right here
#outlaw
proven ocean
haughty wigeon
dude
fossil lintel
You should read the text, remembering the name is whatever
lone crow
db and gingi is playing other hero tree
haughty wigeon
nvm
vivid vessel
i see
haughty wigeon
forget i said anything
proven ocean
db and gingi is playing other hero tree
whos db
haughty wigeon
unholy dk
lone crow
dawnbreaker
wintry solar
Deez buttz
lone crow
yw zac uwu
proven ocean
zac uwu
wintry solar
Yall should kiss
lone crow
just saying
vivid vessel
zero uwu
vivid vessel
yeye
it is what it is
tbf i think you would rather be mid on ptr
cause ptr get tuning
fossil lintel
That's not even a good thing since tuning will happen
proven ocean
anythng
glass mortar
isnt arcane like the gigachad funneler on live
if its winning on overalls in dungeons
its probably a problem
lone crow
havoc does also funnel crazy rn
proven ocean
its winning overall+turbo ass funnel but weran be aware of this btw they dont tune funnel
at all
like
at all
glass mortar
ye i know
glass mortar
they r shit at designing this game around profiles
sometimes it happens by accident but half the time shit is broken its the most busted shit in its niche and also just the highest overall mf on the planet
its sad
proven ocean
they r shit at designing this game around profiles
ret paladin is one of the worst specs in high m+ in retail rn, and when i argue with a ret pal they think im trolling
glass mortar
there profile seems really wonky
proven ocean
ret does more overall than sin by a good amount but u lose 1-2 mins automatically from only a ret pala
in the grp
just
ret joins grp
-1 key timer
-1 min
haughty wigeon
ret isnt the super op turbo busted spec in the game every shitter says they are
crazy
glass mortar
its in a good place honestly for what the spec is and its target playerbase imo
let them think they are the most op turbo busted spec in the game
fossil lintel
its winning overall+turbo ass funnel but weran be aware of this btw they dont tu...
Bro, the sub guys are right there, don't let them catch you saying that shit
proven ocean
Bro, the sub guys are right there, don't let them catch you saying that shit
sub is way better dmg profile than ret
but its bad too ye
sub only has rly bad dmg
its dmg profile is excellent imo
haughty wigeon
i cant wait to be useless early in the season until i get the .5 buff
fossil lintel
Yeah but they killed their funnel because of zul
1 boss and they lost their giga funnel just like that
glass mortar
zul was a problem but sometimes blizzard lets a problem like that snowball into deleting a fun aspect of a spec forever
theres an uncaplaw joke in here somewhere
do keep in mind that on zul u were better off having ur main raiders play sub rogues in legit herioc dungeon gear for raw boss damage
that boss was very funny stuff
quaint mauve
is this spec considered funnel? or no
glass mortar
man current arcane would eat that boss up
lone spear
we're considered cleave
quaint mauve
ah
lone spear
you could maybe say deft gives us tiny funnel
glass mortar
trickster kir has very very minor funnel
lone spear
but not really
glass mortar
i wouldnt take it seriously because ur not rlly doing more St then u would in full ST talents with deft on aoe
but ur doing about the same which is good
quaint mauve
do you not get more combo points in aoe? and do more dmg to your primary target? idk
lone spear
passive cleave is a great damage profile, especially because we lose nothing for it
glass mortar
kir trickster does
thats why it can match its ST in ST build if you have "funnel"
but ur not actually gaining damage past ur st
glass mortar
HO doesnt play deft, fatebound actually loses ST in any aoe situation due to the hero talents
so no funnel there (negative funnel for fatebound)
quaint mauve
i asked one question earlier but it got flooded out :p
should i always adrenaline at 0 combo points ?
seems to be ideal on my
mind
glass mortar
the guide says low cp so imma say anywhere from 0-3 probably
not sure what the exact value is but thats whereabout i use it
glass mortar
tru
glass mortar
i mean if i finish on 1 cp i might be on zero next to max out my adr cdr
have u considered that zac
????
vivid vessel
Idk a situation where you would press it at 3 really
glass mortar
ye thats rare only happens if i finish >now adr is on like a 1 s cd and i dont wanna wait so u pressa builder
and now do u wanna wait to adr and press a finisher before it
or just waste some CP
lone spear
when we arent complaining 
glass mortar
we r helpful even when we are complaining 😠
im sorry ur question got lost tho
usually someone snipes them even if its mid zac crashout
usually that person is me but im trying to finish paperwork rn so i can be on my long weekend
glass mortar
u were doomed to fail because the outlaw community has a deep dislike for the idea of giving us a real cd profile
idd with ur core idea that it would be a net positive design wise
some things just come out ahead of that i think
its like when they changed survival to be a melee and the spec never recovered even tho i think its a super cool spec now a day
ur doing something that doesnt target the core playerbase of that spec and is actively make them want to quit it
lone spear
yea, i guess people just prioritize different stuff for what they like about a spec
for me the gameplay is why i play law
wintry solar
Why doesn't ho/kir work?
lone spear
the shitty damage profile is just a tradeoff
vivid vessel
No cd is gameplay
glass mortar
Why doesn't ho/kir work?
cause u cant take fth can u
lone spear
i mean
vivid vessel
A spec with CDs plays way different than a spec with CDs
lone spear
if u just added "big bomba" ability
vivid vessel
It changes everything
glass mortar
u know how much heavy lifting fth does for HO right
audacity can proc off every shot
glass mortar
imagine if u only shot once
lone spear
ur still pressing same buttons
vivid vessel
Cds
wintry solar
cause u cant take fth can u
I'm pretty sure you can
vivid vessel
Well you really aren't
wintry solar
Idr
lone spear
i mean i understand what u mean
CDs do warp rotations
but some dont
and i think they could design one that doesnt
but like weran said, i dont think they will
glass mortar
I'm pretty sure you can
u literally cannot
u run out of points right here
u need to give up 1 or the other to have enough points to get it
wintry solar
Dang
glass mortar
if we could take fth and both of those we absolutely would sine both r strong enough to drive entire playstyles
wintry solar
Makes sense then lol
quaint mauve
wait does uhh idk the name of it the skull ability, apply to multiple targets if u press it during the aoe thing
glass mortar
ghostly strike? no
its only aoe value is its direct damage on cast and cp gen
its a ST talent
quaint mauve
okok
glass mortar
a very very strong ST talent
lone spear
ur doing something that doesnt target the core playerbase of that spec and is ac...
whats funny is other specs have gone through multiple complete overhauls
and have playerbases stick around
if rogue is next in line for rework like some think
i wonder how much damage it will do to the core playerbase
glass mortar
alot of the core elements tend to stick around but yea its not impossible to do
like we had a fairly large rejig in DF s3 infact
outlaw was transformed quite drastically imo while keeping the core elements similar
and the damage profile almost identical
which is impressive since ud think the crackshot design would lead to some kinda psuedo cd playstyle
lone spear
yea, i remember trying it and saying "yuck this is so hard and crazy"
but you just adapt i guess
lime lake
adapt or move on
glass mortar
it is nice we can leverage slightly elevated damage windows sometimes now a day i guess
glass mortar
double vanish charges probably the best change we got this expac honestly, its definitly a happy replacement for dance
lone spear
jinx
glass mortar
😠
lone spear
sorry watching T1 bully minor regions
proven ocean
@vivid vessel watch kira stream
prot warrior turbo broken
way stronger than brewmaster
its crazy
it can tank high keys without a healer
and does like
more dps
wtf
it has way more utility too
double st stun, aoe stun aoe fear reflect
cheatdeath from dying
keen belfry
mistweaver meta!!
proven ocean
insane dps
LOOOOOOOOOOOL
and aoe silence too
WTF
6 SEC SILENCE
ON WARRIOR
looooooooooooooooool
mighty pivot
it's aoe interrupt not a silence
late swallow
Warriors get to enjoy PTR meta until vdh gets giga buffed again
proven ocean
@vivid vessel 3 min fight so far
8m 5 targets 688 ilvl
thats almost higher than outlaw
xd
proven ocean
Warriors get to enjoy PTR meta until vdh gets giga buffed again
no one knows about prot warr being op btw
only kira
only now hes showing me
proven ocean
<@352916297262301194> 3 min fight so far
688 ilvl
WTF
16m healing passive healing btw
in 1 tick
from his normal bleeds
xdd
wary bridge
<@352916297262301194> 3 min fight so far
lime lake
sorry watching T1 bully minor regions
you jinxed it
lone spear
grim spear
The Single-Button Assistant and Assisted Highlight now recommend more appropriate weapon poisons based on your talents and adjust their recommendations towards Wound Poison in PvP content.
omg so cool
haughty wigeon
i wonder how much damage it will do to the core playerbase
i mean alot of specs keep their core engines
the only true reworks are probably just like what
idk
3 specs total?
lone spear
well core rotation is one thing
glass mortar
ok but if u count within single specs shadow priest has had its core engine redesigned like 3 or 4 times on its own
usually they dont change that even for reworks tho yea
shadow is just eternally cooked
simmering on the heater
lone spear
yea like they arent gonna change us from builder > spender
or remove RB entirely
but if ur saying adding what is essentially convoke to outlaws is gonna kill off peoples enjoyment
then idk i would disagree
but then again this is just personal preference
some people actually enjoy moonkin rotation
glass mortar
shadows been like 4 different specs since wod at least imma be honest
sharp hinge
some people actually enjoy moonkin rotation
boomkin rotation is okay, but dotting everything feels like ass
lone spear
boomkin rotation is okay, but dotting everything feels like ass
i think elune moonkin is the most boring thing on the planet
glass mortar
they certainly lost me as a player
lone spear
buy again, preference
quiet ore
no one knows about prot warr being op btw
Always has been
lone spear
whats great about wow is unless you are legit going for top 50 world or are in a toxic guild
you can play any spec and clear all content
sharp hinge
i think elune moonkin is the most boring thing on the planet
its all about keeper
proven ocean
whats great about wow is unless you are legit going for top 50 world or are in a...
toxic guild
or just be the toxic guy and leave
if they're that annoying
proven ocean
i hate cringe guilds
lone spear
is because ur in that situation
proven ocean
i only raid for fun
lone spear
its a game at end of the day, choose to have fun 👍
sharp hinge
werent you just talking about damage earlier
frail veldt
but if ur saying adding what is essentially convoke to outlaws is gonna kill off...
Well convoke is a large CD big nuke
Unfortunately we don't have that lol
proven ocean
werent you just talking about damage earlier
i like dmg i never raid to purely do dmg
dense forge
Rogue changes for next patch , all abilities damage increased by 10% (See you next season , Your developers)
proven ocean
feel free to ask my officers
i even save shiv for the adds on gallywix btw
feel free to check logs
they're public
dense forge
Bro im not a hater dude but whats up with developers those days
sharp hinge
i like dmg i never raid to purely do dmg
for me, its since im already in there i might as well try to parse the boss
cinder relic
Ks just got reworked and the trickster tier got fixed as well
frail veldt
Bro im not a hater dude but whats up with developers those days
Too busy working on the specs that matter(ret paladin)
lone spear
i mean yea we're having work done on outlaw
frail veldt
But yeah tbh weve gotten some good attention so far this ptr
proven ocean
atleast outlaw is getting changes
frail veldt
So I'm excited
proven ocean
sin is in shambles
lone spear
but rogue is getting so little compared to other functional classes
cinder relic
Whats wrong with sin
lone spear
you gotta call it out
dense forge
Am i the only one that feels like rogue is in shambles? like literally close to a need of rework
proven ocean
sin is so weak and undertuned so
dense forge
And getting like one button roation changes only
proven ocean
sin is so weak and undertuned so
not talking raid ofc
cinder relic
ALl 3 rogue specs are undertuned
dense forge
Sin deathstalker is a vibe to play in keys
dense forge
right?
frail veldt
Afaik
cinder relic
Idc about tuning I'm talking about the vibes of the specs
dense forge
Sin deathstalker in keys is Aidsss
dense forge
not talking bout tuning at all
proven ocean
on sin with new tier set?
frail veldt
No I haven't played new tier I just meant in general on live
glass mortar
wouldnt call tier fixed but its def improved so good job
1 more change and some tuning and itll be fixed
median lance
ROUGE WILL RISE AGAIN JUST LIKE THE SOUTH
frail veldt
Sin play style seems the least broken of the 3 specs haha
proven ocean
No I haven't played new tier I just meant in general on live
on live yes im talking about ptr atm mewo its really bad there atm
tier set is soooooooooo bad
its unbelievable
makes gameplay so SHIT
lone spear
i think its just like, its time for some freshness with rogue, especially when it comes to talents
cinder relic
DS sin feels good on ptr no?
wintry solar
DS sin feels good on ptr no?
I thought people liked it
cinder relic
It felt p good on testing to me idk
proven ocean
but honestly it's reeally bad to play
idk no point extending shiv by 2 seconds
and consuming 1 mark by shiv is pointless because it can be badly ligned up
and u end up in weird situations
cinder relic
It felt like it lined up pretty good during testing to me idk
proven ocean
feels like its just taking things off of you instead of offering new things
cinder relic
Just feels like current sin but dry shiv is more important
proven ocean
It felt like it lined up pretty good during testing to me idk
in dummies sure
and raid maybe too but
in m+ lots of things going on and things just aren't scripted
sometimes u cant even shiv on kingsbane in M+ because alot of things is going on
so a longer shiv cd and consuming mark can be sus
besides the duration is way longer than kingsbane
so it feels completely wasted
best case scenario it adds 1 envenom
feels rly weak
sometimes u dont even get an extra envenom
i think it'll be 2pc 2pc in M+ for a while
cinder relic
The extra shiv duration doesn't feel like it does much, the DS effect, and -1 mark is good tho so idrc
+2 seconds or not, it plays basically the asme
proven ocean
-1 mark is really bad in keys
like super super bad
totally unneeded, and the 2 sec shiv is utterly useless
especially that shiv doesnt spatter
if the tier set makes shiv icnrease spatter dmg then it'll be really interesting
cinder relic
Why is -1 mark bad in keys?
proven ocean
badly lines up with the m+ dmg rotation
sometimes u have to shiv while darkest night is up
which feels so bad
and i truly believe its a dps gain to shiv in that window too
its that bad
it felt like a cool idea first i read about it
but honestly plays bad unexpectedly
wooden oriole
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
tight egret
Do we just low CP KS on gally durring the rotating line?
glass mortar
during the first one u do it before, then cloak, then its over
during the second one u can do it safely if u time it right but i havent played the fight enough to tell u how, u could check @vivid vessel vods
u always go to a set spot on his hitbox so
grim spear
If you're not aiming for an All-Star ranking, then just play FB
the last few weeks
no need to waste the team's time on this stupid thing
glass mortar
kspree is pretty safe on the fight honestly
thats like the 1 dangerous point and i think its not as dangerous as it seems i just havent done it enough
i took so much damage from kspree stagger and i was not close to death a single time the entire fight
plucky oak
I'm doing 800k dps single target and 3mil on 5 target cleave at ilvl 656. How bad am I?
glass mortar
letting my healers pad fr
800k sounds very low but its hard to give u metrics for being massively undergeared
ud probably sim as close to twice that in ur current gear, maybe not on a dummy sim tho
grim spear
800k st is low even for s1
glass mortar
ya
plucky oak
On assassination I'm doing 1.2mil st which I suspect is still shockingly low and probably an indication that I'm catastrophically bad at the game in general, but I can handle being bad in general and knowing I need to improve at a million different things.
What's really bothering me right now is just how much worse my outlaw is doing in comparison to my own play on other specs.
I keep getting tips from people who know better and yet the gap between expected performance and actual performance doesn't seem to be getting much smaller
glass mortar
logs r very helpful, or vods even
hard to give general tips other then practice and read the guides in here
!commonerrors
ornate heathBOT
Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.
frail veldt
On assassination I'm doing 1.2mil st which I suspect is still shockingly low and...
Well outlaw punishes misplay a lot
glass mortar
u cant just figure out a few key aspects or figure ur major cd window out and do decent damage
frail veldt
It doesn't have a very linear skill to DPS relationship
glass mortar
depending on ur current gear level u might allso be hurting urself with ur builds. do u have this seasons 4set?
gaunt phoenix
Law is trying everything in its power to keep adrenaline rush active cause it doesnt tick down during stealth/subterfuge
so everything about the rotation keeps AR and Vanish average cooldowns low enough to keep it active most of the time
glass mortar
all the recommended major builds in the FaQ basically require it, there is builds there that dont but they arent the major ones shown
LMAO apparently a ton of salty classic players are spam reporting people making new pandaran because they think they are all retail players just doing it to get the mount
my friend just got this and he hasnt even typed since he started leveling
glass mortar
yup
frail veldt
And they blatantly lie saying theyve done a manual review
I had a ban overturned cuz of that
I called them out and told them to show me chat logs
plucky oak
**__Common errors for Outlaw__** -> see this [answer in the FAQ](<https://discor...
Alright, upon reading this I'm finally convinced that outlaw is just not for me.
glass mortar
yea the mute shit goes crazy
frail veldt
And I could see the tone change in the responses as I went from clearly an outsourced person to an actual mod
glass mortar
in DF on my server there was a guy who was basically like the black market for getting elemental lariat
lone spear
Alright, upon reading this I'm finally convinced that outlaw is just not for me.
unfortunately you arent alone, this spec tends to scare away many people
frail veldt
Alright, upon reading this I'm finally convinced that outlaw is just not for me.
Aww haha
glass mortar
one of my friends told me about him but he doesnt whisper people or advertise because he was basically making peoples lariats for free/tips in s1 and he would just get muted every single day
by all the other JC spam reporting him
frail veldt
It's fun once you put the time in but yeah if it doesn't seem fun now it prob won't be fun later
glass mortar
they banded together to try to get him banned
wintry solar
Alright, upon reading this I'm finally convinced that outlaw is just not for me.
wait till midnight
big cooks inc
glass mortar
outlaw is a lot of effort
wintry solar
yeah
glass mortar
if it clicks for u and its fun then i highly recommend it
it is a very very very high effort spec tho
wintry solar
always has been
plucky oak
I'm in my thirties and playing on a steam deck. My ability to keep up with other players is predicated heavily on the gcd being significantly longer than 0.8s.
wintry solar
oh yeah I forgot about that
glass mortar
hows wow on steam deck in general?
plucky oak
hows wow on steam deck in general?
It's great honestly, super comfy and I can do mythics and bgs and almost never feel like it's a real handicap
lone spear
god i want a steam deck, but cant justify it since i just work from home anyway
but just being cozy in bed with my cats and playing some baldurs gate
sounds so nice
glass mortar
nice ive considered trying one for when im traveling, i definitly dont think even id be able to play this spec well with that setup tho
its definitly gunna be one of the hardest
wintry solar
ive never been comfortable playing a handheld in all honestly
glass mortar
honestly rogue in general might be rough because even sin and sub, while they have downtime, during cds ur mashing 1s gcd abilities
and it is important to get them all off asap in ur cd windows
gaunt phoenix
time to ret
plucky oak
god i want a steam deck, but cant justify it since i just work from home anyway
I bought one years ago because I was spending a lot of time at my gf's place and couldn't justify moving my desktop pc.
Now we live together and I still barely use the desktop because I'm on duty in dad mode basically 24/7 and ain't no way I'm putting that rig in my son's room.
Of course the kid killed my gaming laptop, so if I wanted to keep playing wow I had to think of something. Dusted off the steam deck and voila.
glass mortar
it doesnt need to be simple really, but having a basic bitch gcd and not having too much haste probably helps
proven ocean
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/871188656357015623/1390497639585419354/im...
deserved cookeran
glass mortar
i mean he is a filthy retailer just doing it for the mount so like
proven ocean
(i know)
plucky oak
honestly rogue in general might be rough because even sin and sub, while they ha...
Ehh sin doesn't mash cds as much and fewer procs to react to. Pushing buttons fast is no big deal if I know which ones they're gonna be and they're relatively consistent. That's not fighting game speed, that's rhythm game speed. Massive difference.
proven ocean
LMAO apparently a ton of salty classic players are spam reporting people making ...
what mount
glass mortar
u get a mount if u complete the panda starting zone in pandaria classic
on retail i believe
proven ocean
also wtf is that thought u brought up theres no way someone is that dumb as shit
glass mortar
never underestimate
classic players
the guy who got this is so afraid of getting banned he wont even take part in sales with his guild even tho they dont do rmt
proven ocean
classic players are the most stupid individuals to ever exist in this universe
gaunt phoenix
is it mop time already
glass mortar
so i dont think its a natty mute
proven ocean
classic players are the most stupid individuals to ever exist in this universe
especially reddit wow players
glass mortar
xd
glass mortar
its prepatch rn
gaunt phoenix
did you play mop rogue
glass mortar
but u can get the mount
gaunt phoenix
at the time
proven ocean
yeah
glass mortar
i actually missed the whole expac
proven ocean
but not main
gaunt phoenix
i wish i was there
proven ocean
i liked the perma sprint
glass mortar
ive heard there was a ton of very good design
proven ocean
i was a giga ass noob tho
glass mortar
some specs were close to the peak they hit in wod before legion rework
proven ocean
some specs were close to the peak they hit in wod before legion rework
very true
glass mortar
and it was the last expac of snapshotting which honestly added some very cool gameplay to specs with the trinkets they made
proven ocean
we didnt have bugs too back then, atleast not as much
or maybe i sucked too hard to even know so idk
glass mortar
im gunna be playing rogue/warlock/monk i think
not sure on my third yet
def wanna play rogue cause its the only full rogue expac i missed
proven ocean
if i play i'll play combat rogue otherwise not really
glass mortar
i loved sub pre legion
an i think wod sub was just an improved version of pandaria so
i should enjoy it
jaunty holly
what do we think best specs gonna be next patch
proven ocean
did u play sub at all in wod ross
i think only in ptr
glass mortar
proc soul cap in the opener, do zero dps for the first 20s of the fight
then suddenly u explode and 10% boss hp evaporates
proven ocean
i did play enh tho in wod
with that trinket
i had it on mythic too
was kinda cool
glass mortar
enhance was also a banger ugh
i wanna play panda enhance too
not enough time for all the specs i wanna try
glass mortar
yea thats why im considering raiding
a couple of my friends wanna start a team, they are currently raiding on classic
proven ocean
like
glass mortar
and their prog is so short and chill
proven ocean
u can easily get carried in wod back then
glass mortar
seems like vibes
glass mortar
perfect im gunna dadgamermode it
proven ocean
(considering ur not raiding early)
cuz ppl aren't high geared and stuff
atleast thats how it worked out for me
i just sneaked my way in
RL was so respectful
i kept telling him im so trash and kept dying every pull
he didnt kick me at all
glass mortar
my first expac raiding was wod so i missed it all
proven ocean
glass mortar
all gunna be new fights for me
proven ocean
ppl were so chill back then weran u have no idea
glass mortar
fights hadnt quite reached post legion raid design yet but way way higher quality then previous classics
gaunt phoenix
the age before discord
proven ocean
nothing
wintry solar
WoD CP shouldve been a thing since vanilla
proven ocean
like it was so nice
it was so great that even open world had nice interactions from ppl
glass mortar
the age before discord
i was a regular on the wow rogue forums
some things never change (being a loser) 
proven ocean
the age before discord
yeah and tiktok and shit
wow was cool as hell
people just look for dopamine nowadays xdd
junior coral
baron braunpyke in prio, can you cloak the orbs
glass mortar
we had a community forum thread and everything
going all the way from cata through legion
tricks of our trade
proven ocean
ngl even wow devs felt like u were meeting james bond or someshit
you'd get scared talking to a dev even if he shows up
now ur like
fuck devs
good old days
more snowflakes and toxic and extreme kind of shit showed up lately, u could easily join random full raid mythic runs without having to be too good
just look for any guild that advertises in trade chat looking for raider and stuff
and ur just in
easy as that
glass mortar
its just the trend of the gaming community its happening across all games tbh
all popular ones anyway
it existed back then too but it was far less mainstream for sure
glass mortar
it is for sure
proven ocean
like im surprised even +10 keys can show up with tryhards
glass mortar
i mean the gaming culture is lightyears apart
gaunt phoenix
it's a generational thing
glass mortar
the game is also much much more friendly to casuals now a day then it was back then tho
proven ocean
oh we wipe lool lets try again for 2 hours
cinder relic
Yeah it's sort of just an unfortunate byproduct of how a lot of online games get hyper optimized
proven ocean
u wont have a dipshit flaming you for 5 hours straight after wiping once because of missing an interrupt lets say
glass mortar
the accessibility of raiding, the expectation of even fairly low end players getting mythic gear from +10s by the end of the season
(not that these are bad things)
its just hard to compare to how it was back then
as a super shitter kiddo casual in wotlk and cata i got do to jackshit for pve content
glass mortar
queue for normals and heriocs and then id be capped on gear for the season
proven ocean
they're the worst kind of players in terms of gameplay
glass mortar
gatekeeping for even seeing a raid boss was much higher at that point
dawn talon
Yeah it's sort of just an unfortunate byproduct of how a lot of online games get...
idk most of the players actually approaching a game with an optimisation focused mindset tend to be chill
dawn talon
it's the people who like mind control themselves
proven ocean
like
dawn talon
and don't actually care
proven ocean
people buy that 30g mouse
that costs 10 times their salary
or someshit
like
they aren't even on a decent level
whenever i play any fps game i just use my normal wow mouse
proven ocean
ye thats fine i do that too sometimes
dawn talon
i think ppl r kinda braindead abt it though bc
in clicktiming games like cs ur mouse weight is sooo irrelevant
proven ocean
i think thats only relevant if ur a pro
glass mortar
eh i mean thats just the same in sports right
dawn talon
if ur like a hitscan andy in ow or something tracking is noticeably easier on lighter mice
glass mortar
people want the best tech so they can reach their maximum potential
even if that potential is
dawn talon
nah i think even like dia hitscan player in overwatch
glass mortar
silver in league of legends
glass mortar
why is the tennis casual (thats me) buying a 100 dollar racket that nadal uses
glass mortar
well for me it was because the strings looked hype af but its like that across everything right
sports and video games
proven ocean
i feel like buying things u like is fine
dawn talon
yea but buy things you actually like
proven ocean
you can do that thats a way to enjoy ur life i suppose
dawn talon
ppl just pretend to care
way more than they actually do
and make themselves upset
i don't rly get it
proven ocean
idk, no one should take things seriously if they aren't on a high level on anything really
dawn talon
nah i was rly dogshit at cs when i started taking it seriously
lone spear
eh, yes and no
glass mortar
if u have fun taking it seriously u should do that regardless of ur skill level
lone spear
^ this
glass mortar
nothing wrong with making urself 20% stronger baseline even if ur only reaching 50% of a specs potential
but if its making u angry
or upset
its a video game
why are u paying to do this to urself
lone spear
thats where people cant draw the line tho
proven ocean
like if i remember correctly literally any game u could do whatever u want play with anyone and its gonna be alright
now u have these specific things where
does he have enough rio?
is he good enough
is he geared enough
is his wifi good and he wont dc after 5 runs?
upbeat tundra
all of that goes away with a que system instead of lfg
proven ocean
does he eat healthy so that he wont just sleep mid key and alt f4 afterwards
like
xdd
upbeat tundra
the problem is lfg
dawn talon
nah
upbeat tundra
the problem is letting other people decide if you get to play the game or not
dawn talon
bc if i get ppl who annoy me in queue
proven ocean
clush im not talking about wow im just talking in general
upbeat tundra
its cringe and no other game has this system
dawn talon
in any game
proven ocean
like
dawn talon
i just afk the game
proven ocean
all kinds of games
lone spear
i play league w my iron friends sometimes
i think a lot of people play wow like this
proven ocean
back then you can do anything kinda
dawn talon
like rn in overwatch
haughty wigeon
i click things
dawn talon
maybe 30% of my lobbies actually go through
lone spear
its just lfg is inherently a filter thing
dawn talon
w/o someone having the game remade
haughty wigeon
and do goodge damahe
upbeat tundra
competitive games have been hyper meta driven forever
dawn talon
bc they don't like our supp player's hero pool
lone spear
queueable m+ is the only way to fix it
dawn talon
or they don't like our tank bc they griefed him 3 weeks ago
or they don't like the map
upbeat tundra
queueable m+ is the only way to fix it
this
lone spear
but idk if they'll ever do that
proven ocean
competitive games have been hyper meta driven forever
covid fucked it up ngl
dawn talon
queued mythic+ would be so insanely dogshit
upbeat tundra
you cannot let other people decide if you get to play the game
lone spear
nor if it is worthy tradeoff
proven ocean
esports sparked up so high since then
upbeat tundra
a que system is the only way
upbeat tundra
it works in fellowship it can work in wow
lone spear
ehhhh, its lessened for sure
proven ocean
i feel like covid brought in alot of introverts
dawn talon
ehhhh, its lessened for sure
is it ?
proven ocean
and thats by a really large %
dawn talon
go look na master league games
50% of games u ahve insanely obvious soft int
bc ppl dislike eachother in medium elo
and have egos
it will be the same in wow
upbeat tundra
ill take that over sitting in dornogol not being able to play
lone spear
that game is PvP and inherently competitive
proven ocean
wow is full of ego everywhere you go
dawn talon
ill take that over sitting in dornogol not being able to play
ur just sitting in game not able to play
xd?
lone spear
wow is PvE and has intrinsic goals
upbeat tundra
i will take toxicity and everything that goes with a que system over not being able to play at all
lfg is dogshit
lone spear
i can time 10s with 2 people doing half my damage
dawn talon
u can't play at all in a game where u get soft inted either ?
lone spear
i can very rarely carry a game against 5 other people of equal skill in league
proven ocean
lfg is dogshit
find people to play with
lone spear
if half my team is inting
proven ocean
its hard to do that tho
dawn talon
ye man just play the game enemy eve is +4lvls +3items u can walk out of ur fountain?
upbeat tundra
find people to play with
i refuse, and lfg led to this
dawn talon
ok
upbeat tundra
im not resubbing until a solo que exists
dawn talon
then play something else?
upbeat tundra
i am
glass mortar
it's the same thing in queue systems
i feel like the problem is that 99% of games with "queue systems" ur gunna compare to are pvp games
glass mortar
and pvp lends itself to this form of toxicity in a WHOLE nother way then pve imo
dawn talon
i feel like the problem is that 99% of games with "queue systems" ur gunna compa...
people take raider.io competitively
glass mortar
sure
proven ocean
he played it alot mkore than me
upbeat tundra
ive been hard addicted to poe
proven ocean
i feel like the game respects your efforts
lone spear
i've been playing osrs alot lately
i legit just started playing too
trying an ironman
lone spear
cause i love the idea of it
dawn talon
any time you have a rating for players
proven ocean
ALOT ALOT
dawn talon
people are going to hard ego
lone spear
i think sodapoppin hopping on it
proven ocean
sodapoppin started playing osrs and u have no idea how HUGE that means to osrs
proven ocean
bro
glass mortar
i dont know if i fully agree a queue system for m+ would remove toxicity, i could see it being an avenue of access that reduced it for alot of players tho if they did it right
glass mortar
i think pvp alone lends itself to this toxic mindset more then pve and basically every queue system out there is for pvp
so its hard to compare
lone spear
wym i have no idea I JUST SAID IT 
proven ocean
ngl wink i've been watching these streamers all my life, and everytime i see them play a big game it explodes like a nuke bomb
proven ocean
wym i have no idea I JUST SAID IT <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
I KNOW IT WAS JUST A RANDOM WORD I DECIDED TO SHOOT OK
upbeat tundra
i dont know if i fully agree a queue system for m+ would remove toxicity, i coul...
doesnt matter, m+ que system lets you login to the character you want and get the opportunity to play the game the same as everyone else. it lets you get out of dornogol and do your rotation. everything else is irrelevant. every competitive game from the past 15 years has a que system. nobody else should be responsible for whether you get to play the game or not. lfg is dogshit.
proven ocean
same with minecraft speed runs, mainly from xqc/forsen competition btw
and gta RP
from xqc
proven ocean
guess how amongus became so famous
glass mortar
the actual pvm content is quite fun
proven ocean
guess how amongus became so famous
xqc again LOL
glass mortar
and theres some good challenges out there
dawn talon
guess how amongus became so famous
among us was offlinetv
lone spear
yea, i mean its why i think GW2 recently started sponsoring streamers to play their game
they understand thats the best advertisement
proven ocean
among us was offlinetv
its not even close to what xqc did to amongus
dawn talon
disguisedtoast clips with kyedae
lone spear
HOLY
proven ocean
xqc was like
dawn talon
xqc got big viewers on among us in offlinetv lobbies
proven ocean
having over 100k vieewers
dawn talon
when he did the eliminar thing
proven ocean
in amongus
dawn talon
while getting farmed by toast
but they were already making among us the biggest category
whenever they played
proven ocean
xqc got big viewers on among us in offlinetv lobbies
idk who that is bro but xqc was the biggest streamer at the time btw
dawn talon
before xqc joined
dawn talon
if u want xqc effect i think gta5 rp is better example
proven ocean
dude
lone spear
yea has like pokimane and shit
proven ocean
i honestly dont know any of them lmao
theres no way they're as big as xqc
100k viewers on twitch live is crazy insane
thats ALOT of people
to put this as an example btw
i get 80-120 viewers on twitch
but
my vods are like
2-3k viewers
live viewers are ALOT if they're 100k+
glass mortar
xqc was not getting 100k viewers6 years ago
we are talking about ancient times
that was the roster over the years
proven ocean
kyedae peak viewers
theres no way ur comparing kyedae to xqc btw
proven ocean
kyedae isn't even half of xqc's fanbase
glass mortar
idk the last 5 tho
dawn talon
ur too online man
proven ocean
bro
dawn talon
i work at a school and i have had to listen to
proven ocean
xqc reached 330k viewers
dawn talon
so much discussion of kyedae
dawn talon
she is infinitely more relevant to the people who were playing among us in 2019
proven ocean
theres absolutely no way 
thats so cooked
he even got a 100m dollar contract i think or someshit
right after the amongus meta
glass mortar
xqc has exploded alot
dawn talon
michael reeves & disguisedtoast were legit perma yt trending #1
glass mortar
i wont disagree he is far larger then any of these names now
probably even in the last 5 years
dawn talon
2018-2020
dawn talon
and toast had a big platform on twitch aswell
hollow temple
yep
dawn talon
sodacuckin did also play the game ye
dawn talon
but i just refuse to acknowledge anything that mouthbreathing fuck does
glass mortar
????? wtf
proven ocean
????????
glass mortar
why the h8
proven ocean
wtf
glass mortar
sodapoppin is like the most chill streamer in existence now a day
hollow temple
soda is a g
glass mortar
onlyfangs was a content goldmine that shit was sooooo good
proven ocean
@dawn talon
frank finch
lone spear
maybe oswalb is a veibae simp 🤔
proven ocean
thats exactly what happened and i 100% agree to this
hollow temple
insanely annoying twofaced unfunny bastard
ur 
is showin m8
proven ocean
kyedae is nowhere mentioned btw
besides kyedae mostly got famous because of her boyfriend or someshit
atleast thats where i knew her
from TenZ
the best valorant player few years ago
idk if hes still the best tho
glass mortar
FUK
dawn talon
nah tenz is washed af
dawn talon
valorant so dogshit now tho i cant blame him
covert kestrel
Weran there's like a billion more Thai places that are open
glass mortar
bich i cant afford to live in nyc
glass mortar
i just commute there to work
hollow temple
ross have u watched soda try playing rs
glass mortar
😠
hollow temple
glass mortar
i only have 4 thai places nearby
covert kestrel
he should've went for cs2
He was washed in cs
proven ocean
he has to learn
covert kestrel
i just commute there to work
Jersey?
proven ocean
but his ego wont make him try maybe idk
dawn talon
he was just rly depressed over his cs career stagnating
hollow temple
he died to the dark wizards
glass mortar
nah NY i couldnt live with myself in jersey
proven ocean
ross have u watched soda try playing rs
no LOL what happened
hollow temple
proven ocean
he died to the dark wizards
AHA AHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH
THATTS
WHAT HAPPENED TO MEYEARS AGO
glass mortar
ROSS IT WAS SO GOOD
proven ocean
WHEN IWAS A KID
glass mortar
IT WAS LITERALLY
proven ocean
AHAHAHHAHAHA
glass mortar
THE CLASSIC
glass mortar
I SAW THE CLIP
proven ocean
LOLOLOLOL
BRO
NO WAY
THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME WHEN I WAS A CHILD
I WAS SO SCARED
lone spear
dying to dark wizards is a rite of passage
lone spear
shit happened to me in 2008 bro
lone spear
then i said "dogshit game" and havent touched it till now
glass mortar
gdi
hollow temple
proven ocean
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
