outlaw

[patent mirage]

past

[proven ocean]

and we both know why he disappeared

because of solely 1 person

[cinder relic]

U guys are like, mind readers or something

[patent mirage]

riiiiiight

[crisp condor]

It's okay Zeross Outlaw is saved

[red zinc]

omg we’re so back

[lone spear]

OUTLAW BIS WE ARE SO BACK

[cinder relic]

Every time I say something it's like 8 different things are read onto what I type

[proven ocean]

ngl

[red zinc]

Bring out the “its so over vs we are so back” graph

[proven ocean]

i find it funny that there are 2 types of people

complainers and anti complainers

[lone spear]

guy typed number 8, confirms 8 combo points coming in midnight

he has insider knowledge

[proven ocean]

OMGOMGOMG U GUYs are saying THIS AND COMAPLINING THIS

XDXDXDXD

[patent mirage]

only 8?

[proven ocean]

GUYS JUST MOVE ON

and

he replies to every single msg in the entire world

[mighty pivot]

no it's 8 sec KS channel time

[proven ocean]

no cappi

[lone spear]

^man discovers the human condition

[red zinc]

Im not a complainer or a anti complainer im just annyoing

[proven ocean]

see even im complaining about the anti com,plainers

[patent mirage]

we

can

all

type

like

this

[red zinc]

dont slowmode bait

[patent mirage]

silly me

[mighty pivot]

imagine not having enter key discipline

[crisp condor]

Does seem to be the rogue discord specialty

[random stirrup]

unc

[red zinc]

ts pmo u lk shkspr fr

💔

[crisp condor]

If you're gonna type every 3rd word on a new line at least be an outrageously fast typer

[novel socket]

no

[lone spear]

n

o

[novel socket]

do it as slowly as possible

[patent mirage]

yes but no

[novel socket]

to trigger guy as much as possible

until he starts shouting

[hollow temple]

I will just mute you

[crisp condor]

I wonder how much Nightfall cudgel is doing scaled to 710 lmao

[hollow temple]

[lime lake]

literally 1984

[red zinc]

I mean honestly fatebound looks fine

But on the other hand this mage was not doing well and now hes on top

So idk

[crisp condor]

That's just the effect of Zac's streamer luck giving him 5 buffs too often. Won't be like that for us

[lone spear]

dont read into ptr damage man

[keen belfry]

how much vers are we gonna have next tier?

[lone spear]

especially week 2 ptr

[keen belfry]

can we complain our secondaries yet?

[patent mirage]

all of it

[lime lake]

0

[keen belfry]

or is that too dooming

[prisma vessel]

i hope like..... 80%

[lime lake]

mastery is getting reworked

[red zinc]

The only thing ill read into is like

[lime lake]

you'll never use vers again

[crisp condor]

Turn from Vers, embrace 40% haste

[red zinc]

when realz came around he said he wanted to make KS feel like a “cd moment”

[lone spear]

mastery increases damage done and reduces damage taken

[prisma vessel]

bruh if mastery gets reworked to something worthwhile, i would die happy.

[red zinc]

And the damage is still a negative impact on your overall from what I can tell

[lime lake]

all the people who complain about mastery gonna miss having 1788995% vers

[patent mirage]

i see

[red zinc]

i dont mind the channel at all

it just doesnt feel like KS does anything impactful, the ub/flawless form are all passive

especially for something thats supposed to be a cd moment

[lone spear]

the gameplay of outlaw is okay, i would say its about the same on live, but thats unfortunate since the only dog part of live is KS

[primal wadi]

that is an issue with the hero talents of rogue in general, they all feel so uninspired

[lone spear]

so if they can make it feel good to press, fix some trickster issues, the gameplay will be good af

[red zinc]

playing some other classes i really dont think its that bad

its not great but

theres a good amount of stinkers out there, some great ones too

always the case

[cinder relic]

Ya I wish fatebound had better visuals

And now that ks is a cool looking button I like trickster more too

[red zinc]

fatebound capstone is uninspired

[cinder relic]

True

[red zinc]

thats my biggest complaint

[prisma vessel]

but coins

[cinder relic]

I hope they bake in the new tier set into it for next expac

[rigid basin]

Fatebound busts out OAB coin into a pack

[red zinc]

make it summon fucking anshuul

[rigid basin]

Kekw

[cinder relic]

It'd be so perfect

[lone spear]

if the lucky coin looked really cool

and had a crazy visual

[red zinc]

Think that was what I said when it was on beta

[lone spear]

it would be nice

like gimmie a fuckin slot machine over my head when it procs

so everyone knows

[red zinc]

like when you hit too many flips in a row you summon a fuckin void demon to put a stop to your lucky spree

that does big blast

would go hard

[mighty pivot]

fatebound capstone should make you cheat when rolling the boners

[lone spear]

lady luck just steps in and like "stop that"

[red zinc]

Thats my 3am random suggestion

Many things they can do

[primal wadi]

so even more loaded dice?

[red zinc]

just not 7% main stat

[craggy barn]

what if it was stacking infinitely 🙂

giga ramp spec

[mighty pivot]

the sleightest of hands

[craggy barn]

loadest die

[patent mirage]

idk but 7% agi that drops out of combat is bad

[red zinc]

ye it just needs to be an instant gratification thing

imo

fuckin “yoo i hit 7 flips” and something just blows the fuck up

[mighty pivot]

the 10s timer on the capstone is pure trolling

[craggy barn]

what if it just added 1% per repeated flip

and stacked

[lone spear]

what if you could accumulate coins instead of them disappearing and capstone gave a talent called like "all in" and you can send them all for a big boom, and if you send a lucky coin its an even bigger boom

[red zinc]

I mean this’d be an okay mid hero talent thing

[patent mirage]

we are cooking now

[craggy barn]

what if a giant coin was summoned on the 7th flip that landed on ur enemies

[proven ocean]

guys

[red zinc]

ZAC ISNT USED TO PLAYING WITHOUT 1h tricks

[echo tide]

Thing from beyond from bfa s4

[cinder relic]

The new ks still has problems that I hope they continue to look at. Mainly the duration, and it's actual damage output. Ik they said the 2 set was going to get changed since its really awkward for both sub and outlaw rn.

But overall the fact that rogue doesn't have a suicide button anymore I feel is such an insane improvement that I'm excited to play the spec again. Ik I'll be playing it in testing

[proven ocean]

live tier set is 20% dps gain why are u dooming about new tier set thats only 4-5% dps gain????

whyy???

-15% dps that can't be bad just be silent about it

!!!

[patent mirage]

not again

[lone spear]

based and real

we arent celebrating the rebirth of KS enough

[fathom bramble]

they also need to be careful about how they buff/fix KS now that the cooldown is doubled

[red zinc]

They can and will literally just increase the numbers on our tier if its that bad

[mighty pivot]

was that thing about 2p said somewhere in public?

[red zinc]

Im not worried about that at all

[fathom bramble]

the value of trickster just took a massive dive(for now)

[red zinc]

Naw trickster stocks back up after watching this

[lone spear]

considering how much better it was than FB in aoe, i dont think its that bad

[red zinc]

Cant play without 1h tricks

you will die to melees no kizzy

[cinder relic]

Yes

[fathom bramble]

obviously trickster is way more reasonable to play now

[cinder relic]

Do u genuinely think I'm saying this

[lone spear]

dont fall for the ragebait guy

[fathom bramble]

but they now need to tune trickster around doubling the cd of KS

cutting some of the strongest parts of trickster in half

[proven ocean]

no

[primal wadi]

at least im grateful that we don't have to deal with deathstalker, god I despise that hero talent so much

[proven ocean]

i think outlaw isn't really in a bad state its just a huge downgrade in gameplay

theres plenty of time anyway and outlaw isnt the worst

[lone spear]

rational thought? in this economy?

[proven ocean]

sub and assa are worse imo

in terms of feeling

sub cant send 2nd coup sometimes

thats cringe

[lone spear]

how is assa dealing with 90sec cd now

[proven ocean]

and sin shiv lasting 100 years is annoying

[proven ocean]

thats veryh easy, new spymaster trinket

flexible with all cd timings

[scarlet glen]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[sullen walrus]

which of trinkets we will use in 11.2?

[lone spear]

whatevers best

usually we go for damage procs and stuff cause of vers stacking

[cinder relic]

I think we just have different bars for where we view the specs. For me old ks was a full on deal breaker. Like I just would not play the spec no matter what this tier because of it. For me ks being no longer a suicide button is already a 10x gameplay improvement

[lone spear]

im rocking these two for now on ptr

[cinder relic]

So even if outlaw is rough rn, both ptr tweaks and rotational tweaks to make it feel better will help

[red zinc]

Has anyone done a dungeon with the mastery delve trinket yet

or did they fix the value

[proven ocean]

i totally agree with this improvement, its great, the issue doesn't rely tie with the tuning of outlaw, but the "rtb situation" being extremely horrible due to the loss of the tier set on top of KS having double cd giving absolutely no synergy

[cinder relic]

Rtb rules will likely go back to ld stuff

[keen belfry]

s1 rtb wasnt too bad

[latent oak]

hopefully

[cinder relic]

Like maybe we go ho no SC back to the old days type shit

[lone spear]

type shit

[keen belfry]

i still want us to have DF S3 tier

[lone spear]

which one was that again?

[keen belfry]

but CTO buffs helped a lot

[latent oak]

u retain a buff when u rolled

it was very nice

[lone spear]

oh right ye

[proven ocean]

no u dont, we want loaded dice to give an extra buff

[keen belfry]

that would be good too

either is fine

[proven ocean]

no

[keen belfry]

i also didnt mean s1 rtb rules

[proven ocean]

the tier was bad

[keen belfry]

😮

[proven ocean]

cuz we had to cast a naked rtb

then a loaded dicde

so it was abit slightly cringe in an unnecessary way

[keen belfry]

im ok wtih slightly cringe

we play outlaw

[proven ocean]

fatebound also below brewmaster

every class is doing 3m-4m btw atm

(dpsers)

especially enh sham its doing 5m st

and 9-10m overall

same with ww monk

10m overall

enh is 8-10 i think enh is rng not sure

[keen river]

My main gripe with current outlaw design is vanish being used as a dmg cd rather than the oh shit escape button I've always seen it as. It's not that fun in solo content.

[mighty pivot]

vanish is fine rotationally for group content but they should look into changing that next expansion if possible because yeah solo content is dogshit

[sullen walrus]

can someone share talents ptr

?

[vivid vessel]

bro

there is a

30% haste

reduc

if you fail the thing

which i was completly clueless about

[primal wadi]

enh won the rng race

[proven ocean]

💀

[vale warren]

does our gcd go above 1s with negative haste

[gaunt phoenix]

Same builds but change sleight to loaded dice

[proven ocean]

ofc not

[mighty pivot]

why is rogue not reading tactics?

[red zinc]

yo wait

intellect tank weapon

dh intellect tank spec?

🧑‍🍳

[proven ocean]

💀 wtf

[jolly geyser]

smart dh?

[red zinc]

idk what that weapon even is

im confused why it exists

[proven ocean]

to make caster comp even more meta in season 3

and make them tankier (meanwhile they're 10 times tankier already)

[red zinc]

its a heroic locked delve weapon zeross

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix how could you say tricksrter works im so conufsed

[red zinc]

never gets used

[vivid vessel]

its like

[red zinc]

dont overcook

[vivid vessel]

not good at all?

i feel like im wasting my time casting ks

i cant proc my ubs

[proven ocean]

told u zac

[chrome iris]

Is vanish/subterfuge bugged? Sorry if this has been asked before, didn't see a post concerning this. We're on Gally right now and sometimes when I vanish, subterfuge doesn't trigger. Vanish is on CD but I can't use BtE or anything.

[vivid vessel]

i press ks so i dont have time to fish for cto

[proven ocean]

best rogue analyst in the west right here

[vivid vessel]

i feel like the most optimal is to low cp ks

[proven ocean]

[vivid vessel]

low cp dougle coup

[red zinc]

do you have a trinket in a vanish / bte macro?

[vivid vessel]

i have 0 adr uptime

[mighty pivot]

do you have magnet macro'd to your BTE?

[vivid vessel]

maybe washed up tho

its been a while

[proven ocean]

ye washed up

[chrome iris]

Not magnet, but the keys

[gaunt phoenix]

Uh I felt pretty chill though I was HO

[proven ocean]

AR uptime is same as live zac

it didnt change

[red zinc]

ye you cant break stealth with a trinket

[mighty pivot]

keys break it too

[red zinc]

cancels subterfuge

[vivid vessel]

im kir

[chrome iris]

fucking hell.

[vivid vessel]

and i cant press ss

ks being a builder throws everytjign off

[rotund depot]

how many escalating blade stacks is outlaw losing in a 5min test

[signal ingot]

you guys got a details for ptr?

[rotund depot]

due to the 4pc blocking stacks for 5 sec

[chrome iris]

Didn't happen before this patch 😄 Thanks for helping out

[mighty pivot]

it's been happening for a while now

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel did u read my thoughts on outlaw from lasdt night

or did u ignore it

as usual

?

[mighty pivot]

must've been luck if you didn't have it before

[vivid vessel]

I read

and then you said

ace was bad

so i discarded everything

[proven ocean]

ye

[chrome iris]

Probably, perhaps also simple different timings yet

[proven ocean]

not saying ace is bad

u misunderstood

it has bad synergy with current KS

because it gives full energy

[vivid vessel]

nah

[proven ocean]

full cp*

[vivid vessel]

its trickster

that has bad synergy

with everything else

[proven ocean]

yes thats what i was saying tho

KS is just garbage atm

[vivid vessel]

also i wasnt feeling how long was ks

until now

cause now

you are just afk

[proven ocean]

its way longer

with supercharger it lasts 10 years

for what

3% dps

[gaunt phoenix]

I still cancel it

[vivid vessel]

maybe i need to do that

[gaunt phoenix]

I guess it is longer as kir

[proven ocean]

i finish soon

wnana play

2 min

[vivid vessel]

ye

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel monksea is here tmrw btw

kinda cool we can see how broken brew is

cuz everyone sucks at it apparently

[stuck sparrow]

which hero tree

[vivid vessel]

bro the fact this dungeon

is litteraly unplaybale

without inky

is crazy

@proven ocean

it legit breaks my eyes

im not joking

[primal wadi]

still canceling your spender feels so unintuitive, its like if warrs canceled bladestorm because it last too long lol

[frail veldt]

Yeah if cancelling is optimal I hope that motivates blizz to fix it

[keen belfry]

doing no dmg + overcapping cps + channeling too long = cancel

[drowsy pebble]

anyone have an issue with there tricks wa or macro not working today? im using the smart misdirect wa and macro but keep getting invlaid target. Theres a tank role and the player is dismounted still no bueno

[keen belfry]

i wonde rhow much dmg it has to do for it to be worth channel time + overcapping

[vivid vessel]

but its not even about damage tho

idk

[keen belfry]

i agree

[vivid vessel]

it bricks the rotation so much

[keen belfry]

its still should do more dmg tho

"cd worthy moment"

that you want to cancel

makes sense

[inland acorn]

Worked fine for me in raid

[cinder relic]

It should award the cp at the end of the cast

No canceling allowed

[vivid vessel]

ye that sounds like something they would do

[keen belfry]

I want it to send 1cp dispatches everytime it generates one

[vivid vessel]

blizzard always finds a way to have the most dogshit fixes imaginable

[keen belfry]

have it autoconsume its cps

[primal wadi]

Do you think it would fix it if you could still do other actions while channeling?

[keen belfry]

maybe it slice n dice /canncelaura slice and dice during its channel

lean into our bug abusing

[latent oak]

lmao

long channel does give u time to flame ur tank mid pull tho

[stuck sparrow]

real

[vapid blaze]

idk it would be fine if they speed it up ontop

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel rdy?

[latent oak]

what if it just consumed all the combo points it generated at the end of its cast

[lone spear]

it would be fine if they removed adrenaline rush, made its effects baseline and turned killing spree into a big damage cd

but they wont do that because they dont see the vision i fear

[cinder relic]

PERMA AR

[lone spear]

90%, 100%, whats the diff at this point xdd

[cinder relic]

Ideally we go back to 50%

[latent oak]

50% uptime of the 0.8s gcd would feel so bad

[lone spear]

i mean i hated on that idea before, but playing mop classic and having AR be like 30% uptime isnt mega terrible

df s1 was fun tbf

[cinder relic]

Outlaw had 50% ar uptime for multiple years at a time, and it felt fine

Didn't feel slow or anything

[latent oak]

that may be true

[lone spear]

its all about energy

if u can press buttons, it wont feel bad

[latent oak]

but would still feel like a downgrade

[vivid vessel]

yes

[cinder relic]

Basically ya

[vivid vessel]

but they removed energy

[keen belfry]

how do you solve the outlaw energy problem

[lone spear]

remove energy

[cinder relic]

Lowering ar uptime would have to be paired with baseline energy increases ofc

[cinder relic]

Buff ff, buff Br

[sharp hinge]

are we cooked or is there hope

[cinder relic]

Br used to be a solid spell for energy for awhile but u don't really need that anymore

[lone spear]

i gotta find that graph

[sudden fulcrum]

all hope is lost reroll to SV hunter

[cinder relic]

Because the baseline energy income is so high

[keen belfry]

could they simply reduce ss cost?

[cinder relic]

Rough around the edges still but there's still hope

[sharp hinge]

i refuse to go in the surv hunter discord

[cinder relic]

Not just ss costs no

[sharp hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/theresachange-dumband-dumber-jim-carrey-yes-telling-me-gif-4933650

[cinder relic]

Ud have to buff like, overall energy income most likely not just 1 spells cost

[keen belfry]

yeah thats true

rtb is a lot too

gs

gs is 120% of your energy i think

[cinder relic]

Lowering ar uptime would obviously have to come with tweaks

[latent oak]

delete gs frfr

[lone spear]

based

[keen belfry]

make gs a buff

[latent oak]

even if it was a buff

[cinder relic]

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. More ar uptime means more cdr means more gs means more energy spent on gs

[keen belfry]

you are outlaw rogue u take a sip of beer

[latent oak]

would still be a boring button

[lone spear]

eh, i like its niche as a ST amp

but it needs to be cheaper or more impactful

[keen belfry]

true a lot stems from more ar

[cinder relic]

I think now that ks has been made into a real spell. There's room for gsw and gs to be baked into ks as "upgrade ks" talents the same way ret paladin has for wake

[keen belfry]

i think id really hate non crackshot outlaw

[cinder relic]

Something like "at the end of ks cast fire one final shot for additional damage" for gsw and gs could just be "ks marks all targets with gs"

I think ks being a functional spell opens up design space

[keen belfry]

i wasnt a real outlaw player before crakshot

[cinder relic]

Whether that's explored is a different question

[lone spear]

non crackshot outlaw was fun in df

[patent mirage]

At the end of ks you aoe pistol shot

[lone spear]

its just now that we've had the crack, can we go back

[latent oak]

ks already does that with trickster kinda

with fazed

[craggy barn]

we can go back

look at spriest

[twilit rivet]

Crackshot sshould just be baseline

[craggy barn]

they lost surrender

[twilit rivet]

come at me

[craggy barn]

and theyre fine 🙂

[twilit rivet]

i'll die on this hill

[cinder relic]

Okay sure whatever

U get the point

[latent oak]

yaya wasnt disagreein g

[patent mirage]

Welp

[cinder relic]

Ikik

[keen belfry]

what was non crackshot outlaw even like i dont remember s1 DF or some of s2

wasnt it very easy

?

[lone spear]

also change blade rush please for the love of god every time i see that talent i cry

its an affront to game design

[cinder relic]

Br is fine it's just bad for current outlaw

[lone spear]

yea thats the thing, it is a relic of a bygone era

[cinder relic]

S1 DF was about looping audacity procs and fan the hammer procs, and using vanish/shd to "refill" on proc loops

[lone spear]

it will never be good as it is without insane (impossible) buffs

[late swallow]

somehow, palpatine returned

[cinder relic]

I don't think u should delete any talent any time it's not auto pick.

[keen belfry]

didnt uhhh ambush or ps fill your combo points eveyr time

[hardy thicket]

All of the previous Outlaw iterations were fun as hell I wouldnt care if the whole crackshot thing went away

[lone spear]

delete, no. change, 100%

[cinder relic]

They nerfed fan in the mid szn patch to not do so

[keen belfry]

like it was ambush finsiher ps finisher

i just

think any non crackshot outlaw

[cinder relic]

Not exactly but mostly

[keen belfry]

sounds really boring

[latent oak]

ya i think it will be hard to go back

[cinder relic]

There was a lot of mintuia to still keep up with

[lone spear]

you had to be there

[cinder relic]

Minutia

[keen belfry]

i was not good at the game in s1 and early s2 when this outlaw existed

[cinder relic]

Small details still mattered lol

[lone spear]

i think current outlaw does have more going on, but s1 df outlaw was great in its own way

until you rolled grand melee + buried trasure

[cinder relic]

Every version of outlaw is cool and interesting in its own way

[late swallow]

s3 df outlaw tho????

[lone spear]

and just wanted to self destruct irl

[cinder relic]

And that's what I like about the spec

[late swallow]

s3 tier makes me throb

[cinder relic]

It changes a lot, despite not getting a lot of direct changes

[keen belfry]

i legit think current law is very fun

[sharp hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/what-do-you-mean-by-that-gif-10559980082154008380

[keen belfry]

it sjust KS

and tier is a little iffy for me

[lone spear]

live tier?

or u talking ptr?

[keen belfry]

live

[vivid vessel]

ffed my first key

[hardy thicket]

Tbh the most boring Outlaw iteration I can think of is still the one that got me hooked on the spec

[lone spear]

live tier is pure passive mostly

never think about it

[sharp hinge]

what if one person says no or goes afk

[cinder relic]

Current outlaw is great, but ks is the worst spell in wow for me so

[vivid vessel]

4 vote needed

[mighty pivot]

report outlaw x9

[keen belfry]

i mean, rtb is very different rn

[cinder relic]

That's what I'm more excited for anyway. Just being able to enjoy the spec again

[sharp hinge]

i want to say it should be majority vote, either 3 yes or no

[lone spear]

yea, i guess the tier contributes to the spam rolling

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel outlaw looking rly bad ngl

[lone spear]

its also the strength of sleight buffs + SC

[proven ocean]

ur dps looks insanely low

5m overall is diabolical

[vivid vessel]

i dced

lol

i wasnt there for a whole pack

i was at 7mil after first boss w

wasnt that bad

[hollow rampart]

fatebound or trick?

currently zac

[vivid vessel]

idk

both trash

[sharp hinge]

uncap our aoe

[lone spear]

bro that vid is hilarious

and so accurate to this sub

[vivid vessel]

whats the name of the crit blet

[primal wadi]

Critical chain

[lone spear]

i also think its worth mentioning if rogue is getting some attention, maybe the class tree can get some love

would love some interesting choices there

[cinder relic]

I'm soft expecting large rogue changes for midnight

It's been awhile, sub never got the full rework it needed, it's a good opportunity for a reset of resources, sin is perfect atm so I wouldn't touch it

[late swallow]

big rework happening

[lone spear]

i could see it, theres also been a growing community sentiment of "wow rogue kinda sucks huh? thats sad"

[late swallow]

4th rogue spec surely

[lone spear]

one of the lower pop classes too

[lone spear]

HOOOOLY

what if DH fight isnt for the new dh spec, but a void rogue comes out of the shadows and assasinates them all and thats the 4th rogue spec

[sharp hinge]

rogue is one of the harder specs to play and its not doing so hot

[latent oak]

rogue needs a 4th melee dps spec i think

[lone spear]

yea from what i've read most people do think that like, all rogue specs just play jank

[sharp hinge]

best we can do is give DHs a third dps spec

[late swallow]

we need a 4 melee dps spec class

[last scarab]

ddos?

[lone spear]

which isnt really true, but thats the narrative

[fluid meadow]

yeah, need 2 handed spec, great for vault

[sharp hinge]

give us a samurai spec, 2 handed sword weilder

[candid sundial]

Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel take a nerf ?

[dawn talon]

they're not wrong but the jank is what makes rogue fun

i could 100% see a more void themed sub rework fwiw

seeing as that's the new source of all the shadow magic in the game for the mostpart

[latent oak]

kyveza - the spec

[lone spear]

yea, right now it has like a weird death thing going with the left side of tree

[dawn talon]

it's trying to be like

[lone spear]

like "the rotten" isnt what i think of when i think of shadows

[rigid basin]

When I think Rotten I think of that boss in the bottom of that pit in DS2

[lone spear]

fuck that guy

[candid sundial]

i didn't see nerf for Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel why many rogue dont play it now ?

[dawn talon]

physical subterfuge/deception & shadow magic

on the left and right respectively

but the theming kinda fails

i rly like this iteration of sub but it feels like blizzard doesn't

[lone spear]

i mean, they want specs to appeal to a certain demographic for sure

but that demographic has to be enough to warrant its existence

making a spec so few people would want to play isnt good for game health

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix actually feel better canceling ks

i had/stopchannel in every spell

so i couldnt even cancel if i wantwed to

[latent oak]

idk its ok to design some parts of the game for smaller groups of ppl

[late swallow]

zac are you stoked for the new outlaw iteration?

[lone spear]

i agree from a design perspective, but blizz is a company, and rogue is often an archetype new players are drawn to

[late swallow]

KS channel is so cool and flavorful

[lone spear]

and having them faced with slow, punishing gameplay

[proven ocean]

@late swallow im doing more dps than zac in ptr, thoughts?

zac washed confirmed?

[lone spear]

or super fast gameplay

is kinda offputting

[sudden fulcrum]

zac has the French debuff

it's not fair

[late swallow]

damn you're gonna be the new sin AND outlaw guide writer????

holy

sub next????

[fallow hinge]

yikes

[proven ocean]

already kick of sub

[late swallow]

[proven ocean]

sub is the easiest spec in the game

[fallow hinge]

pretty sure ret's easier

[proven ocean]

ez to play perfect or maybe just built diff

[fallow hinge]

and bm

[lone spear]

theres a reason its called sub rogue, cause you just pay your sub and it plays itself

[fallow hinge]

ngl my mind went to a diff place

[lone spear]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-huh-m4rtin-huh-huh-meme-what-cat-gif-5834484041415217257

[dusty blaze]

is there a precise time in seconds of AR buff time remaining.....where we send vanish instead of KS to preserve AR?

[fallow hinge]

I'll explain when you're older

[lone spear]

i get much older im gonna turn to dust

uncs pushing 30

[lime lake]

Sub players are submissive and breedable

[fallow hinge]

diddums

pushing 30

I just pushed 32 cuh

[fallow hinge]

thank you for saying the words so I didn't have to

[late swallow]

damn

[fallow hinge]

feeling called out?

:P

[rigid basin]

New shitpost unlocked

[lime lake]

I knew he wouldn't be far

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/achievement-achievement-unlocked-hoedown-submissive-body-language-breed-able-gif-26027701

[lone spear]

maybe i should play sub then

[rigid basin]

LMAO

[rigid basin]

Same tbh

[fallow hinge]

just be careful if you're in ToP

[mighty pivot]

not wrong though

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah they should prolly cut the duration

I dont mind canceling it but i dont think blizzard wants it

[glass mortar]

zac ive been drivin for 9 hours straight what did i miss

i peaked in here at a rest stop and i saw people dooming on foreverguy

[mighty pivot]

cancelling would be cringe

[latent oak]

are u ryan gosling

[lime lake]

he is yeah

[glass mortar]

maybe

you dont know me

[latent oak]

crazy

[glass mortar]

😠

[latent oak]

u are legit him

[late swallow]

where are you driving to king?

stopping by DC?

[glass mortar]

down to virginia for work

[late swallow]

let's get some food

[glass mortar]

just staying overnight

[late swallow]

oh shit you're unironically near DC

[vivid vessel]

i think the gameplay is completly borked

trickster 2p feels terrible

[latent oak]

9 more hours tomorrow

[vivid vessel]

i cnanot feel it at all but i also feel like im wasting it all cause im not casting ss

ks giving cps feels bad cause i need to build to coup

[glass mortar]

i mean it was always the worse of the all 3 of the sets we got imo yea

like

[vivid vessel]

ks is too long and feels like nothing

only good thing is double coup is cool

[glass mortar]

unseen is already untrackable kinda, hard to work into the rotation if u need to

[mighty pivot]

have you tried our lord saviour HO with it?

[glass mortar]

and ur just adding more unseen gen but as pure rng

[vivid vessel]

i tried fatebound also

fatebound flow way mroe nicely

but its fatebound

its just outlaw

i dont wanna play fatebound anywya

[late swallow]

idk man I like FB

[cinder oxide]

fatebound snooozeeeeee

[cinder relic]

FB is chill

[cinder oxide]

maybe if it was more visually interesting than chucking quarters

[cinder relic]

FB ho

Absolute chill ass outlaw

[mighty pivot]

FB to style on people with quad hook in dornogal

[gaunt phoenix]

Fatebound tier is prolly like twice as strong as trickster tier

[sharp hinge]

quad hook is a gimmick

[latent oak]

do we get deterministic lucky coin on pull with fatebound tier?

[vivid vessel]

no but kinda proc fast

with tier

[mighty pivot]

quad hook is mostly useless but it is

[vivid vessel]

so its alright

[sharp hinge]

where tf would you even use quad hook, outside of stealing a flag in BG's

[mighty pivot]

it's for the cool points

[latent oak]

in dornogal

as he said

[cinder oxide]

yeah its all style

[latent oak]

makes u very quick at getting to the vault on reset

[sharp hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-fish-hooks-does-this-look-dangerous-gif-7888883

[rigid basin]

Quad hook + BR

https://tenor.com/view/shaggy-scooby-motorcycle-fast-run-fast-gif-17006267

[fallow hinge]

+gate + rescue + grip

[rigid basin]

See she gets it

[latent oak]

ive stolen ur gif

its too good

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/ukpw-grapple-fans-greetings-grapple-fans-gif-27245473

[sharp hinge]

whats UKPW

oh its pro wrestling lmao

https://www.ukpwwrestling.co.uk/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

[mighty pivot]

uk pirate wrestling?

[craggy barn]

get to a spot to start rp faster for ur m+ group

[worldly shale]

uk pdf wrestling

[mighty pivot]

or get ahead and taunt the slowies

[sharp hinge]

you dont need that for ToP

[craggy barn]

i didnt say top

[sharp hinge]

was the only one i could think of lol

[worldly shale]

maybe u need it for bottom

[scarlet glen]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[mighty pivot]

you don't need quads to bottom

[craggy barn]

its not really useful this season

aside from maybe tricksing a bunch of adds in dfc gauntlet to ur tank

just taking a candle and zooming

to help gather

it was pretty op in city of threads last season

probably gonna be really op in streets

for the collection mini game

[glass mortar]

i got actual usage out of quad hook

i covered a ranged mine across the entire room from us when its person died on sprocket prog

aka the only place ive touched fatebound this season

it was funny just being like "i got it" and then covering an entire boss room and back in under 3s

[mighty pivot]

also for lighting candles on blazikon

[covert kestrel]

It's the classic make ks usable but bad into making trickster unplayable slop into full rework decimating outlaws high apm gameplay for single button enjoyers that we all knew was coming after ions remarks

https://tenor.com/view/kronk-its-all-coming-together-gif-15058130

[late swallow]

deep state confirmed?

[latent oak]

i've been watching x files recently and there was an episode about shareholders influencing outlaw game design

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/xfiles-gillian-anderson-scully-skeptical-gif-7007492

Smoking Man is behind this

[proven ocean]

no double coup is bad, just increase effectiveness of coup and dmg by 100%, 3 sec gcd is bullshit

[latent oak]

im watching it for the first time and jsut finished s5, hyped to watch the movie

[proven ocean]

im convinced realz just thought of the bug and implemented it to call it a day but thats fine

we get more changes soon

surely

[frank bane]

Based. FB is ass.

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/gucciberg-gif-22753941

[tropic zephyr]

Meme of the day fr

[late swallow]

people are saying that guy is creating an AIPAC coalition amongst the blizz shareholders

and it's not looking good for outlaw

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/the-truth-is-out-there-gif-10156602

[vivid vessel]

it give cdr

which is well needed rn

• the gameplay is ok

idk

i think tis the only thing that works

[proven ocean]

i said effectiveness zac

read cuh

so double cdr

double flawless form

with 1 coup

only

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1379273688616013984.webp?size=96&animated=true

[vivid vessel]

hm

[proven ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1379273688616013984.webp?size=96&animated=true

[random stirrup]

Give 30 combo point dispatch

[vivid vessel]

I like the added gampelay tho

[proven ocean]

i mean

i hate casting coup twice

make it double the power

i dislike pressing it twice i told u before zac

i kinda hate the design personally

but thats just me so

[mighty pivot]

the mob gets deleted from the game permanently

[late swallow]

let us just continue to bank CPs

[mighty pivot]

all outlaws will go to ML to 30cp dispatch the extractors once and for all

[hybrid crown]

Coup>KS>coup???

[mighty pivot]

wouldn't most issues with the current coup implementation be fixed if it was a different buff instead of timed EB? You can keep building stacks while getting the CP for the second coup

[glossy pewter]

Ok boys im getting back into outlaw, and reading up on trickster for the first time

is this not the most whack a mole fucking spec of all time??? there aren't conditions, there isn't anything to think about its just a priority list and reroll til 5buff?

[sudden fulcrum]

casino spec

[covert kestrel]

Reject ho, embrace KiR brother

[fossil lintel]

Would just doubling the CP bonus of coup have the same effect on CDR and damage?

[prisma vessel]

does KiR do more dmg?

[fossil lintel]

So coup would be a +8 cp, instead of double coup at +4 each?

[late swallow]

i think it would equate to the same damage + CDR, but you're getting a whole global back by collapsing it into one cast

which would effectively help you cycle cdr faster

[glossy pewter]

I have been a KIR enjoyer since day fucking dot, fuck HO

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/based-uh-hello-based-department-based-department-american-psycho-patrick-bateman-gif-22458382

[fossil lintel]

+8 CP dispatch would go hard, imagine guaranteed 3cp back 😂

[cinder relic]

Get ready to learn ho buddy

[worldly shale]

"learn"

[ancient cobalt]

i love the new ani

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/laugh-out-loud-laugh-ridiculous-hilarious-lolz-gif-17376550074772904877

[red zinc]

would rather reroll aug than play ho

Type shit

[covert kestrel]

Might as well just play BM

Or balance

[rigid basin]

Or Ret xd

[cinder relic]

Ho fatebound gamers rise up

[rigid basin]

Not sure why Orc's can't be paladins. Ret is total Zug energy

[frank finch]

[rigid basin]

I don't hate HO, I just prefer KiR /shrug

[cinder relic]

Valid

[stuck patrol]

This is a totally random question, but does anyone remember how many finishers per minute approximately we cast back in palace (BFA)?

I don't expect anyone to remember, but figured I'd ask. Trying to check something.

[sudden fulcrum]

seems like you could probably look at logs to answer that

[stuck patrol]

Warcraftlogs won't let me access old logs like that unless I pay them LMAO

Because they are "archived"

[deep cedar]

how do i close a thread?

[stuck patrol]

I don't wanna pay them $5 for something dumb

[craggy barn]

u can right click it on the left bar and leave it

but u cant close it urself

[deep cedar]

kk thx

[cinder relic]

Why do u ask

[stuck patrol]

Just general curiosity comparing it to now, I also remembered an old Ashvane fight where I literally rerolled the entire fight. Mentioned it here a couple months after, and people straight up called me a liar because it was "statistically impossible". I thought about it the other day and I wanted to calculate the statistical chance of that happening

Like I said, it's a dumb reason. I'm just having an autistic fixation on this rn, it ain't information that is super important to me or anything LMAO

[cinder relic]

Nah it's fine was just wondering

[stuck patrol]

I tried to find the log to prove it, but there were so many logs to go through and I didn't have the time

[timber knoll]

Ok is outlaw pumping or is it slumping

[craggy barn]

yes

[stuck patrol]

Dumping

[cinder relic]

Rn seems not great, but I think that's more a kir issue than outlaw in general

[stuck patrol]

Are we still on the HO arc?

😎

Comfy af

[cinder relic]

Ho fatebound seems quite solid

Back to loaded dice

[stuck patrol]

That's wild, even in AOE?

[cinder relic]

Uh trickster might be better in aoe post 2 set rework and more ks tweaks but idk yet

[stuck patrol]

Wait, which 2 set got reworked?

[scarlet surge]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[covert kestrel]

Well the gameplay loop of trickster hasn't really been updated to reflect the changes to killing spree and some of the pain points of the current gameplay loop have been exacerbated by this so yea not great in it's current state

[stuck patrol]

That's what I was saying the other day, but people were getting grumpy at me for some reason

A shame we are going back to loaded dice though. I enjoyed this season's tier set, rolling big buffs all time time was fun

[cinder relic]

Trickster 2 set will likely get changed

Realz said as much

[stuck patrol]

Oh he did? Interesting

[toxic umbra]

would be a shame to have Killing Spree reworked and end up not playing it.

Im hoping, whatever happens, killing spree is part of it!

[cinder relic]

It clashes for both sub and outlaw so

[covert kestrel]

Wowheads mobile ad experience might be actually the worst I've ever encountered

[cinder relic]

I think it's cool if nothing else that we have multiple different versions of the spec when it comes to stuff like ho, kir, and now ld/sleight

It'll ebb and flow each tier odds are

Esp for fatebound ld gets a lot better

[stuck patrol]

Agreed. I like the ability. As long as it works well it seems like an exciting ability to press

[sullen walrus]

boys, u think they will change something for outlaw or no in s3?

[cinder relic]

Wdym change something

[covert kestrel]

No they are going to keep it exactly the same between now and mid august

[red zinc]

[covert kestrel]

They just do PTR for funsies

[sullen walrus]

ks cooldown, tier set buffs

[torpid fiber]

I think the fact that we've had HO and KIR both viable for so long is really awesome

[sullen walrus]

kir trickster is still bad in s3 as for me

[cinder relic]

I doubt they lower it from now, they are likely to change tier

[sullen walrus]

s2 tier set is awesome
but now i don’t understand gameplay for kir trickster fr

[stuck patrol]

Why would anyone want to play trickster kir tho lmao, KS and kir is just funky

[hexed snow]

hey guys, anyone know why we can't track fazed targets? spell ID should be 441224 but seems like i cant make a weakaura for it

[cinder relic]

Even if they continue to change the Tier and such, the entire trickster rotation will likely need to be modified in some way

Ho seems favored going into this tier

But I said the same thing about kir last tier until the ho SC build popped up

[red zinc]

Ho dslice sim dps is a myth

Random tangent

but idk its always “ho is close or equal to kir on dslice” and then i never see ho players beat kir players in same key

[sullen walrus]

iBut i think they killed outlaw dps
But will see

[cinder relic]

Based on what

[covert kestrel]

Not to be rude but didn't you start playing outlaw like 3 weeks ago lol

[sullen walrus]

For kir build

[cinder relic]

The first patch of ptr?

[torpid fiber]

Outlaw will be fine

[sullen walrus]

Like 1 month ago

[hybrid crown]

There could be a patch tomorrow that turns one knob and outlaw is op meta spec

It's always like that

[royal bane]

Numbers don't matter that much this early it's design that should be a concern

[sullen walrus]

op - what does it mean?

[hybrid crown]

Overpowered

[royal bane]

What I said ?

[sullen walrus]

can someone share a talent tree for kir build in ptr?

[civic zephyr]

Dumb question: If I'm playing HO to help eliminate "button bloat" or to help brain zugzug more what do you guys think about making a macro that casted BtE and if it was on CD it would default to dispatch?

[covert kestrel]

Nope

Doesn't work like that

[red zinc]

impossible

[civic zephyr]

oh damn

[covert kestrel]

And tbh outlaw has like 6 buttons so macros like that won't help

Button bloat is opposite on law

[torpid fiber]

Macros can't check cooldowns

[red zinc]

Ill never get the button bloat thing on law

We really dont have that many buttons

Buff bloat for sure

[sullen walrus]

please

[vivid vessel]

no

play kir from live

but swap sleight to loaded dice

[red zinc]

zinc saw ptr numbers and became evoker main

[covert kestrel]

Enjoy it while you can type beat

[blissful idol]

Zac new ks acceptable ?

[random geyser]

Why will they only buff rtb on tier sets 😢

[vivid vessel]

mnah

[torpid fiber]

zinc

[vivid vessel]

legit feels worse than on live

but i need more testing

i only did 3 keys

[red zinc]

zac + twink

[blissful idol]

Gg

[torpid fiber]

TRUE

[dark fractal]

zac what do you get on your belt

did yo uremoved that shit

[vivid vessel]

crit

[dark fractal]

or no

aight

[vivid vessel]

ye crit is 0.76 gain

huge

[dark fractal]

8 dungeon in row

0 proc

the crystal shit

it's not even bugged

it don't even work

trash belt

[prisma vessel]

were any of those keys fatebound?

[red zinc]

aint that on the maxed one

[random geyser]

Why would you do a key as fb over trick

[vivid vessel]

no

[prisma vessel]

idk

[vivid vessel]

or maybe

idk

[prisma vessel]

xD

[vivid vessel]

no idea

its shit

but better than normal belt

[red zinc]

Because trickster got tuned down with ks changes

[vivid vessel]

idc much

[red zinc]

people just tryin shit

The purpose of ptr

[torpid fiber]

public tryshit realm

[prisma vessel]

i srsly can't wait for the new KS since i just died on first bos of rookery today.......

[random geyser]

Did they tune down bf damage on it?

[red zinc]

Pull boss before they clear last pack so you get trash on boss that you can 1ks during intermission

[prisma vessel]

knowing my luck, ill still die

[clear zephyr]

which titan disc for the week?

[rapid mica]

Pinned says go back to your 684 belt if it's a good one unless you're feeling lucky, Charged Crystal our backup power can and will just stop working, after death/some random trigger, and the crit/vers procs are marginal dps gains at higher ilvls

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

monksea on ptr is funny

imagine if he has druid buff and aug buffs tanks

[red zinc]

ox buug

fixed next week

Still strong though

[vivid vessel]

my tank is ethical

why shit talk my tank

[lime lake]

[red zinc]

Retail is cooked bro

wtf happened in this weekly reset

Game freezing left and right

[covert kestrel]

I watch monksea and I'm like, I should play brew. Then I play brew and get steamrolled by 7s

[red zinc]

Last boss ML bug

[red zinc]

Brew is easier to play on 12s than 7s

[restive obsidian]

am I crazy or does cold blood work with the new killing spree

[covert kestrel]

Is it cooked to learn brew now or just save it for post rework

[proven ocean]

ethical is fake

just run best bug best abuse

and u enjoy

and dmg multiplier WA

EZ

full pump mode 50m overall

[red zinc]

Barely a rework

just send it

Its fun

[gaunt phoenix]

my discord is completely fried

[covert kestrel]

Inv?

[woeful tulip]

Hey I read through the rotation guide in the outlaw faq and I had a question

Do you ignore the broadside minmax if youre at 6 stacks fth and just press pistol shot if you need a builder like in the 2fth build?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah 6 stacks has priority over cps

but technically the trickster thing has priority over that

pressing ss if you are guaranteed to consume unseen blade

outside of stealth

[woeful tulip]

Alright tyvm for the answer

[radiant root]

[proven ocean]

who
[<RH>]
— 4:21 AM

[vapid sundial]

[lone spear]

anyone got a rogue pov of doing 4th bomb on gally? will pay with kissies

[ember goblet]

is there certa9in dungeons ya'll would run KIR over HO like in 17's-18's? i should always be KIR?

[plucky chasm]

Can u show this brat ? Waht u mean

[latent belfry]

god fuck whyyyyy isnt ks changed yet fuck

[covert kestrel]

pretty much whichever you feel comfortable with

[latent belfry]

cant wait to be rid of this awful skill forever

[wintry solar]

BLIZZARD

MAKE KILLING SPREE A PVP TALENT AND MY LIFE IS YOURS

[rapid lion]

[eager rose]

yes, we could already be using the new version...

[latent oak]

new version isnt ready yet

[wintry solar]

But my body is...

[hollow coyote]

Is outlaw really hard to play?

[torpid fiber]

it takes practice

[hollow coyote]

Im currently running sin but been tempted to try one of the other 2

Or outlaw

specifically

[torpid fiber]

Outlaw rocks and I love it but it isn't for everyone, no way to know until you try it

[hollow coyote]

Gotcha

I may give it a whirl

Gotta be easier then sub at least

[torpid fiber]

they're very different types of difficulty

[hollow coyote]

Oh ok 😮

and i know most ppl say sin is the go to starting rogue spec

[torpid fiber]

outlaw is about consistency at a constant high speed, sub is about executing the burst windows correctly and understanding how to play around them

[median lance]

Im more alpha than you cause I only use 1 button rotation the way blizzard intended

[plain agate]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[proven ocean]

The kind of guides i like to learn from at 6 am

[granite merlin]

So serious talk frands what’s best way to make rotation muscle memory

Do I just start and not use ad rush vanish etc

[covert kestrel]

Sub is hard for like the first hour or two when you don't know what your buttons are, but then after that it's piss easy

[covert kestrel]

You need to use all your tools to practice muscle memory

Playing outlaw without adr is like riding a bike with no wheels

[granite merlin]

Sub was the most complicated thing I have ever learned in wow……now it’s easiest rotation in game once you get it lol

Any advice fronteir?

[covert kestrel]

And no vanish is like riding a bike with no frame

Hit dummies and play the game

Just gotta get used it to it

[granite merlin]

Should I play with dice helper?

[random stirrup]

imo its a good thing to start with until you have some muscle memory with building/spending

[granite merlin]

I feel like the more stuff I add the dumber I get lol

[covert kestrel]

Idk if it's updated to most recent rules

[random stirrup]

like if you're purely starting from zero

but should remove it relatively quickly

[granite merlin]

Let’s make believe I am. Last time I played outlaw I slammed hekili to get a feel

Kinda get the base concept but when things get faster and faster

The car crashes

I have a strong desire to one trick outlaw though 😄

[torpid fiber]

my personal big tip is have at least one of your weakauras somewhere set up so it's also showing your gcd

acts as a kind of metronome almost and helps you keep the right pace

[plucky chasm]

I see everyone got hes own Keybinds (its something personal and up to everyone) but i feel i have the most dogshit binds idk. Xd

[cinder relic]

i'm so ready to blast some shit in raid tomorrow

aftebound, ks

Hit those raid bosses with an absolute screamer

[plucky chasm]

I play for example 12345, QERT, S1-4, Alt1-4 & F1-4

[brave lagoon]

why not use the key on the left of 1, whatever that symbol is called

[plucky chasm]

U mean ^ xd i have ping on that shit

[brave lagoon]

I mean that key outputs different shit depending on keyboard config so

[plucky chasm]

Yeah

Idk bro i see ppl playing 1234 and have stuff on that like cds or Shadowatep idk

I have main builder and spendern on that

[cinder relic]

This mine

[brave lagoon]

fatebound and KS?

[cinder relic]

ya

[brave lagoon]

is this some new ptr build cooking I wasn't aware of

[plucky chasm]

For example on F1-4 i have my defs etc

[torpid fiber]

i play on a razer tartarus pro now so my binds are kinda weird without that context but before that i was using 12345rfv and shift/ctrl/alt

[hollow coyote]

Thats good to know

[cinder relic]

Uh idk I'm just clicking shit

The alternative is mg proc damage so

Playing this for ptr

Might drop KS for MG since its kinda buggy rn, it keeps canceling for FB

[cedar kernel]

check this

@vivid vessel

[brave lagoon]

:hmm vigor and tea too

[cedar kernel]

[cinder relic]

SC + Sleight were tier set synergy