gaslighting again arent we
#outlaw
vivid vessel
proven ocean
I mean he’s sending bad words
glass mortar
probably cause outlaw is noticably weaker on ptr then it is on live compared to most specs (it literally is 17% weaker) and u are posting shit like "outlaw is op" which i assume was a meme but
like do u really care
u will just play whatever rogue spec is strongest
thats fine, more power to u
zac only plays outlaw
so he probably cares abit more about this then u do
glass mortar
sure i said its probably a meme
but u argued with him for like 45m
like it wasnt a meme
proven ocean
?
glass mortar
idk
proven ocean
Ur lost i think here
haughty wigeon
if he had all buffs
sudden fulcrum
is Zeross like a master troll? never see anyone so good at making other people mad
proven ocean
It wasnt the argument
haughty wigeon
that doesnt = outlaw good
proven ocean
Ur just trolling rn
proven ocean
that he could gape the arcane mage on voerals
This @glass mortar
glass mortar
yea def zac crashing out rn not at all tied to the earlier discussion where u said law was op
fossil lintel
is Zeross like a master troll? never see anyone so good at making other people ...
I always assumed no one took him seriously
haughty wigeon
its funny dont get me wrong
vivid vessel
r2
haughty wigeon
im enjoying it
proven ocean
yea def zac crashing out rn not at all tied to the earlier discussion where u sa...
When did i say that ur just lying
haughty wigeon
but like
fossil lintel
Bro asks chatgpt for what to say on a discord call ffs
late swallow
who is r2 annoying guy?
vivid vessel
im gonna get gaslight by the 2 master gaslitgher
haughty wigeon
theres a point where its start being silly
me
cause i did the sin of
being logical
vivid vessel
stupid
proven ocean
Zac u need to relax
haughty wigeon
like
proven ocean
?
haughty wigeon
defending people = saying what happened i guess
vivid vessel
Zac u need to relax
passively calling people dumbass by deturned ways
isnt better
than directly calling people dumbass
just saying
glass mortar
that he could gape the arcane mage on voerals
i mean ?
haughty wigeon
mewo as well
glass mortar
this was directly before the pic
fossil lintel
Acting like dips? I feel old, need to Google that one
glass mortar
i mean why just interject if u didnt even know
proven ocean
passively calling people dumbass by deturned ways
Ur the one calling me a dumbass 24/7 i never said that word
haughty wigeon
its so painfully obvious that outlaw sucks balls rn
proven ocean
And wdym by passively zac
haughty wigeon
and zeross is hoping specs
proven ocean
Im confused
haughty wigeon
if yall actually bvelieve ragebait
glass mortar
ok true
haughty wigeon
then frankly thats more of a you issue
glass mortar
ross do u agree its obvious that law sucks balls on ptr?
cause tired thinks ur memeing
thats not the energy ive gotten from u
haughty wigeon
okay now we're being to literal
i think outlaw sucks balls
but at the same time
i think its going into better places
rn
proven ocean
It doesnt suck i agree that its doing good dmg for it to be competitive with the normal specs
vivid vessel
this is litteraly how you started the conversation btw, didnt ask you anything aswell
vivid vessel
I can call you a dumbass all i want when you start like that
proven ocean
this is litteraly how you started the conversation btw, didnt ask you anything a...
? U tell me skill issue everyday why u mad
haughty wigeon
gotta complain about something
proven ocean
I can call you a dumbass all i want when you start like that
Weird
slate forge
Outlaw isn’t going in any places no patch notes don’t expect any before release either
vivid vessel
? U tell me skill issue everyday why u mad
ye for silly memes, this is obviouslyt not silly memes
so
dont act
haughty wigeon
Outlaw isn’t going in any places no patch notes don’t expect any before release ...
i mean
glass mortar
i mean ur saying "its so funny u guys r taking a meme seriously when outlaw is not good on ptr" and nowhere in here in the last few weeks have i gotten the impression ross thinks law is weak on the ptr
glass mortar
very weird interjection
proven ocean
Its a silly meme wdym
vivid vessel
ok
glass mortar
"you guys are getting memed on" meanwhile ross: outlaw is fine and good
haughty wigeon
since killing spree got changed
haughty wigeon
"you guys are getting memed on" meanwhile ross: outlaw is fine and good
if your taking zeross
seriously
in any regards
proven ocean
U think ur genuinely bad at the game zac yes or no
glass mortar
if hes being serious then yes i am taking him seriously?
proven ocean
U think ur genuinely bad at the game zac yes or no
Ofc not
haughty wigeon
a you issue
glass mortar
ok
sudden fulcrum
inland acorn
It got changed to a point where its actually anti-synergy with its own hero talents
slate forge
We have half a dev that is doing a whole new dh spec the amount of hopium is amazing but I give up
inland acorn
Tf you mean better
proven ocean
Why are u mad at skill issue and send bad words 24/7
gleaming lagoon
complaining about balance two weeks into ptr is wild work
haughty wigeon
It got changed to a point where its actually anti-synergy with its own hero tale...
i honestly think thats more of a exaggeration than anything
but ya
proven ocean
complaining about balance two weeks into ptr is wild work
Ikr
inland acorn
i honestly think thats more of a exaggeration than anything
⁉️
glass mortar
complaining about someone saying ur spec is op when its actual dogshit on ptr =/= complaining that shit wont be balanced on ptr
proven ocean
i honestly think thats more of a exaggeration than anything
I agree
vivid vessel
every regard
glass mortar
but ok
vivid vessel
only point its better
glass mortar
yall wildin
vivid vessel
is that it doesnt kill you
proven ocean
complaining about balance two weeks into ptr is wild work
True
haughty wigeon
and it doesnt make you barf irl
red zinc
in fairness they are doing balancing right now for whatever reason
Might as well complain
royal bane
That's a big point, sucks that it's plagued with issues but we can hope they will fix them
haughty wigeon
its not like its going to ship out rn
gleaming lagoon
complaining about someone saying ur spec is op when its actual dogshit on ptr =/...
agree, wasn't refering to you or zac
red zinc
I have doubts
haughty wigeon
its clearly
going to get buffed
due to huge underpforming number issue
but again
inland acorn
i have no doubts more changes to outlaw is coming either
Everyone said same
haughty wigeon
damage numbers in ptr
mighty pivot
The whole point of PTR is to test things and give feedback (complain)
inland acorn
When they showed trickster talents
haughty wigeon
is irrelevant af
vivid vessel
due to huge underpforming number issue
?
inland acorn
with this shit
slate forge
That would require them to make updates and they don’t do that for rogue
vivid vessel
some guy said it was op even
haughty wigeon
cause zeross is being a asshole to you
vivid vessel
i read it here
haughty wigeon
you know
haughty wigeon
what i mean
fossil lintel
Question: how far behind is fatebound for aoe on ptr given that trickster got the short end?
haughty wigeon
and you know it
vivid vessel
you arent wrong
glass mortar
Question: how far behind is fatebound for aoe on ptr given that trickster got th...
probably similar amount to s1 right now i think
glass mortar
no hard numbers on it
mighty pivot
damage numbers in ptr
Damage numbers affect how a spec plays though (ability priority for instance). It's not as simple as having a static rotation and only changing numbers
glass mortar
was like 5-6% iirc
haughty wigeon
im not gonna tell people not to be mad, by all means outlaw sucks damage wise in my opinion unless your stacking a outlaw only comp or something
but
like
its only week 3 of ptr
its gonna getr buffed
lime lake
its joever
royal bane
whole season
I was kinda expecting to have another season with it so I guess I'm happy it's getting looked at even if it's not all that great
haughty wigeon
Damage numbers affect how a spec plays though (ability priority for instance). I...
i play ret man
we suck at the start of every season
but we always get buffed
its not that deep
inland acorn
I was kinda expecting to have another season with it so I guess I'm happy it's g...
I have a sneaky feeling
They're looking at it
Because dawnbreaker is coming back
And since we're pretty much forced to play trickster in aoe, they had to fix it
haughty wigeon
dungeon roster
proven ocean
@vivid vessel love u zac dont want to lose a friend
inland acorn
Otherwise you would have outlaws falling through ship
haughty wigeon
actually sucks balls
red zinc
<@352916297262301194> love u zac dont want to lose a friend
ill be your friend
haughty wigeon
<@352916297262301194> love u zac dont want to lose a friend
i think both of you should take a break from discord for a second and come back some hours later
with a fresh head
proven ocean
ill be your friend
Ok 
lime lake
i think both of you should take a break from discord for a second and come back ...
no u
haughty wigeon
lime lake
stop taking my entertainment
vivid vessel
i think both of you should take a break from discord for a second and come back ...
i mean i need to sleep
red zinc
Cant even argue about coffee with me cause ive never drank coffee in my life
vivid vessel
fuck you
lime lake
slate forge
Rets gotten more/better changes In single patches than rogue has gotten in expansions of course you can hope to get changes eventually we can’t
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> love u zac dont want to lose a friend
brother stfu you well know in 10 min we will just be fine again
haughty wigeon
Rets gotten more/better changes In single patches than rogue has gotten in expan...
thats subjective af, but not gonna open that can of worms here
proven ocean
i mean i need to sleep
Take a nap and remember how i got gapped in ToTT by that assa rouge
late swallow
vivid vessel
you know
red zinc
Mfs really hardcapped unholy
vivid vessel
im actually happy
vivid vessel
about the changes we got this week
vivid vessel
cause it goes
haughty wigeon
they hardcapped unholy
glass mortar
was good change!
proven ocean
about the changes we got this week
Me too
vivid vessel
where i want it to go
glass mortar
babysteps
haughty wigeon
and made its only source of uncap be
vivid vessel
its like
haughty wigeon
fucking dnd
gleaming lagoon
Mfs really hardcapped unholy
cool, fricc unholy
vivid vessel
slow changes
late swallow
Unholy can’t go omega giga quadratic anymore?
haughty wigeon
vivid vessel
but if we continue like this
at htis rate
they fix trickster
in 10 weeks
which is alright
red zinc
Unholy can’t go omega giga quadratic anymore?
Wounds only hit 7 mobs max now
glass mortar
dks r very very upsetti rn cause blizzard is doubling down on grip raid buff
red zinc
glass mortar
way more upsetti then us i think
haughty wigeon
they are
late swallow
Wounds only hit 7 mobs max now
BASED
haughty wigeon
cause no one likes wounds
glass mortar
and unholy lost its turbo niche of being the goat on 30 target pulls
haughty wigeon
theyre listening to
haughty wigeon
fucking fotmer mdi pushers with unholy
nova sinew
I grip my shit every day I’m not even a dk
late swallow
Ready for the bicepspump bald vod
proven ocean
in 10 weeks
I agree, i think ks needs shorter cd (same as live) “but” and shorter duration than live even
glass mortar
right
vivid vessel
i mean
red zinc
Who cares about rogue changes
glass mortar
new kspree is so cool
glass mortar
why cant i do it with old cd
vivid vessel
ks feels so fucking good when its fast
glass mortar
and like a 1.6s cast
red zinc
So long as they gut udk and ret ill be happy
vivid vessel
idk why they dont go that way ngl
red zinc
fuck those classes no cappy
glass mortar
as soon as realz floated increasing the cd i was like "but the new kspree is so cool cant we just make it shorter"
haughty wigeon
So long as they gut udk and ret ill be happy
then you must be happy
glass mortar
why are they always like this
haughty wigeon
cause both are gutted rn
glass mortar
vivid vessel
as soon as realz floated increasing the cd i was like "but the new kspree is so ...
ye right
red zinc
cause both are gutted rn
Great day
vivid vessel
i dont really get it
haughty wigeon
i forget whats the channel for eyebeam
haughty wigeon
or fist of fury baseline
haughty wigeon
cause both of those specs get so much free haste
haughty wigeon
that its like half of their actual channel
glass mortar
FoF is 4s baseline scaling twice with haste (increased damage and reduced cast time)
covert kestrel
some poeple (guy) will just say its fine
Longer cast time = more time to shill for the shareholders
glass mortar
also the current main WW build has a 100% increase to its cast time most of the time
vivid vessel
ye
glass mortar
from its hero tree buffs
vivid vessel
the cast is like 1/2s
glass mortar
so its like a 1.6s cast
vivid vessel
and tbh
it feels horrible
when you cast fof
outside of the buff thing
so
maybe
glass mortar
very fast very hard hitting
haughty wigeon
but i do know eyebeam
vivid vessel
slow ass spec
haughty wigeon
has short cast time
cause a shit ton of free haste they get
and they have a talent that increases the channel of eyebeam
for more damage
and it appears every now and then
i dont think they run it rn tho
cinder relic
some poeple (guy) will just say its fine
I don't say that
haughty wigeon
unless its nomovers
vivid vessel
I don't say that
it was just a funny poke
yoiu do tho
or
guy thoughts on long channel vs short
haughty wigeon
i really dont think we'll see a baseline channel reduction
proven ocean
You honestly do sometimes guy
haughty wigeon
frankly i rather see haste becomes useful for outlaw
vivid vessel
i really dont think we'll see a baseline channel reduction
ok but why
cinder relic
It shouldn't be as long as it is rn
proven ocean
No meme
cinder relic
That's what I think
haughty wigeon
ok but why
cause havoc doesnt have something like that
haughty wigeon
they have haste reduce its channel
red zinc
guy thinks it should be changed
proven ocean
they have haste reduce its channel
No pls
haughty wigeon
its like
red zinc
No further discussion necessary
haughty wigeon
4 seconds
red zinc
no cappy
haughty wigeon
without haste
proven ocean
Stop with haste shit
vivid vessel
they get free haste up the ass
ok so ?
proven ocean
Its cooked
vivid vessel
its lower
fossil lintel
I feel like it's a miss on design to be honestly, you have a class that has been the highest APM and uptime requirements in the game for 2 years, it will attract people who enjoy that.
Then you force them to use a button that is at least 3gcds of waiting. Feels like a kick in the nuts for the gameplay design they set up in the past 2 years.
glass mortar
brother its like 6 gcd
proven ocean
??
glass mortar
we are fast af
cinder relic
I've literally said the entire time that ks new channel time is too long
glass mortar
but i get what ur saying and agree
haughty wigeon
but think about it
glass mortar
i wish it was 3 gcd
vivid vessel
I feel like it's a miss on design to be honestly, you have a class that has been...
its 2 times that
fossil lintel
Yeah, it's 0.5s per CP which is half a GCD per cp
cinder relic
I don't really get the point of misrepresenting what I'm saying
proven ocean
I've literally said the entire time that ks new channel time is too long
Honestly the cd is too long too
mighty pivot
there is also the fact that rn you want to break KS early meaning if you supercharge it you just waste the supercharge
haughty wigeon
adren increases damage base on hasste %
and thus it reduces channel of killing spree
red zinc
Honestly the cd is too long too
Longer cd would be valid so long as they compensated the lost stacks / form uptime
vivid vessel
I don't really get the point of misrepresenting what I'm saying
wht i meant to say is, if anyone would defend a longer cast it would be you, but even you dont !
proven ocean
I don't really get the point of misrepresenting what I'm saying
He just meant u can have rare cooked takes on certain changes, i do too
vivid vessel
so
fossil lintel
If you cast it at 6 CP it's going to be 0.4 X 6 which is 3 gcd
inland acorn
Yeah, it's 0.5s per CP which is half a GCD per cp
slate forge
Be nice if any of our secondary stats did shit
vivid vessel
they will change it lol. it's literally proven to be better to cancel it
ok well
solo
glass mortar
ok but solo
proven ocean
And cd is too lobg nro
vivid vessel
they have a template to fix that one
haughty wigeon
ya im pretty sure more changes incoming
glass mortar
i buff it by 30%
proven ocean
Bro
red zinc
ok but solo
vivid vessel
and its not lowering the cast
its just, every second, the damage increase by x %
thats their template
red zinc
aaaaæeeeou aooou
vivid vessel
they have that on fof
glass mortar
just make sure we direct our energies towards the right fixes and give our feedback and upvotes on the forum 🥰
vivid vessel
and everyu cast or what
gleaming lagoon
and any chance we get a new mastery? The joke run for too long already
red zinc
just make sure we direct our energies towards the right fixes and give our feedb...
Im directing my energy into getting a tan and turning my phone off for the two weeks im gone
haughty wigeon
they can just buff mastery at this point
red zinc
Yall fix it for me thanks
wintry solar
Sick ptr notes
fossil lintel
and any chance we get a new mastery? The joke run for too long already
No please let mastery be dead
red zinc
haughty wigeon
buff it to stupid levels
royal bane
new mastery increase killing spree duration
vivid vessel
ok honestly
haughty wigeon
like how they did for vdh
gleaming lagoon
No please let mastery be dead
why
vivid vessel
its the first time that like
lone spear
Sick ptr notes
undoccumented change to tier, is good
vivid vessel
i feel everyone agrees
red zinc
zac
slate forge
Long cast time disrupts the rotation flow doesn’t do the damage to feel impactful as a “cd” sure it doesn’t kill you but it doesn’t feel as good to press even
red zinc
have you done a key with the mastery trinket yet
vivid vessel
so i feel like there is no way
vivid vessel
it wont get changed that way
wintry solar
undoccumented change to tier, is good
What is it
vivid vessel
ks duration lowered, and tirkcster going above 4 stacks
haughty wigeon
Cause I like 40% vers
cursed
lone spear
What is it
vivid vessel
like these 2 things
red zinc
@vivid vessel have you used delve mastery trinket on ptr yet
vivid vessel
next week
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> have you used delve mastery trinket on ptr yet
im not using hc things
cause it wont be good
red zinc
bro
vivid vessel
so no point
wintry solar
Sweet
vivid vessel
its just fake timmy
vivid vessel
ok its like extreme case
haughty wigeon
vivid vessel
op delves trinkets on ptr
haughty wigeon
energy drink
vivid vessel
are litteraly
haughty wigeon
i never got it
red zinc
bro its ptr do funny shit
vivid vessel
not getting like this to live
haughty wigeon
bullshit
haughty wigeon
running with fucking heroic house of cards
gaunt phoenix
this 2pc is lowkey stronger than the 4pc
red zinc
this 2pc is lowkey stronger than the 4pc
Give us 200% effectiveness coup and my life is realz’
vivid vessel
this 2pc is lowkey stronger than the 4pc
i mean same for fb
vivid vessel
is interestring
like i feel like outlaw damage is super swingy on ptr
fossil lintel
Give us 200% effectiveness coup and my life is realz’
Give us 8 CP couo
vivid vessel
and having a way to keep your cd trinket
for when you have stars align
is kinda interesting
like oh you finally havbe coup + all buffs + vanish
thats when you send trinket
gg
do dam ?
maybe idk
red zinc
out of everything im shocked there isnt one of the rtb things in the tree yet
glass mortar
i like the trinket ye
red zinc
Like the s3 tier or this one
glass mortar
u could also just use it on cd to have a agi trinket with a decent proc
it is underbudgeted if u do that tho
vivid vessel
Like the s3 tier or this one
they should have reworked slieght idk
just let sleight give you + 1 always
outlaw feels better that way
when you have more baseline buffs
glass mortar
hey that was my idea 😠
lone spear
Making outlaw a cd spec but you dont know when you get the cd
this what a i been saying, i dont think outlaw is fun because of its shitty damage profile, its fun despite it
vivid vessel
cause then you always have a resource buff
fossil lintel
Turn slight into s3 tier from df
vivid vessel
instead of getting fucked over half the time
red zinc
Man
lone spear
give us a fucking CD that does something. killing spree legit could have been that
red zinc
ive depleted so many keys these last two weeks due to the bugs since 11.1.7
How did you push keys in this state zac
haughty wigeon
give us a fucking CD that does something. killing spree legit could have been th...
nope
haughty wigeon
outlaw does not do wqell with cds
gleaming lagoon
give us a fucking CD that does something. killing spree legit could have been th...
yes pls
royal bane
I think they'll be too focused on set and ks to pay attention to our very real rtb buff issues this season
glass mortar
outlaws thing is not having cds so
lone spear
ok but ur comparing completely different things
haughty wigeon
and they gave dradblades cdr
glass mortar
ud be making it not outlaw if u gave it a real cd
lone spear
why does everything have to be on RB
haughty wigeon
and removed dreadblades
glass mortar
which most people will not support
lone spear
where is that in the rulebook
haughty wigeon
cause thats the main engine of outlaw
vivid vessel
its still less deaht than normal people
lone spear
OHHH MAIN ENGINE
vivid vessel
cause i play outlaw
haughty wigeon
dreadblades wasnt on restlessblades
lone spear
literally making up arbitrary rules
lone spear
for not having good game design
haughty wigeon
im telling your historical facts
dreadblades sucked until they added greed to it
and even then it was rough
glass mortar
i mean every rule in the game is arbritrary its a game
personally, i agree linear damage pattern is bad design if u dont tune it to be "stronger" then cd specs
in a vacuum
but people like it regardless so
haughty wigeon
dreadblades sucked until they made it pairable with flag and gave flag cdr
glass mortar
or outlaw players anyway
red zinc
i die only from ks
Dude
red zinc
ive been crashing in ml everywhere
lone spear
i forgot tired from work is the ragebaiter from before
haughty wigeon
cause outlaw had so many ways to proc full combo points anyways and dreadblades killed you
lone spear
ive been baited
gleaming lagoon
the CD doesn't have to feed into the engine or do much for gameplay. Just give power on a fixed window so the damage profile improves
haughty wigeon
okay tell me
fossil lintel
Is tired from work zeross?
lone spear
how about killing spree is our version of convoke? it just does big damage and we look cool
proven ocean
Is tired from work zeross?
?
lone spear
it doesnt need to be more complex
it doesnt need 50 different attatchments to the spec
gleaming lagoon
literally 3mins cd, 30% more damage outside of restless blades would be an improvement
proven ocean
brother
lone spear
sigh obtuseness for no reason
vivid vessel
literally 3mins cd, 30% more damage outside of restless blades would be an impro...
ok
you are cooked
going in my blocklist
glass mortar
i mean u guys know that 99% of the players in here arent gunna support having a major cd
proven ocean
literally 3mins cd, 30% more damage outside of restless blades would be an impro...
ok
you are cooked
going in my blocklist
red zinc
yu are blocked 
haughty wigeon
to call you a ragebaiter
glass mortar
most people who end up playing law play it because they like the linear damage pattern
vivid vessel
dont care
lone spear
its the same thing when u said "just remove crackshot"
glass mortar
and not feeling like they need a major impact cd to do good damage
lone spear
like if they did that and changed nothing
proven ocean
if both me and zac are saying ur cooked you have to be the most 
cooked ass mothercooker of all time
fossil lintel
I think people who stuck to outlaw this long kind of enjoy the flat damage profile
vivid vessel
mothercooker
lone spear
"nah u cant do that"
vivid vessel
thats a nice one actually
haughty wigeon
like if they did that and changed nothing
you mean the meme shit i said while zac and zeross was going at it?
red zinc
I think people who stuck to outlaw this long kind of enjoy the flat damage profi...
The only flat thing I enjoy in life
vivid vessel
imma call you that now ross
haughty wigeon
despite multiple times saying
vivid vessel
too late
haughty wigeon
crackshot will probably never leave nor it should leave
vivid vessel
mine now
red zinc
(if you a man with a big dumpy hmu)
red zinc
crackshot will probably never leave nor it should leave
gone tomorro
lone spear
they havent reworked dk 50 times
haughty wigeon
especially cant be removed without hueg sweeping changes to the spec
lone spear
this xpac
wintry solar
crackshot will probably never leave nor it should leave
It will
wintry solar
Nothing ever stays forever
fossil lintel
I like flat damage profiles because it feels engaging the entire time, you try to play sub and you can make coffee in the downtime and still do optimal dps
lone spear
they could legit just not have kspree tied to trickster
red zinc
replaced with cuckshot when they turn outlaw into the support spec it was always meant to be
haughty wigeon
like idk what we're even arguing about anymore
haughty wigeon
okay what would you attach to trickster in its place
glass mortar
i mean u guys r being silly
glass mortar
the core of the idea is "give outlaw a big cd damage amp" and work the rest of the stuff around it
argue with that
fossil lintel
they could legit just not have kspree tied to trickster
We've been saying that since beta though
haughty wigeon
cause your not making hero tree changes to one spec
nope you have to keep 2 specs in mind
haughty wigeon
and their triggers have to be simliar so the hero tree isnt fucked or wonky between specs
and have the same weight design wise
wintry solar
What?
glass mortar
ok its replaced with blade rush which now does live kspree damage and is given for free from the tree
idk why argue this way
lone spear
yea like
haughty wigeon
a good example is how the made lights prison more of a wake of ashes copy so both can share a trigger for herald and same thing ghoes for eye of tyr for templar
glass mortar
they arent trying to actually do the redesign, they are saying they want a major cd for law to give it a cd profile
lone spear
ur argument is "i cant fix it so therefore keep the ability the same"
glass mortar
thats what u should argue with
fossil lintel
Honestly trickster should've been themed around stealth, what is more trickstery than that?
lone spear
he doesnt want to cause i'm right
fossil lintel
And it fits all specs of rogue
lone spear
and we will see in the new tier
haughty wigeon
your not tho
glass mortar
well idk if id say u are right
haughty wigeon
im saying
lone spear
with the downtime and the burst phases
glass mortar
many people pick law because they like the linear damage no major cd (as i said beforE)
lone spear
outlaw will either be insanely tuned to compensate, or we will be depression mode
glass mortar
so what ur saying is unpopular
haughty wigeon
the spec did not mesh well with burst buttons
glass mortar
even if its arguably better design
(i would agree its better design)
theres more to the fun of a game then just design tho
haughty wigeon
and frankly people dont play outlaw to have ab urst profile despite it being the better profile by a shit ton. they play it cause its consistent
fossil lintel
Yeah flat damage is the worse damage pattern we can have. But we enjoy it.
lone spear
ok but just because it failed with 2 abilities that had flawed designs to begin with
doesnt mean we pack it up and go home
glass mortar
no the entire idea of giving us a major cd would be a transformation of what people like about it
the problem is not the cds werent good enough
haughty wigeon
i shilled the flag and dreadblade combo to fucking death
glass mortar
the problem is most outlaw players dont want a major cd
lone spear
idk, i think "most" just want something cool
haughty wigeon
in a seasonal patch and not a expansion beta
lone spear
but KiR is a type of CD
wintry solar
That's such a slippery slope
glass mortar
it also would reduce the spectrum of specs in the game abit
lone spear
even if its super weak
glass mortar
so we are just another 2m cd spec now
like all the othersa
our own class has this spec, its called sin
haughty wigeon
sin and sub and outlaw
glass mortar
i like having differed profiles
lone spear
i mean dam profile homogenization is a problem
lone spear
but also being the only spec left that doesnt play the same game as the others
haughty wigeon
i agree
lone spear
is also problematic
haughty wigeon
lets brain storm
gleaming lagoon
i like having differed profiles
that's cool in theory but it's not when one of the profiles is objectively worse than others
haughty wigeon
first i think they should bring back dreadblades
glass mortar
we have one of the most unique profiles in the game rn, sometimes specs will spend a season or two as linear, but they almost always go back to major cd
chilly atlas
one day all classes will be same with different skins
fossil lintel
Yeah, please if you dislike flat damage there's plenty of specs you can go to, like sub
haughty wigeon
remove fth
cinder relic
There's a few specs that are flat af
haughty wigeon
and remove opp
glass mortar
that's cool in theory but it's not when one of the profiles is objectively worse...
yea it is, but in video games people play for fun u can have space for "objectively worse profiles" if u design right
cinder relic
A lot of DF, enhance was giga flat wasn't it
haughty wigeon
dreadblade has a niche of making your generators do max cp
and then
put greed
so every spender does more cleave aoe burst damage
upbeat tundra
i want ks channel to be way shorter, and adr to not tick down when mounted or during mandatory teleport things in keys
haughty wigeon
restlessblades removed and ar now has the same cd as dreadblades to stack
royal bane
A lot of DF, enhance was giga flat wasn't it
yeah enhance in df was lots of fun and similarly flat like outlaw, iirc at least
haughty wigeon
so your like monster energy generation for your dreadblade window
haughty wigeon
A lot of DF, enhance was giga flat wasn't it
ye
fossil lintel
A lot of DF, enhance was giga flat wasn't it
Closest one right now is DH I think, but they still have some bursts
wintry solar
You're just making sub rogue
haughty wigeon
ghostly strike removed and backed into dreadblades so it does 20% more damage to your targets
keen belfry
@vivid vessel do u bind each trinket to its own bind
cinder relic
A majority of this games lifespan in raid, burst just hasn't mattered to rogue.
haughty wigeon
bte stays but its crit is only accessable when you have dreadblades up
glass mortar
laws problems go further then its damage profile being flat anyway
the adr uptime minigame and how far cdr has gone is more punishing
wintry solar
Curse of the Dreadblades had a bunch of modifiers on it
glass mortar
then a linear damage pattern at this point imo
look at what they need to give us to give us a "real" cd
a 1m cd
haughty wigeon
outlaw is now a burst spec
glass mortar
its 6minutes
haughty wigeon
like how wink and me wants it
glass mortar
if u have a 30 second intermission in a fight, u gained zero kir uses
u probably lost a use in fact
lone spear
yea true i said burst spec
cinder relic
The "problem" of outlaw is that most rogue players don't want to play it even when it's "pretty good" and there hasn't been an actual tier where outlaw is like, 10% better. That's it rlly
glass mortar
downtime is so beyond worthless
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> do u bind each trinket to its own bind
ye i have 2 binds for up trinket and down trinket
lone spear
i just want 1 button that does something juicy
cinder relic
There have been plenty of sub/sin tiers where they are 10% better
haughty wigeon
yea true i said burst spec
i mean what? you cna just slap a burst button and call it a day
that makes outlaw clunky af
cinder relic
When the margins are slim a lot of players don't bother.
lone spear
u think KS doesnt make it clunky?
haughty wigeon
if it doesnt add or is a reward to the engine
lone spear
go play on ptr
lone spear
this shit grinds to a halt
royal bane
the adr uptime minigame and how far cdr has gone is more punishing
Idk, the adr uptime minigame, the rtb randomness and the flat damage profile is what I like about the spec, I wouldn't want it gone
lone spear
i thought i liked the channel initially
glass mortar
really i dont like the adr uptime minigame at all
lone spear
but the more i play
haughty wigeon
i think new ks has issues with how you want to spend after its done instead of build
but w/e
glass mortar
especially since 90% of the time u lose adr in raid its beyond ur own power
lone spear
the more i think it either needs to slap, or it needs shorter channel
cinder relic
There's more to this game than making specs competitively viable for like, 100-200 ppl
lone spear
this halfway shit aint working for me
glass mortar
doesnt feel fun when blizzard decides to design 5 encounters in a tier that just fuck u because they force drop adr over and over
haughty wigeon
killing spree feels like a reward when you properly manage your cd
royal bane
I think trying to fix outlaw issue is great but it shouldn't cost the spec identity to do so
haughty wigeon
with a 40ish second cd if played well
but the trickster stuff kinda hinders it
they can stand to buff it to
to prevent cancel aura memes
cinder relic
doesnt feel fun when blizzard decides to design 5 encounters in a tier that just...
Probably doesn't feel for for burst specs to have fight timers be slightly off their base cd either
glass mortar
i mean 100% adr uptime has been the spec identity for 3 seasons over the lifespan of this game
i would not call it outlaw identity
maybe getting closer to it
lone spear
the difference is guy
keen belfry
ye i have 2 binds for up trinket and down trinket
what the fuck is up trinket
glass mortar
Probably doesn't feel for for burst specs to have fight timers be slightly off t...
they so rarely do this shit tho, and the timers are never off every specs cd timings
lone spear
again re-treading ground here
haughty wigeon
thats mostly
glass mortar
might mismatch with some peoples sure
cinder relic
they so rarely do this shit tho, and the timers are never off every specs cd tim...
Uhhh
lone spear
we really need base energy changes and stuff
glass mortar
also, does it feel as bad? does their gameplay suffer as much as u outside adr for 30 seconds?
fossil lintel
Probably doesn't feel for for burst specs to have fight timers be slightly off t...
As long as they aren't losing a cast of their CDs they are fine though, not true for us
lone spear
changes to AR too
glass mortar
i dont believe it. i played WW this tier and survival last tier
where are these fights mega punishing cd specs
ever
quaint mauve
yall think this is gonna be a detriment to my apm?
glass mortar
dragon in df
quaint mauve
glad it’s not on my keyboard hand
glass mortar
like downtime can punish a cd spec
vivid vessel
what the fuck is up trinket
up and down trinket
lone spear
glad it’s not on my keyboard hand
what is that?
wintry solar
yall think this is gonna be a detriment to my apm?
Nah
glass mortar
downtime always punishes us
haughty wigeon
wehen you have 90% uptime of something
glass mortar
at 100% punishment value
quaint mauve
what is that?
blood blister
haughty wigeon
there has to be a clear downside to it
lone spear
oof
haughty wigeon
:)
lone spear
there has to be a clear downside to it
and thats the problem
haughty wigeon
kk remove uhuh
lone spear
it either needs to be up perma (like a passive or something)
or needs to be like 50% UT like guy suggests
like in DF S1
glass mortar
and i feel like a large part of it is downtime just has null value for our actual abilities. if u have a 30 second intermission that happens outside ur major cds thats 30 seconds of piss filler ur missing
vivid vessel
cant be done
glass mortar
30 seconds of cdr churning for us is literally 2-3minutes of cdr
its the cdr thats the problem in my eyes to be clear
lone spear
buffing energy hella devalues AR then
glass mortar
its just gone too far
lone spear
as if it needs more devaluing
fossil lintel
Just buff energy outside of AR yeah, so it doesn't feel so bad
vivid vessel
buffing energy hella devalues AR then
how
haughty wigeon
i mean
cinder relic
buffing energy hella devalues AR then
It doesn't
haughty wigeon
ar is shit anyways
haughty wigeon
buff energy at this point
haughty wigeon
btu i know
lone spear
its not really a CD
haughty wigeon
they wont
lone spear
if its 100%
haughty wigeon
cause blizzard shits the bed wit hthis stuff
lone spear
its just a maitainence buff
glass mortar
adr is one of the most impactful cds in the game but u only ever know it if its fallen off
vivid vessel
its far from a maintainance buff
haughty wigeon
havoc doing 0 damage if meta was dropped :)
glass mortar
its funny
vivid vessel
a maintainance buff is a thing like snd
cinder relic
Me when I'm in a pedantry competition
fossil lintel
Devalue the thing that is up 90% and put the value into 100% of the time is great, do that
vivid vessel
i cant ever compare adr to something like snd
gleaming lagoon
wehen you have 90% uptime of something
yeah, the issue is that you are balanced around it being up. If they force you out of it, welp
vivid vessel
when its so vastly different
glass mortar
nah its not an actual cd its just a funny feature
haughty wigeon
yeah, the issue is that you are balanced around it being up. If they force you o...
like hell man
glass mortar
its a entry level "play the spec and do real damage" requirement
wintry solar
Buff energy AND delete uhuh
cinder relic
Too many ppl don't understand what the actual problem is haha
vivid vessel
you still do 30% less damage out of adr causr you press 30% less gcds anyuway
quaint mauve
should i always adrenaline at 0 combo points ?
fossil lintel
Adr gives you two things, full CPS and the will to live, that's it
haughty wigeon
lok siad a cool solution
glass mortar
i would love for them to squish our cds a bit and reduce cdr personally
haughty wigeon
one time
glass mortar
could make the timing of abilities largely similar and reduce some of the downtime cost
lone spear
stacking haste like mop xdd
fossil lintel
Get out
haughty wigeon
to think this spawned from
"give outlaw a burst cd"
funny how its not that simple
cinder relic
While the spec is reliant on uptime more so now than in the past, this talking point of the spec being "reliant on uptime to deal damage" has been a constant critism of the spec for almost 8 years now. The issue specifically is restless blades. No matter the ar uptime, no matter how baseline energy works, restless blades is always going to inherently punish the spec for not having 100% uptime
vivid vessel
ok you doubled down on the problem tho
glass mortar
6m kir icant
vivid vessel
with adr loop
cinder relic
Both of you totally missed the point 
vivid vessel
maye
glass mortar
no u missed the point
fossil lintel
I think adr does too much currently and the spec would be a lot healthier moving some energy from adr to base. It feels like shit whenever adr is down right now
glass mortar
nobody here is saying "remove the problem entirely"
u can make issues less prevalent
without removing them completely
most of us would be happy with that
lone spear
ok guy you identified the "problem"
vivid vessel
idk
haughty wigeon
he did
vivid vessel
maybe im delusional
glass mortar
it doesnt need to be "we arent punished by downtime anymore"
haughty wigeon
restlessblades
glass mortar
is anyone saying that
vivid vessel
but you legit half the problem already if ytou make energy infinite like it awalays was
this isnt a cap btw
lone spear
but like thats obviously not gonna leave because it hasnt left yet and its been 8 years
wintry solar
I've come to terms with it
solar hazel
does roll the bones have bad luck protection or is it really just rng?
haughty wigeon
does roll the bones have bad luck protection or is it really just rng?
cto
glass mortar
u can also give us better tools to mitigate downtime so it feels less shit to play
wintry solar
but like thats obviously not gonna leave because it hasnt left yet and its been ...
Since cata
glass mortar
i lose 10% dps on meters to intermission ok
cinder relic
Just rng. But the spec has tools to help
glass mortar
i just dont wanna play vanilla wow
thats all
this spec should never be vanilla wow
royal bane
what if, buried treasure baseline and replace it with smth else
glass mortar
even when ur getting turbo cringe 1/100 pull rng
haughty wigeon
does roll the bones have bad luck protection or is it really just rng?
but like keep in mind one of our builds encourages you to roll it away unless you have 5 buffs
vivid vessel
what if, buried treasure baseline and replace it with smth else
does this buff even work
haughty wigeon
so
glass mortar
i dont think thats a crazy take
vivid vessel
i dont feel it
haughty wigeon
it doesnt matter rn
solar hazel
mhh okay
fossil lintel
what does cto mean?
Count the odds, talent down the middle row
haughty wigeon
read your talents :3
royal bane
i dont feel it
then bigger buried treasure baseline !
solar hazel
yeah yeah the one which gives random buffs
fossil lintel
read your talents :3
Reading your talents and remembering their names that have 0 impact on gameplay is two different things
wintry solar
Play without cto and tell me it has 0 impact on gameplay
fossil lintel
The name has 0 impact
haughty wigeon
Reading your talents and remembering their names that have 0 impact on gameplay ...
i mean like