outlaw

[proven ocean]

im surprised no one knows about it

DM's only 100k gold per info share

[glass mortar]

is that this seasons mount zac? or next

[vivid vessel]

bro, they did it like 3 weeks in a row

its wednesday rn

its 23 cest

we are still last week

[lime lake]

they keep using pst and edt at the same time for some reason too

[vivid vessel]

why

isnt it different

[vivid vessel]

Ye next I guess

But ye

[lime lake]

one is standard time one is daylight time

[vivid vessel]

Wild how they just keep messing it up

Every week

[lime lake]

but both time zones should be pdt/edt atm

[vivid vessel]

You would think it's not that hard

You say it will be up at x hour

You just

Do that

No?

They said that 3 hours ago

It's not like they announced it 3 weeks ago

Oh well

[red zinc]

what dungeons are they even testing next week

[vivid vessel]

priory

ara

dawn

flood

and echo

honesrly im a bit disapointed cause

they changed stuffs in priory

but they still havent actually touched on the actual issue

footman shields

and footmans giving litterlay half the count as mages

while being double the health

reducing their hp by 15% is like

eeeeh

[red zinc]

Litterlay

Ye

[proven ocean]

nah

[red zinc]

Its something at least

[proven ocean]

changes are good

[red zinc]

Every change is good except the first boss mechanic thing

Boring boss that you can pull stuff on is kinda interesting sometimes

[proven ocean]

i genuinely dont think it needs more changes, only shield DR should be reduced by 50% of its current amount

then its fine

[red zinc]

Idk how hard the new spear is but

Looks aids

[proven ocean]

% is very good on the footmens

they dont need to have high effeciency

[haughty wigeon]

new spear is

[proven ocean]

they do nothing practically

so

[red zinc]

Tell that to the doom bracket tanks

[proven ocean]

can't make the dungeon entirely free by making footmens give same count as a caster which can kill you

and no shield and same hp

thats just not possible

mechanics have to be there so

[red zinc]

Only thing about those footmen that confuses me

Why do they recast sometimes

I thought it was only 50%

trigger

[proven ocean]

well

thats the main issue

how high is their DR btw?

like say its 50%? it has to be 25%

[red zinc]

50% aswell afaik

[proven ocean]

and has to be to the knight itself only

footmen*

and not aoe DR

[glass mortar]

zac only hates footmen cause he doesnt have cheap or kidney on his bar cmm

💅

greedy rogue

wont even use 3 gcds of his subterfuge to cheap shot the mobs

[vivid vessel]

Hm

[glass mortar]

how much damage could 3 gcds of crackshot cost you? 10????

[vivid vessel]

I just think the footman's loses you too much time

They Perma cast shield

[proven ocean]

nah like realistically footemsn are just very good rn at -15% hp

[glass mortar]

(i agree they r cringe tho)

[vivid vessel]

Which is 50% AOE dr

[proven ocean]

only dr has to be 25%

[vivid vessel]

Which is insane

[proven ocean]

and its gonna be fine

or it can also be 50%

but

only to the footmens themselves

not to everyone

they dont need an hp nerf

just a shield rework

[vivid vessel]

Footmens are still hm,

Bout 30% more healthy than casters

Still give half the count

And the shield

Like if you can just kick

In the end

You still can't really do anything with the footman's

I wish the shield just got nuked

[junior coral]

so realistically what are yall hoping youll see on friday for outlaw buffs?

[vivid vessel]

Friday?

Since when do they do shit on friday

[red zinc]

Never

[junior coral]

no idea lol, was watching a video earlier today and they said historically they release some thing on friday after the last raid testing

[vivid vessel]

Well raid testing was last week

Last last week

I think

[junior coral]

ah maybe a late video i unno

[red zinc]

Itll happen whenever they feel like honestly

[vivid vessel]

But ye idk

[red zinc]

No point anticipating

[vivid vessel]

It's likely outlaw get some st buffs

And hopefully more adjustment to ks

Or any adjustments to kd

Ks

Since they made litteraly none

Other than buffing the damage over and over

Like it would fix anything

[red zinc]

What if

They buffed it again

[vivid vessel]

ye i mean

at this point

i wouldnt be surprised

[red zinc]

What are we on now

Relative to live

[vivid vessel]

wdym

[red zinc]

130% increase in dmg?

[vivid vessel]

no fucking clue ngl

[red zinc]

Ill compare wowhead values in a sec

125 to 196

Not that crazy nvm

[vivid vessel]

well cd was doubled? also

so

[glass mortar]

the oh component used to do half damage as well

and it doesnt anymore

[red zinc]

Oh aight

[junior coral]

life been a grind, i started S2 as sub and hated it only to see outlaw/sin was better... came back like 2 weeks ago as outlaw... feels pretty good, granted only at 16 key my ilvl is shit. was really hoping to play outlaw S3 and go hard... hmmmm

i always get the doom feeling when i check discord/tier list videos pre patch when it comes to outlaw lmao

[red zinc]

Ok yeah its like 90% more dps then

If you napkin math the longer cast

not counting cd though

[vivid vessel]

also longer channel

so

uh

[red zinc]

i said that

cuh

[vivid vessel]

you said that

ahd ye you said that

i cant read bro its fine

[uncut mulch]

I just started playing outlaw and was wondering, since we have 2-3 different builds for M+, which one is better when lacking gear, or if theres a prerequiste to making some of the builds work? Thank you.

[glass mortar]

ho m+ build is easiest to gear for (lowest haste level needed) and the easiest to learn

regardless the only "Gearing for" you really need to do is obtaining whatever haste level is needed per build

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[uncut mulch]

Oh ok so our Haste level dictates which build is better

[remote pecan]

no, just which build you can play optimally.

[glass mortar]

uh kinda

i mean u dont wanna play any build without its minimum haste

its not pleasant and not good

that build just has the lowest haste requirement

[remote pecan]

HO still likes haste with supercharger. I'd just get ~18% base then you can play w/e you want

[glass mortar]

well the non ghostly build wants more like 13-15%

[remote pecan]

might be better at this point just focussing on KiR tho as it's likely to be the better build next season

[glass mortar]

but yea for raid HO/kir you will want to obtain a way to hit ~19% anyway

which you can do if u get to 14% and just haste flask which is nice

[tender wedge]

Yeah I like to gear for 15% ish haste then use flask if I want to play KiR

Seems much more flexible

[uncut mulch]

alright noted , so increase Haste makes the builds more optimal too play

thanks for the proper explanations lads

[tender wedge]

By the time you get new tier you’ll have all new gear anyway most likely so not sure gearing for KiR NOW has that much value from that perspective

Probably better just from a general point of view, because playing HO with KiR haste is perfectly fine, but playing KiR with HO haste suuuucks

[burnt ravine]

i thought KiR was better partly because of the current tier set? is it still going to be better in the next tier?

[uncut mulch]

aOhh ok ok

[gaunt phoenix]

Nah the current tier helps HO more than KIR

[red zinc]

Current tier isnt that impactful

[tender wedge]

Naw HO tends to be propped up by current tier

[red zinc]

Next tier will be kir favored

[tender wedge]

HO will drop off with s3 tier

[burnt ravine]

I see

[red zinc]

HO probably also slightly drops off due to needing less haste so you get vers dr faster

But thats too cooked maybe

[tender wedge]

That’s technically true but probably minimal effect

Maybe a little singed

[chilly atlas]

zac almost doing 2/3 hunter dmg, outlaw op?

[proven ocean]

clapnoth — 2:39 AM
zac almost doing 2/3 hunter dmg, outlaw op?

[vivid vessel]

not pressing kir for a full min is weird man

i got used to that not being a thing anymore

[glass mortar]

zac

i had an idea

maybe u wouldnt like it tho

what if kir just gave u +2 or +1 buffs in addition to extension

normalize its use more

+2 might be too much tho u could kir off almost any roll

[dawn talon]

ew

[vivid vessel]

Idk

I really love the idea and gameplay of fishing for buffs

It feels so nice

When you get all of them and press the button

But I don't like the rng

But CTO is too scarces

buff cto again

[glass mortar]

cto shouldnt get deleted

when u rtb

overrided fine

cto proc should just be 10 seconds of the buff tho

regardless of ur rolling

[vivid vessel]

i mean

that should be just how cto/kir buffs works prolly

just being able to roll perma

with them up

[glass mortar]

i was thinking how u keep the variable rolling after casting kir a thing but codify it to make it simpler and honestly its tough

u could do something like kir extends ur buffs by 30s and as long as they have longer then 30s duration remaining your Rtb wont replace them

so u can just fit in as many RtB casts as possible in that window or something

i feel like the container nonsense needs to go regardless

[proper bear]

I so hope that they don’t mega kill HO, i hate fishing for buffs tbh

[umbral pivot]

what poison is the best for outlaw?

[glass mortar]

atrophic generally, mind numbing can reduce damage ur tank takes by more but thats usually not relevant

[umbral pivot]

which one is that i dont have that one

[glass mortar]

are u talking about lethal or non lethal poisons

u have mind numbing

atrophic is the choice node with it

in ur class tree

u can have one or the other

[dim parrot]

!guides

[ornate heath]

Outlaw Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/outlaw-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/outlaw-rogue

[umbral pivot]

non lethal

[glass mortar]

then u want atrophic or mind numbing

[vivid vessel]

Ok I got gapped on that gambit

But

I think hunter does too much damage on pull it's all pad

No cap

Can't wait to get buffed next reset

Outlaw gonna blast

[mighty pivot]

don't you mean tomorrow?

[vivid vessel]

why tomorrow

thats cooked

tomorrow is

well

which tomorrow

tonmorrow of today

or of tomorrow

[mighty pivot]

thursday

[vivid vessel]

thursday notes uh

thats so cooked

[covert kestrel]

I love hopium zac

[vivid vessel]

even more cooked than friday notes

[mighty pivot]

it happened last week no?

[vivid vessel]

Gmm

I don't remember

[vivid vessel]

I'm reformed

[white marten]

Thursday notes gonna be all rogue buffs

[mighty pivot]

it was 10/7 when they added the extra rogue changes yes

[lime lake]

thursday is when we got the changes they announced on tuesday

[vivid vessel]

[mighty pivot]

so there is still hope :)))))

[white marten]

S tier here we come 🥰

[mighty pivot]

S(hit) tier ST

[white marten]

Not once we get a 10% buff to our ST

[covert heart]

Except this time

Its def happening

[umbral pivot]

which rogue build is the hidden opportunity one? and is keep it rolling build good?

im trying to see which bis gear to get on my rogue but its based on keep it rolling or hidden opportunity,but im not sure which one to use

[glass mortar]

hidden oppurtunity is the one that ambushes kir is the one that doesnt

both are good

very similar st

kir is abit ahead in high target aoe

[umbral pivot]

i was using this one in wowhead is this one hiddne opportunity?

[glass mortar]

yes

that is the m+ HO build

[somber patio]

see's HO selected on tree /shrug

[glass mortar]

ho and kir are the name of the talents on the bottom left and bottom middle of the spec tree

that is what tells you which build it is

[umbral pivot]

oh i see,sooo do they play very differently? and if so which one is like highest damage?

[glass mortar]

damage is nearly identical in st

kir a bit better in dungeons

[midnight thorn]

when to pop pot? can/should i macro it to AR?

[glass mortar]

especially on the higher end

they do play differently, not crazy different but generators are used differently

id recommend trying both

[glass mortar]

on cd to maximize usages a fight is fine, if ur optimizing usage on a known duration fight, i try to hold my second usage for a 5 buff but it doesnt rlly matter

number of uses > quality of uses for outlaw

as long as u dont use it when AR isnt up

u can do cute things like delay it for right before a vanish or w/e but it doesnt rlly matter

just dont use it when ur energy starved and have no AR etc

[midnight thorn]

I see makes sense, so for example if theres a big pull at start of dungeon, but I dont get the 5 buff, might be better to save?

[sullen narwhal]

HO is one letter away from being a gamer word

[glass mortar]

no if theres a big pull u should just send it because u wanna hit maximum targets with it

[midnight thorn]

or always pot with lust id imagine

[sullen narwhal]

And it's kinda pronounced the same

[glass mortar]

if u knew u could delay it without losing a potusage u could hold it but in ur example ur almost certainly using ur pot on a a smaller pull next

[midnight thorn]

makes sense, thank you!

[timber rune]

I was watching some Zac aka tomelvis in PTR and our ST is so dog shit it makes me laugh

[keen belfry]

does anyone know what causes rookery soak things on last boss

to just miss

[sudden fulcrum]

blindness

[keen belfry]

no like bug out

that missed

[lime lake]

Spill issue

[keen belfry]

it happens often to me

[red zinc]

@vivid vessel do you never get copyright strikes on your streams or do you just not save vods like that

kinda curious how that works on twitch now

[torpid fiber]

don't look at damage meter

(not ur fault ur playing sub)

[covert kestrel]

subwang?

never thought id see the day

[red zinc]

He was forced to play sub rogue

🦭

[torpid fiber]

https://i.imgflip.com/6an3o7.gif

[toxic star]

so ive already sent this into wowa and the results arent surprising (2 bad AR casts re cps and 2 bad finishers), but surely i should be doing more here? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/P8aWQZvj6AzTYnRg?fight=4&pull=15&type=damage-done&source=6 im only 665 at this time but still

[torpid fiber]

dw I have the gif favourited so it's always on hand

[keen belfry]

im doing a billion dmg rn

[torpid fiber]

it clearly says 54.67m

[keen belfry]

watch

stream

NOW

[torpid fiber]

ok

[umbral pivot]

im a bit confused in keep it rolling rotation u use ambush but above it says to never use ambush in keep it rolling build,also i looked att both HO and KIR and i dont rly see a difference in spenders unless im blind,like it looks so simillar that only thing i notice different is keep it rolling

[latent oak]

u dont use ambush ever as hir

kir

[covert kestrel]

i think you have both keep it rolling and hidden opportunity selected on wowhead

[umbral pivot]

i dont

[covert kestrel]

weird

dont ambush

(and you should have deft talented if doing aoe in kir)

[latent oak]

maybe bad ping actually

[covert kestrel]

nah i think this is just a bug on wowheads side not an error with the guide

[latent oak]

if u control f5

does it fix it

[latent oak]

ya exactly

[glass mortar]

u dont ambush ever as kir

[latent oak]

although maybe he has good ways of getting the info to the right ppl idk

[covert kestrel]

(also check out #outlaw-faq its op)

[umbral pivot]

okay so if i never cast ambush in KIR im a bit confused how do i generate points when im in vanish for beetween the eyes?

[covert kestrel]

always sinister strike

[latent oak]

u just cast sinister strike

[covert kestrel]

stealth or njot

[glass mortar]

sinister strike, BF in aoe, PS

[umbral pivot]

oh i didnt know i could use sinister strike in stealth 💀

[covert kestrel]

highly recommend keeping your stealth and non stealth bars the same

[latent oak]

there is a macro for it somewhere

idk the command tho

!builder

!ss

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[latent oak]

!ambush

[ornate heath]

It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[latent oak]

this will only ever use ambush as hidden opportunity

and never as kir

[umbral pivot]

interesting,sorry im just a bit overwhelmed,so if my stealth bar as ambush as number 1 in my keyboard when i press it it will use sinist strike if im in KIR?

[latent oak]

u need to drag that macro onto ur stealth bar

on the 1 key

and it should show as ss while in kir build

[cinder relic]

what am I getting pinged for

[latent oak]

and as ambush in ho build

look this dudes screenshots

although probably a wowhead issue not ur guide issue

is why i deleted ping

[cinder relic]

Happens soemtimes if u click shit a bunch idk

[umbral pivot]

it fixed when i refreshed the page

oh so i was curious beetween both builds which has the best ST?

[sharp hinge]

any new updated with rogue?

been working too much this past week to see any news

[umbral pivot]

and this is only if i play both builds right? if i just play 1 build i dont need this macro right?

[latent oak]

ya

[sudden fulcrum]

someone should make a website that aggregates WoW news

we could call it wow....noggin

[sharp hinge]

do you hate me muffin

[sudden fulcrum]

no i don't even know you

[lime lake]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-i-dont-even-know-who-you-are-marvel-gif-15769006

[umbral pivot]

does anyone know?

[sharp hinge]

im just trying to make conversation

[glass mortar]

they r basically identical

[sharp hinge]

and get some feedback on things i may have missed

[glass mortar]

st

if u need to play fatebound uve gotta play kir tho

ho fatebound is ass

trickster ho and fatebound kir r very close st, trickster kir is a little behind

[wintry solar]

Ho is ass

Unless something was found out in the last 5 hours while I was asleep

Oh this isn't for next season nvm

[glass mortar]

we r talking about live

[mighty pivot]

popo nonsense

[glass mortar]

but u should probably start practicing kir soonish cause

ho is not very good on ptr

noticably behind kir

1 fth is coming

even if u hate it

[mighty pivot]

it's ok all 3 rogue devs PMed and they are rebalancing things this week

[wintry solar]

Funny

[mighty pivot]

ok it's a lie, they didn't PM me - they told my cats and my cats leaked the info

[covert kestrel]

poopoo #1 HO hater

[wintry solar]

I think I'm gonna be a kir hater next season. Haven't decided

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[wintry solar]

Nah

[mighty pivot]

unless they change things there is not much choice

[glass mortar]

kir is fine i just dont wanna play 1 fth man

1 fth without this tier set so broadside uptime goes down

[mighty pivot]

ez drop GS

[covert kestrel]

giving more ammo to the redditors hating on outlaws rng

[mighty pivot]

even more negative ST though

[glass mortar]

xd

[mighty pivot]

I had this brilliant idea earlier

[glass mortar]

our st looks so ass on ptr

if ur dropping ghostly ur just

[wintry solar]

Inting

[mighty pivot]

what if CTO always gave you BS first if you didn't have it

hire me (remotely) blizzard

[umbral pivot]

ok then ig ill play KIR then

[sudden fulcrum]

blizzard is known for paying poorly

you don't actually want that

[lime lake]

if its remote work its probably enough

since you arent stuck in fucking irvine

[sudden fulcrum]

you can be remote and paid well, which is the dream

[covert kestrel]

might not be the worst idea to mess around with ho right now just to get the basics down, kir is just adding a couple extra things that are complicated on top of the core rotation so maybe you can play ho now and transition to kir for the new patch

[mighty pivot]

yeah my monthly costs are probably like half what is the norm for people in irvine or w/e and I would also be safe from the insanity that is going on in the US

[umbral pivot]

is the Keep it rolling cleave the m+ one and keep it rolling the st one?

[sudden fulcrum]

international remote might be more tricky

typically you have to be in the same time zone at least

[mighty pivot]

I never said it seriously, but honestly that would be the easiest thing because I'm awake now and it's 3 in the morning

that's 18:00 there

[umbral pivot]

i played HO for a good time now,its time to move to KIR and learn

[covert kestrel]

just use the builds in #outlaw-faq

[keen belfry]

rookery keeps bugging

we are going to time the key with like 530 remaining

[lime lake]

https://tenor.com/view/spill-issue-oh-no-my-milj-orange-cat-orange-cat-milk-milk-cat-gif-11913986030845101804

[keen belfry]

and the thing happens

[sudden fulcrum]

small indie company

never seen that bug but that sucks ass

[keen belfry]

its happened like 9ish times to me past 2 weeks

resil yay i guess

[umbral pivot]

huh which build in there do u recommend for KIR st

there is a bunch there and the first recommended is OH

[covert kestrel]

If you're doing mythic sprocket do the fatebound all else do trickster

[umbral pivot]

so this one basically?

[gaunt phoenix]

KIR trickster with single target talents is used in the raid yeah. though HO trickster is more common in the raid.

KIR trickster is more common in M+

[umbral pivot]

sooooo i should play fatebound KIR?

[gaunt phoenix]

Fatebound KIR is used on mythic sprocket really. not much else

simply because killing spree will wipe the raid so trickster cannot be used at all

[umbral pivot]

the guy above also said OH will be horrible on the future

[gaunt phoenix]

HO? yeah HO is dying off in season 3 unless they tune it

[umbral pivot]

so KIR trickster would be the best for st correct?

[gaunt phoenix]

for literal single target, fatebound is slightly better

but the ONLY fight that is single target

is sprocket

Every other fight has aoe, so trickster instantly wins, because it amps blade flurry damage so much

[umbral pivot]

okay got it,so its this build right? idk if its outdated or not

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[haughty wigeon]

hey guys

CRAZY new outlaw fix

what if

bte is removed

but

dispatch has a rng chance to turn into bte?

thoughts?

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

[spring bay]

How about remove dispatch and keep bte

[umbral pivot]

chat what keybind should i use keep it rolling on? and do we ever use shiv?

[gaunt phoenix]

Uhh my KIR is shift E

and shiv is just utility, dispells enrages

not for dps

[umbral pivot]

i see

i think ill use KIR on G since its a 6 min cooldown

so i dont have to press it so often

unless we have any talent that reduces its cooldown

?

[haughty wigeon]

to reduce button bloat of course

if it wasnt clear

[gaunt phoenix]

All our cooldowns are lowered by spending combo points

[haughty wigeon]

its the a forum poster

[gaunt phoenix]

through restless blades

[haughty wigeon]

thats the second suggestion

but that would just make bte overloaded for no reason

[gaunt phoenix]

KIR is really more like a 1 minute average cooldown

[glass mortar]

has cdr gone too far

xd

[umbral pivot]

i think ill do this then,F is easy to press G is somewhat easy too

[gaunt phoenix]

F is stealth !

[umbral pivot]

my stealth is on X

vanish that is

[covert kestrel]

Babe my KiR is shift E

[fair oak]

Keybind kir to switching to gear 4 on a mercedes 190 model

[gaunt phoenix]

[covert kestrel]

Mouse wheel up is stealth, F is adr

[gaunt phoenix]

[covert kestrel]

I love keybind conversations

They're so wacky

https://tenor.com/view/everybodyssocreative-tanaradoublechocolate-tiktok-gif-27631397

[umbral pivot]

question what keybind do yall use for stealth? mine is still ctrl f1 idk what keybind to give it

[fair oak]

tab

[gaunt phoenix]

F is stealth !

[glass mortar]

s is stealth

shift s if adren rush

[umbral pivot]

what if you alt tab?

[fair oak]

then I alt then tab

I dont usually alt tab mid combat tho

or like

mid keys usually

[covert kestrel]

What is normal F1 😂

I never touch f row keys

[gaunt phoenix]

f1 is lightyears away

[sudden fulcrum]

if you have tiny hands maybe

[gaunt phoenix]

hands too short

[fair oak]

I can comfortably reach Y and H on my keyboard

[umbral pivot]

it was just the default no clue what to change it to

[umbral pivot]

what da hell is AE,AA,AZ

[fair oak]

alt

[umbral pivot]

oop

[gaunt phoenix]

is your alt on the mouse or do you press alt

[fair oak]

I press it

[gaunt phoenix]

nice

[fair oak]

my mouse is for super spammed rotational stuff on all specs

mb4/5 is prime real estate keybinds

[umbral pivot]

ig ill use caps lock maybe not sure

[tight egret]

So beautiful

[fair oak]

that's a big ace up your sleeve

what else do you have up your sleeve huh

[tight egret]

Going to make me blush

[umbral pivot]

which build do i wanna run for m+

[gaunt phoenix]

the version where you remove 1 FTH is most common though it is kind of hard to play

you know you can see what people are playing right?

its like, by far the most common build

[umbral pivot]

i can? how?

[gaunt phoenix]

sites like warcraftlogs or archon will aggregate talent usage

[fair oak]

I tried kir and ho builds a ton in keys I prefer ho honestly it's less punishing when you die even kir does a bit more overall

extending a buff then dying to some shit makes me just want to go next

obviously just don't die but I'm like

not very good

[gaunt phoenix]

yea I like HO atm, will miss it

even if kir is a bit better

[umbral pivot]

sooo im a bit confused with KIR ur supossed to sinister strike when u use vanish to generate combo points,but isnt that way slower than using ambush?

[fair oak]

but then I go raider.io slash tomelvis and I see him do 7m overall and I feel like aa stupid idiot

[sudden fulcrum]

i don't think it makes sense to compare yourself to one of the best rogues in the world

[gaunt phoenix]

without the talents to make ambush proc opportunity, it is terrible

you also dont just sinister strike, you follow the builder priority

[umbral pivot]

doesnt that mean u get way less beetween the eyes tho? or am i missing something

[lime lake]

he didnt compare himself to me wdym

just some thomas guy

[umbral pivot]

this is my stealth action bar

[gaunt phoenix]

well you need pistol shot

because pistol shot is part of the builder priority

[umbral pivot]

what else do i wanna have in stealth action bar? keep it rolling and roll the bones?

[gaunt phoenix]

your stealth bar should just be the same as your normal bar

you should be able to press anything at any moment

[umbral pivot]

oh okay,but then where do i put my stealth abilities like distract or cheap shot? or do we just never use those?

[gaunt phoenix]

they dont need to be on the stealth bar

they can be on a different bar

[lime lake]

just dont bind cheap shot

[gaunt phoenix]

stealth being active just lets you use them

i mean you use cheap shot sometimes

better than sending kidney shot in stealth

[lime lake]

dont bind kidney either

[gaunt phoenix]

xdd

[lime lake]

[umbral pivot]

so huh this might be a dumb question but

if thats the case and both my bars are the same how do i know when im fully out of vanish

[gaunt phoenix]

there is some rng, but the kir build has high RTB buff uptime with buffs like broadside and skull and crossbones, which makes sinister strike itself not that bad. it also very careful with pistol shot usage, and will tend to have/generate pistol shot procs in stealth

in aoe you also generate cps with blade flurry as priority

Ambush is really bad since it cannot double hit and proc opportunity

with this build

[gaunt phoenix]

weakauras

you use a weakaura to track when stealth/subterfuge is active

[umbral pivot]

okayyy so i have a question

should i unbind any of these skills?

[gaunt phoenix]

No you use everything there

[fair oak]

yo is that haymaker

[lime lake]

well

[umbral pivot]

i was thinking of unbinding slice and dice since we never use it,same with the shift R and shift T and shift 6

[umbral pivot]

yus proud kul tiran

[gaunt phoenix]

sometimes you use slice and dice between pulls

you do use kidney shot sometimes as a stop

and you certainly do use tricks

[lime lake]

also no reason to unbind them anyway if you dont have a specific thing you want to use those keybinds for

[umbral pivot]

makes sense

in what situation do yall ever use tricks tho?

[lime lake]

at worst move tricks to a less useful keybind but you'll still want it bound

[umbral pivot]

i alsmot never use it

[gaunt phoenix]

uhh tricks is really good and Trickster makes it last 1 hour

Outlaw doesnt ramp its damage

without tricks you can like

instantly pull aggro from the tank

also lets you hit mobs while the tank is gathering

[umbral pivot]

sooo i just press it whenever i do a m+ or raid on the tank?

[lime lake]

or the dev evoker for fun

[gaunt phoenix]

you dont really risk losing aggro in the raid, mostly in keys

you just send it on the tank at the start of the key

[late swallow]

imagine if you could tricks enemy npcs

the tech would be crazy

[gaunt phoenix]

also need to reapply if you die

[umbral pivot]

interesting and for poisons i assume u go numb poison and wound ?

[gaunt phoenix]

not wound poison, instant poison

wound poison is for pvp, and very rarely sometimes in pve

[umbral pivot]

my raid talent build has atro thingy,but my m+ doesnt have it

[gaunt phoenix]

numbing poison is generally good in keys, atrophic poison in raid

atrophic is sometimes preferred in dangerous keys

numbing poison mitigates a lot of tank damage, and helps you kick shit

[umbral pivot]

i see

i need to set up a weakaura

do i wanna bind any of these ones?

[lime lake]

oh you dont have blind bound

yeah thats kind of important

[gaunt phoenix]

you dont really pickpocket but otherwise yeah you do press everything

i feel like you got the impression that we unbind stuff when we don't

[umbral pivot]

i just dont like having uneccesary skills binded since i only have 2 action bars with binds on them

[gaunt phoenix]

The entire rogue toolkit kind of is a lot of binds

[lime lake]

i'd consider trying to play with alt as a modifier as well as shift

will solve any issues you have with binds

[umbral pivot]

i already use shift

[lime lake]

yeah alt will give you another entire row of binds

[umbral pivot]

i just feel like thats a bit hard to press

[late swallow]

shift-j, shift-k, and shift-l are my fav binds

[lime lake]

some people bind ctrl to capslock and use that

[sudden fulcrum]

you can also rebind r, c, b too if you don't mind clicking those

[lime lake]

if thats easier for you to press

[gaunt phoenix]

i mean 1-6, shift 1-6, Q E R T F G, shift Q E R T F G is 24 binds

think most people use these

also mouse buttons

[umbral pivot]

these are the ones i use

[late swallow]

no z, x, c?

[gaunt phoenix]

sure

z is mount !

[lime lake]

idk going to 6 is diabolical

[gaunt phoenix]

sure

[late swallow]

yeah 6 is too much

[lime lake]

zxcv though

[late swallow]

5 and T is the furthest West I'd go

G too

[torpid fiber]

i used shift/alt/ctrl on kb when i used kb bc i still kept q/e bound to turning

i found it way harder to hit c/v quickly than having stuff on ctrl when needed

[lime lake]

c is fine for me, v i only use for things i dont press too often but still want bound

[torpid fiber]

and now i use a tartarus and i still have shift/ctrl/alt binds but i fucked up so the corner button on the tartarus is bound to alt not ctrl and i cba to fix it and rebind all the controls

[covert kestrel]

Z IS MOUNT TWINNNN

[gaunt phoenix]

[lime lake]

mount is an opie wheel bound to shift+space

[late swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont use c or v

kinda cooked

[umbral pivot]

so i have to make 6 binds and bind all of these,besides ambush

ahhhh idk

[late swallow]

damn china is getting an exclusive classic release

[torpid fiber]

wait do you not have stealth bound

i feel like you surely need stealth bound

[umbral pivot]

not in my action bar but i have a keybind for it

[autumn idol]

stance button

[torpid fiber]

ah then yeah that works

as long as you have a bind for stealth it's fine

just don't be clicking on it

[umbral pivot]

shift Q is the bind

[torpid fiber]

i have a distract bind but it's really out of the way
there's a bunch of binds that yes technically I have available to me with the modifiers i use and the keys that are comfortable to use, but the combination of that modifier key + the actual keybind means they're ass so I put abilities I very rarely use (but also aren't going to int the group if i misinput them) on those shit binds

[umbral pivot]

thats what im thinking of doing but idk what abilities ill rarely use from these

[torpid fiber]

cheap shot is like
i guess you should probably have it bound but you will essentially never press it

[late swallow]

my distract is shift-mouse wheel down

[torpid fiber]

i could not unbind mouse wheel from zoom i constantly spam zoom out

[lime lake]

same lmao

[grim spear]

tbh you won't want to play that

[late swallow]

haha nah I like to keep the cam generally locked in

having mouse wheel free is like +4 binds

[sudden fulcrum]

the China release sounds pretty cool tbh and i think it's what Dastardly Duos should have been

[umbral pivot]

okay ig i kinda fixed it

is this better?

[late swallow]

up to you to figure out what feels good for you king

[umbral pivot]

i did it based on priority and i assumed blind is the most important one out of those 5 right?

[late swallow]

just mess with em while you play and see what feels right

[late swallow]

i have rtb on F too

[umbral pivot]

my roll the bones is on mouse button

not F

[torpid fiber]

my only concern here is that kick on 6 is decently far away

[umbral pivot]

thats KIR

[umbral pivot]

im used to it

[late swallow]

holy shit I'm cooked

on mobile rn

[torpid fiber]

if it works for u it works

[umbral pivot]

so it shouldnt be an issue

alt + number just doesnt feel good at all but i dont know any other options so ig ill run that

ill just have to get used to it but i mean ill barelly press anything up there besides maybe blind?

[grim spear]

I don't know how it is in other regions

but in CN Classic, it's basically all GDKP runs

Everyone is playing to make money

[sudden fulcrum]

well yes the culture there is entirely different

[grim spear]

you pay to buy gear and get into raids, then you participate in the raid to sell gear and get the gold.

This new version of Classic will be the same. It's not even a game anymore, more like a job.

[sudden fulcrum]

that's not really what i'm talking about though

[chilly atlas]

wow is just unemployment simulator

[sudden fulcrum]

i like the stuff mentioned in this tweet https://x.com/NasDaCN/status/1945222108549931109

NasDa (@NasDaCN)

To celebrate #WoW China's 20th anniversary, NetEase and Blizzard are working together to launch a brand new Classic experience in China, the Titan Reforged realm called Time.

Coming this November, Titan Reforged realm combines all the contents from Classic, The Burning Crusade,

X · Jul 15, 2025, 8:41 PM

[umbral pivot]

sooo when do you use blind in what situation?

[lime lake]

blind is an aoe stop

[grim spear]

yep

[chilly atlas]

usually just as a stop

[lime lake]

use it to stop stuff

[grim spear]

the idea is sort of cool

[umbral pivot]

to stop stuff like to interrupt?

[sudden fulcrum]

like the algae things in Floodgate

[umbral pivot]

like aoe interrupt?

[chilly atlas]

yeah

[sudden fulcrum]

they all cast simultaneously

[lime lake]

yep

[chilly atlas]

exactly

[grim spear]

I like it, and mourn it for what it could be

[umbral pivot]

do yall ever use kidney shot? or is that low priority

[late swallow]

you'll never really press it in raid

and it's like an omega giga last resort in keys

[finite arch]

Is opening with KS bad? XD

[umbral pivot]

okay so blind is like more important than kidney shot

[finite arch]

I press KS in a sub window

[late swallow]

yeah it's just less resources

you're not committing CPs, just a global

[late swallow]

you want to delay your first KS after your opening subt window

[umbral pivot]

i wish haymaker was better i dont like the time to charge but everytime i press it,it feels like a fuck you to the enemy its so good

oh yeah i forgot to ask with the cartel chips is there a specific thing i want? i cant get any of the myth pieces so what do i get?

[covert kestrel]

Heroic capo knuckles

[late swallow]

Capn knuckles

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/cragsand-crag-knuckles-ugandan-knuckles-dance-gif-25615492

[umbral pivot]

thats better than the gallywix iron thumb?

[covert kestrel]

Ya

[umbral pivot]

oke

[covert kestrel]

You should use crafted main hand, capo off hand

And use the nightfall cudgel in m+ for trash packs

#outlaw message

[umbral pivot]

well i just started gearing so i dont have a good main hand

[covert kestrel]

Well use whatever highest ilvl you have for main hand

But prio crafting a 681 main hand adap

Asap

Don't upgrade anything else til you get that

[late swallow]

green name fronteir when?

[umbral pivot]

will that still be usefull next season?

[umbral pivot]

is there a specific 681 main that i want too that is bis?

[covert kestrel]

All of the agi ones are the same just cost different depending on mats

[covert kestrel]

Well main hand ilvl is one of the most important things for melee dps, so yeah but you will be replacing quickly

[umbral pivot]

hmmm so should i rly craft it or just wait for season 3

[blazing bloom]

Brand new to outlaw rogue.. absolutely loving it, however, I can feel my brain melting playing this spec lol

How long until you guys got the muscle memory down

[shell fossil]

minutes

[chilly atlas]

just like start ho, figure that out then add things to it

[shell fossil]

honestly the sub is harder to memorize

imo

[grim spear]

Just play and don’t worry about “how long it takes.”

Every time you feel a bit off, just go hit the dummy for a while.

tbh

this rocks

[lime lake]

wtf is that helmet and shoulders

[grim spear]

only in cn servers for now

[lime lake]

https://tenor.com/view/noooooo-crying-gif-13009005

[ember topaz]

Hey guys I got a question, I just ran an 8 target sim with cudgel and its telling me it's a dps loss, yet I see everyone and their mothers using it

Are the sims borked for it?

[gaunt phoenix]

patchwerk sims are essentially bosses so vanish doesnt reset it

[ember topaz]

Does the dungeon sim work for outlaw?

[covert kestrel]

i mean nothing will transfer over so why not get the best gear you can going into it?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes, but it doesnt weapon swap out of the cudgel for bosses

[ember topaz]

So it will still basically lower the value of cudgel because of the boss encounters

[gaunt phoenix]

if you want to sim sustain 8 target and allow vanish to reset it, you can declare it a dungeonroute

[ember topaz]

I basically just wanna know what weapons to run lol, I have a crafted 681 weapon with focusing lens, a hero track molten knuckles and cudgel, I was just wondering if I should get focusing lens on a ring for instance and then use like cudgel and molten knuckles for trash

[gaunt phoenix]

you should use 681 mainhand and swap between knuckles and cudgel for bosses/trash

[ember topaz]

Thanks brah

[vivid vessel]

No music on YouTube and no music on vod in twitch, and twitch doesn't care about live for copyright

[wintry solar]

who up simming they patchwerk?

[frank finch]

me

[wintry solar]

my stats are so bad

[vivid vessel]

Patch is over

You still have bad stats ?

That's crazy

[wintry solar]

its an alt so it doesnt matter

but still. 5% vers at 656

[vivid vessel]

Alt

Sussy

[wintry solar]

im race swapping

to vulp

[vivid vessel]

Pay up

Uh

To vulp?

Might as well race swap to goblin at this point

[wintry solar]

im not doing this for the racials. idc about those

look

[balmy topaz]

Gm zac

[vivid vessel]

Gn ruby

[balmy topaz]

gn???????

how were ptr keys ln

[vivid vessel]

Idk

I got turbo mega gapped

Idk why

I do more damage without a monk usually

I think hunter mm

Does so much on pull damage

It steals your pqd

Pad

I'm convinced of it

Cause I was doing legit tank damage the whole first area

Can't be true

[balmy topaz]

Gambit?

Ohh I just saw double MM hunter pull ye that is cringe

[vivid vessel]

Mobs running in gambit tho

Idk

That shit gotta get deleted there is no way

It's the most toxic cancer cringe ever

[balmy topaz]

Ye I do agree

Like why gambit

Literally cus they are murlocs

They run

[vivid vessel]

It's unplayable

And we even had hunters that put ups the thing down

Idk

Idk how you play this shit

Imma play super crippling poison actually

[balmy topaz]

Ye good shout

[hot olive]

and someone els bring another slow it shuled handle them no?

they run forever tho

[vivid vessel]

I mean idk

It's fairly toxic

Also slow don't stacks I think

Just the best one is applied

Which is mine

[wintry solar]

what dipshit would pay?

you level up in one day

[stiff hawk]

In old gambit it worked well

Because Binding was still a root

so they wouldnt run away

but now its only a stun

which is kind of a problem

[hot olive]

its gonna be hell in pugs

[balmy topaz]

Anything is hell in pugs

Have the cloaks been inputted into mimron yet?

[stiff hawk]

Hello Ruby

[balmy topaz]

Hello Tira

I am so excited to raid again

My mrs on the other hand

[stiff hawk]

She isnt excited

Well

UNLUCKY FOR HER

[balmy topaz]

Idk I think

[wintry solar]

no way

[balmy topaz]

She might be happy to get some dedicated her time

But that's why no 3/4 day raiding

cus she would be like wtf

[stiff hawk]

2day?

[balmy topaz]

Ye

[stiff hawk]

2 day is really relaxed

I mean its still alot of time

[haughty wigeon]

nothing new

[stiff hawk]

especially at the start

[haughty wigeon]

pugs cant stop running mobs for shit anyways

gonna scream at me the tank to sigil of chains them even tho it has a 2min cd

[balmy topaz]

Ye its the same guiild but a 2nd team has been made

[stiff hawk]

Nice

[balmy topaz]

You still in the same guild

[stiff hawk]

Yes

Im officer so, i have to

But its a really chill and fun atmosphere, every trial compliments that when we speak to them

[serene cosmos]

Do like I did.

Leave losers, get in correct guild, get CE

[balmy topaz]

Officer tira

[serene cosmos]

And I was also officers in the old one

[stiff hawk]

Im happy with my 2 day

and Wr 400

or something like that

[serene cosmos]

I'm in 2 days too

[stiff hawk]

so

[stiff hawk]

yeah since beginning of the year

[serene cosmos]

Just, in ancient guild, people were not listening at what officers were telling

It pissed me off

[balmy topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/thogdad-that-tastes-like-promotion-thogden-promotion-football-gif-27404840

[serene cosmos]

Better leave than being rude

[stiff hawk]

i mean

[serene cosmos]

But if the mood is nice, keep going 😛

[stiff hawk]

Guild would have been disbanded when there were no new officers

So 1 guy and me stepped up

and recruited a lot of people beginnign this year

[serene cosmos]

Good job

[stiff hawk]

[balmy topaz]

Recruitment is the worst

I commend you for that

[vivid vessel]

you have to level up and gear up another char when you already have

thats like a full week of time lost

in one hour of work

i pay a race swap

more worth

[vivid vessel]

its legit a terrible mechanic

everytime there are running mobs

its hell

idk why they keep doing it

if at least they would stop running after a stun

idk man

its legit terrible

[wintry solar]

I guess it depends on how free you are

like

I get a week off at a time

[haughty wigeon]

something something world fantasy and old mechanics resurfacing

all murlocks ran away in classic therefor they allllll need to run away even today

[vivid vessel]

in hals

there is the same shit tho

[haughty wigeon]

what runs in halls?

the sludge goblins?

[vivid vessel]

yep

under 50%

its horrible

[haughty wigeon]

jesus

ya i forgot about those guys

[stiff hawk]

I mean it wasnt that bad, best part is, we only had like 1-2 quits this tier

So not much to recruite

(Especially because we wanted a smaller roster anyways)

[desert tendon]

Running away mobs

Had à purpose 20 years ago

Now it s just à stupid chore

[finite arch]

cudgel is giga

[toxic star]

reposting this since it was late last night:

so ive already sent this into wowa and the results arent surprising (2 bad AR casts re cps and 2 bad finishers), but surely i should be doing more here? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/P8aWQZvj6AzTYnRg?fight=4&pull=15&type=damage-done&source=6 im only 665 at this time but still

[vestal notch]

!log

better to post there so u know where ti find the replies

[opal raven]

New outlaw bugs ???

[toxic star]

nah, only "new outlaw" :p

[opal raven]

Bte hitting dead target now

Wtfff

[toxic star]

not so diff to Trifiks hitting a dead horse or

[haughty wigeon]

Hi xeph

I heard u were outlawing

[dim widget]

Gotta make sure, imagine trash getting back up and smacking ur healer dead because you didn't make sure they ded ded

Why would blizz give us crackshot + ace if not to double tap and make sure enemies are long gone

[grim spear]

really made me laugh

[toxic star]

after a brief assa arc which was rather ass

[toxic star]

its inaccurate in cn

[haughty wigeon]

It ain’t for everyone

I hope you like outlaw tho

Banger spec

[red zinc]

Assa aint for anyone (assa players are mole people)

[toxic star]

yea its fun but fairly punishing

but looks like more gear also counteracts that unless you fuck up at the wrong time

[grim spear]

This season, Raider.IO is able retrieving data from the CN armory again. The import isn't fully complete yet, but the current data is mostly accurate.

[toxic star]

no, there is no CN armory access outside of CN

[haughty wigeon]

Ye outlaw is reactive but punishing as well

[toxic star]

you have to login with a netease account to access the CN armory

[haughty wigeon]

But like due to uptime memes

[red zinc]

Bro that overcharged mount being available for coins next season instead lmao

so much effort now or just a nonchalant buy next season

[grim spear]

In fact, you can already see it on WCL, without uploading logs. There’s likely an official partnership involved.

[toxic star]

wcl is not rio 🙂 rio has no access

[haughty wigeon]

[grim spear]

it has access now

[haughty wigeon]

U know xeph like

Does wcl stuff right

[grim spear]

u will see it in a few days

[toxic star]

if you open cn armory outside of CN https://wow.blizzard.cn/character/#/isillien/憎恶附肢 you see this

[grim spear]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/cutoffs/season-tww-2/cn

try

[toxic star]

thats just based on live logged data with rio client

its very incomplete

[grim spear]

no

I found me

with all the data, even though I’ve never uploaded anything to Raider.IO.

[fresh orchid]

hey, new to outlaw here, is there a chance killing spree animation gets reverted from gunning to blade dance? what is the community stake on this

[toxic star]

have you done a key with someone who used the client maybe

[grim spear]

i mean all the data

[arctic hollow]

Considering no one wants to revert and that we asked for it to be changed for years, i'd wager the chances are pretty low

[grim spear]

It's complete and accurate

even the PUGs I did a few days ago are all there. There's no way someone happened to log every single one.

In the past, you basically wouldn’t find a single run for the whole season

unless you uploaded it yourself.

[toxic star]

hmm yea something does seem to have changed

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-tww-2/22159194-20-the-rookery live logged
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-tww-2/27732753-21-cinderbrew-meadery not live logged

[haughty wigeon]

We like the gun animation

[fresh orchid]

ok thanks

[fresh orchid]

thanks!

[red zinc]

Ive been learning chinese from ig reels where a guy angrily screams very suspicious phrases

And i recognize like two characters

[grim spear]

what are they?

[opal raven]

trully the goat

[grim spear]

卧槽

[red zinc]

My beloved

[pliant wave]

Hey guys, I was thinking about the Outlaw buffs what do you think about making KS count as stealth while it's casting?

[toxic star]

@haughty wigeon any thoughts on my log above btw

[haughty wigeon]

It 4am and I’m on mobile

[red zinc]

for what purpose

[haughty wigeon]

I cannot help rn but I’m sure a smort outlaw player will be able to see it soon

[toxic star]

go catch some sleep then

[haughty wigeon]

Trying

Medication keeping me awake rn

Since I haven’t taken it in awhile

[shell fossil]

is killing spree being uncapped?

it's all targets while active right?