is there a way to see the current sim apl on raid bots? or no?
#outlaw
south glen
upbeat tundra
but why
south glen
or like the one thats used whenever i sim my character?
vivid vessel
is the weirdo still trying
upbeat tundra
gettin kinda weirda tt his point yea
south glen
nvm i found it
vivid vessel
It's been peaceful for me at least
upbeat tundra
hes getting more abrasive cause you arent giving him the attention he needs
vivid vessel
That's funny
hollow temple
vivid vessel
Are you subscribed
hollow temple
I’m good waiting for s3 
south glen
is there a wa to get hekili to not say to use like ar and stuff at the end of the pack like how you can make it hold cds for assass?
south glen
sounds good
vivid vessel
You keep ADR in stealth you know
So it doesn't matter at all
Maybe hold vanish? Nah not really either
south glen
i 100% forgot about that ngl
vivid vessel
Holding is usually worse than not
And hekillih won't be good enough at knowing when you should or shouldn't
Not for outlaw
But not holding ever is fine mostly
Can't really go wrong
snow hill
Hey guys, I heard our AoE is solid but our ST is bin-levels on PTR M+ & Raid.
So like, are we cooked and should go Frost DK or hold out hope?
strong flume
i make sure to send everything right before a forced RP that also somehow keeps me in combat and watch my cds tick down
vivid vessel
Hey guys, I heard our AoE is solid but our ST is bin-levels on PTR M+ & Raid.
S...
I think we will be fine
Because we will get buffed on st
cinder relic
Hey guys, I heard our AoE is solid but our ST is bin-levels on PTR M+ & Raid.
S...
If u are just chasing fotm based on PTR, yeah
snow hill
Sick
cinder relic
Go swap fdk, hunter, shadow, dev
upbeat tundra
dont think dev is that great
vivid vessel
Our st is mega poopy so it's quite obvious we will get buffed I think
Which will improve our m+ performance aswell
I think we will be just fine
I'm actually less worried than usual
I think being too good on ptr, or just good enough but not actually good on ptr is when you should be worried
If you are too good you get nerfed
upbeat tundra
st buff + ks channeling time lowered would go crazy
haughty wigeon
accurate
vestal notch
is zac reformed?
tropic zephyr
yes
haughty wigeon
the ret special
tropic zephyr
sandbag
covert kestrel
I'm actually less worried than usual
All it took for zac to reach nirvana was blocking Zeross 🙏🕊️
vivid vessel
If you are not in the will get buffed range you will not get buffed
tropic zephyr
sandbag calls lesgo
upbeat tundra
is zac reformed?
hes been a different man since he muted zeross
vivid vessel
Truth
snow hill
Honestly not chasing meta, my mains are Fury-Outlaw-Frost and I was considering going one of each - each patch.
But had to swap to Outlaw 1/2 through Nerub'ar coz Fury got roasted and stayed Outlaw. Had most fun as Outlaw ever but it's been pretty shit sitting hard mid all raid cycle.
wintry solar
I'd say that too
vivid vessel
sandbag calls lesgo
It's not
I think everyone saw how outlaw st was in raid or in dungeons
cinder relic
The last set of buffs were quite good
vivid vessel
Its not particularly like
cinder relic
The op specs are gonna get nerfed, shit specs will get buffed
vivid vessel
A wild take
cinder relic
Commit to a spec in weeks
vestal notch
even then after raid launches shit can change a lot
covert kestrel
Commit to outlaw forever
upbeat tundra
people just panic on picking a spec early because it dictates if they get to play the computer game or not
upbeat tundra
which is blizzard's dogshit systems
mighty pivot
not blizzard's fault people metaslave
upbeat tundra
not blizzard's fault people metaslave
yes it is
cinder relic
I'm ready for a chill sub tier anywya
I am told by the sub channel that sub is always bad
So idk
snow hill
Yeah k. Cuz I've been hella excited to play FB again after binning Underpin ?? The other night after like 5 attempts from 80+ as HO and just trying something different haha. Forgot how much I really like FB KS
cinder relic
Learn sin noob
vivid vessel
I am told by the sub channel that sub is always bad
Ye for sure
People been accidentally been playing sub every tier for years because it was the worse spec
And it's looking good again for the sub bros
snow hill
So idk
Spent the last two raid lockouts as Sub for a end of season break and I really like it. But God damn the pistol pew pew is life.....
vivid vessel
Just have to loot a trinket from HOA
upbeat tundra
not blizzard's fault people metaslave
if you could login, click a play button, join a que, and get to play the game the same as everyone else, by removing the ability for other people to choose whether you get to play the game or not, then it would change a LOT of things.
vivid vessel
if you could login, click a play button, join a que, and get to play the game th...
Soloq ye!
upbeat tundra
if i had to guess, other than personal responsibilites and stuff, lfg is the #1 reason people quit wow
upbeat tundra
every competitive game from the past 15 years has had a que system
except M+
even pvp has one now
glass mortar
99% of competative games r pvp tho
upbeat tundra
i mean truly m+ is one of the only games/game modes on earth that doesnt have a real functional system
glass mortar
its a bit different imo
mighty pivot
if you could login, click a play button, join a que, and get to play the game th...
ok but it's the people who decline you, not blizzard itself. That's my point. It is very frustrating to find a group but the reason it is like this is that players exaggerate the differences between specs
upbeat tundra
ok but it's the people who decline you, not blizzard itself. That's my point. It...
allowing people to decline you is the problem
glass mortar
especially since they have this new deserter thing
upbeat tundra
that power should never be given to others
glass mortar
this system alone applied to a queue system would incline people more to commit of others r commited
upbeat tundra
you should never be able to choose whether someone gets to play the game or not
vivid vessel
If league worked with a lfg system it would be the exact same as wow lol
upbeat tundra
If league worked with a lfg system it would be the exact same as wow lol
yea
vivid vessel
You would only be able to play meta specs
upbeat tundra
if you saw a non meta spec sign up to top lane you would never choose them
mighty pivot
I don't see how they could automate it and not grief certain groups. They'd have to create groups with decent synergy
upbeat tundra
it would be omega fucking cancer
vivid vessel
I don't see how they could automate it and not grief certain groups. They'd have...
Remove raid buffs, give every healer a list and a battle rez
upbeat tundra
I don't see how they could automate it and not grief certain groups. They'd have...
no it would work just like every other game. the best classes would rise to the top, the worst would stay towards the bottom
vivid dune
do i want to be mindful of cp waste when pressing ghostly strike or does it not matter
vivid vessel
And it's already halfway there
upbeat tundra
it would work itself out
glass mortar
if ur queuing to go higher u gotta be flexible but the ceiling for it would probably be lower then preamde keys
thorny zinc
I mean high key queue times would be like 4 hrs minimum no
vivid vessel
Why would it be longer than now
upbeat tundra
disable raid buffs in the que system also
mighty pivot
if ur queuing for 10s or 12s for ur vault
you don't but this isn't an issue just at 10-12 range
thorny zinc
well assuming it has a criteria for the queue you would have to be matched with people of similar 'skill' so it would be longer bc of that
glass mortar
u queue up a +10 in the first 2 months of a season
u got 50000 applicants
looking to fill vault
thorny zinc
every comp game on the planet has that problem though so idk
glass mortar
if u dont have something massively standout how tf r u ever getting an inv
vivid vessel
well assuming it has a criteria for the queue you would have to be matched with ...
But you already play with people with similar Skill via lfg, you invite people with your io
vestal notch
crazy thing is that of those 50000 people queing, half of them have that 10 but dont want to play theirs
upbeat tundra
But you already play with people with similar Skill via lfg, you invite people w...
most of the time you dont even get to play unless youre overqualified and playing a meta spec
royal helm
guys im haviung issue where when i vanish sometime it swap target or just untargets, is there a way to stop this so my target just stay the same?
thorny zinc
it would be interesting to see like something like faceit make a queued lfg and see how it performs
gaunt phoenix
are u using some vanish macro?
upbeat tundra
the people who prefer lfg in m+ are people who have been force fed dogshit from blizzard forever and cant conceive of any other taste other than dogshit and have acquired a taste for dogshit and reject anything but dogshit
gaunt phoenix
vanish doesnt unselect target naturally
vivid vessel
Are you using the cringe auto targetin thing
snow hill
Probably the least of Vanish's life problems tbh. Try doing Underpin HM and having RNG Satan reset the entire fight for no reason at <30% 💀
Computer nearly went in pool.
random stirrup
queueing in fellowship really makes you think
brez/lust not locked to any classes, no raid buffs
every class living in tuning harmony
upbeat tundra
i dont have a wow sub anymore and wont till they add solo que. im never sitting in dornogol getting declined again. wtb fellowship
latent oak
queueing in fellowship really makes you think
did u get into the new playtest?
novel socket
solo queue and banning all the boosted monkeys would make the game so much more healthier
covert kestrel
every class living in tuning harmony
the rpg andys on the forums/reddit/wowhead would have an aneurysm about class fantasy if this ever happened
novel socket
maybe when the game is ported to consoles they make a soloq because console population will implode from the declines
random stirrup
did u get into the new playtest?
no, but a couple friends did who briefly talked about it in such a way as to not violate their nda
latent oak
fuck i was gunna try get u to break ur nda
random stirrup
🤐
desert tendon
you wont ever break mine
event if grieftorch isnt a thing anymore
i m still on nda
midnight granite
Fellowship has it's own problems
latent oak
minesweeper
vivid vessel
world of warcraft
upbeat tundra
midnight granite
No, but anyone that thinks fellowship is going to influence wow is xoping
vivid vessel
hm
upbeat tundra
i dont care about wow i care about m+
vivid vessel
they reworked the aoes cause they were dogshit to see
they didnt do that for like 20 years
only now
when we have an example of a functionning syste mwith fellowship
random stirrup
it will influence wow for me when its mid-late season and i only have 3 homies looking to play dungeons
mighty pivot
i dont care about wow i care about m+
what does that even mean
midnight granite
If you think they fixed swirls because of fellowship idk what to tell you
novel socket
they didnt do that for like 20 years
my conspiracy theory for all of those sudden good changes that the community has been asking for decades is because of the console port
vivid vessel
If you think they fixed swirls because of fellowship idk what to tell you
i mean
vivid vessel
they didnt do it for 20 years
upbeat tundra
what does that even mean
i hate every mmo part of wow i just like m+
vivid vessel
just now
when people talk about an alternative
a contender
and highlights all the things it does better
than wow
idk
maybe its a coinscidence
midnight granite
100% coincidence
novel socket
everything is for the console port
latent oak
with how slow wows pipeline is i woudlnt be surprised if they had that shit planned for months and months
novel socket
surely
late swallow
i hate every mmo part of wow i just like m+
i thought you were a giga collector + pet battler guy
novel socket
lime lake
blizzard has a long and storied history of stealing from other mmos, the only way i see the same not happening with fellowship is if it just completely flops
lime lake
wdym really
lime lake
it 100% is a good thing
lime lake
dragonriding is like a 1 for 1 port of mounts in gw2
novel socket
ff14 also took a lot of things from wow
lime lake
same with the car and the rolly bugs in gw2
yeah successful ideas get taken and used
this is a good thing, and it'll be a good thing if it happens with fellowship
latent oak
its just m+
novel socket
but its not an mmo
novel socket
oh
vestal notch
if something works in a rival mmo and it would work in yours, you would be stupid not to copy it
late swallow
wow is the best mmo ever made easily
novel socket
latent oak
are they?
novel socket
wtf
vivid vessel
pvp no prolyl cause its a pve game
novel socket
time to play fellowship
latent oak
i thoguht they said they arent doing it rn
novel socket
latent oak
but maybe in future
vivid vessel
i thoguht they said they arent doing it rn
i mean
novel socket
that sounds like the best thing ever
vivid vessel
i didnt say when
novel socket
the non instanced content of wow
vivid vessel
just that they will be doing it
vivid vessel
its litteraly confirmed, their UI has a raid section lol
novel socket
latent oak
oh mb i guess
latent oak
thought it was 'we dont have current plans for raid'
vivid vessel
just make raids
they have current plans for raid
just not in the near future prolly
upbeat tundra
they can probably slam out a lot of content too because they dont have to build a world or zones and shit
vivid vessel
yep
vestal notch
i hope they do well enough that blizzard actively needs to get their shit together
upbeat tundra
@vivid vessel another thing they added i think prob cause fellowship is that new waystone system
upbeat tundra
and the leaver system, a lot of things kinda point to them making a solo que
vivid vessel
im sorryu buit liek
upbeat tundra
and just adding piece by piece befopre they implement the que part
red zinc
Im still a fellowship doubter till i see them put out one cohesive class
red zinc
Felt turbo clunk
vivid vessel
for 20 years
red zinc
Both playtests
upbeat tundra
half the classes in wow are cohesive classes that you get to only play on the target dummies in dornogol
red zinc
Release devoker was more fun than anything ive played on that game
And that was the most boring spec modern wow has had
vivid vessel
how is it fun then
latent oak
that's his point
red zinc
no classes on fellowship are fun
upbeat tundra
i thought the classes were fun idk
red zinc
Everything around that game looks promising
vivid vessel
ye no i agree
red zinc
just not the actual classes
latent oak
meiko was fun at the start but got very scripted/old quickly
vivid vessel
even the meiko monk
is boring
and its the only one that isnt boring
and its boring
red zinc
They should really do some sort of proof of design capabilities man
Make one of the classes as fleshed out as they’ll all be eventually instead of dripping the talents out
midnight granite
There are so many games they might have taken influence from, I just don't think fellowship was one of them
upbeat tundra
my copium is they are adding the new leaver system and waypoint system because of an upcoming que system
mighty pivot
reddit ad 
red zinc
some 2 man dev team
red zinc
all thats to say
vivid vessel
whats the game
red zinc
whats the game
dont remember ill look in steam library tomorrow
mighty pivot
ion counts for 150
vivid vessel
the class team is still like
20 people
you can check in the credits
let me find it again
red zinc
i mean I wasnt talking about the class team though
Those goobers made the whole game as 2 people
mighty pivot
ok but it doesn't scale linearly
torpid fiber
tbf 200 would be worse than 20 for class team
latent oak
ya
red zinc
Of course it doesnt
torpid fiber
I think realistically 20-30 is the sweet spot
latent oak
for design at least
torpid fiber
But yeah
red zinc
Its not some numbers issue
latent oak
i think with fellowship having very simple/basic classes is a design goal idk
mighty pivot
you can't tell me whether I will overthink it or not 
vivid vessel
they have 15 combat designers
that work on class etc
and 4 leads
so ye
a 20 guys team
midnight granite
Sorry but fellowship classes are all very basic and nothing that would replace outlaw gameplay
upbeat tundra
unfortunately whenever i login to outlaw i can do its super cool and fun rotation only on the target dummies in dornogol
midnight granite
They have good ideas for dungeon mechanics, but class design gonna need a lot of work
novel socket
they just need more time
random stirrup
They have good ideas for dungeon mechanics, but class design gonna need a lot of...
it's a bit more complex now but ya
still pretty simplistic compared to wow
high doubts anything close to outlaw will be in the final product (at least at launch)
midnight granite
It's not
wintry solar
Sick rebuttal
south glen
do we still just play trickster next season?
south glen
will there be any weapon swapping bs next season so far like there is rn?
glass steeple
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
gaunt phoenix
probably not
vivid vessel
as far as i know there isnt any special weapon this tier
mighty pivot
not with the current cudgel at least and there is no similar proc weapon at all
we will soon be free
wintry solar
We don't know what effect the event weapons will have
vivid vessel
what event
wintry solar
Mid season catch up events
latent oak
there will inevitably be a .5 patch that adds some stuff
south glen
why no one want a rogue in their keys 
civic zephyr
cause you dont have slappy hands, lust, or beam
mighty pivot
they also smell
spring vessel
cause you dont have slappy hands, lust, or beam
in a month, nobody will have slappy hands. rogues one step closer to being accepted by the community at large!
midnight granite
Also 8% phys buff
red zinc
mfs going to spend the whole patch looking for the next cudgel
tender wedge
Also 8% phys buff
Pray for brewmaster meta
torpid fiber
there's one stupid item every few patches so we're probably not due for another one until midnight
tender wedge
But no sigils so big doubt
chilly atlas
wont veng just be meta cuz mage boomkin? :p
opaque flume
is 70% ar uptime bad for theater
gaunt phoenix
yeah seems low
opaque flume
also what should i be dropping to take shiv for bloodhorn? shadowrunner?
gaunt phoenix
No you can drop the cheap shot energy thing
or the cc thing in the very middle
idk what utility talents you have currently taken
past falcon
what abt the talent that increases the effects of ur non damaging poisons by 20%
on the left
gaunt phoenix
that buffs your poisons it's better than energy cost on cheap shot
opaque flume
idk what utility talents you have currently taken
gaunt phoenix
opaque flume
thx
gaunt phoenix
if not then you have one of these and they both are whatever
the leech one is bugged i think
gaunt phoenix
nice
gaunt phoenix
lmao
glass mortar
massive healy
gaunt phoenix
what if you had a ton of leech on one hit
glass mortar
me when a talent lets my bte heal me for 50% leech (1m hp) once per vanish
its kinda wild how bad it was. i swear i thought it was a placeholder talent when they first removed that one but now its just part of the tree i guess
it would be bad if it worked properly
torpid fiber
you just know it'd somehow bug out and heal you from the crackshot dispatch instead of the bte
glass mortar
and it doesnt even work xd
torpid fiber
if it worked properly what number would it have to be at to be good
it's gotta be in the realm of like 10%, right?
maybe 5% idk actually how valuable leech is because it depends on numbers I never look at
fathom bramble
considering how often we are in subterfuge and where it is in the tree I think the current number would be fine
if it just actually worked
to make it actually a good and noticeable source of healing it would probably have to be 8-15%
and then it's among the strongest talents in that part of the tree
jolly rune
Hey, I was looking at the snd bug, what makes it not consume the last combo point?
wintry solar
Ruthlessness
gaunt phoenix
im not sure what you mean
what is "the last combo point"
the bug is you press snd at 1cp but it really treated as 4cp because of supercharger
over and over and over
jolly rune
oh
dim parrot
Also 8% phys buff
Just means no inv without monk in group 😎
jolly rune
do i have to be at 1 sack of supercharger?
gaunt phoenix
1 stack or 0 stack
you have to activate supercharger and then consume it once normally
and then snd will bug out until your next damaging finisher
jolly rune
That makes sense, i thought it was just used for CDR. Now i get why people do it at the start of a key
dim parrot
Aug spriest mage would be a cool comp tbh
lime lake
nah that could never work
dim parrot
Bad cook mb
quaint mauve
Aug spriest mage would be a cool comp tbh
ehhhh put a dk in there over spriest maybe
sudden fulcrum
dk gets nerfed fasho
proven ocean
classic wow isn't even wow 
sudden fulcrum
they are top on almost every fight on PTR
proven ocean
dk gets nerfed fasho
grass is green
proven ocean
idk i barely see real wow players playing osrs so far
only ones i know of are in https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1310994344680882196
and me
legit every "wow" player i saw so far is a classic player originally
because classic sucks balls 
they all realized how bad classic gets and how boring it becomes
dim parrot
Walking simulator
quaint mauve
dk gets nerfed fasho
frost seems insanely broken rn
saw one do like 10 mill ST whole time to hoa boss 1
with aug tho
dim parrot
dk gets nerfed fasho
There’s like 7-8 overturned dps specs right now
proven ocean
i dont think any real retail gamer swapped to osrs honestly
quaint mauve
mage is main character
that’s a given
proven ocean
im just playing it because i usually play it every few years
quaint mauve
whole dev team plays mage
proven ocean
whole dev team plays mage
true
quaint mauve
dude idk why i’m not getting invites to keys
proven ocean
no offense to any of them
dim parrot
Gonna play 2 rogues next season see if that keeps me around longer
quaint mauve
so what i’m still 660 ilvl
proven ocean
like
quaint mauve
i pump man 😕
proven ocean
i was watching gnome's stream, one of the best osrs players
he was like
asking what do wow players think of osrs raids
dim parrot
Classic players are 99% twitch viewers trying to get in their fav streamers vod
proven ocean
brother they dont even raid
like
classic is easier than the easiest osrs quests
its a fucking joke
u cant even half compare
like look
so far
playting osrs
all osrs raids are way less mechanically intensive
like
u have almost nothing going on
quaint mauve
classic is all just sitting there and pressing one button until the boss dies
proven ocean
just 1 mechanic every minute or someshit
quaint mauve
unironically
proven ocean
its so easy
dim parrot
lol
proven ocean
still
classic is 10000 times easier
classic raids aren't even raids tbh
just a target dummy
dim parrot
Yeh just a gear check
proven ocean
but
in osrs
the challenges they have
they're like
as hard as prime mage tower in legion
like
week 1 mage tower kind of difficulty
dim parrot
Is there leaderboards
proven ocean
uhh
yeah
but
once u get used to them they become easy
but thats the same to mage tower anyway
mage tower wasn't insanely difficult but maybe because i play wow 24/7
dim parrot
Do they ever rotate or change
proven ocean
no kaseo in osrs the raids and challenges are all relevant at all times
thats whats good about the game
all old content is relevant
like
u wont run firelands on retail because all gear is old and bad
but
in osrs
old raids actually drop bis items
depending on what content u do
and each item is good for specific levels etc if new things come out which is cool
proven ocean
ya
dim parrot
and still be progressed when u come back
proven ocean
ye
all the gear u get
u can sell them for the same price after 3-5 years
but thats not entirely true ^ because
theres like
the game is like a stock market on items
like
jastor diamond lets give htat as an example
can be worth 2.5m gold
after 3 years maybe 2.8m gold
or 2.2m
maybe even 50m
because u can use it on many other places where its bis
so ye
its like a real life stock market on items
things can spark up and become insanely op
because new content u can use that specific item and destroy it giga hard
dim parrot
I have fun with that until I’m all bis
Is there content worth doing if you’re decked out
proven ocean
I have fun with that until I’m all bis
except
take a moment to realize that being full bis means u beat every single hard content in osrs
dim parrot
Mm
proven ocean
so ye u cant just come in and be bis in 4 months
u need to prog play and level up and stuff
many things
anyways neough yapping i gotta lvl up xdd
quaint mauve
all old content is relevant
that’s kinda what i like abt classic and like tbc
DST was good like all of tbc
stuff like that is cool to me
neat mason
Hello, just getting back into outlaw rogue since mop! Been reading the wowhead guide and what not. What posions do we use?
dim parrot
It’s great but you feel way behind if you don’t have it
quaint mauve
Hello, just getting back into outlaw rogue since mop! Been reading the wowhead g...
instant atrophic
RIGHT?
dim parrot
Retail you can outplay someone with bis gear and destroy their contribution to the group
neat mason
am I doing somthing wrong if I only see crippling, wound, and instant?
dim parrot
!guides
ornate heathBOT
Outlaw Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/outlaw-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/outlaw-rogue
quaint mauve
It’s great but you feel way behind if you don’t have it
i agree that the current game is better for preserving new player base and better for new players
dim parrot
It’s in your class talent tree
quaint mauve
am I doing somthing wrong if I only see crippling, wound, and instant?
make sure your talents are correct :p
dim parrot
Choice node between atrophic and mind-numbing
dim parrot
I’d prioritize wowhead or icyveins for talents and guides
quaint mauve
i have a love hate relationship with murlok
neat mason
yeah I had them wrong haha
quaint mauve
i ended up playing crit mastery vdh for a while bc of it
bc the person i copied played havoc for raid
neat mason
Sometimes wowhead is confusing with tons of different build options
upper surge
quaint mauve
living up to his name
dim parrot
Nice part is they usually have an explanation behind the talent tree choice so you can have one for raid and one for m+ or w.e
neat mason
Makes sense, i'll look that over
mainly looking at the rotation part of wowhead atm
not even 80 yet
dim parrot
Or you can ask in here what build is good for the content you wanna do
neat mason
haven't played rogue since it was combat haha
I saw you dont have to press slice and dice anymore, thats nice
neat mason
sounds good. Yeah I try not to ask obvious questions, just couldn't find a poison section on wowhead
proven ocean
lime lake
torpid fiber
yeah this is why i have zeross ignored, i want to be able to see the chat
dim thorn
Sup guys, just grinding on my outlaw lately and i was wondering which item to get with the dinars ?
quaint mauve
Sup guys, just grinding on my outlaw lately and i was wondering which item to ge...
mugzee wep
dim thorn
Knuckles ?
quaint mauve
ye
lone spear
stats prio are versa / haste around 18% and then what ?
for keep it rolling builds, 18-20% haste, then stack vers and crit
avoid mastery
lone spear
hardest out of 2 xdd
dim thorn
hardest mean fun
haughty wigeon
then slowly work up to kir
unless you wanna go balls deep into it off the bat
then go ahea
lone spear
if hard = fun, then yea play KiR
dim thorn
i already am too deep xD
lone spear
but the difficulty difference is overblown imo
there are like, 2 extra rules you should really follow
then outside of that the rest are very small optimizations
dim thorn
aight
lone spear
yea for sure if you are overwhelmed, dont be afraid to go HO
lone spear
play whatever you find fun, and you will automatically do better on it 👍
lone spear
How do you feel about s3 ?
im cheering, but many are doomin
then again im one of the few people that think having KS as a big damage, longer channel ability is a good thing
dim thorn
What is odd about ks is the fact that sometime you have to wait bosses or mobs to finish stuff to actually use it otherwise you die
lone spear
thankfully its changed in s3, its like reaper ult from OW
can now move around and even grapple during it
dim thorn
gtk
lone spear
fatebound is also great (might also run KS as well based on my testing)
the tier set for it makes the spec feel so fluid
dim thorn
Because at base i main war but i m looking for a change cause i m bored lol
Do you think they change effect of tier sets in ptr once the bases are released ?
because there is a lot of classes where there 2p or 4p effect are like garbage
sudden fulcrum
i think they'll likely tune them but change them completely? doubt that
dim thorn
Yeah that's what i thought
haughty wigeon
because there is a lot of classes where there 2p or 4p effect are like garbage
unlikely
dim thorn
hopefully everything goes fine for rogue lol
haughty wigeon
outlaw gets to cast its hero ability again for free
but me noooo
i have to build 5 hopo again to cast it again
dim thorn
you dont have cds
dim thorn
yeah yeah but i m a main war arms so
dim thorn
i have rights
haughty wigeon
seraphirm come back pls
dim thorn
haughty wigeon
fr es serap dt wake wing burst cd combo
wintry solar
The right to stop playing play the game I play
haughty wigeon
comeb ack to meee
dim thorn
yeah sera removal is kinda fucked
haughty wigeon
they replaced it
haughty wigeon
but the constancy of ret dps is
having a 30 second profile would do that i guess
dim thorn
Yeah i know
haughty wigeon
and now the only "skill ceiling" we had
is removed
next patch
cool blizzard ty
dim thorn
the only downside is now you dont see differences betwin good rets and bad rets
dim thorn
if they are terrible yeah
haughty wigeon
ty blizzard
dim thorn
or not lvl 80
haughty wigeon
people will swear up and down its agood skill ceiling
even tho most of our utility is "look at boss/mob timer, use approprate utility"
wow hard
dim thorn
yeah xd
speaking of paladin, i have one in front of me his name is " idiot "
i think he understood xD
haughty wigeon
fitting
dim thorn
anyway thanks for tips guys
frail veldt
speaking of paladin, i have one in front of me his name is " idiot "
Ret was never short for retribution 😉
frail veldt
people will swear up and down its agood skill ceiling
people say this?
lime lake
probably coping rets
frail veldt
I thought everyone kinda thinks of ret as the baby mode intro spec
haughty wigeon
people say this?
Yes
Blizzard says this
People who hate says this
Shit ret players say this but for offhealing for some reason
torpid fiber
So many redditors say it
I think to some extent it's just people who never before really reached a level of comfort with their spec/ui to be able to actively consider their util usage
haughty wigeon
It’s silly
torpid fiber
Honestly I am somewhat surprised that so many people love ret but it is how it is
torpid fiber
Yeah, and it's a popular aesthetic
torpid fiber
I only take issue with ret players when they get on reddit and start saying every spec should be like ret (this happens a lot)
lone spear
are people saying every spec should be like rogue?
cause that would kill the game real fast looking at player data xdd
if anything i think rogue has a problem of legacy players not wanting more change because "this is rogue, if you dont like it pick something else" which is so hand-wavey of actual problems with the class design
haughty wigeon
are people saying every spec should be like rogue?
no
every spec should be like ret
but like i see it more on rogue forums than any other spec tbh
grim spear
if anything i think rogue has a problem of legacy players not wanting more chang...
the actual problem is that wow has way too many specs
designers are running of out ideas
The game's resource and buff system simply can't support 39 specs that are all unique, engaging, and easy to understand.
lone spear
yea, i dont envy their position
and playing mop classic, the homogenization is giga apparent
but at the same time, making something fun is more important than aribtrary constraints of "uniqueness"
if they cant distinguish them as much by gameplay, then they should lean heavier into thematic of class/spec
aka, make outlaw an actual pirate cowards 
torpid fiber
I feel like outlaw gameplay is fairly unique no?
lone spear
yea, but its also unpopular and many see it as not worth the effort
now thats a whole other debate of whether harder specs/talents should always do more damage
i think if assass wasnt easy to play, this class would be so doomed for bringing in new players
grim spear
and playing mop classic, the homogenization is giga apparent
Because the gameplay is very homogenized
torpid fiber
My stance continues to be that harder specs should have stronger non-dps toolkits but not more dps than easier specs
grim spear
you press a button every GCD, handle mechanics while trying to kill the boss, and compare damage with your teammates.
There’s nothing particularly special you can do; everyone has very little freedom.
lone spear
you press a button every GCD, handle mechanics while trying to kill the boss, an...
yea but even rotations, everyone has like a dot you keep up once every 20ish seconds, a maintenance buff you keep up every 30ish seconds, and a builder spender playstyle
at least of the 10ish specs i tried
grim spear
To avoid homogenization, you need to have different roles
lime lake
homogenize deez
grim spear
for now there's only ranged, melee, tank, and healer. And when you try to squeeze 39 specs into these limited roles, doing the same tasks in different ways
basically just boils down to casting different-colored fireballs using differently named resources.
lone spear
they probs thought about that with support specs
but aug was so crazy that i think theyre scared
grim spear
Not to mention some classes are forced to split into multiple specs that fill the exact same role.
Designers rack their brains to make them feel different, but in the end players just pick the strongest one
haughty wigeon
support role when?
and like
4more support specs?
disc
another paladin spec
something with hunter
grim spear
remove some specs
intro new roles
because these “specs” even share the same gear appearance. At their core, they’re just different talent builds.
mage, lock, rogue
outlaw at least have a different weapon type
balmy topaz
POG
jagged ivy
Designers rack their brains to make them feel different, but in the end players ...
i mean, thats not true really?
there are multiple specs that have big playernumbers even when they are tuned really bad lol
sonic talon
ehhh, id argue that the easiest classes have the most players, with a few exceptions because of fotm
look at ret pallies and havoc dh
lime lake
havocs been a relatively mid tier difficulty spec since df
and assa is piss easy but has low playerbase
bm and ret also happen to have very strong class fantasies and are very visually appealing
jagged ivy
and assa is piss easy but has low playerbase
rn probs the biggest one for rogue
and during BfA and im kinda sure SL aswell it was Outlaw 
sonic talon
even in legion assa was nice
lime lake
so while im absolutely sure them being easy is a big draw to players, i wouldnt say its a rule that the easiest classes have the most players
sonic talon
bfa idk i didnt play that (doesnt exist for me)
jagged ivy
so while im absolutely sure them being easy is a big draw to players, i wouldnt ...
like, for rogue its mostly
Sub is kinda a Design mess for like 8years now, so most people dont like to play it really
and Outlaw kinda lost popularity in DF with its "new" gameplay it got there
assa is kinda the same for a long time now and overall feels like the spec that has a plan behind it instead of outlaw/subs "yeha we throw some stuff togheter and see what sticks" approach they have for a while now
sonic talon
like, for rogue its mostly
Sub is kinda a Design mess for like 8years now, so m...
yea, im not touching sub, id rather play havoc ngl
old reef
●▅▇█▇▆▅▄▇
i shall lay down until blizz buff outlaw!!!!
quiet ore
Surely they'll let you place them over the mantle
balmy topaz
You'd think!
sonic talon
i am hoping for a sub and outlaw rework in the next expansion tbh, but i dont think that will happen sadly
1 week and half for the midnight reveal stuff no?
balmy topaz
We don't need a rework
sonic talon
¯_(ツ)_/¯
balmy topaz
There are changes that need to be made but not enough to call it a rework
sonic talon
idk, even tho rogue is been my main forever, i dont feel like its getting love compared to other classes, againt this is subjective and is just my opinion
rogue for me was peak in legion, i had a lot of fun playing it, bfa didnt play, shadowlands i didnt like rogue so i played a balance druid, df was okay, better than shadowlands
balmy topaz
It is lacking love 100% we've not really had any changes this expansion
sonic talon
and the hero talents i was expecting something more ngl
sonic talon
true
opaque flume
rogue for me was peak in legion, i had a lot of fun playing it, bfa didnt play, ...
it was fun in SL imo
sub was good early, and law was rly fun with double lego in s4 as venthyr*
sonic talon
yea but druid convoke tho, jk, idk i didnt like how rogue felt in SL
lone spear
idk, even tho rogue is been my main forever, i dont feel like its getting love c...
this is the thing, i know that by number of changes or w/e actual metric, rogue hasnt been treated than poorly compared to the rest of the classes
but that doesnt change the feeling we, and even people who dont play rogue, have that we really are just shafted on changes
the mini-rework was shiny and new when it happened, but tbh we have like the worst class tree, and our gameplay has stagnated
sonic talon
the changes that we get are not 'game breaking' for lack of a better word, its omg 4% more dmg here 3% more dmg here, etc
shell fossil
i hope they give subtlety more ranged play like outlaw, crossbow sounds fun
sonic talon
KS is the only 'big' change outlaw got in a while
shell fossil
also free blinks would be cool, no targeting an enemy
sonic talon
and imo they missed the spot with the new KS, or rather i had hoped that the shots would penetrate so you would have to positions yourself better, but it seems like that doesnt matter
shell fossil
i think they don't want to do another stand in your creep and do stuff class like pal/dk though
balmy topaz
I mean it's more the listening that is the issue
We are asking for KS to have less of a duration
Not because of dmg or anything
But gameplay wise it doesn't suit current outlaw
sonic talon
you are a gunslinger now , not a pirate anymore
balmy topaz
Ngl tho
sonic talon
jk
balmy topaz
I real;ly liked gunslijnger in LA
lone spear
same
shell fossil
scoundrel in swtor was fun in vanilla, it's a good aesthetic
sonic talon
never played swtor, no idea
fluid iron
I real;ly liked gunslijnger in LA
the days of peacemaker engraving is over, embrace the Time to Hunt supremacy
sonic talon
is LA even alive?
fluid iron
considering i was playing last night, then id have to say yes
shell fossil
it was kind of like combat rogue i guess? also bliz definitely has trouble listening to themselves. was doing transmog stuff in shadowlands and the best part was with draka being like yee haw orc in maldraxxus
everything else is like..they don't even want to go near the edge of esrb rating guidelines
balmy topaz
the days of peacemaker engraving is over, embrace the Time to Hunt supremacy
Ohh god really
balmy topaz
Ooo
balmy topaz
Ye that's cool ngl
sonic talon
lmao, id miss it
sonic talon
if its not aimed like a fps game, ill prolly miss it
balmy topaz
Hmm
lone spear
by the nature of the encounters for sure
sonic talon
what about m+
balmy topaz
Ye this raid seems to benefit burst specs
lone spear
my cope is they'll see us be dogshit in raid early cause of dam profile, give us massive aura buff, then we run m+
balmy topaz
I am in a chill 2 day guild this season so
fluid iron
dont think outlaw needs any buffs to be strong in m+
balmy topaz
I think i'll just outlaw it
fluid iron
maybe a targeted single target buff
balmy topaz
Have you seen our ST
fluid iron
but thats about it
fluid iron
the AoE dmg seems quite good tho
lone spear
they would need to buff like
GS
or nerf BF while buffing us
because our st is our aoe
fluid iron
yeah lol XD
balmy topaz
Idk why they did that dk buff
But I think they will end up aura buffing us
and over compensate
then we will get BF nerf
lone spear
we've had a rough expansion in general in terms of ST damage
(when we arent bugged xdd)
fluid iron
Idk why they did that dk buff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=solCdpWTxtY&ab_channel=율향
the idea is to get 20 stacks of quickscope to fire off the persona skill for an insane 1 shot dmg
balmy topaz
It was okay in season 1
balmy topaz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=solCdpWTxtY&ab_channel=%EC%9C%A8%ED%96%A5
the id...
That damage
fluid iron
in raid this guy has that ability hit for 10bil
balmy topaz
That is nuts
fluid iron
think its the third hardest hit in the game
balmy topaz
Is that harder than that Ultimate ability from that martial art class
balmy topaz
Think so
fluid iron
yeh this is harder
its Supernova from destroyer and Final step from reaper
that hits harder
balmy topaz
How is the game atm
fluid iron
raid fun, balance shit
balmy topaz
RIP
fluid iron
and the diff between whales and non whales is astronomically big atm
balmy topaz
It's nuts they allow that
I guess it technically is F2P and they need to make their money but still
balmy topaz
Ye that;s a bit wild
lyric steeple
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
- Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
- Zac's Group Devlin
Utilities: - Combo Point Standalone
- Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
- Ace refund sound trigger
- RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
- Unseen Blade tracker
Fun: - Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
- KS Ticking damage taken
fervent scroll
I wish ks would do the same dam as eye beam. Cancelling it to do more dam is not fun 😭
balmy topaz
The community has comne up with very simple solutions and not sure why they don;t just implement them
green wing
what does he mean with special people???
gaunt phoenix
zoomers
fresh frost
balmy topaz
remote pecan
what does he mean with special people??? <:Pepegrin:1375228958282612797>
he meant the assa channel obviously outlaw was a typo
green wing
he meant the assa channel obviously outlaw was a typo
that makes sense
balmy topaz
I could put good money he plays sub
torpid fiber
what does he mean with special people??? <:Pepegrin:1375228958282612797>
zeross
green wing
my first thought was the weird dude who argued with zac, was homophobic and had some strange builds. cant remeber his name 🤔
reef ruin
what does he mean with special people??? <:Pepegrin:1375228958282612797>
EU > all tbh
leaden folio
gaunt phoenix
vivid vessel
how much crests you get from a 12
red zinc
20
vivid vessel
the AoE dmg seems quite good tho
its quite a bit lower than on live tho
and you can say anything you want, no one plays outlaw on live
vivid vessel
if anything i find it surtprising the existing rogue players keeps playing assa
among the top 10 rogues the only outlaw are me and wox
even tho outlaw is outalw right
isnt it stronger ?
prisma vessel
skill based i guess.
vivid vessel
i doubt these players arent capable of playing outlaw lol
reef ruin
I'm not giga skilled, 3k andy but I find outlaw and assa both fun to use in m+ right now
desert tendon
outlaw is just not played
reef ruin
but in raid assa feels meh
edgy phoenix
isnt it stronger ?
prolly ks issue
vivid vessel
you know what i dont like about current season
it used to be that outlaw was looked at in a normal environnement in normal comps
outlaw damage
now people think the new norm is having full raid buff
If I play outlaw in a normal comp, like we did in S3 df, I wouldn't be doing as much damage as S3 outlaw
balmy topaz
Ye we have to have raid buffs to be useful
And the fact that mystic touch got buffed were only going to get tuned around it
prisma vessel
ohhhhh
prisma vessel
thats kinda tilting ngl.
balmy topaz
It was just a bonus
prisma vessel
like base outlaw is bad w/o buffs is whats the convo is about?
edgy phoenix
no but mystic touch buff is so random
prisma vessel
isn't it up 100% of the time?