Imma force myself to sleep tho
#outlaw
haughty wigeon
pliant wave
Losing AR uptime without being able to do anything feels really frustrating
opal raven
no
opal raven
it is one random target in front of you and then your blade flurry cleaves
shell fossil
Losing AR uptime without being able to do anything feels really frustrating
only a lil related but have you tried using the cancelaura snd macro to get more restless blades procs
pliant wave
only a lil related but have you tried using the cancelaura snd macro to get more...
Of course I do. I’m 3901 IO.
shell fossil
oh my gosh actual 0.1%
toxic star
how does the channel work, is it faster based on haste or do you just get more hits but same duration?
shell fossil
the best rogue in our battlegroup is 3.5k @_@
toxic star
and is it longer in comparison to live? if not, how do you lose AR uptime
quaint sable
Its longer but is still hasted
shell fossil
low key tho having two charges of adrenaline rush would help a lot of new players and help roll over rp segments/weird pulls/deaths etc without breaking outlaw
maybe bliz will get a new opinion after they cap udk and see a larger player base feel the grief lol
or maybe buff thistle tea to work like premediation idk
hasty warren
Hi pirates
balmy topaz
finite arch
low key tho having two charges of adrenaline rush would help a lot of new player...
The press AR and accidently die is so sad HAHAHAAHAH
Guilty as charged
vivid vessel
how does the channel work, is it faster based on haste or do you just get more h...
Faster with haste but it's barely doing anything, 5s max channel with supercharger (so 10cps) we currently cancel it at max cp
It's longer than live tho ye
limpid plank
is blade flurry still bugged?
vivid vessel
No
gaunt phoenix
it's bugged for legacy content, but not for war within
limpid plank
legacy means prior to bfa?\
gaunt phoenix
just when you kill your target it doesnt cleave
hybrid crown
Any low health mob
gaunt phoenix
i guess it can happen in overworld
proven ocean
it's bugged for legacy content, but not for war within
Nah its bugged everywhere
Even in war within
Anything u kill doesnt cleave
gaunt phoenix
i know, i meant to phrase it in a way where it doesnt affect keys or raid
proven ocean
It does tho
There are like 200 mobs in a key
U might kill 30, ur only missing 30 attacks maybe worth of flurry
Which doesn’t matter much
toxic star
blade flurry, bte and killing spree uptime columns will be shown soon
vivid vessel
Xeph
Do you guys not have a blacklist for what count as an ability or not
For apm
Well nvm it wouldn't even work anyway
I wish that APM section wouldnt be so littered with random bullshit but oh well
balmy topaz
I wish that APM section wouldnt be so littered with random bullshit but oh well
What like combo points 
toxic star
Do you guys not have a blacklist for what count as an ability or not
oh i misread, we do have one
but its manual work so naturally lags behind whatever toys ppl start spamming
toxic star
go on
vivid vessel
Outlaw has dispatch from crackshot
And the 2 shots from fan the hammer
That are counted
But ye a blacklist doesn't help here
vivid vessel
Oh the coins from fateboudn at least could be excluded I guess
mighty pivot
also the extra SS and ambush procs which also use different spell ids
gaunt phoenix
those are not logged as casts
toxic star
only learned today that ghostly strike doesnt log its debuff events 
vivid vessel
Only casts rn on the top of my head are crackshot dispatch, coins and fth
vivid vessel
only learned today that ghostly strike doesnt log its debuff events <:weird:7186...
Yep
polar niche
Guys on gally m, it’s ok to put ghostly on focused add or i leave it only on gally?
mighty pivot
those are not logged as casts
you are right I could've sworn they did but I think I got confused with ambush because there are 3 total ambush spell ids and two are real casts (SS transformation and normal ambush I think)
toxic star
the only rogue ids we currently ignore are mutilate off hand, shuriken storm hidden combo point cast and the modern blade flurry driver
mighty pivot
FtH uses the same PS spell id so that one might be the tricky one unless you can filter based on time (or on Opportunity being present)
balmy topaz
wonder how much the back/this will Sim
gaunt phoenix
idk what the back even does
mighty pivot
the cloak's proc is 2-3% with the boots in dungeons
balmy topaz
Hmm
vivid vessel
idk what the back even does
damage
gaunt phoenix
nice
balmy topaz
also you can chose your stats on the back this time
How did you find the trinket
thhe diamond thingy
mighty pivot
the back has low secondary stats for its ilvl anyway
balmy topaz
Prism
vivid vessel
it does good damage
like the proc itself
in m+
but no main stats
and the stat buff is like
idk
interesting to play around
but its also outlaw
so its irrelevant
mighty pivot
fake CD 
vivid vessel
which seems to be backuped by the sim i sent earlier in tc channel
also i did a top gear of trinkets to get an idea
it seems most aer implemented by now
balmy topaz
This doesn't say that it's tank only spec
vivid vessel
the results are as expected
balmy topaz
Ngl raid loot is a bit meh
balmy topaz
Ye seems decent
vivid vessel
casue every trinket is bad anyway
gaunt phoenix
Only casts rn on the top of my head are crackshot dispatch, coins and fth
deft maneuvers too
rustic lotus
Every trinket is bad?
vivid vessel
this one sims way ahead of every trinkiet but its way overbudgeted so it will get adjusted (halls triknet
rustic lotus
Like every raid trinket? Are we going to have to farm sacbroods again?
vivid vessel
this trinket is ok, not amazing, similar to seaforim prolly
im hitting
high margin of error sims
so nothing is accurate
down there
but prism is also decent
gaunt phoenix
i guess the idol needs login to not channel in stealth
gaunt phoenix
or it may be strong enough that you should
mighty pivot
the antenna is 2,5 ppm so it should be slightly better than seaforium unless overlapping the applications makes it worse than having them in sequence
balmy topaz
Hope you can do it while moving if so
mighty pivot
it has 2k more crit per proc than seaforium at 710
it's good that they didn't make any "launch purple spaceship at target" trinket. The closest to that was that cooler bladedance trinket
vivid vessel
the antenna is 2,5 ppm so it should be slightly better than seaforium unless ove...
you extend the duration on seaforium tho
vivid vessel
it's good that they didn't make any "launch purple spaceship at target" trinket....
hm
mighty pivot
you extend the duration on seaforium tho
yes seaforium is 50% uptime but way less crit, the antenna is 2.5ppm at 10s each but it will depend on how the overlapping works
is it at the vendors to test?
toxic star
well as usual
yes
you have brief windows where multiple stacks are active
its like ironfur etc
mighty pivot
like Flawless Form is what I would imagine yes
glass mortar
ew
mighty pivot
more like HoC 1.7 with how underbudget it is
glass mortar
WAIT BORROW FATE FROM THOSE AROUND YOU?
FATEBOUND BIS???
mf why doesnt this stat drain my allies mastery
wheres my flavor blizzard
snow hill
Whoa F yeah
late swallow
also this is ok
sub chads are saved
crazy how sin can technically be a 1.5 min spec next tier too
very lame and not cool
slate forge
also this is ok
Isn’t it way less stat budget than HOC though comparing them both at 684 it’s quite the difference
glass mortar
crazy how sin can technically be a 1.5 min spec next tier too
wot how
mighty pivot
ok the antenna is a bit weird because it is two buffs. First you get a 20s buff which spawns an orb that chases you, and once you collide with the orb you get a 10s buff that can stack several times. That means that you can in theory run around to delay getting the buff, but so far I haven't seen a second orb spawn while one is already chasing me. If only 1 orb can be up at a time the overlaps will be rare. And overlapping works like FF as expected
edit: I did manage to get 2 orbs up it's just very rare because of the low-ish proc rate
glass mortar
oh right they share fatebound set with us
i aint never seen a fatebound sin i forgot they even had that tree tbh
gaunt phoenix
is it good enough lole
late swallow
i aint never seen a fatebound sin i forgot they even had that tree tbh
i think it's fine on pure ST
lone spear
surprise surprise
late swallow
but as soon as there is one more target, it's joever
glass mortar
yea sounds like fatebound
lone spear
i think the sub community agrees
toxic star
yup, that checks out
latent oak
toxic star
the irony of pinging whispyr here 
gloomy coral
rotund depot
shit would feel so bad on sub
its shit baseline and tier set makes it worse
late swallow
wait dont ban them yet, they havent given my my free nitro
oh shit did I miss some free discord nitro?
mild wigeon
when am i allowed to press KS on kul- in ToP
i keep fucking up on that boss
swear those circles are always up
glass mortar
the mods stole it as always
🥹
idk i press it on cd on that fight
just feint first
and make sure where u end up wont be where the ball is
glass mortar
well u cant take damage during kspree
so nothing is going to 1 shot you
but you might come out with a bit of a dot depending on how good/bad ur rng was sure
mild wigeon
okok
glass mortar
usually u dont take any ticks unless the ball is on the spot where u end ur kspree (so where u started it)
you generally need to rng teleport multiple times in the same position/inside the ball aoe to have the orb actually manage to tick on you
because ksprees teleport rate is so fast
alot of aoes r like that tbh
hybrid crown
I usually run just a bit away from other balls and 1 CP KS with feint
Sometimes even a 1 CP will teleport you into a ball and KS dot will mildly hurt
glass mortar
well that sounds like losing alot of damage i just full send full cp ksprees the whole fight basically
highest dot ive ever come out of it with was like a 7%er which is livable
that was on a 16
glass mortar
It's less dangerous then it seems imo zac full sends even in 20s he only really dies if kspree bugs
In which case how many cp u cast it with doesn't rlly matter anyway
Playing kir and copying zac probably
gaunt phoenix
mastery is whatever but our trinkets are also whatever
for the KIR build, a mastery bonus is not terrible in aoe, compared to other trinket options
glass mortar
Hoc is one of the best budgeted stat trinkets this season
fair oak
mighty pivot
ˢᵐᵒˡ
vivid vessel
Isn’t it way less stat budget than HOC though comparing them both at 684 it’s qu...
I think trinkets are just mega shit lol
late swallow
Hoc is one of the best budgeted stat trinkets this season
we got number victory royale yeah fortnite we bout to get down (get down) ten kills on the board right now just wiped out tomato town
glass mortar
i understand the referance im just not sure how it relates to HoC ngl
i havent had my coffee yet tho
also no tomatotown gif to go with that???
glass mortar
🫡
tender breach
top gear doent have the tinker socket options for engineer wrists?
glass mortar
none of them are relevant for dps
glass mortar
whatever u like they all suck
i didnt even bother with engi stuff this season the tinkers r pretty useless
vivid vessel
It's less dangerous then it seems imo zac full sends even in 20s he only really ...
I don't , I tank the balls with feint up in 22s, that's why I pre feint
glass mortar
u dont what
mild wigeon
wish i can post food in here
glass mortar
u have definitly linked clips in here of u dying to that boss
glass mortar
to kspree bug
vivid vessel
No
glass mortar
yes
vivid vessel
Not with feint
glass mortar
i said u die to kspree bug only
vivid vessel
Yes
Before
When I was a noob
Not feinting
No
I don't
That's my point
With feint I can't die
Just have to be topped
mild wigeon
KS is a healer mechanic
vivid vessel
Also ks bugs so often if it would one shot me you wouldn't even be able to press ks once
vivid vessel
Imagine not pressing the offglobal 40% DR
Cost you half your energy btw noob
vivid vessel
Yes but that's misleading
It would imply you have no choice but to die
I only die if I troll
You can have 100% uptime on living
Just feint
glass mortar
i did say to feint
vivid vessel
And be topped
normal violet
I think I saw you on a 21 TOP die twice because of kspree bug on that orb boss like back to back (like within a minute of each other) when I was trying to figure out how you do that fight
I panic as a viewer but im trying to live vicariously through you
I think it was like 4 days ago
vivid vessel
Yes but that was because I was trolling
I'm not as careful when I'm tired or it's resilient
I would never die in a real key
You feint before ks
And it doesn't one shot you
As long as you are topped
normal violet
I take note of it (and I will be scared still)
covert heart
Don't worry in a few weeks we will have a 12 second channel and wont kill yourself
sudden fulcrum
but you'll still want to because it's a channel
covert heart
Honestly they should make it a caster with a channel that long
glass mortar
no, but also no
vivid vessel
macro feint into ks you say
Ye
Legit
Do it
My brain hit feint. Before every ks anywya
It's like
I can't no press it
radiant vessel
i try to press it most times i think there is danger but i also forget
covert heart
When you are testing the new killing spree do you still have that hard habit?
glass mortar
zac thats horrible advice
think of all the times ur spamming kspree between gcds or are 10 energy short spamming it to cast in 0.1s
then u just remove 40 energy from urself casting feint twice in a row ogcd
delay kspree another 1 gcd
mighty pivot
option 1: 70 energy KS and live option 2: 45 energy KS and maybe die. Of course you go for the discounted version 
vivid vessel
think of all the times ur spamming kspree between gcds or are 10 energy short sp...
Ok I still hit feint before 90% of my ks
So
Whatever
glass mortar
im not saying dont hit it im saying dont macro it
☠️
yall know u slam ur buttons 50000 times a gcd
feint is ogcd its gunna feint as many times as u mash that kspree trying to spellqueue it
covert heart
Macro it on every ability
Can't ever die might as well have pally bubble permanently
sharp moat
yall know u slam ur buttons 50000 times a gcd
/castsequence reset=6 Feint, null
there you go
glass mortar
can you have a castsequence and a cast in the same macro
since u also need it to cast kspree at the same time
rustic lotus
At this point just make it so KS makes you Invuln 
quiet ore
can you have a castsequence and a cast in the same macro
If 0GCD, yes
thick valve
Can I learn rotation using simi as an example?
Yes, I know it's written not to be influenced by it, but it makes it easier for me to remember.
sharp moat
/castsequence reset=6 Feint, null
/cast Killing Spree
glass mortar
i mean the sim wont make mistakes but it will be tough for you to track its exact resources for why its casting certain generators in that window
sharp moat
actuallyu it would have to be the other way around, just to be sure
rustic lotus
Does anyone know WHY they made KS hit a random target?
rustic lotus
We just wanted to not teleport around 😦
glass mortar
crimson geode
Because it wouldn't be a killing spree if it was only one target
rustic lotus
Blizz is afraid of our power
quiet ore
Does anyone know WHY they made KS hit a random target?
So it wasn't just a barrage of hits to a single target, probably, and wasn't heavily misnamed
glass mortar
sometimes gameplay suffers for flavor
i guess this ability is just required to have as many negative hangups as we possibly can
at least it doesnt kill you anymore
white marten
They need to buff KS in pre-patch by like another 100% .
covert heart
I think they should nerf it and make its channel longer
quiet ore
Idk though, they're giving it a new icon, new behavior, and a new animation, they shoulda just given it a new name, too
white marten
Na KS is fine
rustic lotus
What are the cons now?
- No more root immunity
- Completely random dmg spread
- 90 sec channel
covert heart
90 sec is a positive
glass mortar
4: slows you 5: more punishing if you end up needing to cancel it then old kspree was if u had to send a low cp one
quiet ore
Upside, can move during it now
glass mortar
no root immunity and no root break either
rustic lotus
They really do be afraid of BFA outlaw 😦
covert heart
And you don't have to hold it like you use to
glass mortar
yea thats a big one for pvp
this ability is massively nerfed in pvp
better for pve at least tho
covert heart
People play pvp?
rustic lotus
Isn’t outlaw strong for PvP?
glass mortar
not rlly
covert heart
I thought it was dead like latin
glass mortar
no not dead
sharp moat
4: slows you 5: more punishing if you end up needing to cancel it then old kspre...
why would you need to cancel it? afaik you can hook midcast and keep channeling, isnt it?
rustic lotus
Ah my bad. My WoW PvP info is completely from random shorts on YouTube
quiet ore
no root immunity and no root break either
The real loss is not being able to use it to tech boss knockbacks/pulls anymore
Back to perfectly timed grapple I guess
mighty pivot
it's also a dps loss to fully channel it past max cp (which can be fixed with tuning) so you cancel it regardless
sharp moat
way worse before that you cant cancel it and the cast goes through
i rather be losing dps than having a tmate dead cause i wasnt able to int
glass mortar
well sure i was comparing it to casting a 1 cp kspree instead so u wouldnt die/could kick
white marten
Outlaw slaps in BGs
covert heart
Teammates don't matter only your own damage everyone else can suffer
covert heart
Its the real dps way
glass mortar
just a shame they dont appear to want to try to fix any of them
novel socket
or they could just mega buff blade rush and have that replace ks
sharp moat
is sending a 1cp ks a thing? is it even worth it compared to just 5cp dispatch?
mighty pivot
i rather be losing dps than having a tmate dead cause i wasnt able to int
I'd rather the rework that they do on our utter shit ability to not be slightly-less-shit
white marten
The biggest flaw is that it doesnt do dmg
glass mortar
generally if you'd be delaying kspree 1-2 finishers to cast u should just send a low cp one of u can
its tie ins to trickster are more important then its raw damage even
white marten
Needs a strong buff
novel socket
remember that they went out of their way to make ks work with trickster but didn't bother to fix it
white marten
Classic blizz
hybrid crown
I think it was mentioned 1 CP KS is like a 4% loss but not ksing at all is like a 19% loss
sharp moat
yeh but its not 1cp ks vs no ks, its 1cp ks vs delay ks 2/4 globals
delaying ks 4 globals cant be a 19%
glass mortar
yea id do 1 cp ks over 4 gcd delay always
2 gcd more sketchy maybe
unless I was like, no procs no resources no buffs
i base it on how many finishers im probably gunna send before i ks tho
and its generally safe to er on the side of pressing on cd as outlaw
sharp moat
yea id do 1 cp ks over 4 gcd delay always
is this like, confirmed? sims do back this?
glass mortar
2 finishers are like 20% of ksprees cd
glass mortar
i mean we dont setup sims to rng need to delay kspree
we did do sims of delaying kspree an average of like 20% or something and it was pretty bad
more bad then sending at 1 cp
but even then ur just artificially increasing ksprees cd in sims to try to emulate needing to delay it, its not exact
u cant really do it exact
sharp moat
i mean we dont setup sims to rng need to delay kspree
not rng need but to compare the instant 1cp ks to 4 globals after ks ready and then ks
glass mortar
yea u cant really get sims to do that
unless you mean delay kspree 2 finishers like, the whole ifght as a rule
then compare that to always finish on 1 cp
could do that but i dont think anyones bothered to
sharp moat
its pretty niche maybe, still sweet info i think
rustic lotus
Although I’m glad to see it back. Anyone else feel double coup being 4pc kinda cringe?
mighty pivot
4 globals is delaying - live -KS by about 20-25% of its normal cooldown. It's a lot
glass mortar
like if u send 2 finishers and assume average of 6-7 cp spent per finisher and then average TB uptime, ur just wasting cdr equal to ~20% of ksprees effective cd playing like that, so simming kspree with a 20% longer cd should be very similar
radiant vessel
do you only vanish if you have ADR up or will come up within the vanish window?
mighty pivot
only vanish with ADR or if you are about to overcap vanish charges
devout smelt
Don’t think you ever want to vanish without adr
Shouldn’t really ever have 2 vanish charges and no adr
devout smelt
Me when not playing 1 hr tricks
mighty pivot
Shouldn’t really ever have 2 vanish charges and no adr
dungeons are lawless lands
mighty pivot
wowsers blizzard actually made a post about delaying the new ptr dungeon rotation yesterday they do be learning
loud wing
If i ever find the guy that made it so u have to click 3 times to go to pinned messages on mobile...
keen belfry
solo
mighty pivot
If i ever find the guy that made it so u have to click 3 times to go to pinned m...
you will hug him and buy him a drink?
gaunt phoenix
mobile pins cutting off like half the message with no indication the message is larger is crazy
keen belfry
solo can you make sure i come back to wow with outlaw doing more st, better aoe, and shorter channel on ks
gaunt phoenix
ye
keen belfry
maybe a little FTH/PC talent ting so we can have 2fth and pc and gs
as well
not sure if asking too much but
cedar kernel
awang i think like uh.. let priest give u PI can shorten the channel time of KS
keen belfry
ill whisp my PI:
KSing. Please PI.
cedar kernel
i need a priest in my team
keen belfry
no no play with rsham
cedar kernel
Prot Warrior, Outlaw, Priest(PI only for me), Elem Shaman and monk is my dream team
white marten
Because my safety is way more important than someone’s ramp dmg
cedar kernel
with the warrior can get BR
white marten
Warriors don’t have battle rez
white marten
Shout me back to life
sudden fulcrum
white marten
Honestly Outlaw not needing PI or Lust to do hella dam, is the biggest pro.
toxic umbra
biggest con is that you'll soon need a monk + warrior + shaman + druid to do good dmg
wary bridge
« Good dmg »
10m in aoe while MM does 60m
toxic umbra
Yeah, ptr tuning, surely gets fixed
my issue is that, biggest PI in the game is probs Dev evoker, and thats what 5%?~ dps increase.
But without a monk its +-8% for us
kinda weird, i hate these external buffs contributing so much to our dps
vapid blaze
how is monk 8%?=
white marten
What happened to bring the player not the class?
normal violet
how is monk 8%?=
mystic touch gives 8% physical damage increase to group
vapid blaze
wait its 8 now
normal violet
ye
white marten
They buffed it
vapid blaze
wait thats a ptr thing right
white marten
Yes
normal violet
yeah ptr
vapid blaze
i expect shamy buff is also very similar to that no
vivid vessel
No
white marten
War shout + sham buff is pretty good
vivid vessel
Sham is more around 3%
vapid blaze
atleast on pure st?
vivid vessel
War is 5
vapid blaze
wasnt wft always really strong on outlaw
vivid vessel
Yes
3%
String
Strong
It's been less recently I think
Idk why
Didn't follow
Our melee damage is lower probably
white marten
War , monk, shaman, druid comp. Huge outlaw gainz
vapid blaze
welp i had somebody tell me (a warrior) that outlaw is op
then you realize raidbuff stacking is 😦
gaunt phoenix
would hate for this to taint an otherwise good season
chilly atlas
that's a very specific comp tho, i miss bfa where you could build weirdish comps that actually kinda worked
gaunt phoenix
idk why i chose the word taint there
vapid blaze
i love this season
also think balancing is quite good tbh
vivid vessel
Has been unlucky a lot lately
Where we always have shit
Tainting out season s
Even when it's good
In S3 df it was so bugged and shit
In S2 we had ks
Rest of the time we were shit
S3 gonna be raid buff
And ks again
Crazy
Ks
vapid blaze
idk people dont get outlaw needs to do big deeps on its own to ahve any relevance 😦
vivid vessel
They should have just deleted ks if they aren't even capable of reworking it into a fun button
Absolute skill issue ngl
vapid blaze
i swear they dont actually play anything
it sounds kinda cool on paper
but its actually just ass
toxic umbra
its not far off, i dont totally hate it, it just feels bad if you dont cancel it at max CP.
So it should be shorter duration.
hardy thicket
The rework of the ability at its core is a good idea. If they just took well thought out feedback and rolled with it it would be fine
toxic umbra
I just think the design of outlaw is a bit confused.
We have AR pretty much all the time and when we dont it feels awful.
whereas every other spec in the game feels okay outside of CD's and fun inside of CD's.
The baseline for the spec is just having AR all the time, so anything less feels bad
but i dont expect any of this to get looked at anytime soon
mighty pivot
what's the purpose
the only thing I can think of is this is how they are making the spec more "accessible" - but then they are completely missing the mark
dawn talon
we don't have cds, we have maintenance buffs
novel socket
would hero mug trinket be better than mythic vexie trinket on mythic gally ?
chilly atlas
didn't the original beta iteration of trickster like revolve around feint as a dps button or some crap?
novel socket
didn't the original beta iteration of trickster like revolve around feint as a d...
yes
feint was a dps skill
glass mortar
literally why is it even longer than live to begin with
makes it feel more impactful
longer cast time = more impact
novel socket
but people told them it was a bad idea and surprisingly they listened
mighty pivot
one of the trickster previews with feint in
vivid vessel
longer cast time = more impact
If the animation made sense at least idk
I changes nothing if I see it for 1 sec or 5 so
vivid vessel
Idk, I don't really get making an ability worse for no reason
glass mortar
zero iteration on this ability zac
vivid vessel
No one want a longer ks
glass mortar
the iteration they did doesnt count
vivid vessel
I'm used to it by now
glass mortar
none of it is based on our feedback lets be honest
they knew night 1 they were gunna double the cd
or at least increase it alot
and everything since is just buffing it until we stop canceling
very good design cycle
vivid vessel
"guys please provide feedback" procede to ignore all of it
glass mortar
normal violet
do you?
mighty pivot
sorry you hate everything, zac
gaunt phoenix
now they are out of time and the patch is gonna release candidate soon or whatever
glass mortar
mhm
12.0 will fix kspree
until then this is the band aid
its a good bandaid
i will take it
shoulda been in 6 months ago tho
gaunt phoenix
"guys please provide feedback" procede to ignore all of it
i do think the trickster 2pc change was based on feedback
normal violet
what's wox's thing
covert kestrel
People will say I hate everything
Zac loves us 
glass mortar
oh tru our tier set listend to feedback abit
still no stacking unseens past 4 tho
even making it go to 6 would help infinitly
vivid vessel
Litteraly the bare minimum tho
glass mortar
and would keep sub from going full bozo with it
vivid vessel
If you were a mage
You wouldn't accept so little done
They dropped tier set
And that was it
I'm sorry
But what they did
Doesn't count
novel socket
mages would never get such half assed changes to begin with
vivid vessel
Litteraly 5 min work
novel socket
glass mortar
our mistake was assuming this was gunna be a real design cycle
toxic umbra
What sorta annoys me, is I’ve been playing rogue for years
We get perma neglected, I’m hype for every blue post ever and invariably we get very little.
Then over the years that’s resulted in specs with a lot of issues
Now it seems we have to wait for a rework that takes an insane amount of dev time.
But it’s all the consequence of years of below par work on the specs (all 3)
mighty pivot
there are like 5 mages for every rogue, they are more careful
novel socket
there are like 5 mages for every rogue, they are more careful
but why are there 5 mages for every rogue
because rogue is abandoned
and mage is the golden child
its a self fulfilled prophecy
just like pvp
vivid vessel
cant wait for dude to come back again for 12.0 and ask for feedback
then ignore it all
glass mortar
i mean it certainly doesnt help but even in ancient times the rogue to mage population was like that
mighty pivot
rogue has been underplayed for a very long time, no?
glass mortar
rogues just not popular
hasnt been popular uh
ever really i guess?
probably the closest to popular in classic and bc
mighty pivot
think so too
glass mortar
maybe for a few months in classic
novel socket
so popularity dropped with the years
gaunt phoenix
i dont think there is a strong correlation there
glass mortar
its hard to give the reason rogue is unpopular
tbh. its easy to blame on lack of design changes
but in df s3 all 3 specs got rather transformational changes that most people liked, at least for that season
and still rogue was one of the least popular classes
its not just that
novel socket
in general
glass mortar
its alot of factors
novel socket
rogue is a very popular theme for rpg games
glass mortar
yes thats hwy im confused
toxic umbra
Bruh idk, I just open blue posts everytime and have to scroll for 25 mins to just get past the many mage paragraphs.
Just to see the rogue section missing
glass mortar
when i play other mmos (which do not compare to wow), the assassin/thief is often competing with the light/holyguy for popularity
because of the edgelords
i think we have enough edge classes in wow that the rogue edge isnt popular tho
we got the undead guy, the i gave up my eyes to hunter demons guy
novel socket
idk
wow doesn't take rogue into consideration at all
for anything it has these days
cinder relic
novel socket
nelf racial has more usages than rogue's stealth
glass mortar
ok but viper is very similar feel to outlaw
i imagine its popular because its just new
novel socket
its popular because its cool too
covert kestrel
glass mortar
its technically a monstor hunter but it plays like an assassin
dashing around and fast dw slices
then the staff thing
covert kestrel
dashing around and fast dw slices
COMBAT??!?!??!?
glass mortar
ninja i agree is not popular
but ninja is more specific then an assassin in that game
ninja is literally naruto
ur summoning frogs and shit
novel socket
yeah ninja is whatever
glass mortar
that is definitly not my fantasy
covert kestrel
Fuckin weebs
cinder relic
Rogue is unpopular for two main reasons in my eyes.
- Energy and combo points are a repulsive resource system to a lot of people
- usually has a lot of quirky and obtuse rules to maximize damage
vivid vessel
cps are unpopular ?
cinder relic
Yes
vivid vessel
i swear its like
the main thing
i cant play other specs cause you have nothing to manage
empty
glass mortar
but like half the classes in the game have a psuedo/lite cp system
vivid vessel
not like rogue tho
glass mortar
isnt rets system like a very very simplified combo point system
cinder relic
So this is why they design the game for different types of players
glass mortar
and its the most popular in the game
cinder relic
So if you read what I said I said "energy and combo points"
vivid vessel
what i mean is
cinder relic
Not "combo points"
vivid vessel
every spell we have interact with cps
normal violet
tf when did Viper come out
I stopped playing in endwalker so dawn trail or like is this their PTR
glass mortar
well id put it entirely on energy
mighty pivot
from cata and not super accurate of course (source: https://esc-hatch.blogspot.com/2010/04/cataclysm-class-population-or-world-of.html)
novel socket
tf when did Viper come out
I stopped playing in endwalker so dawn trail or like ...
dawntrail
glass mortar
but rogue does feel very different then other classes, energy classes themselves r different i guess
glass mortar
limited by a resource instead of cds/procs like ret/other combo point copiers
novel socket
noice, I gotta look into it
don't
glass mortar
yea i could see energy being a huge part of it
novel socket
dawntrail is the shadowlands of ff14
wait for next expac
maybe they get their shit together
cinder relic
from cata and not super accurate of course (source: https://esc-hatch.blogspot.c...
Yeah I mean, rogue has been unpopular for a long time but for some reason people like to attribute it to "the state of the class" or smthing
normal violet
oh that's disgusting
but my scions 😦 i miss them
quiet ore
i cant play other specs cause you have nothing to manage
Every other class ends up getting something that's basically dk runes + optionally runic power if you squint a bit, which is just backwards combo points anyway
glass mortar
yeea no attributing rogues downfall to anything in recent years is a bit silly
not doing rogue any favors maybe but rogue has been super underplayed since at least bc
vivid vessel
Every other class ends up getting something that's basically dk runes + optional...
no its not the same
what i mean is that
for rogue
cinder relic
Rogue in classic also couldn't target swap properly lol
glass mortar
swapping targets in general was a pita until wod even
u still have cp on target in pandaria
cinder relic
Rogue has always been very quirky. It's sort of baked into its DNA
mighty pivot
Yeah I mean, rogue has been unpopular for a long time but for some reason people...
I think the state can play a role into how unpopular it is, but it is only a factor and not the sole reason
novel socket
its that quirkness that attracted me to it
cinder relic
Which u know, leads to it being unpopular. But I don't really care how popular the spec is. It's still fun lol
cinder relic
I think the state *can play a role* into how unpopular it is, but it is only a f...
Sure I'd probably agree with that
novel socket
you leave it up to the rogue to somehow cheese the fuckout of a boss or encounter
cinder relic
its that quirkness that attracted me to it
Exactly. It's important to recognize not every spec needs to be ret paladin
glass mortar
rogue also has the worst leveling experience of any spec in the game imo
and like, leveling is easy
but its still the worst
novel socket
Exactly. It's important to recognize not every spec needs to be ret paladin
yeah but also
glass mortar
i doubt that helps
quiet ore
every spell interact with cps
Yeah, and every dk spell costs runes, and every monk spell costs chi or energy, and basically every evoker spell worth using costs essence 🤷♀️
cinder relic
I'd say that's probably true but overblown
glass mortar
i mean yea leveling is easy
its moreso when u have something thats just annoying while leveling u might not carry on with it as much
novel socket
do you think its right that they let shadowmeld being so good in m+ while making shroud obsolete ?
this is a decision blizz made
and it hurts the class
dawn talon
because of the edgelords
when your game has a larger teenage audience you get more of those edgelords too
novel socket
when it shouldn't have to
cinder relic
I think giving every mob true sight is kinda dumb but like, oh well
novel socket
as an example
cinder relic
An overcorrection for m+ meta cucks
"you need rogue shroud for every key" turned the game into every pack has truesight
cinder relic
M+ers ruining the game as usual
glass mortar
somehow I knew
sudden fulcrum
the forced anti-skip obsession is so weird
novel socket
you need rogue for every key bad
vivid vessel
"you need rogue shroud for every key" turned the game into every pack has truesi...
eh, even before they did that shroud was usleess
novel socket
but
novel socket
sudden fulcrum
hopefully the way they changed bubbles is a sign of a new perspective
vivid vessel
wtf new tron movie
leaden folio
everyreworked dungeon was like
vivid vessel
thats crazy
glass mortar
truesite is just their way of saying "why are you trying to compete in high end m+ with no night elves?"
its not like it even stops those high end bozos from finding degen ways to skip
vivid vessel
all true sight does is limit how noobs can skip
it doesnt impact high end players at all
not a single bit
i cant think of a single true sight mob that we cant skip rn
quiet ore
its not like it even stops those high end bozos from finding degen ways to skip
We have new degen ways to skip with rocks and shit
vivid vessel
rocks
glass mortar
nodders
quiet ore
bro throwing rocks at mobs
The teleport rocks mf
glass mortar
we need a thrower spec in wow
vivid vessel
no idea what that is cuh
glass mortar
im playing the throw barbarian in bg3 with some friends and that shit is cino
wheres my spec that just picks up and yeets things so hard they hurt gods
rocks, chairs, 2handed weapons
whatever you need
quiet ore
no idea what that is cuh
The evoker tech? Got used a bit in one of the bfa dungeons a few seasons back
vivid vessel
hm
glass mortar
zac did u know on ptr evokers were gaming their 2set for maximum aoe by finding ways to extend deep breaths flight animation
glass mortar
because the npcs it spawns would just continously fire out pyres while u were midair
but would stop once u landed
this is not a real class i swear
glass mortar
if it was a perverts fetish then i am sorely dissapointed
they arent even hot
wheres the hot mandragons we had early art of when expac was revealed
novel socket
and now they want to justify the resources they dropped on this ugly ass degenerate race and class
glass mortar
wheres my bodyslider blizzard
novel socket
so they keep buffing it
vivid vessel
legit i feel like im playing early access sometimes
novel socket
to increase its numbers
sudden fulcrum
it's really funny how they did transmog with evoker and how the visage is just an ugly human with shit on their face
glass mortar
i remember some dev that was like "yea we'd at least like devs tier set to show when they are in dragon form"
said one time in a random interview then abandoned
and they havent added a single set of armor to the barbershop since either
class is abandoned cmm
glass mortar
pres looks kinda banger next season tho ngl i might need to gear up my evoker
novel socket
it's really funny how they did transmog with evoker and how the visage is just a...
male evoker visage: femboy face with zoomer glasses and ancient greek god body
female evoker visage: swaggy chest like they are 100+ years old and overweight from eating mcdonalds every day for lunch and dinner
sudden fulcrum
novel socket
grim spear
pres evoker is kind of fun
mighty pivot
at least they made a post this time
glass mortar
pres is its best spec and usually my dedicated season healer
this season made me ragequit tho
mighty pivot
instead of saying nothing and pushing the patch 2 days later
glass mortar
too many bad mines on ground on the bosses in this season
late swallow
wheres my bodyslider blizzard
Still waiting for a bulge slider
mild wigeon
Still waiting for a bulge slider
goonius
mighty pivot
bulge slider and a plethora of thigh high sock transmogs 
glass mortar
glass mortar
😏
keen belfry
new swords eh?
novel socket
where is the spoon
keen belfry
sorry for spam
glass mortar
which weapon is that
keen belfry
timewalking vendor
glass mortar
ahh
keen belfry
kinda lit swords no cap
vivid vessel
front
glass mortar
dont tease us
keen belfry
WYM FRONT
keen belfry
glass mortar
wait is that the actual sword or do u have the bugged 4 weapon showing
vivid vessel
in hands
keen belfry
glass mortar
oh fuk
glass mortar
thats a mf glaive
keen belfry
this is my rogue
vivid vessel
wtf
keen belfry
using a sword
keen belfry
keen belfry
legion dal
thick valve
I have 610 ilvl I got a puzzling cartel chip, which item will be the best to exchange?
desert tendon
kinda cool swords
leaden folio
can i press dalaran stone
if you cant, i can tell you with french word how to do
desert tendon
i like the fact they re on the back
vivid vessel
if you cant, i can tell you with french word how to do
me understand english
me englishman
desert tendon
you cant talk
leaden folio
ok but me poorenglishman
desert tendon
you dumbie frenchi
vivid vessel
ok but me poorenglishman
haha noob
leaden folio
sad
novel socket
nom nom
leaden folio
french parrot are the best
thick valve
I have 610 ilvl I got a puzzling cartel chip, which item will be the best to exchange?
novel socket
this is an insult to me and my kind
leaden folio
so you are not the best
leaden folio
no you said no parrot and no french
keen belfry
thse swords resting on your back is just gg
novel socket
B in best is from Birb
leaden folio
so no you are not
keen belfry
so gg
glass mortar
I have 610 ilvl I got a puzzling cartel chip, which item will be the best to exc...
if u dont have access or expect to have access to higher stuff for awhile, herioc capo (mugzee fist weapon)
will be strong in ur mh and ur BiS oh in ST even after u craft/get a mh
sudden fulcrum
what's with the wings?
keen belfry
panda remix toy
sudden fulcrum
neat
keen belfry
i have it bound to SS xd
keen belfry
glass mortar
why do u have a startattack in ur sinister strike
keen belfry
i have no clue
glass mortar
u should
melee attacks have aquired targets and started auto attack by default even if u cant cast them since
idk wod or something
its just ranged attacks that dont
leaden folio
not if you are on stealth
like you vanish, mob die, you press ss but no energy : look noob for 1sec
glass mortar
well thats a good thing then u dont wanna autoattack urself out of stealth if u dont have the energy to ss
could lose out on time in ur crackshot window
keen belfry
id nevr do that
glass mortar
i feel like ive autoattacked myself out of vanish quite a bit tho
keen belfry
id only blast
leaden folio
I mean, there is a reason, maybe macro startattack not the best, but I remember have done that
glass mortar
well back in vanilla and most of classic melee attacks did not automatically aquire targets/start ur auto
if u didnt have resources
so i have startattack macros on my attacks there
i just wasnt aware there was any reason for it on live
keen belfry
so youre saying im not rank 1 cuz my macros?
glass mortar
no ur not r1 because of ur micros
leaden folio
not rank 1 because you play outlaw without being french
sudden fulcrum
don't even have the French buff 
late swallow
/startattack
/cast 99 Parse
as lot of people forget that second line
keen belfry
ty somnius
late swallow
when you could get 100
doesn't work for 100 unfort
they patched it
something to do with ramadan I think
covert heart
But you have to be French which is the nerf
chilly atlas
croissants are pretty good
fervent garden
i like the fries
covert heart
I use to live in new orleans i know what that french sewer system is like
glass mortar
thats not a nice thing to call a city
covert heart
Being creole is the way to be
vapid blaze
does evasion not work against mug zee mines
vapid blaze
idk i faced it and grappled into it
maybe you still cant soak 2 with it?
vapid blaze
oh right it does magic hit too
vivid vessel
press ks
novel socket
and kill you on impact
vivid vessel
soak 5 at a time
novel socket