outlaw

[vivid vessel]

it would be silly for ks to do that much damage sure

[daring oxide]

as in very strong

well

[proven ocean]

cuz its diminished by bladeflurry right

[daring oxide]

op strong

[vivid vessel]

but it would litteraly just cancel out the trickster nerf?

so how is that broken

[daring oxide]

in ST yes

it would i think

[proven ocean]

idk buffing KS will be bad i think outlaw needs to have flow same as live

[vivid vessel]

i mean i agree

[daring oxide]

they'd have to buff KS by 69%

[mighty pivot]

nice

[daring oxide]

i made that up

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/armstrong-made-it-up-gif-25653819

[vivid vessel]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/outlaw-rogue-changes-feedback/2120193/57 @daring oxide @proven ocean @glass mortar

[proven ocean]

i think KS's main issue is that it generates CPs

[vivid vessel]

drop a like

i think its weird that it generate cp

[proven ocean]

one

[vivid vessel]

idk if i care tho

[proven ocean]

done

[vivid vessel]

if it wouldnt

it would be weirder

cause you have no feedback

its going on

[proven ocean]

i hate that i have to cancel it for it to be worth a dps gain

not the part that its just generating u know

also it generating isn't good synergy

at all

[vivid vessel]

i know

[mighty pivot]

👍

🏄‍♀️ 🏄‍♂️

[vivid vessel]

@mighty pivot drop a like

[mighty pivot]

say please

[vivid vessel]

no

[proven ocean]

whats ur opinion on current outlaw zac

on ptr

[vivid vessel]

live outlaw ?

on ptr

[proven ocean]

ptr

[vivid vessel]

the gameplay loop is trash

longer ks is trash

i mean you can read both the posts i made

[proven ocean]

i feel the same way yea

[vivid vessel]

its how i feel

also

i think outlaw energy

is still an issue

[proven ocean]

i think outlaw shouldn't have occassional downtime that shit is miserable

[vivid vessel]

im getting tired

of having no energy

when i should have energy

[sudden fulcrum]

same (both in game and out of game)

[proven ocean]

either make the gameplay like BFA, or give outlaw complete full control on crackshot and AR uptime

[vivid vessel]

and im tired of pretending its not an issue

[proven ocean]

i dont want outlaw to be like

sometimes bad

its annoying when that happens

[vivid vessel]

like just buff energy like it was before

doesnt change shit

[proven ocean]

and thats literally what ptr is right now

[vivid vessel]

im happy i can play the game

[proven ocean]

no i dont mean energy zac

i mean like

[vivid vessel]

it is legit just enregy tho

[proven ocean]

just the flow

[vivid vessel]

this also happens on live

and if you have energy

it doesnt matter if you are in adr or not

you cycle cds quickyly

you can spend cdr in crackshot

you can farm fth

[proven ocean]

yea

[vivid vessel]

it works

but when you dont have energy

it doesnt

i just want energy

[proven ocean]

find FF nerf weird, idk why realz when with that

[vivid vessel]

idk

[proven ocean]

is it because he saw me and you play outlaw in DF with 4 set in s3 or what

like

im genuinely confused

cuz everyone hates the energy gain except top 0.00001% players in s3

[vivid vessel]

idk

[proven ocean]

because it had to be played perfectly for it to have good energy

[vivid vessel]

i think he doesnt have a good view of energy

[proven ocean]

idk i find it weird

[vivid vessel]

i still remmeber jpc playing outlaw on stream

and he was complaining about energy in a pack

while topping the pack

and realz commented on the stream

in chat

"no energy but topping metters"

like damage =/ gameplay

but apparently

[proven ocean]

xd

[vivid vessel]

thats not understood

for some reason

[proven ocean]

theres no way he typed that

ofc he doesnt mean dmg

wtf

lol

[vivid vessel]

he did type that

i think it was in s3 i dont remmeber

[proven ocean]

i feel like he thinks any comment we make is based on dmg and not feeling

[vivid vessel]

after rrework

[proven ocean]

like imagine now in PTR we do good dmg

he will think outlaw is good

[vivid vessel]

cause thats when eenergy got very bad

[proven ocean]

but it isnt

even if it its op

i would hate playing that shit

[vivid vessel]

yep

[proven ocean]

no good loop nothing works well

like

why would i enjoy that even if it tops the meters

[glass mortar]

Delete ff

[proven ocean]

if i wanted top dps i'd play udk

[glass mortar]

Buff base energy

No need for 40% of our budget to come from rng prox

🙂

[vivid vessel]

i think the biggest issue is the energy pool btw

[glass mortar]

Adds nothing

[vivid vessel]

thats what makes it the most rng

cause 100 energy means 2 gcd you are out

[fathom bramble]

max energy needs to be like 100 or 150 higher

[vivid vessel]

yep

[proven ocean]

well yea, and nerf ss energy cost, remove coup energy cost (issue for sub only), and idk

[vivid vessel]

should just be 200 energy baseline

it would already helps a great deal

[glass mortar]

Actually the point of ff is to make it so u need to actively press buttons to generate energy

[proven ocean]

i think 100 is fine just need to boost energy gain and lower ss energy cost

[glass mortar]

So don't delete it

[proven ocean]

thats all zac

i think 100 energy is good mark, need to just nerf energy gens

[glass mortar]

Retune it to be 100% chance

[proven ocean]

cp gens*

[glass mortar]

On each offhand swing

[vivid vessel]

its not cause thats where most of the rng comes from

[frail veldt]

Dev brainrot tbh

[vivid vessel]

when you dont proc you are low energy instantly cause you have 2 gcd worth of energy pool

thats it

[proven ocean]

no zac i mean nerf energy cost of things to make 100 = 200

u know what i mean

[vivid vessel]

gs > ss is also one gcd you end up at 0

[proven ocean]

100 is simpler than 200 to read

so ye

[vivid vessel]

ah

sure whatever thats the same thing

[frail veldt]

All long time players know tuning is borderline random so the best you can ask for during ptr phase is to FEEL good playing and ignore meters entirely

[vivid vessel]

i understand what you mean tho

[fathom bramble]

I was just about to type a similar idea

[glass mortar]

Yea I mean retune energy costs abit, retune ff to be 100% proc rate

[fathom bramble]

cut all energy costs and generation by 50%

[glass mortar]

So we don't have all this variance in our gen

[fathom bramble]

functionally 200 max energy

[frail veldt]

I mean energy number is irrelevant

It doesn't change gameplay

At all

[proven ocean]

thats not true

sin has energy rng too

[frail veldt]

Could say 1 million

[proven ocean]

rupture is like

baseline energy regen

so

[glass mortar]

Sin is supposed to have downtime

Outlaw isnt

Why do we want rng

In our gen

It adds no gameplay

[proven ocean]

we dont

[glass mortar]

The only gameplay we ever have from it is afking

[proven ocean]

i t needs to be fixed yea

[vivid vessel]

issue is

[fathom bramble]

where?

how much

[vivid vessel]

HO ill go back to playing vigor

and guy will say its fine

so

[proven ocean]

idk how much the variance is but its from crit on poisons i think

[vivid vessel]

what can you do

[glass mortar]

I'm saying, 40% of our energy budget is in an rng proc

And its heavily normalized, but it can still have dry spells and heavy proc spells

So u can just suddenly be dry for no reason if u get some bad procs

[fathom bramble]

it has zero rng protection it's entirely random

[glass mortar]

It adds nothing

[proven ocean]

and poison procs

but idk what else

not logged in to check other stuff

oh and blindside

[proven ocean]

if that procs its a big time save

[glass mortar]

Yea I mean u will find its heavily normalized because it's mostly proccing off weapon swings and we swing 5000 times a fight

[fathom bramble]

dashing scoundrel is crit poison

everything else is consistent and reliable

[glass mortar]

But it has nothing built in to protect it from dry streaks

[proven ocean]

i guess, blindside is a big energy rng too btw

its the biggest one that impacts energy rng

[glass mortar]

And there's just no reason for it to be a proc

Rng energy adds nothing to the spec

[fathom bramble]

some weapons just can't be swapping in combat/keys

[proven ocean]

modern outlaw doesnt like rng much i believe

[fathom bramble]

blizzard sets it manually and isn't very consistent about it, but for iron thumb specifically it is probably to keep you from taking it off after reaching 25 stacks in a raid encounter

[proven ocean]

but this season its coming back unfortunately

[glass mortar]

generally speaking if some gameplay of cheesing the weapon could exist they try to break weapon swapping for it i think

like fyrakk cantrips which did megadamage above 90% hp

[proven ocean]

i think all wep swapping should be banned

in any form of combat

unless ur wearing an unusable wep

like sword on sub

then u can swap to dagger but once

but idk too specific

[fathom bramble]

probably

I'm not sure why swapping weapons in combat even exists

[vivid vessel]

its cause weapons can break

[fathom bramble]

or why it has been left in the game even after changing how gear in keys works

[glass mortar]

leftover thingy they never took away

[vivid vessel]

and then you cant press spells

[glass mortar]

yea

my gut is, at least from long ago

it was so u could swap a weapon on if it broke

[fathom bramble]

I mean sure, but an equally viable fix is to let you cast spells with a broken weapon

or maybe remove durability from this game because I hate it

[glass mortar]

wdym i love getting taxed for wiping in raid

[proven ocean]

very true

[glass mortar]

i love how it has rp elements like "increasing cost based on type of armor and ilvl" also

[fathom bramble]

or my offhand dagger breaking faster than any other item in thee game on any class 👌

[glass mortar]

so i can pay more as the expac goes on

[proven ocean]

the whole game doesnt make sense why not make any item never break

[glass mortar]

peak flavor

[proven ocean]

legit cringe

===> exclusive img of wow devs in 2025

dont share

[fathom bramble]

let me pay like 100x the repair cost to apply indestructible to an item

[vivid vessel]

@keen belfry

[fathom bramble]

probably a larger gold sink than having repairs

[frail veldt]

It's a method to curb inflation

It sadly needs to exist

[glass mortar]

i wonder what the numbers are for gold sinks in this game, comparing players buying tokens for gold to buy store stuff vs repairs

[frail veldt]

If money wasn't getting drained from the system in some way then the economy would get super fucked up

[glass mortar]

i feel like repairs r legit irrelevant if ur the type of person who needs gold removed from u

u never notice them

u only notice them if ur the raid logger andy only getting as much gold as the free weekly stuff gets u

[frail veldt]

You'd think so but it impacts overall pricing

Because it's a static load on all players

So the poor players buying the pots from the botters and farmers have a perspective of cost

[fathom bramble]

yeah

I understand why it can't be straight up removed as a gold sink

[glass mortar]

ok but it doesnt need to exist this way

[frail veldt]

Repairs and world quests that give gold are how blizzard keeps a relative "minimum wage" level

[frail veldt]

What would you replace it with

[glass mortar]

just remove a small fee of gold from my character everytime i rez to keep my gear "fixed" or something

why is an item breaking mid pull ever even a possibility

why do items break at vastly different rates

daggers are so stupid man

[frail veldt]

Ah you just don't like having to press the buttons

[glass mortar]

they arent even cheaper to repair

[fathom bramble]

but I would love it if items had like 2-4 times the base durability and/or allowed you to pay a large fee to remove durability as a mechanic from 1 specific item

[frail veldt]

That's fine but also then it's not optional and if you run out of gold cuz you died and it auto repairs then you cant take a flight path or whatever

[vivid vessel]

i would pay 100k per items

nvm i wouldnt

[frail veldt]

Its honestly a super minor thing

[vivid vessel]

idc about repairing

[glass mortar]

it is super minor

idk if the rpg factor it adds to the game is worth the annoyance tho

[frail veldt]

Yeah how much would you pay to a vendor to make a piece of gear indestructible

[sacred saddle]

get your guild to pay for your repairs 4head

[glass mortar]

100X the repair cost

[fathom bramble]

100x the repair cost

[frail veldt]

For the richess who cba to get an auto hammer out

[vivid vessel]

thing is

im only paying to not get on the mount

[frail veldt]

That would be a cool addition

[glass mortar]

i mean brother when we were doing queens court prog we were each spending like 4k an hour in repairs

if not more

[vivid vessel]

cause the gold you dont care

so idk

[glass mortar]

our guild cant afford that

xd

fuk that boss man

[frail veldt]

Yeah it's a lot lol

[vivid vessel]

10k a piece maybe

[mighty pivot]

make repair costs directly withdraw from your real life bank account

[frail veldt]

Told you

[vivid vessel]

at most

[frail veldt]

Shits relevant AF

[vivid vessel]

how much is 100x the repair cost

[unique bridge]

what do you think the highest key could be timed as 5x outlaw rogue

[glass mortar]

yea for us, i guess the expectation is ur a money maker if u raid?

its not like raiding gives u any cash inflow

a casual player will spend 5k in 5 months on repairs

compared to a raider

[frail veldt]

It's just a cost to people who play a lot so they don't runaway with the economy

I don't see an issue with it compared to everything else in the game lol

[vivid vessel]

it gives me

600 to 1mil a week rn

[glass mortar]

sure it incentivizes sales

if ur not selling carries tho its just a money pit

[vivid vessel]

passive income

[glass mortar]

i mean it doesnt bother me because i actually like all the aspects of the game

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/pokimane-broke-boy-gif-1631750273434798155

[glass mortar]

so i make enough cash delving and doing my weeklies

to fund my raiding and be always poor

[vivid vessel]

what are you guys stance on boosting in wow

[glass mortar]

but i def notice when a boss is u chain whiping in the first 45s

if we get another queens court i will be forced to buy a token

[vivid vessel]

i love being able to make money boosting

gold *

[frail veldt]

That's insane

I've had 1mil gold only once ever

[fathom bramble]

I'm like barely money neutral this expansion with just a few raid sales

[vivid vessel]

ye but we do 2 raids a night

and we have up to 3 buyers on gally

rn

[frail veldt]

Yeah I only play for me and not nearly enough to do carries

[vivid vessel]

usually we do like

[glass mortar]

i usually coast off the 1 big mythic BoE i get every couple seasons

[vivid vessel]

a full clear with 2 buyers i think

[glass mortar]

and live frugaly

[frail veldt]

I did a bit on DF and it was free money

[glass mortar]

i havent gotten one since s1 df thoi

my raid rng is down bad

[vivid vessel]

and on last boss we do 3 guys

i think

[frail veldt]

But unless I'm with a group of friends I'd rather just not do them and buy gold lol

[vivid vessel]

idk honeslty

[glass mortar]

i need to sell a nice 1 milly boe to zac or one of the rich boys

[vivid vessel]

im not entirely aware

[glass mortar]

to fund my raiding for the next couple xpacs

xd

[fathom bramble]

idk how you coast on 1mil for a few expansions

maybe I spend money too readily

[leaden folio]

just do your wq Kappa

[glass mortar]

i do crafting stuff but just for my own supply

[fathom bramble]

but 1-2mil a season in spending is more likely to me

[glass mortar]

i only need to buy a few things and repairs

[vivid vessel]

i think i spend like

2/3 mil

every early season

[glass mortar]

and i never buy boes or items

[vivid vessel]

early raiding cost a shit ton

i buy boes early usually

like on my rogue i bought boots and head i think ?

when they were 1 mil or smth

after killing gally ?

[glass mortar]

i just need one hot drop first 2 weeks of raid

[vivid vessel]

just beofre

[glass mortar]

to be able to tide me over for midnight prob

but blizz wont give it to me

[vivid vessel]

then i boosted my monk

[glass mortar]

they know ill be forced to buy a token if i dont get it

[vivid vessel]

cost me like 500k min

[glass mortar]

realz turned my rng off

[vivid vessel]

with level boost, gear etc

m+ consumables cost a shit ton aslo

[glass mortar]

ooo speaking of boosting gotta do my weekly tw

[vivid vessel]

especially if you rune

in keys yiou need

[glass mortar]

ye i mean u have 1000X my expenses bcause of ur m+ pushing

[vivid vessel]

we have a guy rn

asking for dfc/ml 21

[glass mortar]

i wouldnt be able to afford to live if i tried to do that

[vivid vessel]

3mil cut in my pocket

thoughts ?

thats 12 mil a key

[fathom bramble]

I spend runes like they are nothing

[glass mortar]

im pretty neutral about that kinda stuff because i dont really care about the leaderboards but i understand people who feel a way about it

[fathom bramble]

probably amounts to a significant % of my spending

but as long as I stay money neutral idc

[vivid vessel]

hm

[fathom bramble]

I'll spend them everywhere

[hybrid crown]

I use the DF one lol

[vivid vessel]

idc much becuase people that get boosted dont play the game

[glass mortar]

if i knew the person was gunna try to sell it like they had timed that key id say its pretty shitty

[vivid vessel]

its not like in league

where you get boosted

[glass mortar]

if they just want some cosmetic or title reward

[vivid vessel]

and then you play

[glass mortar]

then w/e

[vivid vessel]

and you have a boosted guy in every game

in wow people that get boosted dont play

or dont get invited

[glass mortar]

is kinda shitty if u let them steal title spots from people actually trying tho

since titles r limited

[vivid vessel]

eh

ye

well

idc about that

maybe that makes me a shitty person tho

but idc about the title either way

i just care about rio

[proven ocean]

nobody gives a shit about the title

only new players/noobs do

[leaden folio]

they care about the mount

title is so bad

[vivid vessel]

the mount is the noob title tho no ?

not 0.1 %

[proven ocean]

yea

3k io or someshit

[vivid vessel]

its like doing all 10s or whatever

[honest sparrow]

3000k is the mount so 12 and some 14

[leaden folio]

12s

[dawn talon]

but it's like such a tiny issue

[honest sparrow]

13*

[leaden folio]

but yea

[proven ocean]

u can do that on 610 ilvl

its so easy

[leaden folio]

casual care about the mount

[dawn talon]

if u rly want title you'll get it

[vivid vessel]

ok but thats not limieted so

the argument was that boosting people to title

[dawn talon]

boosting in wow is just like complete non issue

imo at least

[vivid vessel]

fucks over people that manually get to title range

[proven ocean]

noobs celebrate getting 3k mount at 684 ilvl

💀

[glass mortar]

ur not buying a 21 to get the mount

[vivid vessel]

which is a fair complain i guess

[proven ocean]

abit i guess

[vivid vessel]

buit i also couldnt care less about it

[glass mortar]

if ur buying a regular like glad mount carry but not title/not slots that are limited per season

[vivid vessel]

makes title more competitive

get better noob

[glass mortar]

i dont really care

[honest sparrow]

Are there even alot of players getting boosted title keys? Like its pretty obv if you do and you are a bit of a running gag after that

[glass mortar]

collectors gunna collect

buying limited slots off people is kinda cringe

[proven ocean]

zac tbh complaining about boosters is invalid imo

[vivid vessel]

ye

shit ton

[vivid vessel]

im not complaining

[proven ocean]

because that part is always there on all games no matter what

yy i know

i just mean ppl who do

[vivid vessel]

i mean i said the opposite

i said in wow boosting doesnt impact most people

cause people get boosted and dont play teh game

[proven ocean]

thats true yea

[vivid vessel]

in league

people get boosted

then int their games

till they get back to their rank

thats not hwat happens in wow so

i think its fine

[honest sparrow]

Uff didnt thought that many would waste good gold/money on a shitty title who no one really uses because they normaly suck

[proven ocean]

i think echo were gonna boost gallywix race to world 2nd from what i heard

[dawn talon]

nah it depends

[proven ocean]

wont affect anyone rly

[dawn talon]

imagine u have to play

1000 games low master

bc you have 2 ebays ur team every game

[vivid vessel]

ye i heard about that one

its funny

[dawn talon]

(season 11 euw)

[leaden folio]

with resi

casual can get boost

and infinite trap key

every week

[dawn talon]

it's legit like getting ur brain put in a microwave for 1000 games

[leaden folio]

while before resi

it was like

[proven ocean]

its not just funny idk how ur gonna brag about it

[glass mortar]

that just sounds like normal league to me

[proven ocean]

its gonna be weird as hell

[leaden folio]

1 key deplete, they cant use their key to trap anymore

[proven ocean]

being boosted in a top world run that everyone knows u got boosted

thats the worst type of boost imo

[leaden folio]

now trash player can infinte trap pug

[glass mortar]

i think most people buying boosts r not trying to play it off like real rating yea

because it will be very very obvious

if it was or not

i do feel like if ur boosting u should public log the key tho

so everyone can shame that person if they try to

[dawn talon]

fakeclaiming world 2nd would be insane

ye they just subbed me in on last boss

yk

[proven ocean]

no, because buyers demand privacy nowadays

they dont want ppl to know they're boosted

[honest sparrow]

I mean... i got a bunch of time hit with the "yea i got ce last saison with a guild from a friend but they were not logging" XD

[proven ocean]

which is crazy

but

ye

[vivid vessel]

never had a buyer ask me to not public log

[glass mortar]

well CE the player skill range is way wider

[vivid vessel]

• i streamed most of the keys i have boosted

[proven ocean]

no one cares about logs but

[glass mortar]

brother that is so sketchy if that is the norm

[proven ocean]

atleast the ppl i bnoosted this season abit

they told me to not tell anyone

that he bought a boost

[glass mortar]

why would u not want people to know u got boosted

[vivid vessel]

also its so easy to know a guy got boosted or not

look at lashga

[glass mortar]

if ur not trying to play it off like real rating

[vivid vessel]

perfect example

[glass mortar]

or some rmt shit is happening

no reason for it

[vivid vessel]

i opened raider io

[proven ocean]

so that they join real grps afterwards

[vivid vessel]

and understood

in 10s

[proven ocean]

thats the reason weran

[vivid vessel]

you dont need a log

[glass mortar]

ok thats scumbag behavior xd

[vivid vessel]

you dont need anything

[proven ocean]

well hes paying for it

so

go argue with him i suppose cuz

[glass mortar]

no for the guy not the boosters

[proven ocean]

i know its cringe

but

u cant do anything about it

they suck balls

it is what it is

[proven ocean]

[honest sparrow]

In lower ce guilds you get some guys applying with ce but not logs not even private like once or twice every season. I think some think its easier to get into guild with having ce or something idk

[leaden folio]

the only problem with boosting is "low elo pug"

[keen belfry]

yesss

[leaden folio]

the pug around +10 or around heroic raid is filled with too many among us

started to boost because I prefer getting payed than not

[vivid vessel]

BRO ITS MY BOI AWANWANWANGEAAAA

[keen belfry]

famous!!!

[sudden fulcrum]

well boosted players int keys too, and probably raid. so it's pretty similar, just that WoW doesn't really have competitive in the same way

in the end people's time is being wasted in both scenarios

[vivid vessel]

boosted players dont play keys much

and its pretty easy to spot one

[leaden folio]

they fill the vault

[sudden fulcrum]

yeah like if you ever see that tomelvis guy in your key watch out

[leaden folio]

so sometime

[vivid vessel]

they get their io by geting boosted then they just dont play

[leaden folio]

doin +14 is faster than doin +10

because +10 is full of trash

[vivid vessel]

ok

but

they arent boosted

they are just bad

[leaden folio]

they do

they get boost, have some rio and a +10 key

they can get invite with their fake io or just do their key infinite trap

[vivid vessel]

ye i do that

i boosted my monk

a 10 key

[proven ocean]

@tepid skiff bro do u have infernal cape? no cappi osrs is kinda fire nowadays

[vivid vessel]

so i could start the game

[leaden folio]

y but zac you are not the 90% of the base player of world of warcraft

[vivid vessel]

no I am

i went on to deplete 10s after that

litteral menace

[leaden folio]

[vivid vessel]

im not proud of it

but waht is done is done

sorry guys

[leaden folio]

zac monk is

[proven ocean]

sheeeeeeeeesh

started playing the game again gonna work on it later when i get 95 magic and shit

[sudden fulcrum]

we lost zeross to runescape it's joever

[tepid skiff]

yeah its one of the most satisfying accomplishments in all of videogames

definitely worth goin for eventually

[proven ocean]

yeah fire cape already felt super nice when i did it years ago

can imagine

[tepid skiff]

almost beat the game just need a few more items

[proven ocean]

holy shit ur gaming

💀 my bank is worth like 500 only

m

[tepid skiff]

thats ok just need bofa for ur first infernal cape

[proven ocean]

ye probably

or maybe i borrow tbow from one of my friends

[proven ocean]

idk man

maybe it is joever

[vivid vessel]

you say that

every few days

then you just go and play wow

[sudden fulcrum]

is this server the most doomer?

[vivid vessel]

liar

[vivid vessel]

who knows

[proven ocean]

wdym this is my first time playing another game in over a year

[dawn talon]

i cant speak for anyone else but idc about the 20 minutes or w/e im wasting

[proven ocean]

osrs is kinda cool zac

no cappi

[dawn talon]

like ow for example i queue up i get duoq boosted supp who only plays lw juno mercy

-15min whatever i go next

[vale warren]

prolly mage or something

didnt pala disc get locked down when they lost spellwarding or something

[lone spear]

i mean as a server its for sure not the most doomer

[dawn talon]

season 11 league u queue up both teams have 2 cancerobvious bought accs unless ur queuing at like 3am and ur match quality declines to complete coinflip

legit ruins the entire game

[sudden fulcrum]

shit man, i do. i value all of my time. it feels like shit to waste 30-40 minutes in a key. i do like OW more for that reason because matches are very fast comparatively

[dawn talon]

so u have to ban the ebays more bc u hit critical mass

if u have super obvious buyer in your key just leave

nothing stopping u

[sudden fulcrum]

in S3 you will be stopped by the mark of shame

[dawn talon]

maybe you will

i wont

if i have super obvious buyer and i cba barely timing a 12 for vault i will just leave

[lime lake]

cant wait for +12 leaver only keys

[frail veldt]

I've had plenty of vault 12s fall apart

Some people are reaaaaally bad

Lol

NA lfg is wild

[sudden fulcrum]

i was tanking a low key today and this garbage arcane mage kept pulling for me all while somehow doing less damage than me

it's not like i was pulling small either

they just pulled the entire I'pa room in Cinderbrew

[tender wedge]

“I’m a meta spec, enable me”

[sudden fulcrum]

if they weren't doing healer damage i'd be glad

but like i'll probably just die if we pull everything with no damage

[real berry]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[frail veldt]

You sure it wasn't on accident from arcane orb?

[sudden fulcrum]

yes because i asked them to stop and then they did it again and again

so i said i would leave and they said "go ahead babygirl"

people wonder why there are no tanks

it's shit like that

[latent panther]

Is Iron Thumb comparable to Capo? any reason not to have iron thumb as main hand / capo offhand?

[stuck sparrow]

me doing rookeries for vault

and looking at healers dispel off cd

and im in range

[glass mortar]

not good in dungeons

u can use this setup in raids

slightly better then a cauldron fist

[stuck sparrow]

is iron thumb even more damage than cauldron fist

[glass mortar]

yes

maybe not on short fights tho

[stuck sparrow]

what i find interesting is enhance now plays double ironthumb

with thread embellishes

though guidewriter had to specify

this is for super geared toons

not you hc geared rats

[sudden fulcrum]

well someone that has cloak and possibly stoneform is probably lowest priority

[stuck sparrow]

no stoneform

cloak down

[sudden fulcrum]

unluckers

[stuck sparrow]

i just spam ping them

if their dispel is up

and they arent using

[sudden fulcrum]

drop void zone on them to establish dominance

[versed flint]

any tips for learning outlaw without using hekili? Just practice endlessly on a dummy?

[sudden fulcrum]

read wowhead guide, practice on dummies, watch videos. i also like delves as a more entertaining way of learning

[versed flint]

been playing it for a long time, but with hekili the whole time.. so seeing if there are any tips/tricks anyone uses to help you keep track of what to press and when

[dawn talon]

the concepts for outlaw are simple, try to memorise them and then go hit a dummy for a bit

then think about the mistakes you made repeatedly

and what you should do instead

[versed flint]

should i learn HO first and then swap to KIR when i get mroe comfortable?

[fallow hinge]

Weran

have you done gally as surv?

is eagle up for every purple canister set?

[dawn talon]

no, just play whatever you want until you're comfortable on it

ho teaches bad builder efficiency habits which are the most important thing playing kir so you're not really learning much applicable information

[cinder relic]

You are learning about general concepts of the spec tho

Like the entire cd usage of vanish

And learning to react to procs

Without the added overhead of how to manage combo points properly

[glass mortar]

nay im outlaw this season

[dawn talon]

i think that overhead is so significant that it completely changes how you approach playing the spec

[fallow hinge]

dang oki

[hollow temple]

sheeeesh man that is cracked for an iron. fucking gaming

[last veldt]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by bad builder efficiency with HO? I’m only now learning outlaw from sub/assa and have stuck to HO only so far

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not really true anymore. HO use to press ambush or opportunity at 5cp and horrendously overcap cps

[wet belfry]

If I'm not at the recommended haste for KiR, do I still play it, or sub it out for a different build?

[gaunt phoenix]

use diff build

[proven ocean]

can this be revised on trickster on PTR ?

[gaunt phoenix]

possibly you will ambush at 5cp if it will lead to a coup

[plucky chasm]

Is lashga boosted lol ?

Or wdym look at lashga perfect example? For waht ? Just dont got it, thats why askin

[fresh obsidian]

I was in your shoes not long ago and honestly? The swap to KiR wasn't that drastic as it was made out to be. You could learn on either/or.

I played 1fth and that was pretty different though

[covert kestrel]

Yeah he bought his runs on the final day last season lol

And then came into this discord to brag about being r1

And was laughed at that he left, then came back and got perma banned for being intolerant

[wintry solar]

I forgot about lashga

[fallow hinge]

maybe friendship was the real lashga

[wintry solar]

The friendship was the boosts we bought

[latent oak]

pirateship>friendship

[wintry solar]

The friends were the landlubbers we keelhauled along the way

[dim nimbus]

for a fresh outlaw, would wasting my chip on capos wep beworth vs 681 crafted weps

?

[proven ocean]

@gaunt phoenix video check

[mighty pivot]

capo's even at heroic will be your best offhand for bosses this season. For trash you should use the cudgel from the hallowfall event. You only need a crafted MH

[dim nimbus]

even for m+?

[mighty pivot]

all that applies to m+ yes

[civic zephyr]

anyone else seeing absolutely 0 procs from charged crystal on st?

on sprocket its not even on details

[mighty pivot]

charged crystal can bug and stop working (dying might be the cause)

[tender wedge]

Yeah it just stops working sometimes 🙃

Use crit chain or static charge, be annoyed, and move on

[eager rose]

so dying early on a key can cause the crystal to fail all the way?

[mighty pivot]

yes

[eager rose]

I think I'll use static charge because I already have 29% crit

[mighty pivot]

that's why the stat procs are recommended on the 2nd pin

[tender wedge]

Crit chain simmed a bit higher for me, as if nerfing charged bolts to dust AND the crystal randomly failing weren’t enough

The vers proc is depleted faster by outlaw than any other spec

So gains less value than you’d think considering how much we usually like vers

[proven ocean]

wow retail into xbox gamepass too soon?

?

[wintry solar]

Why's crash circled?

[keen belfry]

this was the goat extend

[wintry solar]

Hot

[keen belfry]

whatre the vegas odds i get these buffs to my next KIR

[wintry solar]

Pretty high

[keen belfry]

no way

[wintry solar]

Scared money don't make money

[smoky notch]

How it outlaw doing currently

[keen belfry]

0.1

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/load-blow-gif-27480509

[random stirrup]

every time you do this you actually hard guarantee insta rolling a 5buff

[rustic moon]

been a while since I last played this class, is SnD never pressed anymore?

[mighty pivot]

correct

[tender wedge]

It’s automatically applied by dispatch (?)

[ripe ibex]

@keen belfry hey

[keen belfry]

hey

[ripe ibex]

hope ur having a good day goat

[keen belfry]

ty big bro

[proven ocean]

i know ur awang's alt account

GlazerMaster69XD

@keen belfry true or false

?!

[ripe ibex]

na

oops

wrong account

[sudden fulcrum]

shouldn't you be chopping wood somewhere Zeross

[proven ocean]

[radiant root]

[steel briar]

does kir or ho sim higher with proper gear? for m+ and st please.

i tried to sim kir but i don't have enough haste so it sims awful

[keen belfry]

it literally is me

[ripe ibex]

@keen belfry bro ur pumping that key

[keen belfry]

which one hehe

[hybrid crown]

They are very similar to where you could play either in pretty much all content. It can't hurt to try and get like a good haste vers ring or neck to get enough for KIR. Also haste flask can get you there

[tender wedge]

You can sim for KiR by overriding the default flask to a haste flask

But HO usual sims a bit higher for me

[wintry solar]

Spark

Cudgel best animation outlaw has right now

Thoughts?

[tender wedge]

Nah that goes to wax whistle

[wintry solar]

Nah

Do you know if we can get last seasons delve set?

[tender wedge]

I don’t think so? The bloody token pvp stuff is the same so maybe it’ll show up for marks of honor later on

[wintry solar]

Someone told me about the delve vendor

Imma check it out when I get off

[lime lake]

someone told you correctly

[wintry solar]

Yayyy

[lime lake]

have i always been able to report people for child abuse

and i just somehow never noticed it

[frail veldt]

Wtf

That's def new

[wintry solar]

What's the context of finding child abuse in wow?

In the voice channels no one uses?

[lime lake]

yeah im kind of confused about the use case

[wintry solar]

Maybe the use of toys on child npcs

I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas

[sudden fulcrum]

don't know and i don't want to know

[late swallow]

Maybe it’s about cheese pizza

[wintry solar]

What if I need it

[late swallow]

Probably honestly

[lime lake]

it worries me that it was apparently something they felt needed its own report option

the terorrism too but less so

most pugs are terrorists anyway so thats not a surprise

[wintry solar]

I wonder if we'll ever get jaywalking

[late swallow]

Yeah who knew people on the internet did stuff like that

I could never have imagined

[lime lake]

i mean theres a significant difference between knowing it happens on the internet, and it being prominent enough in a 20 year old mmo that it needs its own report option

[sudden fulcrum]

it could also just be part of a broader strategy of compliance now that Microsoft owns Blizzard

[lime lake]

goldshire went too hard

[late swallow]

I’m losing my patience with you bel

[lime lake]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-top-gear-jeremy-clarkson-no-one-cares-gif-18925814

reported for terrorism

[wintry solar]

Dang

So I can't throw empty beer cans at my brother's beer fetching machine?

[late swallow]

Real shit going down in idaho rn

Might need that report button fr

[sudden fulcrum]

potatoes getting baked?

[lime lake]

wtf

i hate this world

[covert kestrel]

I always get bel and bac confused

[haughty wigeon]

thats axctually the reason btw

[lime lake]

im the only glorp though

[wintry solar]

Me too. I didn't want to say anything but I'm glad you did.

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-glorpshit-mad-gif-12826934952903770254

[covert kestrel]

I thought bac was glorp

[late swallow]

Bac is our based chinese brother

[lime lake]

i would never dare compare myself to bac

im just a humble shitposter

[keen belfry]

@ripe ibex @vivid vessel

[lime lake]

[ripe ibex]

yeah i mean

only truth

[wintry solar]

Behold

The cooler daniel

[proven ocean]

Come dps race both of us on ptr tonight

[keen belfry]

dps race

[proven ocean]

Will be glad to see u at the bottom of the meters

• we’re gonna be on 300 ping as a treat

Sounds good?

@late swallow i mean theres a significant difference between knowing it happens on the internet, and it being prominent enough in a 20 year old mmo that it needs its own report option

goldshire went too hard

[keen belfry]

😦

[next wedge]

fucking woxtox

kicked me out of top 3 OL for BTM

[wet belfry]

Any tips for not murdering yourself with Killing Spree constantly?

[next wedge]

wait for 11.2

or get cast timers for mobs

[frail veldt]

memorize every dungeon

sadly

memorize the timers for swirlies

[next wedge]

this

[frail veldt]

so you know which ones are safe and which arent

monitor cloak/cheat cd(if running it) so you know when you can safely risk it

know which aoes dont tick instantly and therefore can be safely KSed in

[next wedge]

always feint beforehand as well

if u have energy

[frail veldt]

yeah feint helps for sure

[wet belfry]

Thanks!

[muted sphinx]

play cheat death, use def cds as offensive, learn the timings , it may take weeks

[ancient laurel]

Hey, does secondary stat weights matter much if I have met the haste requirements? I didn't gear for outlaw so I'm mastery heavy, and was wondering how much of an impact that has on the spec

[lone spear]

mastery is quite a bit weaker than vers and crit. you can probably sim the differences between the pieces you have and others using droptimizer

[latent panther]

Isn't mastery better than crit for kir?

[tender wedge]

mastery is pretty yuck in most situations

[lone spear]

in big aoe its comparable to the other stats

assuming you are also running deft

[tender wedge]

that is the situation not included in "most", yes

not something you wanna be stacking for in any case though, but does explain why HoC isn't terrible

[stone delta]

what trinkets should i use

?

[tender wedge]

#1276310705905336442 message

[vivid vessel]

I think I became a better player cause of ks

It's like training in the timer chamber

[wintry solar]

The mop challenge thing?

I forgot what it's called

[frank finch]

ur taking my comment

[torpid fiber]

thoughts on making current KS a glyph

[frank finch]

i said that

[vivid vessel]

You did?

Well now it's mine

[wintry solar]

If glyphs still effected gameplay AND the new KS was default, then sure.

But that has huge implications

[open bobcat]

How hard is sub rogue in y'all's opinion

[echo gale]

choice node

[open bobcat]

Er

Outlaw

[wintry solar]

Easy to learn and hard to master

It's intimidating at first

[open bobcat]

I tried it out at the start of the season for one guild raid night, and was just kinda bored since I didn't have to worry about hitting crack shot outside of adrenaline anymore

Like it wasn't as punishing

Maybe with more haste, and keeping track of some nuances I wasn't aware of, I'd have more fun

[vivid vessel]

Old ks is way better tho

So you would be forced to play that shit

[haughty wigeon]

naah im not touching old killing spree at all

if they bring it back as a choice node

damage means nothing

when it kills you even if you play perfectly

[vivid vessel]

10% damage is a lot

• it's prio damage so it's real damage instead of fake random useless damage

Also I bet new killing spree doesn't work

On all the bosses

Like rookery first

Rookery last

Cause the range is small

That would be funny

[wintry solar]

Fr

Why can't it just

Idk man

Only be one target and it flurries or something

The 8 yard range is weird as well

[proven ocean]

#buffsinfuckotherspecstheyareop

[proven ocean]

It was all tested trust me bro

[tribal swan]

I wonder how many fotm OL rerollers will get baited because KS animation looks cool af

[proven ocean]

We never get those unless outlaw is op

[tribal swan]

3% bonfire crit buff nerfed? it always disappears during a key.. no deaths

[proven ocean]

Fixed is the right word

[tribal swan]

:<

[haughty wigeon]

we buff it until the gap is closed

increase range

have it focus prio target then cleave

[tender wedge]

It should just be like FoF where it does big dam to main target and x% to all others damage reduced beyond 8 etc etc

[vivid vessel]

thing is

the cd increase bricked trickster

are you gonna buff ks till its 30%/40% of your damage done in st?

I need to double ks damage here to overcome the dps loss from the cd nerf

and there is prolly more implications in aoe

[haughty wigeon]

i mean we can probably buff outlaw baseline more

than just straight buff to ks

if im actually being serious

not like outlaw is strong in ptr rn

[vivid vessel]

but then

what about trickster vs fatebound

we just brick an hero talent for no reason?

[tropic geode]

Hi. Im looking for some general tips to play outlaw on OaB. I see we are among the top DPS specs for that fight, tho admittedly with very few parses. Whats the secret to do the big numbers? 🙂

[haughty wigeon]

i think the changes to killing spree is more something that we need to get used to more than anything

theres othersolutions like buffing trickster baseline

and change some interactions around to fit new killing spree

like ub memes

[vivid vessel]

trickster is a hero talent for 2 specs

[haughty wigeon]

yes

[vivid vessel]

these changes are hard to make

[haughty wigeon]

i dont think sub wont say no to trickster buffs

[vivid vessel]

?

so you just increase the gap between ds and trickster even more

jsut cause you bricked it for outlaw

are we being silly

[haughty wigeon]

its not being silly

if ds and or fb gets gapped bigger

then just fix those as well at a later date

[vivid vessel]

ok so buff ds also

and then

sin

ds

[haughty wigeon]

fix that too

ez

[vivid vessel]

jsut keep buffing them in a circle

[haughty wigeon]

yep

non meme answer tho

[vivid vessel]

buff sin fatebound

which buff outlaw fatebound

[haughty wigeon]

frankly so many specs have hero talents that are so unbalanced

[vivid vessel]

and now you need to buff trickster again

and then

[haughty wigeon]

that while yes its unfort and what not

[vivid vessel]

infinite circle

[haughty wigeon]

they all need a second pass

[vivid vessel]

holy shmoke

[haughty wigeon]

to fix the specific quirks of each hero spec

[vivid vessel]

frankly how has they not gotten a second pass

is beyond me

[haughty wigeon]

like herald for ret

[vivid vessel]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/outlaw-rogue-changes-feedback/2120193/57 here leave a like @haughty wigeon

[haughty wigeon]

is still 10% behind templar

for all damage

[haughty wigeon]

oh new post

[vivid vessel]

yes im a forum poster now

one trick forum yapper

[haughty wigeon]

dont get me wrong btw, i like alot of the hero trees since frankly its hard to justify and balance "add another row of talents" with each level cap increase.

i think alot of them jst need seocnd passes to be truly decent

[vivid vessel]

I think they create unbalance and I don't like how they have cool utility and shit in them

[ripe ibex]

someone has to do it

[haughty wigeon]

or atleast changed going into midnight

[vivid vessel]

That you can't take cause of dps

Like for example

Would I care that much if trickster wasnt meta in m+ if I could take infinite tricks

In both build

Maybe not

But I can't do that

It's even more shit for the 2 other specs

With deathstalker defensive being so good

Imagine assa playing fatebound in keys

Crazy stuffs

[haughty wigeon]

dont linger, you'll lose braincells

no i get it tho

templar has a cool 5% dr on every target that gets hit by your hammers

while it is better

i like eternal flame from herald

due to nostalgia

ultimately i think end of the world soul saga hell even maybe end of tww. we'll see the more popular utilities end up baseline

[ripe ibex]

yeah also like clear the witnesses and singular focus actually make fatebound just never better

i think they just need to mini rework fatebound tbh

[haughty wigeon]

ya needs to not suck

when another tyarget appears

i havent tried tier set tho

beyond the superficial "does thi look cool"

frankly shitting out a ton of coins does look cool

[vivid vessel]

ye similar to why i do not want to play fb in m+ over trickster

damage profile isnt good

[tender wedge]

Is your mate 🌊 back yet with more cooked takes

[frank finch]

i was doing z dps today in normal raid

we need like a 20 % aura buff

so does sin

[molten topaz]

playing the Killing Spree on the PTR, it feels like I'm going to accidently clip the end of it a lot, do we need to macro our other abilities so that they don't stop casting it?

[wintry solar]

You can just press any ability

[haughty wigeon]

[mighty pivot]

Yuge KS and tier changes this week surely

[mighty pivot]

For now it's a DPS loss to let it channel after max CP anyway. If it remains a channel, and it is eventually tuned so that it is worth fully channeling, we will need to add [nochanneling] to our abilities yes

[fallen zodiac]

Combat assistant highlight is a complete joke on retail.. its not even 50% accurate..

and as far as i saw..it's only on outlaw

[fleet knot]

will fatebound be viable in m+ or it will be exclusively raid only :?

[vale warren]

Competitive with current tuning but assuming they end up reasonably balanced in st trickster should still be stronger unless they do something to nimble flurry

[next wedge]

!UP

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[gilded karma]

you're right Unseen Blades should proc of autos

thanks

[vivid vessel]

no i think procs from autos are bad cause its unpredictible

[wintry solar]

Every 5th builder or sumthin

[leaden hazel]

One quick question, is it me or the dmg from charged crystal doesn't show in details?

[quaint sable]

There is a bug where it sometimes just doesnt work

[distant zinc]

is there a workaround or is it pray it works

[leaden hazel]

I'm reading we have to equip and unequip all time <zzzz

[quaint sable]

There is a WA for it iirc

but ye basically have to re-equip

[distant zinc]

im just gonna not bother and run crit chain at 0.3% loss