probs top 1
#outlaw
keen belfry
red zinc
Hmhmmmgmhmmgmhmh gmmhmhmmg
vivid vessel
You know who I'm talking about right
proven ocean
i watch better call saul first
then
i watch mhmhmmmmmmmmmhmhhhmm mhmgfmmhghmmmmmmm
ok
?
zac
?
vivid vessel
Okok
proven ocean
agree
red zinc
i watch mhmhmmmmmmmmmhmhhhmm mhmgfmmhghmmmmmmm
Hmhmmmgmhmmgmhmh gmmhmhmmg
vivid vessel
red zinc
uuuuuuæaeeeeę ooooouuuuuuuœ
old stratus
Can somebody mail me a pipe bomb pls thanks, work is slow today
vivid vessel
No
red zinc
I have a code already
red zinc
Hmhmmmgmhmmgmhmh gmmhmhmmg
tender wedge
What is going on in here
fossil lintel
zeross got got?
vivid vessel
Not with your assa icon
proven ocean
zeross got got?
got got what
keen belfry
sup guys NA dps exploiter rogue here
proven ocean
u gotg banned?
nothing new
awang being annoying in party chat again
no cappi
or
?
keen belfry
new sign up note
tender wedge
Not with your assa icon
Snap haven’t changed it back since the good news
proven ocean
wtf
proven ocean
new sign up note
u know whats the difference between me and you awang
you type note
fossil lintel
need to specify "by the rogue discord"
red zinc
ur wanted ingame for keys
red zinc
im wanted irl by 50yo weirdos on grindr
fossil lintel
unless zac queues first
proven ocean
rename to zeross maybe
?
no
zac
they told me
hes a bug abuser
they dont like abug abusers
so
red zinc
Zeross if u had no score theyd invite you less
proven ocean
ye
red zinc
all the 3.2 goobers know you
proven ocean
one day i had no score
ppl came to my house irl
to invite me
in their +30 key
how about that timmy
?
thats right
exactly what i thought
keen belfry
might do keys tn
red zinc
timed psf first try
keen belfry
super lucky
i forgot how evasion works and turned around to do something during the aoe smash on 2nd mini boss
ripe ibex
@keen belfry have you been timing with econ guy
ripe ibex
are you guys playing with a cat
keen belfry
are you guys playing with a cat
axtin
vapid sundial
I gotta start stroking peoples’ egos
Stroke this
plucky chasm
Wazup boysss
proven ocean
Wazup boysss
whats up random ass guy
rapid lion
how do you know so much about his preferences already
proven ocean
well
if u dont prefer ass
u got a problem no cap
without ass the world will never heal
man
i love ass
(assa rogue)
cyan panther
anybody know the cap of new KS
gaunt phoenix
It's single target hits that flurry
cyan panther
im asking if theres a soft cap or uncapped and if its soft what it is to be more specific
low sinew
It's a single hit that changes targets every hit
cyan panther
rly?
tender wedge
Same as it ever was
cyan panther
interesting i was hoping they would make it be able to just hit around you
tender wedge
Well it does hit one target around you, and that’ll flurry to targets around you so
gaunt phoenix
could be neat
tender wedge
Sort of?
cyan panther
yeah i understand now, the wording of it made me think it was just an 8yd aoe around you
but ig that would be too nice
tender wedge
To be fair if any ability thematically needed to be uncapped it’s this lol
gaunt phoenix
It hits random targets, which is a prio damage loss, one way to fix that is to make it true aoe
midnight granite
How long is max cp ks in rework
rapid lion
0.5s per combo right
gaunt phoenix
0.5 * 10 * (1 / 1.X%) where x is haste
midnight granite
Ain't no way we channel for 3s
gaunt phoenix
If you supercharge it
tender wedge
Nah we channel for 5
cyan panther
i thought we were getting bf and this would just aoe with a soft cap of 8 or something, i was way more excited bc it sounded like we actually were getting at least some dmg not hard capped
at least it looks cool but unforch
rapid lion
blizz realized that outlaw rogues were getting dehydrated so they gave us this so we could get up and go refill our glass mid fight
tender wedge
I think this unironically lowers our APM though
Unless it’s best practise to cancel early
low sinew
blizz realized that outlaw rogues were getting dehydrated so they gave us this s...
But we we're already doing that cause we were dying after using KS anyways
gaunt phoenix
I strongly think we will just cancel it with a finisher
And they wont like that, so they will reduce duration
hallow spoke
why did they ever change it from just attack from behind to random tps
tender wedge
I agree, no way it’s best to channel that long and no way they like cancelling it
gaunt phoenix
cyan panther
the actual aesthetic of the button looks pretty good, it felt good to press, i dont mind channels if they do dmg
rapid lion
because blizzard fired its good class designers after MoP
low sinew
because blizzard fired its good class designers after MoP
Does this mean outlaw has never been well designed?
tender wedge
the actual aesthetic of the button looks pretty good, it felt good to press, i d...
The danger here is if you make it strong enough that channelling for 5 seconds is optimal then if you do need to cancel early (eg to kick) then you get overly punished
low sinew
I strongly think we will just cancel it with a finisher
And they wont like that...
I kinda wanna see them play into cancelling it with a finisher and have a talent that boosts the finisher you cancel it with
gaunt phoenix
id rather they reduce duration instead of it doing omega damage
I wouldnt mind it i think canceling it plays cool
tender wedge
I don’t disagree but I think they’d view that as unintuitive and therefore to be avoided
We’ve all seen the fists of fury journey
rapid lion
if it was built in to the rotation that'd work but yeah way too unintuitive
they don't want the average player to need to look up guides to do their rotations
abstract frost
@proven ocean my .9 thicker than yours
low sinew
I mean they already have stuff like that with evoker where finishing a charged skill at the right time is a dps boost
latent oak
ya but thats cringe gameplay
low sinew
It's cringe on evoker yeah cause you gotta figure out if this is a full charge or a no charge cast whereas cancelling a KS if it was to boost the damage of a finisher would be more of a when you get back to full combo points thing
rapid lion
if they're going that route they'd probably just switch it to a buff instead
brisk canopy
I think law design peaked in late SL and it could peak again next tier
I loved how you could play so many builds. Necrolord GSW, Kyrian dust, or BB with either of those + Venthyr
I miss Kyrian dust
strong halo
for M+ do yall s im dungeon slice of 5 targets?
gaunt phoenix
slice is fine
rotund zodiac
wary sandal
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
waxen acorn
why did they ever change it from just attack from behind to random tps
even if it was that again, it would still be a worse solution positioning/movement wise than the reworked ability
waxen acorn
It's cringe on evoker yeah cause you gotta figure out if this is a full charge o...
It's not cringe at all what is there to "figure out"?
AoE=r1 unless mobs won't live full duration
Single target=Full rank if Engulf available, R1 if not
grim spear
will fb also take ks next tier?
grim spear
brave grove
would there be a reason why i have low BTE procs?
torpid fiber
bad vibes
brave grove
reeee
sudden fulcrum
failed the vibe check 
hallow spoke
even if it was that again, it would still be a worse solution positioning/moveme...
kinda new to retail, but I enjoyed at least knowing where I would be rather than flipping a coin if i'll land in a swirly on a tick or not
unless there's logic to where u are TPing, it just feels random to me
craggy barn
it is mostly random
i think its set locations around most mobs based on their facing direction
at least thats how it can feel sometimes, but it also feels pretty ranodm
some mobs have it forced behind them
like gally
hallow spoke
also, I asked before but do we know if KS procs flourish?
in wotlk it would give energy back from OH attacks
waxen acorn
unless there's logic to where u are TPing, it just feels random to me
probably completely random, hence why I'm saying the rework is still a better solution because now it's just a channel that doesn't force move you and you can still move and use some movement abilities
if we got the "just TP behind the enemy" back gg enjoy dying on Big MOMMA because the tank put her on the edge of the puddle
hallow spoke
depending on the size of the swirly, im pretty sure i'd rather just be attached to the mobs ass. assuming it's not pug life 99% of the time
waxen acorn
I would rather not be attached to the mob at all
complete control of your positioning is 110% better
waxen acorn
parry only exists in raid
hallow spoke
ah ok makes sense
torpid fiber
iirc it has in the past existed for some M+ bosses
but in general it's only a thing in raid
waxen acorn
iirc it has in the past existed for some M+ bosses
hasn't existed in M+ in several expansions
torpid fiber
i would have sworn there was an SL boss that parried
waxen acorn
not that I'm aware of
lime lake
there are some m+ bosses that have parried, mainly those that are seemingly coded as raid bosses
iridikron being the notable example from df
waxen acorn
parry only exists on things 3+ levels above you
lime lake
i cant remember off the top of my head if sl had one but i wouldnt be surprised
and iridikron was one of them
in doti, he could absolutely parry you
waxen acorn
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Either way that's the exception and not the rule
in general though they just need to get rid of parry, it doesn't need to exist in modern wow
waxen acorn
but it has existed
probably because blizz too lazy to create a "dungeon" version of a "raid" boss
waxen acorn
ironically didn't exist on Rashanan despite being a raid boss
although rashanan was also probably coded not to parry if I had to guess because always in front no matter what in the raid
lime lake
bosses like that normally cant parry yeah (from what ive been told)
hopefully they just learn their lesson and remove parry entirely
waxen acorn
agreed
lime lake
but its blizzard so once they realize its an issue it'll take them a decade to actually do it
fossil lintel
Imagine how troll it would be if rash could parry
waxen acorn
too many factors exist with boss movements and mechanics for parry to still exist
fossil lintel
Insta bench all melees
lime lake
funnily enough
ebon reef
Are the rumors of a teleportless kspree true
torpid fiber
yes
ebon reef
Well that's sad
torpid fiber
its cool now, we shoot a gun really fast
north cargo
Nessa being one of em but outlaw is genuinely better off with a button that kills them or their group
signal ingot
hey, quick question. Is there a details version for ptr? or not out yet?
hybrid hemlock
wintry solar
The new KS animation is so corny
frail veldt
Does someone have a video of it?
craggy barn
its in that instagram post
wintry solar
It's pinned as well
frank finch
frail veldt
You like just dying randomly
Ah
You can do that still
Just close your eyes randomly while playing
Same effect
Or even better just spam jump so you randomly step in bad
There's lots of ways to replicate that if you enjoy it
quiet holly
you just dont press if its gonna kill you
quiet holly
prolly something like that llol
unkempt cypress
Kiddin me
unkempt cypress
Gotta be
frail veldt
you just dont press if its gonna kill you
So in general people don't like having to hold their rotational buttons to avoid them being killed constantly
quiet holly
lol
frail veldt
Pretty objectively bad gameplay
But again if you like that aspect you can replicate it yourself
Can probably find a way to randomly mix up your wasd buttons
So your character runs the wrong way 50/50
Since you enjoy that style of gameplay
And you can just remember to "not move" when it'll kill you 🙂
quiet holly
really just fits the gambling theme i love so much'
quiet holly
would it be too strong if they just made it give 100% avoidance or something?
i really like the teleporting part, but i can see how people would have issues with that
torpid fiber
Other issue with it is accessibility concerns
quiet holly
yeah, doesnt affect me personally, but i can see that being an issue
torpid fiber
but yeah, they presumably decided that giving full invuln during it was just not something they wanted to do
quiet holly
maybe invuln and lock camera in the spot you started
id much rather them do that than change the ability completely
torpid fiber
I'm personally a big fan of the new flavour but I do get it
wintry solar
you play outlaw
tf you expect?
???
this dude shocked outlaw has bugs
the ks bug is a feature
teal garnet
stacking op
red zinc
I mean its just about the pulls being ideal for pugging this dungeon
Without nutty comms the only thing you really miss out on is the pull after first boss
But ranged comps cant pull much bigger than us outside of that unless they comm properly, and they suck at those target counts
Having 2min left on a 19 with a windwalker monk doing 5m overall is definitely something
vivid vessel
I mean its just about the pulls being ideal for pugging this dungeon
Im sorry what
I think you misunderstand the dungeon
The casters are around 4/5 times more efficient than normal mobs
The ideal route is a route with 5 caster per pack
strong cargo
I still have hope they lower the amount of casters in the dungeon for s3 🙏
red zinc
The ideal route is a route with 5 caster per pack
ye but even caster comps dont pull that many
vivid vessel
Or make the shield the guy only
strong cargo
And make the shield a timer...
vivid vessel
ye but even caster comps dont pull that many
They pull way more than we do
Their route is way better than what we can do
vivid vessel
I mean ye
red zinc
are playing 2 pack pulls at the start of dungeon
And depleting on time
Thats all I mean
or not the very start but like
After first pull
we actually played that triple caster pack pull at the start (with 1 sharpshooter pack)
Prot warr op for that (dog on the rest of the dungeon)
vivid vessel
we actually played that triple caster pack pull at the start (with 1 sharpshoote...
We don't
Pretty impossible
red zinc
i mean yeah I said it was cooked when they suggested it
But we did it no problem, too many aoe stops
prisma vapor
What would you all recommend for level 15–18 keys? Killing Spree keeps getting me killed. Should I just save it for low-combat-pressure moments, or avoid using it during specific mechanics altogether? I know it’s finally getting reworked, but I’d love some advice in the meantime.
Can we fully neglect it or what is the damage loss in %
red zinc
You cannot neglect it
just a gameplay experience thing
You’ll figure out when to press it by playing
low cp ks is fine sometimes but definitely wouldnt do it always, only when there isnt any other choice
vivid vessel
But we did it no problem, too many aoe stops
Idk one kick goes off and we die so
red zinc
think we only missed 1
But
19 so people dont die
kinda a net neutral route though cause you barely have anything to pull on second miniboss
waxen acorn
id much rather them do that than change the ability completely
So you’d just rather have a worse ability? Lol
civic zephyr
Is HO or KIR better for new rogues? I am still leveling (72) but I like getting used to the buttons etc from the get go.
craggy barn
ho is better for new rogues
weary fog
DH too
craggy barn
looking at rio timed keys representation, its funny fire and frost mage are allowed
ebon reef
I'm gonna miss the teleporting killing spree tbh
ebon reef
ho is better for new rogues
Isn't HO better in general than kir
wintry solar
It had its place but its for the better it leaves
ebon reef
It had its place but its for the better it leaves
Wasn't usable in some places but it was cool
wintry solar
frankly it being a pvp talent at least would be fine
ebon reef
Except everyone else thinks Its one button less I can wipe the raid with
wintry solar
since there and delves were the only places it wouldnt kill you
wintry solar
ebon reef
Petition to not change killing spree
craggy barn
Isn't HO better in general than kir
no
theyre equivalent in most contexts
KIR pulls slightly ahead in large aoe situations
but the standard kir build this season is much more difficult than HO
ebon reef
Is there a case where you wouldn't use kir after rtb and vanish window
Like if you get one buff
craggy barn
? u only KIR when u have 4+ buffs
fallen knot
yes if you dont have 4+ buffs or 3buffs that are broadside cdr and crit damage
craggy barn
i guess those 3 as well, but general rule of thumb with kir is 4+
fallen knot
i mean you rtb 1 buff, vanish window cto 2 buffs now you have 3
but it's not those 3
you dont kir
fading hatch
Anyone else playing the whistle trinket and their group constantly complain about the animation
Why can they even see it
ebon reef
What's even the animation like
ebon reef
? u only KIR when u have 4+ buffs
I thought it's 2/3 ngl
fading hatch
Surprisingly large cart drives into mob
vale warren
I get jumpscared by it sometimes
craggy barn
i was using it in season one week one and it was always funny hearing the surprise from my guildies when it pops in
mighty pivot
the reactions you get is the reason whistle is bis
bright lodge
Petition to not change killing spree
You go, girl! Finally the one who gets me. It is our only flashy spell and it’s changing to half cone pistol shots. I’d accept it if it was literally Reaper ult
pseudo vale
With new killing spree changes are we thinking we will be playing different type of build or will it still be about the same
mighty pivot
new KS is not a cone
fallen knot
is there a way to count targets around your target with a wa and not my eyes?
not around me
around my target
mighty pivot
pretty sure that information is restricted
tulip quarry
Zac have a WA which count target in range
mighty pivot
that's around you not the target
stiff hawk
You go, girl! Finally the one who gets me. It is our only flashy spell and it’s ...
Everyone would be OK to be it like Blade dance
fallen knot
that tells me there's x mobs around that target
stiff hawk
but nobody likes it actively killing you
mighty pivot
the only reason you can get information about mobs around you is that it range checks using your abilities. The same technique isn't useful for ranged abilities
craggy barn
its not even that flashy until something is targeting u
polar niche
Any tips as outlaw?
craggy barn
read the simplified faq
polar niche
On wowhead they said fatebound
craggy barn
fatebound is easier but mostly only good for pure single target encounters
but what content are u looking for
polar niche
I’m at mug zee mythic
craggy barn
ah
then yea fb makes it less scuffed
dont gotta hold ks too much
if u dont talent it lol
polar niche
For progress better fb?
stiff hawk
then yea fb makes it less scuffed
You lose ST dmg
because of Helicopter and Mine arent you?
stiff hawk
Honest suggestions
craggy barn
and ts can fuck u up
polar niche
Can’t play beta spec
polar niche
Happenz
stiff hawk
Being in Jail is cursed
craggy barn
idk law is pretty much beta cuck spec on mugzee
polar niche
Why can’t ks?
craggy barn
ur giga cucked as law
u hold it a fuck ton
u cant do it when mines are out
u cant do it when waiting for frost boots
stiff hawk
I would almost go as far, as saying its grief to play it
craggy barn
u cant do it when transitioning sides
polar niche
Second one on logs cast it 18 Times
craggy barn
theres A LOT ur forced to hold for
polar niche
First one 19
stiff hawk
Second one on logs cast it 18 Times
Thats prolly a reclear log
not a prog log
Huge difference
stiff hawk
you literally only need 2 Daggers and on use trinket
craggy barn
i mean u can just prog as law and jave ur RL scream at u
stiff hawk
Stats are whatever
stiff hawk
its joever when Zac says that
craggy barn
ull see when u actually do the fight
like i killed it as sin and dont wanna reclear as law
its super cursed knowing how the fight goes
ill probably try for a pull for the lols
when we start reclears
warm remnant
does new ks interact the same way with blade flurry active?
craggy barn
it doesnt change with bf active
the damage just flurries as normal
the animation doesnt change
warm remnant
so it just applies fazed without any issues?
stiff hawk
3% haste on outlaw is horrible
I meant for Sin
warm remnant
oh well
stiff hawk
If you ahve 2 Dagger and an On Use you are good to go for Sin
polar niche
✅
For belt, from tomorrow, i have the crafted one , i should remove the 691 or keep it?
craggy barn
sim it
stiff hawk
Thats literally a sim it call
vivid vessel
around my target
not possible in wow
civic zephyr
Are there any youtubers with good guides? I prefer watching to reading.
mighty pivot
dunno if there is a good youtube guide on outlaw, but I did find this:
brisk meadow
the best guide is for outlaw is in the #outlaw-faq and after that you just analyze what other good outlaw do in m+
and with that
@vivid vessel i demand a video or timestamp of vod from a workshop
i get a fking heartattack each time im at that 3rd boss
brisk meadow
feels like i need to be able to see the future
fathom carbon
Earlier this season when i played Outlaw, HO was the go to. Is KiR really far ahead at the moment since most seems to be using it?
brisk meadow
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fathom carbon
So, based on that spreadsheet HO is stronger?
civic zephyr
the best guide is for outlaw is in the <#856897810536071208> and after that you ...
Oh yeah, already looked there. Thank you.
brisk meadow
So, based on that spreadsheet HO is stronger?
only in pure single target with trickster but you dont have that anywhere this content
fathom carbon
So for M+ content, how big would the difference be there?
We talking 1-2% or bigger?
gaunt phoenix
HO vs KIR is not 10%, that's more like trickster vs fatebound
brisk meadow
depends on dungeon
oh
i thought in like cinderbrew
it was way bigger
sry my bad then
Casually spreading misinformation
gaunt phoenix
kir is a bit better at big pulls but ho is a bit favored on bosses/lower cleave, overall i don't think they should be too different
fathom carbon
What i'm thinking is, if i'm only dropping 1-2% of my dps going HO instead of KiR, but having way more fun in my +12-14 keys. All good right?
But if it's a ''free 5-10%'' dps gain to go KiR, it would be kinda greif to stay HO
So based on what you said @gaunt phoenix, i should be fine staying HO ?
red zinc
its not that much dps
just play ho if you prefer that
People that play kir become incapable of playing ho so we all think kir is magnitudes better
its a weird phenomenom
gaunt phoenix
fathom carbon
I tried KiR because the Archon website suggested 70%+ of top rogues play it.
But i dunno, sugerpill effect or whatever, it just feels slow? Like i'm waiting for a 20-30% longer global CD
brisk meadow
hitting kir while the last global triggers cto and get's the 6th buff on a natural 5 roll is a big dopamine hit i cant miss out on
gaunt phoenix
I tried KiR because the Archon website suggested 70%+ of top rogues play it.
But...
you need 19% haste to play it
or the gcd is literally longer
fathom carbon
I'll log on and check what i got
gaunt phoenix
but yeah, HO was popular and then KIR took over bc of zac
nothing changed too much numbers wise
brisk meadow
Zac and solo single handedly saving outlaw population
red zinc
Did you ever do aoe variance stuff for the two builds solo
fathom carbon
Mind you, i got about the same dps from my few runs earlier this reset. But outlaw rng is a thing so yh, felt i had to ask about HO vs KiR. Ty for the insight so far 🙂
red zinc
Feel like ho variance would be the only diffy
fathom carbon
My rouge, running same gear in KiR/Ho, sits around 21% haste (13.7k rating) atm.
gaunt phoenix
kir should be more consistent in aoe
red zinc
ye thats why I stopped playing ho back in s3
And i think variance is worse now without that tier set
brisk meadow
the best part of ho was the multiple ambush bug or w/e
felt like you are a burst class
fathom carbon
So. HO can get 1.3% ish more ST on paper, while KiR should be more stable aoe is what i'm summarising this as?
Rest is prefference stuff ?
red zinc
yer
fathom carbon
!haste
ornate heathBOT
A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.
*But Haste has a **requirement ** because 
Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.
The 
KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after 
Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.
The 
HO build gets 
Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.
You need to use 
Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.
fathom carbon
Why would i be bullied ^^ ?
Well, since i'm at 20.8% haste, might aswell practise some KiR. Season 1 flashbacks and what not
wintry solar
Why would i be bullied ^^ ?
People like to think their way of playing is the only correct one, so there's this weird HO vs KIR thing going on.
fathom carbon
I see 🙂
wintry solar
Be the better person and join the elite few that play both HO and KiR
torpid fiber
do people feel that way? It's been like 6 seasons I think at this point most people have just accepted it
wintry solar
Accepted what
red zinc
do people feel that way? It's been like 6 seasons I think at this point most peo...
In reality I don’t care
but I will harass the ho players in jest
wintry solar
Yeah it's def a meme for most but there's a few that are very staunch fsr
Like
Redditors and combat rogue
It's 2025, get over it.
edgy phoenix
kir propaganda 
mighty pivot
KIR players with their "ambush did 9/11" conspiracies 
jolly geyser
Kir and ho removed in midnight
agile orchid
if I could play KiR with HO, I would
stiff hawk
Hokir
mighty pivot
you can pick both by griefing yourself
jolly geyser
I like ho,less hassle for me
agile orchid
I tried playing HO but I was extremely unlucky with rolls
prisma pelican
Hi guys, when am i supposed to use vanish ?
hallow spoke
whats even the real difference outside of longer buffs
covert kestrel
vivid vessel
Kir has deft
covert kestrel
Hi guys, when am i supposed to use vanish ?
vivid vessel
Kir does not overcap cps the way ho does
Kir have real builders rules that matters, especially around fan the hammer
hallow spoke
Was actually gna ask why HO plays swift over deft
covert kestrel
Cause ho shits out combo points anyway
mighty pivot
ambush is mucho combo points
gaunt phoenix
deft takes away from ambush dmg
hallow spoke
surely there's a target amount where that isn't the case tho
crimson thicket
That's what I tell my girl
proper berry
Just spam bte as much as possible
stiff hawk
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179317743749697538/1306460422622281799/9...
You are so right for this
ivory ember
That's what I tell my girl
😄
stiff hawk
That's what I tell my girl
Also that rolls only last 45 Seconds
crimson thicket
She gets one roll and there ain't no keep it rollin
cedar kernel
drifting bramble
Maybe we prog next tier as sub
Why that ?
vivid vessel
deft takes away from ambush dmg
I mean it also doesn't need the cp gen as much if at all
hallow spoke
btw, what trinkets u aim for as KIR with chips
mighty pivot
btw, what trinkets u aim for as KIR with chips
kir or ho doesn't matter for trinkets
and trinkets don't matter much
hallow spoke
cool so pacemaker and whatever will be fine
red zinc
id get pacemaker and magnet if thats an option
magnet is a great on use trinket that doesnt bug out
hallow spoke
ive got a heroic zee's if that's fine?
red zinc
wym zee's
red zinc
weapon or trinket
hallow spoke
trinket
red zinc
depends how hard you're committing to the outlaw degeneracy
that trinket is already pretty poor for cleave but
if you're using cudgel then its unusable since it makes it so that weapon doesnt work
red zinc
the thugs keep you in combat
so vanish doesnt reset the proc, which is what most of the damage from that weapon stems from
friend that played with those thugs did like 0.4% damage with shadow quake was a bit of a disaster
shameless
proper berry
id get pacemaker and magnet if thats an option
Magnet over gear grinder ?
red zinc
for m+ yes
more prio damage and doesnt bug on some bosses
or miss
probably sims 0.1% worse or something but when you realize most of that geargrinder damage is going to small mobs that die anyway its really not worth the boss bugs
strong cargo
probably sims 0.1% worse or something but when you realize most of that geargrin...
Is there any out of rookery ?
red zinc
boss bugs you mean?
strong cargo
Yeah
red zinc
first boss whenever he's in the middle which is logical
strong cargo
I usually just replace geargrinder in rookery
red zinc
but last boss doesnt take any damage from bike
oh wait
uh yeah theres a few
motherlode last boss
workshop last boss
novel socket
do we still use cudgel if we have mugzee weapon on m+ ?
i think i remember reading here that mugzee weapon is better
red zinc
pins describe it the best i think
you use capo for bosses exclusively when its hc ilvl
and as a mainhand when its mythic ilvl
cudgel for aoe always no matter what ilvl capo you have
strong cargo
OK thx, didn't know about them, i guess i'll never play it then
red zinc
feel like im missing one but
not off top of my head
dfc first boss its effectively useless i guess
since it splits on piss adds
strong cargo
I just send it when adds are dead/away ye
But ye i guess pacemaker will be fine, another on use felt good on some dmg amp bosses/st mobs
proven ocean
Fuck
tribal swan
id get pacemaker and magnet if thats an option
do we send magnet on CD?
red zinc
do we send magnet on CD?
unless theres a damage amp incoming yes
hallow spoke
the thugs keep you in combat
so this stops smeld from giving stealths too?
gaunt phoenix
im not sure
hallow spoke
im pretty sure I've been scratching my head sometimes not getting a stealth
and this genuinely is prob why
gaunt phoenix
well smeld into stealth has always been a bit fucked up
kind otter
!prekey
ornate heathBOT
Pre-key fuckery
- RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
- DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
- After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
- Before entering the first pack
BF into 
Stealth. - Open on pack with AR into BtE.
sonic bluff
So we are not using DISC for now and waiting for next week, am I right?
sonic bluff
Just never use it
It will become higher ilvl than Mythic 8/8 soon enough. So more main stat. And maybe some fixes with ability 😅
mighty pivot
it's already higher ilvl
sonic bluff
Well yeah, I meant like much higher 🙂 as high as it become noticeable and higher main stat outperforms loss of secondaries
gaunt phoenix
it seems even at 701, with our remaining possible effects, the belt is only marginal compared to a mythic belt
stiff hawk
That is so cursed
warm remnant
does evasion work on the winds in 2nd boss dfc?
sick monolith
If your talented into elusiveness
vivid vessel
it seems even at 701, with our remaining possible effects, the belt is only marg...
What I don't understand tho
It's still +15 illvl
On stats
Technically
Like if the proc is tuned to be the same as stats
How is it not better
stiff hawk
Becasue its a proc
gaunt phoenix
suppose the procs are not the same or just barely ahead
stiff hawk
and Outlaw likes constant stats more?
dim ember
What's this bug about killing spree killing you?
vivid vessel
and Outlaw likes constant stats more?
do we ?
i dont think it matters
its rng
that would be true if it was controllable
stiff hawk
What's this bug about killing spree killing you?
Its not a bug
vivid vessel
then it would be tuned less since cd specs
dim ember
Ahhh okay
thought you just exploded
It's okay then I am used with WDP on Monk keeping me stuck in animation for a second and a half
glass mortar
it is far far worse then wdp but same vibe yea
dim ember
God it doesn't have dots to keep track of AND doesn't have a stupidly short cooldown window to squeeze every single spell in the kit into?
glass mortar
oh i mean crackshot windows play out like a cd window where ur trying to squeeze all 8 gcds in everytime
it just doesnt have the raw damage payoff of a cd window
and also u do it like every 20s the whole fight
vivid vessel
God it doesn't have dots to keep track of AND doesn't have a stupidly short cool...
but
glass mortar
its very much like playing the most challenging parts of most specs cd windows for large periods of the fight
vivid vessel
ww doesnt have either of these iether tho
glass mortar
rather then not having any cds
torpid fiber
tbf crackshot windows do have the advantage that you only break stealth on the first gcd so you don't have to worry as much about timing vanish as late into the gcd as possible outside of minmaxing for auto attacks afaik
dim ember
I'm trying to find alts to play for when blizzard decides monk ww is useless and I am forced to freeze cause I am not willing to try anything else
vivid vessel
tbf crackshot windows do have the advantage that you only break stealth on the f...
unless you have a /startattack in your macro 
torpid fiber
true!!
dim ember
ww doesnt have either of these iether tho
depends what you play, but yea
torpid fiber
that's real gaming hours
vivid vessel
depends what you play, but yea
does it
dim ember
You are correct, and I am playing the hero tree that doesn't have the stupid cooldown window
vivid vessel
but even the stupid cd window its just
you need to press fist during it
and have your cds on cds
thats about it really no ?
you dont have to fits everything inside it
just a fof
glass mortar
u wanna get 2-3 fists in it but its not generally hard to fit
vivid vessel
and have ytour other cds on cd
vivid vessel
u wanna get 2-3 fists in it but its not generally hard to fit
2/3?
you cant do that lol
glass mortar
2 to 3
dim ember
yea it's just much more dependant on timing and being able to execute it efficiently, it overwhelms me when I think that in shado-pan I can just keep being consistent and my damage wil be good
glass mortar
depends on ur procs n haste
vivid vessel
unless we arent talking on the same thing
vivid vessel
I'm washed up
glass mortar
3 might only generally be with lust tho idk
vivid vessel
No way I ever fit more than 1 idk
glass mortar
i havent played ww in a few weeks and its not my main
glass mortar
???
vivid vessel
Idk
glass mortar
on st??
dim ember
you have to fit more than one yea
glass mortar
r u just playing the dungeon build on every fight
glass mortar
if u r u probably dont have the cd extension talent
vivid vessel
Maybe
proven ocean
@vivid vessel
vivid vessel
No
glass mortar
so u wont get more then 1
proven ocean
today
vivid vessel
I'm playing the wcl top build basically
glass mortar
actually think u still get 2 either way
vivid vessel
On every fight
proven ocean
I'm playing the wcl top build basically
copier
dim ember
It isn't THAT bad honestly, so zac is correct but I just do not vibe with it, I like being precise and consistent and not stressing about what I'm gonna do the next conduit press
proven ocean
u know what else isnt bad
unequipping ur trinkets
im sure u wont feel it
give it a try
dim ember
ur assuming I ever dropped any trinket in this game
proven ocean
nono
try it
because you don't seem like u feel ur dmg well enough
if u dont notice the dps difference of trinkets + no trinket equipped
idk what to tell you
dim ember
I am choosing not to understand what you're trying to tell me
proven ocean
I am choosing to not give a fuck
glass mortar
uhhh
proven ocean
<@185854083964469249>
zac
this is an outlaw channel
not monk
plz
keep it out of here
cuz
its not even the monk discord
glass mortar
<@185854083964469249>
down left from the major cd i think
idr
it might be a choice node
torpid fiber
I am choosing not to understand what you're trying to tell me
Smart approach to zeross at first tbh
proven ocean
<@185854083964469249>
@fluid iron hes linking monk stuff
plz ban
when i link assa in outlaw he ping every shadow in the discord !
monk no ping?!?!?!
ban !
torpid fiber
Well yeah you don't see a #windwalker channel, do you?
where else would it go smh
glass mortar
...? yes thats ur major cd
vivid vessel
i tought you guys were talking about this
glass mortar
?????
we said fists for monk
and u assumed
some nonsense ass bozo looking talent
and not FoF???????????????
proven ocean
torpid fiber
(stupidly short) (cooldown window) I read it as
vivid vessel
where you wanna fit fof
glass mortar
stupidly short cooldown window as in the cooldown window is not very long
vivid vessel
at least 1
glass mortar
not the cooldown of the cooldown window is not very long
proven ocean
glass mortar
it lasts awhile idk if id say its stupidly long even with extension
proven ocean
zac
glass mortar
but yea it can be tight fitting 2-3 fists into a non extendo one
proven ocean
now that KS is longer
outlaw is alot easier
its like a long ass break to press that shit
u can go get some coffee
vivid vessel
its way too long
proven ocean
idk fuck a dog or someshit
then KS will be back again
will be finished*
no its not too long
i like it the way it is ngl
im glad he made it longer (no movement bullshit)
the slow in "rp and integrity" makes sense
glass mortar
i like the core design of the ability, just want it faster again
or to cast it way less often
but i dont see them fixing trickster enough if they do that
proven ocean
sure make it double the cd
glass mortar
so id just prefer its same length as live ks if not shorter
proven ocean
idm
i think KS deserves to have double cd
longer
so instead of 1.4min
make it a 3 min cd
but wait
that messes things up
it fucks up trickster gameplay so
glass mortar
yes
proven ocean
@gloomy coral can we ban zac
hes talking windwalker stuff
no cap
fuck ww monks or?
@vivid vessel btw i heard ww is op
glass mortar
why r y pinging mods for memes first thing in the morning for NA people
proven ocean
in ptr
glass mortar
hell if any of them r west coast they r still asleep
torpid fiber
Imagine being a mod and getting pinged and worrying it's something that matters and then it's just zeross
gloomy coral
Dawg
glass mortar
they have good scaling and really good st on live so i dont see why they wouldnt be good
glass mortar
their target scaling is still somehow even worse then outlaws tho which is funny
gloomy coral
Why are you tempting fate like this
proven ocean
https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1379273688616013984.webp?size=96&animated=true
why is this gif not working
!?
gloomy coral
My reflex was going to time you out for the as long as you asked to time out zac
gloomy coral
I flipped a coin. You are lucky this time.
gloomy coral
Dont ping me again for dumb shit
stiff hawk
Zeross testing Koffing
slim maple
are we going to have a mexican standoff at high noon?
proven ocean
route
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194>
We aren't that far behind tbf
I have a new route that will let us do one less pack
copper radish
patiently waiting for vault... upgrade week or wait another week lol
vivid vessel
And we timed it 30s under with 5 deaths
With a bad run so
I think we are around that timer aswell
red zinc
22 cinder when
vivid vessel
They have resi 21 so it's a bit different for us you know
I think out potential is around that as well
proven ocean
We aren't that far behind tbf
thats some hyper copium
vivid vessel
No?
vivid vessel
Yes but we lost 1min 30 from deaths alone
And we can remove one pack in our new route
proven ocean
i dont think that matters because they had 2 deaths aswell
vivid vessel
And we can also just play better since it was the first time we timed it
vivid vessel
i dont think that matters because they had 2 deaths aswell
Our feral died first pack on pull so
Idk
I don't think we are far behind
proven ocean
Our feral died first pack on pull so
i dont think thats how u should be taking it tho sounds like an excuse
because i think their timer is impressive
vivid vessel
I'm not saying it's not
proven ocean
not anyone can do it imo
vivid vessel
You are saying their comp allows them to do it
I'm saying we can do similar
Without meta comp
Our comp is very good in cinder
But I told you that numerous times already
vivid vessel
So our 5 deaths are not enough but their 2 deaths are worth 2 whole minutes ?
That's some crazy guzzling
If their 2 deaths are worth 2 whole minute surely our 5 deaths are worth almost 6 with that same logic
We are about to destroy that timer per Ross calculations
Holy shmoly
late swallow
https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1379273688616013984.webp?size=96&animated=true
Holy
Absolute banger new gif
dense bolt
So our 5 deaths are not enough but their 2 deaths are worth 2 whole minutes ?
when ptr stream
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194>
also they did it with the raid buff snice its this week
tahts 3 % group damage basically
jovial dome
I’m just getting back into Outlaw…do we still spread BTE during AOE pulls for the debuff?
vivid vessel
its a buff
vivid vessel
also we never did that ever
glass mortar
yea im not aware of that being a thing
there wouldnt be any point since BF cant crit
vivid vessel
bf doesnt crit
jovial dome
I thought it was a thing during DF. Must have misunderstood
stiff glade
That would be kinda funny actually. Imagine swapping targets for every BtE in crackshot to set up a big trinket 
Sounds horrible
But funny
jovial dome
Enhance does it right now for Lightning Rod.