outlaw

[rigid basin]

The guy saying that KS was a defensive ability was a take for sure

[unreal drum]

kinda true but for everyone else they all get more healing when we die to it 😄

[rigid basin]

xD

[rapid lion]

but then the fights take longer so they take more damage

[rigid basin]

Pre-SS the outlaw angle

[unreal drum]

you assume too much of me brother i heal bosses with my boomer ass trying to keep up with outlaw xDD

[rigid basin]

The guy talking about pvp did have a point about not having a root break is gonna be rough, maybe they make it an honor talent

[crystal hearth]

Hey guys i somehow dont understand why i should role again if i got max buffs isnt that the best case?

[gaunt phoenix]

if you wont lose them then you are just rolling for supercharger

Rtb buffs your next 2 finishers

[crystal hearth]

Ahh thanks

[daring oxide]

Who is this Mafic guy on the ptr thread

Gone from being a good feedback thread to absolute nonsense and idiots bickering between each other

[gaunt phoenix]

think every thread becomes like that

something tells me blizz is capable of weeding out the nonsense

they do read the buffoonery in here after all

[vivid vessel]

wtff

[signal crescent]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RXPFfw3tJLyG42VA?fight=23&type=damage-done&source=34

What am I doing wrong in phase 1 of mythic gallywix? My damage is terrible compared to other loga for this time period

[vivid vessel]

they destroyed our cool thread

[rigid basin]

Casual player pov I think

I'm in the middle of writing a post that mentions what he says lmao, cuz its horribly misleading

Man's like 635 Ilevel I have doubts he knows what's going on with the spec ngl

[hoary wave]

That dude is like bad AI

[rigid basin]

Yeah idfk he's smoking something

I feel bad for that paladin guy xd

(said noone ever)

[hoary wave]

oh my god

[torpid fiber]

I have to assume they're a pvp player in pvp gear or smth

[hollow temple]

yh hes in pvp gear

[glass mortar]

new kspree is alot worse for pvp for sure

hopefully we get some neat pvp talent to make it stronger

[rigid basin]

Yeah I brought this up, def needed fs

For some reason it isn't showing any rating this season for him tho

Which is why I was confused

[glass mortar]

might be a casual pvper or bug with armory

i never trust armory tbh

[rigid basin]

Was looking at a 3rd party website too, but yeah who knows

[queen ruin]

hey guys just a couple questions, im currently playing assassination rogue (ilvl 651) and im having trouble with simple fights against the 60m kobolds taking upwards of 1-1:30m to kill it alone, admittedly, i am using a mythic+ AoE build however im just wondering if 1. its worth to swap to Outlaw and 2. is outlaw more self sustainable

[hollow temple]

you can hide all of your rating/experience

[rigid basin]

Oh that's good to know

Ty

[hollow temple]

you can do so in your blizzard account settings directly and on every tracking site

so they could have some rating and it just not show

or they just do unrated content

[rigid basin]

But he also says this

I almost feel like he's rage baiting?

[hollow temple]

could be

[inland acorn]

If you can swap to outlaw, you could try. Keep in mind that our core rotation is vanishing, which can reset mobs if you don't attack them quick enough to break stealth.
As for self sustainable, probably better than assa, since we play talent that makes restless blades affect evasion

[hollow temple]

i never take active forum posters seriously

especially if from RP realms

[rigid basin]

This is fair xd

[torpid fiber]

oh they're stupid, my condolences to their parents

[rigid basin]

[hollow temple]

🏄‍♂️

this emote

[rigid basin]

YEAH

[hollow temple]

makes me immediately throw out all respect for your words

on wow forums

idk if its all the same guy

but that shit gets posted on the forums a lot and its always someone acting similar

[torpid fiber]

Who the hell uses 🏄

[rigid basin]

Surfs up bro

[vivid vessel]

🏄‍♂️🏄‍♂️

[leaden folio]

hype for the news KS ? 🏄‍♂️🏄‍♂️

[torpid fiber]

🏄‍♀️

[vivid vessel]

when you see these emotes used

[rigid basin]

Every post

[vivid vessel]

you know not to read anywya

[rigid basin]

LMAO Tru

[late swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1385761912758861894.webp?size=96&animated=true

[queen ruin]

so as far as i can tell, for m+ the damage is almost the same except assassination relies on alot of DoT, and when you say vanish is core, isnt that the same for assassination except for assass its more related to gaurate

[inland acorn]

Outlaw vanishes a lot more

[glass mortar]

u can do pretty good damage without vanishing as sin, you will not do very effective damage if u dont vanish on law

[inland acorn]

Like it's THE CORE of outlaw right now

[glass mortar]

vanish is much more core to law

[leaden folio]

talking about rogue outlaw

[glass mortar]

outlaw is also tankier then sin tho if u are having issues living

[leaden folio]

i know guy talk about crafting dagger is a shame for outlaw player

[glass mortar]

ur evasion cd is much lower, u have perma feint, and every vanish heals you

[hollow temple]

yep

[leaden folio]

did blizzard talk about the craft for outlaw rogue or not ?

[glass mortar]

wdym

[pearl belfry]

How is outlul on PTR rn?

[leaden folio]

if you craft a sword for outlaw as first craft

you cant reroll assa/sub

[glass mortar]

yes

thats the case for every spec in the game that doesnt use the same weapons as its other specs

[leaden folio]

guy talk about this issue on his wowhead

did blizzard know

[glass mortar]

rogue is much less limited in this way then most classes honestly

every hybrid suffers from it way more

[leaden folio]

y I mean, we talk about rogue outlaw stuff becase we are here

but if every class can benefit

no problem

[glass mortar]

i think its a feature at this point

[inland acorn]

I mean

[desert tendon]

weran

you suffer

from success

[inland acorn]

Would you want a game, where every class/spec can use all weapons ?

[leaden folio]

not rly

[glass mortar]

they want some things to "lock you" into a main spec for ur hardest content imo

[leaden folio]

just a system to reroll if I failed

[queen ruin]

ah

[glass mortar]

not that i necessarily agree but

it seems blizz wants it

[inland acorn]

You can reroll

[queen ruin]

also for m+ would u recommend trickster build or fatebound

[leaden folio]

like you can recycle your sword (that mean lost gold etc..) but you can get back your spark

[glass mortar]

trickster

[inland acorn]

If you craft sword you can still reroll to sub/sin if you farm weapon from dungeons

Or craft another one later on

[vivid vessel]

not triple dps

mage

[inland acorn]

It's not like the world will end, if you reroll 5 weeks later

[vivid vessel]

i think it doesnt make sense for triple dps specs

cause you are expected to respec

for every fight

basically

[glass mortar]

mage isnt most specs in the game

but that is true for pures its a bit dif

[vivid vessel]

its not like you are a tank/dps class

[torpid fiber]

does lock have the issue

[glass mortar]

ours is still pretty flexible tho its not like a dagger is useless to law

[vivid vessel]

cause you arent expected to respec

[glass mortar]

the hting is this isnt an issue

[vivid vessel]

lock uses one weapon aswell

[glass mortar]

because outlaw wont ever be the progression raid spec again

so blizzard doesnt need to fix it u kno

💅

[vivid vessel]

idk

i disagree

[glass mortar]

wdym u already told me ur resigned to not playing law in raid prog every season

[rigid basin]

Hunter used to use one weapon

[glass mortar]

craft ur dagger bozo

[vivid vessel]

i think the only other class that got similar issue is warrior

hunter is another good example

[glass mortar]

monk

[vivid vessel]

because again

[glass mortar]

hunter

[inland acorn]

I mean does it really matter if you play sub-par spec on certain fights

[glass mortar]

paladin

[vivid vessel]

no

[glass mortar]

shaman

[inland acorn]

If you're not HoF raider

[vivid vessel]

nope

[glass mortar]

?

[vivid vessel]

diff roles veran

[glass mortar]

wdym

[vivid vessel]

is the point

[glass mortar]

i can play ele and enhance with the same weapon now

[vivid vessel]

you arent expected to reroll to a diff role

[glass mortar]

[rigid basin]

He's saying triple dps specs

[vivid vessel]

no but i mean

every class that has multiple specs that are the same role

they can swap freely between

i dont think there is an exception

[rigid basin]

Surv

[vivid vessel]

other than warrior arms wanting double

surv is melee

rest is range

its still a diff role

[rigid basin]

Ig :p

[vivid vessel]

you rarely see ranged shaman go melee shaman

thats not really a thing

[glass mortar]

so its just dk and warrior then really

[vivid vessel]

what do dk uses

[glass mortar]

and dk is only when frost cant use 2handers and be that good

[rigid basin]

I don't disagree, it'd be nice to have the flexibility and since we're not pirate fantasy anymore the forced sword makes a little less sense

[vivid vessel]

im not aware

[glass mortar]

frost can use dw or 2h

depends on the tuning

of the talents

[vivid vessel]

ok can

we cant

so

[glass mortar]

sometimes 2h is bad

sometimes it isnt

[vivid vessel]

and warrior is using 2h handers

[glass mortar]

so they would/wouldnt share a weap with unholy

[vivid vessel]

its just you need another one for arms

right

[glass mortar]

need another one for fury yea

not arms

[vivid vessel]

fury ok

which is cringe imo

but its still not the same

they can still uise the same weapon

in main hand

which is the important part

we are all alone

with this issue

in the entire game ?

[simple relic]

fury in vault gets 1h weap why

[hollow temple]

huh

[glass mortar]

probably cause fury has a dw 1hander meme talent

but thats funny

[vivid vessel]

every class in the game, roles share weapons

[echo tide]

The same reason as to why arcane mages get healer mana trinkets from vault

[hollow temple]

you don't think so?

[vivid vessel]

what

ye thats how it works

im talking raid

cause thats a raid conv

[inland acorn]

He also means ranged/melee role

[vivid vessel]

yes

[simple relic]

guys can i get opinion on this wa https://wago.io/Pd53s_NPU

[hollow temple]

idk bro for all dps roles at a decent level you should be expected to play them

[vivid vessel]

its very very very rare a ranged shaman will reroll melee shaman for a tier cause melele sham is better

usually they will rather change class

[hollow temple]

ranged/melee isn't really a hard step like going from dps to healer or tank etc

[vivid vessel]

wahts expected of peoeple is generally to be able to play your role

you dont ask your shaman dps to heal either

[hollow temple]

ya dps to heal is diff

i just said that mhm

[inland acorn]

Just make outlaw gunslinger ranged dps

[latent oak]

no

[hollow temple]

i have seen hella people change between ele/enh or mm/bm/surv

for raid

[vivid vessel]

its quite rare tricks

[hollow temple]

weird

[vivid vessel]

for the longest time shamans players never swaped from enahnce for example

enhance players were enhance players

i think its slightly diff now

but not that much

[cedar kernel]

i did

[vivid vessel]

survival is a bit diff cause no one plays surv so idk

[hollow temple]

idk pretty much everyone i've ever played with was able to or willing to swap

[vivid vessel]

the question isnt even

real

[cedar kernel]

bc my m+ group found my Enhance playing better than Elem

can do more dmg than that

[simple relic]

bump pls anyone

[cedar kernel]

Elem need to communication

like we always need to sync the burst

so our priest will be busy bc he need to ask around our burst

but in Enhance he can do nothing to me and i am good

[hollow temple]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-slap-attack-scratch-spray-bottle-gif-17118070709567052669

[simple relic]

..

[inland acorn]

Idk, I personally don't think it's that big of an issue, that outlaw requires different MH than other 2 specs. I don't think it matters, outside of very high-end raiding

Like you can be just fine playing sub-par spec for a fight, unless you're like HoF range raider or something

[unreal drum]

its fine, does the job, bit of a crutch tho i used it to break the habit of not pressing bf as a builder in m+ enough soon as it became muscle memory then ditched it

[vivid vessel]

i mean

i cant play outlaw

basically every tier

just cause of this weapon thing

its litteraly playable

and i cant

its definitly a bit annoying

for lore reasons

[inland acorn]

Why though

[vivid vessel]

because i craft a dagger

[echo tide]

Just make 2 rogues and run splits

Smh my head

[inland acorn]

Why are you crafting dagger

[echo tide]

God damn casuals

[vivid vessel]

because outalw is litteraly shit every end boss

and i dont wanna lock myself on outlaw

when i craft a dagger i can play 2 specs

[inland acorn]

Are you in HoF guild ?

[vivid vessel]

does it matter

[inland acorn]

I don't think it matters if you play outlaw even if its shit on bosses, unless you're chasing HoF

[simple relic]

why dont you play on mic in your team m+

[vivid vessel]

my guild is r60 but i dont think that matters

playing a shit spec

no matter the level

you are still wasting time

of 20 other people

potentially

and if everyone does that

[inland acorn]

I don't think 1 person changing spec

Will make or break boss

[vivid vessel]

1 person

if its one

why cant everyone do it

you arent the main character of your guild right

[inland acorn]

No, but at the same time

[vivid vessel]

everyone is expected to play the good spec

[inland acorn]

If you take 1 more night to kill

[vivid vessel]

biut you ?

[inland acorn]

Because you have 10 people playing sub-par specs

Does it matter ?

If you're not HoF, probably doesn't

[hollow temple]

not wanting to play the worse spec, even if slightly worse, is understandable when not at a casual level

[hollow temple]

he is tho

[inland acorn]

Yeah, thats what I mean

[vivid vessel]

even if i wasnt tho

[inland acorn]

It matters at high-end

Which is not very big number of players

So blizzard probably will not be taking action about that anytime soon

[vivid vessel]

it matters at every level bro

lil timmy doing lfr comes in here asking what the bestr spec is ]

of course it matters

[unreal drum]

it comes down to are your team about doing everything you can to kill the boss, if thats the general approach of the guild then youd play the 'meta' spec because all them small % add up

[hollow temple]

it not mattering for the content as compared to it mattering to the specific players is a thing though

[vivid vessel]

I think the mentality of "one guy playing the suboptimal spec won't change anything" is really shitty

Because if everyone think like that

[hollow temple]

i didn't raid at a crazy high level, and i always played the better performing spec as well

[vivid vessel]

Then your whole raid is shit

[hollow temple]

i can understand the weapon annoyance

[vivid vessel]

You go raid without raid buff

Etc

You aren't special

[inland acorn]

I also understand the weapon annoyance, but again I just don't think it really matters outside of high-end

[vivid vessel]

The weapon thing locked me from playing outlaw basically every tier since I started playing good specs to not troll

[vivid vessel]

^

Please read this

How can you think it doesn't matter

[mighty pivot]

this extends to more than just the weapon to a lesser extent though. E.g., if outlaw and sub were suddenly the go-to specs for a raid, you'd somehow need to make it work with one spec that likes mastery and one that dislikes it. It is just the case that now assa is the one that works out best and their secondaries are more balanced compared to the other two specs

[rigid basin]

Remove weapon types every classes use floating orbs of energy around their hands now xd

[vivid vessel]

Yes but it's way easier to have diff stats going

Or have slightly suboptimal stats

Than overcome 20 main hand illvl

[hybrid crown]

I think it depends on how sub optimal outlaw is for a boss, like I went assa for brood but most bosses aren't like that

Would it be that big a deal to just have one track lower dagger for the one boss you switch to assa for

[vivid vessel]

no but im saying even if outlaw is optimal or the same

you cant play it

cause you dont have weapons

[vivid vessel]

yes cause you do the opposite

you play assa sub

on every boss

and a few you go as outlaw

cause you can make it work

[inland acorn]

I just don't think, though I can only speak for my own personal experience. I've openly told to the gm when I was joining, that I pretty much play outlaw only and if it's ever issue for them they can bench/replace me.
Either they're happy with me, decline me due to being OTP, or keep me and replace later on

[rigid basin]

Depends on the guild fs, we run two outlaws cuz we daf.

[inland acorn]

Depends on the guild and people in it, how serious they are about getting CE vs justc chilling and getting there eventually

[mighty pivot]

also you said outlaw is the only spec that has this issue, but doesn't survival have the same problem?

[glass mortar]

survival is melee vs 2 ranged zac treats that as dif roles

[sudden fulcrum]

i always want to pump and feel like i am contributing everything i can in a raid because it's a team game and it's important both for yours and the team morale that everyone sees it that way

[rigid basin]

"different roles"

[inland acorn]

It's technically different role being melee vs bm/mm being ranged

[vivid vessel]

ye but survival share the class with specs with diff roles

so its a bit differnet

bad luck to them

[rigid basin]

What if they gave us guns and made us "ranged"

[queen ruin]

wait

for outlaw do i never use ambush?

[sudden fulcrum]

that is just a hunter!

[inland acorn]

HO build uses ambush

[rigid basin]

In HO you do

[inland acorn]

KiR doesn't

[glass mortar]

one build uses it as much as possible the other never casts it

just depends on ur build

[queen ruin]

do i open my fights with blade flurry for trickster?

[rigid basin]

Nah nah 2 pistols

[mighty pivot]

#outlaw-faq

[rigid basin]

Usually AR

[inland acorn]

there's section in rotation - advanced that explains opener in #outlaw-faq

[rigid basin]

But you just press ss

Never amb

[queen ruin]

i just dont get why ambush isnt used, wouldnt the point of stealth be used for amb

[rigid basin]

Nah, Crackshot

[glass mortar]

the point of stealth is to crackshot

ambush is only used if its a good builder

[gaunt phoenix]

crack crack

[glass mortar]

its only a good builder for HO builds

[vivid vessel]

!kirambush

fuck

!ambushkir

[inland acorn]

[ornate heath]

Builds without HO do not press Ambush because it does not proc Fan the Hammer. Sinister Strike was also changed to proc Count the Odds so SS is always a better global.

[queen ruin]

ahh

[rigid basin]

LMAO

[vivid vessel]

!

[hybrid crown]

There are multiple talents that modify ambush. KIR uses none of them

[vivid vessel]

ez

[queen ruin]

so its a waste of energy essentially

[vivid vessel]

it doesnt proc fth

so

[glass mortar]

its just a bad builder

[vivid vessel]

its just bad

[queen ruin]

fair enough, enough said

[glass mortar]

without the talents to buff it up (HO build)

[hybrid crown]

HO is fun give it a try if you wanna ambush

[desert tendon]

HO and fun in the same sentence

[queen ruin]

holyyyy

[rigid basin]

HO is easier to learn as well

[queen ruin]

no wonder my energy was outso far

fast*

[rigid basin]

xd

[queen ruin]

without casting ambush i had not run out of energy

and my damage actually looked alright

without a proper rotation..

[inland acorn]

Highly recommend reading through #outlaw-faq rotation sections, they're long but well written

[queen ruin]

althought it could be because i got luck with roll the bones and got 5 buffs

[queen ruin]

yeah i thought they were outdated is all

[gaunt phoenix]

never !

[queen ruin]

i was going through wowhead but would the #outlaw-faq be better?

[inland acorn]

Our Lord and Saviour Solo is keeping them up to date

[rigid basin]

Nah solo is always on top of that shit

He's the goat

[inland acorn]

I think #outlaw-faq is better, because wowhead needs to compress a little more

[rigid basin]

Both guides are good, but I typically check here first since it's easier to have it updated.

[inland acorn]

Also faq is usually more up-to-date than wowhead

[deep cedar]

guys what belt effect are we using now in M+ and raid?

[rigid basin]

Would sim, but I'm running crit

[inland acorn]

[gaunt phoenix]

Critical chain

should be like 0.5% dps

huge

[deep cedar]

the charged crystal it says in pins but it NEVER works

[inland acorn]

but there seems to be a bug where it randomly stops working, either after you die or some unknown trigger.

[gaunt phoenix]

I said it doesn't work 😨

[deep cedar]

ye ik

[rigid basin]

I forgot to check and sim what I should run for st was just usig Crit in raid... It's prolly fine...

[queen ruin]

are you sure, cause i see alot of the messages were posted in march

[inland acorn]

They're posted in march, but are edited

[rigid basin]

They have (edited) on them

[queen ruin]

ahhhhh didnt see that

mbmb

[inland acorn]

When you open #outlaw-faq you can see at the bottom there's changelog

[rigid basin]

Allg

[deep cedar]

ye ik thats why im asking what are we suposed to use cause this one almost never works

[inland acorn]

The vers/crit stat procs should be a very marginal dps gain at the higher ilvls, it depends on your 684 belt.

[deep cedar]

oh well that one i might have missed

[gaunt phoenix]

cause i didnt put a pretty icon

[deep cedar]

yes!

[inland acorn]

I would sim stat procs vs your belt whatever you have

[vivid vessel]

!

icon now !

wtf

thats shaman

thing

[leaden folio]

new ks icon where

[inland acorn]

there is screenshot in pins

[gaunt phoenix]

i cant find an upscaled one

[inland acorn]

Don't think it's extracted out of game yet

[vivid vessel]

skill issue

[sudden fulcrum]

extract THIS

[vivid vessel]

did you check solo

last week update

[gaunt phoenix]

let's see

[vivid vessel]

wonder what the source code is

maybe he includes a script

that upscale

[inland acorn]

it's bitcoin miner

[vivid vessel]

ah its justa readme

[mighty pivot]

he included the script ||that took whispyr's account||

[queen ruin]

do you guys recommend using keep it rolling build?

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not really for new outlaws

its easy to mess up or not have the right weakura tracking shit

[queen ruin]

ah right so best not for me

[vivid vessel]

weak aura spec ..

[inland acorn]

I would start with HO, to get used to the spec

the pace, rotation etc

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not even that strong to warrant learning over ho

[inland acorn]

It might be stronger in next patch tho

[gaunt phoenix]

Tbh it might not be

[inland acorn]

[covert kestrel]

Someone posted a high def one here this week but idk if it was just ai upscale or what

[queen ruin]

"A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery."
confident to say mines the exact opposite 😎

[gaunt phoenix]

where

[covert kestrel]

Fuck idk

[vagrant zenith]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[inland acorn]

there is no icon in the pack that zac linked, can tell you that

[gaunt phoenix]

[inland acorn]

also why is ks named there

Murder spree

[covert kestrel]

#outlaw message

Clush

[gaunt phoenix]

the icon has always named like that

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah this is ai

[sudden fulcrum]

at least they have the correct number of fingers

it looks like a revolver with no hammer though

so that checks out as AI

[glass mortar]

the barrel also has no top it just kinda ends where the fire starts

[sudden fulcrum]

lmao yeah

[covert kestrel]

Lore accurate since we're just spray and pray

[glass mortar]

but i mean its w/e

would prefer real artist for tooltips, i prefer new tooltips to recycling the same old ones over and over again tho

at this point is anyone surprised

[vivid vessel]

im very sad cause when i saw this for the first time

[glass mortar]

how long before we get chatgpt patch notes

[vivid vessel]

i tought it looked better than the one we got

but its ai

[sudden fulcrum]

i think we are already getting chatgpt patch notes

[vivid vessel]

so i feel conflicted

[glass mortar]

wait why the fuck is

[queen ruin]

is a dagger fine to use in offhand, its a hero track weapon and i lowkey dont wanna drop it for some shitty weapon

[glass mortar]

is that the actual tooltip

[vivid vessel]

this one

is the real one

[glass mortar]

ok jesus christ i was gunna say thats just the red hood in gotham city LMAO

[inland acorn]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[late swallow]

luigi mangione type shit

miss you clush

[gaunt phoenix]

yes dagger is fine

[queen ruin]

ah okay thanks all for the help so far

[upbeat tundra]

miss u too bb ill be back when they make a solo que

[obsidian walrus]

any idea what should i play for head enchant for 15-16 keys

gushing or TD

as HO

[rigid basin]

Whichever, TD has more variance and can pull extra mobs if ur unlucky Gushing is more consistent but doesn't do as much aoe iirc

I run TD cuz giant void beams are neat

https://tenor.com/view/think-they-they're-neat-i-just-think-they're-neat-gif-5527929078522601350

[obsidian walrus]

Ok ty

[reef forge]

does anyone have gorechop leap timer wa?

[fair oak]

HELLO friends, is it mega troll to send low cp killing sprees

I've been supercharging ks and sometimes I die and I just died and now I'm lowkey kinda tilted

is it fine to just sent a 1-2 cp killing spree in like 1st workshop pull or 1st top boss

[mighty pivot]

it was a 3-4% dps loss to always send at 1-2cp iirc

[hybrid crown]

A much smaller loss than not ksing at all

You can just do a dispatch and you will have 1-2 CPS for a quick KS

[errant arrow]

I'm looking at you stupid rookery bird boss and candle king 😒

They grief my ks everyday

[glass mortar]

i thought it was closer to 7% loss always sending on 1 cp but i couldnt find wherever solo said it (if it was him that even simmed it)

[gaunt phoenix]

im cooking

[dim fern]

are you guys running charged crystal in ur belt now?

[glass mortar]

but yea its like a 20% loss to not kspree at all so, generally speaking if ur deciding between delaying ks or sending at low cp, u should send at low cp

no charged crystal is bugged and doesnt work half the time

run crit

assuming it sims higher then whatever high ilvl belt u have natty

[glass mortar]

....

[dim fern]

i only have 658 belt atm besides this one, will get crit then :)

thank you

[glass mortar]

is this abusing the same flip cases on tails coin

what is this nonsense

[rigid basin]

TFW you send KS as the circles spawn on bird boss as ur other melee scream at you lmaooo :

[gaunt phoenix]

i've unofficially implemented the tier sets and ks

[errant arrow]

We love that

[gaunt phoenix]

we'll see if i fucked the code after review

[errant arrow]

It's one of the biggest selling points to play outlaw, laying on the floor

[errant arrow]

My favorite moment for ks is when your on swamp face and you drag a poor helpless DPS around with you

[hybrid crown]

Any situation where you have a mechanic put on you with a circle or beam during ks

[fair oak]

Thank you for the SWIFT answer ravenholdt

[rigid basin]

Or the tank :p

[fair oak]

[hybrid crown]

It's so funny watching that happen as an observer

[errant arrow]

[red zinc]

cant wait to sim the mastery trinket

want to see if its unironically good or just a meme, hard to tell from gameplay

[hybrid crown]

I hope there's an op damage proc trinket

[rigid basin]

There are couple that look good so far

Prism has a proc and that onslaught trinket that doesn't split damage from the prio target

Seems good

[red zinc]

Onslaught seems kinda meh

3% (2% main, 1% cleave) on dummies when they were permanently at 1% hp aka doubled damage

its definitely prio though, but idk doesnt seem super appealing

lmfao report this bum

[rigid basin]

https://tenor.com/view/report-block-blocked-reported-die-gif-2717402674895639042

Nice have their chat name too so I know never to group with em

[red zinc]

if that onslaught trinket was in right now itd be greawt

but compared to the other trinkets

in the new season

[vivid vessel]

which one is it

all the trinkets that do damage seems kinda meh

this one did ok

[red zinc]

i mean thats a raid trinket though fs

if that was strong in m+ it would be busted in raid

[leaden folio]

raiderio filter actually cover me for those type of people Kappa

[vivid vessel]

waht

how is it a raid trinket

it deals damage when mobs dies

[red zinc]

eh guess its both

that low rppm with increasing damage

[red zinc]

yoo anshuul

[vapid blaze]

try the one that has on use agi

[red zinc]

hes back

[vapid blaze]

where you stack it up 😄

[vivid vessel]

ok but

its ffake tho

[glass mortar]

that one looks the most interesting for sure

[vivid vessel]

its just overtuned

[glass mortar]

its basically a magnet

[vivid vessel]

but if outlaw plays it

[vapid blaze]

yeah ofc

[vivid vessel]

every spec plays it

and its op

its a on use stat trinket

[glass mortar]

i mean its like designed for every spec zac

[vapid blaze]

not really
its a spymaster

[vivid vessel]

how so

[glass mortar]

its a stat stick with a flexible cd

[vivid vessel]

can you link again

[rigid basin]

Spymasters.... With a proc! :p

[vapid blaze]

i was hitting dummies on feral
and it did like 3-4% of damage

[glass mortar]

it builds up stacks that give u increasing amounts of agi (linear of course) and it takes 2.5m minutes to max out, preset timer

[red zinc]

yeah but increased main stat still benefits cd classes more than anyone

[glass mortar]

but its actual cd is 20 seconds

so u could use it to line up with any cds if u wanted to

and its budget is on budget with other trinkets agi wise

if u just used it on cd

[vapid blaze]

macro to vanish kekw

[vivid vessel]

hm

ye

[red zinc]

the damage proc makes that trinket more interesting than anything

[vivid vessel]

what if we use it on vanish windows

[red zinc]

even though its split

way too much dmg

[rich moon]

hi guys, do we know patch date?

[glass mortar]

well idk if its too much damage

[gaunt phoenix]

probably august

[glass mortar]

its high for us because we are outlaw

its not 5-6% for normal specs

[red zinc]

yeah but like

[glass mortar]

and what would be there if it wasnt a damage proc would be 3-4% raw secondary stats

that would be like 2k haste there or something

[vapid blaze]

its insane how much it is

[glass mortar]

which other specs could get as much out of

[rigid basin]

Just tell urself its verse scaling

[glass mortar]

dont forget what that damage proc is replacing

[red zinc]

idk man I think for m+

you try that on use trinket

and the mastery delve one

even though its unbelievably cooked

[glass mortar]

i mean the mastery delve one is absurdly overtuned in aoe from what ive heard

[red zinc]

it procs every other ability pretty much

[glass mortar]

like waaaay overbudgeted if u actually killing stuff to stack it up

[red zinc]

like 30s to get the effect

without anything dying

[glass mortar]

i like the spymasters one tho

having a flexible build up spend whenever u want trinket

easier then just designing dedicated 1.5m/2m trinkets

[rigid basin]

The problem is trying to get it, since no doubt every melee is running this prolly

[vapid blaze]

nah that shit is cringe

its also universal so everybody wants it

[glass mortar]

why is it cringe

[red zinc]

its not

[vapid blaze]

is it only agi?

[glass mortar]

agi/stre i thought

[red zinc]

agi/str

[glass mortar]

no caster competition

[red zinc]

theres only like 6 melee dps in my raid

its fine

[vapid blaze]

idk i think these stacking trinkets with 20s cd for main stat arent very cool
saw that with spymasters

• there is no alternative for on use trinkets

[glass mortar]

spymasters was lame because the optimal gameplay for it was always to save up for 4m then spend with cds lined up at maximum stacks

and if u ever died it was all lost

[rigid basin]

Yeah 4 mins to fully stack was wild

[glass mortar]

this thing maxes out at 2.5m meaning anyone using it is likely just gunna use it on their 1.5m/2m timers

[vapid blaze]

well if you die with this its also cringe no

[glass mortar]

sure just not as punishing

[rigid basin]

Don't die?

[red zinc]

imagine dying now that ks is gone

[glass mortar]

especially for us

[red zinc]

actual bot

[glass mortar]

we wouldnt give a fuk about stacking it up for 2.5m

could probably just send it before any vanish if u had stacks

its average agi seemed very good regardless

[vapid blaze]

but is that really good then?

[red zinc]

cant macro it though

[glass mortar]

why wouldnt it be good

we dont have burst cds to line up a big agi spike with

[vapid blaze]

well interesting i guess

[glass mortar]

we like average stats

[red zinc]

as far as i know

[glass mortar]

but say you knew a tough pack was coming in 3 pulls

[cinder relic]

Well did you consider how cool they are

[glass mortar]

u could save it up for like 1-1.5minutes

to get a big agi bump and have a mini "cd"

[vapid blaze]

its intersting i guess cause you can save for damage amps and add spawns

[red zinc]

if you send every 20s you would get less main stat than the base on a normal trinket

[glass mortar]

idk i think trinket designs like that r neat

[red zinc]

but the 4-5% dps makes up for that

[glass mortar]

ye not by much tho right, i was getting 7k agi to be the average

[red zinc]

ye

[glass mortar]

what are the other agi trinkets at at that ilvl

7.5 or something?

[red zinc]

8.3?

[vapid blaze]

but that agi has more value than the average agi

[glass mortar]

well for cd specs yes

[vapid blaze]

even for outlaw

[glass mortar]

for us not all that much but a little

[red zinc]

for us barely

[glass mortar]

since u can line it up with crackshot

[vapid blaze]

vanish bte's beat everything ese

[glass mortar]

but the damage proc does pump more then secondaries would on it for sure

for us compared to others

[rigid basin]

I wonder if Assa would full save for DM or send with every KB

[glass mortar]

even like 1.5k vers athere would be weaker then that proc on st

[vapid blaze]

you also get way more value in actual fights etc
holding for adds and damage amps etc

[glass mortar]

yup basically exactly the stuff we do with magnet on live

a trinket like this oculd be fun for law imo. i get its more boring for cd specs

like if ur warrior u probably just use it every other avatar/bstorm etc

2m specs use it on their 2m

[vapid blaze]

yeah sure
what second trinket do you run?
are there any standouts?

[glass mortar]

but we can flex its usage way more effectively because we use our "major" cd like every 20s

well the mastery trinket from delves is very silly

to the point where kir would almost certainly wear it right now because it gives like 20k secondaries and its uptime is stupid in m+

[vapid blaze]

one that procs on deaths?

[glass mortar]

but i dont take that very seriously

ya

[red zinc]

30k

[vivid vessel]

how long does the cd last

[glass mortar]

rppm proc to consume stacks to gain 20 mastery, also gain stacks on kills

[vivid vessel]

of the trinket

[gaunt phoenix]

ks cooldown is about an 8% nerf to trickster btw

[red zinc]

30k mastery for 10s

every 30-35s

[vivid vessel]

no i mean the variable cd thing

[red zinc]

oh

20 afaik

[vapid blaze]

the buff lasts 20s?

[vivid vessel]

if the duration is static in the end what does it matter if you use it every vanish or every 2 min

[vapid blaze]

and has 20s cd?

[vivid vessel]

isnt it the same thing

[glass mortar]

for us it probably doesnt other then what happened at that 2 minute mark

[red zinc]

its the exact same as magnet

like

[glass mortar]

ye

[red zinc]

you only hold for damage amps

same damage result if not

[vivid vessel]

yeeee

[glass mortar]

ud probably realistically want to time it so you were using it for a crackshot window + kspree for trickster

little stuff like that

20s window is plenty to make that not hard tho

[vivid vessel]

kspree

not spenmding my trinket on kspree

[red zinc]

zac wym

[vivid vessel]

immma make sure i dont press kspree during that trinket

[red zinc]

kspree is a "cd worthy moment"

big damage

!!

[glass mortar]

i mean its gunna be higher dpet then crackshot bte with these damage buffs

[vivid vessel]

does 0 dam, feels like shit to press

[glass mortar]

but ud want it to capture both

or 2 crackshots

[vivid vessel]

you get not enough from it

idk

[vapid blaze]

you do after
double coup->vanish

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix bigger nerf in aoe prolly

cause less uptime on fazed

[red zinc]

[glass mortar]

its ok next week we get compensation for the 100% increase to cooldown

100% increases cp generation during kspree

[red zinc]

we already got compensation

[glass mortar]

fixed

[red zinc]

12% damage increase

[vapid blaze]

double cooldown
12% more damage
blizzard math

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[glass mortar]

yea nah that aint it chief

[red zinc]

nah but like if we get 8% damage decrease from this change right

why not just up ks damage by 100%

make it feel like you blast

fuck it

[glass mortar]

they could

[red zinc]

sitting on dummies with this your damage still goes down while pressing KS

i dont see the vision

[glass mortar]

the current tier set looking weaker then live +kspree cd increase is in a vacuum them just nerfing trickster so, unless it gains some power somewhere

[rigid basin]

https://tenor.com/view/started-blasting-gun-eyeglasses-so-anyway-i-started-blasting-gif-16955226

[red zinc]

i guess its kind of a tuning thing but

[glass mortar]

well ur damage shouldnt go down pressing kspree on ptr? why would it

literally the only thing that has dpet close is crackshot bte

and thats lower now

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah the dpet should still be worth it

[red zinc]

i mean like

[glass mortar]

for the duration of kspree u should be doing the same damage as an average crackshot window

(of that duration anyway)

[red zinc]

when sitting on dummies and pressing ks my total overall was not going up

slightly ticking down

[cinder relic]

Ho trickster Nation

[glass mortar]

sure

its not a spike really

its just a lil higher dpet then bte

its a spike over ur pure filler u would be doing but u dont really feel that

because a spike for outlaw is like

ur doing 20% more sustain for this window

[red zinc]

dont see how dps slightly dipping means its a cd worthy moment

[vapid blaze]

how long is supercharged ks on ptr?

[cinder relic]

I doubt this is the final tuning pass of ks

[glass mortar]

~4s with minimum haste tax haste

5s baseline

[gaunt phoenix]

5s * (1/1.X%) where X is haste

[red zinc]

so do i

[vapid blaze]

omg its almost like assa
you can just alt tab abit during rotation cause nothing happens

[red zinc]

just manifesting it by whining in a discord he doesnt look at

[cinder relic]

He was here just a few days ago

[red zinc]

when build dropped ye

thats when he appears

[swift hawk]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

[glass mortar]

maybe im off base here but i really think an ability named killing spree warrents some kind of execute or X on kill mechanic for it

[red zinc]

not a shot towards him or anything

[glass mortar]

even if its just tacked on for flavor to this new spell

[red zinc]

just saying he doesnt look in here outside of when a change first drops

if i was actually productive id complain on forums but then id have to read the 🏄‍♂️ guy's messages

[cinder relic]

Sounds like a headache to evaluate proper use in practice, no

[glass mortar]

well im not talking about like MfDing it

[red zinc]

killing spree should instantly kill every mob it hits

including raid bosses

[gaunt phoenix]

and then yourself

[glass mortar]

i think ud need to do alot to this ability to not just make it cast on cd like everything else we do

[red zinc]

log in

[rigid basin]

Inb4 it's just flying guillotine again

[red zinc]

I need shadow priest void swap to work on dead mobs / players

[civic zephyr]

Hey, if im going over 19% haste, should I start recrafting items to crit? Currently 27% haste

[rigid basin]

S priest brez moment

[glass mortar]

the 19% haste needed to play kir is only from secondaries not including any self buffs

if you have 27% haste on your gear from just secondaries you have far far far too much

but i kinda doubt u have that much that would be like 16k haste or something crazy

[rigid basin]

Oh he zoomin

[civic zephyr]

wdym secondaries

[vivid vessel]

are you in stealth

[civic zephyr]

no

[vivid vessel]

I mean either way

you got too much haste

why ytou stacking it for

[rigid basin]

[vivid vessel]

waiiit

are you

ryuk?

[civic zephyr]

idk who that is

no

[vivid vessel]

ye i would also answer the same thing if that was me

[civic zephyr]

lol ill recraft my items

[vivid vessel]

ye

[civic zephyr]

ty

[livid oasis]

Anyone know the WA to remind you to change wepon?

[glass mortar]

zacs WA pack has it included

!wa

[vivid vessel]

ye

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[vivid vessel]

its me

no its not

nice try tho

[glass mortar]

its not? someone told me it was

and they were using theres

they lied to me!!!

[vivid vessel]

he lied

[mellow thicket]

?!?

[vivid vessel]

https://wago.io/elwWiwJax

@gaunt phoenix

add it to the command no ?

[gaunt phoenix]

no !

[vivid vessel]

i have to link it twice a day im tired boss

[livid oasis]

xD

[vivid vessel]

is wcl down again

i was trying to check something

[gaunt phoenix]

nop

skill issue or

[vivid vessel]

ok its back on

[rigid basin]

Someone grey parsed and didn't want anyone to know

[vivid vessel]

why is unseen blade so delayed

like half a gcd

ok more like 200ms

1/4 a gcd

[gaunt phoenix]

the game doing 5d calculations

[glass mortar]

even the game struggles to track the unseen blade obviously

its that unseen

rogues cant track it

devs cant track it

client can barely track it

this is some advanced rogue flavor

[rigid basin]

John Cena type shit

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/john-cena-you-cant-see-me-dance-dances-dancing-gif-15529670

[wary bridge]

What are we supposed to see?

[glass mortar]

whyd u post a gif of a fancy wall?

[quartz magnet]

@vivid vessel how do you determine if kezan is better than HoC in the specific key? Is it mainly routing or?

[proven ocean]

ryu undercover?

confirmed?!

[civic zephyr]

Ryu must be a great guy...

[proven ocean]

and thats where ur wrong ryu

self glazing is wild

[rigid basin]

That's crazy

[civic zephyr]

I wish I understood this reference

Is it just the haste? My ui maybe?

[vivid vessel]

Routng

[mighty pivot]

ryukage was a major haste enjoyer he was running like 38%

(do not do that)

[lime lake]

dew it

[civic zephyr]

lol in my defense im stupid for 1, and for 2 i crafted all my items first and just didnt think about checking for awhile

[rigid basin]

But why tho

[mighty pivot]

he wanted his KS to be fast

[rigid basin]

I kinda get that... But I wanna see how bad the sim is lol

That's a fried ass cook

[civic zephyr]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wjDj4LMkfsXTXRsEdDygD5 heres my sim if i recraft items to vers/crit

[mighty pivot]

all ryukage cooks were deep fried

he started with a GSW build

and then it went downhill

[rigid basin]

Oh not GSW lmaooo

People keep tryna bring that shit back

[mighty pivot]

yeah he'd link how hard his PS was hitting

[rigid basin]

But everything else would just be doing way less I bet

[mighty pivot]

fyi don't skip Nimble Fingers

[civic zephyr]

im sorry ,whats nimble fingers?

[mighty pivot]

a talent that your sim doesn't show that reduces feint cost by 10

[lime lake]

why would i take that talent

imagine pressing feint

[mighty pivot]

healer's problem

[civic zephyr]

i dont have nimble fingers talented

[mighty pivot]

"My killing spree is ticking for 11% of my health"

[rigid basin]

Bet your in league with that fried ass guy in the ptr forums

[lime lake]

never insinuate i use the forums

[gaunt phoenix]

[lime lake]

i will not take that slander

[civic zephyr]

idk who i got my talent tree from... but whoever i exported this from didnt spec into nimble fingers

[mighty pivot]

surfer guy is a legend

[civic zephyr]

but i dont use wound poison so thats crazy

[mighty pivot]

wound poison is a flex point for some instances (meadery)

[gaunt phoenix]

wound is sometimes used on certain packs

[mighty pivot]

nimble fingers should be in every build imo

rushed setup, shadowrunner, stillshroud can be flexed

and iron stomach

(and shiv but fuck using that - get a druid/hunter)

[rigid basin]

Hahaha it's wild reading his takes

[mighty pivot]

ye I get that it's less useful than cloak, but wherever evasion works it's amazing with float like a butterfly

[civic zephyr]

ye was watching zac do his priory runs and he was evasioning every shaynmail smash - dont think you can do that as sin rogue

[sudden fulcrum]

i honestly don't even know what i can evasion besides mobs hitting me

[tranquil hemlock]

everything

except if you play cheat death, in which case

urh

[sudden fulcrum]

i do not think "everything" is accurate

[mighty pivot]

there are some physical abilities which pierce dodge, but I'd say most physical abilities are dodgeable

[lime lake]

feint and evasion are being mixed up here

[tranquil hemlock]

am i going crazy

[mighty pivot]

but with elusiveness it is indeed the case that it "works" on everything

it's just not nearly the same though

[rigid basin]

It's a flat 20% no GCD no energy that we have CDR for

It's good

[tranquil hemlock]

thats why i said, if you play cheat death ur weird

[lime lake]

oh yeah thats true

[tranquil hemlock]

when elusiveness is so good

[lime lake]

honestly i always forget elusiveness does that

[cinder relic]

Cheat death will forever be broken in progression raiding

[lime lake]

but i also dont do high keys so i dont need to know

[rigid basin]

Also you can dodge the mugs on first boss cindeb rew

[tranquil hemlock]

true, although the original comment spoke about "pve dungeons"

[mighty pivot]

if KS wasn't like it is, CD wouldn't have much reason to exist

[tranquil hemlock]

which just means m+, at least i hope

[cinder relic]

Ya in dungeons its for sure a lot better, or even into deep farm n stuff

[gaunt phoenix]

most ppl still use cheat for ks unless you are omega pushing

next patch tho

[late swallow]

cheat death is goated

it quite literally allows you to cheat death

[gaunt phoenix]

crazy

[tranquil hemlock]

crazy stuff

[lime lake]

holy

[late swallow]

cheat debuff cd should be on restless imo

thoughts?

[prisma vessel]

has blizzard not seen those kobalds throwing rocks at ppl?

[gaunt phoenix]

sure

blizzard?

that's just some dude not blizz

[tranquil hemlock]

i mean evasion is useless i almost never get aggro

[prisma vessel]

oh

my b

[lime lake]

maybe its realz alt account

[prisma vessel]

xD

[obsidian walrus]

still dont get how they have not fixed the belt

is it that fucked

[gaunt phoenix]

ye idk

[tranquil hemlock]

i don't wear a belt

my pants just hold without it

[mighty pivot]

i don't even wear pants, it's a dps boost

[tranquil hemlock]

is that your real tag or are you memeing a "sim yoself" kinda thing

[gaunt phoenix]

its both

[tranquil hemlock]

good

[gaunt phoenix]

genshin has its own simc that i contribute towards

[red zinc]

with the amount of shit evasion interacts with this season

its far from it

[mighty pivot]

this channel does need the sim yoself gif every few hours

[tranquil hemlock]

i know dw

read above

xd

[lime lake]

sims dont show the dps gain from stacking haste to shorten ks and stay alive

ryu was a true savant

[rigid basin]

If you are not running elusiveness yeah I can see this, there are a fair amount of funny mechs you can dodge tho like the mines on first boss of workshop

[tranquil hemlock]

guys read above i beg

[gaunt phoenix]

xd

[tranquil hemlock]

but yeah elusiveness is goat

cheat is goat too, although cheating is bad

so i'm mixed on that one

[red zinc]

im still trying to figure out what is causing the first boss searing death dodge thing

like

[rigid basin]

I did DW

Was just saying that had some validity

[red zinc]

you just dont get the mechanic sometimes even without pressing cloak

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-the-you-cant-handle-the-truth-gif-12563764

[lime lake]

i mean i get what you're saying but it does have some good uses

[tranquil hemlock]

ok i'm now

you angery'd me

[lime lake]

https://tenor.com/view/rrane-battal-rrane-battal-kızgın-battal-kızgın-gif-25355985

[rigid basin]

For me Cheat CD is too long (cuz I'm greedy ASF), but it is goated as hell

[tranquil hemlock]

i know you're memeing but my ego is fragile