you just go make a coffee
#outlaw
vivid vessel
gaunt phoenix
i checked that it does actually cancel in simc
it doesnt like continue to queue the hits or something
fossil lintel
Look on the bright side Zac, you'll be able to talk on discord while playing outlaw like you were doing with sub the other day
hollow portal
I hope they fix it because if we have to cancel it, it's garbage. I hope they fix it before they release the season.
fossil lintel
If the fix is to force us to sit through it and not reduce the duration, I would prefer if they don't fix it
tender wedge
precedent-wise blizz seem to dislike it when it's best to cancel a channel so i'd expect a fix to come in
but when
glass mortar
i think if the gameplay of the ability is going to be to cancel, id prefer it be to cancel it only under some specific circumstance that doesnt happen everytime
if u never wanna full cast it i feel like its a failure
vivid vessel
precedent-wise blizz seem to dislike it when it's best to cancel a channel so i'...
fix > cant cancel it
or they make the last tick do more damage
i can feel it coming
pogger !
tender wedge
last tick doing more damage while you're CP capped would be utterly diabolical
mighty pivot
or they make the last tick do more damage
or they will make it so that you only get CP if it fully channels
gaunt phoenix
or they make the last tick do more damage
glass mortar
monk get payoff from full chaneling FoF from a couple talents. they just need to make the payoff bigger then cp gen
fossil lintel
Duration increased to 0.6s per CP, you do 5x damage if you're max cp
tender wedge
still boggles my mind that instead of just changing the teleport business they had to add this to it as well
monks only gain energy while channelling though, not like they get chi back
mighty pivot
yeah literally 1 good change grouped with 5 shitty ones like holy shit
tender wedge
"say less" in the most literal sense
glass mortar
they have two talents that give them boosts after a full FoF channel
the channel hits hard enough u wouldnt wanna cancel it anyway tho
vivid vessel
monk get payoff from full chaneling FoF from a couple talents. they just need to...
ok but
the payoff
glass mortar
its duration scales down and its damage scales up with haste
vivid vessel
is bad
making the damage scale with duration for example
would be terrible
then anytime you cancel it to kick or stun or whatever
you wanna kill yourself
- that let them not fix the fact its too long
glass mortar
sure
tender wedge
that was new with TWW though, FoF spent multiple patches getting cancelled, while multiple partial fixes (i.e. number buffs) failed to stop the behaviour
glass mortar
i mean idc how they fix this. just buff the spell by 100%
w/e
u can force it to not wanna be cancelled with raw damage
tender wedge
that would be a horrible fix for the reasons zac said above
fossil lintel
I think I would still cancel it up to 1% DPS loss tbh
If they don't change the duration
torpid fiber
then anytime you cancel it to kick or stun or whatever
Surely the fix here is just let us kick during it though
mighty pivot
no other channel allows kicks, right?
fossil lintel
Also 3 min cooldown feels weird, it's not back after 1 vanish but always loses CDR with 2 vanishes
tender wedge
nahhh because it's kick/stun/blind etc
i think the duration needs fixing ultimately
vivid vessel
Surely the fix here is just let us kick during it though
yte they wont do that
mighty pivot
so it's highly unlikely that they will allow CC during it
which WOULD be ok if it wasn't 5 days duration
tender wedge
becasue the super long channel just feels weird anyway
vivid vessel
I can tell you rn
there is no right time to press killing spree in keys
you will cancel it a lot
to kick
it feels like shit
i hate these things man
friction
whatever the fuck
i dont need
friction
im trying to have fun ??
tender wedge
dunno why it can't just be capped at like 2-3s duration and more CPs make each hit do more damage
like
torpid fiber
yeah this is something that's gotta change then, melee should be able to kick whenever that's like the whole point of playing melee
fossil lintel
Yeah I don't need to use my feet to use guns, why can't I kick while shooting?
vivid vessel
its lore man
craggy barn
@vivid vessel can i ks at all in the intermission of p1 to p2
or just hold til after
mighty pivot
you are shooting with your feet too why do you think you shoot so fast
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> can i ks at all in the intermission of p1 to p2
with cloak
craggy barn
ok
glass mortar
idk if its reasonable to expect them to make our melee channel better then all the other ones
vivid vessel
???
craggy barn
so we can talk zac
glass mortar
bit late for that
craggy barn
otherwise where we talk in here
vivid vessel
why does outlaw have the longest duration channel of all melees and casters
third of all
why is it
fucking
10% uptime
20% uptime
on this fucking channel
wdym better than any other channel
its shit
and i shouldnt have a hcannel in the first place
glass mortar
yea the duration should be cut in half 🙂 at maximum it shoulda been old kspree duration but that was already bad
idd
vivid vessel
I complained all season about ks being too long
glass mortar
it shoulda just been an animation of rapid attacks like rampage
glass mortar
mhm
listen i think its wrong for this channel to ever be this long im not gunna defend it
i just dont think we r gunna get the ability to kick or anything added to this spell
cause all the other melee channels also suck
vivid vessel
i know
i know
but why do i even have a channel
ok
im playing ouytlaw
not windwalker
i want a channel i play windwalker
or a caster
im playing outlaw
because i want to press buttrons
tender wedge
if i want to channel i play my dev 😂
wintry solar
it shoulda just been an animation of rapid attacks like rampage
I blame the LoL players and Reaper mains
vivid vessel
channels are not even satysfying
glass mortar
i really think kspree in any version that doesnt allow u to spellqueue properly is always going to feel bad
glass mortar
cause law is all about keeping the gcd swinging
vivid vessel
wahts the point
glass mortar
always
vivid vessel
trash
tender wedge
ngl disintegrate chains are kinda nice
fossil lintel
The whole thing of outlaw for the past 3 years has been high apm gameplay, adding the channel alienates the existing playerbase
tender wedge
im gonna play outlaw regardless but MAN AM I READY TO MOAN ABOUT IT
tender wedge
literally me
fossil lintel
I can't wait for ion's mandate to gut outlaw gameplay so I don't feel like coming back to this spec anymore
mighty pivot
imagine the changes they have for midnight 
vivid vessel
idk
it just confusing to me
"people play this spec cause its fast and dynamic etc"
and then
you just
wintry solar
I don't think they're gonna do a whole lot to the spec unless Ion has a spectacular poker face
vivid vessel
slap the longest fucking channel
out of any spec in the game
??
0.8s gcd
BUT
you have a 5s channel
ok buddy
wintry solar
slap the longest fucking channel
Maybe it's because it's fast and dynamic and wanted a way to slow it down? Idk I'm just trying to make sense of it.
wintry solar
Blizz does apparently
vivid vessel
and this doesnt make it slower
this just make you go afk
for 5s
every 20s
and then its fast again
mighty pivot
we are getting an empowered spell, except it will be carefully aiming a gun for 3s frfr
vivid vessel
it doesnt sdlow down the spec
it slow down the spec on the apm chart sure
its not real tho
you still need to do your rotiaton just as fast
when you arent sutkc in a cringe channel
mighty pivot
having a break from constant 0.8s gcd is ok. It just shouldn't be this excessive
lime lake
vivid vessel
having a break from constant 0.8s gcd is ok. It just shouldn't be this excessive
why is it
"ok"
is it better ?
no
its just ok
like everyone i have seen talk about it
tender wedge
we are getting an empowered spell, except it will be carefully aiming a gun for ...
unironically i think i'd rather a 3s empower version lol
vivid vessel
was like
ye its not that bad
its fine
i can get used to it
whjy are we getting a shit spell
that is "ok"
grim spear
maybe ks should be a buff, once activated, it turns into a "shoot" ability that you can spam freely during its duration.
grim spear
Would that feel better?
covert kestrel
Cause realz wants time to jork it mid rotation obvs
mighty pivot
first of all we already have a break in a similar way with live KS
tender wedge
alternative - fix fatebound to not be garbage in aoe and just play that
hollow thunder
Hi beauties, what is the best Shadowmeld Macro atm? I found some with "!" before stealth, with stealth right after shadowmeld cancel, and with another stop attack between shadowmeld cancel and cast stealth? What is diff, what does the "!" before Stealth mean and what is the actual best?
dawn talon
but ho is also just
awful
and so is fatebound
like i dont want to play ho to not get as much cancer from ks
tender wedge
you can just play kir fate
hollow temple
Hi beauties, what is the best Shadowmeld Macro atm? I found some with "!" before...
it doesn't let you exit stealth
when you use !stealth it will only put you into stealth
hollow thunder
it doesn't let you exit stealth
the ! before stealth?
hollow temple
ye
hollow thunder
okay ty m8
craggy barn
god damn gally is a good outlaw fight aside from the ks nonsense
tender wedge
where does it plant you in last phase? or do you still teleport a bit?
was gonna try outlaw next reclear but play FB because i don't want to learn safe KS timings and kill myself or others lol
frail veldt
Hi beauties, what is the best Shadowmeld Macro atm? I found some with "!" before...
! Will delay the meld
I'd suggest not doing that
Wow has built in a buffer so you cant unstealth yourself after stealthing even without a ! Check
vivid vessel
thoughts ?
writting a second set of feedback
this time just trickster and 2p
sorry its white
google doc
mighty pivot
nice flashbang
vivid vessel
(if anyone knows how to have google doc in dark mode btw)
vivid vessel
ok
frail veldt
(if anyone knows how to have google doc in dark mode btw)
Dark reader chrome extension
mighty pivot
well they don't have native support for dark mode so you need to use some kind of extension regardless
don't ask me why drive has dark mode but this one doesn't
torpid fiber
(if anyone knows how to have google doc in dark mode btw)
can't on pc
I wonder if typst has dark mode
mighty pivot
and fazed uptime is a real potential issue considering 2p is rng
vivid vessel
one thing i noticed
lot of times i was swapping target i didnt have fazed on other mobs
compared to now
where its legit perma up on every target
mighty pivot
KS casts are halved so that makes sense. Trickster being dependent on a single spell is very fragile design even between sub and outlaw. Because for instance live outlaw uses KS way more often than sub uses SecTec. But at least sub has Fazed up for most of its burst phase due to using SecTec early. PTR outlaw uses KS about as often as sub uses SecTec, maybe even less.
so fazed uptime is very different just by changing the frequency of whatever triggers ds
vivid vessel
idk it kinda works out tho
we have 100% uptime
cause we are doing damage always
sub has uptime in their cds
cause thats when they do damage
the only thing that is trully not working imo
is the builder requirement
cause it make sense on sub
ss is their only builder
but on outlaw
we have 10 diff builders
and we are forced to press ss
which we cannot
mighty pivot
sub has UB on backstab & shadowstrike, outlaw gets it on SS and ambush. So they prolly went for 1 out of stealth and 1 in stealth ability. But it doesn't work like that in reality
mighty pivot
yes
mighty pivot
that's even worse tbh
mighty pivot
assa got scammed there
vivid vessel
because again
idk
lore
same spell
uhuh
thats funny
both specs press trhe same spell
look daddy blizzard
i did my job well
the tree is for both specs
but same spell
how funny
mf why do i care if its all 1:1
it doesnt work
mighty pivot
vivid vessel
also i hate that our outlaw thread
got fucking
drown
cause of that wave guy
stupid ass
🏄♂️
rotund depot
I swear he asks ChatGPT for braindead takes and then posts whatever it spits out
mighty pivot
I hate it when people get baited and start arguing
just post your feedback and move on
tender wedge
wild that blizz asks for all feedback to go on their official forums, surely they know it's a den of cooked takes and perma-mad people just wanting to screech into the void
mighty pivot
also
tender wedge
imagine trying to find some quality constructive criticism amongst all that
vivid vessel
wild that blizz asks for all feedback to go on their official forums, surely the...
these forums should just have a 5 hour slow mode or whatever
mighty pivot
why doesn't blizzard create threads for each spec/class instead of leaving it FFA and having 10 DK threads, 15 spriest threads etc
wintry solar
Blade rush
vivid vessel
so people cant do that
hollow temple
these forums should just have a 5 hour slow mode or whatever
make it 24
wintry solar
Sleight of Hand and Loaded Dice
In tandem
CQQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAMwMzMzMGGzgZMYmZmxMzMtNjZZGAAAAAAmllZmZmhhlxMLjBAAAgZGgBz2sZmZGNzsxsxy20CLGA
mighty pivot
blade rush enjoyer
tender wedge
maybe he knows something we don't
rotund depot
👍
🏄♂️🏄♀️
tender wedge
like where to buy the cheapest meth
wintry solar
He knows how to be bad
mighty pivot
sleight of hand should give all its boost to 5 roll if you have loaded dice active 
wintry solar
Ninja has spoken
mighty pivot
but that would make too much sense
wintry solar
CQQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAMwMzMzMGGzgZMYmZmxMzMtNjZZGAAAAAAmllZmZmhhlxMLjBAAAgZ...
That's his build btw
Someone sim this
I can't on mobile
mighty pivot
bro he has no UHUH
wintry solar
How did I not catch that
wintry solar
bro he has no UHUH
His feedback is just as important btw
tender wedge
true, his sub costs the same as ours i guess
wintry solar
His should cost more
mighty pivot
simming patchwerk
wintry solar
Oh boy
mighty pivot
raidbots is scamming me and I'm going UP in queue. That's not how queues work!
tender wedge
raidbots silently objecting to the atrocity you've asked it to commit
sudden fulcrum
that's how they get ya
mighty pivot
well I canceled my premium after turbo boost. It's now vault lottery for 2 items anyway
sudden fulcrum
is that $2/month hurting your bank account?
tender wedge
i got the haste/vers chest from my one m+ slot this week, i say gamble away
mighty pivot
is that $2/month hurting your bank account?
yeah now I can buy more cat treats
bro that guy sims 798k dps
wintry solar
raidbots is scamming me and I'm going UP in queue. That's not how queues work!
"This that mfing build that Mafic guy runs, I ain't simming this shit." -Raidbots probably.
tender wedge
and his voice is just as loud as Zacs
mighty pivot
oh it's pvp gear
wintry solar
He's got 0 pvp rating
sudden fulcrum
yeah now I can buy more cat treats
save up for the self cleaning litterbox also
wintry solar
This is like
sudden fulcrum
i have one and my cat decided she doesn't like it 
mighty pivot
pvp outlaw still uses UHUH surely
wintry solar
pvp outlaw still uses UHUH surely
Yeah
mighty pivot
I am scared of self cleaning litterboxes and my cats are scared of their own shadows too
wintry solar
Mafic is the polar opposite of Zac.
mighty pivot
I know blizzard won't take his opinion into account, but I am curious how it would go if they gave him full designer powers for one day
make a corrupted wish foundation
wintry solar
WoD combat most definitely
I'm going through his post history out of curiosity
And that's the take away I'm getting
Combat Andies
tender wedge
WoD combat most definitely
so like...frozen in time from when official forums were last taken seriously by anyone other than blizzz
mighty pivot
lil bro has 22k posts on the forums btw
mighty pivot
22 thousand posts
wintry solar
He pays a sub to TALK ON THE FORUMS
tender wedge
this is a funny wow forum poster stereotype i have stuck in my head, wasn't expecting it to be that accurate tbh
tender wedge
last phase is a pretty steady dance
mighty pivot
and he joined nov 2018
tender wedge
if you can reliably get there you'll kill pretty fast
mighty pivot
about 9 posts a day for a little under 7 years
frail veldt
cause of that wave guy
Lololol wait what happened?
wintry solar
He existed
frail veldt
I missed the lore
mighty pivot
I am obsessed about how detailed the activity statistics are tbh
median lance
What would you think about a talent that gives us all our dice at the start of combat called - The House Always Wins
vivid vessel
he just spammed our thread
sudden fulcrum
it's funny how Blizzard recognizes how frustrating RNG is in other parts of the game but somehow it's the centerpiece of an entire specialization
vivid vessel
there is like
frail veldt
On the forums?
mighty pivot
he read 500k posts lol
frail veldt
Wonderful
vivid vessel
the cool outlaw thread
with civilized people
he came in here
and jsut argued
with others
mighty pivot
how do you read half a million posts
vivid vessel
stupid mf made our thread unreadable
and i was reading every message till he came
master yapper
stuck sparrow
What would you think about a talent that gives us all our dice at the start of c...
Personally I think a hero talent that let you pick one buff to always be included in rolls
mighty pivot
is there no block functionality on the forums
mighty pivot
I mean fatebound already games chances, except it does it with the coins instead of dice
so we have coin flips, we have dice, we only need cards to be added somehow
mighty pivot
not the same kind of rng though
tender wedge
i mean it IS an rng talent lol
mighty pivot
oh it is
tender wedge
just a bit one dimensional
mighty pivot
but it's a normal chance one instead of our dice or coins
mighty pivot
mf ult would at least be uncapped aoe
wintry solar
literally gearing a outlaw rogue for it XD
Caused more problems than it solved
Altho the one it solved was very big
So I'll give it that
@hollow temple I don't try to be a contrarian but I've no idea why spinning around shooting guns is so hyped
hollow temple
its just a cool type of ability ppl like from other games as well
dawn talon
id like more samira r and less reaper q but w/e
wintry solar
It's corny as all hell to me
wintry solar
its just a cool type of ability ppl like from other games as well
Why don't they play those games?
dawn talon
people do in fact play more than one game
wintry solar
No wayyyyy
lone spear
mfw people like stuff 
dawn talon
i don't know what there is to not get
lone spear
some people get hyped for xalatath's feet
wintry solar
Yeah, weirdos
lone spear
it is what it is
wintry solar
The name is a bit. Like stealthless pistol shot
Don't let it fool you. I dislike even my own feet.
Sleep with socks gang
sudden fulcrum
i miss when that game was good
wintry solar
https://tenor.com/view/overwatch-overwatch-league-gladiators-gladiator-los-angel...
Has the same energy as Monster by Skillet
mighty pivot
Sleep with socks gang
that's disgusting
wintry solar
It's okay I take showers
mighty pivot
every month?
wintry solar
Fake outlaw fan I know
lime lake
i miss when that game was good
theres still good parts
wintry solar
every month?
No, what?
lime lake
not in the game but
subtle eagle
I really don't like killing spree, but they should have replaced it with something that fits I think. I was thinking "x marks the spot" "Target an enemy unit, for the next 'x' seconds launch a volley of cannonballs dealing damage to it and units around it, this damage increases for all combo points spent on this unit for during its duration."
sudden fulcrum
you're a little late to rework killing spree
lone spear
we are more like GP than MF
wintry solar
I'd have preferred an fof type thing or something similar personally. The new one is something I'd think was cool when I was like 15 or something.
lone spear
but who knows, maybe outlaw turns ranged gun dual wielder after the rogue rework thats for sure coming in midnight 
wintry solar
But regardless, it's still a huge upgrade
wintry solar
but who knows, maybe outlaw turns ranged gun dual wielder after the rogue rework...
Ion says outlaw too hard
WoD combat inc
lone spear
i mean, "too hard" is a relative comment, i assume he means for like the average player
wintry solar
I wonder how many people like bandits guile
lone spear
to be fair outlaw is hard in a mechanical way
like, literal physical skill
which while we all probs find cool, i imagine is what they want to move away from
subtle eagle
I mean yeah but the hardest part I think is standing close enough to blade flurry everything now
wintry solar
A lot of moving parts yeah
subtle eagle
Ret paladin can use almost all its melee casts from so far away
lone spear
for example arcane is generally hard, but not because of button pressing and reacting to stuff, but from a decision making standpoint
subtle eagle
I have to be up a units butt to hit it with ambush now
lone spear
you usually have a whole cast time to think about next button
hybrid crown
im way too dumb for arcane
lone spear
meanwhile law has 0.8s to react to an ace proc
wintry solar
I spam ts out of buttons between the gcd
lone spear
and outlaw is punishing in a way that hurts gameplay, not just damage
if you forget to send an arcane barrage right before a touch of the magi, its just a dam loss
if someone doesnt do the rotation well as outlaw, theyre dropping AR and have to play a spec as slow as cata outlaw
which is just unfun
so the less skilled you are, the less fun you have, which is toxic af from a design standpoint
wintry solar
I'm not getting into it. Gonna ruin my night lol
hybrid crown
Cata outlaw was fast but spammy and super simple
lone spear
idk man im playing it rn and outside of AR, this shit slow as hell
wintry solar
I will say I miss before UHUH where I just took the L of not having adrenaline rush. Uhuh on top of all the changes that came with it like the energy nerf is so Zzz
lone spear
maybe i just need way better gear
tender wedge
ryu was right
You can’t say this
hybrid crown
The leggo dagger helps with adr
lone spear
gotta grind professions 
hybrid crown
It's like getting a 7 ace window every time it procs
lime lake
You can’t say this
we leave out all of the incredibly problematic things he said
just the funny haste bit
wintry solar
Seperate the art from the artist
lone spear
type shit
tender wedge
Is smearing poop on a wall art?
grim spear
thoughts ?
how about... just letting Feint trigger UB again? I actually think that would be pretty good.
After all, that was the original design
and honestly feels better than the . .. last-minute change.
wintry solar
I still want to try it. I need to come to my own conclusion. Otherwise I don't get closure and will always be on the fence.
dense bridge
what could they rework our mastery into
wintry solar
They could make it so builders deal % more damage which is the boring but safe option
Or maybe % chance of additional buffs from rtb
The world is your oyster
dense bridge
building it around rtb could be interesting
wintry solar
The problem with interesting masteries is that they're usually never good.
dense bridge
i guess
wintry solar
Probably why so many are the same
dense bridge
hit combo is good on ww but i think if they all dictated a playstyle like that it'd be kinda eh
hollow thunder
do we still play charged Bolts? Because like the 20 first rogues on Raider still have it on Belt, or is it buggy?
sudden fulcrum
no it got nerfed
see pins
also copying people on raider.io is dumb and now you know why
hollow thunder
kk
torpid fiber
Eh, I think they did the right thing here
They saw something that seemed odd, weren't sure what was up, and asked
that's exactly the correct thing to do
wintry solar
Now the knowledge to skip the 1st step is known
torpid fiber
I think it's worth checking tbh
dense bridge
what do you fellers all reckon the design intent and philosophy of outlaw rogue to be
lone spear
pirate yarr
dense bridge
i mean like mechanically
lone spear
oh
its clearly intended to be a fast paced spec with a few core buttons that have different conditions for when to press
but i think over time that identity has slowly been eroded by crackshot warping the entire spec around it
torpid fiber
what do you fellers all reckon the design intent and philosophy of outlaw rogue ...
fairly simple builder/spender rotation with a focus on consistent speed, procs, and roll the bones to provide additional rotational feel variance.
lone spear
i for one enjoy both this and the pre-crackshot versions of outlaw, but we are in an awkward middle ground where there is another version of outlaw that someone must think can exist, since talents like blade rush* and GSW exist
torpid fiber
fairly simple builder/spender rotation with a focus on consistent speed, procs, ...
No real burst windows in the same senses lots of other specs have them
dense bridge
bfa and sl outlaw were quite fun
torpid fiber
SL outlaw rocked
I much prefer rtb as a cd to the bfa finisher version, I think it does its job better
wintry solar
i for one enjoy both this and the pre-crackshot versions of outlaw, but we are i...
Don't forget the CB in outlaws FB bonus
I think outlaw got it because something to do with assa
Idk
Seems like they're trying to make it work without putting in the effort needed
Dispatch crits are laughable at best
lone spear
CB is just a weird talent in general
so damn weak
cause no spec has a single strong attack
torpid fiber
cold blood just doesn't make sense for outlaw in general, it's in the class tree bc other two specs + flavour but it's completely pointless for us
Oh does it also suck for the other two
Then it's just bad
lone spear
i think sub uses it
cause they dont care for vanish or energy (cause theyre capped in cds)
its like the least dog option
wintry solar
It doesn't even increase the dmg lol
lone spear
is it not fucked up that SUBTLETY rogue doesnt like vanish
torpid fiber
I'm sure it's a fun ability for casuals who look at the floating damage numbers
I have floating damage numbers on I think but I literally never look at them so I have no clue if I do
sharp moat
Now the knowledge to skip the 1st step is known
you cant know that you dont know what you dont know, if you dont know if its even knowleable
wintry solar
is it not fucked up that SUBTLETY rogue doesnt like vanish
I think about this all the time
And I think it's unfair how assa and sub have moments where they don't have to play double vanish if they don't want to
Not that I dislike vanish or anything
But
Kinda unfair
Maybe I want to run SC/Tea builds
dense bridge
im not particularly a fan of underhanded upperhand because i feel like it also forces that
wintry solar
It does
lone spear
whats funny is they removed the SnD extension from it thinking its a nerf
torpid fiber
Half of UHUH is awesome (not losing ADR between packs) the other half is awkward (infinitely extending adr)
lone spear
but we still legit never care about SnD
torpid fiber
classic andies
wintry solar
What was the word
dense bridge
but i feel like i never have to press it
wintry solar
Tradition
torpid fiber
you don't have to press it
sacred saddle
did they not remove the SnD extension from it when they added the extension as a baseline passive for all rogue specs?
lone spear
its the paradox of nostalgia
torpid fiber
They added it back in SL for rogue and then between then and now all three specs have been given a way to never have to think about it
ability is stupid
lone spear
we dont get rid of SnD because then it would be weird
dense bridge
their foul stench reached also and made smf into a meme
torpid fiber
So now SnD is just a random minmax button for insane key gamers
dense bridge
So now SnD is just a random minmax button for insane key gamers
i think thats what the problem is with rogue's design
lone spear
whats sad is i like this gameplay, but the class tree is trash, and we need more gameplay options
especially if we dont get big changes each patch like mage/hunter/shaman
dense bridge
in the hands of the common player its kinda like a gordian knot to untangle but for the more advanced players with forbidden eldritch knowledge its like the ultimate godkiller supreme
torpid fiber
Nah snd isn't even that good when minmaxed
dense bridge
not just snd i mean overall rogue
lone spear
rogue really is just "push through the jank to find mediocre damage"
torpid fiber
The literal only usages are using it to convert combo points into cdr between packs and that's usually not worth it but it's had various bugs over time that make that slightly stronger
I think high skill ceilings are good tbh
dense bridge
whats sad is i like this gameplay, but the class tree is trash, and we need more...
tell me about it, im a sv main started in bfa
lone spear
same, but the skill floor is also too high
torpid fiber
Yeah the issue is that the barrier to entry is too high
dense bridge
one day the sun will rise and vanquish the horrible night
dense bridge
im looking forward to trying it in legion classic
wintry solar
I miss 5cp rogue
torpid fiber
All the current combo point sources means 7cp just feels like 5cp but it feels worse to low roll
wintry solar
7cp doesn't really add anything other than making lows feel worse
More cdr I guess but we don't really need that
lone spear
i mean my main hope with outlaw going into midnight is that they change AR and resources as a whole
wintry solar
I'd like to have energy back into the equation personally.
lone spear
either make it a 50% uptime like s1 dragonflight (guy's preferences)
or make it literally we just have it as a passive
(my sadistic preference)
dense bridge
it would be interesting if there were some kind of like
wintry solar
Rn you either have infinite energy or none and at all and it's sooooo lame
dense bridge
actual build options or if it were designed with playing either 1h+dagger or dw 1h like how fdk accounts for dw/2h
torpid fiber
HO and KIR do play meaningfully differently, no?
lone spear
ehhhhh
torpid fiber
They're both crackshot builds but that doesn't mean they're the same
lone spear
theyre like twins
wintry solar
Crackshot overshadows any differences they have. They're like twins but ones a boy and the other is a girl
lone spear
you can tell them apart by asking questions, but they both basically do the same shit
wintry solar
theyre like twins
Jinx
lone spear
ill send the soda by mail, idk how long itll take to get to NA from aus
wintry solar
That's fine. I bought a slushy machine so I'll use it on that if it's flat.
lone spear
Crackshot overshadows any differences they have. They're like twins but ones a b...
also this. like KiR is so weak as a button (especially this season) that it doesnt really change that much
wintry solar
The talents that make the differences between the builds aren't that powerful yeah
As long as you've got crackshot, uhuh, and ace, you're viable.
To a degree
lone spear
just need some looking at is my hope. my copium is that realz was busy designing the totally real 3rd dh spec and so he was busy and couldnt fix us this patch, instead our stuff is pushed to midnight
dense bridge
ill take whatever
wintry solar
Idk if I can handle another spec of dh players
dense bridge
just a "the wheels are in motion" would be enough
lone spear
fix is a strong word tbf outlaw is fine and fun, but just yaknow, i want changes and stuff im jealous of hunters and mages
i wanna go into a patch and think "wow new thingy thats cool, how does this affect my rotation"
wintry solar
This outlaw rn is a 6/10 for me personally. It's fine
lone spear
dragonflight was truly peak for outlaw man
dense bridge
fix is a strong word tbf outlaw is fine and fun, but just yaknow, i want changes...
rogue players need to complain like hunter and mage players then
wintry solar
I was too worried about the future in df
torpid fiber
rogue players need to complain like hunter and mage players then
Please don't tell rogue players to complain more we already do enough of it as is
dense bridge
wintry solar
It gets drowned out by
👍
🏄 🏄♀️
sacred saddle
rogue players need to complain like hunter and mage players then
all 3 rogue players vs the endless legions
dense bridge
much like how a lot of mm hunter feedback was drowned out by "DO NOT TAKE MY PET AWAY THAT DOES NOT INTERACT WITH MY SPEC IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
lone spear
and so they invented an entirely new mechanic where this eagle they have can fucking loot corpses automatically
like we in lost ark or something
lone spear
meanwhile us: "e-excuse me mr. r-realz. the really cringe subterfuge bug is still here after a year. m-maybe we can get a small fix to it?"
wintry solar
👉 👈 🥺
sudden fulcrum
dense bridge
what are the hero talents supposed to be themed after
dense bridge
like deathstalker has a cool strong background and even better is horde themed
wintry solar
Other than Deathstalker
dense bridge
like rets got "ok are you a light worshipping silver hand paladin or a sun worshipping tauren paladin"
wintry solar
They fit wow really well too. It's a shame they're not at all fleshed out
DK got Shadowlands power
With Deathbringer
lone spear
fatebound shouldve tried less to be "oh im so mysterious and cool look at me flip my coin" and more "LETS GO GAMBLIIING!!!!"
sudden fulcrum
i dunno i don't think RNG has a place in a spec. RNG is demonstrably not fun
wintry solar
I would've preferred a bounty hunter
sudden fulcrum
no one wants to perform poorly because of factors outside of their control
dense bridge
yeah they couldve themed it after like
mighty pivot
crit removed because it's rng
torpid fiber
I think rng feels bad when individual rng calls are high impact
lone spear
thats for sure more of an old wow thing
wintry solar
Like 0 Ace procs
lone spear
except for like, MM hunter
wintry solar
Makes me want to reroll everytime
torpid fiber
if for some weird reason e.g. sub got into a spot where it used all its cds and then one single huge damage ability and whether or not that ability crit was a major dps influencer, that would be garbage
wintry solar
Uhdk and blood beast
sudden fulcrum
warlock used to have a mechanic called Soul Flame where enemies exploded when they died. however, it didn't do this for every warlock in the group/raid. so it was random which one got the Soul Flame and whoever got more basically did the most damage
it sucked ass
dense bridge
they kinda have a thing for wanting to make people feel "special" or "unique"
wintry solar
My mom said I was special
torpid fiber
Any situation where individual rng calls are high impact sucks
rng in general though is fun when it impacts the rotation imo
Fatebound rng is kinda cringe
wintry solar
Fatebound rng is also pretty much gone next season
lone spear
as sad as it is, from playing PTR i actually just want FB to be the play everywhere
like the KS redesign is cool and will get better
torpid fiber
I won't play it though. Void theme stuff is so Zzz
I'm so excited for it I love the brokers and I love this kind of void stuff in wow
wintry solar
It feels like fan service
dense bridge
i ought to take a gander at the tier sets
wintry solar
Made up as they're going along
lone spear
nexus king looks so fucking cool
torpid fiber
I just like the colours and shapes
lone spear
that fight is gonna be peak
wintry solar
I wonder if we're getting more spec changes
dense bridge
hopefully
wintry solar
Celerity would be hot
Also
I don't get why every talent needs to be impactful to people
Why can't we just have a beneficial passive
"This talent doesn't do anything >:["
Okay but it makes the spec play better
torpid fiber
I'm fine with boring talents near the top/middle of the tree
wintry solar
I'm applying to blizz and bringing outlaw back to the drawing board
dense bridge
i wonder what the ethereal racials will be
lone spear
gimmie a pirate ship i can board and shoot from as a CD
dense bridge
dreadblades the revengeance
lone spear
gimmie gankplanks barrels that i can set up in a line and then shoot to do big boom
wintry solar
gimmie a pirate ship i can board and shoot from as a CD
Is a reskin of breath of sindragosa good?
wintry solar
gimmie gankplanks barrels that i can set up in a line and then shoot to do big b...
I can do that
lone spear
replace crimson vial with a bottle of rum
wintry solar
CV gets 2 charges
lone spear
(just flavour we really should have more alchy in the spec)
dense bridge
i wonder why people have a visceral hatred/dislike of pirates
dense bridge
pirates are cool
wintry solar
i wonder why people have a visceral hatred/dislike of pirates
Because it was a pirate in legion and bfa had a couple pirates in it
lone spear
well we would think so xdd
wintry solar
And plunderstorm existed
torpid fiber
I don't really like pirates as an aesthetic so I get it
wintry solar
Replace crimson vial with adding a health potion to my inventory
Based, valid, and a secret 3rd thing.
Give outlaw a keg similar to lock cookies
lone spear
bring back bribe but make it work on shit properly
wintry solar
But instead of health, it grants mainstat or something
lone spear
i wanna bribe goblins in motherlode
wintry solar
Haste
Idk
I wish we had the amount of pirate stuff people seem to act like we have.
dense bridge
people seem to associate gun with pirate
lone spear
they need to just commit man
dense bridge
like if you kinda squint and look at it with half of your hand over your eye i can see it
mighty pivot
our dice buffs are very pirate themed
lone spear
like what the fuck theme is "combat rogue"
sudden fulcrum
well there are at least 3 gun abilities right?
lone spear
stupidest shit i ever seen
wintry solar
stupidest shit i ever seen
Fr
dense bridge
but just imagine like getting into a close quarters fight with somebody and then they pull out a gun and shoot you
wintry solar
Honestly idk what the difference is between combat and modern outlaw in terms of theme
lone spear
"ah yes my combat knowledge allows me to gain a deep insight"
sudden fulcrum
i don't think point blank gun attacks are ideal, but they're likely still effective
wintry solar
"ah yes my combat knowledge allows me to gain a deep insight"
☝️🤓
Damn combat andies
lone spear
fr combat is legit nerd spec
wintry solar
I have a theory
dense bridge
the theming for outlaw seems pretty straight forward to me, like youre a bandit who can be sneaky but you'd only really wanna leverage that in fights
wintry solar
About spec names
wintry solar
the theming for outlaw seems pretty straight forward to me, like youre a bandit ...
Combat had that too
Not as much though
wintry solar
I have a theory
I think the specializations were originally moreso the aspect of your class, not necessarily the specs. Like for rogue for example, you talent into more stealth talents with Subtlety talents, modifiers with Assassination, and general Combat talents with Combat.
Because
This logic holds up with priest, shaman, warrior, and paladin
dense bridge
ah yes i am the outlaw that is far more reliant on stealth compared to my wacked out shadow subtlety brethren and also my good friend the hired assassin
wintry solar
ah yes i am the outlaw that is far more reliant on stealth compared to my wacked...
This is dumb though
Because yeah thats it
Though I don't really care. It's just not as fun to me as it could be. Vanish or not.
mighty pivot
vanish's issues are functional, not thematic imo. It does fit into outlaw playing dirty and disappearing for a split second to gain an advantage (crackshot in this case)
that subtlety has no good use of vanish that's another issue
wintry solar
Functionaly I prefer not to but thematically idc one way or the other for vanish
But
Subterfuge?
Only negative
fathom bramble
the biggest problem with vanish is that if you are slow then it constantly resets combat
while you are suppose to be using it as a primary damage cooldown
wintry solar
There are work arounds but personally I'd rather just not worry about it
frank finch
in horrific visions that tilts the fuck out of me
mighty pivot
yes that's the main functional issue with it. It's as if they didn't take solo content into account
fathom bramble
and the problem isn't new or anything
we been casting vanish for DPS for like 10 years
most of the last 10 years*
the time it takes for vanish to actually drop aggro should just be made more consistent
for the sake of trying to drop combat and trying not to drop combat
wintry solar
I meant using vanish for dps
fathom bramble
oh
wintry solar
Also
fathom bramble
well we both know outlaw nearly always gets more out of vanish than the other 2
wintry solar
Yeah
I'm just coming from a place of envy tbh
Maybe midnight is the one
Maybe if our mastery was better, we'd have more tea builds
fathom bramble
tea really should just be replaced
it isn't really serving the purpose of being an energy tool effectively
basically all the value on it is in the mastery and it's just a damage boost
wintry solar
Tea could grant adrenaline rush >.>
fathom bramble
make it a damage boost that is at least more functional
wintry solar
Crack open a white monster
fathom bramble
replace it with anticipation 🤔
fathom bramble
imagine if Vanish actually worked reliably and worked after a consistent amount of time
instead of sometimes not working or sometimes working instantly
wintry solar
Missing her (vanish into ambush)
Things were simpler back then
I had no bills
My only care in the world was not sleeping in past morning cartoons
Wacky Races
Cookie crisps
wintry solar
Cookie crisps
These suck btw. Idk how they kept showing up in the pantry.
fathom bramble
they kind of look like dog food tbh
wintry solar
Taste like it
dense bridge
cookie crisp used to be good back in the day
wintry solar
Debatable
muted sphinx
any news about the tomelvis bug ?
torpid fiber
calling him a bug is pretty rude smh
random stirrup
allowing a filthy aug in your key? Smh
static geyser
how much haste do I need for KiR unbuffed?
next wedge
we had to break the meta
tribal oasis
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
hot island
!guide
ornate heathBOT
Outlaw Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/outlaw-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/outlaw-rogue
hot island
!video
any video guide or any streamer that you guys would recommend that has the addons that show last button presses? 🙂
inland acorn
sick ingot
yo guys, is there something iam missing... the weapon switch macro to nightfall offhand always tells me "you cannot do that during a key" but those streamers are able to :/
sick ingot
aaaah wanted to for bosses
vivid vessel
nah its bad anyway
sick ingot
but than ill stick to the crowd
vivid vessel
its like a ramping weapon
sick ingot
a thx mate ❤️
gaunt tulip
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vivid vessel
before
brisk meadow
oh
vivid vessel
vanish gives a (1?s) root imuntiy
paladin can do the same
with freedom
on these mobs
brisk meadow
so to soon or too late will not work?
brisk meadow
kk
vivid vessel
for ks its easier cause the root imunity lingers
for like 1s
after it ends
so you have a very long window
vivid vessel
np noob
brisk meadow
livid pewter
vanish gives a (1?s) root imuntiy
should be like 3 sec starting from the moment u press vanish
vivid vessel
nah
its not 3s
thats for sure
unless you stay in vanish
maybe
but we dont do that
I mean idk
but its not 3s
livid pewter
its just at the moment u press vanish theres a 3 sec buff ticking down, it sounds " a lot" but it goes by pretty quick
vivid vessel
ok but there is no way its 3s
3s is a lot
and i know the timing is short
- it was the same on queen ansurek
where you could vanish before the roots
livid pewter
ye ik on webs
livid pewter
ye idk either, i just see the buff ticking down which is ment to be 3sec but like if u press vanish until you are able to press aynthing there is almost 1 sec gone kinda
but usually i play around it with killingspree cuz theres a huge window u not gettin knocked or rooted after you land with ks
wintry solar
That 3 seconds is the "improved stealth" so you're not immediately knocked out of stealth by random tick dmg
I didn't read the paper so idk what yall are talking about
livid pewter
That 3 seconds is the "improved stealth" so you're not immediately knocked out o...
ye well i just read it in vanish tooltip, didnt check what this buff was since i dont care at all 😄 but there is a smoll window after vanish what zac said, where ure not gettin rooted which might actually be around 1 sec
wintry solar
It's be cool though
obsidian walrus
is it worth switching from Precise Cuts to GS for 15-16 keys
in pug groups
in HO build
wintry solar
No
obsidian walrus
kk
wintry solar
You can actually
But
You'd have to drop cto for precise cuts
Which frankly, there shouldn't be a build without CtO
Just because you can doesn't mean you should
tribal oasis
for new 11.2 trickster tier set, kir 1fth is looking better than ho? (didnt find a ptr channel to ask)
wintry solar
Just because you can doesn't mean you should
I don't heed this advice because I do what I want.
wintry solar
for new 11.2 trickster tier set, kir 1fth is looking better than ho? (didnt find...
We're reading the same book, you're just a couple chapters ahead. You know what I'm saying?
Solo said HO may be looking better
But we don't know for sure
tribal oasis
yea, i like HO better, even more at pug keys, but i remember when we had CdG double cast bug, KIR was a ahead of HO. That’s why I was asking how is looking for 11.2
wintry solar
About thiiiiiiiiiis big
It's aight though
Killing Spree reworked solved a problem but caused new ones. FB tier set low-key goated while trickster kinda mid
stiff estuary
hey, i still ignore anbush with KIR builds?
green token
Ah right, sounds good
Asking cause I’m wondering if I should reroll or not for s3
Or if outlaw gonna still be Gucci next s
wintry solar
If you like outlaw now, you'll probably like it more next season tbh
vivid vessel
ok thats false
green token
If you like outlaw now, you'll probably like it more next season tbh
Yeah I do atm
wintry solar
Nah
green token
ok thats false
Which part?
vivid vessel
its super fucking shit to play on ptr rn
green token
All the rogue specs I think I saw a bit ago are looking rough no?
green token
Kk
wintry solar
All the rogue specs I think I saw a bit ago are looking rough no?
I think assa like their deathstalker tier set
Something about shiv consuming a buff or something idk. I only play real specs. But they're happy.
green token
Sigma
shy meteor
its super fucking shit to play on ptr rn
Why? I thought there are no such big changes 
wintry solar
Why? I thought there are no such big changes <:coup_de_grace:1231513160163524758...
KS and trickster suck
Channel too long, cp gen from ks, etc
vivid vessel
Why? I thought there are no such big changes <:coup_de_grace:1231513160163524758...
ks super suck, 2p trickster super suck, forces you to press ss on cd, and the whole trikcster loop got bricked by ks increased cd
also you do 0 fucking damage
stiff estuary
but you can cancel ks right?
hollow temple
ks super suck, 2p trickster super suck, forces you to press ss on cd, and the wh...
sorry you hate everything, zac
past sphinx
wheres realz at
vivid vessel
all that i said are valid complaints
shy meteor
Back to being a slot machine, throwing out coins left and right