you arent a good m+ spec
#outlaw
proven ocean
?
vivid vessel
idk why people always talk ab out st
proven ocean
why would i not know that
waxen acorn
that would only be 4 seconds then no? at max CP+ supercharge?
proven ocean
you just take aoe blasters
they're all doing perfect st
so idk what ur talking about
its never heavily aoe oriented
its always all around classes
waxen acorn
its always all around classes
that's not true at all
fathom bramble
that would only be 4 seconds then no? at max CP+ supercharge?
yes
proven ocean
that's not true at all
fathom bramble
and all the spells we are comparing to that sit at 3 seconds would be 2.4 in realistic situations as well
or even lower
waxen acorn
<:Dentge:1229191197944451153>
yeah that's why the worst performing single target spec in the game exists in the meta right now
maybe not actually the worst but balance is really nothing to write home about in terms of single target
proven ocean
yeah that's why the worst performing single target spec in the game exists in th...
and which spec is that smart guy
waxen acorn
see above
proven ocean
maybe not actually the worst but balance is really nothing to write home about i...
balance low st
ur so clueless
its crazy
waxen acorn
So you want to tell me that balance is good at single target?
vivid vessel
they're all doing perfect st
brother every tier
you have like
a bunhc of specs
that do more st
than the meta specs
that are never played
fossil lintel
that would only be 4 seconds then no? at max CP+ supercharge?
Yes but do note that is 5gcds for us
proven ocean
So you want to tell me that balance is good at single target?
?
vivid vessel
acrtually its kinda easy
look at melee comp
we have infinite more st
than meta comp
waxen acorn
or that Shadow Priest was great at single target in S3 of DF?
Or Destro lock when it was meta in SL?
proven ocean
@waxen acorn WOW BOOMKIN IS BAD
casually top boss dmg on a rank 1 world key
on 21 pure st
vivid vessel
thats funny you send that screenshot
waxen acorn
it's almost always the specs that just pop off in aoe and aren't limited unless they do something so much better than everything else that fills a niche like Arcane
vivid vessel
because melee comp does infinite more st than this, and this is a terrible melee boss
proven ocean
any spec that does 2m st is already perfect
waxen acorn
every spec is capable of 2m in keys at this ilvl
rigid basin
xd
waxen acorn
I would be surprised if you couldn't do 2m in st in keys (boss mechanics aside)
vivid vessel
they have better timers than you
ok?
mighty pivot
are timers from ST only now?
vivid vessel
mate
fossil lintel
He probably asked chatgpt to come up with an answer again
waxen acorn
he's just proving that you don't have to be smart to have a high io
vivid vessel
it doesnt
proven ocean
i cba with this in any way to argue about this
vivid vessel
we dont
proven ocean
exactly
every dungeon route is based on funnel
so they naturally do same st if not higher in many keys
vivid vessel
ye cant wait to go in m+ with my raid build
remember in sl when we played ww in keys
bro that shit
was doing tank damage in st
was so funnty
most broken spec in the game tho
lone crow
sl u didnt push on tyra when ww was meta tho
vivid vessel
aaah
proven ocean
sl u didnt push on tyra when ww was meta tho
^
vivid vessel
that doesnt matter
proven ocean
zac is just trying to be annoying
vivid vessel
?
proven ocean
hes clueless
vivid vessel
I do
vivid vessel
ye
rigid basin
proven ocean
yes
late swallow
Dps race stream?
proven ocean
st
vivid vessel
then you invent stuffs
proven ocean
?
zac
literally every dungeon has only 1 pure st fight max
rare where few dungeons dont have funnel
very rare
fossil lintel
<a:cat_popcorn:1378916897403441192>
They do this every Mon, wed and fri
rigid basin
They do this every Mon, wed and fri
Yeah it's entertaining every time
proven ocean
im confused
glass mortar
He's arguing the top meta specs rn don't have strong pure st dps
rigid basin
Esp during work
waxen acorn
Obviously this isn't a great 1:1 because it's different content but it is also going to give the most favorable environment for pure ST and Balance is not it
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/42?metric=bossdps&dataset=95
glass mortar
U seem to be agreeing but saying that doesn't work
While refusing to admit they don't have good st
random stirrup
what ilvl is raid testing zac
glass mortar
Don't think said at anypoint st is super important?
vivid vessel
a crazy take
glass mortar
He's saying the opposite
vivid vessel
ok ?
proven ocean
kinda funny or?
vivid vessel
i did 2.8
proven ocean
ok
vivid vessel
nice screenshot bozo
cold jewel
guys
cold jewel
my sleep schedule is so fucked
proven ocean
3:37
proven ocean
i dont think ur comp will ever do that timer even tho the entire dungeon is boss dmg based?
i find that weird
or?
proven ocean
1st boss
vivid vessel
idk
waxen acorn
it's almost like 85% of the dungeons are aoe
proven ocean
and last boss?
vivid vessel
you are litteraly proving my point for whatever reason
proven ocean
i dont think so
vivid vessel
bro arguing with himself
nocturne folio
u think ur gonna do arcane dmg
thats the point...
timber knoll
Do yall ever be like “babe not now I’m arguing on discord”
proven ocean
hes saying meta comp has shit st
when they literally have more bnoss dmg
than you
its crazy
and they only lose in pure st
nocturne folio
hes saying meta comp has shit st
and st isnt boss damage all the time
waxen acorn
they don't, I do more damage on my Evoker in ST lmao
late swallow
Zac and ross beef is a leading economic indicator. We’re heading into a recession
vivid vessel
idk im just checking our random 22
vivid vessel
glass mortar
Is it possible they r worse st but r overcoming it some way
Like dragging funnel mobs
:))
vivid vessel
proven ocean
i dont mean to be rude but hopeful sucks balls i have more boss dmg on almost every log i compare to with funnel than him
check hearthjacks
waxen acorn
Like dragging funnel mobs
or possibly enabling larger pulls
vivid vessel
there isnt a log from him so
timber knoll
I never even really thought of discord as a place to post all day yall are doing it for the love of the game I respect
glass mortar
It's so funny zac literally agrees with Ross about st not mattering for being the key timing thing
But Ross is still arguing somehow
Even tho he admitted they lose on the pure st bosses
waxen acorn
i dont mean to be rude but hopeful sucks balls i have more boss dmg on almost ev...
and yet he has higher io than you
glass mortar
That was the entire point
proven ocean
idk zac, they're not really going that much faster in aoe they just pull alot more bigger and their boss timers are usually same
glass mortar
Their st is not good
late swallow
Built diff
craggy barn
🍿
glass mortar
It doesnt matter
vivid vessel
idk zac, they're not really going that much faster in aoe they just pull alot mo...
aaah
so they have better aoe
proven ocean
and yet he has higher io than you
my team first to get resil 20 on eu btw, before hopeful's team and we stopped
craggy barn
can u buy wow tokens on the steam summer sale
proven ocean
kinda crazy how stupid u are griff guy
waxen acorn
doesn't matter
vivid vessel
they werent playing on live
waxen acorn
washed
lime lake
vivid vessel
they were on mdi
proven ocean
u have no idea on what happens in the ladders
vivid vessel
so
proven ocean
ur clueless
vivid vessel
idk
fossil lintel
can u buy wow tokens on the steam summer sale
I play wow why would I buy it on summer sale?
vivid vessel
am i wrong zeross
vivid vessel
nocturne folio
what are u pointing out here lmao
your inability to read
waxen acorn
don't have any grey logs tho
waxen acorn
what would you like?
waxen acorn
rogue?
timber knoll
Damn 3 omegalul in a row bro is mad for sure
waxen acorn
sure go ahead and omegalul on my rat
lone crow
meta comp doesnt have bad st tho
pallid wraith
when they adding void rogue to the game
lone crow
where is this coming from
proven ocean
u dont even play rogue 
vivid vessel
meta comp doesnt have bad st tho
im just saying , you have plenty of specs doing more st, and every season is the same, you play the specs that do the most aoe
and work with the rest
lime lake
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/tichondrius/snekywoahyer
terrible transmog
proven ocean
waxen acorn
Wow someone can't be bringing up a toon for next season crazy
craggy barn
I play wow why would I buy it on summer sale?
if its on sale ill buy wow tokens for cheap and make so much gold
vivid vessel
obviously its gonna be a liability if your spec does litteral 0 st
but the important part
is doing insane aoe
waxen acorn
terrible transmog
thanks chief
lone crow
im just saying , you have plenty of specs doing more st, and every season is the...
not really true anymore, u would never play 3 specs who deal low st
but overall i agree
proven ocean
@waxen acorn teach me how m+ works
waxen acorn
658 wrists and with blue ass raider io thinks he understands how the game works
damn you clowning on my alt sheeeesh
proven ocean
i wanna learn
vivid vessel
ye 3 specs that do 0 st sure
red zinc
658 wrists and with blue ass raider io thinks he understands how the game works
ross you're a grown man
vivid vessel
but you still play
red zinc
are you ok
vivid vessel
the specs that do the most aoe
fossil lintel
If ST was so good frost dk would see play
proven ocean
damn you clowning on my alt sheeeesh
its not like ur main is good either
fathom bramble
or you just pull random garbage into the obss and remove your weakness of ST for free
cinder relic
Can u chill tf out
waxen acorn
Oh no he's clowning on my main when it's the first season I've even bothered pushing
glass mortar
That's probably ahead of like 98% of people who do keys
proven ocean
ye hes calling me out on me being washed and i cant reply
mighty pivot
novel timber
this is kinda cringe now
proven ocean
cool one brotherman
glass mortar
U look like a clown rn
waxen acorn
That's probably ahead of like 98% of people who do keys
it is
glass mortar
Can't take any pushback without trying to attack people's characters
vivid vessel
anyway
red zinc
having personal issues and taking it out on wow class discord is definitely one of the coping mechanisms of all time
vivid vessel
all i was saying is
proven ocean
@vivid vessel even anythng is saying meta comp doesnt have bad st
vivid vessel
we want trickster to be meta in m+
jolly geyser
arguing about stuff people dont care about
vivid vessel
otherwsie we are shit
waxen acorn
Insecure EU boy strikes again
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> even anythng is saying meta comp doesnt have bad st
he litteraly agreed with me
you bozo
proven ocean
with what
vivid vessel
also anyuthing would never agree with you even if you were right
@lone crow thgouths ?
fossil lintel
Unless they give fatebound giga aoe
proven ocean
he didnt agree with you tho
red zinc
uncapped fate intertwined when
proven ocean
u said they have shit st
pseudo vale
Jesus guys just compair dicks already.. like your just uselessly fighting in here take it to DMS if you want to fight
proven ocean
when they clearly dont
fossil lintel
Just make tails trigger BF
timber knoll
Every post yall make not advocating for uncapped bf is a post wasted
red zinc
lowkey
lone crow
i agree with both of you noobs
jolly geyser
Guy was right with rogue egos
red zinc
fate intertwined being uncapped dispatch cleave
frank finch
my poor trickster 
red zinc
would go hard
proven ocean
zac he called you a noob
waxen acorn
damn I guess I did have a grey parse 😦 oh well
exotic agate
I have no idea what we are talking about but yes
latent oak
Every post yall make not advocating for uncapped bf is a post wasted
acro back > uncapped bf
proven ocean
frank finch
why did it have to be you
timber knoll
acro back > uncapped bf
Let’s fight
red zinc
acro back > uncapped bf
ILL MAKE EM BOTH
latent oak
rock paper scissors
proven ocean
vivid vessel
proven ocean
see he replied to your thoughts zac
vivid vessel
nice photoshop
proven ocean
noob"s"
lone crow
proven ocean
latent oak
Let’s fight
i type 3 2 1
vivid vessel
timber knoll
French ppl be like “sock ray blue” LMAO cooked ass language
Right yall
west dirge
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
proven ocean
next season
waxen acorn
That's probably ahead of like 98% of people who do keys
for reference btw
red zinc
no thoughts guys just
proven ocean
are good melee dungs bro
vivid vessel
I mean not for outlaw
lone crow
but trickster needs work my god
vivid vessel
frank finch
z dps and feels shit
proven ocean
I mean not for outlaw
idk man u dont need meta classes to time highest keys
vivid vessel
also shit tier stet
proven ocean
i saw those
vivid vessel
trash uslees
proven ocean
ret boomkin rsham assa
their comp
is so ass
its unbelievable
worst comp i've seen my life
jolly geyser
I think zac and zeross should make a sextape
timber knoll
Yall ain’t ridin with double coup???
lone crow
I think zac and zeross should make a sextape
bro no way u havent seen that already
proven ocean
ret dmg profile is SO ASS
proven ocean
bro no way u havent seen that already
?????????????????????????
jolly geyser
bro no way u havent seen that already
damn,link
red zinc
I think zac and zeross should make a sextape
the hate-sexual tension is crazy
timber knoll
The world would be better if e boys would kiss and make up.
fossil lintel
ret dmg profile is SO ASS
They are turning fdk into way worse dmg profile than Ret and the DKs seem to be happy about it. It's insane.
proven ocean
@vivid vessel btw
waxen acorn
The world would be better without so much ego over an imaginary number that people think we care about
proven ocean
dont u feel like
this raid feels easy so far?
we killed every boss
like
its kinda ez or
glass mortar
Can't take any pushback without trying to attack people's characters
It's pretty cringe man
What r u 11
glass mortar
Yall ain’t ridin with double coup???
It's fun but it's not strong
Trickster set looks insanely weak
proven ocean
you never done hc ptr?
no, my last was s2 DF
red zinc
it gets tuned up later idk twin
proven ocean
i was in army couldnt do other ptr's
and s2 DF ptr was so hard
bosses were impossible anyway
proven ocean
well
red zinc
damage was tuned pretty high
proven ocean
fractillus 100% has very low hp
red zinc
health just wasnt
proven ocean
thats for sure
timber knoll
It's fun but it's not strong
So it needs tuning? Seems like being fun but weak is a good state to be in for ptr no?
glass mortar
I'd rather they rework 2set entirely
red zinc
i think itd be cool if the 4p gave a 200% effectiveness coup
red zinc
or 150 or smth
glass mortar
But yes outlaw on ptr certainly needs some serious tuning
jolly geyser
Im looking forward to the m+ leaver tags people get,some salt to be had
vivid vessel
2set should just make it so you get 2 es
instead of reseting ub
reseting ub is stupid
i cant press ss more
glass mortar
Fatebound tier is waaaay stronger then tricksters, trickster ate a flat 8% nerf with the KS change, and it's tier is weak, and even st fatebound outlaw is getting raw dogged in testing
vivid vessel
i already cant press ss on live
glass mortar
Yea 2set ain't it
red zinc
i want a tier one time that extends rtb
frank finch
this next boss seems giga
red zinc
one time
waxen acorn
Im looking forward to the m+ leaver tags people get,some salt to be had
tbf I'm not, I think it's a good feature to add but I'm also not looking forward to being held hostage
eager rose
Well
jolly geyser
tbf I'm not, I think it's a good feature to add but I'm also not looking forward...
ye its abit tricky
eager rose
Fatebounds back on s3?
jolly geyser
come back in aug
vivid vessel
- es stacking above 4 (like 8?) so you dont waste ub
- ks auto consume its ub so it doesnt have this weird design issue with it giving cps
- 2p should just give 2 es when it procs, instead of reseting ub
and then also fix ks
being shit
maybe give more ub now that its a longer cd?
3?
make it lower channel cause its shit
glass mortar
Do u want more on kspree tho its already annoying to spend them
craggy barn
what if
vivid vessel
and make it hit your target
glass mortar
If it auto spent them ig
vivid vessel
or make it 100% cleave
craggy barn
they made ks guarantee coup
glass mortar
Just make the basic one faster
craggy barn
so u insta ks -> coup coup
glass mortar
Or more procs
vivid vessel
If it auto spent them ig
if it auto spend
frank finch
this boss is nutty
main shadow
Change from 0.5sec per combo to 0.3
glass mortar
Downtime?
glass mortar
Ugh
vivid vessel
drake goes mid
imune
then you fly
to other platform
kill adds
fly back
litteraly exact same
fathom bramble
cringe
glass mortar
Ah
vivid vessel
extra button
glass mortar
I mean as long as this ar upkeep minigame exists these fights will always be shit for law
They would be anyway but they will also feel like shit
glass mortar
Mhm
waxen acorn
so what you're saying is, time to learn sub?
vivid vessel
wdym
fathom bramble
Read the sub apl once to learn the spec
vivid vessel
ah
proven ocean
zac — 1:08 AM
ah
keen belfry
2set feels sus af
yeah having to guess if u have a proc or not is bad
random ss before vanish window incase we have coup 🙂
frank finch
gg al crash
vivid vessel
boss is crazy tho
proven ocean
thats a damage amp
ah
fathom bramble
<@101843879791177728>
very cool
vivid vessel
make 0 sense
proven ocean
wait dmg amp
craggy barn
why were u grappling so much there
fathom bramble
can't wait to be the first outlaw to play it through
and the only one doing it for like 6 weeks
craggy barn
DRACKTHYR SUB ROGUE HOLY
sudden fulcrum
fathom bramble
they found a mechanic that a WA cannot solve for you
sudden fulcrum
is it how to find a gf
fathom bramble
there's a WA for that so no
hollow temple
also the boss is imune
no hit boss. dodge.
fathom bramble
cause ??
gotta make sure not to penalize ranged during a period of high movement
or it felt too hard to try and DPS during it
vivid vessel
ok its fine
we didnt kill shield
so it was imune
i think
the boss is sick tho
visually
i wish i wasnt an outlaw player
i would prolly enjoy it
vapid blaze
yeah tier isnt looking that hot for outlaw dunno
dev looking fun 😄
dull rapids
am i supposed to spamet he mega magnet trinket or wait for the stack to hit 30
plucky sonnet
I believe it does the same overall damage either way so it's up to you
you should save the stacks if there's a damage amp though
glass mortar
as long as u dont let it overcap it doesnt matter
saving up stacks and timings only matter if a fight has damage amps or adds it could also do some aoe to
buoyant stratus
19 dfc vs 19 workshop this spec is haaaard
plucky sonnet
workshop is already so annoying to keep divine hammer uptime on ret
unkempt cypress
Yeah ret is so difficult in WS
Esp third boss dodging everything as ret is a real pain
fossil lintel
Please don't put "Ret" and "difficult" on the same phrase, unless it's negated
plucky sonnet
I actually find every boss in that dungeon to be so easy for ret
unkempt cypress
🙂
buoyant stratus
i lost ar on kujoh 3 times i wanna die
red zinc
iamgine self snitching you play ret in the outlaw channel
random stirrup
i lost ar on kujoh 3 times i wanna die
you wanna hold vanish for the box
red zinc
hate you mfs
random stirrup
if possible
plucky sonnet
iamgine self snitching you play ret in the outlaw channel
red zinc
ret could go tomorrow and id literally rejoice
plucky sonnet
I main ret and prot pal and I just started playing outlaw this season
glass mortar
those brothers pay for ur ability to play games man
fossil lintel
I mained Ret in S1, it's reputation of being brain-dead easy is not a not wrong
glass mortar
if the entire outlaw population quit tomorrow blizz wouldnt even notice
if the ret playerbase all quit
buoyant stratus
you wanna hold vanish for the box
i did but its i had a bunch of dry strikes and no 5 buff
glass mortar
game would cease to exist
random stirrup
ah unlucky
buoyant stratus
cursed
glass mortar
those mf outnumber us so hard
red zinc
those brothers pay for ur ability to play games man
bro ever since i saw a guy divine storming a mini boss on a top 18
i have given up faith
glass mortar
i mean wasnt there a aoe build at some point this season where DS literally did more damage then templars on st?
i dont think its the build anymore tho
i thought it didnt even take templars
maybe it was last season tbh
fossil lintel
bro ever since i saw a guy divine storming a mini boss on a top 18
There was a build on S1 that would divine storm in ST
plucky sonnet
ret single target was pretty sad at the start of this season
I'm glad we got giga buffed but also I want ret to be gutted so I can mainswap without the feeling to go back
red zinc
look
unkempt cypress
There was a build on S1 that would divine storm in ST
He can't comprehend
fossil lintel
Herald buffed storm enough to the point that skipping TV talents and instead relying on Templar strike to carry ST damage was a win
red zinc
im glad ret is a containment cell for all the retirees
but gawd damn i have never seen any of them do anything ethical in a key ever
unkempt cypress
Ret is just too difficult since can't grasp it
random stirrup
but gawd damn i have never seen any of them do anything ethical in a key ever
that spec actually attracts the most demonic players
fossil lintel
How old are you Timmy? Once you turn 30 you are required to retire outlaw and go ret
random stirrup
df s3 watching them divine storm the little blobs instead of the dragon 
red zinc
once i hit 30 ill just start hateposting on this discord but not playing
random stirrup
2 target = divine storm more damage
plucky sonnet
that's actually true though
red zinc
sure
but 1 target + 20 mobs that do nothing whatsoever while the 1 target is killing the entire group
AH YEAH LETS DIVINE STORM
fossil lintel
Oh yeah I had a Ret full on divine storm on first boss of DFC the other day
red zinc
fucking idiots
random stirrup
Oh yeah I had a Ret full on divine storm on first boss of DFC the other day
i dont think ive ever had a ret NOT divine storm that boss
red zinc
depleted multiple fall 30's to pala's ret storming
unkempt cypress
once i hit 30 ill just start hateposting on this discord but not playing
One i hit x age I'll stop playing is cope tbh
random stirrup
depleted multiple fall 30's to pala's ret storming
ye we just stopped accepting them to that dungeon entirely
red zinc
One i hit x age I'll stop playing is cope tbh
i mean in all honesty it has nothing to do with age
i dont play games that long
switch too often
i dont see myself playing wow in 10 years
fossil lintel
Are you 20?
fossil lintel
Yeah I didn't think I would be playing wow in 10 years 15 years ago either
But here we are
unkempt cypress
Same tbh i can't stay with same game before i get bored but i always come back to wow
fossil lintel
This shit is like crack
glass mortar
that spec actually attracts the most demonic players
eh its just popular spec syndrome
they are no dumber then the average hunter player etc
they just have more party tools
so it shows more when they never learn to use them
fossil lintel
I will never understand
random stirrup
Well I mean
fossil lintel
That is probably the thing I enjoyed the most about Ret when I mained it in S1, you can do so much to help the key go smoothly
red zinc
really only played with ret on waycrest i think
for bop on 2nd boss
outside of that i couldnt be bothered
glass mortar
warlock is also not a highly populated class
compared to ret anyway
i mean no single spec compares to ret
but even the class of warlocks is like 60% of the ret playerbase
🤷
limpid kiln
So how do we feel about new set bonuses? Good or nah? Worth trying a new spec this season or is it all pretty viable
glass mortar
by this season u mean on ptr
limpid kiln
Yes
glass mortar
impossible to tell how specs will end up but on ptr outlaws damage is pretty bad
fatebound tier is very strong and nice for the spec, doesnt change gameplay at all
trickster tier is fun but not very strong
late swallow
PTR is literally free wow
glass mortar
and neither is trickster rn
late swallow
Why even pay for a sub
glass mortar
🤷
fossil lintel
The set bonuses themselves are okay. Fatebound is the most fun to play one, trickster one can be annoying
jolly geyser
wait untill late july and think or panic whatever the fuck you guys do
fossil lintel
Yeah trickster is big in aoe
glass mortar
probably also ahead by a bit on ptr but it does way less ST then fatebound
vivid vessel
Not in s1
But in s1 outlaw was
Probably
One if not
The worst m+ spec
In the game
So
limpid kiln
Fs fs
fossil lintel
This man is typing in discord while playing sub
glass mortar
fatebound was the play because trickster was undertuned and yet it was still stronger in aoe then fatebound
so basically, outlaw was just bad in m+ s1
fossil lintel
Truly a spec of downtime
mighty pivot
This man is typing in discord while playing sub
cds are down
glass mortar
with current tuning on ptr, it is the same in s3
but they havent really done any tuning yet so
proven ocean
fatebound was the play because trickster was undertuned and yet it was still str...
i dont think trickster is undertuned
glass mortar
🤷
late swallow
If zac is pushing keys as sin instead of outlaw, you know it’s over
proven ocean
it just needs fixing
proven ocean
u mean s1? idk
glass mortar
thats what we were talking about in the comment u responded to yes
fossil lintel
It is undertuned after they doubled KS cd without compensation
late swallow
Based out of context enjoyer
glass mortar
yes it is once again undertuned in that is it signficantly behind in ST but still winning in aoe
now i think its a bit silly to call anything on ptr before actual tuning happens undertuned or nerfed
fossil lintel
On ptr?
limpid kiln
now i think its a bit silly to call anything on ptr before actual tuning happens...
Fs just wanted a vibe check
fossil lintel
I don't think we can know if it's actually ahead in aoe on the PTR right now
No sims
glass mortar
well
vivid vessel
i dont think trickster is undertuned
I mean it is tho , outlaw in general, trickster set
fossil lintel
KS cd may have murdered it
jolly geyser
I was thinking fs was fuck sake but its for sure
glass mortar
if we go based on the gap in s1, fatebound would need significantly more raw damage to beat it in aoe
mighty pivot
we know they are looking into the 2p bonus but that alone won't fix it
glass mortar
the 2set is pretty bad
both gameplay and dps value wise
it would help alot probably if fatebounds set wasnt double or more the value of tricksters
limpid kiln
Kinda wild how the highest APM class/spec seems to be the most volatile in terms of viability
At least that’s what it seems w/ outlaw from what I’m reading
I just like stabbing and shooting 
vivid vessel
Target capped spec struggle in m+
fossil lintel
A lot of it is because we're also the flattest damage profile
mighty pivot
also reliant on uptime
fossil lintel
Outlaw is flatter than a pancake
late swallow
There should be a class that relies on downtime
fossil lintel
Yeah, and we get even more fucked by downtime than what a regular flat damage spec would
late swallow
4th rogue spec?
fossil lintel
There should be a class that relies on downtime
That's sub
glass mortar
sub churns cdr even with its major cd windows existing
sin would probably be closer to it
altho idk how bursty sin is even rn
fossil lintel
Zac is literally typing here during sub downtime
glass mortar
it would be a spec with extremely impactful cd damage spike but no cdr mechanics
proven ocean
I mean it is tho , outlaw in general, trickster set
idk dmg looks same as everyone now
except op classes
so
random stirrup
sub churns cdr even with its major cd windows existing
its not so bad as long as the downtime isnt omega long
random stirrup
you can easily eat 5s downtime and lose nothing since it takes that long to regen energy
glass mortar
any spec with cdr is punished somewhat by downtime in a way non cdr specs are not
limpid kiln
you can easily eat 5s downtime and lose nothing since it takes that long to rege...
Just get more haste ez
vivid vessel
idk dmg looks same as everyone now
Wdym, I'm getting gapped, In low keys, doing small pulls, vs randoms
Or do you mean outlaw is op on live or what
fossil lintel
any spec with cdr is punished somewhat by downtime in a way non cdr specs are no...
And flat damage profile is also punished more than non-flat, outlaw combines both
glass mortar
yes
late swallow
Probably why they nerfed outlaw on ptr
proven ocean
no im talking about ptr
glass mortar
we have all the aspects of maximally punishing downtime
theres a reason outlaws cry so much about it
late swallow
It was dominating live meta
glass mortar
if zac is struggling to meet the dps of randoms on ptr then thats a pretty terrible showing for outlaw
thats his point
vivid vessel
no im talking about ptr
I must be washed up then
fossil lintel
He is lagging though
proven ocean
i dont think ur playing with randoms from what i see in ur streams
ur playing with kira and the boys
so idk what ur saying is true
shaman, mage, hunter, boomkin, ww all those are overtuned
cant compare to those
fossil lintel
WW is pumping
vivid vessel
shaman, mage, hunter, boomkin, ww all those are overtuned
It's way weaker than on live tho
proven ocean
bugged and does alot of dmg
vivid vessel
And most specs are getting better t sets than live
fossil lintel
bugged and does alot of dmg
That's the only case when rogue or ww do a lot of damage usually
vivid vessel
ye but these classes are doing 40% more dmg than on live zac
ye but im doing like
20/15% less
than on live
limpid kiln
Idk on live I’ve done a handful of low key pugs and have done around 1-3m dps and I’m not even that great at my rotation yet, stats kinda fucked (too much mastery) etc. pretty equal to other dps I’m with. If zac is struggling on ptr that’s a little scary but also it’s super early so im not hitting panic
proven ocean
idk i wouldn't doom about class being bad rn because most classes in ptr are doing 40% more dmg or 40% less dmg
so idk
limpid kiln
With how difficult it is to effectively play Outlaw though it seems wild to nerf it
glass mortar
outlaw is pretty damn strong numerically on live, especially in keys right now
proven ocean
outlaw dmg didnt seem like the most abnormal, its just a bad melee dungeon we have rn
glass mortar
it is significantly weaker relative to live on ptr
this isnt surprising considering everything its gotten so far has been a numerical nerf tho
🤷
wait and see where tuning leads
kspree change was an 8% nerf
new tier is significantly weaker then live tier for trickster
and we scale like shit with gear
its to be expected
limpid kiln
Damn I just swapped to trickster and was getting used to it
Oh well just gotta wait n see
mighty pivot
they have 6 weeks to tune things
proven ocean
im a fan of dooming too but, dooming on rogue specs rn i dont think is real anyway
all rogue specs look fine rn
glass mortar
nobody is saying to doom
glass mortar
just giving the accurate info for ptr at this moment
proven ocean
even sin is doing -20% dps
of every class
in m+
so idk what u guys are trying to point out
lone crow
rogue is for undertuned rn
vivid vessel
bro ross
glass mortar
trying to answer the questions of a person asking about the status of ptr at this moment
vivid vessel
im not dooming but
i do like
15% less dps on ptr
while having 20 more ilvl
sooo
idk
fossil lintel
This is outlaw discord, we're required to doom about everything so that guy can complain about us dooming. It's tradition.
proven ocean
im pretty sure the old tier set undersims
it covers bad rng
dropping AR etc
good for real gameplay
vs sims
glass mortar
new tier sets are more normalized then live tier set i believe
but it wouldnt surprise me if tricksters set on ptr is half the value of live tier set
cinder relic
rogue is for undertuned rn
Rogue meta mid rn ya
glass mortar
which basically makes the 30 ilvl u gained in those slots a wash
proven ocean
let alone sub/outlaw
novel socket
fossil lintel
sin doing insanely low st
Ass doing ass damage?
vivid vessel
i was getting dumpstered on the aoe boss
fossil lintel
Yeah that was sad, pc should go crazy on the 3 DH boss
glass mortar
its not surprising. undertuned in aoe and ur ST gets reduced anytime a fight adds adds
:))))
vivid vessel
were u playing that?
i played both
glass mortar
trickster just doesnt do st
if what solo was telling me is accurate so
not super surprised
our profile just gets worse if the well tuned aoe build also competative in st suddenly cant st, but the other hero talent tree that was equal in st but cant aoe doesnt have its aoe fixed
and thats whats happened on ptr so far
need tuning to fix those issues
fossil lintel
Just make tails flurry and we can full swap to fatebound next season
glass mortar
it does flurry
fossil lintel
Does it?
glass mortar
yes
fossil lintel
I thought it was ST only
glass mortar
any hit we have that is ST only flurries
keen belfry
@ripe ibex brew gearing?
proven ocean
lmao mage towers are so funny rn
i killed the boss wiithout doing any mechanic
at all
no kick no soaking
no moving
just target dummy
💀
glass mortar
is that the one with the 3 bosses sharing an hp pool
i remember doing that one during legion, it was like the second easiest yea
i imagine it must be super easy on live rn
i think agatha was easier (that was the outlaw one right?)
the skin from it was pretty sick tho
lone spear
i remember people thinking dastardly duos would be like new mage tower
frank finch
wary bridge
Its now easier than ever?
tender wedge
what tech is this
frail veldt
proven ocean
managed to do 35k dps
as u can see the guy doing it legit is well...
struggling alot
buoyant stratus
disapeerared on key
glass mortar
wait the event buff wasnt being removed for keys???
lime lake
glass mortar
frank finch
proven ocean
ok so this guy is on TWW scaling
8k dps
vs 35k 💀
krill issue
i wish they'd bring back these challenges
get some new ones
glass mortar
this challenge was always one of the easier ones for us because u could turn one of the bosses off for the whole fight with blind basically
glass mortar
i wish they'd bring back these challenges
hell yea
i was very dissapointed by this seasons delve boss
i want more challenging solo content
mage tower went hard
proven ocean
ye but i finished it right after deathmark
like
with correct gear u can nuke it so hard
glass mortar
does it not scale u anymore or did u make a meme scaling set
glass mortar
ah ye
glass mortar
i did that on my hunter too
if u game it for gear its very very silly yea
the amount more damage u do is kinda crazy
tender wedge
oh i see, mage tower specific tech
stuck patrol
i killed the boss wiithout doing any mechanic
Is it because you killed them fast enough, or are they bugged and not doing any mechanics?
proven ocean
Is it because you killed them fast enough, or are they bugged and not doing any ...
i do so much dps they die before doing mechanics
glass mortar
there might be a more op scaling trinket
stuck patrol
Lmao nice
glass mortar
but that ones probably pretty good
proven ocean
there might be a more op scaling trinket
no
the 2nd one
is the best trinket in the game
theres another one im farming rn
glass mortar
i meant ur card
proven ocean
ye
tender wedge
i do so much dps they die before doing mechanics
which of the rando procs is doing all the damage?
glass mortar
also i imagine arcanocrystal would go pretty fucking hard for sin, even scaled?
proven ocean
i researched alot on this weran
burnt dragon
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
proven ocean
more than all the mage tower guide writers
that trinket is like 10% ahead of any trinket in the game
and gives like
x2 sometimes x5 any other trinket
in magetrower
in stats that is
im sure i can find better shoulders
but ye
that gear is rly good
there has to be some 2-3 socket shoulders laying around in wow somewhere
stuck patrol
Where do you get those trinkets? Old pvp vendors?
glass mortar
ye
proven ocean
ah ye 2 socket sholders in siege of orgrimmar
proven ocean
Where do you get those trinkets? Old pvp vendors?
no
those 2 trinkets specifically are incredibly overtuned and are only from baradin hold
glass mortar
oh cata
proven ocean
so u get 3x chance per week to get it
stuck patrol
those 2 trinkets specifically are incredibly overtuned and are only from baradin...
They hard to get?
proven ocean
and the drop chance is very very low
well abit
u need baradin hold to be controlled by ur faction
so if its ally, and ur horde, try switching to warmode on
then it might be horde controlled
im probably gonna do siege of orgrimmar for some pieces
stuck patrol
So do they drop from that one raid boss there?
stuck patrol
glass mortar
fwiw, you do not need to go to nearly the lengths zeross is to make these challenges a joke
if ur minmaxing gear in every spot u legit get to target dummy the challenges
if u just do the most barebones get a piece of gear with a gem slot in every socket at the proper ilvl to scale up u r hilariously strong for them regardless
mighty pivot
stuck patrol
Yeah I noticed. I'm just trying to get a healer geared up for it, trying to find stuff to make it a little easier because I'm not one who has healed often lmao
Geared up for mage tower in general I mean
subtle field
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vapid blaze
trickster wouldnt even feel so bad on ptr
if you actually track UB
