outlaw

[high shell]

My dumb ass thought they were spending Ace procs on dispatch. I should learn how to read lol

[vivid vessel]

Keep some energy

[proven ocean]

ye sure

i will dw

im a gamer now zac

unlike army days i get tired

[vivid vessel]

Nice

Ross

Since my team play in the afternoon or night

I might wake up morning

This weekend

To play ptr

[proven ocean]

tmrw porsea will play late at night

if u wanna come

and thursday aswell

[vivid vessel]

On ptr?

[proven ocean]

y

e

ye

[vivid vessel]

Tomorrow I can't since I work the next day

[proven ocean]

ye thats why hes playing ig

[vivid vessel]

But Thursday I can do that

[civic zephyr]

This might be a dumb question - but if you're playing HO , do we also spam BTE as a finisher whenever it's available or do we just maintain it's buff? Because on raidbots I see that BtE is supposed to be the highest dmging skill.

I thought that was only for KiR?

[vivid vessel]

Also Friday after like 15:00

Im on ptr ross

[royal bane]

You spam bte with every build

[vivid vessel]

Good,m

[proven ocean]

yy

good

oh

wait

no

i come maybe

after 1-2 hr cuz i have meeting at that time zac ish

i end around that time when u come

[royal bane]

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/856897810536071208

[vivid vessel]

Okok

[proven ocean]

so drive to home

then im rdyu

[glass mortar]

its crackshot

both builds goal is the same

to spam bte as much as possible at proper cp during crackshot

they just do it a little differently

[civic zephyr]

so whenever I can use BtE i should use it instead of dispatch?

[glass mortar]

for trickster in general, keeping bte on cd (casting it between crackshots) is lower prio then anything but dispatch

yea basically

[gaunt phoenix]

Bte has no cooldown during stealth windows so it is most of your dmg there

[glass mortar]

fatebound has some specific rules around it

[civic zephyr]

I haven't played since S1-S2 of dragonflight, so this wasn't a thing i was used to back then on HO

[glass mortar]

for trickster it doesnt rlly matter

like its not higher prio then kspreeing, couping or vanishing

but its higher prio then dispatch

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel btw zac

felt like i need to coup before KS now

[glass mortar]

so u spam it during crackshots, u use it on cd over dispatch between them

[proven ocean]

is that wrong still?

[vivid vessel]

I mean if you lose ks cdrr

Probably

Coup isn't on cdr so

It's just wasted cdr

[civic zephyr]

ty

[vivid vessel]

But also idk the new things are weird so

I need to play a bit

[proven ocean]

idk about that cuz coup is op

[vivid vessel]

To get a better idea

[proven ocean]

atm

double coup u know

[vivid vessel]

Ye

I know

But you are not wastinng. Anything

Pressing ks first

Unless you waste ub

[proven ocean]

u dont waste ub?

[vivid vessel]

Depends how you play it

[heavy iron]

does anyone else think ks on ptr feels bad

[sterile seal]

Are we cooked next season ?

[royal bane]

Wdym we're cooked, we're gunning

[cinder relic]

we are so back

[frank finch]

ks is to long now , id imagine a buff to it is coming

doing piss dmg

[craggy barn]

hm

ok neat i can be boner spike again

[bright crane]

Dude watching Ross play

[craggy barn]

but i want gun man badge

[royal bane]

blizzard wants us to take breaks from the game to avoid hand problem and will be buffing ks to a healthy 30sec duration so we can take a break

[bright crane]

What’s the issue with the ks changes exactly?

Looks completely chill

[heavy iron]

low dmg and long channel

[bright crane]

Hes pumping

And who care about damage in the 2nd week of PTR

[heavy iron]

dmg aside, the long channel sucks

[pliant wind]

but but we can walk

"_"

[brave lagoon]

I'll most likely break channel way too early way too often because my hands will press all the buttons

[heavy iron]

it's like i'm play ww monk and using fists of fury

[craggy barn]

its ok

we will get PI during KS

😛

[pliant wind]

yay!

the only thing i dont like is that i could KS some targeting spells and stagger that dmg, that timing was fun

[mighty pivot]

its damage isn't necessarily low either. each extra combo point after the first (~0.4s channel) is equivalent to a 6cp dispatch. Of course dispatch benefits from a couple more talents too

[cinder relic]

Ppl seem to forget the CP gains

[fossil lintel]

tested the new ks on ptr, the cooldown feels... weird

[craggy barn]

2 finishers for ~ 2.80 seconds

[fossil lintel]

you can get 1 vanish in between them but if you try to get 2 you waste cdr

Also the clunkiness after ks is still annoying

[mighty pivot]

the CP gain still feels weird considering you are full CP halfway through if supercharged

[fossil lintel]

Yeah I just cancel at max CP

I hope they don't make us sit through that

[mighty pivot]

well

[fossil lintel]

It should get you to max cp and then just do all the remaining damage instantly and end, that would be much better and incentivize you to supercharge it

[mighty pivot]

if the final version is better to cancel halfway through then they have failed the rework

[fossil lintel]

With how long it is I'll cancel even if it's a bit behind in damage 😂

[pliant wave]

I agree

[bright crane]

@proven ocean beat by final authentication boss

[proven ocean]

everyone dc'ed

[heavy iron]

yeah

[fossil lintel]

but that would be perfect if the moment it gets you to 7 cp, it deals all the remaining damage and ends, it would actually make it good to supercharge as you would reduce the time (by always starting at 2 cp), not lose cp and do the entire damage

[bright crane]

Ross honest opinion of ks?

[brave lagoon]

I mean I kinda agree that it should at least have an incentive to keep the channel going to the end

I was about to try it for myself but apparently I chose the exact moment the ptr died

[mossy shell]

Did they take away weapon swapping 👀

[proven ocean]

feels weird when its 3 min cd

[mossy shell]

do we use a normal weapon now

[craggy barn]

on live?

[fossil lintel]

No, are you trying to swap with gally weap?

[proven ocean]

use rpg i guess

oh ye cant wep swap now

wtf

nop

[proven ocean]

why u spread false information

??

https://tenor.com/view/cat-meow-silly-cat-cat-explode-yellow-cat-gif-12654556298327310612

[craggy barn]

zeross getting misinformed so easily

[fossil lintel]

at least 20% of the messages here are people trying to swap the gally weapon and saying it doesn't work

[heavy iron]

Full cp with supercharge I did 6.6 ST, 5.18 aoe (ST had more crits)

feels weird for a 3min cd

[fossil lintel]

they doubled the cooldown with 0 changes to numbers, tuning pass will still happen

[cinder relic]

They buffed the damage did they not

[fossil lintel]

I don't remember it on the notes, let me recheck

[heavy iron]

yeah, lots of tuning will happen over the next month but right now its meh

[cinder relic]

It was undocumented

In addition it was buffed on the first patch from OG KS

its what, an extra second of duration for a full CP bar

[craggy barn]

its like 196% mh damage x 125% oh damage

[fossil lintel]

Yeah, but it was buffed but duration extended

For doubled cooldown, I don't feel this is enough

[craggy barn]

ah 157 oh

[gaunt phoenix]

perhaps the intent is to offset the potential to cancel it early or deliberately avoid supercharging it

[stuck patrol]

I guess the combopoint filling is neat, but it feels weird for a spec that already gets a overload of resources attached to a button that kind of stops you from doing your normal rotation

[fossil lintel]

My biggest issue with it right now on ptr is you KS, finish, then have to get through an unknown number of unseen blade procs, coup twice and then you can vanish

[stuck patrol]

It's better than it was but it's just weird

[gaunt phoenix]

It feels pretty normal now with 3 minute KS

[craggy barn]

cp refund is compensation for not being able to press a builder

[cinder relic]

^

[gaunt phoenix]

As much as it 'sounds bad'

[craggy barn]

does it count as a builder tho

for buff purposes

[stuck patrol]

Fait

[fossil lintel]

CDR felt fine though, never dropped AR on the dummy

[stuck patrol]

Fair*

[craggy barn]

has anyone tested that

[gaunt phoenix]

I doubt it

[cinder relic]

Trickster takes it from 3 to 2:30 right

[craggy barn]

i doubt it too

but worth checking i guess

[stuck patrol]

I thought it was just a 10% reduced CD

[gaunt phoenix]

Trickster makes it 2.7m

[stuck patrol]

Unless it was changed

[craggy barn]

like this would working with ks would be huge

[fossil lintel]

10% reduced cooldown

[mossy shell]

Yes I am

Does that not work?

[fossil lintel]

You can't swap gally weapon in dungeons

[mossy shell]

😮 why

[craggy barn]

special weapon

[mossy shell]

omg I told multiple people it wasn't working anymore LOL

ahhh

[fossil lintel]

blizz said so

[stuck patrol]

It should, would be based

[craggy barn]

some weapons are hard coded to not be swappable

[mossy shell]

I just got it in my vault today

that makes sense because of the permanent debuff it applies

now that I think about it

ok thanks

[craggy barn]

HMMMMMM

COLD BLOOD KS?

also

🤔

[gaunt phoenix]

Cold blood works

[craggy barn]

i know it works

but i mean for big dam

[gaunt phoenix]

Maaaybeee

[craggy barn]

imagine if it works with heavy hitter

tho

[gaunt phoenix]

Not sure if HO with Loaded Dice will use supercharger

[stuck patrol]

RIP

[craggy barn]

back to vigor

and lower haste req

[gaunt phoenix]

Not sure if it will use vigor either

[craggy barn]

or cb ks if thats good

[stuck patrol]

It's because we'll be using

COLD BLOOD BABY BIG NUMBERS HUGE

[gaunt phoenix]

Late into the expansion you kind of want a haste requirement to have "room to scale" with other stats

[sturdy crow]

Maybe cold blood making the whole channel crit IS a bug

[cinder relic]

I thought trickster was -30

[gaunt phoenix]

Nop

[velvet blade]

nah i dont think so

[stuck patrol]

Nope

[fossil lintel]

Okay okay, I know how to fix us having to wait for KS to end

Let us dispatch during it

[cinder relic]

No

[fossil lintel]

They already let us sprint

Then you won't waste CP from waiting it out and won't finish at high CP so you can go straight into proccing your blades

[sturdy crow]

Wasn’t that the point of the damage and cd change

So you just let it run and don’t care about extra cp

[oak furnace]

warrior had to last minute no show for raid

no parsing for me this week

[craggy barn]

sadge

[gaunt phoenix]

possibly it has enough dpet to let it finish

[random stirrup]

about to rip trickster outlaw on mugzee after playing sub/sin entire tier

surely i do not murder the raid with ks

[sturdy crow]

I can’t think of why else they would make the change

If not to discourage cancelling being correct

[fossil lintel]

It just feels bad and too long currently

[novel socket]

we can't interrupt during the new ks ?

that's weird

because someone said we can grapple during it

[fossil lintel]

Yes you can use some defensive and movement abilities

[stuck patrol]

No kicks

[gaunt phoenix]

Its a channel so yeah

[stuck patrol]

Blizzard please

[craggy barn]

ofc u cant interrupt during it, u interrupt urself

[stuck patrol]

Oh yeah, it's a channel I forgor

[sturdy crow]

I feel good if I’m blasting 😎

[gaunt phoenix]

I dont forsee it being an issue really

[novel socket]

i dont understand why they keep adding channel abilities to melees

[craggy barn]

its just like old ka

ks

[novel socket]

nobody plays melees to sit in the same place channeling

[craggy barn]

just longer u cant int

[novel socket]

we want to zug zug

[rapid spoke]

did they ruin ks again

[stuck patrol]

Also can anyone edit my roles?
My role is stuck on an old role for some reason (fatebound sin) and I can't get rid of it

[craggy barn]

birb

[gaunt phoenix]

You can prob cancel every 10th KS with kick and lose 0% dps

[craggy barn]

warrios love to blade storm

[stuck patrol]

And somehow I gave myself a new member role trying to figure it out LOL

[novel socket]

you can interrupt during bladestorm

[craggy barn]

can u?

oh yea its not a real channel

[novel socket]

it is but they specifically made it able to interrupt during it

[craggy barn]

ks should mass interrupt

[novel socket]

true

we shoot everyone

why can they cast spells

[craggy barn]

like how bte used to stun

[novel socket]

it used to do what

[cinder relic]

The point of the CD change was that It just happened to much

[craggy barn]

og BTE stunned

[novel socket]

makes sense i guess

[sturdy crow]

Getting gunshot to the head should stop a spell caster

[novel socket]

you shoot someone between the eyes

[craggy barn]

they removed kidney

[novel socket]

they should be stunned

[craggy barn]

for outlaw

[novel socket]

or executed

both work

[craggy barn]

and made bte our kidney

[stuck patrol]

Well I hope they up unseen blade procs in compensation

[novel socket]

pirates were savages and never showed mercy in battle

therefor

outlaw should get some sort of execute dmg

to be more accurate with the pirate theme

all dmg increased by 15% when target is below 30% hp

[craggy barn]

coup not being an execute of sorts was a missed opportunity

[stuck patrol]

My warlock friend used to be pissed at me for creating stun dr
And I was like
Do you want me to not do damage then or??

[sturdy crow]

It’s been the case since DF though. They only change it now that it’s an interruptible channel?

[cinder relic]

In an ideal world KS would have been changed years ago

[sturdy crow]

Yeah.

[fossil lintel]

in an ideal world KS wouldn't have ever existed

[sturdy crow]

Deducing dev motives only works if there was an end goal in the first place.

[stuck patrol]

Nah, it was a good ability back in the day

Part of me will miss it

[mighty pivot]

back when was it good?

because it had issues since its inception

[stuck patrol]

Yes, but there were less mechanics that would make it an issue

And I believe at one point it made you full immune to damage during it iirc

[brave lagoon]

Ks immunity

[mighty pivot]

ok because depending on how far back you go, it would teleport you to your death on some bosses

[novel timber]

this me made actually lol

[heavy iron]

I think ks needs something like a dmg buff that you get based on number of shots fired.

[stuck patrol]

True yeah, but I feel like it was the exception rather than the norm

[stuck patrol]

That's called combo points

(kidding, I know what you mean)

[heavy iron]

secret bliz dev

[stuck patrol]

I wish. I'd get rid of UHUH

[fathom whale]

what belt thing we using since the one got nerfed

[stuck patrol]

Pins

[fathom whale]

facts facts

[scarlet drum]

How do we all feel about new killing spree on the PTR being updated to a 3 minute cool down and only striking enemies in front of you?

[stuck patrol]

Ehh.

It's a nerf but it's fine

[sturdy crow]

I had the idea of setting the turn speed to max and spinning while channeling for reaper ult at home

[scarlet drum]

Hell yeah.

[sturdy crow]

But after the change probably better to roll for daggers and play assa

[scarlet drum]

Let me dual wield guns like Reaper's hellfire shotguns please.

[fathom whale]

what myth track dung trink should i buy over myt 671 junk magnet

[wintry solar]

Corny mfer

[mighty pivot]

#outlaw message

but also

https://tenor.com/view/sim-simyoself-gif-20048910

[fathom whale]

bruv sim dont mean nuthin, im all about that community engagement

[sturdy crow]

Miss fortune ult > reaper ult?

[mighty pivot]

use the pirate bro trinket from delves in that case

[fathom whale]

tbh i was expecting it to look like reaper ult too

[fathom whale]

TRUEEE

[daring yoke]

havent played in a bit. can anyone remind me why is this? new ptr pin:

Does let you start holding Vanish more for other things like Double Coup instead of constantly watching KS cooldown

we hold vanish for coup?

[daring oxide]

I think the change to 3mins CD is a good move, considering the current channel time.
Focusing the damage to be directly infront of you in a cone will allow more precision of who you want to hit primarily which is a welcome improvement too.

I think the slight damage increase is in the right direction but I wonder if it needs a bit more extra damage to make it truly worth supercharging it or not cancelling early.

If the duration of KS is to remain the same, is it possible to add KS to UHUH talent so that it will freeze the duration of AR while you are in KS, so therefore we don't have add a new gameplay consideration into either delaying or cancelling KS early if ADR would drop off during the channel, especially if its Supercharged for 10cp (5 seconds no haste), which is basically 25% of ADR duration.

Double Coup tier set is pretty cool, but feels a little strange at the moment as it has a 5 second window, rather than before with double coup bug we had to do it back to back GCDs.
I think it'll be better to make it so that Escalating Blade stacks are consumed immediately when pressing the 1st coup, and having the 2nd coup independent from that as a separate buff from the main Escalating Blades (e.g. a separate tier set buff - free coup usage). That way it won't feel rough building towards the 2nd coup (we can go ahead and press SS freely to use Unseen blades with no consequences of wasting them).
Or to make it easier, add an extra feature to the 4p to make the 1st Coup refund your CPs to max so you can press the 2nd coup instantly at finisher CP right after too!

[cinder relic]

Its so funny outlaw gets one of the best changes to one of the most iconic ability in years and its like

"Yep reroll"

Its also cycle 2 of ptr

"Yep reroll"

[daring oxide]

I really love the new KS

its fantastic

[wintry solar]

You think the average wow player puts more than 3 seconds of thought into their decisions?

[stuck patrol]

I'd prefer getting rid of UHUH please, I'm sick of that talent.
But if UHUH is here to stay then your idea sounds good yeah.

[low gazelle]

It seems pretty here to stay….

[daring oxide]

i think UHUH will be here to stay for this tier with the current design for outlaw, unless some significant tuning happens to push the non UHUH builds to be competitive or better

[wintry solar]

...

... guys...

I think it's here to stay...

[daring oxide]

but maybe next expansion outlaw may get a proper rework to address the need for WAs to play effectively

[stuck patrol]

Well yeah it's definitely staying this tier

[daring oxide]

But its more that I'm just trying to give realz some feedback and thoughts on today's improvements for KS

new KS is super fucking good

but the double coup feels a bit sticky

[stuck patrol]

But if they get rid of WAs and keep UHUH in the game I'm probably going to reroll lmao

[daring oxide]

when double coup was a bug we just pressed it back to back, which felt fine because we had to

[low gazelle]

I can’t see a change that would make that possible outside of removing roll the bones. That alone is more buffs than most classes have to deal with

[stuck patrol]

I like double coup personally but I see what you mean

[daring oxide]

but now that its a tierset with 5 seconds timer, it would be nice to be able to build between coups freely, without wasting unseen blades

[proper veldt]

I think it would’ve been cool to get something related to an execute tho. Kinda would fit with the idea of a “killing” spree

[daring oxide]

well yup, it'll require a rework (so a lot of changes to overhaul stuff)

[proper veldt]

From an rpg perspective at least

[stuck patrol]

??? Outlaw with RTB has existed without UHUH for many expansions

[daring oxide]

If Killing Spree hit about 50% harder, and if targets die during the channel, it recasts again

[stuck patrol]

Oh I think I misunderstood you nvm

[proper veldt]

💀

Perma killing spree

[daring oxide]

ya

[low gazelle]

Didn’t say anything about UHUH. I said we will need WA even without UHUH. There are so many buffs even without it

[daring oxide]

probably worth if it felt like a banger finisher

[daring oxide]

theres just a lot to track and so much information isn't displayed clearly

such as unseen blades

is a good example

[stuck patrol]

Yeah I misread. Yeah I'm not sure what they are going to do. I hope they just make their upcoming CD tracker more customizable and able to track class buffs

[daring oxide]

we have no idea where they are hence the name unseen blades

so to play around them requires that tracker WA

[civic zephyr]

is miniature roulette wheel better than a crafted earthen ring for 2nd slot? (Currently running two crafted earthen rings) i simmed it and its a 0.5% dps loss, but wanted to know if maybe the luck had a hidden effect

[daring oxide]

Well thats mostly why we need WAs right, because the base Blizzard UI isn't good enough or accessible enough to show us all the information clearly that we need to know to play Outlaw, so its a UI design flaw, or perhaps a gameplay flaw that it requires so much information tracking to begin with

[civic zephyr]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[gaunt phoenix]

The luck doesnt do anything for dps unfortunately

[civic zephyr]

mine also rolled 5k+ verse

[sturdy crow]

I just wanted to SPIN

[stuck patrol]

Sim it.

The luck effect just makes it so if your class has an extra flip jump animation (night elves, blood elves, Vulpera etc) you do a flip every time you jump

[daring yoke]

man i wish while using KS, AR duration is paused

[civic zephyr]

I did sim it against my current rings and it was a 0.5% dps loss

[daring oxide]

@gaunt phoenix

Fixed an issue where talents that modified your chance for a flip to match the previous flip weren’t always working as intended. This fix should be an overall damage increase.

I wasn't aware of this bug, which talents was it referring to?

[frank finch]

does fb crank even more now after fixes on ptr

[stuck patrol]

Then it ain't worth

[stuck patrol]

Basically all of them afaik

Every one that effected coin flip chance

[daring oxide]

apparently so, if we've been playing with bugged fatebound this whole time, that kinda makes sense why it was so hard to hit lucky coin sometimes

i would go through entire 4-5min fights without hitting Lucky coin at all

like 50% of the pulls

[stuck patrol]

Yeah it's cringe

[daring oxide]

it always felt like those extra chance flips stuff just didn't work

but theres no real way of knowing or being able to 'see' the bug

[stuck patrol]

Looks like you really can't change fate

[daring oxide]

sprocket this tier was just horrible

[stuck patrol]

...or can you???

[daring oxide]

since that fight we were forced to play FB

[stuck patrol]

Facts

[daring oxide]

for some reason on sprocket

lucky coin either proced at the start

or 3-4mins into the fight

was diabolical

[gaunt phoenix]

me neither, probably like destiny defined

[stuck patrol]

The way outlaw works it's basically you get lucky coin at the beginning or not at all

[daring oxide]

hopefully these fixes will make fatebound more consistent at getting lucky coin?

without the help from the new tier set

[stuck patrol]

Unless lucky

[daring oxide]

at least

I wonder if we'll get some kind of visual cone

for the new KS frontal interaction

would be nice to help 'aim'

[proven ocean]

@daring oxide yo

idk if ur there

but

outlaw in terms of rtb feels super bad in ptr atm

like

i think the old tier set or s3 DF tier set needs to be baseline

cuz this is legit unplayably bad

lmao

took me abit to fully realize this but rtb feels rly dogshit

[civic zephyr]

hey i suck at outlaw and need help. So unseen blade i think is probably what ive ignored sio far cause like i said i suck... ive been prioritizing BTE crackshot windows.. so in a dungeon on first pull for example, out of stealth ill spam my BTE, SS, PS until the window ends, then i vanish and do it again, and vanish and do it again, the whole time not using killing spree... this is wrong, right?

[brave lagoon]

losing the easy 5buffs kinda bad yeah but idk

[random stirrup]

yea not good with trickster

use subterfuge -> killing spree first finisher once it ends -> build with ss prio, force coup if its close -> vanish

generally trickster loop is vanish ks coup vanish

[civic zephyr]

vanish and bte spam, then killing spree, coup, then vanish to use BTE to use the faze buff damage

ok, i think i understand

thank you!

hopefully i see a noticable change in damage with unseen blade because my damage is dog

posted this earlier - 13 rook 674 ilvl overall

kir

[covert kestrel]

likely its not unseen blade thats messing up your damage but more general rotational mistakes. outlaw is fast paced and knowing what to press in a short period of time does not immediately come to you. also if youre still learning the spec, ho is easier to pilot and get the hang of

[brave lagoon]

KiR is generally less forgiving of mistakes as well

[light patio]

anyone play fatebound on mythic mugzee?

[civic zephyr]

ahh i wish i knew what those rotational mistakes wereee

[light patio]

im scared of KS w/ mines lol

[brave lagoon]

I've pretty much never bothered tracking unseen blades and I can still pump keys a decent bit

[random stirrup]

you will just have a lot more cdr and crackshot damage playing around coup/ks properly since more coups and more flawless form for crackshot windows

[covert kestrel]

#outlaw-faq is your bible

[covert kestrel]

typical ho user

[brave lagoon]

[civic zephyr]

yeah i just went over the whole advanced section for KIR. i def put off using coup and unseen blade and killing spree, so im thinking that was the issue, everything else seemed fine

[light patio]

for ST on mugzee

normal trickster raid build vs, kir trickster, vs fatebound

i almost just wanna play FB to not hit mines w/ KS

[random stirrup]

fatebound will be much worse on mugzee

than the sim indicates

[light patio]

why do u say that

[random stirrup]

fate intertwined is going to make you lose damage because of mines/shockers nearby

delivered doom is going to make you lose damage because of the same reason

then again holding ks is also gonna int you but

[light patio]

holding ks feels terrible

i feel like its worth the trade off? idk

there are a decent amount of FB kills on m mugzee

doing comparable dmg

and my raid doesnt have a damage issue, we have a staying alive issue

[random stirrup]

send fatebound then

[brave lagoon]

using ks on zee always ends up on the exact moment your character randomly teleports in front of the boss right at the perfect frame for it to get hit by* the tank frontal

[light patio]

or just teleports you on top of every single mine available

[brave lagoon]

it's free real estate

[civic zephyr]

@random stirrup also when should i weapon swap? say fdirst boss of TOP, do i use nightfall cudgel or mythic crowd favorite?

like is there a mob count to give me an idea when to swap? like 5 or more mobs good for aoe weapon? or 2 or mobs?

[sudden fulcrum]

pretty sure it's just cudgel on trash and whatever else on boss

[civic zephyr]

yeah but there like 4 mobs in first boss of TOP

[rapid mica]

Yeah, Cudgel doesn't reset on bosses, though it does trigger from new adds spawning

[random stirrup]

bosses brick the reset ability of cudgel usually im pretty sure

[civic zephyr]

oh ok

[random stirrup]

so if you're pulling the staghorn in its technically one mob for cudgel purposes

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel so, what i feel rn is that rtb situation of outlaw in ptr is quite bad, killingspree generating combo points is too much i think theres heavy combo points bloat in outlaw and FTH needs to have double duration as its expiring constantly, Killingspree is quite too long i think, needs to be as long as it used to be

i think FTH expiring is a bigger issue with current PTR outlaw, its quite noticeable in many situations

with double coup and longer KS, you get the oh shit i cant press SS kind of feeling, so u end up losing FTH

i think ace talent is not outdated but doesn't have good synergy imo

most of these issues are trickster related, i think the hero talent deserves a rework but that'll only happen in next expansion "if" they do that

generally i think outlaw is downgraded from season 2 to season 3 outlaw

i think season 2 is alot more fun to play with, this version idk feels weird im sure you'll know what i mean

[vapid sundial]

Subject to change via feedback

I'd suggest compiling it all cleaner for reals maybe bc you semi word saladed that

And it's a lot

(we both ramble and yap it's OK)

[proven ocean]

ye i can fix the yap ofc but idk do i ping realz or what

because i dont want to ping realz rn

i want zac's thoughts too

we can combine both thoughts together and shoot a ping perhaps

[vapid sundial]

Yeah

Might be good

[proven ocean]

KS not killing us anymore is great tho

huge +

[civic zephyr]

@covert kestrel @random stirrup 10 TOP, does this look right-ish? can you tell off details even? lol

[vapid sundial]

Yeah

10s are hard to tell anything off of

Bc shit dies Fast

Logs are easier for people

[civic zephyr]

ooo damn, ok ill look into logging, ty

[random stirrup]

what does ar uptime look like

[civic zephyr]

does details tell me that?

[random stirrup]

under auras

[proven ocean]

ww does look balanced though

10m overall in a rly bad overall dungeon

[fossil lintel]

is that on the ptr?

[proven ocean]

yea

[fossil lintel]

sheesh

[random stirrup]

not bad, ideally over 90

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel oh btw another thing i wanna add, AR is same uptime on PTR as live, i think the main issue is RTB, feels bad to play outlaw atm

[fossil lintel]

are you on kir?

[proven ocean]

yea

ngl if they bring ER back outlaw will be so amazing

[civic zephyr]

ok will work on that, im staring at my weakaura too hard got myself killed on chain boss lol

[proven ocean]

i loved ER so much

i think ER will make outlaw rly fun to play rn

i think

[civic zephyr]

what is ER?

[proven ocean]

i think outlaw deserves to have a talent competing with this node, sinister strike generates 2 more combo points and has a higher chance to strike twice

[proven ocean]

Echoing reprimand

old ability

[fossil lintel]

ER was awesome

[civic zephyr]

oh yeah forgot that existed lol

[lone spear]

aint no way the ER revisonisim is happening already its been a patch

was legit button bloat

[torpid fiber]

nahhhh

er rocked

[lone spear]

yall delulu

[torpid fiber]

that shit was so fun

[lone spear]

if ur talking SL ER maybe idk

[nova sinew]

Is new killing spree just fury of eagletalon?

[lone spear]

but dragonflight and beyond, it was a press on CD bedge spell

[torpid fiber]

yeah u pressed it on cd as well in SL

but it changed gameplay in a way that i enjoyed

[lone spear]

ye i didnt play outlaw in SL so ill take ur word for it

[fossil lintel]

idk I always enjoyed ER builds

kyrian dust

[midnight granite]

SICK BELT GUSY

[lime lake]

real

[vague cape]

outlaw trinkets complete

[latent panther]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[sullen walrus]

18.53 it's low haste?

kir build

[tender wedge]

maybe a tiny bit, but not enough to be disasterous

[proven ocean]

dead while being dead

interesting one

[sudden fulcrum]

you're cooked

[sullen walrus]

what's your thoughts about outlaw in 11.2?

[weary cargo]

3min KS rip 👎

[pliant wave]

Guys, what do you think if return talent Dreadblade?

[vague cape]

would be cool but I don't think they want to add buttons to outlaw

[torpid fiber]

what would even be the point we get to max cp so fast anyways

[sullen walrus]

but idk, outlaw is good in 11.2 or bad in kir build?

[proven ocean]

#outlaw message

[lofty pike]

What are we thinking about the CD Change to killingspree?

[fossil lintel]

I haven't tried an entire dungeon but trying on dummies with kir the rtb buffs were pretty okay

Swapped to loaded dice, would get up to 4 buffs due to CTO pretty often, and then a good chance at 5 or 6 once I rolled again

Definitely not as good as current, but didn't feel bad. The trickster tier set gives a ton of CDR

Haven't tested much today with the KS change though

[lofty pike]

Yeah, getting the CB Back and Double coup should make Up a little bit for it

[vague cape]

can we have this tierset

as a talent

would love to have it

[lofty pike]

We Had it AS a Bug 😄

[fossil lintel]

Let's do it one better: can we get this tier set as a bug? =D

Just dont fix it this time

[sullen walrus]

but i think outlaw will be do worth damage, for real

[past sphinx]

you think so?

[sullen walrus]

11.2 outlaw wii be not as good as current

we need zacs thoughts about it

[fossil lintel]

The things I want resolved are:

• KS lasting past when you get to max CP feels terrible and is just too long
• having to spend UB procs after KS with a finisher in the middle feels terrible. not knowing how many you have either due to untrackable and 2p makes it significantly worse

Or just buff fatebound a bunch and give it infinite tricks as well

[vague cape]

hard to buff fatebound aoe without breaking its st with current iteration of it

they'd have to redesign or reword its talents

[somber ridge]

what's the first impression with the outlaw tier set? I'm considering playing it next season but I dont quite understand what the trickster tier even means. Ignoring numbers, it seems like a "equip it and forget it" kinda deal, but as I said I dont play outlaw yet so

[peak dock]

Dunno but ks got cd modified to 3 mins

[proven ocean]

Yea

Its bad but whatever

Killingspree being too long is cringe too

On top of coup having to be pressed twice is also cringe af

Why not increase coup effectiveness by 100% and call it a day

[delicate seal]

they're having a proper chuckle at us

[proven ocean]

Too many combo points bloat

Too many ramping and losing fth stacks etc

Gameplay isnt clean at all

[vapid sundial]

Cuz fuck u specifically

Ross

[frail veldt]

wait is this a thing?

could be a good thing tbh

I mean on the surface its a nerf

but new patch always means a rebalance

and if I have to press KS less often im happy

though it could disrupt the flow of vanish -> ks -> coup -> repeat

wym

[fathom bramble]

I really feel like the goal should be to make pressing KS feel good

instead of just doubling the cd

[frail veldt]

Yeah that would def be great

I think they really want to have a button that pauses/slows down the rotation

at least it feels like theyre committed to it

[proven ocean]

Need to remove the big cp bloat

[weary cargo]

But u cant keep fazed on enemies and lower flawless forms with longer ks cd

[proven ocean]

Too many cp’s in outalw rn

Fth expiring etc

[frail veldt]

yeah that part is gona suck

[frail veldt]

hate when this happens

[proven ocean]

And thats with 1 fth talent

[frail veldt]

feels like its only a 1fth

yeah

[proven ocean]

Happens more in ptr

[frail veldt]

or just a trickster thing idk

[proven ocean]

Enjoy that

[proven ocean]

It is yes

And its gonna be way worse now

[frail veldt]

whys that

just cuz of new tier?

[proven ocean]

Play it and you’ll see what i mean

Yea

I go sleep now tho gn

[loud hazel]

hey gays, question

[frail veldt]

gn

[frail veldt]

excuse me

[loud hazel]

killing spree still cleans roots?

[frail veldt]

most roots

[loud hazel]

i mean

the reworked one

11.2

[frail veldt]

oh idk

[loud hazel]

fk

[fathom bramble]

they removed a ton of effects from KS so I kind of assumed it was gone

but haven't actually checked

[loud hazel]

who was the dev that dit it

[fathom bramble]

idk it's probably gone

[loud hazel]

he deserves death

[fathom bramble]

the effect that I thought was responsible for it is gone in the spelldata

[weary cargo]

thats nerf AF idk .. they didnt understand outlaw dmg profile probably

[frail veldt]

wat

the root break isnt really relevant in pve

its nice

but its hardly anything

[weary cargo]

3 min KS mean 50% less uptime on fazed targets in pack each mob u loss 5% of BF dmg something like that?

[frail veldt]

in pvp though KS breaking root was very op

[frail veldt]

bf isnt on fazed whitelist

oh wait did they fix that

[fathom bramble]

yes

[frail veldt]

I recall they might have actually

okay noice

[frail veldt]

also this isnt how the math works

for example

adr which is a 3 min cd

has an effective cd of like 35-40 seconds

vanish which is 2 min

[weary cargo]

ye i know with double coup will be different

[frail veldt]

has like 25-30

has nothing to do with double coop

just our cdr in general

cds arent linear as outlaw

[tulip quarry]

Nimble flurry is triggered by flawless form , not from fazed , and with double coup set, it might stay arroud the same

[frail veldt]

and most of the time right now KS comes off cd during vanish

even if you follow the 30s cd on KS rule

we very well might be moving that rule to be something like if KS cd < vanish CD then we hold vanish for KS

and we might end up KSing only like 15-20% less often

[fathom bramble]

doubling the cooldown still doubles it

[weary cargo]

ok ok, but still i got worries about outlaw S3

[fathom bramble]

it doesn't add 1:30 to the CD obviously, but if you double the number of effective seconds you need to recover to get a spell back it will still take twice as many seconds

whether those are real seconds or ones granted to you by restless blades

other factors might reduce it a bit below double, but I wouldn't expect it to end up in the 15-20% effective CD increase area

[weary cargo]

acc this ... KS 3 min CD is outlaw nerf i think

[fathom bramble]

in a vacuum yeah

doubling the CD on a spell tends to make it worse

[vale panther]

Can someone look at my secondary stats and tell me if I should be focusing more on vers or on Crit? I think my haste is good but I might be a bit too high.

[fathom bramble]

almost all of the strength of KS is in triggering things in the trickster tree

triggering them all half as often is certainly going to make it worse, but I believe that more changes will come

and that the quick easy gameplay change is just coming down before spell/hero talent tuning

[vale panther]

oh and I went the hidden opportunity route

in trickster. if that helps

[thorn osprey]

is Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel still bis in mplus ?

[frail veldt]

yeah ofc a nerf to overall dps but those types of nerfs between large patches are less to worry about

since theres so many balance waves that come during development

and imo KS 3 min cd is likely a gameplay buff

[thorn osprey]

@vale panther rogues uses Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel in aoe i think

[frail veldt]

so after all the tuning passes, we may very well be better off

[thorn osprey]

unless it got nerfed

[vale panther]

those weps and trinks are the bis for M+ apparently

[weary cargo]

i think they are done with tunning outlaw 😄 cause they spit on this spec 😄 we got KS rework, thats it for next 2 expasions 😄 😄 😄

[thorn osprey]

you swap weapons for mplus

[frail veldt]

ofc they arent

they retune every major patch

always

they have to

since they release new tier, and do other mini rework stuff

and cuz not all specs scale with stats the same way

and due to changing power of trinkets/cantrip weapons between patches

[vale panther]

I would still love it if someone took a look at my secondary stats and let me know if I am screwing up

[sage lion]

Sim yourself

[frail veldt]

what are your stats at

[fathom bramble]

an interesting side note is that if they choose to focus the buffs on KS instead of trickster it might actually push us back towards fatebound

[frail veldt]

the only thing you can screw up is haste

[fathom bramble]

and make you run KS in either tree

[frail veldt]

hit the haste tax

[vale panther]

haste tax?

[frail veldt]

then after that its simply vers>crit>>>mastery>>>>>>>>>>>>haste

[frail veldt]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[frail veldt]

essentially haste is our best stat up until the tax

then it quickly becomes our worst stat

we call it a tax because blizzard essentially removed the gcd reduction from adr baseline and made it require X amount of haste to hit the gcd cap

[vale panther]

oh is that why they recommend 8-10% haste unbuffed for Hidden opportunity?

[frail veldt]

8-10% was the old requirement when HO ran vigor

[vale panther]

damn

[frail veldt]

but now that HO runs supercharger as well, they want more haste for the energy regen

[vale panther]

so what is our new cap at?

[frail veldt]

so HO will be around 14-16% if you arent running ghostly strike and around 19% if you are

HO non GS 14-16% haste
HO with GS ~19% haste
KiR all variants ~19% haste

[vale panther]

well this is what my stats are riight now

[frail veldt]

haste is fine

well what build are you running

but your vers is very low

[frail veldt]

okay yeah your haste is correct then

If you can reallocate some of your crit/mastery to vers without losing ilvl or haste then that would be ideal

[vale panther]

ok. so keep Haste the same but start pumping Vers?

[frail veldt]

yep

[vale panther]

ok. Thanks dude

[frail veldt]

and HO likes crit a decent amount too tbh

mastery is beans though

so drop that if you can

[vale panther]

ok so drop mastery. devote to vers without affecting Haste. Awesome. you rock man

[frail veldt]

yw

[naive river]

Was rogue slapping to hard on the ptr or was this just a meh THREE MINUTES TO KILLING SPREE

[vivid vessel]

That's only because you are forced to ss to proc ub

[frail veldt]

Honestly 1pt fth doesnt feel like too many cps

[vivid vessel]

I cannot agree with you

[frail veldt]

ESP in st

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[frail veldt]

if anythig it feels like not enough energy

[vivid vessel]

It'd almost not enough cp gen

Yep

[frail veldt]

but in aoe deft just goes too ham

[vivid vessel]

I will agree tho that trickster is weird

[frail veldt]

so you get a weird dichotomy

[vivid vessel]

Where it forces you to ss

[frail veldt]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

When you don't want you

[frail veldt]

it does feel weird but its also a satisfying rotation

to play around UB stacks

[vivid vessel]

On ptr it's different tho

[frail veldt]

felt awful at first

oh yeah I havent messed with that yet

[vivid vessel]

Cause you just shit them from nothing

[frail veldt]

I hate porting over my was

[vivid vessel]

Since it reset

[frail veldt]

oh what

[vivid vessel]

So you don't even know

[frail veldt]

do they reset more often now from autos?

[naive river]

The set 30% chance on proc to reset

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[frail veldt]

WTF?

thats awk af

and leme guess

you cant fucking track it still

[civic zephyr]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[vivid vessel]

Nope

It would work if SS was our only builder

Like it is for sub

I mean it feels designed for sub

So

[frail veldt]

for sure

100p

[vivid vessel]

That's kinda expected

But ye

[naive river]

Ambush and pistol shot should proc it

Does ambush?

[frail veldt]

yeah

ps doesnt

[naive river]

Can you imagine a 3 shot them all resetting

[vivid vessel]

Ye I mean ps should

[naive river]

Just make it so it can only proc off the pistol shot if you have the pistol shot proc up

Fan the hammer

[vivid vessel]

Idk

Thing is

These talents are still half backed

We are still waiting on a second iteration

For hero talents

And it's not coming

So

[naive river]

Yea I feel like they forgot rogue

[raw cliff]

im just now getting my magnet, how do i use it? press on cd or stack iit to max?

any funny interactions to know about

[naive river]

Last to get a look at our talents then they have t been touched

[random stirrup]

Sub has no way to avoid wasting unseen blades between coups

It’s a bit cooked for both

[lone spear]

you can send on whatever stacks, but make sure to not let it sit capped for long

often this happens if you dont check stacks and use a different on use first

then you can cap on magnet but cant use because of double on-use cd

[hallow spoke]

Do we know the % chance autos have to reset UB through thousand cuts

[raw cliff]

ty

[raw cliff]

its a ttrinket youll want binded and not macro'ed to bte correct?

cause that all ive been doing with vexies

[lone spear]

if you're using double on-use, i would for sure bind it, and to keep it simple just use it again if your other trinket has >20 seconds cd

[raw cliff]

nah im using myth lock and stock with it

sims best for me

[lone spear]

in that case it's probably fine to have it macro'd into BtE

[raw cliff]

okie doke ty

[vivid vessel]

I guess

But it's way worse for outlaw

We can't just

Not use our normal buttons

like the entire trickster thing clash with outlaw

and i dont think ks needed to be a builder

when we have so many builders

we already cant use wehn playing trickster

cause ub fforces us to press ss on cd

[random stirrup]

the whole unseen blade thing needs redesigning imo

[pliant wave]

Why is the cooldown of Killing Spree 2.7 minutes on the PTR instead of 3 minutes? Does anyone know?

[normal forge]

as long as ks is not a must talent to play a rogue, im ok, otherwise, it will kill the spec

[vale warren]

Reduced by 10% by trickster

[pliant wave]

Oh, I didn’t know it had that kind of effect.

[random stirrup]

escalating needs to stack beyond 4, thousand cuts needs to just add a proc rather than reset the icd, the procs themselves need to be trackable, disorienting being granted out of combat (at least for sub this is quite annoying in raid), coup requiring fazed for whatever reason

[hallow spoke]

I'll ask again, do we know thousand cuts auto chacne %

[tribal swan]

Do we go for 2x duskthread or lens now?

[random stirrup]

its a 4.5ppm, probably hasted

not a %

[hallow spoke]

ty

and the killing spree 2 that ignore cd, the aplication doesn't reset the cd to 20 after right?

[random stirrup]

as far as i know no

thousand cuts does reset the 20s timer, disorienting doesnt

I could be wrong

[vivid vessel]

ks should legit just give 2 escalating blades

why is ub even a thing honestly ?

ks gives 2 eb, ss can proc some eb from time to time

eb stacks above 4

thats how i would fix

maybe fth also can proc eb

[hallow spoke]

if it stacks above 4, would u then play around double coups

[vivid vessel]

as in consume ub

[lone spear]

yea, whats weird is havoc has protection against overstacking with aldrachi reavers glaive

i guess ours is like a skill thing, but also one that requires a WA to track because of an invis aura, and also cant track properly because of all the resets

[vivid vessel]

and enhance

which is my point

[thorn osprey]

should i have adrenaline rush 100 % uptime when hitting a dummy ?

[vivid vessel]

90+

[thorn osprey]

im consistantly having 80-85

something im doing completely wrong

[lone spear]

its possible bad rng

more likely if its constant than your haste could be too low for the build, you could not be rolling agressively enough, or yea you arent being combo point efficent, especially in crackshot

[vapid blaze]

they could just make eb stack more
and actually give us a debuff to track

instead of cringe weakauras

[vivid vessel]

that doesnt exacly solve the issue tho

[frank finch]

rate my take

[vivid vessel]

issue being im supposed to be pressing ss only basically

when we have 10 diff builders

[frank finch]

fb feels better then trickster on ptr atm

[vivid vessel]

not a bad take

but maintaining fb coin between packs is horrible

and fb damage profile is horrrible

and it doesnt have perma tricks

[frank finch]

[hollow kayak]

Counterpoint: 4x grappling hooks

[dim widget]

even with 2xhook we already have to wait for the rest of the group

so whats the point of 4

[mighty pivot]

UB does a non-trivial part of our single target damage. They would have to move that damage elsewhere if it wasn't a thing

[bright lodge]

To wait 2 times longer

[vivid vessel]

ks trigger 2 ub

you can delete the part of ub wheer its a buff and needs to be consumed

you know

[mighty pivot]

I mean they could do that yeah

[hollow kayak]

My runback when I forget to press defensives is SO fast :^)

[gritty hamlet]

So next season not even being able to guarantee a lucky coin on every pack if you save Adrenaline Rush is gonna be enough to make Fatebound work?

[dim widget]

woldnt have died in the first place on trickster

[vivid vessel]

• ks triggers 2 ub (they auto consume tho)
• ss/ps has a chacne to proc ub
• eb stacks forever

wouldnt that

just fix

trickster

completly ???

like the actual ub gameplay wouldnt exist anymore

you would have a chance to reset ub timer

you would just proc and consume ub

[dim widget]

yes pls

fuck ub minigame

[vivid vessel]

instead of all this bullshit

[mighty pivot]

does EB even have to stack forever? Wouldn't max 8 stacks be sufficient already?

[vivid vessel]

ye 8 whatever

just throwing random number

[mighty pivot]

but yes the current designs blocking you from generating more EB when coup is ready is very limiting for no reason. Unless the reason is how they implemented it internally

and with 8 max stacks it wouldn't even be necessary for PS (or specifically FtH'd PS) to proc UB, especially if KS immediately triggered its 2 UBs

[bright lodge]

So you say that they stack complexity on rogues for the sake of complexity itself?

[mighty pivot]

I doubt it's intentional, it seems like a misfire in how they designed some things

the irony is that some questionable choices they made could be remedied even with some number changes. The whole EB situations by changing the max stacks, and even the lucky coin issue with the timer by just extending the timer to like 20s instead of 10s. Not that lucky coin's timer is enough to make FB workable in keys with its mediocre cleave

[bright lodge]

When rogues was in a good spot last time? After squishing in SL?

[stiff glade]

They could also let coup be consumed in crackshot as well, but make the dispatch be 100% power and not a longer GCD if consumed like that. It would be a bit weird, but that would keep us from having to consume coup before we can enter stealth. Might be too automatic though, cause we would probably just not think about coup anymore at that point

[bright lodge]

I forgor about assa. Assa is in a good spot rn isn’t it?

[vivid vessel]

i mean, especially with new tier

you still have too much ub

that you can ever spend

like in aoe when do you even spend

you have fth bf ks adr ace

and im supposed to ss at least twice per ks

then legit 3 times more

cause of 2p

prolly more

its impossible

even on live its annnoying

and i perma overcap fth

or build at max cp

or idk

do weird shit

all the times

[mighty pivot]

isn't 2p still an invisible event? You cannot know when the cd reset fires

[vivid vessel]

yeee

idk maybe there is an event i didnt check

still tho

its no good

make the whole thing worse

[upbeat tundra]

the part where you afk during ks is more noticible now that your attention to it isnt distracted by the fact your screen is flickering repeatedly, and it feels bad

[vivid vessel]

i mean it also is way longer

[upbeat tundra]

that too

[vivid vessel]

on live half my ks i send at low cp also

jsut for safety

lol

[mighty pivot]

you know what's funny about the UB cd resets? Warriors have had shield slam resets for like 15 years now and they have had an event fire each time they get a reset just to glow the SS button. Why didn't they do something with UB is beyond me, unless their intention was to just consider the entire tree a passive thing

[vivid vessel]

my way makes it passive aswell tho

except good passive

[upbeat tundra]

every time i hit ks on the ptr i feel the same way when i have to hide behind kujo box

[vivid vessel]

current way is like

passive but you have to track and its not passive

and you cant track

basically at least 25% of my ks are at low cps

on live rn

[mighty pivot]

yeah I don't expect them to touch anything but KS, tier, and bugs but let's see

[gritty hamlet]

Soridormi is the worst healer of all time, like omg haha.

[grand hatch]

am i wrong or does outlaw not use ambush? 😄 saw so many logs without any cast

[mighty pivot]

KIR doesn't ambush, HO does

[flat needle]

How do you guys play Candle King? I cant find a window to KS

[mighty pivot]

the only truly safe time is when the statues melt. But that means holding it a bit

[vivid vessel]

thats in flood also, not even worse ks key

also i died from ks this key

[bright lodge]

I wonder if enough complaints on ptr feedback would be enough to let them know and start reworking stuff, for 11.2.x<=5 at least?

[mighty pivot]

there are like 50 outlaw players and some have... very spicy ideas. What would be "enough"?

a guy unironically asked for the teleport back

[bright lodge]

I don’t know 150 outlaw players or how many mages are there?

[mighty pivot]

if you use the # of parses as an indication there are more arcane mage players than there are all 3 rogue specs combined and that applies to both raids and dungeons

[cinder relic]

I can't get over the new icon

[upbeat tundra]

last thing you see at school in NA

[vivid vessel]

[vivid vessel]

oh

its actually the mog from this tier no ?

that head

[cinder relic]

Probably

[vivid vessel]

its like the leather head or whatever

[cinder relic]

Theres a few similar ones but yeah

Likely more inspired by the upcoming tier set

[mighty pivot]

you know the funny thing about the icon?

[vivid vessel]

what

[cinder relic]

Yeah the spell data being that is kinda funny

[vivid vessel]

is it a new or old icon

[cinder relic]

New

[random stirrup]

@vivid vessel please assist am dumb how do i log ptr dummies

[vivid vessel]

/startcombatlog

or whatever the command is

[mighty pivot]

could be that they intended to use for BtE but never did. Who knows at this point

[random stirrup]

ye its just logging random dummies people hitting next to me

[vivid vessel]

then stop combatlog

[random stirrup]

and saying my only damage is melees

[vivid vessel]

then upload

[vivid vessel]

check overkill damage

[random stirrup]

...

okay

i am stupid

[vivid vessel]

here

[random stirrup]

good to know

[cinder relic]

That's a brand new icon

[random stirrup]

[cinder relic]

because when u try and change wowhead from 11.2.0 to previous, the icon page doesn't exist

[mighty pivot]

yeah I mean it wasn't in game but they might have had it already

[cinder relic]

Now why its called "betweentheeyes" in the code who knows

U can probably write a lot of fan fiction on why this is the case

[stiff glade]

[random stirrup]

tyty mr french man

[mighty pivot]

wowhead post on that incoming

[vivid vessel]

ye

[mighty pivot]

the lore behind the icon

[vivid vessel]

i mean its obvious tho

[vivid vessel]

they wanted to update bte icon

[cinder relic]

[vivid vessel]

thats chat gpt or

[mighty pivot]

it was a rainy autumn night at blizzard HQ

[upbeat tundra]

no i drew it myself

[cinder relic]

👎

[vivid vessel]

i mean, "

• guys lets update bte icon,
• ok here, you can include it in the future
• wait guys i have this new ability with a gun i just created, i need an icon
• eh fuck off bud just take that new bte icon i made you

thoughts?

i have insidde microphones at blizz hq

[cinder relic]

What if its insight to the scrapped outlaw rework

[vivid vessel]

my fan fic is goated tho

100% accurate

[cinder relic]

Or the huge rework in midnight

[vivid vessel]

the sad part is that my first thought was that it looks cooler than the icon we got

and that makes me feel bad ..