fine

[red zinc]

i will start praying for ret uprise

[haughty wigeon]

Cause we got big st buffs

And it’s not like ret was bad at aoe

Actual meta pick in keys

[vivid vessel]

like im going to be doing the same aoe as last week on ptr, and you were down bad so

actually less cause monk

if you want to compare ptr specs against each other directly

[glass mortar]

well u'll be doing more then last week, or the same at least even with monk buff change

ur gaining damage in sims on every target count

and alot on st

probably like 4-5% overall in dungeons?

[vivid vessel]

bro its like half a %

what are you saying

[glass mortar]

if its 1% at 8

[red zinc]

okay pure hypothetical cause i cant make numbers to verify anything

[vivid vessel]

im talking about pure aoe

[glass mortar]

yea and it scales up the lower the count

[proven ocean]

Dps in ptr is higher idk what hes even yapping about

[red zinc]

What if other classes being way stronger just made it felt like law got worse

[proven ocean]

[vivid vessel]

why would it scale up its deft

[pliant wave]

Why did they nerf Blade Flurry by 10%?
I don’t think Outlaw would’ve been top tier even without that nerf.

[glass mortar]

and pc gets hit less

[remote pecan]

because they buffed our ST, the bf nerf is to compensate to keep our aoe similar

[cinder relic]

I think a lot of u really dont understand where rogue is at rn

[proven ocean]

Ikr

[vivid vessel]

ok i played ptr for 4 weeks straight and got gpaped by randos everyday