outlaw

[vivid vessel]

i like

yes

[hollow temple]

i did not even read them zac

i make da joke

[wintry solar]

They don't do that in France

[hollow temple]

o

[wintry solar]

Ik

[shy meteor]

Tuning will come

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[wintry solar]

It is yeah but that's not always reliable.

[stiff estuary]

sub seems to be good again on the start of season

the trickster seems nice

[wintry solar]

I'm playing regardless but it'd be nice if it was tuned well.

Had someone ask if I was sure I wanted to run the key as Outlaw lol

[shy meteor]

I think subs dmg is good, but its dmg profile is to specific

[wintry solar]

Bro just put the key in the pedestal.

[sudden fulcrum]

just put the fries in the bag bro

[vivid vessel]

i heard r1 rogue was outlaw

[stiff estuary]

is good until you have to spend dance chanrges to kill emissary on m+

[vivid vessel]

surely the spec is good enough

[shy meteor]

But I mean sub bursts as hell and there is no follow up dps, ur doing heal dmg and waiting on the sideline for cds

I know its kinda their identity but I think its not suitable for keys in general but ofc there are keys where that is bonkers

[prime agate]

!pooling

guh

does outlaw not pool or?

im a forever assasination player

trying out the waters

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

[prime agate]

👍

ty my rogue friend

[mighty pivot]

#outlaw-faq covers all that you will need

[obsidian walrus]

i hope they fix the spec alittle on the PTR tunning aside

how would yuo fix it @vivid vessel ?

make ks 2 min ?

and maybe rework the 2p set ?

for trcikster

[mighty pivot]

he is writing a 12 page essay on it, wait until it's ready and published

[obsidian walrus]

ty

[mighty pivot]

not a flashbang this time

[obsidian walrus]

i will have a read at it

i hope they listen to you @vivid vessel, i love outlaw because if you play it right you are always doing something (not energy starved or pooling for cds). I hope they make the class flow better

maybe shorten the cast time of KS (make it close to the duration of the live one now)

and yea tune it right

and yea maybe give us a dmg cd that helps us with dps phases on bosses

but that wont happen this exp XD

[mighty pivot]

wdym we got a KS that blasts for looks at notes not enough damage to not cancel at max cp

[obsidian walrus]

XD

[vivid vessel]

i mean

even if it did damage tho

it still doesnt feel good to press

[daring oxide]

https://wago.io/AX3FJWJvq

Solo this WA might help us with the charged crystal bug

[sudden fulcrum]

neat

[mighty pivot]

not for keys B)

[vivid vessel]

get rezed at the start of the key

belt does no damage

for the rest of the dungeon

gg

[sudden fulcrum]

just don't die ez

[mighty pivot]

blame the healer/tank and /ff the key

[olive mesa]

Hey, i have started playing rogue, but have only played sub. If i want to outlaw I need a sword right? Does assassination use different weapons too?

[fallow hinge]

ass is double dagger, sub is dagger main hand, outlaw is non-dagger main hand

[random stirrup]

sub is also double dagger

you can use a sword offhand but it’s really really really bad

[shy pecan]

sub works with slow offhand tho

[random stirrup]

Like 100ilvl higher sword is worse than a dagger

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[sudden fulcrum]

[fallow hinge]

I was talking about requirements to use abilities, not optimal setup

[glass mortar]

at this point u could call sub double dagger yea

offhand non dagger is so bad now a day

[mighty pivot]

yeah attempting sub without double dagger is about as good of an idea as using and int sword for outlaw (you would be literally inting )

[random stirrup]

Sure, but like weran says it’s so bad you might as well not have abilities

Well not quite that bad

But I wouldn’t tell new people that they can run a sword offhand on sub because they will suffer

[desert tendon]

Ass is double cheeks

[fallow hinge]

ur double cheeks

[keen belfry]

Brb gonna make a coffee

[glass mortar]

@keen belfry how was ur coffee babe

[proven ocean]

@hollow temple partner slayer with me

[keen belfry]

Is so good might go to farmers market real quick but it’s late

[civic zephyr]

is wallop on the big guys in dfc evasionable

?

[shy pecan]

nop but the aoe shout

[civic zephyr]

okk ty

[red zinc]

[spare robin]

Capos hero track is simming worse than crafted dagger oh for single and 5 targets, is it simming correctly?

[exotic agate]

I was wishing that the killling spree change would have just been the skill animation and nothing else but nothing is that easy

[glass mortar]

link the sim?

[shy pecan]

you prolly have embell on your dagger

[lime lake]

no sim

only help

[hollow temple]

no way he dunked on mans like that lmao

[covert kestrel]

The man had a family

[hollow temple]

maybe later this week, busy today won't rly be on

[fierce plume]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[proven ocean]

wait rly

ok ok

@hollow temple i used to do melee vorkath are u proud

or is that too easy and i should get better

[hollow temple]

thats fine idk

i haven't tried it yet myself

prob in the next couple weeks after i do the quest

[proven ocean]

@hollow temple best spec wep is dclaws?

or?

for pure dmg

[hollow temple]

uhh

it rly depends on the monster

d claws is best spec on most weaker mobs, like slayer mobs etc

u mean for vorkath?

[proven ocean]

no ofc not

vorkath i know its bds or dwh

[proven ocean]

ye ok ok

[hollow temple]

i think burning claws/voidwaker are good at vork

[proven ocean]

ah

maybe thats new ig

[hollow temple]

but i'm not sure if u do bgs spec first, then the other after

i usually search the mob on the wiki, then click the strategy guide near the top of the page

like this for example

the strategy guide pages show u the best set ups

but they also show downgrades etc, not just full bis'

[proven ocean]

what website is this

ah

same wiki but its darkmode

wtf

ok

[hollow temple]

oldschool.runescape.wiki

yh

you can also do dps calcs n stuff

on gearscape.net

[glass mortar]

oh boy is ross getting into osrs

very nice

[red zinc]

This guy actually cooked

this is 100% the reason they changed it no cappy

[cinder relic]

My running theory is that because blizzard tracks "how dead a spec is" as a statistic, killing spree being the way it is shot that number up to such a degree it was unignorable

[red zinc]

Dead as in like

Playerbase or deaths ingame?

cause funnily enough I think more people played law this tier than last

[glass mortar]

i mean it definitly inflated the death metrics of law, especially in keys

i mean if u watch zac play, the guy dies to kspree like 3-4 times a session

[prime furnace]

Dimensious kills you if you touch him so it makes sense

[glass mortar]

which considering in s1/df when uw atched him play literally never dies

because outlaw is so immortal

and 95% of his deaths this season all to kspree

[red zinc]

Of course

[copper radish]

He cooked

Prob fell thru the map everytime on testing for that boss 😂

[cinder relic]

Deaths in game

Back when blizzard reworked paladin, one of the bullet points they talked about was that "Paladin was one of the most dead classes in the game"

Which tells me that this is a statistic that blizzard tracks in some capacity when evaluating general balance choices

When KS goes from "extremely fringe playable for 0.1% DPS on pure ST" to "The best option for most content" it likely spiked that stat to a noticable degree

[novel socket]

but they reworked ks to be the best option

they did this themselves

[copper radish]

But it had immunity when they first reworked so no deaths then they removed immunity lol

[cinder relic]

What?

[keen belfry]

why did u do 14mil firsdt pull WS @vivid vessel

now my brew thinks i have to do that

[shy pecan]

nothing wrong about that

[south glen]

just be cooler

whats the weapon swap macro again? for cudgel/cappos

[keen belfry]

mines bound to V

[vivid vessel]

idk

ez no ?

on these pulls

you put tank on follow

and do that

thats how you do damage on these type of pulls

[keen belfry]

unironically?

[shy pecan]

the swirls make it a bit awkward to ks

[vivid vessel]

yes

[keen belfry]

vod?

[vivid vessel]

you have to be on top of tank

at all time

im joking cuh

[keen belfry]

ok i do that now

[vivid vessel]

but do that

[keen belfry]

yes

[vivid vessel]

yes

[keen belfry]

not follow follow

but follow

[vivid vessel]

follow

[keen belfry]

ok i do that

[red zinc]

How do melee players ever die to puddles? Just /follow the tank (they never stand in mechanics)

[keen belfry]

do u still only 1cp ks

[vivid vessel]

yes

only

basically

i press cloak on pull to do a big ks

[keen belfry]

there are moments u can get bigger ones

ooo ok

[vivid vessel]

ye

[keen belfry]

makes sense

[vivid vessel]

siometimes

idk

im ngl

higher keys i do

i just

press ks low cp

half the times

[keen belfry]

ok thats good to hear

i send so many low ks

[vivid vessel]

yes

thats normal

[keen belfry]

like bruh any pull with divers

[vivid vessel]

ks is shit

[keen belfry]

in floodgate

low cp ks

[vivid vessel]

i also avoid superchaging it

[keen belfry]

same

[latent oak]

u dont get hit by the bombs in ks no?

[vivid vessel]

everytime i supercharge a ks

[keen belfry]

i will let buffs fall off before i supercharge a ks

[vivid vessel]

i die

[vivid vessel]

you do

and you can kill friends

but the explosion is a small radius

[latent oak]

u can kill friends if they are in range ya

but it doesnt hit u right

[vivid vessel]

it can

i think you need to tp twice

in the bomb

to get hit

cause the eplosion is delayed or smth

[keen belfry]

14 mil first pull WS is cursed tho

ive never done more than 12

14mil is irreparable dmg to the outlaw community tomelvis

[shy pecan]

are you playing full phys comp?

[vivid vessel]

havent seen that one time i did 20 mil on first pull cinder havbe you

[keen belfry]

yuh normally

[keen belfry]

idk how 20 mil man

my best is 15.5

[vivid vessel]

tbf i dont think i hacve ever done it again

[keen belfry]

yeah i think thats like mix of perfect play + perfect rng

i hit 19mil once

didnt end at 19 mil

[runic scroll]

Hi! Does the 1 hour tricks working ? I cast it on someone and after 30 sec it is gone

[proven ocean]

20m dps with bladerush

[vivid vessel]

what

[gaunt phoenix]

u have to hit something after the initial cast

in order to actually trigger tricks

[proven ocean]

to hit 20m im convinced u have to play HO

[runic scroll]

thanks

[vivid vessel]

what

[proven ocean]

and play some big ass burst trinkets no cap

[vivid vessel]

kir high roll higehr

also what i said was

I hit 20 mil

so its done

and i wasnt ho

[proven ocean]

idk about that, sure in sims but not in a high burst in a rly small window like 5 seconds

ambush does more dmg so

[vivid vessel]

first of all im not tlaking about 5 seconds only

second of all outlaw does more damage with finishers than builders

so if you want to talk about high rolling

you arent pressing builders

[proven ocean]

awang was talking about his highest dmg he ever reached

19m

both builds do the same finisher dmg anyway

[vivid vessel]

no they dont

[proven ocean]

if u roll 6 buffs insta why wouldnt it do more dmg

[proven ocean]

[vivid vessel]

also you cant roll 6 buffs

ho always miss one technically

unless you proc cto over and over

which isnt really a thing

[dim fern]

would you guys swap to a regular offhand instead of cudgel on bosses if you dont have capo ?

you can reset cudgel right?

[shy pecan]

cant reset on bosses

[haughty galleon]

Does bladeflurry still at times not work?

[frail veldt]

so youre saying just send KS on cd there

[frail veldt]

narp

[fallow hinge]

not with that attitude it isn't

hi mewo

[haughty galleon]

mhm had a pull that should have been an ez 10m w.a said flurry was up but i did 1.2m dps

[mighty pivot]

only when the attack kills the main target does it not work

[shy pecan]

sounds like a skill issue

[frail veldt]

either ui issue or you were standign too far from mobs or something

[vivid vessel]

1.2 mill ?

[frail veldt]

1.2m is worse than ST dps

so you def had something else going on

[vivid vessel]

[frail veldt]

maybe hitting a mob that had a damage reduction up

idk

[vivid vessel]

whole pack was imune or what

[shy pecan]

he was fighting with bare hands

[vivid vessel]

even then

you cleave full damage mewo

[mighty pivot]

rez sickness pull

[vivid vessel]

haha

[keen belfry]

1,2mil goes hard

[frail veldt]

yeah true

[shy pecan]

smacking 8 ppl at once

is a dream scenario

[frail veldt]

maybe footmen in priory?

[keen belfry]

1.2 with BF hitting 8 targets does how much?

[frail veldt]

aoe dr

idk how strojng it is though

its only like 40% right?

[vivid vessel]

50% it says

[frail veldt]

maybe you had rez sickness haha

[vivid vessel]

horrible shit

[frail veldt]

yeah what a dumb mechanic

honestly

[proven ocean]

i think its possible to do 1.2m dps without pressing a single finisher

[vivid vessel]

priory could be such a nice dungoen

[proven ocean]

so like u have to be fucking up so hard

[shy pecan]

JuSt ClEaVe ThEm EvEnLy KEKW

[proven ocean]

to do 1.2m

[keen belfry]

zac have u done 5mil in a WS

[vivid vessel]

but wow dev decided they would add cringe mechanics

[vivid vessel]

overall>

[proven ocean]

?

[keen belfry]

ye

[proven ocean]

everyone does 5m

[keen belfry]

😮

[frail veldt]

even the tank

[vivid vessel]

in our 21 i did

[fallow hinge]

even me? :o

[vivid vessel]

also dont listen to zeross

[frail veldt]

everyone except liz

[vivid vessel]

thats false lol

[keen belfry]

5mil is blast WS lmao

[fallow hinge]

:(

[proven ocean]

sin does way more than outlaw in workshop btw

mostly because we funnel

[vivid vessel]

probabbly

[mighty pivot]

everyone including ryukage with 38% haste?

[vivid vessel]

but saying everyone does 5 mil in ws

is a big cap

[keen belfry]

huge cap

[proven ocean]

idk

i play with dk

so

its easy to see big numbers there i guess

[keen belfry]

workshop is funny dungeon

[fallen knot]

how do i get gilded crests on ptr?

[shy pecan]

na its trash dungeon

[fallen knot]

the s3 ones

[keen belfry]

like 1/5th of your overall dmg is first pull

[vivid vessel]

why

[fallen knot]

wanna craft rings neck and weapon for my priest

so tonight i can raidtest nm

[vivid vessel]

you buy the items i think

also

you dont need crests

you craft reandom shit

it scales up

[keen belfry]

i did 4.77 in the 19 WS i did and i did like 8mil on the first pull xd

may have been the worst first pull ive ever done

lotta bad button presses + scared

[scenic rivet]

Did you time it tho

[fallen knot]

wdym it scales up

[vivid vessel]

it scales up

[keen belfry]

yuh

[scenic rivet]

There you go then 🙂

Shit dungeon

Worst this season

[fallen knot]

ilvl is set at a fixed values in raid?

[vivid vessel]

yes

and in m +

[fallen knot]

ok

[proven ocean]

zac zac

u think outlaw is a washed up spec?>!

or??

[vivid vessel]

ye sure

very washed up

[scenic rivet]

Chad spec

[fallow hinge]

zac zac

u think zeross is a washed up player?>!

or??

[vivid vessel]

he is

[proven ocean]

zac zac

u think lizard sucks at the game?>!

[vivid vessel]

nop

[proven ocean]

false

lizards cant play wow

[fallow hinge]

not with that attitude

[proven ocean]

zac zac

[shy pecan]

im sure lizards can play BM hunter with 1 button assist

[proven ocean]

u think lizard isn't goodn't at not in wow of the game?

@hollow temple LOOOOOOOL i tried logging in osrs and it said server is full

the game is literally at it's peak rn

[keen belfry]

i pray next season is like, prot war/brew/bear season

[fallow hinge]

zeross how come you got a coffee enthusiast discord tag if you like, inject red bull directly into your pancreas 6 times a day?

[shy pecan]

xd

[proven ocean]

i dont drink redbull

[shy pecan]

heating monster energy over a spoon type of injection?

[fallow hinge]

I didn't say you did, I said you inject it

[proven ocean]

ye as if im crazy enough to go with that method instead

[fallow hinge]

we both know you probably are

[frail veldt]

nah

he snorts it

straight to the dome

[fallow hinge]

ah right, that makes more sense

[shy pecan]

like kush?

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/jose-mourinho-sweet-trouble-gif-26762341

[hollow temple]

only a couple worlds are ever full, i would find one with better ping. 302/330/444 are usually full.

[proven ocean]

lizard tries to ragebait and then gets tilted at why people are flaming her

[hollow temple]

more ppl on world = worse ping

[proven ocean]

wont say anything this time u win tho

[fallow hinge]

I'm not ragebaiting?

[proven ocean]

the house one is on fire rn

ngl

2000 players

now it dropped to 1998

[hollow temple]

ye its always capped

[proven ocean]

dude wtf

i have millions of random ass mats from slayer that i farmed that i didnt sell

holy shit

[hollow temple]

yeh

you've got a decent bank to get back into the game with

[proven ocean]

ok not bad not bad

[runic marsh]

ive seen a high level rogue (mythic gear) with both wep ench for the 3000 or so Versatility proc, not seen that before, but interesting

[proven ocean]

?

Screenshot

or whats his name

[copper radish]

Wow looks weird 🤔

[runic marsh]

one second il find name

Nitre
<The Vkings Horde>
(EU) Aerie Peak

Enchanted: Oathsworn's Tenacity 684wep

[proven ocean]

yea this thing procs vers

i dont think anything's special about it

[red zinc]

im sorry but

[shy pecan]

the guy you linked is 2500 io

how is that even relevant here

he/she most likely just yolod any ench

[red zinc]

667 ilvl random guy new gearing meta

[unique bridge]

i keep muscle memorying to vanish ambush when low on energy, do we still do that? I haven't played since SL

[mighty pivot]

tenacity is cheaper, they might be broke

[unique bridge]

idek if we were supposed to do that back then maybe im just cooked, but smth isn't hitting like it used to

[shy pecan]

you plying trickster?

[unique bridge]

yes but only level 77 rn, only just started leveling my rogue again

[hollow temple]

noice

[mighty pivot]

why is it that in dungeons sometimes you can put down certain dummy toys but not all? Like the turnip might not work but the fish head will

[strong cargo]

Just Blizz things 🤷‍♂️

[chilly atlas]

there too much crap for them to think of everything

[fathom bramble]

Because they don’t have a consistent flag on all dummy toys. Pretty sure they manually disable them so some just get missed

[vivid vessel]

thats false

its just on cd

you dont see it

cause the cd bugs out

[covert kestrel]

Me when I need to hit the minimum word count on an essay

[copper radish]

All that to say rogue DPS bad 😂

[proven ocean]

sin need buffs

plz buff

[vivid vessel]

wrong channel

[proven ocean]

correct channel

outlaw op sin weak plz fix gg

[livid sluice]

🤔

[fathom bramble]

sometimes I wonder why people have bothered to leave feedback at all

if rogue is below a class that you haven't played in 14 years

where is roguee

and why are you in this thread

[proven ocean]

@hollow temple

i guess osrs has weird players too not just wow

[hollow temple]

[frail veldt]

rogue below spriest

lololol

is anything below spriest rn?

in keys that is

[proven ocean]

spriest is op atm in ptr, its also good on live

its not "the worst"

[frail veldt]

whats worse lol

frost dk maybe?

[proven ocean]

wtf what

frost dk is one of the best specs in live

[frail veldt]

oh affi lock?

idk im trying to actually think

whats worse than spriest

[proven ocean]

better than outlaw even in some keys

its super broken

[frail veldt]

so whats worse than spriest

[proven ocean]

played in mdi too

[proven ocean]

idk

dont remmeber

[frail veldt]

exactly lol

survival hunter?

[proven ocean]

i know it isnt the worst tho

[frail veldt]

nah they kinda pump sometimes

[proven ocean]

it does good dmg

[frail veldt]

thats not the question

[proven ocean]

its like

rly close to meta

[frail veldt]

it can be the worst still

[proven ocean]

bro idk whats the worst spec but spriest is very good

ur underestimating it alot

[frail veldt]

Im not saying its bad

im saying its the worst

[proven ocean]

no its not

its better than most specs in the game like fury, affli etc

[frail veldt]

I just cant think of anything worse

affi feels close

honestly affi has some banger dungeons

[proven ocean]

seems like u haven't seen the bad specs at all

spriest is better than ww monk

[frail veldt]

floodgate affi puuuumps

ooo ww yeah

[proven ocean]

spriest > havoc dh aswell

[frail veldt]

think so?

Ive only played with a couple good havocs

they seemed to pump pretty decently

[proven ocean]

spriest is better than ret paladin too but not in overall

[frail veldt]

oh idk about that

[proven ocean]

ret is rly bad in high keys atm

[frail veldt]

ret brings so much

[proven ocean]

no it doesnt

just utility that nobody needs

[frail veldt]

more than spriest lol

[proven ocean]

ngl mewo

[frail veldt]

is PI utility? lol

[proven ocean]

this ret discussion i hate the most because i think not many ppl know how bad ret is in high keys

it has the worst dmg profile in the game

[frail veldt]

I think only considering top 0.1% keys is a bad perspective

[proven ocean]

it does very high overall but u lose 1-2 min on timer automatically

[frail veldt]

but sure

[proven ocean]

so u want to compare classes where mobs die in 1 hit

sure just go sub rogue then

[frail veldt]

theres an in between

not every key is a 10 or a 21

you realize that right? lol

theres 11 keys in between that

[proven ocean]

idk what an in between means but all low keys dont matter for any classes at all you'll never know whats the worst or best in low keys

[frail veldt]

I mean by that logic all specs that cant do 21s suck then

which frankly is just a pointless perspective

[proven ocean]

because they do suck

[frail veldt]

so spriest sucks?

[midnight granite]

WW, fury, aff

[proven ocean]

every spec in the game can do 20s

[proven ocean]

it sucks and same goes to ret

but ret does +21 keys

does that mean its better than spriest? no

[midnight granite]

Every spec in the game cannot do 20s unless the comp allows them to cmon

[frail veldt]

you just said spriest was good on live

kinda confusing

[proven ocean]

thats what im saying

what

[frail veldt]

I feel like you need to adjust your scaling so you dont clump everything to the extremes

[frail veldt]

im so confused

does spriest suck or is it good

youve said both in the past 3 minutes

[proven ocean]

its good but it isnt meta

[shy pecan]

dont argue with zeross lol

[proven ocean]

anything that isnt meta sucks

[frail veldt]

I dont think zeross knows what hes arguing

[frail veldt]

that there is why your opinions are useless

[proven ocean]

bro ur just trying to be either annoying or trying to not understand at all

anything that isn't meta isnt good at all

and spriest does good dmg

[frail veldt]

putting everything in either "is meta" or "sucks" is an insane take

thats like the most useless perspective ever

[proven ocean]

i thought ur comparing specs that do the most dmg btw

and now ur just shifting and trying to be an asshole of "dont argue with zeross"

[midnight granite]

Go find a 20 timed with aff lock, fury warrior, spriest, prot paladin, and resto druid

[frail veldt]

I just said spriest is one of the worst specs in the game

[proven ocean]

then dont talk to me

[frail veldt]

I didnt say that

that was jona

but okay

I argue with you all the time

why would I ever say not to argue with you

[proven ocean]

lots of r1 keys were timed with fury btw

early in the season

its still way worse than arms tho

[frail veldt]

but its not in meta

so it sucks

but its good

but its not the worst

[proven ocean]

cba with you ngl

[sudden fulcrum]

aff is actually pretty good

not a lot of people know

[proven ocean]

you dont play m+

so i wont bother

[frail veldt]

I think affi is slept on yeah

but it has lots of issues

and its so easy to just swap to the other lock specs

so thats what most locks do

[torpid pasture]

cudgel still used for aoe?

[frail veldt]

ye

[torpid pasture]

cool, any convinient macro for weapon swps ehre

[barren fractal]

Allow me to regale you all with my tale

I started playing WoW again back in April. Went through a few classes, Monk at first dropped it cause it was boring, spriest next dropped it cause it sucked. Then picked up outlaw rogue

I used no addons and was averaging 400k-600k DPS M+ overall until some kind soul from this community noticed and gave me a ton of advice

I got cudgel, I started using Hekili, and my DPS increased to 1.8M - 2.2M in M+ runs

but how do I improve now? how do I take next the step

[vivid vessel]

uninstal hekili

[barren fractal]

my ilvl is currently 661 so I think I should be doing more then 1.8M - 2.2M overall but following hekili is following hekili

[covert kestrel]

read #outlaw-faq

uninstall hekili

hit dummies for a few hours

do keys for more hours

practice and get your ADR uptime up

learn when you can KS and when you cant

[proven ocean]

hekili is good if u have no idea what ur doing

[barren fractal]

where would you think a 661 ilvl outlaw rogue should be? I do notice it giving bad advice sometimes like breaking stealth with house of cards

[proven ocean]

idk 661 u probably dont even know what the talents do

[barren fractal]

but is uninstalling it really the next best step now I have much better idea of how the rotation works

I have a vague idea much more so pre-hekili like I used to never use vanish

[proven ocean]

i think u need to just practice without it if u know how the rotation works

because it'll slow you down later once ur decent enough

then you'll get a skill ceiling where u wont improve at all

and hekili will stop you from improving after a certain point

[barren fractal]

alright

ty for the help guys

[proven ocean]

last time i checked (last expansion) hekili was 95% accurate

[barren fractal]

I'll give trying outlaw raw a try and se how it goes

[proven ocean]

which is great

[barren fractal]

it was a monstrous improvement compared to what I was doing previously

[proven ocean]

for outlaw that is

[barren fractal]

but I've been doing like 3-4 keys a day for two weeks now

[proven ocean]

but the gameplay did change abit so

idk how it is now

[barren fractal]

is the FAQ up to date?

[covert kestrel]

yes

[frail veldt]

should be one in the pins

[frail veldt]

hekili in general is a shortcut to a dead end

if youre here asking how to improve thats shows you how little hekili actually teaches

[barren fractal]

it was a massive improvement at the start don't get me wrong

[frail veldt]

the faq is the bible and just from thoroughly reading that and practicing alone you can become VERY good at outlaw

[barren fractal]

literally took me from averaging 400k-600k DPS to well over a million

[proven ocean]

hekili teaches u alot ngl

[frail veldt]

yeah like I said its a short cut to a dead end

[proven ocean]

hekili isn't as bad as everyone make it seem to be

[barren fractal]

like I thought vanish was only for threat hahaha

[frail veldt]

yeah it has some quick short term gains

but you have to get rid of it eventually if you want to progress further

[proven ocean]

hekili is only bad because u have to look at it as it updates

the accuracy was 95-99%

[frail veldt]

I still personally think you will get good faster in the long term if you never install it

[barren fractal]

yeah that makes sense

[frail veldt]

well I think its bad cuz you dont understand its decision making

[proven ocean]

you do tho

because it doesnt update real time

thats why its bad

[frail veldt]

like how do you know that hekili is telling you to PS in crackshot windows as HO because you have BS up and max stacks of opportunity

like youd NEVER figure that out

unless you were like watching your footage back in slomo and looking at your buffs lol

when you could just read the faq and learn that in 10 seconds

hekili gives you a general "vibe" of the flow of a class

but you will never understand the reasoning behind the decision making esp as outlaw if you just stay on hekili

[proven ocean]

idk if it has that specific rule in there but mewo ur underestimating it alot

maybe u should try it and then talk about it

[barren fractal]

how do you keep track of buffs? I don't see anything on the FAQ about suggested addons

[proven ocean]

it did have all the rules of KiR in s3 DF

all of them

[frail veldt]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[fathom bramble]

it tends to have every rule

[proven ocean]

yes

[frail veldt]

it has most of the rules afaik now

its very good

[fathom bramble]

I always assumed they just used the apl to make it

[frail veldt]

thats the problem

haha

[proven ocean]

i didnt check on that rule in specific

[frail veldt]

it has all the rules

[proven ocean]

but it does have everything

it just doesnt update real time

[frail veldt]

but you cant reverse engineer the rules unless you put in great effort

youre training an entirely different skill set in reacting to hekili icons

than you would learning the decision making yourself

[proven ocean]

that as a habit is bad sure

[frail veldt]

and I think one has a lower ceiling than the other

[proven ocean]

it does tell u what to do if ur clueless

thats whats good about it

[frail veldt]

you can definitely do good dps with hekili

[frail veldt]

yeah definitely

but it doesnt tell you why

thats my main issue with it

[proven ocean]

im sure sin hekili is absolutely cursed '

unless ur playing bleed build

there are so many different things u press at different scenarios in aoe

its crazy

[barren fractal]

do you use all those listed addons or do I just pick 1?

[frail veldt]

I think hekili is hard to do on sin cuz sin is so much more situational with the pack/debuffs you have out/etc

outlaw only has one correct rotation for the most part

[frail veldt]

pick one pack

zacs pack is good

You'll still want to read the faq to understand what parts of the pack are important to look at

[median lance]

Nah

[frail veldt]

I'd start with playing HO and understanding the builder/spender rules thoroughly

[median lance]

1 button

[proven ocean]

one thing about hekili btw you'll never understand why thinks are being pressed without reading a guide

[frail veldt]

yeah for sure

[proven ocean]

you'll be like, ss ok

then bte oh fth? sure

but why? no idea

[frail veldt]

exactly

[barren fractal]

yah I'll give it a read

when I first started I read rotation prio guides from like icy veins

[frail veldt]

you can stay using hekili for now if youd like and then get the wa pack and read the faq

and then play hekili while understanding the rules

so you can start to see why its telling you to do what

if you dont want to see a sudden drop in your dps

[barren fractal]

I think the drop will be bad not too bad

[fathom bramble]

"They use action priority lists similar to SimulationCraft, and in most cases, are imported directly from SimulationCraft." I guess this is why they tend to have every single rule

[vivid vessel]

can mage just spell steal these type of things

[barren fractal]

like you said about not understanding I do understand more thanks to hekili

[frail veldt]

but with just an hour or so of reading faq and doing some practice on the dummies you can probably get past your hekili performance pretty quickly

[vivid vessel]

and if so can other specs do it aswell

[barren fractal]

for examples I only used vanish for threat so almost never now I use it on cooldown because it boosts damage by so mcuh

though I geniuely have no clue why sometimes it gives me like 5 BTE's in a row hahaha

[frail veldt]

yeah but they often nerf the effect when it gets applied to the mage

[fathom bramble]

I don't see a magic tag

[frail veldt]

so it isnt broken

like sometimes a mob has a 90% haste buff or something

then you spell steal it and its 10%

[vivid vessel]

its not really that

[proven ocean]

idk what that spell is but if u mean new dungeon then not that amoutn no

[vivid vessel]

but the mobs start with a 50% hp shield

[proven ocean]

is that new dungeon zac

?

[vivid vessel]

ye

[proven ocean]

ye its not that big shield

[vivid vessel]

idc about the amount really

[proven ocean]

its very low shield if spell stealed

[vivid vessel]

i just mean if mages can spell shield it

[proven ocean]

but ye i think u can but very low

[frail veldt]

if its magic flagged then its stealable

[barren stream]

You can't purge those

[vivid vessel]

how do you know

[frail veldt]

but yeah if its not then its not

it will flag it

if youre a mage

[barren stream]

Can confirm I am enh main

[frail veldt]

or any caster with a purge

its built into blizz api

"purgeable buffs"

[vivid vessel]

you tried ?

[proven ocean]

i was playing with asuna on voice and someone asked if he can he said something like its a low amoutn of shield

so

[barren stream]

Yeah

[proven ocean]

not the full amount

[vivid vessel]

idc that it would give the guy a low shield

[fathom bramble]

the mouseover tooltip would say magic if it was dispelable with the magic purge type

[vivid vessel]

if you can spell shield a shield that is half the hp of the mob

[proven ocean]

u can spell steal it zac

[frail veldt]

zacs just asking if its purgeable

[vivid vessel]

you have a gcd

[proven ocean]

im 99% sure

[frail veldt]

but sounds like its not

oh

[fathom bramble]

spelldata also seems to indicate that it is a physical debuff with no dispel type

[vivid vessel]

that does half the health of the mob

[proven ocean]

ah

idk if it removes the shield

i guess it should right

[vivid vessel]

i hope not

[proven ocean]

can remove the shield with purge?

[vivid vessel]

but that enhance guy said its not

so

[proven ocean]

idk

[barren stream]

I will double check it sec

[proven ocean]

enh can remove shields but

idk if its that shield in specific

so

if mage can spellsteal it that means its purgable

which means all comps can remove the shield zac

[median lance]

Use 1 button rotation mixed with hekili = doing more than 75% of players in dps

[proven ocean]

so it doesnt matter

[barren fractal]

well thanks for the help guys I'll give this practice for a few days and will report back

sorry one quick question first

I'm reading the FAQ and it looks like none of the recommended builds are taking ghostly strike

is that correct for M+ now?

[livid sluice]

if your running HO you can just drop precise cuts for it

like it's an option

[shy pecan]

i think most builds use gs or am I trippin?

[vivid vessel]

@proven ocean

im trying to run the dungeon in nromal alone to test some stuffs out

you are scaled down to 541

💀

i have 8% haste

3mil hp

[mighty pivot]

that makes sense because the ones that break rotate even in the same instance and you get something like "spell not learned" as an error

[vivid vessel]

dummies are also bugged

as in

if you click on it

then walk

it wont work

[proven ocean]

@hollow temple how tf do i go to perilous moons quickly do i have to fly and walk for 10 mins everytime or what wtf

[fathom bramble]

amulet from Amoxliatl

[proven ocean]

wtf ok ok

[mighty pivot]

I have not noticed them being functionally broken but pretty sure I always instantly attack them

[hollow temple]

ye and u gotta do the quest

[fathom bramble]

since moons isn't really a supplies boss you can also just spend like 6 consecutive days there

[proven ocean]

i finished the quest

[fathom bramble]

instead of ever leaving

[proven ocean]

wtf where i get that

[hollow temple]

the item i linked teles u there

[proven ocean]

ah

[hollow temple]

i don't have the amulet yet either i think u get it from a diff boss around there

[proven ocean]

efdp[oakfeaoijfmekflj;mae it worked

holy shit

big big

[fathom bramble]

this teleport is better

I didn't realize the moths existed tbh

[proven ocean]

this teleport is absolutely goated

[hollow temple]

yeh

[proven ocean]

nice im at 230m xp per hour

[hollow temple]

u training on the naguas or doing the bosses

[proven ocean]

nagas atm

gonna just afk there while doing some workouts

there herbs give good hunting xp wtf?

1-3 per

[hollow temple]

U get free pots there u know that right

Ok yh

[proven ocean]

yah working on it

[hollow temple]

Dope

[jovial sedge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow temple]

I set up the Sulphurous Essence to glow

So I don’t miss it

[proven ocean]

whats that

oh

wait i remember that name

[hollow temple]

It’s the item they drop that u turn in for RC exp

[sacred rune]

your wow looks like warcraft 2

[proven ocean]

oh ye i have it glow on red atm

[proven ocean]

ye cuh

[hollow temple]

Use the Ground Items plug in to highlight it, u just type its name into one of the text boxes of the plug in

Okok

[barren stream]

confirmed, can't purge as enh

maybe mage can for some bugged reason who knows

[proven ocean]

@hollow temple ngl dying is fun now

it isn't complete full panic mode anymore

[hollow temple]

Everything is pretty chill these days

[proven ocean]

ye thats cool

i remmeber so many years ago iwas like 7-10 years old, i was in tzhaar cave, first time being member the guy was 1 hp with full bandos and ags

ags was like 100m if not more

i was just afk looking at him hoping that he'd die

but idk why he never died wtf

[glass mortar]

he was probably farming something

some armor and effects in that game scale with ur missing hp so maybe he was gaming it to increase damage?

[hollow temple]

[glass mortar]

and if u pray correctly for damage type u cant be hit

[hollow temple]

are u using the dual weapon btw?

[proven ocean]

im using the whole set

for than uaga guys

[hollow temple]

the blood moon right

[proven ocean]

ya

[hollow temple]

kk dope

[proven ocean]

dude almost every mob in the game is weak to stab legit nothing weak to slash

[civic zephyr]

anyone know of any good outlaw coaches?

[hollow temple]

there's some

lots of slayer mobs for example are weak to like everything

but once u get into bossing, lots are weak to diff types

[gaunt phoenix]

https://discordapp.com/channels/124169701881282560/1310994344680882196

[hollow temple]

[glass mortar]

on topic

[vivid vessel]

hi

someone gives me an adblock that works on twitch

its driving me crazy

[ornate brook]

are there any sims for what race are best?

[lone crow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Adblock/comments/1lfieyo/for_people_having_trouble_with_twitch/

it works btw im using it

[ornate brook]

webb browser "Brave" as works very well for me

got built in adblocker

[vivid vessel]

do i need to do anything other than installing that thing

[vivid vessel]

i use brave

[lone crow]

ye the TIP thingy

[vivid vessel]

and i have 5 adblockers

[lone crow]

in that post

[vivid vessel]

ok ty

its crazy how everytime you swap a stream you get the exact same ad

i like to rapid fire check streams

and its litteraly not possible

ok it doesnt work

oh well

[lone crow]

it does 10000% u sure ure doing it right

[vivid vessel]

i did what they said to do and im still getting cancer

[lone crow]

wait i use another one i just realised

[vivid vessel]

I restared brower maybe it will work now

[lone crow]

otherwise try this one

[vivid vessel]

ty

watching the same ad

10 times an hour

is getting to me ngl

also it cant just be me

[lone crow]

twitch without adblock/turbo is unbearable

[vivid vessel]

but half the time i click a stream and get an ad

i just close twitch ?

surely thats not

[lone crow]

ye same

[vivid vessel]

what twitch wants ?

[dawn talon]

i legit can't watch twitch w/o adblock

it's just

unviewable

[vivid vessel]

like i just wanna check a stream out for 10s

and i have to watch 10s of ad

sudently its not worth my time anymore

[dawn talon]

was watching owcs finals and my friend had to watch me stream it over discord bc she has no adblock

and was perma buffering bc 5min of ads every 2 min of gameplay

xD!! wp amazon

[vivid vessel]

FUCK

I GOT AN AD

I cba man ..

[nocturne folio]

get a nordvpn sponsor

then you can use code zac to get 3 months free and watch your favourite streams without ads

[desert tendon]

loser

[vivid vessel]

bro ..

all these are adblockers

[desert tendon]

first of all

[vivid vessel]

im trying my best man

[desert tendon]

dont stack adblockers

it s bad

[vivid vessel]

imma stack them

dude

i need

[desert tendon]

well

[vivid vessel]

to fix

my twtich

[desert tendon]

you ll get more ads than ever

[vivid vessel]

i cant have ads anymore

its too much

[desert tendon]

with all these

[vivid vessel]

i only get ads on twitch

nothing ever fixed it

[nocturne folio]

nothing does except vpn or a silly script that from time to time stops working anyways

[rocky relic]

what talent do you take if you don't want to fk with killing spree

[vivid vessel]

assa rogeu

[dawn talon]

i use a ublock script

[vivid vessel]

ok give

[hasty warren]

Someone can like me the WA that show when I'm out of range ?

[fallow hinge]

@vivid vessel made it here at last :D

[glass mortar]

u guys got it

ur wipes will be frontloaded then ull start getting into p2 and the boss will die in 10 pulls xd

[fallow hinge]

171 pulls on mug is way less than I anticipated too

but I'm back on marksman for this.

[glass mortar]

sad

[fallow hinge]

Rank 44 parse on survival for muggy wuggy

but I got my tiny pal now so big blastin

[glass mortar]

very nice

i have 1 parse on my 1 mugzee kill and i was dead for 1/3rd of it xd

bit unforti

got all the items i needed off of it in one kill and i'll never see it again

[fallow hinge]

hec

[glass mortar]

but leech capo dropped and i got the goon trinket so i cant complain

[dawn talon]

https://github.com/pixeltris/TwitchAdSolutions

[valid kindle]

sv actually slaps on gally, my condolences

[fallow hinge]

we're so melee heavy

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix btw

i was thinking about how ks is a 8% nerf to trickster as you said

with current tuning you would need ks to do 13% of your damage here to compensate that

which is quite insane

how hard would they need to buff ks damage to fix that lol

[proven ocean]

if it does that much dmg it'll be way more than a 8% buff

it flurries too u know

[vivid vessel]

well thats how behind it is in st so

[proven ocean]

idk but if it does 13% of ur dmg it'll bladeflurry like bloodbeast on steroids

[vivid vessel]

uh

yes outlaw st directly iimpact its aoe

i dont really see what you mean tho

bte does 10 % of our damage rn

[proven ocean]

like its a 3 min cd right

if u press it on cd, 13% dmg

[vivid vessel]

I mean ye

[proven ocean]

ur casting bte all the time

[vivid vessel]

i know

its silly

thats my point

kinda

[proven ocean]

but idk ks will be turbo broken if its buffed for it to be 13% of that breakdown

[daring oxide]

killing spree should just do BTE damage hit

per cp

[vivid vessel]

you would need to buff ks so much to cancel out the cd nerf

[vivid vessel]

what does that mean

[glass mortar]

I'm assuming they r gunna just give generic damage buff

[vivid vessel]

the spell itself would do way more damage ye

[glass mortar]

To trickster

Ud need to make kspree a sec tech

[vivid vessel]

but what does a spell being turbo broken means

[glass mortar]

To make up for the amount it lost

[daring oxide]

he means if KS is supposed to be tuned to do 13% of the damage breakdown for AOE, it would be really broken

i think you meant 13% if your damage in ST?

[proven ocean]

idk if u mean like 8% dmg buff just as a st buff it'll balance it out sure

[vivid vessel]

i dont get what you mean by broken

[proven ocean]

but if it does 13% in that breakdown it might be absolutely busted