But then no monk 3% buff on it 😭
#outlaw
copper radish
gaunt phoenix
and rename it to fatebound coin (tails)
copper radish
The aoe from fatebound tails should just be buffed so it has equal aoe damage to trickster. Ez fix then everyone plays fate
wintry solar
I want to choose
vivid vessel
mighty pivot
choose life
wintry solar
Fb always should be behind trickster in keys
copper radish
Who am I kidding prob playing trickster for the third straight season thru n thru lol
copper radish
They should just un cap the targets on that
wintry solar
mighty pivot
make fate intertwined spawn a Fate Beast which accumulates stacks as it attacks and then it explodes for cosmic damage. Just some original idea...
vestal notch
If the stack the beast gets is the opposite of your coin you lose the buff
copper radish
While they are at it they can just uncap blade flurry too
vivid vessel
They should just un cap the targets on that
It's not about uncapping it even, you just lose massive prio whenever you have AOE
mighty pivot
if you flip 10 times the same side of the coin your BF uncaps
glass mortar
making it so fatebound lost prio anytime theres targets around went hard af
definitly not the opposite of what outlaws always been about
copper radish
They should give me a crisp 5 dollar bill
$2 bill it’s worth more
vivid vessel
taht and this thing
so like
fatebound st might look high
but add a few targets and its gg
copper radish
Yeah I didn’t realize you lost ST damage with aoe pulls for fate. That’s kinda asss
glass mortar
fatebound has negative funnel
glass mortar
even for kir with deft u lost like 3-4% ST dps anytime adds r coming in around the boss
latent oak
how much st damage loss it it
vivid vessel
and outlaw is the prio spec mind you
glass mortar
for HO its more
vivid vessel
its like
red zinc
I dont get why it isnt just duplicate dispatch damage on your main target and 2 nearby targets
glass mortar
that was s1 when i simmed tbh
vivid vessel
the prio spec
glass mortar
idk now a day
vivid vessel
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
copper radish
It’s like they are dinging fate for aoe when it’s what 15% behind trickster lol. Shit should be buffed if we in aoe
red zinc
would that be that op
lmao
fate intertwined could be up to 7 enemies and still fatebound is behind probably so
Idk
copper radish
fate intertwined could be up to 7 enemies and still fatebound is behind probably...
Prob still 10% behind 😂
vivid vessel
Fatebound isn't really behind on ptr
Which is the whole issue
Lol
Like you have to play this trash damage profile
copper radish
Will there ever be a day again where outlaw doesn’t need to vanish for DPS or are we cooked
covert kestrel
Will there ever be a day again where outlaw doesn’t need to vanish for DPS or ar...
like obvs can suck in solo content but vanish being a way to extend adr is fun in almost all other cases. the problem is forced downtime where you cant vanish being added in like every raid.
covert kestrel
stuff like vanishing before the boxes in kujo so you can stay stealth for the hiding phase and changing your rotation around that is nifty to me
wintry solar
While I agree, you dont ever want something different?
hybrid crown
I like the crackshot outlaw gameplay
vivid vessel
i have deft
wintry solar
Fb broken
hybrid crown
Since DF season 3 outlaw has been a blast
wintry solar
Broken in a bad way
copper radish
Since DF season 3 outlaw has been a blast
Give me outlaw DF S1 before the FTH nerf lol
covert kestrel
While I agree, you dont ever want something different?
if i want something different theres like 20 other specs to try
vivid vessel
ok 💀
700k loss
if you ignore deft "funnel"
no way i did that right
fatebound is so ass 💀
wintry solar
if i want something different theres like 20 other specs to try
That's not the same thing but okay
trail plinth
Fury warrior is a different outlaw you can play
wintry solar
That's not outlaw
trail plinth
Eh it’s pretty close. High apm dual wielding melee
trail plinth
You want rtb? Dont you ever want something different?
wintry solar
Rolling rolling
trail plinth
If there’s one thing I’ve learned playing this game: our wants will never be taken into consideration by blizz
lone spear
thats legit proven false constantly
shut lichen
Define 'our'
gaunt phoenix
ppl dont know what they want
mighty pivot
we = the hivemind
shut lichen
ppl dont know what they want
Damn true
gaunt phoenix
or rather there are 68000 opinions on stuff
lone spear
^more accurate
gaunt phoenix
and blizz has to pick one
covert kestrel
i only want what zac wants cause he's my moral compass
gaunt phoenix
ye
vestal notch
Cant please everyone
wintry solar
💀
mighty pivot
they should put up a vote 
shut lichen
Lol
vivid vessel
Even that mafic forum guy agrees with channel duration
shut lichen
Lmao even
lone spear
u think voting makes people happy?
trail plinth
Oh yeah they did for mythic plus dungeons. I take my statement back
lone spear
look at osrs lmao
vivid vessel
Ok guys
Look
I swear if I could have outlaw for a week it would be better
No cap
shut lichen
People will vote for something shit just to watch it burn
vivid vessel
Give me outlaw
gaunt phoenix
even some ppl want the old killing spree back
mighty pivot
Even that mafic forum guy agrees with channel duration
he makes 50 posts a day, some things are bound to make sense by chance
wintry solar
Broken clock is right twice a day
vivid vessel
except this popo guyh
shut lichen
Give me outlaw
vivid vessel
real
mighty pivot
if zac had outlaw design privileges we'd have world peace
shut lichen
Puts the L in Outlaw
Fax, no email
gaunt phoenix
he wants to remove crackshot and play outlaw with nothing
vivid vessel
I would pay so much money to be able to fix outlaw myself ..
I wouldn't even make it op I swear
wintry solar
That sounds like Zac
shut lichen
Fix in what sense?
mighty pivot
email metzen zac
copper radish
if zac had outlaw design privileges we'd have world peace
How much we gotta pay him
trail plinth
Is that just like a different combat rogue?
mighty pivot
ass guns when?
lone spear
they should fully commit to the devil may cry bit and give us a grade system
trail plinth
A bunch of spenders that start with “between the…” that do bonus damage when facing different sized enemies
shut lichen
Sorry guys I won't be able to do damage cause I'm still B rank and not S
mighty pivot
between the spidery buttcheeks
wintry solar
Idk if yall played dastardly duos
gaunt phoenix
the who
copper radish
ass guns when?
Assblasters
lone spear
the what
copper radish
Idk if yall played dastardly duos
??
shut lichen
Double D event
wintry solar
But, there's a helicopter you can pilot and we should reskin that to a pirate ship
And give it to outlaw
trail plinth
Remember when wotlk box promised aerial combat?
balmy topaz
What the helly
lone spear
gimmie a ship, some powder kegs, and some grog
shut lichen
I live to be a swashbuckler
covert kestrel
Idk if yall played dastardly duos
youre the first person in game or out ive heard that actually did that content
wintry solar
The helicopter is the only fun thing about dastardly duos
shut lichen
What the helly
Have u been afk a while?
wintry solar
youre the first person in game or out ive heard that actually did that content
I did it twice
shut lichen
Or have i been MIA that long
balmy topaz
Naa i've just come back after a few months
wintry solar
There won't be a 3rd time
vivid vessel
Fix in what sense?
- Ks cast duration is fixed to 2 GCD length, generate full cp during the channel
- ks auto consume it's ub sacks for es
- es stacks to 8 max
- outlaw max energy buffed to 300
- outlaw energy regeneration buffed by 6000%
- CTO chance of proc increase to lower rng a bit
- fth proc chance back to like 40/45% decrease rng again
- make vanish gives ADR for the duration, while still stopping it ( imo easiest fix for the downtime thing without removing uuh and shit)
- soft cap bf no capo
- ks hit your main target
- unbork ks animation
- delete fatebound
- remove fazed
- remove gs
- move pc up a row wherever idc
- make it so baseline of buff is increased by 1 to decrease rng of low rolls 2/3/5
- delete ho cringe spec no cap
- delete assa
- delete riposte
covert kestrel
- Ks cast duration is fixed to 2 GCD length, generate full cp during the channel...
- delete ass
vivid vessel
No
wintry solar
6000% percent?
vivid vessel
Ye
copper radish
gimmie a ship, some powder kegs, and some grog
Cannonball barrage but you pull out that dreadnaught mount and light people up from it
vivid vessel
I have had enough of energy
shut lichen
- Ks cast duration is fixed to 2 GCD length, generate full cp during the channel...
Half of these are just KS fixes
vivid vessel
Remove energy for outlaw for all I care
I don't care anymore
I don't wanna suffer anymore
keen belfry
Had a dream we got no patch notes again. Is that true?
vivid vessel
Ye
shut lichen
The dream ?
vivid vessel
Half of these are just KS fixes
Ye I don't think outlaw needs much so
shut lichen
Or reality?
lone spear
most those changes are fine
lone spear
except deleting HO
vivid vessel
Most these changes are also legit 5 min job
lone spear
unless u replace it with another build
vivid vessel
Nothing burger
shut lichen
Ye I don't think outlaw needs much so
Fair
balmy topaz
I mean they still need to fix this part of the tree
vivid vessel
Idc
balmy topaz
Why am I using a talent point on stamina
lone spear
also blade rush and GSW
balmy topaz
In my spec tree
random stirrup
having defensive nodes at the top that you are required to take for pathing is good tho
shut lichen
I'll die on the hill that fucking riposte needs to die
copper radish
also blade rush and GSW
PvP brother
random stirrup
otherwise u never take it
shut lichen
Shit has 0 use in any situation
mighty pivot
the real question is why we have 3 talents for main gauche
vivid vessel
bro i forgot about riposte 
lone spear
PvP brother
fuck pvp
shut lichen
Not even against world mobs
vapid aspen
!sheet
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
copper radish
the real question is why we have 3 talents for main gauche
Real question if why do we have main gauche
mighty pivot
that too
lone spear
half our spec tree is pvp talents 
shut lichen
Real question if why do we have main gauche
Gambler's Fallacy or something idk
wintry solar
half our spec tree is pvp talents <:Pepegrin:1375228958282612797>
Useless there too dw
glass mortar
its hard to fix mastery ok
mighty pivot
although at least MG procs FF even if it does 3 damage
glass mortar
just ignore survival
and monk
and unholy dk now
and who else was it
that all had their mastery reworked/mega buffed mid season
to make it a good stat and make them scale well
the MG problem is simply unsolvable
wintry solar
An enigma
lone spear
idk how much longer i can cope for, if we dont get changes next week they gonna have to double my dosage
wintry solar
We need top scientists working and monitoring it 24/7
mighty pivot
the MG problem is simply unsolvable
it's a rogue problem somehow. Mastery bad for outlaw, haste horribad for sub
shut lichen
idk how much longer i can cope for, if we dont get changes next week they gonna ...
No one plays this class so good luck
glass mortar
haste has a problematic history for energy specs but its mostly due to the gcd thing imo
shut lichen
Midnight reveal includes rogue rework dw guys
glass mortar
so much of hastes value for most specs in the game comes just from increasing gcd along with its other factors
shut lichen
We become shadow rogues or some shit
Or new class is just better rogue
With visuals
glass mortar
u need to find ways to make it scale outside that
shut lichen
And a class fantasy
mighty pivot
well they make up for that by increasing energy regen with haste
glass mortar
no
for any resource spec, haste scales ur resources
energy is no different
the difference is at the same time we get zero gcd value from it
(well normally without this dog AR thingy)
lone spear
teeeechnically it does for us
lone spear
more AA speed from that talent gives more MG procs
glass mortar
up to the point where our gcd caps out
lone spear
i agree it needs more
glass mortar
its a god stat until then
covert kestrel
wheres the eternal beacon of hopium vurai
mellow thicket
Wasn’t sure if y’all were joking about low dps in 11.2 m+. Not sure if anyone checked or asked if the bugs were accidentally reverted in the 11.2 PTR rollout. IE, hitting dead mobs, etc. Not saying it’s likely, just realm of possibilities or is this just not tuned well enough.
glass mortar
more AA speed from that talent gives more MG procs
sure and more haste increases how quickly you apply damage and that damage scales with ur mastery for 99% of specs
still not a unique way for haste to scale us
thats just normal mastery haste interactions
wintry solar
Remember. It took the super scaling of mastery in remix to make it a decent stat
tawdry kite
!wa
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Utilities:
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shut lichen
still not a unique way for haste to scale us
Technically haste increases attack speed
lone spear
still not a unique way for haste to scale us
i agree there could for sure be more
shut lichen
Which increases MG procs
lone spear
but the other rogue specs have it just as bad
shut lichen
So therefore science
lone spear
its a problem with our design
glass mortar
im saying, thats not unique or special
thats normal haste mastery scaling
like every spec in the game does that
if we didnt have that itd be even worse
lone spear
they should maybe re-look at how we interact with haste as a class
glass mortar
for both stats tbh
lone spear
rather than just spec
glass mortar
if i get 20% haste and im applying my shadow damage 20% faster as unholy, my mastery is also amping that 20% faster by 20% more damage etc
mighty pivot
the difference is at the same time we get zero gcd value from it
ok but we are not the only class with 1s base gcd, yet other specs still value haste
random stirrup
50% of the specs in the game now are haste mast
glass mortar
feral barely does, its a dot spec
sin barely does, its a dot spec
sub hates it
brm hates it
seems like 1s gcd classes still struggling
random stirrup
sin does like haste now tho
glass mortar
they had to mega tie in haste to make it good for WW
shut lichen
they should maybe re-look at how we interact with haste as a class
Truth be told, just do competitive dmg and most people forget all the other problems
random stirrup
but ya energy and haste no bueno
glass mortar
yes because after u hit ur gcd breakpoint its still so close to useless for law
balmy topaz
Right zac here me out
vivid vessel
It's cp gen for sub via technique thingy
glass mortar
u need to turbo nuke ur energy budget to make it have a leg to stand on
its funny (look at supercharge ho)
balmy topaz
How about if BtE dispatch consumed coup 
glass mortar
mastery shouldnt be bis, it should probably be about twice as strong as it is now tho so mastery items rnt usually useless (trinkets n such)
and fix the aoe/st scaling issue of it
haste is what id like to see better
and remove this haste tax
its actually the biggest joke way to try to make haste ok for us
glass mortar
would it
glass mortar
mastery is less then half the value of my vers or crit
as HO
🤷
mastery is dogwater
only time its a real stat is if ur kir in aoe with deft and even then it doesnt "beat" the other stats
glass mortar
for me last time i did stat weights it was like 0.9 for vers, 0.85 for crit, 0.41 for mastery
and 0.3 something for haste
random stirrup
mastery = gun ability damage yes yes
glass mortar
havent run a stat weight since early s2 tho so who knows what it is now
it needs to be better
lone spear
yuh
glass mortar
but i dont want mastery to be bis or anything
they just love to put mastery on fun item effects in raid or trinkets and id love for those to not always be nigh useless for law
lone spear
i mean, having vers be bis is objectively good in the past
it only fucked us in turbo boost
glass mortar
of course, if its free and ur always tuned well
lone spear
cause they didnt balance us to account for it
glass mortar
its just free DR
lone spear
ye
glass mortar
relies on blizzard always buffing u to make up for scaling issues, which they usually do
but sometimes they dont (look at s4 df)
mighty pivot
ye the problem is that we have some stats which are valued at half or less than the rest depending on spec. That feels shit
gaunt phoenix
will hardly ever have an op season
gaunt phoenix
you are doomed to peak at above average
balmy topaz
Ye
glass mortar
theres like 3 vers specs left in entire game
so just small sample size to even have a shot at being op
lone spear
its also because burst is what matters most
random stirrup
you are doomed to peak at above average
latent oak
when fire was last meta that was a vers spec aswell right?
mighty pivot
mages are hero class
gaunt phoenix
but i want to be a victim so
glass mortar
ok but idk any vers specs like outlaw
random stirrup
ya fire was too im pretty sure
glass mortar
other vers specs r like
lone spear
but i want to be a victim so
self victimizing is based
glass mortar
"ok haste and vers r my bis stats and mastery and crit are 10% behind"
random stirrup
but mage is kind of cheating
glass mortar
outlaw is like
vale warren
ok but idk any vers specs like outlaw
Are there any specs like outlaw at all
glass mortar
"ok vers is worth double every other secondary as kir once i have 20% crit"
lone spear
and guy has been afk so he doesnt have to see the (valid) complaints about no changes
random stirrup
mage scales with the best stat: blizzard tuning
glass mortar
very different think
lone spear
so pop off king
glass mortar
lmk when u see an arcane/fire/mm hunter with 50% vers
gaunt phoenix
wasnt WW heavy vers before the haste changes
lone spear
ye
balmy topaz
Ye
glass mortar
it was a crit vers
balmy topaz
Pre rework
glass mortar
they rescued it hard, mastery and haste are giga now
and vers and crit r still good (Cause u have so much mastery)
latent oak
wasnt mastery historically giga for ww
mighty pivot
"ok haste and vers r my bis stats and mastery and crit are 10% behind"
even if the bad stats were 20-25% behind it'd be a massive upgrade for outlaw & sub
vivid vessel
meh
glass mortar
mastery has been hit or miss, they specifically buffed its scaling and base power this expac to make it strong again
latent oak
when i was fucking around with it ages ago it was a vers mast spec at least
vivid vessel
do we want to have good stats
glass mortar
the real thing they saved for it was haste
vivid vessel
i like stacking vers
glass mortar
yes zac
vivid vessel
im tanky
glass mortar
we want stats within 10-20% of vers
nobody wants mastery to be better
but it could be good still
gaunt phoenix
i think outlaw could have a crumb where mastery is not negative damage
mighty pivot
vers can still be your best stat even if the other stats aren't a joke
gaunt phoenix
doesnt mean we become vers+mastery spec
latent oak
but other stats being a joke incentivises stacking vers to the moon
lone spear
whats funny is mastery in wow classic increases the chance of main gauche
bring that back and it would actually make mastery feel better
tho i wouldnt want to
but still
latent oak
i just want outlaw gameplay to be completely stat agnostic
latent oak
taking mastery from the m+ affix
ya
idk about cool, was just a novelty
seeing main gauche that high
lone spear
novelty is cool
vale warren
Wasn't mastery the worst stat on that affix cause it gave rating instead of %
lone spear
its why i want some changes to outlaw, even tho the spec plays great (not counting KS)
mellow thicket
Not sure why, outlaw dps can’t be normalized. To at least be above the bar that is what 25 to 50 percent over tank damage?! Like what is the benchmark that devs have to compare these values against or is this a blind man trying to hit an invisible target?
copper radish
Would they ever remake MG so that it’s just the old sword spec and gives us an extra MH hit
latent oak
i think the big advantage of buffing mastery is that it lowers the skill floor of outlaw somewhat
mellow thicket
Insert random percentage of what normal B/A/S tier is supposed to be.
frail veldt
Would they ever remake MG so that it’s just the old sword spec and gives us an e...
How would that be any different
latent oak
like u can play rotationally awfully and if mastery is a good stat u will still do some damage
frail veldt
That's the same it just depends on tuning
sudden fulcrum
outlaw mastery should summon Mewo to smite your foes
copper radish
How would that be any different
Would be an extra MH hit instead of an OH hit. Maybe make it work on abilities too
frail veldt
Lol
frail veldt
Would be an extra MH hit instead of an OH hit. Maybe make it work on abilities t...
I mean that's still arbitrary
And is effectively "do X% more damage"
gaunt phoenix
main gauche should summon a ghost cannon barrage, and affect RTB chances, and affect SS chance, and affect gun damage
latent oak
main gauche should summon a ghost cannon barrage, and affect RTB chances, and af...
and uncap bladeflurry
burnt tangle
Would be an extra MH hit instead of an OH hit. Maybe make it work on abilities t...
get ready to download a swingtimer in retail 
wintry solar
Solo gets it
mighty pivot
main gauche should summon a ghost cannon barrage, and affect RTB chances, and af...
and speed up KS
trail plinth
Main gauche should have a chance to pickpocket a few gold from enemies
vale warren
and uncap bladeflurry
Mfw I get no mg procs on first pull brew
latent oak
skill issue
fast cloak
Is an outlaw rework in the works? Is that why yall sre having this discussion?
covert kestrel
main gauche should summon a ghost cannon barrage, and affect RTB chances, and af...
1 point mastery = 1 more bullet in pistol shot
random stirrup
mastery should rapidly increase mg chance up to 100% and then have 0 effect so we can have 2 stat caps
lone spear
Is an outlaw rework in the works? Is that why yall sre having this discussion?
in our minds? always. at blizzard hq? probs not
covert kestrel
Is an outlaw rework in the works? Is that why yall sre having this discussion?
theres nothing else to really discuss at this point in the season
mighty pivot
yes they are reworking outlaw from the ground up that's why they don't make any changes
wintry solar
Is an outlaw rework in the works? Is that why yall sre having this discussion?
Meming
vivid vessel
You remember in like late SL you could take some mastery for aoe scaling
df you mean
vale warren
Is an outlaw rework in the works? Is that why yall sre having this discussion?
No our dev is busy making the 3rd dh spec
vivid vessel
s2 df
fast cloak
Wtf lol
vivid vessel
dont remmebr ?
shut lichen
SLs I remember having fun playing outlaw
gaunt phoenix
i remember something about kyrian br
shut lichen
That all stopped when crackshot came
gaunt phoenix
maybe im schizo
lone spear
im going to sleep, but i'll leave you with this idea
vivid vessel
s2 df was ho blade rush (no crackshot at the time)
latent oak
na we did it in sl aswell
fast cloak
Maybe they will at least make it so we don't have to run KS? Or did they fix that already? I quit right after KS became the meta
balmy topaz
s2 df was ho blade rush (no crackshot at the time)
Tis was a very boring season
vivid vessel
haste in sanctum
lone spear
turn killing spree into a 2min cd off restless blade big damage spender
latent oak
ppl starting taking the mastery buff
shut lichen
Tis was a very boring season
Rolled bad on tier set rng
balmy topaz
How about if BtE dispatch consumed coup <:suskaygeagreegebusiness:12353787364809...
@vivid vessel Thoughts on this btw
glass mortar
Reduced coup damage by 50%
wintry solar
Rolled bad on tier set rng
That was the void ripper season wasn't it?
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> Thoughts on this btw
bad why ?
glass mortar
Would It even matter tho
vivid vessel
no gameplay
balmy topaz
I guess
vestal notch
main gauche should summon a ghost cannon barrage, and affect RTB chances, and af...
i wish cannon barrage was still a thing
vivid vessel
i like gameplay
vivid vessel
ppl starting taking the mastery buff
yes ok but that was just cause it scaled way better
like it just gave more
lucid sandal
Quick question if I have coup and KS ready which one do I use first
gaunt phoenix
ks
lone crow
u took crit anyways in that season
shut lichen
That was the void ripper season wasn't it?
Df s2? Idk about any void ripper it was Aberrus tier
gaunt phoenix
and then coup at low cp if you would otherwise press sinister strike
lucid sandal
Ohh ok
wintry solar
Idk how people remember tier bonuses
shut lichen
So it meant zskarn trinket or bust
glass mortar
i remember a mastery bug in sims in shadowlands that led to a bunch of bozos taking mastery affix for keys and thinking mastery was huge
but idr the last time mastery was actually good
shut lichen
Idk how people remember tier bonuses
This was a notorious tier set tbf
lean root
Critical Chain it sim me worst then craged crystal did someon try to use Critical Chain ?
glass mortar
other then br on like, academy pulls memes
wintry solar
This was a notorious tier set tbf
The one that pulled and had infinite range?
shut lichen
The one that worked but didn't work as intended
glass mortar
itd be more ok how mastery scales selectively in aoe if it wasnt based off two talents, one of which is never taken tho
shut lichen
Where it didn't follow it's own design rules but somehow worked
wintry solar
That's Outlaw for sure
shut lichen
Solid 2 weeks of ptr testing was trying to understand it
Damn with crackshot existing im never getting tornado trigger back
wintry solar
sudden fulcrum
that sounds cool
wintry solar
It was
mighty pivot
I used all my failbound luck on ptr
remote pecan
you dnt need luck on ptr, with new tier set you basically shit out coins 😄
wintry solar
Don't do that
mighty pivot
ye except I dog flip the moment it's not GS or AR
gaunt phoenix
<:HOLY:1250893440183570533> I used all my failbound luck on ptr
isnt that heads coin
mighty pivot
yes
mighty pivot
just reset the boss until it happens 
remote pecan
and then you wipe and lose your parse anyway?
keen belfry
why is blizz buffing monk buff
didnt they do the exact opposite with dh and mage buff
gaunt phoenix
they said their reason
keen belfry
yes but
gaunt phoenix
Not many pure phys classes
gaunt phoenix
yes i think it's not good
lime lake
now those classes get to be tuned around an even higher raid buff and feel even worse when they dont have it
huge
gaunt phoenix
We had shadowlands legendaries worth 8% dps
keen belfry
i legit will feel like im trolling if i do any key without a monk
gaunt phoenix
you ever just wanna unequip celerity
keen belfry
like man
ive been complaining about loading into certain keys doing like 14% less damage based on comp
now that number is 17?
(this is more of a conversation on raid buffs in m+ IMO)
literally unbalancable design
mighty pivot
just filter out groups without monk 
gaunt phoenix
i've convinced my tank to go brew instead of prot war
keen belfry
lil bro always based and logical
random stirrup
fellowship so much more chill not worrying about raid buffs
melee and casters living in harmony
keen belfry
they need to either turn off raid buffs in non raid or give them all in non raid
keen belfry
i used to not care until this season
raid buffs do good job in raid of forcing class diversity
mighty pivot
going from 5% to 8% it makes MT a higher boost for outlaw than skyfury is for sub
keen belfry
they are too restrictive in 5 man content
gaunt phoenix
what if we just played WW 
ripe ibex
they are too restrictive in 5 man content
motw is essentially mandatory
keen belfry
going from 5% to 8% it makes MT a higher boost for outlaw than skyfury is for su...
one of my least fav things about sub in m+ was having to play with a shaman
now its worse for outlaw? gg
mighty pivot
well now outlaw has that too with monks
ripe ibex
and for any melee comp so is shaman buff
random stirrup
at least outlaw just loses damage not having monk buff
playing sub without skyfury you're just suffering with less resources
covert kestrel
just dont play more that 15s and play with whatever 
ripe ibex
playing sub without skyfury you're just suffering with less resources
but that’s still just a damage loss
mighty pivot
playing sub without skyfury you're just suffering with less resources
ultimately also just damage
gaunt phoenix
yep
ripe ibex
doing 20% less damage feels worse
gaunt phoenix
Like outlaw rng affecting gameplay rather than just crits
ripe ibex
idrc in what way it shows itself
ripe ibex
Like outlaw rng affecting gameplay rather than just crits
yeah true
isn’t there like a number on raid bots
that shows variation due to rng
gaunt phoenix
yea
ripe ibex
where is rhat
mighty pivot
https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/TWW2_Raid.html under Additional Raid Information
gaunt phoenix
standard deviation / mean is a measure of "variance"
ripe ibex
wow outlaw is way higher than i expected
covert kestrel
werent frost and allthem mega variant recently ntho
random stirrup
fdk was like 8 before the recent changes ya
ripe ibex
is there a way to see this per sim
gaunt phoenix
So over 5 minutes outlaw's dps will vary within (+/-) 4.8% usually
keen belfry
our rng number is high, but the rng "feel/vibes" factor we get is higher than every other spec imo. when we bad rng it just feels bad to play
i coined the term "my class isnt working"
gaunt phoenix
is there a way to see this per sim
if you have access to the full report
mighty pivot
it's way more noticeable when you cannot press your buttons if you are used to pressing every gcd
ripe ibex
if you have access to the full report
ya
covert kestrel
also a lot more variable in a single raid pull than across an m+ dungeon i assume
keen belfry
it's way more noticeable when you cannot press your buttons if you are used to p...
yeah like arcane spellslinger the only rng you see/feel is your dmg meter for the most part
you still are pressing buttons
covert kestrel
do some classes have similar levels of variability in raid than m+? prob impossible to parse due to groups
novel socket
do we have any sim sheets from ptr ?
gaunt phoenix
you can go here and manually divide standard deviation / mean
mighty pivot
do we have any sim sheets from ptr ?
there is this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aPZSnwMrSNHRe2Q65XedqmFN4-8P0NlK4Bx03vaxclA/edit?gid=0#gid=0
ripe ibex
you can go here and manually divide standard deviation / mean
ah tyty goat
gaunt phoenix
those are logs
mighty pivot
oh he said sims
gaunt phoenix
i think we should delete that sheet on sight
mighty pivot
nvm
dawn talon
i coined the term "my class isnt working"
im sure my friends are tired of hearing "am i allowed to press my buttons now?"
ripe ibex
i am completely making this up but in my head i feel like outlaw is far less random in aoe
dawn talon
LMFAO
gaunt phoenix
i am completely making this up but in my head i feel like outlaw is far less ran...
its true for kir
dawn talon
i roll a 1 buff and i legit
gaunt phoenix
deft maneuvers significantly helps variance
dawn talon
instinctually say fuck my kappachungus life
covert kestrel
i fuckin love deft
balmy topaz
Wouldn't it also be great if they got rid of Buried Treasure
gaunt phoenix
right now yes
balmy topaz
That would help variance
gaunt phoenix
but the HO Supercharger build has unnaturally high variance for HO
mighty pivot
i think we should delete that sheet on sight
everything looks fine and balanced in it
keen belfry
whats kir 1fth single target variance
gaunt phoenix
a lot
gaunt phoenix
well the standard deviation is probably like 6%
that means most pulls are within 6%
but some pulls are within 12%
😨
keen belfry
i guess im just ball parking numbers from fights this tier
which include ones u cant press ks
gaunt phoenix
so feeling like a 10% difference is probably grounded in data
keen belfry
i just feel like my st output absolutely varies around 300k difference
which is more than 10%
in m+
gaunt phoenix
well that would be the range right
random stirrup
sometimes you just roll 3 one buffs in a row and have a minute left on ar cd
it is what it is
gaunt phoenix
one pull could be 12% ahead of the mean
and one pull could be 12% lower than the mean
that would be a potential 24% difference
keen belfry
im so bad at this kind of math
ripe ibex
12+12
keen belfry
20
ripe ibex
outlaw math 👍
mighty pivot
if he knew math he wouldn't end up an outlaw to survive
keen belfry
i swear theres a bug on mugzee pull
i would run out of energy on pull (first crackshot) every time
my guilds first ever reclear last night and we took 30 pulls to kill mugzee ❤️
keen belfry
i just havent raid much as law this season
but i swear running out of energy on first crackshot felt so wrong
proven ocean
wintry solar
Gotta level a new character
late swallow
sudden fulcrum
wait for the 15th for the XP event
keen belfry
my seed is strong
vivid vessel
deft maneuvers significantly helps variance
And then you play 1 fth
copper radish
Has anyone tried with 0 FTH
dawn talon
my guilds first ever reclear last night and we took 30 pulls to kill mugzee ❤️
im reclearing tomorrow
pull #10 of mugzee im gonna be tkaing my pet rock for a walk bro i cant do this
💔
upper surge
M+ bosses r short af too so that def makes a noticeable difference
Im not sure the 4'10 vulpera should be talking about other people being too short
upper surge
Uh huh
copper radish
Im not sure the 4'10 vulpera should be talking about other people being too shor...
What’s a vulpera? Is that one of those furries
glass mortar
And I'm a worgen???
upper surge
copper radish
And I'm a worgen???
That’s a bigger furry lol
upper surge
And I'm a worgen???
I was talking about you IRL
glass mortar
I'm 6'1". Everyone from priest discord id freakishly tall tho
Where'd u hear that I'm short
upper surge
Smei
gaunt phoenix
height reveal
upper surge
So you're tiny
glass mortar
He's got that nightborne build
Looks like someone rolled over him with a steamroller
upper surge
Twist you're 6'1, it's practically a cheat code. Just get on Grindr Jesus son
upper surge
Looks like someone rolled over him with a steamroller
Rip his back
upper surge
I'm a good influence on him
glass mortar
He's half of my raid leaders its my job to make him miserable
upper surge
I also was your raid leader in Tarisland!
Long history
So what do you act like when I'm not here? Do I need to search your history
fallow hinge
So what do you act like when I'm not here? Do I need to search your history
can confirm Weran is 100% certified friendly bean when you're not here
fallow hinge
????? There's no vulpera on there
I got some vulpera
glass mortar
Wtf teach me all I get is ghosted
fallow hinge
Wtf teach me all I get is ghosted
slow, steady movements so you don't startle them. Bring some berries, preferably raspberries. Don't touch their ears without asking. Don't get down on their level or talk like they're a cute widdle babby.
trail plinth
hi friends on 3rd boss floodgate do we just not killing spree? how do yall game that?
glass mortar
Larias brings out the shit stirrer in me idk why everytime he's here
random stirrup
press on cd and take your party members for a wild ride
glass mortar
hi friends on 3rd boss floodgate do we just not killing spree? how do yall game ...
If ur sending during waves send at low cp
trail plinth
mr bones i want off the wild ride
glass mortar
Don't sent during frontal
gaunt phoenix
you can send at low cp sometimes
glass mortar
Low cp right before is fine
fallow hinge
tmi
gaunt phoenix
ye
glass mortar
Owo
copper radish
press on cd and take your party members for a wild ride
I do this on floodgate. It’s fun
Just pray you don’t land in a bubble during
random stirrup
every time i do weeklies with the homies its always roulette to see who gets to enjoy killing spree with me
copper radish
I aent losing DPS over my parties lives 😂
glass mortar
It can yank them but it's rng and it won't continously yank them
trail plinth
ty for the help
copper radish
Everytime I press it they getting yanked a few times lol
fallow hinge
It can yank them but it's rng and it won't continously yank them
but what if they're into that?
glass mortar
Then 7 cp+ supercharge that shit
trail plinth
is it similar mentality on low cp ks for 1st boss rookery? i am always terrified of casting it on that boss
glass mortar
Go for a wild ride
trail plinth
i usually just wait til after the landing aoe
glass mortar
U can generally fit full sprees between mechanics on that boss but if ur option is delay for several finishers or low cp, better to send it low cp
During intermission u can only press as he's flying to center or out
Or with cloak
Can't do it during beams at any cp
random stirrup
you can send it before the landing aoe
copper radish
My favorite is when I got the aoe shock on the last boss in floodgate. Second I got it hit KS and I think I took the healer out 😂
random stirrup
just dont cast it before seeing where the swirl is in case it baits on you
glass mortar
Yea right as he starts charge cast at end works fine
gaunt phoenix
is it similar mentality on low cp ks for 1st boss rookery? i am always terrified...
more like dfc 3rd boss
trail plinth
was just gonna ask about that one
gaunt phoenix
Have to low cp or hold it
trail plinth
i feel tank always microsteps from statues and i get stunned
gaunt phoenix
ye
fallow hinge
stop getting stunned then :3
gaunt phoenix
My tank was aware of it but i dont do omegafuck keys
at some point you prolly cant risk it at all
fallow hinge
My tank was aware of it but i dont do omegafuck keys
what's the threshold for "omegafuck"?
gaunt phoenix
when the smallest error is a wipe
toxic star
new to outlaw, for simming dungeons/aoe, is dslice fine? mdt sim? or just a patchwerk 5t?
gaunt phoenix
dslice or mdt is fine
late swallow
solo haven't you been piloting zac's rogue this season in keys?
gaunt phoenix
will likely have the same gear
late swallow
he just raidlogs and you boost his keys, no?
gaunt phoenix
yea im in his walls
vivid vessel
wtff
fallow hinge
really?
me too
which wall are you in
we should coordinate knocking to freak him out
strong halo
woops tempered vers is better than alchemical chaos?
fallow hinge
we dont like all stats
all stats don't like you
vivid vessel
late swallow
love my homie zac ngl
vivid vessel
@gaunt phoenix that key i sent earlier with lowe uptime on ks
i dont really hold ks tho
vivid vessel
75% of ks being full cp ks
late swallow
are you a bugchaser?
strong halo
and he makes me look bad
strong halo
are you a bugchaser?
i just wna join the gang
vivid vessel
didnt i say you should learn how to play outlaw first
before trying to min max useless silly stuffs
or was that someone else
gaunt phoenix
i do avoid supercharging ks tho
i should sim that
late swallow
mfs will watch your stream and see you do the sc snd thing
vivid vessel
i should sim that
i think its not that hard to do especially in aoe
late swallow
and then be like "yes I need this to help me with my 50% adr uptime keys"
vivid vessel
like as long as you arent building with ss
you arent fucking yourself over
just wasting rtb cdr
thats all
strong halo
and then be like "yes I need this to help me with my 50% adr uptime keys"
thats me
vivid vessel
and if i really dont wanna supercharge a ks and i can only build with ss, at this point it just means i wanna low cp ks anwyay so
strong halo
Why fix my 20% dps loss when i can maximize 0.2%?
vivid vessel
i generally dont have many supercharged ks i think
vivid vessel
Why fix my 20% dps loss when i can maximize 0.2%?
ok but tbf
that bug thing
i think for most people
you just lose damage
strong halo
fallow hinge
love seeing survival that high
gaunt phoenix
logs are good when my spec is high
gaunt phoenix
upper surge
Hi buddy
glass mortar
Ludacris guide is almost done zac
strong halo
I switched over from arcane mage, for this!?!
vivid vessel
about my craft for s3
vivid vessel
can you help
vivid vessel
Ludacris guide is almost done zac
who tf is ludacris
upper surge
about my craft for s3
Actually it's funny you joke about that, there are so many weapons from the first three bosses on mythic
upper surge
Yeah, it's going to be a weird season
gaunt phoenix
ty lapras
vivid vessel
larat guide is always bis !
vivid vessel
i have been saying it for so long !
glass mortar
What r stats
random stirrup
i will not craft
hello am larias, you should craft an intellect dagger to become smart
upper surge
Pin it
fallow hinge
I think there's a lot of weapons front loaded into s3
glass mortar
If we crafted int daggers we all woulda quit months ago rather then play kspree for a whole season
fallow hinge
kinda like it tbh
glass mortar
fallow hinge
poison = nature damage, nature damage = magic, magic = spell, spell = intellect
logic checks out
continue
strong halo
big noob
upper surge
First 3 bosses have AGI polearm, 1h str mace, 1h int mace, dagger, bow, shield, agi fist weapon and BIS caster staff for all casters
strong halo
@vivid vessel 1% short of being my idol
vivid vessel
to r1 first boss
gaunt phoenix
i like that it rounds up to 100 anyway
random stirrup
to r1 first boss
so TRUE
glass mortar
First 3 bosses have AGI polearm, 1h str mace, 1h int mace, dagger, bow, shield, ...
Wtf sheeeesh
gaunt phoenix
Do we have a cantrip weapon
upper surge
I didn't check, casters have a cantrip weapon and set bonus with trinket
random stirrup
Do we have a cantrip weapon
dont think so
gaunt phoenix
can i join ?
vivid vessel
good
upper surge
Technically casters have three different cantrip weapons LOL
upper surge
can i join ?
Lmao sorry it's mostly my irl friends group plus a few others
vivid vessel
Lmao sorry it's mostly my irl friends group plus a few others
Hi
do you not remember me
gaunt phoenix
it's me your bro
vivid vessel
im zac
upper surge
vivid vessel
we went to elementary school together
gaunt phoenix
i get nerd tag
you get my presence
good deal ?
fallow hinge
we went to elementary school together
was I the teacher?
upper surge
It's a good tag isn't it
vivid vessel
was I the teacher?
yaaaaa
fallow hinge
still waiting on that homework
upper surge
He ate it
upper surge
Here ya go zac, I still need to upload the image and I'm waiting on infinite grind stuff but it's mostly done
Just don't tell zeross
gaunt phoenix
empty elbow
we don't take KS for fatebound in ptr do we?
vivid vessel
should replace this with "outlaw rogue" but
upper surge
too many words tf
I literally put a link
glass mortar
Laryngitis speaks the outlaw (zoomer) lingo
vivid vessel
ahah
glass mortar
💅
vivid vessel
you think imma click a link ?
in 2025
you heard what happebned to whispry or what
not getting got
bozo
gaunt phoenix
ty larynx
upper surge
One of the funnier things I realized is that runed crests are garbage
vivid vessel
runed is hc ?
upper surge
Ye
gaunt phoenix
nice filter
upper surge
You'll be done with them by the second week
vivid vessel
You'll be done with them by the second week
what really
it wasnt like that this season wasnt it
empty elbow
@vivid vessel is it worth taking KS as fatebound in raid + raid/st on PTR?
random stirrup
You'll be done with them by the second week
is that assuming delve belt is good
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> is it worth taking KS as fatebound in raid + raid/st on PT...
you cant play fb ks its bugged
gaunt phoenix
<@352916297262301194> is it worth taking KS as fatebound in raid + raid/st on PT...
currently no, KS gets canceled by tails coin
upper surge
it wasnt like that this season wasnt it
No, they added plus 10s dropping three out of six mid season
empty elbow
so then this is the default KIR like usual yeah?
gaunt phoenix
in raid yes
empty elbow
thanks superstar
vivid vessel
No, they added plus 10s dropping three out of six mid season
hmge
cause you were starting lower in s2 ?
i dont remember honestly
i think this doesnt concern me maybe
i think i was done with hc crest instantly in s2 aswell
empty elbow
in raid yes
hows it looking for outlaw for this upcoming tier?
wondering if my guild is going to need me to just do assa/sub instead for prog
vivid vessel
if you are full hc geared week one ?
its basically over no ?
idk
i dont remember
fuck gear
upper surge
is that assuming delve belt is good
Sort of, if delve belt is bad then it can take 1 more week before runed suck if you have bad drops from raid
gaunt phoenix
hows it looking for outlaw for this upcoming tier?
wondering if my guild is goin...
Idk ptr predictions are always wrong
somehow
upper surge
if you are full hc geared week one ?
If you're a degenerate who slams keys you'll be in 701 or higher gear in every slot
4/6 heroic track gear is 704
upper surge
Nerd
empty elbow
Idk ptr predictions are always wrong
mm gotcha, I guess it depends on what the dmg profile we'll need depending on the boss
gaunt phoenix
i mean it's also just tuning
empty elbow
true true
upper surge
Lmao