outlaw

[vivid vessel]

outlaw will prolly suck

cuase that does 0 aoe comparatively to trickster

[plucky sonnet]

losing perma tricks would suck I am praying for trickster to at least still be better in keys

[flat needle]

you guys got used to press tricks 1 time a key already? my muscle memory still tricks between every pull lol

[sly bone]

you get used to it

(thats a lie, you will never get used to it)

[vivid vessel]

i presss it every pack but

perma tricks is still way better

you can start hitting mobs while tank is gathering

and you wont take agro on second part of the pack

or when tank chains 20s later

[sly bone]

best example

Priory

start smacking the first pack while the tank groups up the rest

[weary fog]

i got used to pressing it every pack so i dont forget to reapply it if i ever die

[plucky sonnet]

I'm probably a bad example because I never played rogue before this season

[jolly geyser]

Its planted in since it gave dmg buff in cata iirc

[waxen acorn]

it def did in wrath idk about cata

[craggy barn]

i constnatly press tricks when just running to next pack

super muscle mem'd

[stiff hawk]

I forgot about that, with perma tricks

[strong cargo]

It's insane if tank dies, aggro is so much easier to recover

[mighty pivot]

sending the mobs directly to the tank respawning at the entrance

[pliant wave]

Hey guys, is Realz the class designer for Outlaw Rogue, or does he have a more specific title?

[wintry solar]

The? No

A? Yes

[haughty wigeon]

realz is the dev, and hes apart of a team of devs for rogue and demon hunter

he communicates with us

[pliant wave]

Thx

[stiff hawk]

But do not ping him

[mighty pivot]

(or dm him)

[stiff hawk]

yes

[haughty wigeon]

yes pls

sorry i wasnt finished with that reply

[mighty pivot]

otherwise you will have the same fate as zac

[wintry solar]

Guys

It now only strikes :O

!!!!

[stiff hawk]

Thats some Mobile Pin fuckery

[mighty pivot]

it does only strike, it's not wrong

[fluid meadow]

charged crystal belt "randomly stops working" can be zero dmg in a dungeon soo worthy

[leaden folio]

does this bug affect only charged crystal, or also critical chain ?

[supple kestrel]

hey i have finished the delve 2 times and i didnt get the powers unlocked what should i do ?
is there a quest to turn in ?

i made sure im in correct delv

[red zinc]

Did you loot the chests

And use the item dropped from it

[supple kestrel]

i just realised its in the bag

[red zinc]

put the fries in the bag

[supple kestrel]

sure will do

[mighty pivot]

for now only charged crystal is confirmed to bug out

[errant canopy]

is there supposed to be a new quest for the belt this week?

[mighty pivot]

yes next to bran given by moira's son

[errant canopy]

tyvm

[prisma vapor]

Can someone explain when we would like to use our stacks from junkmaster maestro magnet. It’s not really clear for me. Appreciate your help!

[crimson thicket]

Use it on cooldown in raid, more applications beats saving unless boss dies soon then you can hold

Different for assa ofc

[mighty pivot]

if the boss has an amp phase save it for then

the damage per stack is always the same, so as long as you don't overcap it you can choose when the damage is most useful

[tame root]

Hi all, im new to outlaw & currently trying to learn it. I'm looking for a very beginner friendly build, I dont mind if the output is lower than optimal builds i just want something that i can start playing & use to learn the basics. Then i can slowly add stuff back in. Does anyone have a build like this i could use please?

[wintry solar]

Your standard HO build will do just fine

[tame root]

sorry, HO?

[wintry solar]

Hidden Opportunity

[mighty pivot]

hidden opportunity

[wintry solar]

In the pins

[tame root]

ah okay got it thankyou. & if i wanted to drop GS & KS just temporarily, where would you put those points instead?

[wintry solar]

GS can be dropped for Precise Cuts. You're just gonna have to deal with KS.

[tame root]

oki, thanks for the help

[wintry solar]

You're welcome

[prisma vapor]

Apologies should have been more clear - talking about M+ content

[rigid basin]

Same logic

Just kinda send unless you have an amp soon

[prisma vapor]

So we should not wait for 30 stacks?

[rigid basin]

Like on momma or last boss rook

Nope

Doesn't matter

Same damage per stack just don't overcap

[sterile forum]

Hey guys a question, during subterfuge, we cast BtE only with 5+ CPs, am I right?

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/themingthing-dmingthing-mingasaur-takeaway-table-table-talk-podcast-gif-21316643

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/youre-goddamn-right-breaking-bad-youre-right-walter-white-gif-15742143

[gaunt phoenix]

Yep

[calm orchid]

is the new KS uncapped aoe or how does it work

[rigid basin]

Check ze pins

[calm orchid]

i did

"strikes enemies in front of you" could mean all sorts of things

[rigid basin]

Not uncapped

[mighty pivot]

it hits 1 target

[rigid basin]

Would be nice tho

[mighty pivot]

but a random one

and then BF cleaves with it

[calm orchid]

i see

[rigid basin]

xd

[calm orchid]

targets
plural

jesus christ

could have literally just said its capped instead of going through all this effort

my god

[rigid basin]

"randomly"

[calm orchid]

ravenholdt moment

[mighty pivot]

[rigid basin]

Myb it's randomly capped not randomly uncapped 👍

[dim widget]

True randonmness does not exist in IT context

[wintry solar]

He's right

[rigid basin]

This is true!

[wintry solar]

It's always 50/50

[rigid basin]

I still can't get over your name

Lmao

[dim widget]

Either it does or it doesn't

[wintry solar]

It's great I know

[rigid basin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/766349238941777931/1294179081151189036/lmfao.gif

Reminds me of this everytime

[wintry solar]

Lotion is fine

Like a normal person

Jeez

[wary bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/jimmy-butler-jimmy-butler-paper-confused-gif-14478007832172093541

[worldly shale]

So....capped?....

[rigid basin]

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-pinocchio-maybe-maybenot-gif-18872614

Will probably remain capped unless blizzard decides we can have nice things, then this channel won't stop talking about most likely :p

[wintry solar]

I'll always have something to complain about

I'll be the first to admit

[rigid basin]

Same

Even if it's not rogue related

[wintry solar]

For example

Looping adr with subterfuge

Don't like it

Annoying

Simple as

Don't confuse this with me disliking vanish

[rigid basin]

I do find it annoying that sometimes you just don't have vanish for the vanish

[wintry solar]

Now that you bring that up

It's kind of unfair how outlaw is the only spec that doesnt/hasn't had a build without double vanish since the rogue revamp back in df.

[bright lodge]

Do you macro /startattack on vanish?

[wintry solar]

No

[bright lodge]

On what then?

[wintry solar]

Nothing

Why do you need that?

[bright lodge]

0.001% melee uptime when I vanish at first half of gcd

[hollow kayak]

Wouldn't you lose Subterfuge uptime by breaking stealth with an AA and possibly missing a global?

[random stirrup]

you’re breaking your vanish half a second early and potentially dropping a global in it

[grim spear]

bc crackshot is just insane

Outlaw is basically a crackshotter at this point.

[wintry solar]

Yo mama

[grim spear]

Considering how painful leveling as Outlaw is at level 10, Crackshot really should be the starting talent for the spec.

[bright lodge]

Hmm.. That's makes sence. Thought we always have max amount no matter how late into gcd

[wintry solar]

Stay out the kitchen plz

[rigid basin]

If they wanted to make the spec not dependant on vanish they'd have to completely rework it at this rate xd

[wintry solar]

All crackshot does is change spender priority in subterfuge anyway.

You need ace too

[late swallow]

Popo is right

[random stirrup]

If you start subterfuge exactly with a global, you have 6 seconds to cast 7 more, so about 0.4s of leeway. If you break vanish 0.4s early with start attack you will miss a global

[wintry solar]

You also need subterfuge that's alllllll the way at the bottom

Almost

This cook was the equivalent to making a pizza in a microwave

[wintry solar]

Hey man idk if you knew this but discord must've bugged out. Your name is blue.

[random stirrup]

I am unfortunately changed

[rigid basin]

[random stirrup]

nowadays I am a sub player first and an outlaw second, hence name = blue and role = kir

[mighty pivot]

yellow is ugly tbh they should make outlaw's role colour pink

[wintry solar]

Lol

But for real

I think it's broken

[wintry solar]

Who let you back in the house?

[mighty pivot]

din mamma

[wintry solar]

Look blizz

Either fix the energy

Or

Bring me the monkey that typed Shakespeare

The choice is yours. I'm happy with either.

[mighty pivot]

they will replace energy with holy power

[wintry solar]

Dang

That would've went hard as a borrowed power in a light vs void expac

[rigid basin]

Holy power into Combo Point

[wintry solar]

ER but yellow

[rigid basin]

You use you generator to generate for your generator spender to then spend on your spender spender

[wintry solar]

I'm not reading that essay

[rigid basin]

LMAO

[mighty pivot]

that would fit the unnecessary complexity that they like to include for this class

[wintry solar]

It's very necessary

It's a test of faith

I am the most devoted.

[mighty pivot]

to rogue, or feet?

[wintry solar]

Longest break ever was 2 weeks and one of those weeks was a work week so I couldn't play anyway.

[wintry solar]

Outlaw

Funnily enough

Feet gross me out

[rigid basin]

Not a true Xalatoes connoisseur smh my head

[wintry solar]

I am not

I bet she's evil because her feet are always cold

Wtf am I talking about

[rigid basin]

LMAO

[mighty pivot]

it's true, you defeat xalatath by ||gifting her cute socks||

[dreamy holly]

whats your guys' opinions on outlaw on the ptr rn?

[wintry solar]

Fun but not quite there yet

[gaunt phoenix]

HO feels awesome. KIR a bit awkward

[dreamy holly]

yeah i thought it felt nice but the numerical performance just isn't quite there compared to other classes

[wintry solar]

Numerical is whatever. Gameplay is off atm. Trickster not as good as I'd hope atm

[mighty pivot]

they can tune numbers once the design is there (which isn't)

[dreamy holly]

new KS feels weird for sure, are you supposed to fully channel it or cut it short at max cp?

[wintry solar]

I got a feeling more changes are coming because adr uptime on fatebound is absurdly high.

[mighty pivot]

this is one of the things they must fix

at least it doesn't kill you anymore i guess

[dreamy holly]

true

[gaunt phoenix]

I've been cutting it short

but idk if it's worth

as KIR, KS feels slow asf

without having HO haste

[dreamy holly]

i only tried with HO but man those new tier pieces have so much mastery on them

[gaunt phoenix]

oh that's whatever

[covert kestrel]

Main gauche is so fkin back

[late swallow]

Beans are more important than the grinder when you’re making pourover

No cap on god

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/vietnam-flashback-traumatized-cat-gif-7852054576948114551

[mighty pivot]

the new tier doesn't even have that much mastery. It's same as with s2 tier assuming you use offset gloves with the new set

[magic pollen]

is it still a play to swap weapons in m+ or was this nerfed ?

[gaunt phoenix]

It is worth

[magic pollen]

anyone got a good wa for that ? i keep forgetting it 😄

[tropic zephyr]

Wdym by double coup

[mighty pivot]

and there are excellent offset gloves in HoA

[gaunt phoenix]

the tier

lets you double coup

[covert kestrel]

Just like our old bug which is funny, but less useful in practice

[mighty pivot]

you can still use it just like the bugged version for nostalgia

[vivid vessel]

if ho goes back to vigor tho

you wont be playing 20% haste

sooo

might be slower than kir even

[gaunt phoenix]

It can only be >= kir haste

unless you ks with takem not active

[vivid vessel]

takem is 20% ?

ye true i guess

its 10?

[gaunt phoenix]

yer

[vivid vessel]

so 8 + 10

• 5

< kir

?

or same as kir

[gaunt phoenix]

HO with 9% or KIR with 19% is the same

[vivid vessel]

ye but then at best its the same

but at worse you drop takem

wahts takem uptime tho

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gaunt phoenix]

like 95%

[vivid vessel]

91

ye

ok

i guess

[tawny thorn]

Outlaw feels so fun to play, but in open world content its so dumb thats your main dmg "CD" is vanish, sometimes u just reset the fight

[gaunt phoenix]

ngl this doesnt happen to me like ever

idk if it's ping or

vanish off the global into bte instantly

[vivid vessel]

i have /startattack in my macro

bte macro i mean

so even if i vanish off gcd

on gcd

[gaunt phoenix]

idr if I did that lol

[tawny thorn]

i had so many resets on old raids

maybe it works with the makro

[vivid vessel]

i will insta break

[covert kestrel]

Also can just do it during your opportunity shots to be extra safe

[vivid vessel]

I should probably add a condition so it only start attack in combat

[tropic zephyr]

Oh ok, nice

[glass mortar]

can u make a macro condition to check if target is in combat?

[vapid blaze]

is it just to get target if you dont have one

[vivid vessel]

ye

[vivid vessel]

no

[vapid blaze]

you can do some macro for that aswell
i can post one later (i have one for pres evoker)

so you dont break stealth xD
i guess thats what causes me to break it if i vanish->rtb

[random stirrup]

ye same i just try not to press until gcd almost up

didnt know u could add a combat condition like that

[vapid blaze]

you can also do target [harm] etc macros
if its just used to aquire target

[vivid vessel]

Ah interesting

Maybe this doesn't start attack

So it won't break stealth?

[vapid blaze]

yeah it wont until the gcd is over

[vivid vessel]

Cause by default bte and ps don't auto target

Ok that could be nice

Actually

Will try

[coral onyx]

more sub time

[vapid blaze]

it just targets smth hostile (even if you have a friendly target)

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[vapid blaze]

ill post it later xD

[coral onyx]

or more usable sub time

[vivid vessel]

Ok I should do that actually

In case I ever target an ally

I think this has happened to me once or twice

[vapid blaze]

i macro GS into it
so sometimes that might break it
but prob should start manually using gs

i have it for pres
cause i accidentally living flame alies

[coral onyx]

i have removed pickpocket from my macros ages ago when my pc was outdated

probably cant hurt to put that back as well

[torpid fiber]

Oh true I should do that

[random stirrup]

holy tech

[rigid basin]

I used to have Pickpocket macro'd to dance, was a funny button on Kurrogg

[mighty pivot]

/targetenemy [noexists][noharm] you can also add combat conditionals if you want

[abstract prairie]

Hello ! Killing spree on cd ?

[mighty pivot]

whenever it's safe and it doesn't jeopardise your AR uptime

[real berry]

what is the best simc fightstyle for mythics?

[mighty pivot]

dslice

[restive obsidian]

does lethality or heavy hitter affect killing spree now?

[mighty pivot]

HH didn't on PTR so I would expect lethality to also ignore it

[restive obsidian]

they should change that. I think it'd be interesting to see killing spree/cold blood (it apparently works) in fatebound builds

[mighty pivot]

in theory it should, but because it's in a grey zone of being both a finisher and a builder, who knows if they will do it

[wintry solar]

On paper it should but the coin proc consumes CB

And the proc is a cast that cancels ks

Something weird like that

Idr

[rigid basin]

That's funky

[wintry solar]

I could be wrong but there's a weird interaction that doesn't let it happen

[rigid basin]

Fun detected moment

[wintry solar]

But trickster doesn't have that problem

Now you just gotta find out what to drop for it and if it's worth it (it's not)

[glass mortar]

Don't think cold blood working on kspree makes aby difference tbh

Doesn't change the fact that it's probably moving ur crit rate on kspree like 30% cause outlaw crits so much anyway

[wintry solar]

Yeah not worth thinking about

[rigid basin]

Now if they let us CB trinkets

[wintry solar]

Now that's a cook and a half right there

[mighty pivot]

yes, give rogues CBT

[wintry solar]

Def a big one-shot mega dam talent for a CD spec

[vapid blaze]

btw am i blind
or is there no 90s agi trinket on ptr

[rigid basin]

There is the melee spymsaters (wow I can type)

[mighty pivot]

agi on use or passive agi with on use?

[rigid basin]

On use

It also procs damage

It seems good

Not certain how bis it'll be for us. It doubt it'll be bad

[glass mortar]

We can just use it practically on cd with every crackshot or hold it for a bit honestly

It's decent trinket design

Flexible on use like magnet and it didn't seem underbudgeted

[wintry solar]

Weran deleted a message

[rigid basin]

Exactly, I've been using that one, and the other proc damage trinket

[rigid basin]

You saw that too huh

[glass mortar]

I double posted something and went to delete one and it deleted both

Not sure why

[wintry solar]

Chat, clip that

[glass mortar]

All it said is cb is too expensive to take

[rigid basin]

Maybe double posted on your end

Happens to me when I have bad connection sometimes

Ye

Fs it is

[wintry solar]

Discord been bad lately

[vapid blaze]

wasnt that 2 min

[rigid basin]

Take around that long to fully stack

But you can send it every 20s

[vapid blaze]

ah then nvm

[rigid basin]

The problem with the trinket tho...

Is everyone and their mother is gonna need it xd

[vapid blaze]

the passive damage seems rather overtuned

[rigid basin]

Just tell yourself it's the verse

[vapid blaze]

but idk why they dont have more on use trinkets
we saw it this season

[copper radish]

Can season 3 come out already. Hyped up for this new tier

[wintry solar]

No that's okay

[charred ore]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[rigid basin]

I just want to not use current KS

I like everything else this tier pretty much

In regards to outlaw

[wintry solar]

Undermine zone best zone in years tbh

[rigid basin]

It's got flavor fs

[copper radish]

The weapon models top tier this season

Same with the tier

[wintry solar]

Fun raid

[rigid basin]

I like drifting around the hotel before raid lol

[wintry solar]

And

With outlaw

We laughed

We cried

[vapid blaze]

i can alrdy see some major tier set changes
some of those are
wild

[wintry solar]

We got hyped

[rigid basin]

We hit KS on sprocket?

[wintry solar]

And together we knew

To never KS on sprocket

[glass mortar]

Yea u can hit kspree on sprocket at least 1 time a fight

The fight won't last very long if you play this way

Very good

[wintry solar]

We had some good eggs

And some bad eggs

But this season

Was very memorable

For the most fun raid we couldn't play properly in

[rigid basin]

LMAO

[wintry solar]

We each have a ryu in all of us

Some more than others

Had he been chill, he'd be here with us today but nooooooooooooooo

[wintry solar]

Is the lizards hunting lodge for scalies?

Preemptively change my icon

To kir

[dull rapids]

is KIR talent better than HO?

[wintry solar]

We don't know yet

[dull rapids]

if so, then whats the difference between both?

oh

[wintry solar]

For next season right?

Right now it's pretty even

[copper radish]

When have the last 2 bosses of a raid felt like tank n spanks. Been a minute lol

[wintry solar]

Nice change of pace

[copper radish]

Made LFG easy this season

Love it

[dull rapids]

no i mean for rn

[stray star]

Any ptr builds worth trying other than the ones we've already used?

[gaunt phoenix]

Remove Sleight for Loaded Dice

HO can try removing supercharger for 1 vigor + 2 lethality

[sullen walrus]

how this macro for tricks works? i need to press on tank or?

[sudden fulcrum]

there's a WA you can use that auto targets the tank and then you just press tricks

[sullen walrus]

which wa?

[sudden fulcrum]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[sudden fulcrum]

oh maybe it has a macro portion too ^

[pliant marlin]

i know this is probably a loaded question, but i'm mainly an assa player. never touched outlaw. i'm about to start gearing towards outlaw a bit and i'm curious if i should be building haste more towards the hidden opportunity build or keep it rolling build

[gaunt phoenix]

kir build is generally not recommended for new outlaws

it's possible but it's just a lot

very easy to make mistakes or not have the right weakaura tracking shit

[pliant marlin]

i dunno if it makes any difference, but i'm 8/8m on assa so fairly decent and well versed outside outlaw

but yeah i am overwhelmed as to where to start

it's very different LOL

[glass mortar]

Do any meme sims on if sleight is worth without tier solo

[gaunt phoenix]

No nothing conclusive

[frail veldt]

They're very close you can play whichever you want

[gaunt phoenix]

Kir is a bit better in big pulls

and is more consistent in aoe

Ho should be a bit favored for bosses or lower cleave

but can be a bit rng

Play them both

[pliant marlin]

@gaunt phoenix would you say the cleave trickster hidden opportunity build is the best starter m+ build if new to outlaw?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah the recommended faq one

#1276306860126900315 message

HO without ghostly strike is very comfy

except for killing spree but well

the rtb rule is easy (just roll asap if you have 3 or fewer buffs active)

the builder priority is easy (ambush if available > opportunity if you cant ambush > sinister strike)

[proven ocean]

Ya ppl were doing it 1-2 weeks ago

Looks solid

[pliant marlin]

@gaunt phoenix ty for your help 😄

[gaunt phoenix]

[proven ocean]

@gaunt phoenix ty for your help 😄

[gaunt phoenix]

[vivid vessel]

the 2 miniboss thing ? I havent seen any actually do it in high keys, only saw the other rogue comp try doing it but

i dont think they actually went with it

[jolly geyser]

no s3 yet pls, im 3 weeks off exalted with all cartels

[fallen falcon]

belt fixed or not yet?

[glass mortar]

Wdym by fixed. Like the nerf is live? Went live on reset yea

[fallen falcon]

the charged crystal was bugged no?

[vivid vessel]

ye

still bugged

jsut use the crit thing

[fallen falcon]

yeah using it 🙂

[copper radish]

Charged crystal still pulling 4-5% overall for me in keys with it being bugged

[gaunt phoenix]

when it works it's good

[glass mortar]

If it always worked it would be good

Sometimes it just turns off with no warning

[fallen falcon]

it did 0.3% for me 😮

[gaunt phoenix]

Idk why it stops working and how to turn it back on

[glass mortar]

And we don't know how to turn it back on when it does

[jolly geyser]

crystal stopped working when I did delve for upgrade

[copper radish]

That’s a crazy variance lol

[glass mortar]

Means it probably broke after the opener in this dungeon

Nah

Not variance

[copper radish]

So it can go from 0.3% overall to 4% 😂

[compact smelt]

because it does not function half the time

[glass mortar]

It just turned off at some point

[fallen falcon]

maybe proc % is insanelly low? xD

[copper radish]

Flip a coin type shit lol

[glass mortar]

If u checked a log ud see 100% that it was just broken for most of the dungeon if it did 0.3%

[copper radish]

Oh wait we already flip coins

[glass mortar]

No its rppm its normalized

[compact smelt]

no it’s just insanely bugged

[glass mortar]

The thing is just bugged

Zac has had entire dungeons it stopped working for. It's not variance.

[fathom whale]

It’s bugged, procc’d once at the start of my 17 meadery and never again 😂

[glass mortar]

Yeup many such cases

I think it usually breaks on death but apparently it also breaks with no deaths sometimes so, probably not worth risking

[proven ocean]

Well i know about it, u stand on table and u dont get jumped

Same with cats iirc

Haven’t logged in in a while iccant rmember

[vivid vessel]

ye but its not really about that, you can do that on the brazier which most people do

its about doign 2 minibosses at once

[vivid vessel]

bro

i have logs

[proven ocean]

Yea i know

[vivid vessel]

wheer it stops working after one key, then even after login out/in the next day its still not workign @glass mortar

[proven ocean]

Ofcourse it is about that because the miniboss becomes powerless

[glass mortar]

Zac u should dm me some logs where it's clear the proc is on and then breaks if u can

[fallen falcon]

is it really worth to swap sub for rookery last boss?

[glass mortar]

I'll see if people care

Probably not but it's a new item so they should

Maybe we can at least get the one not margin of error proc to actually function

[proven ocean]

What are u talking about weran

[glass mortar]

The belt

[proven ocean]

What about it

[glass mortar]

The charged crystal is bugged so bad its not worth using

It's literally the only power left worth a damn for outlaw tho

[vivid vessel]

its split damage

[glass mortar]

Il

Ik

What r u gunna do

[reef forge]

are the build the same on ptr just change back to loaded dice?

[glass mortar]

Blizz sucks

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah, maybe HO can remove supercharger

[wintry solar]

I'm holding current 4pc until I get the next 4pc regardless of what sims say

[gaunt phoenix]

I doubt sims will let you break the current 4pc

[wintry solar]

The 2pc that bad?

[gaunt phoenix]

Trickster tier is not huge for dps

[vivid vessel]

it doesnt feel like anything ngl

and its prolly worse for kir than ho

[dull rapids]

whats the rotation with KIR? since i spam KS and BTE and CDG with HO, does KIR only helps u keep going

[glass mortar]

Hmm I mean double coup was like 7% right, 4sets gotta be around that area (less since kspree cd nerf tho)

And 2set seems like it might be piss

I bet alot of it is going to waste

[gaunt phoenix]

'whats the rotation' is kinda hard to just answer

[vivid vessel]

thing is

other than double coup

which isnt exactly insane

our current tier is lik 15% so

[glass mortar]

But 7% isn't close to live yea

[vivid vessel]

2p feels like nothing

i dont wanna be pressing ss

[proven ocean]

For what

[glass mortar]

2p is just bad idk. If u want more blade economy don't make it rng blades just don't spend

[vivid vessel]

and im forced to press it way often now

[glass mortar]

That's so bad lmao

[gaunt phoenix]

like 1 vigor 2 lethality

[glass mortar]

Make it a proc on something

[vivid vessel]

cause ks is twice the cd so i dont even get ub from ks anymore

idk

weird

[glass mortar]

Mhm

[covert kestrel]

Well at least realz specifically said that trickster 2p is being worked on

[glass mortar]

Make it so when ss double procs it sends a blade or something idk

Make blade stacks go up to 8

Even then it's probably not S2 tier status

[vivid vessel]

make fth consume ub ..

[proven ocean]

20% btw, maybe at lower ilvl

[vivid vessel]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[proven ocean]

I saw one of the echo players sim it

It was 23% for him iirc

[vivid vessel]

thats ilvl

but oik

[proven ocean]

20% ish not counting ilvl

[glass mortar]

Well tier alone is hard to measure because the tier also swaps the talent build right

[vivid vessel]

yes

[glass mortar]

U literally can't play the talents u play with tier

Without it

It's very transformative rn

[proven ocean]

Same talents it sims 20%

so

[normal forge]

what is the current best spec-build on outlaw on ptr?

[proven ocean]

The best build is to unbuild ur pc and delete ur rogue beforehand

[wintry solar]

How long do I have to be here to not have the new member role?

[cinder relic]

FB feels good

[normal forge]

i shoud had told ur mom to teach u good manners

[proven ocean]

Thats max ilvl

[wintry solar]

Stealing this

[vivid vessel]

so

[proven ocean]

If weren’t blind enough to not read few messages up you dumb fuck its loaded dice

[gaunt phoenix]

zero i cant let you call people dumbfucks

[vivid vessel]

here

652 ilvl

[rigid basin]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-get-his-ass-katharine-conti-katcontii-get-him-go-after-him-gif-18732874

[proven ocean]

Yea and he has to come in with the mom sentence

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/low-tier-god-meme-mods-gif-14385308006689816010

[proven ocean]

Cringe

[cinder relic]

Because you are acting like a child

[proven ocean]

Idk ilvl differs

[gaunt phoenix]

it's true i don't think that was warranted either

[proven ocean]

Gear sets*

[cinder relic]

He's asking a question about rogue and Ur answer is "DELETE ROGUE HAHAH"

Like shut up man

[crimson thicket]

I say we pull both their pants down and spank them both

[gaunt phoenix]

xdd

[vivid vessel]

you said not counting ilvl

are we counting ilvl

or are we not

[proven ocean]

Idk

Maybe i have bad memory

I saw it was 20% when he was using a bad rogue

[frail veldt]

If you weren't so dumb that you flood the chat constantly cuz you spam enter

[proven ocean]

Mewo

[gaunt phoenix]

😨

[proven ocean]

Grinder > coffee beans

And u ran away

[frail veldt]

I made my point

I stand by it

[proven ocean]

No u didnt u lost

[wintry solar]

More like grindr

[frail veldt]

I didn't lose shit

[wintry solar]

Happy pride mewo

[gaunt phoenix]

this is kir yeah?

[frail veldt]

Enjoy your $800 grinder and garbage beans

[proven ocean]

James hoffmand agree’s with me too

[glass mortar]

Grindr is def > coffee beans

[proven ocean]

“And garbage beans”

[frail veldt]

Different discussion

[glass mortar]

I agree with Ross for sure

[proven ocean]

[glass mortar]

[frail veldt]

Gotta read back lol

[vivid vessel]

yes

[proven ocean]

Mewo

[gaunt phoenix]

if you take HO Supercharger and remove tier, without changing talents, then it's more like 20%

[proven ocean]

Mewo’s take is in shambles rn

[wintry solar]

That convo was the highlight of my night

[rigid basin]

This guy gets it

[gaunt phoenix]

so maybe that's what happened

[wintry solar]

Dang 20%

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

[frail veldt]

I said as long as you have a decent grinder and setup then you'll get more flavor variety outnof trying different beans than just burning more money on a better grinder

But that's okay I think the sentence is too long for zeross

[vivid vessel]

thats not changing talents tho

[frail veldt]

It's more than one line

[vivid vessel]

im changing talents

cause otherwise its troll

[proven ocean]

Zac im saying what i saw

[gaunt phoenix]

ya i thought zero said not changing talents

but anyway

[frail veldt]

Well shouldn't you change talents

[vivid vessel]

ok

[proven ocean]

Ofcourse u have the perfect combo for everything zac he had a random rogue

[frail veldt]

Like it would be dumb not to

[vivid vessel]

but our tier isnt 20%

thats all

[rigid basin]

You have to hit enter between every half sentence

[proven ocean]

On solo’s sim it seems like it

Not everyone plays the same build

Idk

[vivid vessel]

bro

whatever

cba rn

[gaunt phoenix]

i meant to show how the 20% result could have happened

if you change talents its not 20%

[proven ocean]

I guess

[vivid vessel]

I can make any tier set 50%

if i just troll talents

that doesnt mean anything

[frail veldt]

Lolol

[proven ocean]

Big brain zac

[sullen walrus]

In TOP on first mini boss we use aoe weapon or capo?

[gaunt phoenix]

Capo

[frail veldt]

Aoe weapon doesn't work on bosses(except iPa in cinderbrew)

[sullen walrus]

First miniboss in top have + 3 mobs. Aoe doesnt work yeap?

[vapid blaze]

@vivid vessel
#showtooltip Living Flame
/cast [harm] Living Flame
/stopmacro [harm]
/cleartarget
/targetenemy
/cast [harm] Living Flame

[nocturne folio]

its 3 bosses

[frail veldt]

AOE weapon doesn't work on bosses cuz vanishing doesn't drop combat on bosses

And the weapon works on dropping combat

[mighty pivot]

you can achieve the same with /targetenemy [noexists][noharm] which I mentioned above

[vapid blaze]

does that also change target if you have friendly

[mighty pivot]

yes that's the second [] set

[tribal swan]

Is there a resource anywhere that lists rogue tech/tips/tricks for M+? stuff like mechanics that can be vanished/distract tech etc

[mighty pivot]

(you put the /targetenemy first in the macro ofc)

[mighty pivot]

we don't even have a comprehensive list of what you can cloak/evasion, so most likely there is nothing about vanish (part of our rotation anyway) or distract

[dull rapids]

for KIR do you use sinister strike or ambush in the stealth window

[glass mortar]

U never ambush under any circumstances as kir

Remove it from ur bars

[mighty pivot]

at least for what spells you can evasion or not, you can go to wowhead on an ability and check if it's physical and whether it has No Attack Dodge or not. If it does, you cannot evasion it

[dull rapids]

will do ty boss

[vivid vessel]

Hm

I don't think thats consistent

[mighty pivot]

I have not found any outliers, at least not for abilities which are clearly cast by a mob

instead of something being spawned on the ground which on occasion might use a dummy caster

[queen pine]

Whats the best option for dinars as a non raider? only +12m option?
Also, cudgel or Capo's for OH on m+

[mighty pivot]

you use both OHs

capo's on bosses, cudgel on trash

macro to swap here: #outlaw message

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel another avoidance piece

12% avoidance now

[mighty pivot]

and for dinars there is a pinned post about it, but generally capo's heroic and 2 mythic trinkets (e.g., pacemaker & whistle) is what is usually most beneficial. Sim for proper results though

[queen pine]

tysm 🙂

[jolly geyser]

upgrade belt

[covert kestrel]

You might not know but to play outlaw you need to use a 1 hander in your main hand to activate some core abilities! Hope this helps

[jolly geyser]

also outlaw only uses preground beans

[proven ocean]

might not know how to play outlaw

[vivid vessel]

I have 0 I think

Bro ross

Dfc

The trickster talent

That makes feint 10% better

Is so fucking good

Every single damage in dfc is feint able

[proven ocean]

u know what else is good

[vivid vessel]

And I take 0 damage the whole dungeon

[proven ocean]

having avoidance

[vivid vessel]

It's crazy

I don't need avoidance I press feint and have 50% dr

How goated

[proven ocean]

u take 0 dmg whole dungeon anyway

[vivid vessel]

Ye cause I'm outlaw

[proven ocean]

sin is tanky there too

didnt have to swap to sub on 21 weeks ago

[vivid vessel]

Isn't it ridiculous

[sudden fulcrum]

yeah not having an adblocker in 2025 is ridiculous

[proven ocean]

thats not the feint talent

but ok

[vivid vessel]

I'm phone

[vivid vessel]

That's feint + feint talent being kinda goated

[proven ocean]

barely made any difference on that log

[vivid vessel]

Ok

[proven ocean]

fazed talent will prob do the same

[vivid vessel]

Well whatever

Idk why I'm talking to you anywya

Lol

[proven ocean]

u have dots and adds that hit you on 1st boss

[proven ocean]

then dont all i said feint talent wont change that data anyway

[red zinc]

bolts at the start and dots on first boss

vs literally every other mechanic in the dungeon

[proven ocean]

dots on 2nd boss

wait you forgot about that

[red zinc]

Imagine getting a dot there

krill issue

[proven ocean]

wait the adds on before 2nd boss cast hits dmg sheeeeesh how come

i thought entire dungeon was aoe?

[gaunt phoenix]

the spell data for fatebound 2pc also affects dreadblades 🤔

[vivid vessel]

Idk why I pinged you lok

Lol

This guy

[proven ocean]

you linked that log as if the 10% feint dr changed that entire log

vs a flat 5% dr

[vivid vessel]

Anything that wasn't said by zeross he will instantly disregard or clown on you

[red zinc]

idk what you got goin on irl but like

uve been extra pissy the last few days

[proven ocean]

im not clowning you tho

[vivid vessel]

Crazy stuffs

[red zinc]

hope it gets better twin

[proven ocean]

i only said feint dr prob didnt change much in that log

and ur now mad about it

[vivid vessel]

Ye ye

[proper veldt]

brave browser on phone has built in adblocker

[mighty pivot]

the dot on the 2nd boss of DFC is considered AoE btw

[plucky chasm]

Waht racial u guys think is the way to go for s3 m+ @zac @proven ocean

[vivid vessel]

Ok downloading

[red zinc]

not that it matters but im curious what you’re referring to

what before 2nd boss that can hit you is not aoe?

[vivid vessel]

Dwarf or melder

[plucky chasm]

Okay Nelf or dwarf got it

[jolly geyser]

racial removed when

[vivid vessel]

Ye I wish

[red zinc]

tomorro

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1379273688616013984.webp?size=96&animated=true

[plucky chasm]

Waht u think about that @proven ocean

[vivid vessel]

I love how blizzard saw how meld was op

[red zinc]

why are you baiting him with these pings

seen u do this before

not helping

[vivid vessel]

And instead of finally deciding to nuke racials

They made it a pot

[jolly geyser]

[red zinc]

nah but

[covert kestrel]

All combat racials are crings

[red zinc]

feint talent is some whatever minmax

You’re already the lowest healing req person in the group unless you have a havoc dh or smth

[jolly geyser]

cosmetic racials

[red zinc]

just do it if you really dont have faith in your healer or you’re doing a 22 i guess

[stray star]

Wtf os this druid dmg on ptr. 100m starsurge

[jolly geyser]

but race changes make money so

[proven ocean]

zac
[WYRM]
— 8:05 PM
Dwarf or melder

[red zinc]

Wonder how big the bag is

[jolly geyser]

fucks knows man

[red zinc]

7 or 8 digits a year?

[covert kestrel]

The amount of ppl changing race for combat racials is prob miniscule

[jolly geyser]

but it makes money

so they wont change

[mighty pivot]

how many switch for ERP?

[echo tide]

Just make bleeds in every dungeon for one season and a bunch of meld skips for the next season

Keep repeating

???????

Profit

[vivid vessel]

Brother

It's probably the most asked question

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

lmao zac

look

[vivid vessel]

First thing people do is check what racial is best

[proven ocean]

not bugged btw ^

real spec design

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[proven ocean]

hes saying

he can do more than 10m

overall

thats his first dung

crazy or?

might be disc + enh all over again

[vivid vessel]

Idk it's ptr numbers it's always a bit silly

Till like

[red zinc]

enhance is already on watch

[vivid vessel]

End of ptr basically

[proven ocean]

but zac enh is op

they always survive nerfs

the tier set i mean

its good

[red zinc]

they nerfed the tier set already doubt they’re done

[vivid vessel]

Eeeh

[jolly geyser]

wonder if vault stuff stays same next patch. Max ilvl and that stuff

[vivid vessel]

Look my take is you would rather be bad early

Or like not the best

To survive

This won't survive

[covert kestrel]

Yeah but like it doesn't change that much for specs. Like it's always nelf/dwarf or like maghar

[echo tide]

Unless it does bad damage in raid

Then it will get buffed

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel enh tier set

[echo tide]

[proven ocean]

[vivid vessel]

Xd

Ye

[proven ocean]

meanwhile we have this shit

will will MAYBE give u an extra envenom

LOOOOOOOOOOL

[worldly shale]

what in the xiaomi is this

[vivid vessel]

Not a Xiaomi

[leaden folio]

so much mastery

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

zaczxczzcaczacaczaczacazczacz

acz

ac

za

caz

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[proven ocean]

c

zac

idk

i just wanted to ping you

[leaden folio]

[proven ocean]

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/boo-this-man-boo-gif-11031463

[vivid vessel]

I'm taking a nap

Ross

I found this new cheat code

I play 10 times better when I take a nap after work

Otherwise work days I'm always bad

Crazy shit

[proven ocean]

i always did that for m+

u know what else i found on that tech zac

but ur not a coffee drinker

i drink coffee before my nap

[vivid vessel]

I'm not ye

[proven ocean]

then when i wake up i drink again

then it becomes 200% more effective

[vivid vessel]

Sounds cooked

[proven ocean]

and not a crash coffee

[vivid vessel]

[proven ocean]

cuz sometimes coffee crashes ur brain

u lag cuz too much power

nap fixes it

[vivid vessel]

I see

[plucky chasm]

Xdd

[proven ocean]

zac zac

wanna ptr later otday

or?>

after idk

2 hrs

orr

[sudden fulcrum]

caffeine makes you feel less sleepy, but sleeping actually recharges you

[vivid vessel]

Won't have time

[plucky chasm]

Beans here, beans there, coffee is everywhere…

[proven ocean]

why

[vivid vessel]

Doing raid test

[proven ocean]

bro what

raid test tmrw or?

[vivid vessel]

Today

And tomorrow

[jolly geyser]

friday raid test

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel can u tell me what time it starts

exactly

[vivid vessel]

21 st

[proven ocean]

like in how many hrs

my brain hurts changing time

oh

[vivid vessel]

In 3h40

[proven ocean]

2.5 hrs

no?

[vivid vessel]

2.5 ye

[echo tide]

That’s actually scientifically correct, if you take a 15 min nap after drinking coffee you will feel much better

[proven ocean]

really?

[echo tide]

I won’t be able to get into more details in English

But yeah

[proven ocean]

i didnt know ppl researched these things

[proven ocean]

whats ur main langauge

are u a scientist?

[vivid vessel]

Should I drink coffee

I don't drink coffee

[proven ocean]

no it'll change how ur brain behaves

dont risk it

in wow that is

[echo tide]

Nah I just know people

[wintry solar]

I drank 3 energy drinks last night and I still can't sleep

[obsidian walrus]

@vivid vessel streming raid testing ?

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[obsidian walrus]

pog

[vivid vessel]

But

[proven ocean]

it'll be annoying to deal with btw

[vivid vessel]

I probably won't hit boss much

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/armstrong-made-it-up-gif-25653819

[proven ocean]

u need to spend money and setup coffee

[nocturne folio]

Drink coffee and sim it, then do sim without coffee

[vivid vessel]

I need to refrain myself to hit bosses on ptr

[proven ocean]

etc

[vivid vessel]

That's bad

[proven ocean]

too much time and money

for me coffee sims high dps

[echo tide]

Depends on the mood

[proven ocean]

bro

[echo tide]

And the amount of alcohol

[proven ocean]

u knew about the nap thing

i want more things

ok

give me now

what things i can do

that are scientifically correct

?

[obsidian walrus]

any news on bugged crystal ?

[jolly geyser]

still bugged

sometimes

[nocturne folio]

be consistent with food, sleep hours and water. thats the bulk of your dps increase, other memes are minmax within margin of error

[reef forge]

is it only charged crystal that can just stop working or is it all the effects?

[echo tide]

If you save all cds to insta kill all the funnel its not padding, you’re just better at the game and they are mad

[jolly geyser]

go from hot shower to cold

[echo tide]

My sisters uncle works at blizzard

[jolly geyser]

like you gotta focus on breathing cold

[proven ocean]

why

i dont mind eitherway btw

i can showeri n cold water

[jolly geyser]

wakes you up

[proven ocean]

idm that

[jolly geyser]

like cold cold?

[proven ocean]

idc rly

yea

depends on mood

[gaunt phoenix]

i've only seen charged crystal fail

[proven ocean]

i got used to it from army

[gaunt phoenix]

It's the only one that's just a dmg proc

god knows how they fucked that up

[proven ocean]

can do either now

[jolly geyser]

ah I see

routine keeps you awake,depends what routine you want to have

[reef forge]

is the crit one meant to drop as soon as you drop combat

[proven ocean]

idk

u can wake up in all circumstances if you've been in the army before

[jolly geyser]

if it changes alot from day to day alot,gets tricky

[proven ocean]

like

sometimes some science proven shit is wrong

[gaunt phoenix]

idk

[jolly geyser]

who knows zeross, people be diff

im unc in this channel ig

[dawn talon]

it’s the structure it gives your life that makes you learn to wake up quickly

[reef forge]

entering stealth removes it lol

i wonder if vanish removes it

[echo tide]

Ok I can’t think of any real facts lmao, I just remembered the coffee thingy because you mentioned it

[dawn talon]

i used to wake my dad up to take me fishing and hed be dressed by the time i walked back down the stairs

[echo tide]

Brain is cooked

[covert kestrel]

If you don't drink 4L of water a day and sleep 8 hours you're cooked

[jolly geyser]

drink water when you need to

not every 20min

[gaunt phoenix]

i think fatebound 2pc is worth than trickster 2-4pc combined

for the content where fatebound is good

[jade abyss]

WWhat is more likely for raiding in 11.2, Fatebound or Trickster?

[gaunt phoenix]

as it stands, Fatebound

but i didnt look at which bosses are aoe

[jade abyss]

So something like we used to play on sprocketmonger with loaded dice instead of sleight of hand?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah, i suspect loaded dice will be used

[obsidian walrus]

what is the best way to use the magnet trinket do i use it on max stacs or ?

[gaunt phoenix]

you just slam it, but hold for amp bosses

[obsidian walrus]

i slam it every 20s?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes you can

[obsidian walrus]

cool

ty

[gaunt phoenix]

or hold it its the same

like 6 uses at 5 stacks is the same damage as 1 use at 30 stacks

[waxen acorn]

I mean you have to actively try and force yourself to drink too much water

[sullen walrus]

priora first packs we use capo or aoe weapon?

[gaunt phoenix]

Aoe

[coral onyx]

i sometimes miss my late shadowlands outlaw build, bone spike, marked for death, dust legendary

lot of mouseovers for kicks mfd and sbs

st dmg was kind of meh tho

[rough flame]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

[rough flame]

!stealthbugs

[ornate heath]

• Breaking Vanish with a trinket will not grant Subterfuge.
• Recasting Stealth while Subterfuge is already active will not grant you UHUH or Crackshot bonuses until Subterfuge expires. (fixed as of 11.1)
• Casting Vanish at the same frame that a previous Subterfuge ends will cause Crackshot to not activate.
• After breaking Stealth, there is about a 100ms delay before the effects of Subterfuge happen. You will thus lose about 100ms of adr

[keen belfry]

i cant wait to have 13k haste and 33k vers next season ❤️ and 2k mastery and 4k crit ❤️

[jolly geyser]

sounds like df

[rough flame]

I see, that's why my subterfuge has sometimes not activated

In that case, what do you guys macro your trinkets to?

[jolly geyser]

except haste

[covert kestrel]

We don't